PDA

View Full Version : Is this an acceptable encounter? [3.5}



Incompleat
2009-11-17, 05:21 AM
Hi all, long time OOTS reader here.

I am preparing my first DM campaign, and I'm trying to come up with a few interesting encounters.

The party contains three (or perhaps four) level 3 characters: the players are still working on them, I told them to use a 30 point buy, and I will let them get some slightly overpowered stuff for their level - for example, one of the players wants to make a druid, and I let her get a dire badger as an animal companion even though, by RAW, she could only get it at level 4 (yeah, I know, druids are already overpowered as they are, but none of the players seems too concerned with optimization and it makes sense for the character).

My idea for the first encounter is the following: because of a magical mishap, a summoning ooze (CR 4) appears. Summoning oozes are somewhat intelligent, and this one does not want to fight the players right now - it has no real motive to, and moreover they are in a semi-public place - so it summons a swarm of locusts (CR 3) against the players, kidnaps the sorcerer who unwittingly created it and tries to go away.

The players aren't probably going to manage to defeat the ooze (if they don't, it will become a recurring antagonist for the first part of the campaign; if they do, I have some other opponents I can use) but they should be able to hold their own against the swarm and defeat it before it hurts anyone else (by the way, there is also going to be plenty of food around during the encounter, and the swarm will be a bit distracted by it).

Then cue mission to save the mage from the ooze.

I never DMed before: does this look like an entertaining enough encounter? Going by CR, the swarm should give the players a difficult but doable battle, but swarms can be tricky...

Thanks!

Temet Nosce
2009-11-17, 05:26 AM
You kind of forgot to include the encounter you were asking about.

IonDragon
2009-11-17, 05:27 AM
Sounds perfectly balanced to me.

Anyone else find humor in the fact that his name is Incomplete, as was his post?

Incompleat
2009-11-17, 05:36 AM
You kind of forgot to include the encounter you were asking about.

Yeah, I clicked "Submit" instead of "Preview" by error - I added the description of the encounter now.

Waylor
2009-11-17, 05:45 AM
it depends on the party strengths/weakness, a druid/twohanded-fighter/warmage will probably blast the ooze, while a druid/rogue/two-weapons-fighter may have a hard time.

If you find the encounter is to high/low, modify the creature while they are fighting, like the sorc buffing it or a pnj joining to debuff or blast it a bit (just enough to help, dont finish the fight).

Grumman
2009-11-17, 05:47 AM
I'd make sure that everyone can actually contribute against the swarm, or else there's no reason why they shouldn't all just attack the ooze. At the least, there should be torches or lanterns lighting the area that they can use as improvised weapons.

Temet Nosce
2009-11-17, 06:15 AM
I'd say it's good that you're keeping in mind they may kill the ooze anyways (since honestly, I'd give them a better than even chance of managing to do so assuming they aren't new).

Also, the swarm may actually be a worse (possibly much worse) problem than the ooze due to the immunity to weapon damage (and that the easiest way to get rid of it is AoE damage... to a creature which would be occupying the same square as whoever it's damaging).

Assuming your players are have played before (and are familiar with swarms) you should be ok, but I might give swarm a pass otherwise.

Incompleat
2009-11-17, 06:18 AM
IonDragon: I do :smallsmile:

Yeah, until I know more about the party I cannot be really sure that the encounter is doable, I mostly wanted to ask if the concept sounded reasonable at all.

The idea is to present the players with a choice: they can stop the swarm before it makes too much damage, but then later they will have to go after the ooze, or they can immediately attack the ooze.
In the second case they get an harder (but still not impossible) encounter, and they will be partly blamed for the destruction the swarm will cause (they are inside a city, and there are plenty of commoners around), which will trigger a few other adventure hooks.

Good point about the swarm: maybe I should choose a different monster, one which is not invulnerable to weapon damage.
I will have a look later at possible alternatives: do you have any suggestions for nasty, non-intelligent CR 3 monsters with a penchant for going after random passer-bys and for property damage?

IonDragon
2009-11-17, 06:21 AM
I have just one question. How does an ooze kidnap someone? I'm not familiar with these type of ooze, but what I do know is most oozes cause damage on contact.

