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Hal
2009-12-02, 11:22 AM
So, we've got a fighter article today. My gaming group is debating the new feat, Weapon Mastery. Requires Weapon Expertise and Weapon Focus. It grants you the benefits of both feats for all weapons with which you are proficient.

Some of the guys are arguing it's overpowered. Some that it just keeps multi-weapon fighters from having to spend a bunch of feats if they use more than one weapon, or switch weapons mid-campaign.

Thoughts?

Edit: I originally called Weapon Mastery a fighter feat, but it's actually for anyone.

tcrudisi
2009-12-02, 11:33 AM
How would that feat be considered overpowered? Most players try to stick with one weapon anyway. This feat still costs them a feat, so it's not as if they are getting it for free. Really, this feat just helps out people who want to use multiple weapons. And even then, players who want to use multiple weapons tend to stick with one as their primary, so this will just assist them when they have to switch off.

Or, basically, if they use their primary weapon 2/3 of the time, then this feat is exactly as valuable as the previous two. When I see players with multiple weapons, they don't even use their secondary weapon 1/3 of the time, meaning that, if anything, this could be a trap feat.

(Although still very useful for double-weapon players... but they needed the help and I really like this feat for them).

Kurald Galain
2009-12-02, 11:34 AM
Doesn't sound overpowered to me. Switching between different weapon types isn't such a great tactic in 4E anyway.

Guinea Anubis
2009-12-02, 11:40 AM
sounds fin to me, I know most of my players pick one kind of weapon and stick with it.

Dekkah
2009-12-02, 11:41 AM
I seem ok to me as well. I kinda agree that most people stick to their weapon of choice.
The use i see to it is the rare occasion where you switch to ranged basic attack (as a melee class - against a flying monster) to get the bonus to an heavy thrown weapon (if that weapon isnt already of you expertise/focus type).

Yakk
2009-12-02, 12:18 PM
As I am included to give Weapon Focus/Weapon Expertise as free feats (as I don't find them "interesting" choices), I sure don't think it is overpowered.

It also makes double weapons that are non-homogeneous better (urgosh has the problem that if you have weapon expertise (spear), you suck at the axe end, and vice versa -- although, focused expertise gets around that for the expert feat...)

Mando Knight
2009-12-02, 12:41 PM
It also makes double weapons that are non-homogeneous better (urgosh has the problem that if you have weapon expertise (spear), you suck at the axe end, and vice versa -- although, focused expertise gets around that for the expert feat...)

Mostly this. It sounds bad at first, but then you remember that most characters usually stick with one type of weapon, with the possibility of a ranged weapon for backup. Weapon Master simply allows a character to switch from his javelin to his sword easily, like in the good old days (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Empire).

Jack_Banzai
2009-12-02, 12:48 PM
I think it would be fun to grab this feat, then get me a dynamic weapon for all kinds of stupid reasons. "Grab him, he's only got a dagger!" "Uh... howzabout a Greatsword in your face?"

Kylarra
2009-12-02, 12:56 PM
I think it's a cool feat, and our paladin would probably pick it up. He's already started picking up every single melee magic weapon we come across and keeping them in a "golf bag" anyway.

Mando Knight
2009-12-02, 01:00 PM
I think it's a cool feat, and our paladin would probably pick it up. He's already started picking up every single melee magic weapon we come across and keeping them in a "golf bag" anyway.
Does he have a good caddy?

Hal
2009-12-02, 01:04 PM
I think it's a cool feat, and our paladin would probably pick it up. He's already started picking up every single melee magic weapon we come across and keeping them in a "golf bag" anyway.

Is his name Casey Jones?

In any case, I used to play a rogue with a hand crossbow in one hand and a rapier in the other. This sort of feat would be very useful for him.

In retrospect, the only one arguing it's broken is my DM, and he's pretty anal about player advantages. I guess he WANTS you to spend 4 feats to be fully proficient with both of your chosen weapons.

DSCrankshaw
2009-12-02, 01:28 PM
I didn't even notice that feat. It might be useful for assassins, whose ki focus lets them get the same magic bonus with any weapon, so the main issue with using any weapon they can get their hands on are focus and expertise bonuses.

erikun
2009-12-02, 03:11 PM
Some of the guys are arguing it's overpowered. Some that it just keeps multi-weapon fighters from having to spend a bunch of feats if they use more than one weapon, or switch weapons mid-campaign.
So spending three feats to get the benefit of two feats is overpowered, because the character isn't spending more feats than normal? :smallconfused:

I mean, even ignoring that most characters can't afford to run around with several +5 weapons... even ignoring that the feats are mostly a math-patch in the attack vs. AC run... even ignoring that most characters only use one weapon anyways...

Is this really a problem? Is being compotent in more than one weapon - like, say, a Weapon Master - really that unbalancing? :smallbiggrin:

tbarrie
2009-12-02, 06:21 PM
I didn't even notice that feat. It might be useful for assassins, whose ki focus lets them get the same magic bonus with any weapon, so the main issue with using any weapon they can get their hands on are focus and expertise bonuses.

That's assuming Assassins can take it, though. It doesn't explicitly mention Fighter as a prerequisite, but is in a section labelled "Heroic Tier Fighter Feats" (emphasis mine), so who knows what the intent is?

tcrudisi
2009-12-02, 09:39 PM
That's assuming Assassins can take it, though. It doesn't explicitly mention Fighter as a prerequisite, but is in a section labelled "Heroic Tier Fighter Feats" (emphasis mine), so who knows what the intent is?

The last time that happened, we spent about 6 or 8 months thinking that Reaper's Touch was good for non-Shadar Kai. Boy were we fooled in the end. I think it's going to be a Fighter-only feat in the end, even if it does take them a few months to finally make that clear.

Jack_Banzai
2009-12-03, 12:47 PM
The feat is available for all classes. From what I hear.