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View Full Version : Retooling the Healer (Heal it! ~ Heal it! ~ No one wants to be defeated!)



T.G. Oskar
2009-11-28, 04:24 AM
Ladies and gentlemen! Childrens of all ages! Eldritch abominations and outsiders too!! ...Well, Undead and violent creeps aren't welcome this time...

This time, I present to you a class that felt like it ain't had no sunshine. Remember the time? When that pretty young thing called in-combat healing existed? (...If it existed at all?) When magic was only black or white? Perhaps not. However, I will tell a nice story. Don't worry, I'll be brief. It is the story of the class that felt it got to be there. A class that dreamt of "I wanna be there where you are", that sublime pedestal where Wizards and Clerics stand? But, alas, the Optimizers, those people who decide what goes and what comes, dismissed it. "Beat it", said the optimizers, "you can't win". "Leave me alone", said others: they weren't satisfied with how it was built. The fellow Tier 5 classes tried to cheer the little class up, saying "they don't care about us". And for a moment, it was true.

But...hey, things change. Monk got retooled the first. It was done better, beefier...who knows, maybe unbreakable. Ninja came next, and albeit UMD haunted it, it became a surprising thriller. Next, that smooth criminal that I am saw the Warmage, and said "we're gonna rock with you!". Then, that little class, forgotten by its peers, went to me and told me "do I deserve one more chance?". And hey, that little class did deserve one more chance. I told that class "you are not alone. Give in to me. I'll simply gonna tweak with just a little bit of you."

We're almost there, don't leave already!

Now, that class left in the closet has been released.

I expect that you read it, and you can tell to that little and forgotten class "I just can't stop loving you. The way you make me feel is special".

I wanna be startin' something. Something new, refreshing. Take those Tier 5 classes out of oblivion, or at least grant them some attention. See if this works or this doesn't. I hope this works, but hey, if it doesn't, it can be fixed a bit more. You know, don't stop 'til you got enough.

Who is it?

Well...this is it. Heaven can wait.

It's time to heal the world...
This may not make sense; this is intentional. Kudos to whom gets the reference :P
HEALER

"Flesh wounds heal on their own, but the scars of war can't be healed only with time. I can only hope I can heal those..."

MAKING A HEALER (or, what has changed and what hasn't)
Abilities: Charisma is the most important stat for the Healer, because it fuels the healer's spellcasting and also determines the amount of points for the Healing Hands ability. Wisdom is also very important, as it determines the saving throw against the healer's aura of protection and enhances your healing. As for other stats, a good Constitution increases the healer's chances of survival.
Races: Humans, naturally, serve well as healers because of their lack of penalties to ability scores, as well as their racial bonus feat. Elves also work decently, because while they offer a low Constitution score, they offer a decent Dexterity boost and also a few proficiencies with weapons in case things get rough. Gnomes, albeit small, take advantage of the high Charisma and also hold a very good Con boost.
Upon the savage races, the Planetouched (specifically the Aasimar) work well with the class, offering resistances and the right stat boosts. Githzerai may work as well, with their massive Dex bonus coupled with their Inertial Armor which allows them to wear little to no armor.
Alignment: Any non-evil. Be it tradition or be it simple caprice, Healers are not meant to be evil. Healing, naturally, isn't a good act by definition but resorting to non-lethal damage and the lack of specific self-buffing spells may run a bit counter to the nature of Evil. However, if you find a twisted interpretation where Evil and Healer work out, be my guest. However, a Healer can be completely Neutral, focused on the idea of healing without a care for whom it heals, whether a champion of good of a champion of evil.
Starting Gold: as Healer
Starting Age: as Healer

Class Skills: The healerís class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Knowledge (nature) (Int), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Knowledge (the planes) (Int), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Spellcraft (Int) and Survival (Wis)
Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int modifier) x 4.
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier.

Surprisingly enough, the Healer has a decent amount of skill points. Considering they have little to no need for Int, and they have a pretty hefty skill list, they make a good use of the extra skill points. Healers draw a bit from Cleric and Druid, so they get both the skill sets of a Cleric and those of a Druid.

Unlike other classes, Healers get no access to Use Magic Device. I originally added it to the mix, but...I declined on the official posting for purposes of going safe. However...just consider I might add UMD if necessary.

Hit Die: d6.


Level
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Special
0lvl
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th
6th
7th
8th
9th


1st
+0

+0

+0

+2
Healer's blessing, submission strike
5
3
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


2nd
+1

+0

+0

+3
Aura of protection
6
4
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


3rd
+1

+1

+1

+3
Advanced learning
6
5
3
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


4th
+2

+1

+1

+4
Healing hands (damage)
6
6
4
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


5th
+2

+1

+1

+4
Boundless healing (healing spells)
6
6
5
3
-
-
-
-
-
-


6th
+3

+2

+2

+5
Extension of blessing +1
6
6
5
4
-
-
-
-
-
-


7th
+3

+2

+2

+5
Advanced learning, extension of life
6
6
6
5
3
-
-
-
-
-


8th
+4

+2

+2

+6
Healing hands (status)
6
6
6
5
4
-
-
-
-
-


9th
+4

+3

+3

+6
Boundless hand (touch spells)
6
6
6
6
5
3
-
-
-
-


10th
+5

+3

+3

+7
Improved healer's blessing
6
6
6
6
5
4
-
-
-
-


11th
+5

+3

+3

+7
Advanced learning
6
6
6
6
6
5
3
-
-
-


12th
+6/+1

+4

+4

+8
Extension of blessing +2
6
6
6
6
6
5
4
-
-
-


13th
+6/+1

+4

+4

+8
Boundless hand (wide area spells)
6
6
6
6
6
6
5
3
-
-


14th
+7/+2

+4

+5

+9

6
6
6
6
6
6
5
4
-
-


15th
+7/+2

+5

+5

+9
Advanced learning
6
6
6
6
6
6
6
5
3
-


16th
+8/+3

+5

+5

+10

6
6
6
6
6
6
6
5
4
-


17th
+8/+3

+5

+5

+10
Retributive healing
6
6
6
6
6
6
6
6
5
3


18th
+9/+4

+6

+6

+11
Extension of blessing +3
6
6
6
6
6
6
6
6
6
4


19th
+9/+4

+6

+6

+11
Advanced learning
6
6
6
6
6
6
6
6
6
5


20th
+10/+5

+6

+6

+12
Benediction
6
6
6
6
6
6
6
6
6
6



First things first: Healers are not warriors. Unlike Warmages, which require a decent BAB to fight and aim their ranged touch spells, a Healer doesn't need the attack bonus that much. The amount of spells they get is exactly like the Warmage does: it is intentional, for reasons explained below.

Naturally, this means Healers work a bit more like "frail" spellcasters and get a good Will, but low Fort. I'm also inclining to give it good Fort, since it won't seriously step on the toes of the Cleric, just to tell you.

UPDATE (8/28/2010): I'm going to try a new paradigm on prepared and spontaneous spellcasting. It won't remove the Big 5 from their tier, but it should make the path a bit harder. As you can see, the access to spells for the Healer has been buffed up to odd levels (so they get spells one level earlier). The Warmage and any spontaneous spellcaster from now on will follow that paradigm, while prepared spellcasters will gain spells on even levels. Basically, a switcheroo. How's that for some more love?

Class Features
All of the following are class features of the healer.
Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: A healer is proficient with all simple bludgeoning weapons. Healers are proficient with medium armor and light shields.

As mentioned, Healers are not warriors. They can buff themselves into decent fighting capability, but they aren't warriors at at all. Simple bludgeoning weapons aren't so bad, either: this includes the quarterstaff, the club, the light mace, the unarmed strike (!), the gauntlet (!!), and the sling with bullets. Plus...there's other simple weapons out there that are bludgeoning out there. So...you get two strong weapons, a double weapon, proficiency on your fists, a two-hander, and even a ranged weapon.

However, despite Healers being not front-line warriors, they need a good defense. They aren't going to part without some decent protection, no? Light shields are decent enough, and so does medium armor. The oaths that prevented their use of metal armor are silly, so I disposed of them. If you're going to be akin to the violence, you either are non-violent or you ditch the idea: however, you aren't going to be out of proper protection just because. Medium is right around the point.

Submission Strike (Ex): A healer, while understanding the need for violence in certain occasions, prefers to subdue her opponents instead. A healer may choose to deal non-lethal damage with any weapon she uses (normally bludgeoning weapons, but the ability extends to any weapons with which she gains proficiency) without the penalty to attack rolls for executing the action.

This is, I'll admit it, more of a flavor ability than a potent ability. It works better as a commitment, and it doesn't restrict as much: if you want to go lethal for some reason, go for it: if you don't, you should better know how to go non-lethal. Besides, there are times when you don't want the target killed for some reason, and you don't need a sap or an unarmed strike to do that.

If you somehow get proficiency with other weapons (say, take a level on another class or racial proficiencies), you can use those weapons and give non-lethal damage to them.

Spells: A healer casts divine spells, which are drawn from the healer spell list below. She can cast any spell she knows without preparing it ahead of time. When a healer gains access to a new spell list, she automatically learns all the spells for the level listed on the healerís spell list. Essentially, her spell list is the same as her spells known list. Healers also have the option of adding to their existing spell list through their advanced learning ability as they increase in level (see below).
To cast a spell, a healer must have a Charisma score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a healerís spell is 10 + the spell level + the healerís Charisma modifier. Like other spellcasters, a healer can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. Her base daily spell allotment is given on Table: The Healer. In addition, she receives bonus spells per day if she has a high Charisma score.
As noted above, a healer need not prepare her spells in advance. She can cast any spell she knows at any time, assuming she has not yet used up her allotment of spells per day for the spellís level.

Alright. Ready? Here we go: Healers cast spells as Warmages, Beguilers and Dread Necromancers do. Why the need to...prepare from a very short list? Tradition? Heck no, give them all the spells and make them spontaneous. I feel this was a brain fart from the devs, who couldn't do well with the Healer and decided to copy-pasta the Cleric's method of casting. I felt they worked better as a limited spontaneous spellcaster class, and their spell list is much more respectable now.

Healers, however, have two advantages compared to other classes: first, they are Divine spellcasters. That means no ASF of any kind, which is great. Second, Divine gets a great assortment of buffs, some of which are oddly absent from the arcane spell lists. There are some Arcane buffs which are oddly lost (HASTE!!!), but Divine works that right.

Which, in any case...it seems to be only one good advantage. The other is not that spectacular...well, it *does* allow you access to divine PrCs...

Healerís Blessing (Su): A healer devotes to seal the wounds provoked by battle, as well as the maladies and ailments often resulting from war. More often than not, the wounds refuse to heal completely, serving mostly as a temporary remedy than a full remedy, and even more often, the endurance provided by her becomes insufficient in the face of greater odds. To combat this situation, the healer reinforces her devotion to remedy wounds to reinforce her abilities.
At 1st level, whenever a healer casts a spell that heals hit point damage directly (and not by methods such as fast healing), she may add her Wisdom modifier times her class level, divided by two, to the amount of healing provided by the spell. In case this ability affects multiple times, the effect works only once. This bonus healing is added at the end, and thus is never affected by metamagic. This ability only applies only to spells that she casts from her healerís spell slots, not from those she may have by virtue of levels in another class.

Same, and yet not the same as Warmage. Healers get the ability, right from the beginning, to heal more than their peers. Furthermore, their healing abilities grow steadily, by using the same tested method as a Warmage does (the retooled Warmage I did, not the original Warmage that is). This makes them already better healers than Clerics or Druids, if only on their own spell slots. However, in-combat healing isn't as awesome as other stuff. That should be addressed later on.

Just as a pointer: this means damage to Undead increases steadily. Most undead don't have a spectacular amount of Hit Dice, or the correspondent HP.

Aura of Protection (Su): At 2nd level, a healerís devotion protects her from surrounding violence. So as long as she remains true to her cause, enemies will feel a supernatural aversion to harm her. A healer emanates a permanent aura that causes an effect identical to the Sanctuary spell, with a save DC equal to 10 + Ĺ the healerís class level + the healerís Wis modifier. Once an attacking creature succeeds on the saving throw, or is victim to a healerís attack, the effect is suppressed for the creature for the next 24 hours.

Not exactly late, and an ability that works just as well for a Healer. This is, as you can see, a permanent Sanctuary effect. This means, a Healer can move through the party and use their enhanced heals and buffs without the need for worrying about damage...that much. The Sanctuary effect scales with level, so it should remain strong even at higher levels.

Advanced Learning: At 3rd level and every four levels after that, a healer can add a new spell to her list, representing the result of personal study and experimentation. The spell must be a cleric or druid spell of the abjuration, conjuration (healing) or transmutation schools, and of a level no higher than that of the highest spell level the healer already knows. Once a new spell is selected, it is forever added to that healerís spell list and can be cast just like any other spell on the healerís list.

Same as retooled Warmage, a Healer can gain specific spells to their list. If you feel a bit out of offensive spells, or you want a personal buff, here's your chance. This also counts any spells that aren't on the Spell Compendium that might fit a Healer, so getting five extra spells (and one 9th level spell at that!!) makes the Healer a tad stronger.