Just curious :smallbiggrin:

Temet Nosce
2009-11-17, 06:42 AM
Good point about the swarm: maybe I should choose a different monster, one which is not invulnerable to weapon damage.
I will have a look later at possible alternatives: do you have any suggestions for nasty, non-intelligent CR 3 monsters with a penchant for going after random passer-bys and for property damage?

Phoera? It has no real tendency to go after random people but one of its defenses is to set everything around it on fire which could certainly cause property damage. Bonuses for burning anyone who touches it, flyby attack, and making the PCs decide what to do with the egg from which it might be reborn.

Incompleat
2009-11-17, 06:43 AM
It is an intelligent ooze (I don't remember which MM it is in, but I think there's a preview on the WOTC site too) and it has tentacles, so I am going to assume it will try not to hurt his victim too much - but yeah, the sorc is in for some nasty acid burns.


The ooze wants to pull a Frankenstein's Monster, and force its creator to create some companions for it - technically it has no gender, but I am ruling it still needs to mate to reproduce (plenty of real life examples in nature).

It plans to get the sorcerer (who is quite inexperienced, and has been messing with tools way too powerful for him) to miscast spells again and again, until the same unlikely mishap that created the ooze happens again; the outcomes of the failed attempts will be the main reason why the players will have to save the sorc, and ASAP.

(Since I started talking about the backstory, I could also add that the ooze's plan is doomed: its creation is actually the deliberate result of some machinations of the real BBEG, and its lifespan is measured in months. The ooze will gradually learn all of this and become increasingly reckless in its attempts to survive/create a legacy, and could even end up relaying some important information to the players as a last ditch revenge attempt)

IonDragon
2009-11-17, 06:52 AM
That's pretty cool, and well thought out. I like it, and I think your players will too.

dsmiles
2009-11-17, 07:47 AM
Definately entertaining, maybe even humorous (if looked at in the right perspective).

Tyndmyr
2009-11-17, 10:05 AM
Swap out the swarm and you're golden. Even with the swarm, it's doable for a party with multiple casters, but I advise making the first fight a bit easier than average. Get people warmed up.

It's a decent encounter, though. Not crazy hard, but there's a possibility of escape via local sewer drains or what have you.

Incompleat
2009-11-18, 04:39 AM
Thanks for the advice!

My players have decided their characters, and it looks like we have a druid, a sorcerer, a (probably cloistered) cleric and a paladin.

(BTW, if you are reading this and you are playing in my party you probably have already recognized me, please stop reading and cast Programmed Amnesia on yourself ;-) )

I don't have access to the Phoera stats... maybe I could use a fun-sized (that is, advanced to Huge :smallamused:.) gelatinous cube?

In the first turn or so, it will engulf some NPCs, and the players will have to decide whether to go after the ooze or save the NPCs from the cube: thematically, this works better than the old idea of the locust swarm, it is nowhere as dangerous, and it should give everyone a chance to fight.

Although I worry a bit about the paladin: a melee character with a poor reflex save against a gelatinous cube is not a great combination, he could end up getting engulfed and paralyzed in the first turns.

Maybe I should give the player an enchanted crossbow, in order to give him an opportunity to fight from distance? I was thinking about the merciful enchantment (+1d6, but all damage is nonlethal) - it fits nicely with the character concept, and it's not like that it will make him more powerful than the sorcerer or the druid :smallwink:.

Temet Nosce
2009-11-18, 05:04 AM
Yeah, might want to suggest he play something other than Paladin if they're concerned at all with balance. The other classes are tier 1-2 whereas Paladin is tier 5. You might try to get him to switch over to Crusader (or at least warn him about the power differential there).

Anyways, yes you do have access to Phoera (It's in the MM3 same as the Summoning Ooze), but your idea probably works better anyways.

Incompleat
2009-11-18, 05:54 AM
I don't have my books here, I am using the Summoning Ooze description I found on the WOTC website (actually, I don't even have MM3 at home, although I could probably borrow it from some friend of mine).

The paladin's player is perhaps a bit inexperienced, and chose that class partly because "the party needs tanking".

But on the other hand, none of the players is big on optimization, and the campaign is going to be much more about investigation and exploration than about combat, so maybe the power difference is not as big as it would be in other circumstances...

