PDA

View Full Version : Understanding OGL and older material



jmbrown
2009-11-21, 05:03 PM
After reading OSRIC (http://www.knights-n-knaves.com/osric/), I was inspired to adapt AD&D 2E into open gaming rules. Although I read the OGL 1.0a thoroughly, I still have some questions for the more knowledgeable types mainly how the OGL pertains to older material. If Wizards owns the D&D license, does that also encompass all the material published under TSR and the Basic line?

From what I understand, the OGL covers "rules" which are stat blocks and descriptions directly pertaining to the rules. A monster's special combat rules can be reprinted but their ecology/habitat cannot as that's an original writing. Is this about right?

Zeta Kai
2009-11-21, 05:26 PM
Here's the thing: You cannot copyright game rules. You just can't. Not in America, anyway. What you CAN copyright is the the rules' presentation. The format & style, if you will. The OGL is basically, at its core, an agreement between WotC & the rest of gaming community that work like this:

"You guys can use THIS Stuff (95% of the core rulebooks, plus some other books), as long as you don't use THAT Stuff (character creation & advancement rules, ~11 monsters from the MM1, & anything from most splatbooks)."

That's the deal. You can talk about THAT Stuff, but you can't reprint THAT Stuff while claim the right to use THIS Stuff. Got it? Good.

Therefore, if you do use THAT Stuff, then you have to format it in a radically different manner. That's how it works for 3E, anyway. For 4E, the amount of GSL-allowed THIS Stuff is a lot less, but the same basics apply. For other editions, there is no free ticket to use THIS Stuff (because there was no equivalent of the OGL/GSL), so you'd have to repackage the entirety of the 2E material to avoid infringement. Which is what OSRIC essentially is, IIRC.

Matthew
2009-11-21, 05:32 PM
OSRIC and AD&D/1e/2e are so close to one another it seems a bit pointless to attempt to create an open game license version of second edition. The idea comes up now and again on Dragonsfoot and usually people resign themselves to optional supplements, such as the second edition fighter. if it is really something you want to do, though, you might take a look at this thread over on ENWorld and possibly contact some of the people posting there: 2e Retro-Clone? (http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/267948-2e-retro-clone.html).

jmbrown
2009-11-21, 06:04 PM
For other editions, there is no free ticket to use THIS Stuff (because there was no equivalent of the OGL/GSL), so you'd have to repackage the entirety of the 2E material to avoid infringement. Which is what OSRIC essentially is, IIRC.

Yeah, this is my biggest concern and why I created this topic. 1E and 2E are pretty similar in design with 2E basically tacking optional variants while refining some of the more questionable rules. This is more of a pet project than a serious endeavor but if and when the subject of "Can I legally reproduce this?" comes up in the future I want to have planned it now instead of the arduous task of changing it then.

After reading the topics in ENWorld, the tables are basically free to copy while I have to rewrite everything else. Sounds like a fun winter project, all previous attempts have disappeared or hit development hell, and I love 2E the most out of all editions sooooo.

Riffington
2009-11-21, 08:55 PM
So the OGL is not an open license. That is the first thing to understand (as Zeta Kai points out). It lets you use WotC trademarks (D20 system, D&D, etc) and some copyrighted text blocks in exchange for refusing to talk about certain things (mind flayers, etc) that you legally would otherwise be allowed to.

None of those copyrighted text blocks are 1st/2nd edition. WotC has no intention of allowing OGL earlier-edition material.

So what you want to do is to reprint the information in 1st or 2nd edition without violating copyright or trademarks. You thus can't call it D&D or OGL. You can't reprint any text blocks. You can give any amount of information, including names of monsters, XP, habitat, etc. Information (fictitious or otherwise) is never copyrightable. But you can't copy the wording of any rule or description.

jmbrown
2009-11-21, 09:08 PM
Yeah, I'll be using OSRIC as a guide line for what I can/can not do due to the similarities between 1E and 2E. That should serve as a good guideline since the creators of that eventually created a special print edition for sale and nothing legal has been brought against them.

There are a few cosmetic changes I wouldn't mind making primarily how to-hit works. I'm contemplating really hard about ditching THAC0 and instead using base attack and AC starting at 10. The mechanics are exactly the same (all classes start with BA +0 the equivalent of 20 THAC0 and the max AC is 30 the equivalent of -10) but pretty much everyone, including old schoolers, hates the idea of THAC0 for some reason.

nyjastul69
2009-11-21, 09:25 PM
So the OGL is not an open license. That is the first thing to understand (as Zeta Kai points out). It lets you use WotC trademarks (D20 system, D&D, etc) and some copyrighted text blocks in exchange for refusing to talk about certain things (mind flayers, etc) that you legally would otherwise be allowed to.

None of those copyrighted text blocks are 1st/2nd edition. WotC has no intention of allowing OGL earlier-edition material.

So what you want to do is to reprint the information in 1st or 2nd edition without violating copyright or trademarks. You thus can't call it D&D or OGL. You can't reprint any text blocks. You can give any amount of information, including names of monsters, XP, habitat, etc. Information (fictitious or otherwise) is never copyrightable. But you can't copy the wording of any rule or description.

The d20 STL and OGL are different entities. One can produce a game that is OGL, but not d20.