Healing Hands (Su): At 4th level, a healerís devotion to her craft allows her to manipulate a personal pool of positive energy, which allows her to heal wounds of creatures even when she has expended all of her magical power. As she progresses, her skill at healing directly with positive energy improves.
At 4th level, a healer gains the ability to heal the wounds of living creatures (her own or those of others) by touch. Each day she can heal a number of points of damage equal to twice her class level times her Charisma bonus. She can choose to divide her healing among multiple recipients, and she doesnít have to use it all at once. Alternatively, she may use any or all of this ability to deal damage to undead creatures. Using this ability in this way requires a successful melee touch attack that does not provoke attacks of opportunity.
Beginning at 8th level, the healer can choose to spend some of the healing bestowed by this ability to remove other harmful conditions affecting the target. To remove each ability, a healer must have a minimum requisite amount of ranks in the Heal skill.
5 points: ability damage (10 ranks), daze (8 ranks), fatigue (10 ranks), sicken (10 ranks), slow (10 ranks)
10 points: ability drain (14 ranks), exhaustion (14 ranks), nausea (14 ranks), paralysis (10 ranks), poison (14 ranks), stun (10 ranks)
20 points: blind (12 ranks), deaf (12 ranks), disease (12 ranks), energy drain (14 ranks), petrify (18 ranks)
A healer can remove a condition (or more than one condition) and heal damage with the same touch, so as long as she expends the required number of points.

Think about it.

The Paladin, champion of Light and Justice, has a Lay on Hands ability which can eventually turn into a pretty good ability (using its own spells and magic items). The Dragon Shaman, another healer-buffer class, also has a healing method. Heck, even the Cleric has a healing pool ACF. Heck, even the MONK (both original, Pathfinder, retooled...pretty much every Monk out there) has a healing pool (even if it's just for itself). So...why the healer doesn't have this? Is it for the spells? Perhaps...despite the Healer's Blessing, you don't want to risk it. Perhaps you need more power than before. Or, perhaps you want to save some of your spells. Who knows? For that, Healing Hands.

Or, if you want it on some funky terms: I heard you liked Healing, so I added some Healing to your Healing so you can Heal while you Heal. Except...you don't actually use these points while healing. Though, you just *might*...

As you can see, this is pretty much a combination between Lay on Hands and Touch of Vitality. The higher your Charisma, the higher your healing ability. Or your undead-wounding ability.

Regarding the Heal ranks requirement: Heal is widely underused. This, mechanically, doesn't seem the right method, but I wanted to do something important to the Heal skill. I could have turned the Heal skill into the extra amount of healing for the Healer's Blessing ability, but the Warmage Edge-sque ability that currently stands works quite "organically" with the character's HP and average to high damage ratio. Ideas on how to make Heal more awesome are suggested, although I recall Healing Lorecall to be one of those.

Boundless Healing (Su): At 5th level, a healer seeks to surpass the limitations that hinder her abilities. She learns to unleash her healing powers upon a distance. Any spell cast by the healer that restores hit points and has a range of touch has its range extended to close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels). The spell does not need to be a conjuration (healing) spell, but it must be capable of restoring hit point damage to the creature without causing damage to a secondary creature.
At 9th level, any spell cast by the healer that grants any kind of bonus to an ability score, attack rolls, damage rolls, armor class, saving throws or skill checks and has a range of touch has its range increased to close.
At 13th level, any spell that restores hit points or that provides any kind of bonus to an ability score, attack roll, damage roll, armor class, saving throw or skill check and affects multiple creatures has its maximum ranges doubled. Treat this ability as if using the Widen Spell metamagic feat, including and not limited to the maximum distance between targets, except that you don't use a higher level spell slot and there is no increase in casting time.
This ability only applies only to spells that she casts from her healerís spell slots, not from those she may have by virtue of levels in another class.

This is an ability that the Healer needed, and pretty much badly needed. The 5th level ability makes the basic Cure X Wounds spells touch spells, which means a Healer can just stand ground ona specific place and heal from a distance. If you add Still Spell, you might just heal while bound.

9th level does the same for buffs. Now, the original Healer had almost no buffs at all, and that sucked. Very badly, I might add. This makes buffing much better, since you can take some of the crucial buffs and give them to a character at the (close) distance, providing some mobility for your party and allowing for tactical positioning.

13th level is where things get really good. By definition, you're meant to have up to 6th level spells, so that means you have area buffing. This makes area buffing much better, far much better. The inclusion of maximum range between characters is significant: you can't cast a spell to targets that are between 30 ft. from each other. This makes the range between targets be 60 ft. instead, which means you can be spread far away and still get a few people or two on the same area.

Extension of Blessing (Su): A healer isnít exclusively devoted to restore the health of the wounded, but also to prevent the wounds from happening in first instance, preferably without resorting to personal violence. As she learns to improve her healing ability, she learns to improve her protective spells and even her enhancement spells.
At 6th level, any spell cast by a healer that grants any kind of bonus to attack rolls, damage rolls, Armor Class, saving throws or skill checks has its base bonus increased by one. This increase affects any bonus provided by the spell if there is more than one. A healer cannot apply this bonus increment to any bonus towards ability scores, even if increasing ability scores provides an increase in the aforementioned parameters. At 12th level and again at 18th level, this increment in bonus increases by one. This ability only applies only to spells that she casts from her healerís spell slots, not from those she may have by virtue of levels in another class.

Remember what we did to healing? Yeah, you probably remember. We boosted the amount of points healed by a healing spell, so if we're going to make a Healer more attractive, why not do the same with buffs? This means your typical buffs get far, far much better. At level 18, one of your buffs should be spectacular, since it will work better than any other buff. This should make the Healer be a sought-after caster right around 18th level, since you do want that +3 bonus to any buffing spell, right!? Right...?

Extension of Life (Su): At 7th level, a healer learns to hold excess positive energy from her healing spells in the target, which work to immediately fresh wounds. Whenever a spell cast by the healer that restores hit points to a creature heals up to the creatureís maximum amount of hit points, the excess points are turned into temporary hit points, which last for an amount of rounds equal to the healer's class level. A creature must be healed of a wound of at least half the creatureís Hit Dice in order to be affected by this ability. This ability only applies only to spells that she casts from her healerís spell slots, not from those she may have by virtue of levels in another class.

You probably know of it. In my game table, we call it "bleeding Hit Points". Or rather, "coughing Hit Points" (we actually do a coughing expression). Or..."spitting Hit Points". It's almost the same thing for the same event: you get "overhealed". What happens with all those extra points? Simple, they get wasted.

Not anymore.

You see, temporary Hit Points serve as decent buffers. You get protection from the Power Word spells, and also a buffer against damage. It makes sense that overhealing should grant you temporary Hit Points; after all, the Positive Energy Plane does this as well, doesn't it?

So, if your pal needs a Cure Light Wounds spell (with more healing per level and extra range), and it gets fully healed, it gets a buffer so that it doesn't get wounded so badly again. This should make in-combat healing more attractive, since you're actually granting some extra protection to your pals from further damage. To a point, of course.

Improved Healerís Blessing (Su): At 10th level, a healer further improves her healing abilities. She adds half her class level as bonus dice to any spell affected by the healerís blessing class ability, of the same die size. If the spell does not use dice, then this ability does not affect it.

Surprised? You should be.

One of the main reasons why healing isn't attractive is because you get spells and breath effects that deal hundreds of hit points of damage, and your healing spells are still on the low tens. This should level the playing ground a little bit, providing more healing for your buck. It'll take a long while before it beats Heal, of course, but it should make that lowly Cure Light Wounds more attractive. Or that Mass Cure Light Wounds, that is.

Retributive Healing (Su): At 17th level, a healer learns the outstanding ability to heal wounds at a moment's notice, from small and single to masses of fatally wounded allies. Her ability to do so is reflexive in nature, and allows her a great deal of manipulation on her craft.

Once per round, as an immediate action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity, a healer may use a conjuration (healing) spell or expend points from her Healing Hands ability whenever an enemy injures an ally, or herself. The ally must be within close range, and the healer must decide whether to activate the ability or not once the result of the damage is known. A healer may use any conjuration (healing) spell she knows that affects a single target and that lasts no longer than a full-round action, or expend as many points of her Healing Hands ability as she desires. She may also choose to use a conjuration (healing) spell that affects multiple creatures, but with two conditions: the attack must affect more than one ally, and only the injured allies receive the benefit (so if an ally within range of the spell was not injured, the spell has no effect on him or her). For conjuration (healing) spells, the effects of Healer's Blessing, Improved Healer's Blessing and Extension of Life apply.

This one is a late addition, and something that ruminated in my mind. Healers get no way to quicken spells, unless they go Rapid Metamagic or something; even then, they can't heal right at the moment when they need it, and that's right when your allies get damage. Furthermore, most of the people around here pointed out that there were three levels that could be treated as dead levels, and specifically 17th level which is quite clearly defined as a dead level (specifically, Temotei221. After some requisition, zagan provided an idea that jolted this. So, kudos for them in their own way.

Retributive Healing is meant to work by allowing the Healer the right moment to cast the right spell. Given that it is a Conjuration (Healing) spell, it means split-second healing (and even reviving!), but chosen at the right moment. If the wound merits no healing, then there should not be any reason why to waste a spell (unless you want to give it the traits of Extension of Life). However, if for some reason you get to a point where your entire party is wounded so badly, the next attack may nuke them to oblivion, this is the moment the Healer should shine, and what better than to provide it with the ability to do so even outside its turn. Healing Hands is added because you might want to save one of your spell slots for something important, such as a buff. It could fit either as a 14th or 16th level ability, but it's both thematically linked to Extension of Life and Healing Hands, as well as being unique on its own way; thus, it's perfect for level 17th. Now, level 17th is no longer bare naked, no longer a dead level.

Benediction (Su): At 20th level, a healerís devotion allows her to defy even death itself. She can manipulate her reserves of positive energy to restore life to the fallen, at the extent of her own lifeforce.
To use this ability, a healer must have at least 40 points in her healing hands ability available to use. By expending all points of this ability, a healer is capable of reviving all fallen allies within 30 ft. Treat this ability as if a true resurrection spell, except that the healer requires no diamonds (as usual for a supernatural ability) and gains a negative level per each creature she revives in this way. These negative levels remain for 24 hours, and cannot be removed by any means. At the end of the 24-hour period, she recovers her lost levels as normal.

Wait...it's over already? We dealt with some of the things that make healing bad. Healing has a bigger range, heals more, heals definitely more, and provides temporary hit points to your hit points. By now, healing should be attractive. Healing hands doesn't get that benefit, sure, but it doesn't mean it shouldn't be attractive. However, if you're a healer, what happens when your healed people die?

Simple, you use this. This would be the theoretical equivalent of an Epic Spell exclusive to the Healer, where you get a free, once per day super-resurrection ability. Let's see how it works:

First, you get revived. That's cool.

Second, it's True Resurrection. True. Ressu. Frickin'. Rection. Which means no loss of level or permanent Con, regardless of how much time has the corpse spent dead, or the condition. Just uttering the names should be enough.

Third, it requires no costly diamonds. Just an expenditure of points from the Healing Hands pool.

Fourth, it's a supernatural ability. Yes, supernatural. No spell-like ability. That means it can't be enhanced with the spell-like ability enhancers, but it *can* be enhanced with the supernatural ones. Also, it provokes no attacks of opportunity. So, you can be pretty much in midst of combat and you can revive your allies as if nothing had happened.

The only catch? A negative level per each resurrection. Those are temporary levels, and you never risk the chance of losing them. This is one heavy blow for such a powerful capstone, but reasonable, in the sense that someone has to pay for such an insanely strong power. But, it should not penalize you.

As it stands, it assures one free "get out of TPK" card, no questions asked, with the catch of being weakened for the day because of this. If you're a healer, this should be the most potent healing ability you can have. I declined for the Warmage capstone, since it makes sense for them to have metamagic reductions for greater power (in terms of damage). A Healer, on the other hand, wants the power to prevent deaths, and this looks like the kind of thing.

As usual, please comment on the class. You can say whatever you desire so as long as it's class related or class ability related. Whether that sucks and doesn't deserve to see the light or day, or that it's the best thing since sliced bread/other exciting things. As usual, I as humble servant shall answer to the best of my capabilities and deal with your concerns, much like I've done for the other three retoolings.

Oh, and the spells? Look below.

