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TalonDemonKing
2009-12-03, 03:51 PM
A bag of endless caltrops costs 2,300 gold market value, or 1150 when created.
Caster level needs to be 9th, and needs to know Secret Chest, a 5th level wiz/sorc spell.

Is it just me, or does this seem excessive for an object that costs 1g per use? Currently I'm trying to reverse engineer a formula for an endless container of X, using the Pathfinder Magic rules creations. Of course, there isn't a specific example ever given within Pathfinder, nor does the table on page 550 help much.

So onto the questions:

1) How would one going about creating a {Container} of endless {Object}. The forumla I'm thinking is 2(CL * SL * 750), which should equal the value of endless Spell, if I read the rules correctly

2) How much does water cost? I couldn't find this anywhere :smallconfused:. I was trying to see how much 'Money' that you'd get if you bought the water summoned by Create water.

3) The purpose of this exercise to make a 'Rogue 'Cloak'', an object with unlimited resources of stuff like space, lockpick sets, and many mundane and alchemical objects. If you have any suggestions for stuff to add, please let me know.

4) Are there any other variants of Thunderstones (Firestones, Icestones, Windstones?) And if so, where are they located.

Thanks in advance
-Talon

List of what I'm thinking about having as apart of the cloak (Think Robe of Many Items, 'scept for rogues. And uber.)
Caltrops
Chain
Chalk
Crowbar
Grappling Hook, Collapsable
Hammer
Mirror, Small Steel
Oil, pint
Pole, collapsable
Rope, Hemp (50ft)
Shovel
Soap
Spyglass
Acid(Flask)
Alchemist's Fire(Flask)
Anti-toxin(vial)
Smoke stick
Sunrod
Tanglefoot bag
Thunderstone
Tindertwig
Climber's Kit
Disguise Kit
Thieves' tools, Masterwork
Dust of Appearance
Dust of Dissapearance
Dust of Dryess
Dust of Illusion
Dust of Tracelessness
Elixir of Fire Breath
Elixir of Hiding
Elixir of Swiming
Elixir of Tumbling
Elixir of Vision
Eversmoking Bottle
Handy Haversack
Rope of Climbing
Salve of Slipperiness
Silversheen
Sovereign Glue
Universal Solvent
Ascender/Slider
Bolt Cutters
Crane, Portable
Earplugs
Finger blades
Game board
Glass Cutter
Hacksaw
Magnet, Small
Marbles
Periscope
Pulley
Shriek Rock
Snorkel
Snow Goggles
Spring wall
Candle, Focusing
Candle, Restful
Clearbreath
Darkvision Powder
Defoliator
Dwarfblind
Farflame Oil
Fleetfoot
Ghost Oil
Gravebane
Instant Rope
Longbreath
Motelight
Nature's Draught
Signal Torch
Sparkstone
Stonebreaker Acid
Verminbane
Blend Cream
Flash Pellet
Healer's Balm
Fareye Oil
Keenar Powder
Freeglide
Lockslip Grease
Softfoot
Suregrip
Camoflauge Kit
Forgery Kit
Blast Disk
Black Eye
Oleum
Slumber Sand
Ashworm Pellet
Bottle of Endless Sand

drengnikrafe
2009-12-03, 04:01 PM
Time for good ol' "Drengnikrafe's 'I'm trying to be helpful, but only doing a mediocre job'" hour post.

1) That stikes me as an exceptionally dangerous thing. I think the thing that "(A) of endless (B)" is attempting to prevent is making money. If I give my 25 year old elf a bag of infinite caltrops at first level, and then have him adventure at age 600, and he always gets the caltrops when they're available, and sells them all... Well, you just don't want to get carried away. Not to mention... how useful is an infinite number of any reasonable item, anyway? My impression was it's mostly for people who use them regularly, but don't want to keep track of obnoxious amounts of numbers.

2) Water is fairly common. I don't imagine it should cost too much.

3) My people have a "Adventurer's Kit". It costs 100 gp, and has everything on the mundane items list under 12 gp. It's to save time and effort, and for more clever solutions. But then, I don't track encumberance.

4) Why would there be? Thunder is a loud noise. You may be thinking of lightning, in which case... Umm... alchemist's fire?

Draxar
2009-12-03, 10:26 PM
The only decanters of endless blah's I'm aware of are all stuff that is broadly speaking 'worthless' – air, water, and sand.

There are specific situations where each of those are useful and valuable. But as a base thing, they're not.

Anything that the thing makes, that persists, has to have zero value in that kind of way. If it makes stuff that only lasts a set time – thunderstones that disappear in 10 rounds, lockpicks that go after a day – then that's rather more reasonable.

sonofzeal
2009-12-03, 10:31 PM
I recently got an Endless Feather Token: Acorn. When used, it disappears like normal but the tree sprouts one Endless Feather Token: Acorn. The DM charged me 8000 for this, and I think I got ripped off, but it's still fun.

gallagher
2009-12-04, 01:01 AM
i would make a bucket of endless chicken legs. (i just happen to be looking at a kfc bucket cuz my roommates dont clean. but then again, neither do i)

as i understand it, to become a god, one must have an obscene amount of followers. how would i gain so many followers? by finding all the poor and wretched of society and feeding them so they may feel full for the first time in their life.

TalonDemonKing
2009-12-04, 02:20 AM
Anything that the thing makes, that persists, has to have zero value in that kind of way. If it makes stuff that only lasts a set time thunderstones that disappear in 10 rounds, lockpicks that go after a day then that's rather more reasonable.

Right, as per the create Water spell for PF clerics, which has the water only last 24 hours.

