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View Full Version : Is Skip lying or do Pixies not exchange 1st HD with a class level?



Starbuck_II
2009-11-20, 02:56 PM
When a creature of the humanoid type with one racial Hit Die or fewer gains its first class level, the racial Hit Die is dropped in favor of the class Hit Die. Creatures of other types simply add the class Hit Die to their existing Hit Dice, even if they have only one racial Hit Die. (The text dealing with monsters as races in the Dungeon Master's Guide doesn't make this clear, but the text in the Monster Manual does; see page 290). If the creature has levels from other classes, the Hit Die from the new class is added to the creature's total Hit Dice.


http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20060411a

Supposed Rules of the game?

Solaris
2009-11-20, 02:59 PM
It was a specific statement. I'd say it overrides the general.

Telonius
2009-11-20, 02:59 PM
SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monstersAsRaces.htm#hitDiceAndClassLevels) says:


Creatures with 1 or less HD replace their monster levels with their character levels. The monster loses the attack bonus, saving throw bonuses, skills, and feats granted by its 1 monster HD and gains the attack bonus, save bonuses, skills, feats, and other class abilities of a 1st-level character of the appropriate class.

Maybe it was different in 3.0?

EDIT: I'm away from my books right now, I'll have to go home and check p. 290 of the MM.

Duke of URL
2009-11-20, 03:00 PM
By 3.5 RAW, only creatures with 1 RHD or less can exchange that RHD (or partial RHD) for their first class level. All other creatures must have their full RHD applied.

The quoted text appears to have been revised (by errata, I assume) in the most up-to-date SRD:


Starting Level of a Monster PC

Monsters suitable for play have a level adjustment given in their statistics. Add a monster’s level adjustment to its Hit Dice and class levels to get the creature’s effective character level, or ECL. Effectively, monsters with a level adjustment become multiclass character when they take class levels. A creature’s “monster class” is always a favored class, and the creature never takes XP penalties for having it.

Hit Dice and Class Levels

Creatures with 1 or less HD replace their monster levels with their character levels. The monster loses the attack bonus, saving throw bonuses, skills, and feats granted by its 1 monster HD and gains the attack bonus, save bonuses, skills, feats, and other class abilities of a 1st-level character of the appropriate class.

Characters with more than 1 Hit Die because of their race do not get a feat for their first class level as members of the common races do, and they do not multiply the skill points for their first class level by four. Instead, they have already received a feat for their first Hit Die because of race, and they have already multiplied their racial skill points for their first Hit Die by four.

Note that it no longer applies to just humanoids, but creatures in general.

Even more specifically, the monster listing for Pixie includes:


Pixies As Characters

A pixie character exchanges its 1 HD of fey for its first class level.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-11-20, 04:52 PM
Refer to my Sig. That also applies to Custserve, Sage, and Skip.

Moriato
2009-11-20, 06:53 PM
Refer to my Sig. That also applies to Custserve, Sage, and Skip.

Ok, but it is, this time, at least. Just because it's in FAQ doesn't mean it's not also in RAW

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-11-20, 06:57 PM
Ok, but it is, this time, at least. Just because it's in FAQ doesn't mean it's not also in RAWDo you think it needs to be changed to FAQ != RAW? Because I thought that was understood.

Douglas
2009-11-20, 07:39 PM
The text referenced on page 290 of the Monster Manual is:

Humanoids and Class Levels: Creatures with 1 or less HD
replace their monster levels with their character levels.

Skip is apparently reasoning that the bolded paragraph header restricts the rule following it to humanoids. I don't think this is valid reasoning, and the SRD and things like the Pixie As Characters section back me up. Skip is mistaken in this case.

KillianHawkeye
2009-11-20, 07:46 PM
Note that this is also specifically mentioned in the description of the Humanoid creature type:

Humanoids with 1 Hit Die exchange the features of their humanoid Hit Die for the class features of a PC or NPC class. Humanoids of this sort are presented as 1st-level warriors, which means that they have average combat ability and poor saving throws.

No other creature type contains this clause, however that may be a holdover from 3.0. I believe the more general rule about 1 HD creatures should take priority.

oxybe
2009-11-20, 07:54 PM
i believe it's a hold over from 3.0, at least regarding Savage Species where pixies (a 5 level monster class) don't get to retrain the one HD they have.

the main reasoning is probably because it's a racial HD and not the normal warrior level goblins, kobolds and such are usually given by default. i do believe it was revoked so that the general rule is that a 1 HD monster can retrain that HD to be a class level though.

Mark Hall
2009-11-21, 02:46 AM
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20060411a

Supposed Rules of the game?

My rule of thumb: Ignore Skip Williams.