T.G. Oskar
2009-11-28, 05:12 AM
Healer Spell List
0ócreate water, cure minor wounds, deathwatch, detect magic, detect poison, guidance*, light, mending, purify food and drink, read magic, resistance*, virtue*
1stóbless*, bless water, blessed aim*, calm animals*, conviction*, cure light wounds, endure elements*, goodberry, halt animal*, healthful rest*, incite*, inhibit*, lesser vigor*, longstrider*, omen of peril*, protection from chaos*, protection from evil, protection from law*, remove fear, remove paralysis, resurgence*, sanctuary, shield of faith*, whelm*
2ndó aid*, barkskin*, bearís endurance*, bullís strength*, calm emotions*, cure moderate wounds, close wounds, delay poison, divine protection*, eagleís splendor*, enthrall*, gentle repose, halt undead*, healing lorecall*, lesser restoration, lesser spell immunity*, make whole*, owlís wisdom*, protection from negative energy*, remove blindness/deafness, remove disease, resist energy*, shield other*, status, whelming blast*
3rdócreate food and water, cure serious wounds, dispel magic*, grace*, hold person*, inevitable defeat*, magic vestment*, mantle of chaos*, mantle of good*, mantle of law*, mass aid*, mass conviction*, mass lesser vigor*, mass resist energy*, mass resurgence*, neutralize poison, prayer*, protection from energy*, remove curse, restoration, vigor*, wind wall*
4thócontingent energy resistance*, cure critical wounds, death ward, delay death, freedom of movement, greater resistance, last breath*, mass aid*, mass cure light wounds, mass shield of faith*, panacea, positive energy aura*, recitation*, reincarnate*, rejuvenation cocoon*, revenance*, sheltered vitality*, spell immunity*, wall of chaos*, wall of good*, wall of law*
5thóatonement, break enchantment, dance of the unicorn*, divine agility*, greater vigor*, mass cure moderate wounds, mass whelm*, raise dead, revivify, spell resistance*, stalwart pact*, stoneskin*, stone to flesh, true seeing
6thóenergy immunity*, greater dispel magic*, greater restoration, heal, heroesí feast, hold monster*, mass bearís endurance*, mass bullís strength*, mass cure serious wounds, mass eagleís splendor*, mass owlís wisdom*, rejection*,revive outsider*, superior resistance*, vigorous circle*, regenerate, repel wood*, tortoise shell*
7thóaura of vitality*, mass cure critical wounds, mass hold person*, mass restoration*, mass spell resistance*, overwhelm*, renewal pact*, repulsion, resurrection
8thóantimagic field*, cloak of chaos*, death pact*, discern location, greater spell immunity*, holy aura , mass death ward*, mass heal, repel metal or stone*, shield of law*
9thóantipathy*, foresight, mass hold monster*, sympathy*, true resurrection, unyielding roots*
*: spells not on the original Healer list.

I'll be honest with you guys. This list took me a long time to work out.

Healers, as they stood, couldn't do their job well. They had some quirks, nominally having some spells stretched back one level (so they had Mass Heal at level 15th instead of level 17th), and they had the Gate spell. But, in terms of buffing and proper healing, they had nothing. Absolutely nothing, in fact. Their spell list was quite demeaning, devoid of actual good stuff to work with.

The concept behind this spell list is simple: to grant the Healer a veritable amount of buffs and healing spells so as to justify their existence as mass buffers. They are not meant to be played solo, and that's pretty fine: they are group players, and they thrive on a group. Since they are now limited spontaneous spellcasters, they have some disadvantages compared to other classes, such as the inability to use Quicken Spell (that can be a really bad one). So, they needed a very reasonable, yet very good amount of spells to compensate for the method.

The spells should be classified in this way:
--Healing: the cream and crop of the class. Much like Warmage is meant for blasting, Healer is meant for healing. The abilities already show how powerful healing has turned out, so it's reasonable that more healing spells are added. Between those, I added the Vigor line, which is very potent, along with pretty much every variant of Resurrection, including the split-second resurrection spells and...even the Reincarnation line. Why Reincarnation? Well, it makes the Healer complete, gives it a nifty gimmick, and they get Druid spells so it's not completely out of their line of work.
--Wards: wards are essentially those spells that grant resistances or immunities. The original Healer only had a few, and about two or three of those were limited only to protect from a single alignment (Evil, in this case). Even though it seems a bit out of proportion, Healers are technically capable of using spells opposite to their ethical alignment (Law/Chaos) without trouble, so they can get and use the Protection from/Magic Circle from/Aura spells without much trouble. The rest are pretty strong wards that were left out, and for no good reason but to tie to a much limited concept: spells such as Protection from Energy and Resist Energy, as well as higher level spells such as Spell Resistance.
--Buffs: part of the new concept of the Healer is to have something to do when it's not healing. Since Healers are not warriors per se, buffing should come naturally for them. The bulk of buffs were loaded into the list, which accounts for why the first levels of spells are so huge. In the case of wards and buffs, they are restricted to non-personal buffs, which means such standards like Divine Power and Righteous Might are out of the official list (but can be considered for Advanced Learning if you desire) Most of these buffs are the kind of spells that will get the benefit from Extension of Blessing, mind you.
--Repels: an odd line of spells, mostly Abjurations, these spells are meant to, quite evidently, repel certain materials or creatures. They got those spells in the original version, and they fit the idea of preventing personal harm so as to remain alive, so they got expanded. Most of the actual Druid spells were spells dealing with animals, and while they have Handle Animal around, they aren't particularly dependant on those. Even more now, since they no longer have their Unicorn companion.

Much like the Warmage, the Healer has a pretty reasonable spell list, which should hold enough spells. If you, as a DM, decide to expand the spell list, consider the following:
--The spells chosen were from the Cleric and Druid spells of the Player's Handbook, Miniatures Handbook and Spell Compendium. I also added from Complete Divine, but most if not all of those spells exist on the SpC, so I naturally went to the SpC for the updated version.
--The Healer's spell list is intentionally limited, given that they know all those spells at the same time. Don't go overboard adding spells like crazy; Advanced Learning exists so that players acquire the ability to choose spells of their own, to complement any deficiencies they find in their playing style.
--For buffs, if you're going to add to the official spell list, attempt to add spells that don't have a personal range (touch is fine, tho), and mostly those that don't depend on a deity to work. This is because Healers are expected to work outside of established religions. In case of playing a realm where being a Divine spellcaster forces you to take a patron deity, you may add such spells to the list.
--Healers are not warriors, so don't go adding attack spells to them. If there's a spell that allows to repel a creature, feel free to add it. Also, if there's an equivalent to an already existing spell that's on the list, you may add it on a case-by-case basis.

In either case (adding, removing or keeping the same), the idea is that the Healer will remain around the back lines or the middle lines, providing healing and buffing support to the party. The spell list should reflect upon that.

Finally, and as a word of advice: being a Healer means you won't be on most of the frontline actually dealing damage. You can buff yourself and actually make yourself useful in battle, and you can add some attack spells to assist in combat, but the idea is that you're a group player, and you aren't stepping on the Wizard's terrain. Most of the class' spells have a duration of rounds per CL or minutes per CL, and since you can cast any of those you desire, you have a much easier task on your hands, as well as having some participation on the battle. However, and this is a big however, you are not inclined to force a class on a character if you want them to be the group's healbot. Healers make fine NPCs on their own, and also great DMPCs if the group is a bit empty, but the idea is to make the task of healing easier and better for those who wish to undertake it. The idea of having this limited spell list, or having the Healer be largely ineffective in combat reinforces that idea, an idea that most experienced players and most optimizers shun as they consider (and rightly, I don't say they're wrong), that the best defense is a good offense, or that you can save a character if you end the battle quicker. You're welcome to debate the class on the grounds of how ineffective the task they have may be, but consider that the purpose of this retooling is to give some validity to the class, and to the idea of combat healing as a whole. This is a pretty hard task to deal while dealing with a system that, while not flawed, has a distinct method of playing out.

Without anything else to say for the moment, I hope you've enjoyed this humble retooling, and hope you may consider this class for your players, and your game, as a satisfactory addition.

UPDATE (12/1/2009): What? More spells!?

Given that the Healer possesses few to no offensive actions, I decided to expand their offensive capabilities by adding some hold spells and some non-lethal damage spells (mostly, the Halt/Hold line and the Whelm line).

Now...this breaks theme a bit, and for a good reason: most of these spells are either Sorcerer/Wizard spells or Bard spells (and also Beguiler spells). While adding both spell lines means the Healer is getting into the Beguiler line, it does not cross the line or eclipses the Beguiler in any way: Beguiler has its stuff and Healer has its stuff (and in most cases, the Beguiler has some good reasons to exist).

This also means I broke my own theme, of keeping stuff mostly and exclusively PHB/Minis/CD/SpC (last one consolidating the middle books). This adds some Sorcerer/Wizard magic to the Healer, but this dabbling is mostly necessary and doesn't imply expanding the Healer's choice of spells (much like the Warmage draws from Druid but Advanced Learning doesn't grant more Druid spells).

Another word of advice: be wary if you introduce this variant and an Archivist is on play. Making these spells (specifically the Mass versions of Hold Person and Hold Monster) means the Archivist may acquire a way to add them to their prayerbooks. Consider this point very carefully, since although Hold spells are not exactly one of the most powerful spells around (mind-affecting, after all), it does imply that the Archivist still has a strong weapon on its hands. This also goes for Whelm, whose strongest spell can actually be a form of save or die.

ex cathedra
2009-11-28, 06:55 AM
I... like it.

I mean, I'm not sure if you've fixed all of healing's inherent troubles, but at least you've made a character that can truly heal well. You've included the wonderful spontaneous specialist casting, which I approve of entirely.

I'm of the opinion that it needs some offensive actions via spells, if only because not having the option whatsoever could become crippling in some circumstances.

Advanced Learning can do some very interesting things, to say the least. I'm not sure how it impacts the class as a whole, however.

Anonymouswizard
2009-11-28, 07:29 AM
I never saw the original healer, but I've liked what you did with the warmage. Maybe give it an ability to do something else, but as It stands, it should do its job.

EdroGrimshell
2009-11-28, 10:18 AM
I had something where a healer could drain the life of an opponent and store for healing their allies later.

Also, dreamscarred press has a class that connects multiple people and allows healing from one to be transfered to others. Sort of like the War Weaver's eldritch tapestry.

zagan
2009-11-28, 11:27 AM
An excellent retooling, a few thing:

Adding an example for Improved Healerís Blessing might be nice just to make thing clear.
If I understand right a 10th level healer casting Cure ligh wound would roll 6d8 instead of 1d8 (+5 + bonus from Healer's blessing of course)

Giving them something a 14, 16 and 17 migh be nice even if it's small. (Yes, I know they get a caster level, but still)
Fast healing would be nice, that way if they're target they last longer and it allow them to conserve spell or Healing hands for other.
Fast healing for Half their wisdom modifier perhaps ?

No real idea for the other level, a bonus to some skill like heal, diplomacy and handle animal perhaps ?

Apart from that as i said great job.

Siosilvar
2009-11-28, 12:38 PM
Typo in Healer's Blessing: "Divided by half" is the same thing as "multiplied by two".

Temotei
2009-11-28, 02:01 PM
Interesting. I only have to say that level 16 and level 17 are both dead, with only spells per day being added to the character. That's really boring. Perhaps just a bonus feat, if only to fill it with something.

Also, maybe you could improve submission strike later on to do extra nonlethal damage, similarly to the merciful weapon ability. It wouldn't be much, certainly, but still.

There were a few grammar errors, but right now, I'm feeling really lazy, so I might come back and point them all out later. For now, don't worry about it--they're not too bad. Certainly much, much better than a lot of other things that have been posted. :smallamused:

Cute_Riolu
2009-11-28, 02:37 PM
Typo in Healer's Blessing: "Divided by half" is the same thing as "multiplied by two".

I was going to mention that too. Blasted ninjas.

Violet Octopus
2009-11-28, 03:31 PM
I like this a lot (and I loved that you made a fix for the warmage).

At 14th and 16th level the healer gets access to a new spell level. Only 17 really needs something.

Perhaps it could do with a few offensive nondamaging spells. From a flavour point of view it's important to incapacitate an enemy so they don't hurt more people while you're healing the already-injured. Bands of Steel comes to mind, but balance-wise you might want to give nonlethal damage spells instead of save or sucks. I don't know.

Temotei
2009-11-28, 03:42 PM
Glitter! :smallbiggrin: Dust, that is.

T.G. Oskar
2009-11-28, 06:09 PM
I... like it.

I mean, I'm not sure if you've fixed all of healing's inherent troubles, but at least you've made a character that can truly heal well. You've included the wonderful spontaneous specialist casting, which I approve of entirely.

I'm of the opinion that it needs some offensive actions via spells, if only because not having the option whatsoever could become crippling in some circumstances.

Advanced Learning can do some very interesting things, to say the least. I'm not sure how it impacts the class as a whole, however.

Well, fixing healing so it can work as intended is difficult. The proper healing method would be turn all healing spells into swift action spells, but that would mean they would run out of spells fast and they'd be without actions to do. Still, it's considerately better than another kind of healer, even a Cleric.

It's hard to add offensive actions without overloading the class. Certainly, there are three dead levels around, but it's pretty difficult to add a truly offensive action. Perhaps I could count with the Whelm line, but that...works a bit different.

Advanced Learning's impact is roughly the same as the ability on the Warmage, Beguiler or Dread Necromancer: it allows a slight customization of the spell list. Choosing from both Cleric and Druid means you get a pretty different, yet considerable list, and expanding to Abjuration and Transmutation means you can choose from a quite diverse selection, including most staple spells of the Cleric. For example, Divine Power and Righteous Might are both Cleric Transmutation spells. Shapechange is a Transmutation spell. While it may seem like powerful spells for a Healer, consider the fact that they have little to no offensive actions, so you can safely add them and it won't do much impact. However, if you wish to add a different kind of spell, such as another buff (Deific Bastion, Divine Retribution), you can add them. The impact will really depend on which spells you choose, and how well you know the spell list of the Cleric or the Druid.


I had something where a healer could drain the life of an opponent and store for healing their allies later.

Also, dreamscarred press has a class that connects multiple people and allows healing from one to be transfered to others. Sort of like the War Weaver's eldritch tapestry.

