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View Full Version : D&D 4E - Evil beckons...



Boci
2009-11-23, 02:23 PM
Long story short someone decided to play a lawful good (stupid) paladin in an evil party. We want to develop a ritual to make him evil, something like taint soul. I was thinking it would require the blood of the subject and take one week to cast. However I'm not sure how much it would cost. Can anyone help me?

dsmiles
2009-11-23, 02:35 PM
13 Myrddal and 13 Aes Sedai...need I say more?

Boci
2009-11-23, 02:41 PM
13 Myrddal and 13 Aes Sedai...need I say more?

Yes since I'm not quite sure what you mean. I googled it and all I got was some reference to the wheel of time, which I haven't read.

dsmiles
2009-11-23, 02:48 PM
Good books, good investment for role-players. Lots of descriptive battles between the main character and the BBEGs. Lots of good concepts for DM's to exploit as well.

In a ritual (not specifically detailed yet; so feel free to make it up) that involves 13 of the evilest creatures to walk that world and 13 casters (incidentally all female; but I think it could be done with males as well) they can "force" someone to become evil. It's pretty prep time intensive (for the DM, not the players), but it turns the character without his/her consent.

Boci
2009-11-23, 03:02 PM
Good books, good investment for role-players. Lots of descriptive battles between the main character and the BBEGs. Lots of good concepts for DM's to exploit as well.

In a ritual (not specifically detailed yet; so feel free to make it up) that involves 13 of the evilest creatures to walk that world and 13 casters (incidentally all female; but I think it could be done with males as well) they can "force" someone to become evil. It's pretty prep time intensive (for the DM, not the players), but it turns the character without his/her consent.

I'd prefer if the ritual requires only 1 person, or at least only 1 person who has ranks in knowledge arcana. I don't want it taking any longer than a week, but less time would be good. And how much would it cost?

dsmiles
2009-11-23, 03:10 PM
Like I said...not specifically detailed, feel free to make it up.

If you want my advice for a quick fix, "accidentally" drop a Helm of Opposite Alignment in a treasure hoard (1e cursed item that switches the wearer to the diametrically opposed alignment...once. Mwahahahaha. Cursed becaue it detects as a Helm of Comprehend Languages or a Helm of Telepathy). Either the party will all suddenly become good, or the paladin will suddenly become evil.

Boci
2009-11-23, 03:16 PM
Like I said...not specifically detailed, feel free to make it up.

If you want my advice for a quick fix, "accidentally" drop a Helm of Opposite Alignment in a treasure hoard (1e cursed item that switches the wearer to the diametrically opposed alignment...once. Mwahahahaha. Cursed becaue it detects as a Helm of Comprehend Languages or a Helm of Telepathy). Either the party will all suddenly become good, or the paladin will suddenly become evil.

I don't think cursed treasure exists in 4E, and definatly not that one. The DM said he would allow us to make a ritual, but I do not think he would drop that as treasure.

dsmiles
2009-11-23, 03:27 PM
I feel saddened...cursed treasure is a staple of my games...:smallfrown:

As far as a ritual goes, something voodoo-ish should cover it. Some personal item fro mthe paladin...blood, urine, semen, hair, skin sample, etc...anything containing his/her DNA basically. One caster may be a problem...more casters may increase the chance that it works. As for costs in gp, I don't know. Some miscellaneous material components: animal (or human) sacrifice, chicken bones (to rattle around), strange potions that you con the paladin into drinking, etc...

hamishspence
2009-11-23, 03:37 PM
Artifacts which are displeased impose a sort-of curse.

Take the artifact rules, and experiment, and you could definitely give the party a bit of the old curse flavour.

Yakk
2009-11-23, 04:28 PM
It should clearly cost $Plot and require $Pacing time to cast.

Boci
2009-11-25, 05:35 PM
It should clearly cost $Plot and require $Pacing time to cast.

I guess so, but I'm just trying to figure out how much it should cost us to hire a spell caster to cast it, since our wizard isn't powerful enough.

Yakk
2009-11-26, 01:07 PM
Generally, such a spell shouldn't be castable for mere gold.

You are suborning the free will of an agent of a god. If it was cheap and easy to turn the wielder of divine power (or much power in general) into an evil being, gods would be much more paranoid about handing it out to lone wanderers. (Already, they build churches to train people who are unlikely to turn evil out of their own free will, then invest power in them)

Zeta Kai
2009-11-26, 01:29 PM
What the peanut gallery is telling is:

A) There are no existing rules for this.

B) You have your own set parameters.

C) You're the DM, so you make the rules.

D) You need to make this cost the players as much as they're willing to pay.

E) It's up to you, & we don't know you're campaign well enough to give you your answers.

F) This isn't homebrew. It's not even really a homebrew request.

Now, G)et out of H)ere, & show us what you can make. I)'ve said my peace.

J)ust don't K)ilL) M)e for this runN)ing jO)ke. I can't stoP). :smallredface:

FoE
2009-11-26, 01:41 PM
As a player, I would highly object to any kind of ritual that can change a person's alignment. And if the player is dedicated to his good PC, he's going to fight this fiercely. You can't force someone to follow a certain alignment. This could be the sort of thing that forever splits up your group because the rest of you guys wouldn't leave him the hell alone.

On the other hand, if he picked a good PC to deliberately piss off the rest of you, then forget the damn ritual and just gank him. He's clearly trying to pick a fight, so give him one.

I won't draw up a ritual for you, but at the very least it would be Epic level, and the caster would have to exceed the subject's level. As well, the subject would have to be helpless and the cost of the ritual would be very expensive; it should cost a couple hundred thousand GP.

dsmiles, this is a 4E thread. Why are you trying to chime in on a topic you know very little about?

Boci
2009-11-26, 09:16 PM
As a player, I would highly object to any kind of ritual that can change a person's alignment. And if the player is dedicated to his good PC, he's going to fight this fiercely. You can't force someone to follow a certain alignment. This could be the sort of thing that forever splits up your group because the rest of you guys wouldn't leave him the hell alone.

Don't worry, we aren't going to spring it on him. We'll talk about it some time. The three option are (and of course he will be the one to decide),
a. We kill his character and he rerolls
b. In game we engineer his downfall over a long period of time, making him an evil paladin
c. This ritual

Technically you could include option d, he realistically roleplays a lawful good paladin of Bahamut who gets along fine within an evil party, but I'm not too sure how realistic that is.


On the other hand, if he picked a good PC to deliberately piss off the rest of you, then forget the damn ritual and just gank him. He's clearly trying to pick a fight, so give him one.

He couldn't have picked it deliberately since he didn't know each others alignments in advance. But he hasnít re-rolled either.


I won't draw up a ritual for you, but at the very least it would be Epic level, and the caster would have to exceed the subject's level. As well, the subject would have to be helpless and the cost of the ritual would be very expensive; it should cost a couple hundred thousand GP.

Okay, we'll in game that could be arranged. I think some of those necromancers are epic...