The crusader idea is good, but for my first campaign I don't know if it is a good idea to let the players use mechanics I have no experience with.

Temet Nosce
2009-11-18, 06:00 AM
The paladin's player is perhaps a bit inexperienced, and chose that class partly because "the party needs tanking".

But on the other hand, none of the players is big on optimization, and the campaign is going to be much more about investigation and exploration than about combat, so maybe the power difference is not as big as it would be in other circumstances...

The crusader idea is good, but for my first campaign I don't know if it is a good idea to let the players use mechanics I have no experience with.

Yeah, if you've got the spare time I'd really suggest reading through the ToB then. Even in an unoptimized game there's going to be a pretty serious difference between a Paladin and a group of casters. It's ok if the player doesn't mind, but the difference is going to be somewhere between huge and completely different game (it might actually be better in a decent optimizers party, since there are ways to make Paladins useful).

If you haven't got the time to work over the ToB then make sure you at least talk to the Paladin beforehand and point it out so he knows what he's getting into.

Triaxx
2009-11-18, 06:10 AM
That sounds like tons of fun. I'd go ahead and have it learn later that it can spawn other types of oozes. That'd be awesome. Spawn a few then retreat.

onthetown
2009-11-18, 07:30 AM
It sounds like fun, but it sounds like you have it way too planned out. Your players aren't necessarily going to follow the format you have in your head, and if you try to force them to follow it you'll end up railroading them through your session. There's got to be a lot more variables. Maybe the players will defeat your ooze; maybe they'll decide not to go after either the ooze or the NPCs, and just not follow through with your adventure. I realize there's a Paladin and your players are probably all good and neutral, but you shouldn't count on their actions to build your session around. The ooze will appear and the swarm will be summoned and the mage will be kidnapped, but after that I would think you should simply have knowledge of "what happens if", not "this will happen when". If the players go after the ooze, if the players go after the NPCs, if the players do this and that, whatever... Not when.

Sorry, that sounds like a bit of a long-winded rant. :smallredface: I do like the idea and it sounds like a ton of fun. It's creative, especially using the ooze instead of what most people consider to be "normal" kidnapping baddies, and you have a good base to go on for when you play.

Incompleat
2009-11-18, 05:29 PM
Thanks for the advice! I like the idea of giving the ooze the power of spawning other kinds of oozes, it is much better than a mere magic-based "summoning".

Riyoukaze: Yeah, I have been thinking about that too. The fact is, I want my players to have a chance to destroy the ooze and sacrifice the NPCs, and I even want them to have a (much smaller) chance to defeat both the ooze and the cube in time, saving the NPCs and destroying Mother Ooze (yeah, my naming abilities are worse than Leonard da Quirm's. Much worse. You should see the provisional names I am giving to my NPCs! Although I think that "Xanatos McAcidpants" is not all bad...).

I have ideas about what happens in both cases, and also for the (more remote, I think, and probably more boring for them) possibility that they try to find a way to alert the authorities instead of plunging into the battle themselves.

But apart from that, what should I prepare? I have a couple of other baddies with could decide to mess with the characters sooner or later and there are a handful of locations and important NPCs I am preparing, but if they decide to look for an exotic fruit shop then I will have to improvise :smallwink:

If they want to get out of the city, there are a few other locations I have in mind, but that's about it - I am trying to come up with something more, but for the moment the space out of the city is still quite featureless.

And of course, there always are random encounters if I need time to decide what happens next.... :smallamused:

sdream
2009-11-18, 07:08 PM
Why not just have them fight the ooze, which spawns other oozes, and when a certain amount of damage is done to the main ooze it flees by becoming incorporeal and sinking through the ground (with the sorcerer inside it, or it could track him down later).

Thus you needn't try to preserve the ooze for plot by fudging any rolls.

Another_Poet
2009-11-18, 07:21 PM
The swarm encounter is balanced and sounds like a great opener.

Do expect the PCs to destroy the summoning ooze though. If there are four of them they will probably manage to destroy a CR 4 encounter - and they are likely to go after the ooze first, instead of, or in addition to the swarm.

If there are only 3 of them it is less likely they will take down the ooze. But either have its escape plan ready to go or be prepared to deal with it dying.

Sounds fun!

ap