Draining life usually is considered a less than moral act, so as a class ability it would seem odd. However, I do recall there's a spell floating around in one of the books (Eberron's Forge of War, I recall; spell is called Manifest Life) that does the same thing. Oddly enough, it's a Paladin spell so it's...weird. Adding such a mechanic would be a bit difficult to introduce, as it has to be pretty early and the first levels are quite overloaded. I will think of that, though.

As for the tapestry-like ability...you can work War Weaver to do the same. Will take some power of your Healer, but in the end it would provide a pretty solid benefit. So I don't consider it very important, given that by the time you get the mass versions of Cure X Wounds, you'll heal quite a lot more than doing the tapestry (and the overload in healing points, by that moment, turns into temporary hit points which is a bit more effective).


An excellent retooling, a few thing:

Adding an example for Improved Healerís Blessing might be nice just to make thing clear.
If I understand right a 10th level healer casting Cure ligh wound would roll 6d8 instead of 1d8 (+5 + bonus from Healer's blessing of course)

Giving them something a 14, 16 and 17 migh be nice even if it's small. (Yes, I know they get a caster level, but still)
Fast healing would be nice, that way if they're target they last longer and it allow them to conserve spell or Healing hands for other.
Fast healing for Half their wisdom modifier perhaps ?

No real idea for the other level, a bonus to some skill like heal, diplomacy and handle animal perhaps ?

Apart from that as i said great job.

For the first: it works as you intend. Consider that the main difference between Cure X Wounds spells is 1d8 + an increase in static cap of 5 per spell level, except on Mass CXW spells in which the dynamic dice reset. By definition and based on the original spells (without the class ability), the increase in average HP would be of around 9.5 HP per class level, and for Mass spells somewhat different. This is intentional, as it makes even the weakest of spells quite better, but it won't defeat Heal any time (and the bigger the HP restored, the bigger the chances are that you get temp. Hit Points).

As for the second: most of the class progressions are based on mathematical progressions. For example: Healer's Blessing and Imp. Healer's Blessing are on the first level, and then halfway through the class. Extension of Blessing increases every 6 levels. Advanced Learning increases every 4 levels. Healing Hands' next increase is 4 levels after, and the ability was meant to increase originally every 4 levels but as it stands it works quite well.

As they stand, 14th level would fall within Extension of Life, and 16th level would fall with Healing Hands. 17th is prime and it would imply an ability that could be reasonably good at that point. I don't intend on filling the class with goodies, but I can understand the dissonance on class abilities. The proposed idea of fast healing, however, has a slight difficulty: it makes Vigor spells pretty much useless (although they'll give a great service, that I can concede) once you reach 14th level (which would fit with the idea of Extension of Life). I'll think about it, but it should be something that won't compete with the strongest Vigor spell on equal grounds (considering Vigorous Circle is acquired only 2 levels before).

Now...if Extension of Life were to improve Vigor spells, that could be reasonable enough.


Typo in Healer's Blessing: "Divided by half" is the same thing as "multiplied by two".


I was going to mention that too. Blasted ninjas.

I noticed that just now. Big brain fart there. However, I'll fix it as it should be.

Which reminded me...I had to update something on the Warmage (which I did once I checked that out)


Interesting. I only have to say that level 16 and level 17 are both dead, with only spells per day being added to the character. That's really boring. Perhaps just a bonus feat, if only to fill it with something.

Also, maybe you could improve submission strike later on to do extra nonlethal damage, similarly to the merciful weapon ability. It wouldn't be much, certainly, but still.

There were a few grammar errors, but right now, I'm feeling really lazy, so I might come back and point them all out later. For now, don't worry about it--they're not too bad. Certainly much, much better than a lot of other things that have been posted.

First and foremost: grammar errors? I feel...appalled. Most people say I have a pretty solid grammar; perhaps too solid. I write this at night, and alone, even though I write it on Word (and pretty much transplant from it). The opening post was meant to refer to something else, so it may have intentional grammar errors.

Level 16th is a new spell level added, and it's 8th level, which holds some insanely good buffs. So I wouldn't say it's boring. Plus, Death Pact: most people would kill the Spirit Shaman because they have an ability like that.

And I admit it: level 17th is boring. It's meant to be boring. Difficult to work with prime numbers that won't get a nice further progression.

Merciful equivalent property for Submission Strike? I'd think about it, but it's pretty well loaded: I should make space in one of the Advanced Learning spots. They are...kinda boring too :P


I like this a lot (and I loved that you made a fix for the warmage).

At 14th and 16th level the healer gets access to a new spell level. Only 17 really needs something.

Perhaps it could do with a few offensive nondamaging spells. From a flavour point of view it's important to incapacitate an enemy so they don't hurt more people while you're healing the already-injured. Bands of Steel comes to mind, but balance-wise you might want to give nonlethal damage spells instead of save or sucks. I don't know.

Even levels except for 20 also get spell slots, and they get something (at times, something nice even!). That, along with the above statement, means 14th and 16th are actually better to work with than 17th.

As for offensive non-damaging spells...it's a tad difficult. So far, the only "offensive" spells they got are repulsion spells, which don't actually offend or anything. The only spells that come to mind are the Whelm line (and I'm surprised they aren't so bad for a Healer), but the problem is that it would involve opening yet another book for the Healer to draw with, and while it has a massive justification, it would imply justifying the entrance of other spells and that reduces the impact of Advanced Learning a bit. Even though Whelm is Enchantment.

Still, I could do well with a list of what would you consider good non-damaging offensive spells on the Cleric/Druid spell list from either Spell Compendium or Player's Handbook (since Complete Divine and Miniatures Handbook were subsumed into SpC) I could think of adding them, but most of the things I saw were pretty damaging.

--

In conclusion:
--I could use more ideas, or at least a mathematical progression, of an offensive action that could benefit the Healer without making it feel overloaded.
--14th and 16th could get something good, but considering that they work within the Extension of Life and Healing Hands parameters, or that are just so good that they deserve to be there. No Wishes or Gate, please.

For everyone that gave thanks, I give thanks back. Healer was a tad difficult considering it was meant not to be a powerful warrior, but rather the kind of class that few people would dare to play. It could certainly use some form of reasonable offensive, though (even I have to admit that)

ex cathedra
2009-11-28, 06:47 PM
Well, fixing healing so it can work as intended is difficult. The proper healing method would be turn all healing spells into swift action spells, but that would mean they would run out of spells fast and they'd be without actions to do. Still, it's considerately better than another kind of healer, even a Cleric.

Yes, I would certainly think so. It's quite admirable that you devoted this effort to a class based on an inherently flawed mechanic, and made some playable out of it. Purely defensive characters aren't my cup of tea, of course, so I'm not sure if I will ever get a chance to play one. It certainly looks nice to say the least.



It's hard to add offensive actions without overloading the class. Certainly, there are three dead levels around, but it's pretty difficult to add a truly offensive action. Perhaps I could count with the Whelm line, but that...works a bit different.
Understandably. Personally, I would do it via spells, even if it involved a stretch as far as adding Unicorn Arrow because it's thematic. :smallwink:



Advanced Learning's impact is roughly the same as the ability on the Warmage, Beguiler or Dread Necromancer: it allows a slight customization of the spell list. Choosing from both Cleric and Druid means you get a pretty different, yet considerable list, and expanding to Abjuration and Transmutation means you can choose from a quite diverse selection, including most staple spells of the Cleric. For example, Divine Power and Righteous Might are both Cleric Transmutation spells. Shapechange is a Transmutation spell. While it may seem like powerful spells for a Healer, consider the fact that they have little to no offensive actions, so you can safely add them and it won't do much impact. However, if you wish to add a different kind of spell, such as another buff (Deific Bastion, Divine Retribution), you can add them. The impact will really depend on which spells you choose, and how well you know the spell list of the Cleric or the Druid.

Yes, but the lists of those classes offer slightly different options. It's a subtle note, admittedly.

Like many stupidly written cleric buffs, Divine Power is actually
Evocation. Shapechange was admittedly the first spell that came to mind when I saw the ninth level slot AL.

Temotei
2009-11-28, 07:45 PM
First and foremost: grammar errors? I feel...appalled. Most people say I have a pretty solid grammar; perhaps too solid. I write this at night, and alone, even though I write it on Word (and pretty much transplant from it). The opening post was meant to refer to something else, so it may have intentional grammar errors.

Level 16th is a new spell level added, and it's 8th level, which holds some insanely good buffs. So I wouldn't say it's boring. Plus, Death Pact: most people would kill the Spirit Shaman because they have an ability like that.

And I admit it: level 17th is boring. It's meant to be boring. Difficult to work with prime numbers that won't get a nice further progression.

Merciful equivalent property for Submission Strike? I'd think about it, but it's pretty well loaded: I should make space in one of the Advanced Learning spots. They are...kinda boring too :P

The grammar errors are very little things, like this: "This ability only applies only to spells that..." So not bad, and far better than I expected, honestly. :smallbiggrin:

I'll admit that I missed the 8th level spells being added. So 16th level is good. But...yeah...17th is really boring. I trust in your ability to make some cool ability to make up for the less than awesome levels, though, because this class has some pretty attractive abilities.

Nice job. :smallsmile:

T.G. Oskar
2009-11-29, 06:17 AM
Yes, I would certainly think so. It's quite admirable that you devoted this effort to a class based on an inherently flawed mechanic, and made some playable out of it. Purely defensive characters aren't my cup of tea, of course, so I'm not sure if I will ever get a chance to play one. It certainly looks nice to say the least.

I understand that most people actually won't play it, but I present it as a choice nonetheless. I want to present a class that presents healing as a viable option, and not the task of a wand of 750 GP (since both CLW and Lesser Vigor cost that amount...) Since the healing boosters only apply to spells cast via the Healer's spell slots, the Healer can only become better at healing, even if it uses that lowly CLW spell.


Understandably. Personally, I would do it via spells, even if it involved a stretch as far as adding Unicorn Arrow because it's thematic. :smallwink:

Well...the Unicorn is absent (and I intend to make it absent, though I *might* consider an ACF that returns the unicorn for...say...Healing Hands?

Thing is, some of the best non-lethal offensive spells are either the realm of Book of Exalted Deeds or Player's Handbook II. However, given how people are suggesting more offensive options, I'll have to make the distinction and add at least the Whelm line (since all those spells are Enchantment spells)


Yes, but the lists of those classes offer slightly different options. It's a subtle note, admittedly.

Like many stupidly written cleric buffs, Divine Power is actually
Evocation. Shapechange was admittedly the first spell that came to mind when I saw the ninth level slot AL.

I noticed that, as a double take. DP is completely nuts as an Evocation spell, considering it grants an Enhancement bonus, which is usually the realm of Transmutation.

Righteous Might, tho, is Transmutation. Gate is Conjuration (creation or calling)

And yes, I also thought of Shapechange.

The idea behind Advanced Learning was always to prize the character that knew the good spells and chose them at the right time, as well as to make the spontaneous specialist spell lists different. However, it must conform to the class thematic. The original Warmage added only Evocation, since most people thought of it only as "the class with the blasty spells". WotC failed on realizing the better blasty spells are Conjuration, and that Contingency, Wind Wall and a few other spells are Evocation too. Thus, that had to be fixed (which I did on my Warmage retooling). When I dealt with the Healer, it had to follow a similar thematic, and with the experiences of the retooled Warmage, I chose for Abjuration (most protective and repelling spells are there), Conjuration (for healing spells), and Transmutation (for the bulk of the buffs) Finally, it's the best method to add new material for the spontaneous spellcaster lists (that they could think of...), as they are quite limited in scope.

While it may seem too subtle of a difference, a good player that chooses to become a Healer may find himself with five pretty strong spells. There are lots of good Cleric/Druid spells to fill those.

As for more examples: consider they have access to the Druid list as well. Recall the Bite of X spells? They're all Transmutation spells...;)


The grammar errors are very little things, like this: "This ability only applies only to spells that..." So not bad, and far better than I expected, honestly.

I'll admit that I missed the 8th level spells being added. So 16th level is good. But...yeah...17th is really boring. I trust in your ability to make some cool ability to make up for the less than awesome levels, though, because this class has some pretty attractive abilities.

Nice job.

As I said, I find it better to add an ability at level 14 or 16 rather than 17 because I can tie it up thematically with the other existing abilities. Adding something like a bonus feat is aesthetically unpleasing, pretty words to say "it's an obvious patch". By that level, a spellcaster already has 9th level spells (unless it's spontaneous), and class abilities (that don't progress exponentially as spells do) need to be considerably strong. Level 17th has those two difficulties, since the acquired ability should not be better than the capstone but not as flimsy as the abilities acquired earlier.

But I can trust to find a method that works. I'd, honestly, would love to add an expansion to the Aura of Protection ability, but the progression would seem stilted if it were expanded at level 17 (and not on an even level, or a mathematical progression; although, they would have a mathematical relationship if you know what I mean).

Eurus
2009-11-29, 01:46 PM
Very impressive, but I admit that I was sort of hoping to see a Death By Awesome ability in there somewhere. :smallwink:

brujon
2009-11-30, 09:11 PM
You asked for ideas as for offensive class abilities... Why not a heal-bomb ? When you have more than twice your regular HP, you explode in a brilliant positive energy explosion... Why not make that a class ability? Offensive heal on living creatures... That sounds nice :D

Bergor Terraf
2009-11-30, 10:30 PM
I had something where a healer could drain the life of an opponent and store for healing their allies later.

