PDA

View Full Version : [3.5] Beastman race (2E conversion) (P.E.A.C.H.)



Thurbane
2009-11-20, 02:53 AM
Back in the 2E Complete Book of Humanoids, there was a race called Beastman. I believe they originate in the Greyhawk setting, and I'd like to use them as a playable race in my Greyhawk campaign.

I found a 3E version over at Enworld (http://www.enworld.org/cc/converted/view_c.php?CreatureID=467), but it wasn't exactly to my taste.

This is my 3.5 version:

http://i45.tinypic.com/s3lirt.gif

BEASTMAN CHARACTERS

Beastman characters possess the following racial traits.

Humanoid, Medium
+2 Dexterity, -2 Charisma.
A beastmanís base land speed is 30 feet.
Low light vision.
Spell resistance equal to 11 + class levels.
+8 racial bonus on Hide checks in forest environments.
+2 natural armor bonus.
Automatic Languages: Beastman. Bonus Languages: Common, Elven, Gnome, Halfling, Sylvan.
Favored Class: Ranger.
Level adjustment +1.

sigurd
2009-11-20, 03:11 AM
Curious,

Whats the source of the spell resistance?


Sigurd

Thurbane
2009-11-20, 03:32 AM
Back in the 2E days, Beastmen got 80% magic resistance.

Latronis
2009-11-20, 03:54 AM
Don't forget Type and Size

(assuming medium humanoid)

I'd say it's pretty solid. If i didn't have an aversion to monster humanoids I'd even play one.

Ashtagon
2009-11-20, 05:31 AM
The natural armour bonus looks a little powerful, especially since there aren't normally many ways a PC is going to pick up a natural armour bonus, so there aren't any stacking issues. Once enemies start doing 10+ damage on a hit, it is strictly better than DR 2/-.

Just judging by the picture, that doesn't look like it should be getting a +8 racial bonus to Hide. +2, no problem. +8 is for creatures that do it as naturally and as unconsciously as humans walk or fishes swim; this level normally requires some obvious level of physiological adaptation.

As written, it seems like a solid LA +1, maybe a bit on the more powerful end of that.

Latronis
2009-11-20, 05:57 AM
I would consider +4 racial bonus.

That puts them on par with halflings in forests, under everywhere else.

Thurbane
2009-11-20, 05:39 PM
The +8 racial bonus was based on that of the Gargoyle against stone. The beastman has some (limited) chameleon like properties of it's fur.

Special Advantages. Beastmen can make themselves undetected in forest settings, able to hide with 90% chance of success. Opponents who are not aware of the beastman's presence suffer a -6 penalty to their surprise rolls.

If +2 natural AC is too powerful, there's 3 options:

Drop it to +1, or 0.
Make the beastman LA +2.
Give it 1 or 2 humanoid racial HD.

Ashtagon
2009-11-20, 05:47 PM
In the case of the gargoyle, the physiological adaptation is that it is literally made of stone, and also that it can hold itself as motionless as an actual statue.

Even a decent chameleon ability is no substitute for something resembling a ghillie suit (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/42/Marine_sniper_ghillie_suit.JPG).

Xefas
2009-11-20, 05:57 PM
-2 Charisma

Mmmm...yes, they look like they'd be less intimidating than a human of the same level.

Seriously? The fact that all the ugly humanoids get charisma penalties is silly. Their presence would be more imposing, if anything.

I think you'd be better off with an Intelligence penalty, because their minds are less developed for logical thought than the civilized races (being all savage, feral, and beasty).

Thurbane
2009-11-20, 06:40 PM
Maybe I didn't make it clear, but this is an adaptation of an existing 2E race. In 2E, they got +2 DEX, -2 CHA.

In regards to it's hide bonus, the Skulk (RoD) gets +15 to hide (and +8 to Move Silently), so I wouldn't think that +8 in a specific environment is particularly overpowered.

Ashtagon
2009-11-21, 04:22 AM
Mmmm...yes, they look like they'd be less intimidating than a human of the same level.

Seriously? The fact that all the ugly humanoids get charisma penalties is silly. Their presence would be more imposing, if anything.

I think you'd be better off with an Intelligence penalty, because their minds are less developed for logical thought than the civilized races (being all savage, feral, and beasty).

I usually base Charisma modifiers on the race's ability to form large, complex, and self-sustaining societies. This is why I would normally give "ugly" races Charisma penalties - the two seem to be opposites in most fantasy tropes as often as not. otoh, most "ugly" races can probably quite happily use Strength as the modifying attribute for an Intimidate test. Such use of variant attributes is actually part of the core rules.

Charisma-based Intimidate: "I'm going to kill your parents and your siblings in front of you, slowly. Then I'm going to pull your fingers off, one by one".

Strength-based Intimidate: *waves big axe menacingly past your ears*. "You tell me now".

Latronis
2009-11-21, 05:18 AM
Charisma-based Intimidate: "I'm going to kill your parents and your siblings in front of you, slowly. Then I'm going to pull your fingers off, one by one".

Strength-based Intimidate: *waves big axe menacingly past your ears*.

Awh look at the fuzzy man try to be scary.

Yeah I don't buy strength based intimidate ever.

That implies you are intimidating solely because of how much force you can bring to bear.

You still need to 'convince' that it's too much force for them face, and you are willing to use it.

Even a massive feat of strength like say putting your fist through a solid timber door without flinching still requires some degree of manipulation.

Be at a glare promising your face is next or whatever.

Ashtagon
2009-11-21, 05:21 AM
"What, you're going to hurt my family and pull my pinky off? You and whose army?"

Even Charisma-based Intimidate fails if you lack the physical means to do it. Basing an Intimidate check solely off one attribute is kind of bizarre when you examine it too closely.

Latronis
2009-11-21, 05:29 AM
But the idea is you are convincing someone that you have the means and desire to do so. And charima just makes you more convincing :P

Ashtagon
2009-11-21, 06:02 AM
This is beginning to remind me of the Monty Python black knight sketch. It doesn't matter how convincing you are if you've got no arms left.

I'm not going to continue this little detour, because we're both talking in circles now.

Latronis
2009-11-21, 06:28 AM
Well obviously there does come a point where it's not really possible, but there's also precedent for a mysterious creepy little man.. physically unimposing who when he makes such threats.. you believe.

I'm not adverse to perhaps a circumstance bonus after a feat of strength or somthing along those lines. The aforementioned putting of ones fist through a door would certainly make an impact.

But there are far better ways of keeping a cha penalty race in an intimidate niche. Afterall a -2 cha is only 1 less intimidate. Give all the monster race humanoids a free skill focus intimidate or a racial bonus and you've still got a net gain in intimidate. And that way you can still have the less sociable aspects representated by a charisma penalty.

Although personally I'd rather do away with charisma bonuses and penalties as racial features altogether if i could. It's too mechanically replaceable or important and not all that realistic anyway. It might work comparitive to to the baseline humans but doesn't make a whole lot of sense within the race itself. Especially if such a race reproduces sexually.

Thurbane
2009-11-21, 07:08 PM
...so basically, do people think the race is balanced as is, or should I bump the LA (or add 2 racial HD)?

Latronis
2009-11-21, 08:13 PM
Honestly it's fine as is.

Upper echelon LA+1, but quite frankly LA races really should aim for the top bracket since level adjustment is almost always a point againest it.