2,300gp market price for a bag of endless caltrops. From there, 1,150 should be the base price.

Assuming that we're using the unlimited wand method of creating this, then we're looking at 2(CL X SL X 750) = 1,150.

1,150 / 2 = 575, 575/750 = .76

So we get CL X SL = .76. A first level caster casting a 0 level spell gives us .5, while a 1st level casting a 1st level spell gives us 1. Our value falls somewhere between that, so I'll use the higher value.

2(1 x 1 x 750) = 1,500

A bit more than the cost originally, but its a good start. Unfortunantly, 'Caltrops' is not a spell, and is hard to measure via spell level.

I'm thinking I'm going to need some abstract formula using a spell, the cost of the item, and probably some other stuff before I can get a good baseline, but its 1:30am for me. More to come in the morning.

Draxar
2009-12-04, 08:06 AM
A bit more than the cost originally, but its a good start. Unfortunantly, 'Caltrops' is not a spell, and is hard to measure via spell level.

Spell compendium has caltrops as a cantrip. Temporary ones.

Though I still say anything of value shouldn't persist.

Ormur
2009-12-04, 09:57 AM
You can just fluff it so that you bag of endless 10ft poles or whatever only provides a thousand poles (or a hundred or whatever is cost appropriate) and when you draw pole number 1001 the first discarded one disappears and rematerializes in your bag and is automatically fixed if something happened to it, so you'll always have an endless supply of stuff but at any given time there will only be a limited number of those things out of the bag.

If your players aren't abusing it to screw the economy they'll never notice.

Gravitron5000
2009-12-04, 10:04 AM
i would make a bucket of endless chicken legs. (i just happen to be looking at a kfc bucket cuz my roommates dont clean. but then again, neither do i)

as i understand it, to become a god, one must have an obscene amount of followers. how would i gain so many followers? by finding all the poor and wretched of society and feeding them so they may feel full for the first time in their life.

Why not just cut out the middleman and create a bag of endless followers?

Sliver
2009-12-04, 10:18 AM
If your players aren't abusing it to screw the economy they'll never notice.

I don't think it will take that long 'till it happens..

Telonius
2009-12-04, 10:31 AM
2) Water is fairly common. I don't imagine it should cost too much.



That really depends on the setting. If you're near a river or a lake or have a reliable supply of rainfall, it's trivial. If you're in the middle of a blazing desert or on a ship with plenty of undrinkable saltwater all around you, it might be as valuable as life itself.

gallagher
2009-12-04, 12:12 PM
Why not just cut out the middleman and create a bag of endless followers?
pardon me for my ignorance, but how would that help?

MightyIgoo
2009-12-04, 12:19 PM
I recently got an Endless Feather Token: Acorn. When used, it disappears like normal but the tree sprouts one Endless Feather Token: Acorn. The DM charged me 8000 for this, and I think I got ripped off, but it's still fun.

Have you tried throwing/shoving the feather token down the throat of a creature, then activating it? Instant mob-kabob. An acorn feather token is never a bad choice, an infinite one, even less so!

drengnikrafe
2009-12-04, 02:00 PM
pardon me for my ignorance, but how would that help?

"Yes, master. My body, and will, are yours to defile."

How would an infinite number of follower NOT help? Trapfinding, monsterbait, human sheild (granting AC bonuses AND concealment), suspicious-item-toucher... it'd be like an item of infinite telekinesis, except even better.

Gravitron5000
2009-12-04, 03:02 PM
as i understand it, to become a god, one must have an obscene amount of followers. how would i gain so many followers?


Why not just cut out the middleman and create a bag of endless followers?


pardon me for my ignorance, but how would that help?

You asked for followers ...

AirGuitarGod32
2009-12-04, 04:24 PM
I don't remember how long ago, but I was in a campaign with an Ogre who carried a "Bag of infinite Halflings" as his weapon. He threw halflings at monsters. The halflings' said hilarious things as he threw them at monsters. Thats what one gets for an Ogre Hulking Hurler/ War Brute

Mark Hall
2009-12-04, 05:09 PM
Bucknard's everfull purse. Wonderful item.

TalonDemonKing
2009-12-04, 09:42 PM
What book is Bucknard's everfull purse in?
------

Items summoned from the bag have a 24 hour duration. Unabled to be sold, the items simply are there to served their functions, and thats it. I'm not here to wreck economy, I'm here to get caltrops/alchemist fire/thunder stones/whatever and I won't have to continuously restock them.

Also, thanks Draxar, I'll look into this.

Still need the pricing for water -- Assuming a normal DnD setting (Water is plentiful, not desert like).

hewhosaysfish
2009-12-05, 10:11 AM
You can just fluff it so that you bag of endless 10ft poles or whatever only provides a thousand poles (or a hundred or whatever is cost appropriate) and when you draw pole number 1001 the first discarded one disappears and rematerializes in your bag and is automatically fixed if something happened to it, so you'll always have an endless supply of stuff but at any given time there will only be a limited number of those things out of the bag.

Is there something wrong with me that I immediately thought: "So it's a Bag of Endless 10-ft Poles and a Bag of Endless Pole-Fixing, too. What can I do with pole-fixing? How can I profit by repeatedly damaging poles? Burn them for firewood?"
But there's not much profit in fire-wood. Best to just sell 1000 10-ft poles in every town you pass through. Just be sure not to pass through again after you've sold them all again in the next town.


If your players aren't abusing it to screw the economy they'll never notice.

If they weren't trying to screw the economy, would it still be a problem if it were truly infinte?