One way to do it that would still be acceptable : "passive life drain". Each time a living being loses HP in a violent manner, if it's within a certain distance of the healer, he regains 1/2/3 HP in his Healing Hands pool.


I could use more ideas, or at least a mathematical progression, of an offensive action that could benefit the Healer without making it feel overloaded.


One not give the class a few spells that incapacitate an opponent, a kind of proactive approch to the "Do no harm" saying?

And finally, another idea I think could be great to add a little spontaneity : "Shield". Has a swift action, the healer can spend HP from his Healing Hands pool to give damage reduction to an ally against a single attack. Start with a ratio of 3HP spent for 1damage reduction (or even 2 for 1) and increase it once in a while.


PS: Great job! I might atually play this class someday.

Galileo
2009-12-01, 01:47 AM
I really like this. If my group ever gets round to playing another gestalt game, I think I'll combine this with Warblade. That combo would be a better Paladin than a Paladin.

T.G. Oskar
2009-12-01, 03:38 AM
Very impressive, but I admit that I was sort of hoping to see a Death By Awesome ability in there somewhere. :smallwink:

Well...it's a Healer. It can't kill out of sheer awesomeness.

Now, reviving by sheer awesomeness? That can be provided!


You asked for ideas as for offensive class abilities... Why not a heal-bomb ? When you have more than twice your regular HP, you explode in a brilliant positive energy explosion... Why not make that a class ability? Offensive heal on living creatures... That sounds nice :D

That would be a risky endeavor. You'll be actually fighting against your own partners, most of them more than willing to cleave an enemy in half, to agree to your proposal and leave them doing nothing while you saturate with healing. Furthermore, it implies you'd be the only one doing "damage", aside from other spellcasters working with hindering or debuffing outside of HP.

Finally...HP scales at very uneven ways. You can expect that of most humanoid creatures with class abilities, but when you reach the d12 creatures, you're pretty much screwed on that point.

While overhealing could be a smart way to defeat an opponent, it requires too much in practice for it to work, and most of the time it implies using Gate, or somehow making a bubble out of the Positive Energy Plane as the main method. One false step, and the plan could be ruined.


One way to do it that would still be acceptable : "passive life drain". Each time a living being loses HP in a violent manner, if it's within a certain distance of the healer, he regains 1/2/3 HP in his Healing Hands pool.

That would be a nice way to work up as an aura, but it still wouldn't count as an offensive act for the Healer. Interesting point, even considering it has a progression that's pretty suspicious (it looks like a 4th Ed. progression)


One not give the class a few spells that incapacitate an opponent, a kind of proactive approch to the "Do no harm" saying?

Actually, I had someone that recommended the same thing. Going all the way to place Hold spells, since they would serve as non-offensive deterrents (as well as the Whelm line to aid on the lack of properly "offensive" spells and attacks). Given that Halt spells are pretty much available since Core, it's a good method to work up some offense.

Also, Healers *can* decide to do harm, if they believe it works to prevent more harm. Their spells won't aid with that (much), but they still can take a weapon and give a good whacking or two.


And finally, another idea I think could be great to add a little spontaneity : "Shield". Has a swift action, the healer can spend HP from his Healing Hands pool to give damage reduction to an ally against a single attack. Start with a ratio of 3HP spent for 1damage reduction (or even 2 for 1) and increase it once in a while.

PS: Great job! I might atually play this class someday.

That is an interesting way to look at it, reminds me of "Invest X Protection" spells that grant some Damage Reduction along with healing. Technically, temporary Hit Points work like a form of "damage reduction", as they are wasted before normal hit points, Extending that ability with some method of protection would be nice, but by the time it would be worthwhile DR already falters, compared to energy resistance and spell-based resistance which remains strong.

I still need to work on the right idea, but I will tackle either 14th, 16th or 17th level at one moment. On the meanwhile...I'll go and probably add some more spells to the spell list. Mmmm...Hold spells...

Also, thanks for the cheers everyone!

zagan
2009-12-01, 05:11 AM
I add another idea for an ability you might like.

How about some retributive healing, when they use a conjuration(healing) spell or their healing hand on an allie they also regain a a percentage of hit point themselves say 1/4.

That way they can spent more time healing the other instead of themselves.

T.G. Oskar
2009-12-01, 05:47 AM
I add another idea for an ability you might like.

How about some retributive healing, when they use a conjuration(healing) spell or their healing hand on an allie they also regain a a percentage of hit point themselves say 1/4.

That way they can spent more time healing the other instead of themselves.

Retributive healing looks pretty nice, but it requires being too low a level to actually work well. An Amulet of Retributive Healing, which is a simple 2000 gp trinket, offers that ability since 6th level. 6th level offers Extension of Blessing, which is quite powerful if you look at it, and makes retributive healing look pale in comparison. Besides, you can heal with other abilities, and by the time you get Mass Cure X Wounds, you can participate of the healing as well. That is...if they decide to hit you. Remember you have an aura that grants you effective, permanent Sanctuary, so you're not probably going to get hit that much, particularly on low-Will monsters.

However, that *did* inspired an idea. Something that could act as both an extension of Healing Hands, Extension of Life, and could solve a slight problem that the Healer has. How about...:

Retributive Healing (Su): At 17th level, a healer learns the outstanding ability to heal wounds at a moment's notice, from small and single to masses of fatally wounded allies. Her ability to do so is reflexive in nature, and allows her a great deal of manipulation on her craft.

Once per round, as an immediate action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity, a healer may use a conjuration (healing) spell or expend points from her Healing Hands ability whenever an enemy injures an ally, or herself. The ally must be within close range, and the healer must decide whether to activate the ability or not once the result of the damage is known. A healer may use any conjuration (healing) spell she knows that affects a single target, or expend as many points of her Healing Hands ability as she desires. She may also choose to use a conjuration (healing) spell that affects multiple creatures, but with two conditions: the attack must affect more than one ally, and only the injured allies receive the benefit (so if an ally within range of the spell was not injured, the spell has no effect on him or her). For conjuration (healing) spells, the effects of Healer's Blessing, Improved Healer's Blessing and Extension of Life apply.

Thoughts? Concerns? It's pretty powerful, but consider it *is* a 17th level spell, and it doesn't beat the capstone not even by a mile(stone)...

zagan
2009-12-01, 07:16 AM
I'm glad I've inspired something, and yes the ability seem nice it allow the healer to use their swift action for something (well immediate but it replace the swift action of the next round so it's the same thing).

deuxhero
2009-12-01, 01:46 PM
Move lesser restoration to 1st level (as Paladin).

Zeta Kai
2009-12-01, 02:12 PM
1) You have a peculiar number of Michael Jackson references. I count one in the thread title, & at least a dozen more in the preamble alone. Curious...

2) The class seems pretty good. It's not how I would go about building a healbot class, & it seems to have the potential to do a lot more than just heal, but I don't count either of those as bad thing necessarily.

Starbuck_II
2009-12-01, 02:57 PM
I see a Meatloaf reference, "Well...this is it. Heaven can wait."

They have no light armor proficiency listed. It says meduim armor and light shields...

Spontaneous casting? This was major issue of original Healer. They lacked it so a good fix.

Interesting: so as long as healer no attack someone she has sanctaury spell active (normally attacking anyone ends it against everyone).

I like that they can actually heal better than the cleric now.

Belobog
2009-12-01, 07:08 PM
I just wanted to congratulate you on this. It's a rare talent to create something that could be called a masterpiece, and I wanted to make sure you know that it's appreciated for what it is.

And the class is nice, too. :smalltongue:

Roderick_BR
2009-12-01, 09:10 PM
I LOVE THIS DOCTOR!

I like it, a lot :smallbiggrin: If you're bound to band-aid duty, you should do it WELL. And basing some stuff on the warmage/dread necromaber/beguiler, gave him the boost he needed.

Hey, a suggestion: Give him the ability to use Healing hands along others spells. This way he can cast a buff or dispell a weakening effect, and be able to heal some HP as well, so his actions are better used.

For the ressurrection effect, you should add a limit to risen allies, distance, number, and number of rounds they've been dead. Else, the group gets free-ressurrection. Even with the negative-level penalty, it's still a LOT strong. And that can quickly be cured with some less-expensive restoration spells.

T.G. Oskar
2009-12-01, 10:13 PM
I'm glad I've inspired something, and yes the ability seem nice it allow the healer to use their swift action for something (well immediate but it replace the swift action of the next round so it's the same thing).

They barely have swift action abilities (considering that some of the spells do have them), so it's pretty reasonable enough. Furthermore, it counters the trouble that spontaneous spellcasters have of being unable to Quicken spells without some aid. This is an ingrained method of healing when necessary, even though it's quite late in their progression (and even then, it's balanced for the level).


Move lesser restoration to 1st level (as Paladin).

Hmm...good point. They could use Restoration faster than usual. After all, they do get to use some healing spells earlier...


1) You have a peculiar number of Michael Jackson references. I count one in the thread title, & at least a dozen more in the preamble alone. Curious...

You're absolutely right. The thread subtitle is making reference to the few first lines of "Beat It" (much like the Warmage subtitle made reference to Doctor Strangelove).

The preamble is mostly composed of some of the singles released through the discography of MJ. Some are given (Thriller, Smooth Criminal, Beat It), some are a bit more obscure and also album titles (Unbreakable, This is It), some are oddly fitting (Heal the World, aka "We are the World! We are the Children!"), and some cleverly hidden (It Ain't Had No Sunshine, Young Pretty Thing, Remember the Time)

For the actual amount of MJ references, look in here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Jackson_singles_discography).


2) The class seems pretty good. It's not how I would go about building a healbot class, & it seems to have the potential to do a lot more than just heal, but I don't count either of those as bad thing necessarily.

Well, not everyone has the same idea on classes devoted to healing. I dealt with some of the problems of healing (specifically how weak they are compared to direct damage classes), but there are other points to address. So far, this is as much as I can work while allowing optimization to happen and improve the class. You can still use some of the tricks to make healing effective, and even make some use of the ones that were meant to make healing more attractive but didn't.

Also, it has a bit of potential already added. After all, it can buff quite as well as healing, and Extension of Blessing already makes buffs far better than their Cleric or Druid counterparts. A +1 may not seem as much, but given how the system works, that +1 can turn into +5 pretty easily.

But yeah, it could do a bit more. It all depends on how you work with it. It should work effectively out of the box, but you can mod it and make it better.


I see a Meatloaf reference, "Well...this is it. Heaven can wait."

They have no light armor proficiency listed. It says meduim armor and light shields...

Spontaneous casting? This was major issue of original Healer. They lacked it so a good fix.

Interesting: so as long as healer no attack someone she has sanctaury spell active (normally attacking anyone ends it against everyone).

I like that they can actually heal better than the cleric now.

1) It's more like "I apparently added a reference to a completely different thing while adding two references of the same person".

2) Blame it on my laziness. I should correct that. But, it's usually easy to deal with: if you have proficiency in medium armor, it is expected that you have proficiency on light armor.

3) Yup, spontaneous specialist casting. It fits the theme, considering they could serve as a counterpart to the Warmage. Which is odd, given that they experimented with different methods of Divine and Arcane casting, and they neglected the Healer on that one...

4) Yep. It's important for them until they get the ranged healing class ability, since they're expected to move through the battlefield, and Mobility just doesn't seem to work (much less being a clear target). This is an improved Sanctuary, however, given that it's meant to have a higher saving throw DC; it is reasonable to think said aura is discriminating as well. This makes the Healer capable of fighting without much trouble, given that they can choose their target and contribute to the fight without worrying about losing their defensive ability.

5) That...is actually the idea. Clerics aren't necessarily full-time healers unless you want them to be. Bards tend to be better healers because they can get one spell per spell level, and use the rest for the right spells. Or better, wands. I wanted to face that, so that having a wand of Cure Light Wounds would seem like a bad choice in comparison. It's not a bad idea to have one with a Healer, but in the end, the slots should be much more important...


I just wanted to congratulate you on this. It's a rare talent to create something that could be called a masterpiece, and I wanted to make sure you know that it's appreciated for what it is.

And the class is nice, too.

That's...well...I mean...

Mind if you wait for a second? I think my ego is about to take a flight... Gotta catch it and teach it some humility before it lifts higher ;)


I LOVE THIS DOCTOR!

I like it, a lot If you're bound to band-aid duty, you should do it WELL. And basing some stuff on the warmage/dread necromaber/beguiler, gave him the boost he needed.

Hey, a suggestion: Give him the ability to use Healing hands along others spells. This way he can cast a buff or dispell a weakening effect, and be able to heal some HP as well, so his actions are better used.

For the ressurrection effect, you should add a limit to risen allies, distance, number, and number of rounds they've been dead. Else, the group gets free-ressurrection. Even with the negative-level penalty, it's still a LOT strong. And that can quickly be cured with some less-expensive restoration spells.

Heh... Perhaps it would be lovelier with a cohort, a Guard's Box of Time Travel, and a Thundering Screwdriver ;)

I actually thought of that, perhaps as an enhancement to Healing Hands. In fact, for a moment, I thought about mixing Healer's Blessing and Healing Hands, as in making the pool enhance your healing spells. Maybe I'll revise it and add it later on.

