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AtwasAwamps
2009-11-19, 11:30 AM
One of my players is going to play a drow in my upcoming 3.5 game and I had a bunch of questions that I havenít been able to find the answers to in my books or on the d20srd hyperlink version.

Drow, by default, is +2 LA. If she played the default drow and the game starts at level 3, that means she would have a level one character with a level 3 ECL. Does she get two racial hit die, or is she stuck with the one for her class level and thatís it?

I believe there is an LA 0 Drow in the Playerís Guide to Faerun. Is this a viable race option for someone wanting to play a drow for fluff reasons?

The above question, applied to the d20r Drow I found somewhere on this forum?

Finally, would dropping spell resistance, one of the plusses, and limiting her to only one of a drow spell-likes reduce the race to LA +1?

Note that LA buyoff is in effect.

Gamerlord
2009-11-19, 11:33 AM
Aren't they LA +1?

Boci
2009-11-19, 11:34 AM
Drow, by default, is +2 LA. If she played the default drow and the game starts at level 3, that means she would have a level one character with a level 3 ECL. Does she get two racial hit die, or is she stuck with the one for her class level and thatís it?

No she does not gain racial hit die, just LA.


I believe there is an LA 0 Drow in the Playerís Guide to Faerun. Is this a viable race option for someone wanting to play a drow for fluff reasons?

Yes.


Finally, would dropping spell resistance, one of the plusses, and limiting her to only one of a drow spell-likes reduce the race to LA +1?

Drows are usually weak for LA 2, so I'm sure it would be fine.

dsmiles
2009-11-19, 11:43 AM
Boci is correct. Drow are basic humanoids and have no racial HD, they must have a class (PC or NPC) level to have HD at all.
FYI: The LA0 Drow in the PGtF is called a Lesser Drow.

ericgrau
2009-11-19, 11:44 AM
Drow and SR tend to be underrated, as people tend to only look at the worst scenarios not the typical or best. Drop the SR and they don't have much left. It's still probably too strong for LA +0, but it's an awfully weak LA +1. I mean, what are they going to play? A caster with LA? A non-caster with mental stat boosts?

In a powergaming group where SR is "haha, I have cheesy orb spells for that", drop the LA to +1 right off the bat, no changes to the class. In a less min-maxy group, if you take out SR you'll have to put something back to bring the class up to LA 1, or nerf it a little more to bring it down to LA 0. The PGtF drow could make the rebalancing easier for you.

Jade_Tarem
2009-11-19, 12:50 PM
Drow are basic humanoids and have no racial HD, they must have a class (PC or NPC) level to have HD at all.

Not quite. Absolutely every creature forever in DnD has racial HD. The thing is, creatures that have just one racial hit die can (and should) drop it for the first level of a class, and pretty much always do.[/nitpick]

AtwasAwamps
2009-11-19, 01:38 PM
Awesome! Thanks for all the help!

Anonymouswizard
2009-11-19, 02:07 PM
Not quite. Absolutely every creature forever in DnD has racial HD. The thing is, creatures that have just one racial hit die can (and should) drop it for the first level of a class, and pretty much always do.[/nitpick]

In reality, all humanoids (as far as I know) are stated as 1st level warriors in 3.5. Drow, hobgoblin, whatever. That is a typical fighting member, and so the only one PC's care about. So in reality the humanoid type could be removed and them all stated out as races.

Also, maybe halve the SR? It is less powerful for a PC, as about 50% of the monster manual have SLAs or spells, and at high levels where they will crop up all the time, but a 20th level wizard will get past a 20ECL drow non-buy off LA' SR more than 50% of the time.

Sliver
2009-11-19, 02:25 PM
If I remember correctly, the biggest difference between lesser drow and normal drow is the INT and CHA bonuses, the range on their darkvision and the SR. Taking it off and making it a LA0 race gave became the lesser drow. I don't that the difference is worth LA2, and as lesser drow are fine for LA0, IMO, making drow a LA1 race without changing it at all, wouldn't make it overpowered..

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-11-19, 02:25 PM
Drow and SR tend to be underrated, as people tend to only look at the worst scenarios not the typical or best. Drop the SR and they don't have much left. It's still probably too strong for LA +0, but it's an awfully weak LA +1. I mean, what are they going to play? A caster with LA? A non-caster with mental stat boosts?

In a powergaming group where SR is "haha, I have cheesy orb spells for that", drop the LA to +1 right off the bat, no changes to the class. In a less min-maxy group, if you take out SR you'll have to put something back to bring the class up to LA 1, or nerf it a little more to bring it down to LA 0. The PGtF drow could make the rebalancing easier for you.The problem with SR on players is that you need to spend a Standard Action to lower it, meaning in-combat buffing and healing becomes nigh-useless on your character. Meanwhile, the number of opponents who care is fairly small(Casters with no martial capability who are below your level).

Zincorium
2009-11-19, 02:30 PM
Halving the SR and taking it away are pretty close- the slowing down of combat to make a roll that will almost always fail kind of offsets the slim chance of avoiding the spell.

Lesser drow are more powerful than moon elves underground and less powerful aboveground, so whether they're appropriate may depend on whether one of those dominates the campaign.

ericgrau
2009-11-19, 02:50 PM
The problem with SR on players is that you need to spend a Standard Action to lower it, meaning in-combat buffing and healing becomes nigh-useless on your character. Meanwhile, the number of opponents who care is fairly small(Casters with no martial capability who are below your level).
Those two things tend to be fairly poor options anyway, usually best done outside of combat. In an emergency you down a potion (bypasses SR) and/or run or etc. Use boots of speed for haste or etc. Again, this is hunting for the worst case scenario and ignores the many situations and monsters where SR is immensively useful. Even against equal level opponents it blocks half of spells and monster SLA's targeted at the drow.


A creatureís spell resistance never interferes with its own spells, items, or abilities.

Btw if you nerf the SR halving it will make it scale poorly: still ok at low levels and worthless at high levels. I'd subtract a flat amount from it if you want to nerf it. Half progression SR is only good vs. half progression caster levels, which is rare.

The Dark Fiddler
2009-11-19, 02:56 PM
Not quite. Absolutely every creature forever in DnD has racial HD. The thing is, creatures that have just one racial hit die can (and should) drop it for the first level of a class, and pretty much always do.[/nitpick]

I dunno, I'd rather one level in humanoid than two in commoner. :smallwink:

Foryn Gilnith
2009-11-19, 02:58 PM
I dunno, I'd rather one level in humanoid than two in commoner. :smallwink:

Are you mad? I'd rather two levels in commoner than one level in Monstrous Humanoid. +1 BAB, 5+twice Con mod hp, +2 cap on skills...

FMArthur
2009-11-19, 03:42 PM
Use the Drow Racial Class found in the last few pages of Drow of the Underdark. You get a LA0 drow at first and a strangely-worded "racial class" that you can actually multiclass out of - so you can cherry-pick abilities out of it for one or two LA at your own pace.