The capstone actually has something I'm not sure if you've noticed. While the negative levels are temporary (and meant to prevent the Healer from losing its hard-earned XP), they can't be restored by any means during the time they are in effect, much like a Good character holding an Unholy weapon. That's meant to prevent spells such as Miracle, Wish, or Greater Restoration undo the effect. So, it's quite a double-edge ability, since if you heal an amount of people equal to your character level, you...die. And perhaps turn into a Wight. And negative level penalties are pretty painful. So, the negative level is the penalty the Healer gets for such a potent revival effect. Aside from that, it is intentional to have a 1/day free resurrection at 20th level; which is why it fits as a capstone.

Also, it's limited to 30 ft. So it's not like you can revive the entire world. Besides, even the original Healer gets that kind of free resurrection, even if it's pretty limited in scope (which is why it falters as a capstone) And finally, if your Healing Hands pool is less than 40, you're unable to use that ability for the day. It has already three restrictions, and the most important one is meant to make people think about resurrecting people at will. It builds on self-sacrifice and gift-giving, though.

TheLogman
2009-12-01, 10:52 PM
I read the Healer class when it first came out and was immensely disappointed.

I saw this thread title and though: "Better healing? If I was doing such a thing, I'd let the Healer heal more people at a greater distance, and for more dice."

I can see from my reading of it that you've included all of that plus some great expansions of the spell list and some nice abilities.

Very nice job.

T.G. Oskar
2010-08-28, 05:25 PM
Quoting myself from the Retooled Warmage thread.


Better late than never, but...

I decided to establish a new something after some careful consideration. This will affect the Warmage, the Healer, and any other spontaneous spellcaster I retool or create (this implies that if I retool the Favored Soul or Sorcerer, it'll follow this simple exchange).

So: prepared spellcasters gain access to new levels on odd levels, but the idea is that they take eons to learn the use of magic. On the other hand, spontaneous spellcasters (and this includes spontaneous specialists, whom learn a simpler and focused way to unleash their innate power) simply explode in power, with few to little training (aside from spontaneous specialists, such as the Warmage above), yet they gain their higher level spells later than prepared spellcasters.

Isn't that a bit ironic? Part of the lack of love is that spontaneous spellcasters get their spells one level late, and even one level late is punishing. With their very specific spell list and/or small list of spells known, there is absolutely no advantage to being a spontaneous spellcaster.

Thus, after pondering, I decided to have all of my homebrew thus far (and whatever comes later) hanging on a simple exchange. Spontaneous spellcasters (and spontaneous specialists such as Warmage) that gains spells as Sorcerers, Favored Souls and whatnot get their spells one level earlier, on odd levels. Meanwhile, any prepared spellcaster that gains spells as Clerics, Wizards or whatnot get their spells one level later, on even levels (so they won't get their first 2nd level spells up until 4th level). Any spellcaster that doesn't gain their spells in that way (such as Bards, Duskblades, Paladins, Rangers) keep their original acquisition rates.

Considered I might bump my work that way a small bit. Again, won't harm the Big 5 but it should even the playing field a bit.

stormywaters
2010-11-21, 03:27 PM
Sorry if I'm bumping an old thread, but I LOVE it! I always wanted to just play a healer/buffbot, and this is excellent!

I would like the Submission Strike to scale with damage, making the attacks more useful. You can knock them out quickly, but can't really kill anything well. \

Questions:

1. Aura of Protection - "A healer emanates a permanent aura that causes an effect identical to the Sanctuary spell..." Is it an actual aura, or still just personal. It would be cool if it was a 5-foot radius (or whatever) so it extends to adjacent allies, or perhaps any time you heal a character, they are also protected for one round (something similar).

2. Extension of Life - "A creature must be healed of a wound of at least half the creatureís Hit Dice in order to be affected by this ability." Explain, please. You mean a 6 HD creature must be healed for 3HP, or that it must restore half their total HP?

3. Spells - Which books are these spells found in? Are they ALL in the Spell Compendium, or is there a site/list I can find that details all the spells in one source? Am I stuck rooting through a dozen books tracking down the spells?

Thanks though! The class is amazing and it's perfectly what I wanted for a healing class.

Pyromancer999
2010-11-21, 03:44 PM
Awesome Job on this. Healer + Vow of Peace = Awesome

T.G. Oskar
2010-11-22, 01:21 AM
Sorry if I'm bumping an old thread, but I LOVE it! I always wanted to just play a healer/buffbot, and this is excellent!

I would like the Submission Strike to scale with damage, making the attacks more useful. You can knock them out quickly, but can't really kill anything well. \

Submission Strike is mostly a useful, yet gimmicky ability. The Healer is mostly a healer (forgive the redundancy) and buffer, so you'd mostly expect him to heal and buff. Submission Strike works if you wish to make an attack, but you aren't much of an attacker anyways (poor BAB, for example); increasing Submission Strike damage wouldn't make much sense on what amounts for a non-combatant, or at least any more than you can increase it by yourself (Merciful property, self-buffing, etc.)


Questions:

1. Aura of Protection - "A healer emanates a permanent aura that causes an effect identical to the Sanctuary spell..." Is it an actual aura, or still just personal. It would be cool if it was a 5-foot radius (or whatever) so it extends to adjacent allies, or perhaps any time you heal a character, they are also protected for one round (something similar).

It's a personal effect, except that it doesn't have an expiration period. It's a representation of how it's illegal for an army combatant to wound a medic, and highly unethical; in the sense of how the world works, this means a divine mandate to prevent enemies from hitting you while you heal or buff; it's not a protective buff to others. You can, though, dip into Combat Medic and get Healing Kicker (which does the same second effect you suggest).


2. Extension of Life - "A creature must be healed of a wound of at least half the creatureís Hit Dice in order to be affected by this ability." Explain, please. You mean a 6 HD creature must be healed for 3HP, or that it must restore half their total HP?

Half your Hit Dice, not half your Hit Points. If it were half your hit points, it would be a bit too abusive. The idea is to receive some healing so that Extension of Life kicks in, not to make a small prick on your finger and then receive a Heal spell for 200+ temporary HP at high levels. Hence, why you need a minimum amount of healing; it's so that you take advantage of healing, not to make it an exploit (though you still can exploit it; it's just that you need to be hit quite well for that.


3. Spells - Which books are these spells found in? Are they ALL in the Spell Compendium, or is there a site/list I can find that details all the spells in one source? Am I stuck rooting through a dozen books tracking down the spells?

I mentioned it on the spoiler description: Player's Handbook, Miniatures Handbook and Spell Compendium; also Complete Divine, but most of the spells in the latter are updated on Spell Compendium. Since most if not all of the Miniatures Handbook spells are also on Spell Compendium, you really need only those two books. So it's four books at most, but you can rely that you'll need mostly two.


Thanks though! The class is amazing and it's perfectly what I wanted for a healing class.

Well, that's what I'm hoping for. It still could make some work, though; it still has a dead level at 14th and another at 16th which I still haven't decided what to add. But it should answer some of the troubles of healing: heal at a distance, heal better and superior buffing.

Tacitus
2010-11-22, 01:30 AM
Half your Hit Dice, not half your Hit Points. If it were half your hit points, it would be a bit too abusive. The idea is to receive some healing so that Extension of Life kicks in, not to make a small prick on your finger and then receive a Heal spell for 200+ temporary HP at high levels. Hence, why you need a minimum amount of healing; it's so that you take advantage of healing, not to make it an exploit (though you still can exploit it; it's just that you need to be hit quite well for that.

Then you would mean Hit Points, if thats your intent. At level 20 half your hit dice is 10. Smack your entire party for 10 damage and then Mass Heal for 240 temporary hitpoints.

If you have to heal the target for half their total HP in order to grant temporary hitpoints then that means if you have 300hp and are at 149hp, hit by that same Mass Heal (assuming CL25, which isn't hard on Conj [Heal] spells) you regain 151hp and then gain 99 temporary hp.

Hell, you could hand out CLWs like candy to give temporary HP if you only need to heal half their HD. >.>

stormywaters
2010-12-16, 10:42 PM
Then you would mean Hit Points, if thats your intent. At level 20 half your hit dice is 10. Smack your entire party for 10 damage and then Mass Heal for 240 temporary hitpoints.

If you have to heal the target for half their total HP in order to grant temporary hitpoints then that means if you have 300hp and are at 149hp, hit by that same Mass Heal (assuming CL25, which isn't hard on Conj [Heal] spells) you regain 151hp and then gain 99 temporary hp.

Hell, you could hand out CLWs like candy to give temporary HP if you only need to heal half their HD. >.>

This is what I thought. Half your hit dice wouldn't be much heals at all.

I like the class a lot. The only reason I suggested the boost to Submission Strike is because buffing it would make those hits better, while not overpowering. It's not a big deal in any case, but buffing it wouldn't tip the class or anything.

T.G. Oskar
2010-12-17, 03:59 PM
Sorry for the delayed answer, in any case.


Then you would mean Hit Points, if thats your intent. At level 20 half your hit dice is 10. Smack your entire party for 10 damage and then Mass Heal for 240 temporary hitpoints.

If you have to heal the target for half their total HP in order to grant temporary hitpoints then that means if you have 300hp and are at 149hp, hit by that same Mass Heal (assuming CL25, which isn't hard on Conj [Heal] spells) you regain 151hp and then gain 99 temporary hp.

Hell, you could hand out CLWs like candy to give temporary HP if you only need to heal half their HD. >.>

Well, that was mostly the idea: you could use even Cure Light Wounds as a method of temporary HP. I guess what I really have to do is cap the amount of temp. HP you can get, because otherwise you'd get the Mass Heal trouble.

Using CLW to grant temporary hit points is a good idea, and hence why I wanted to use half hit dice (that way, with the increased amount of healing, all Cure Wounds spells would still be useful), but of course that goes with the dilemma that you could just use Mass Heal to grant a huge amount of temp. HP, kinda countering the point.

I was wondering to what extent I should top temp. HP, so that I don't see Mass Heal vigorizing and I can see a bit more CLW-vigorizing? That way, it's sorta like the best of both worlds; easy to execute, but the benefit is fair. Perhaps just make the threshold equal to your hit dice (because half your HP means CLW gets out of the question) but the temporary hit points are topped off in a similar degree (so that Mass Heal isn't used as a buff and more as proper healing).


This is what I thought. Half your hit dice wouldn't be much heals at all.

I like the class a lot. The only reason I suggested the boost to Submission Strike is because buffing it would make those hits better, while not overpowering. It's not a big deal in any case, but buffing it wouldn't tip the class or anything.

Again: it won't do much, and it will make Healers some sort of souped-up non-lethal damage dealers, which would split them off from their role. I find the spells are enough to deal with that situation. Not to mention, it'd be hard to provide a proper progression for that, AND you only need one or two knocks with your non-lethal strikes in order to get the enemy unconscious, so you don't need to constantly strike the enemy in that case. What worries me a bit more is to what extent, in any case I would agree with that, should it grow up and at which intervals, which aside from 14th and 16th are quite tightly packed with abilities.

Tacitus
2010-12-17, 04:10 PM
Nonlethal damage isn't really all that powerful. Against a fair number of foes it does nothing at all (undead and constructs being the big two), but unlike Precision Damage there are no published ways to get around immunities as far as I know. The options are Extra Nonlethal equal to level, which is a minor, minor buff that is almost forgettable unless you crit (which may cause problems with that heavy pick if you have proficiency XD); or a dice ever 2, 4, or 5 levels, likely not the size of a Sneak Attack because it's easier to get off or if only on the 5s maybe d8s.

I'd suggest extra d4s at evens or 4's or just use the extra=level with a caveat that it isn't multiplied on a crit (or just as a suggestion to DMs who use it to not let it multiply) if you are worried about that sort of thing.

gkathellar
2010-12-17, 04:27 PM
But it's a healer. It can deal nonlethal damage is because it should have the option not to kill people, but it's not supposed to be good at dealing said damage because its priority is healing not knocking people unconscious.

Let me put it this way: if it didn't have Submission Strike, would you think a regular damage boost was appropriate? Probably not, because healers aren't really hitters of guys, they're healers of guys.

Tacitus
2010-12-17, 04:52 PM
And that patient who is a little unruly? Perhaps he's Confused and you can't fix that safely without him being restrained. Fiction has plenty of healers who are decent at safely subduing their patients and are damn good at it.

And honestly, without the nonlethal I'd still support the extra damage because you know how things work and the best way to make those things stop working.

But thats not the point. After a while of keeping everyone alive, or even just when you get stuck by yourself, you're going to need that hand cannon to keep the mooks off your back. A few dice of nonlethal damage will let the healer have a minor place in combat just like the wizard who has to fall back on Fist of Stone and the like. It gives the option if absolutely necessary, but isn't game breaking because you're probably not going to hit anyone but mooks anyway.

stormywaters
2010-12-17, 05:54 PM
What about changing it so when you would deal damage you can reduce the damage dealt to improve your next heal?

Benly
2010-12-17, 08:15 PM
Alternately, give them the option to overheal people into unconsciousness, like Positive Dominant overload but less messy. :smalltongue:

gkathellar
2010-12-17, 09:30 PM
It's worth noting that they do already get the Whelm line of spells. The one that caps off with an Save or Lose.

Gideon Falcon
2011-03-12, 08:25 PM
*Applause* Well done. You've turned the Warmage into the best blaster class in existence, and now you've made the healer indisputably worthy of its name (although it could use a more imaginative one).

Tiniere
2011-11-27, 11:20 PM
Getting ready to play your Healer in a Homebrew setting. Excited to keep my fragile buddies standing against the horrible things our DM throws at us~

I've wanted a chance to play this retool since I first saw it posted and I am PUMPED! I'll post any feedback I get as the campaign progresses.

reddir
2012-05-18, 10:55 PM
I know its been a long time since this class was developed. However, I have been looking for a playable Healer-type for a long time, and now that I have found this I am eager to try it out.

That said, there are a few unresolved issues with this class, by the author's own posts.

1) The author suggested it would be a good idea to move Lesser Restoration to 1st level, as the Paladin. Do you still think this is a good idea?

2) The author states his intention to fill levels 14 and 16. Further, that 14 should fit with Extension of Life, and that 16 should fit with Healing Hands.
2a) 14th level, what if Extension of Life were to no longer require actual healing to trigger. What if the healer could just cast healing spells on a character with full hp and let them store up to an additional 50% or 100% of their normal hp total as temporary hp. (I know this is not very creative, but it seems to fit).
2b1) 16th level, what if you added into the formula for healing hands: "* Wisdom modifier"? Or added in "+[Heal skill ranks * 2]"? Again, not very creative, but fitting. Note that with either of these additions to the formula, you might want to change the requirements for the level 20 ability.
2b2) Alternatively for 16th level, the author mentioned an interest in Berfor Terraf's idea of a "passive life drain" aura, collecting hp from those in the area who are losing HP from some cause. Is the author still considering this?

3) The author once mentioned he thought the Advanced Learning abilities might be boring. How would you feel about replacing them with healing feats, such as Augment Healing, or Touch of Healing, or Metamagic feats. Or perhaps allowing for the continual maintenance of a Vigor-type spell for as long as the Healer maintains concentration?

peterpaulrubens
2012-05-19, 07:25 PM
If you're looking to fill a dead level, making Boundless Healing apply to Healing Hands would be a great place to start. Having played a Healer from 5th to 10th level, I can say that Healing Hands is underwhelming in most circumstances because it's limited to touch range. I mostly used it for out-of-combat healing where the touch-range standard action wasn't an issue. Otherwise it paled in comparison to the usefulness of Healer's Blessing + Boundless Healing.

I never playtested 17th level, but I suspect that Retributive Healing will be somewhat underwhelming, because Close Wounds was my swift/immediate action bread'n'butter, and Healers will have had that spell since 3rd level. I think I used more Close Wounds spells than any single other spell. I don't think Retributive Healing will be a "finally I can use swift actions!" feeling so much as a "finally I can just cast a 4th level spell as an immediate action instead of using a 4th level spell slot to cast a Close Wounds, because I ran out of 2nd level spells so long ago". Sure it'll be a nice ability, but I don't think it will be a watershed level (like, say, 10th level was with Improved Healer's Blessing).

reddir
2012-05-20, 03:28 PM
Another possible (optional?) replacement for an instance of Advanced Learning:

Death watch (Su): The Healer can tell how wounded another creature is, and how close this creature is to death, as long as this creature is within a [3 * Healer Class level] foot radius of the Healer.

T.G. Oskar
2012-05-20, 06:11 PM
1) The author suggested it would be a good idea to move Lesser Restoration to 1st level, as the Paladin. Do you still think this is a good idea

I'm torn between "not sure" and "oh, why the heck not?" The first is because the Paladin really doesn't get any other Restoration spells until 14th level, whereas Lesser Restoration is gained at 5th level (4th level with bonus spell slots, accessibility from 1st level) which is two levels higher than when the Cleric gets it.

On the other hand, the Healer gets various healing spells earlier, so having all Restoration spells acquired one level earlier really won't do much. So, it's a 50/50 chance.

Then again: Restoration and Greater Restoration are reduced to 1 level earlier, so...


2) The author states his intention to fill levels 14 and 16. Further, that 14 should fit with Extension of Life, and that 16 should fit with Healing Hands.
2a) 14th level, what if Extension of Life were to no longer require actual healing to trigger. What if the healer could just cast healing spells on a character with full hp and let them store up to an additional 50% or 100% of their normal hp total as temporary hp. (I know this is not very creative, but it seems to fit).
2b1) 16th level, what if you added into the formula for healing hands: "* Wisdom modifier"? Or added in "+[Heal skill ranks * 2]"? Again, not very creative, but fitting. Note that with either of these additions to the formula, you might want to change the requirements for the level 20 ability.
2b2) Alternatively for 16th level, the author mentioned an interest in Berfor Terraf's idea of a "passive life drain" aura, collecting hp from those in the area who are losing HP from some cause. Is the author still considering this?

a) That was how it was originally expressed, but if you see a bit later, you'll notice it's a tad TOO powerful, even by 14th level. That way, you'd just pump up all people with a Mass Cure Light Wounds spell before all battles, making all other spells that grant temporary HP useless. On the other hand, it's not unique enough for a 14th level ability, because it only grants temporary HP, so it doesn't turn into an extension of life.

It's pretty hard to create an ability for this level because something like granting temporary HP is already pretty powerful. Fast healing is an option, but as I mentioned, it makes the Vigor line of spells redundant. Likewise, a form of damage reduction as per Stoneskin is essentially the same effect as temporary HP, and it'd be a bit too awkward.

Then again, Extension of Life has to be revised. Considering the small threshold (you need to have between 1-10 HP less than maximum for it to kick in, yet going half your HD makes it almost non-existent), it's either exploitable or not that exploitable.

b1-b2) Healing Hands also has to be revised, to meet the standard of the Project Heretica Paladin's Lay on Hands (not to mention that of the Knight Hospitaller) and the Retooled Monk take 2's Wholeness of Body: both recharge at the beginning of each combat encounter. That way, 12th level and 16th level can be tackled better. Boundless Healing + Healing Hands would work well as either the 8th level ability or the 12th level ability. Alternatively, using the Healing Hands pool as a precursor to Retributive Healing but only for the Healer (i.e. using the Healing Hands pool to soak some of the damage dealt to the Healer) works well by 16th level, though it may be quite a bit powerful.


3) The author once mentioned he thought the Advanced Learning abilities might be boring. How would you feel about replacing them with healing feats, such as Augment Healing, or Touch of Healing, or Metamagic feats. Or perhaps allowing for the continual maintenance of a Vigor-type spell for as long as the Healer maintains concentration?

For starters: I never intended to say that the Advanced Learning ability is boring. Quite the contrary; it's very, very useful.

I did mention, however, that some of the levels that hold Advanced Learning were a bit boring. 3rd level and 7th level aren't so boring because of what follows: 3rd level introduces the ability, whereas 7th level adds Extension of Life to it. However, Advanced Learning works a lot like bonus feats: they are filler, they're great for a build, but they can't stand the weight of the level on their own.

Let me explain in better terms. One of the problems I find in most of the WotC classes is the weight each level has. I refer to "weight" as the degree of abilities the class grants at that level, and it's associated to the "tiers" of play (Gritty 1-5, Heroic 6-10, Wuxia 11-15, Superheroic 16-20, Epic 21+, Deific 40+). A bonus feat is good at the first few levels, because it helps support a build faster; however, by 6th level, bonus feats require a bit of oomph! to work out; something minor, like a bonus to Strength checks or damage against certain enemies or whatnot. By 11th level, you can introduce another progression to a class ability (say, Advanced Learning + the boost from Extension of Life) and they withstand their weight, or else they'd be considered virtually dead levels (as in, they don't grant anything but the advancement of a single ability; note that the Dead Levels article considers levels that grant only spellcasting progression technically count as dead levels); having two class features that progress at the same level "fill" the level a bit up, thus promoting growth in the class instead of PrC'ing out. By 16th level, a bonus feat and no other progression IS a dead level, because you don't gain anything worthwhile to deal with superheroic challenges.

Now, let's refer this to the Healer. By 3rd level, you get your first Advanced Learning, which counts for 1st level and 2nd level spells; this fills the level quite nicely. By 7th level, you get 3rd and 4th level spells as well, but choices may seem limited; however, you get Extension of Life which is formidable enough. 11th level only has Advanced Learning and nothing else, so while you get choices for up to 6th level spells, you don't get nothing much; you can, however, consider that when you get to 6th level spells, you get various high-powered spells such as heal, mass ability score boosters, and the chance for some potentially awesome buffs such as Bite of the Werebear that the level is almost full. That doesn't mean 11th level is a "full" level; it's just not overloaded. 15th level and 19th level, on the other hand, grant next to nothing, so they're awfully empty; they're not "dead" in the sense that you don't gain anything, but they aren't particularly spectacular compared to, say, the Factotum's ability to duplicate class features as a 15th level character or the ability to ignore death once per day. Thus, they are "boring" in that sense, but what you actually get (Advanced Learning) isn't, if only because you get extremely good spells that way (19th level AL nets you Shapechange, and that's probably one of the best spells you can get by that level, alongside Gate).

However, when I was worrying about dead levels, I was worrying primarily about levels with missing abilities, like 14th, 16th and to a degree 17th. Those were my focus (until I lost focus on the class and worked with other classes), and I'd like to fix those first before I begin handling those semi-dead levels.


If you're looking to fill a dead level, making Boundless Healing apply to Healing Hands would be a great place to start. Having played a Healer from 5th to 10th level, I can say that Healing Hands is underwhelming in most circumstances because it's limited to touch range. I mostly used it for out-of-combat healing where the touch-range standard action wasn't an issue. Otherwise it paled in comparison to the usefulness of Healer's Blessing + Boundless Healing.

I'm considering that, but not as a 16th level ability, because you should have access to it from earlier on. I still need to consider something extra useful for 16th level.


I never playtested 17th level, but I suspect that Retributive Healing will be somewhat underwhelming, because Close Wounds was my swift/immediate action bread'n'butter, and Healers will have had that spell since 3rd level. I think I used more Close Wounds spells than any single other spell. I don't think Retributive Healing will be a "finally I can use swift actions!" feeling so much as a "finally I can just cast a 4th level spell as an immediate action instead of using a 4th level spell slot to cast a Close Wounds, because I ran out of 2nd level spells so long ago". Sure it'll be a nice ability, but I don't think it will be a watershed level (like, say, 10th level was with Improved Healer's Blessing).

Recall that I considered that ability because I had nothing to fill it (or at least I thought I didn't had anything to fill it; Boundless Healing falls right into that slot), and that you can use Healing Hands to power it up, so you can heal the right amount of HP. Maybe using the Healing Hands pool isn't as useful because it doesn't have the range and it's a non-renewable resource, but if that can be worked, that 17th level ability might just punch through.

--

That said, lemme put here the ideas provided for purposes of consideration:
Removing the limitation on Extension of Life (contested before suggestion)
Healing Hands becomes 2 x class level x Charisma mod x Wisdom mod, or 2 x class level x Charisma mod + (Heal ranks x2)
Passive life drain aura (might break the "non-lethal" clause)
Apply Boundless Healing's range extension to Healing Hands
Revise Extension of Life and Healing Hands

reddir
2012-05-21, 01:13 PM
That said, lemme put here the ideas provided for purposes of consideration:
Removing the limitation on Extension of Life (contested before suggestion)
Healing Hands becomes 2 x class level x Charisma mod x Wisdom mod, or 2 x class level x Charisma mod + (Heal ranks x2)
Passive life drain aura (might break the "non-lethal" clause)
Apply Boundless Healing's range extension to Healing Hands
Revise Extension of Life and Healing Hands


Don't forget:
Death watch: The Healer can tell how wounded another creature is, and how close this creature is to death, as long as this creature is within a [3 * Healer Class level] foot radius of the Healer.

...unless its truly forgettable.


Also, what level would you say this now falls at in the class tier system?

Re'ozul
2012-05-21, 02:42 PM
Removing the limitation on Extension of Life (contested before suggestion)

I never really understood that limit with "half the creature's hit dice". Does mean a 20HD creature needs to have taken at least 10 damage or as much damage as 10hitdie would provide hp without conmod?
The second way would at least reduce the insanity of being able to drop a modified cure spell on someone and (most of the time) have most of that suddenly become temporary.


Healing Hands becomes 2 x class level x Charisma mod x Wisdom mod, or 2 x class level x Charisma mod + (Heal ranks x2)

Difinitely not the first one. If you were to even only start with 14 in both you'd have a limit of 32 at lvl 4. with a +4 to both with various means by lvl 10 you'd be at 320hp. and with a +8 in both at lvl 20 you'd have 720hp and that is with crappy stats.
Extreme normal optimization case: both are 18(base)+2(levels)+4(tomes)+6(item)=30 so +10 modifiers. Suddenly at lvl 20 your Healer has a limit of 4000hp which means 200 applications at maximum cost. Multiplying with several abilities just is very abusable.


Passive life drain aura (might break the "non-lethal" clause)

How would that work in fluff? I'd rather go with an aura that grants DRX/- within a small radius and can be focused on one ally as a swift action (so the aura disappears and the ally can gain the effect even if further out). Something like DR5/- OR increasing a creatures DR by 5 of the appropriate type (as DR is generally fluffed as instaheal i think). Aura of 20ft or focused up to 100ft. (perhaps with a capstone/epic feat of increasing DR to 10 and/or increasing aura to 40ft with the focused use being applicable to two allies at the same time).


Apply Boundless Healing's range extension to Healing Hands

While it may make sense I rather like the feel of having to lay hands on someone to channel your own energy into them in order to do what spells are not good enough to do.


Revise Extension of Life and Healing Hands

Extension of Life isn't bad. I'd consider it a bit overblown once you get heal or huge bonuses to your cure spells. I'd be for limiting the maximum temporary hitpoints gained based on max hitpoints. Perhaps: "you can't get more temporary hitpoints than half your normal ones as the body simply can't hold that much" that would reduce the potential of just giving mooks and hired meatshields serious bonuses.
For Healing Hands, the version with added heal ranks seems good though I really had no worries about the version as is anyway.

reddir
2012-05-21, 03:19 PM
Passive life drain aura (might break the "non-lethal" clause)
How would that work in fluff?

There are a few ways.
1) Healer's spirit is sensitive to the suffering, is preparing to heal some or all of the damage suffered.
2) The pain & severe emotion felt causes an unfocused release of life force, which the Healer's aura collects and focuses into healing power.
3) Some sort of ying/yang 'balance' concept.

I am sure there are other ways.

peterpaulrubens
2012-05-22, 12:26 AM
Also, what level would you say this now falls at in the class tier system?It's a poster child for Tier 4:


Tier 4: Capable of doing one thing quite well, but often useless when encounters require other areas of expertise, or capable of doing many things to a reasonable degree of competance without truly shining. Rarely has any abilities that can outright handle an encounter unless that encounter plays directly to the class's main strength. DMs may sometimes need to work to make sure Tier 4s can contribue to an encounter, as their abilities may sometimes leave them useless. Won't outshine anyone except Tier 6s except in specific circumstances that play to their strengths. Cannot compete effectively with Tier 1s that are played well.

Healers can heal like gang-busters, but can't do much of anything else. They could maybe "outright handle an encounter" if it's solely vs. a bunch of undead, but not any other critters.

reddir
2012-05-22, 01:31 AM
It's a poster child for Tier 4:
...
Healers can heal like gang-busters, but can't do much of anything else. They could maybe "outright handle an encounter" if it's solely vs. a bunch of undead, but not any other critters.


Wow, that explains a lot.

I am just getting started with a GM, new to me, online. Its like pulling teeth to get him to talk about or direct me on anything mechanical. And yet, he approved my class request within ~ a day....now I know why :smallsmile:

Yet, I do think T. G. Oskar gave the class some good secondary function as a buffer. I won't know about the 'Whelm' and hold line of spells till I try them out, but I think there will be enough to do to keep the class fun.

kingofportland
2013-11-10, 05:15 PM
Very well redone.

Morithias
2013-11-10, 05:21 PM
"She can cast any spell she knows without preparing it ahead of time."

That line alone makes me throw out this class.

Sorry I would take the miniatures handbook version over this.

Doxkid
2013-11-10, 06:28 PM
Very well redone.

You necro'd a bit.

"She can cast any spell she knows without preparing it ahead of time."

That line alone makes me throw out this class.

Sorry I would take the miniatures handbook version over this.

Uh...ok then? That's not much of an explanation or an argument, which is typically useful when explaining why a part of some homebrew class isn't your cup of tea, but it's nice for the rest of us to know I guess.
-----
I've always felt that Benediction kind of comes out of the blue; you focus on steadily improving your healing abilities with small, logical progressions up until you can suddenly Chain+Quicken True Res people at level 20.

I'm not entirely sure how to correct that though, since it doesn't lend itself to any obvious progression. Still, I would love to see that smoothed out somewhat.

AuraTwilight
2013-11-10, 06:31 PM
"She can cast any spell she knows without preparing it ahead of time."

That line alone makes me throw out this class.

Sorry I would take the miniatures handbook version over this.

What do you have against Spontaneous Casters?

Morithias
2013-11-11, 04:29 AM
What do you have against Spontaneous Casters?

Two words: Sanctified Spells.

JKTrickster
2013-11-11, 04:37 AM
Two words: Sanctified Spells.

:smallconfused:

You mean a set of spells only allowed to Prepared Casters, deal ability damage, and generally meh?

Well some of them are good (The Abjuration Mage Armor ones are kind of cool).


But still that's like....40 spells out of the thousands printed by WoTC. You swear off all spontaneous casters because they lose access to 40 spells? :smallconfused:

Morithias
2013-11-11, 04:41 AM
:smallconfused:

You mean a set of spells only allowed to Prepared Casters, deal ability damage, and generally meh?

Well some of them are good (The Abjuration Mage Armor ones are kind of cool).

But still that's like....40 spells out of the thousands printed by WoTC. You swear off all spontaneous casters because they lose access to 40 spells? :smallconfused:

I write off the healer because they loss access to 40 spells.

Those 40 spells are basically the healer's power to do anything BUT heal or hurt undead.

If you want to play a Lethal Joke Healer, you need those spells.

Just change the line to "Prepares spells like a cleric and can spontaneously cast cure/healing spells" and I'd take this class over that one.

I'm just saying, this class can't summon 4 CR 9 monsters to serve her for a year.

Edit: Also where the hell is the gate spell on her spell list?

Snowfire
2013-11-11, 05:03 AM
I write off the healer because they loss access to 40 spells.

Those 40 spells are basically the healer's power to do anything BUT heal or hurt undead.

If you want to play a Lethal Joke Healer, you need those spells.

Just change the line to "Prepares spells like a cleric and can spontaneously cast cure/healing spells" and I'd take this class over that one.

I'm just saying, this class can't summon 4 CR 9 monsters to serve her for a year.

Edit: Also where the hell is the gate spell on her spell list?

Really? Really?

Now, yeah, I could go on a long rant about how Sanctified spells really are nothing hip or neat. I could point out in detail how far this class blows the MH Healer out of the water in terms of ability as a tactical caster. But you know, I'm not going to. I'm just going to say one, cruically important, thing.

This class is designed for combat support. It makes in combat healing relevant again - if only marginally, sure - which is absolutely nothing to be sneezed at. And quite honestly, if you can't accept that ideal as valid then this class is not for you. Leave it here. And if you're not going to be constructive in your criticism beyond "Oh it doesn't get access to the spells I think are the basis of any successful divine caster (or whatever)" then don't.

Morithias
2013-11-11, 05:09 AM
Really? Really?

Now, yeah, I could go on a long rant about how Sanctified spells really are nothing hip or neat. I could point out in detail how far this class blows the MH Healer out of the water in terms of ability as a tactical caster. But you know, I'm not going to. I'm just going to say one, cruically important, thing.

This class is designed for combat support. It makes in combat healing relevant again - if only marginally, sure - which is absolutely nothing to be sneezed at. And quite honestly, if you can't accept that ideal as valid then this class is not for you. Leave it here. And if you're not going to be constructive in your criticism beyond "Oh it doesn't get access to the spells I think are the basis of any successful divine caster (or whatever)" then don't.

Except you forget.

The way you kill stuff in D&D, is NOT Hp damage. You use crowd control and disabling techniques. Blinding, paralyze, etc.

"Combat healing relevant again" is an oxymoron. The only reason combat healing would ever be relevant is if your opponents were fighting you using blaster tactics, and even then Mastery of Day and Night will probably serve you just fine.

I'm just saying for a "retool" it looks like a slightly more flashier version that's harder to optimize. Looks good on paper, but anyone who's actually studied the Healer's Handbook is going to recognize it as a crutch class.

Eurus
2013-11-11, 03:04 PM
This class is designed for combat support. It makes in combat healing relevant again - if only marginally, sure -


Except you forget.

The way you kill stuff in D&D, is NOT Hp damage. You use crowd control and disabling techniques. Blinding, paralyze, etc.

"Combat healing relevant again" is an oxymoron. The only reason combat healing would ever be relevant is if your opponents were fighting you using blaster tactics, and even then Mastery of Day and Night will probably serve you just fine.

I'm just saying for a "retool" it looks like a slightly more flashier version that's harder to optimize. Looks good on paper, but anyone who's actually studied the Healer's Handbook is going to recognize it as a crutch class.

It always amuses me to hear things like this, when Oskar commented a few times that in his playtests, it turned out that a specialized healer was capable of trivializing a not-insignificant percentage of encounters. :smallamused:

(That being said, I love this class quite a bit. Also, why did this thread get revived?)

T.G. Oskar
2013-11-11, 07:38 PM
(That being said, I love this class quite a bit. Also, why did this thread get revived?)

Because discussion is always welcome. Also: I don't recall ever using my Healer in my playtests. Just to clarify. I got data from playtests of other people, though.

Regarding Sanctified Spells: I find their loss somewhat justified, but not from a power perspective, but from a purpose perspective. Sanctified spells require an act of sacrifice (no issue there), and are pretty varied, with very few of them being actual healing spells (the main issue, even if Sanctified spellcasting has some good buffs, like Luminous Armor). Because of the purpose of the class (improve healing and provide the Healer with the ability to buff, which the original lacks sorely, and also improve buffing while at it), providing them with combat spells or summoning was entirely out of the question.

Following the reasoning why Sanctified spells are "a must": the main argument for Sanctified spells being a boon to Healers is because it allows them to do "something other than heal or hurt undead". Going through the spell list alone, it has a huge amount of buffing spells, so you're not only limited to healing or hurting undead. That said, if the goalpost is moved to "only healing, hurting undead or buffing", you can consider the Whelm line (and, as mentioned by gkatellar, "the one that ends with a save or lose spell") and the Hold line (part of "the way you kill things on D&D" since Hold is the premier method of paralysis in the game, and you end up having the Mass Hold Monster spell). You'd have to move the goalpost to "limited to healing, hurting undead, buffing, knocking people unconscious through nonlethal damage or holding", which essentially limits you to other methods of crowd control or causing physical damage. The first can be worked; the second? At the moment a lethal damage spell is added, you might as well consider dropping the class altogether and working a Cleric, because your focus is much wider than the target of the Healer.

Something to note is that the Healer wasn't really intended to use Sanctified spells, as the Book of Exalted Deeds only considers the base classes. The capability of a Healer (and by definition, an Archivist and a Wu Jen, because they're ALSO prepared spellcasters) to cast Sanctified spells happens by virtue of the general ruling, not because it's a specific class feature of them. The Cleric also casts Sanctified spells, and it can cast them spontaneously; why choose the Healer from Miniatures Handbook, which can't do its healing as well as it should, instead of a Cleric?

That doesn't mean the Healer lacks options because of the lack of Sanctified spells; you replace that with Advanced Learning, which adds Cleric and Druid Abjuration and Transmutation spells, from all books. Just from the PHB, you can choose Glyph of Warding (and its Greater version), Fire Trap, Changestaff, Control Weather, Chill Metal, Heat Metal, Entangle, Liveoak, Rusting Grasp, Spike Growth, Spike Stones and SHAPECHANGE; none of these are healing or buffing spells, or good only to hurt undead (and in the case of Shapechange, you've got virtually all the good buffs to make your assumed form all the best it can be). From the Spell Compendium, you get Holy Star, Symbol of Spell Loss, Earth Reaver, Lucent Lance, Stormrage, Animate Fire/Snow/Water/Wood, Blinding Spittle, Briar Web, Creeping Cold (and its Greater version), Heatstroke, Ice Flowers, Quillfire, Winter Chill...aside from the first spell, none are considered healing or buffing spells, as well. You get to choose 5 of those spells, but from those 5, you get as many uses as you'd get from having to spend your slots on the other Sanctified spells, and you can use their wands and scrolls (and make them, as well) normally. That doesn't count the wealth of actual buffing spells, or the remaining healing spells from the Conjuration (healing) line. While you don't get 40 additional spells (and no summoning spells at all, something that Sanctified does) to prepare, you get a large amount of spells to choose and cast spontaneously, with a much wider set of effects and no sacrifice component.

What I mean with all of this is: the changes compensate for the lack of Sanctified spells with the Whelm line, the Hold line, and the offensive options gained through the Advanced Learning class feature, but providing pure offenisve spells wasn't the focus of the retool; improving in-combat healing and providing superior buffing capabilities, on the other hand, does. If the point is that "I don't get Sanctified spells nor Gate, thus the class sucks", then the counterpoint should suffice (aside from the lack of Calling Summoning spells, though Changestaff and Liveoak provide creatures that can fight for you). If the point remains despite the counterpoint, then there's little else to do; it'd force the Healer to move outside its focus, and if that happens, there's little that distances it from a Cleric (because you don't care about healing at all, aside from out-of-combat healing, which is one of the key purposes of the retool).

As a final point: while it lacks most crowd control spells, if you consider a buffer to be a crutch character, then that means the "God" method of playing a Wizard (which involves solving problems and letting your allies think they solved them) is inherently flawed, even if it works on practice. Considering it also has some crowd control spells (even if spells like Repulsion, Antipathy, Rejection, the Whelm and the Hold lines ARE crowd control), and Advanced Learning grants the option of crowd control and/or damage spells, a savvy player may make good use of the Healer retool.

Eurus
2013-11-11, 10:50 PM
Because discussion is always welcome. Also: I don't recall ever using my Healer in my playtests. Just to clarify. I got data from playtests of other people, though.

That's odd, for some reason I could have sworn I remembered something along those lines from you. Apologies, didn't mean to misquote you.