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EdroGrimshell
2009-12-04, 07:08 PM
I am trying to come up with a witch style class using the spell list from the DMG. It is based on the sorcerer but has a few class features to cope for the reduced spell list.

The trouble is coming from the class features. I see a witch as a sorcerer crossed with an alchemist, illusionist, and druid. So my first reaction was a familiar that is more powerful than normal (more akin to an animal companion), the ability to brew potions and make them more efficiently, and Expanding the spell list using complete arcane, complete mage, and the spell compendium.

Asbestos
2009-12-04, 07:18 PM
I am trying to come up with a witch style class using the spell list from the DMG. It is based on the sorcerer but has a few class features to cope for the reduced spell list.

The trouble is coming from the class features. I see a witch as a sorcerer crossed with an alchemist, illusionist, and druid. So my first reaction was a familiar that is more powerful than normal (more akin to an animal companion), the ability to brew potions and make them more efficiently, and Expanding the spell list using complete arcane, complete mage, and the spell compendium.
Familiar: Perhaps give them Improved Familiar as a bonus feat.
Brewing Potions: Give them Brew Potion as a bonus feat, possibly let it improve as they level allowing for higher level spells to be converted into potions.
Spell List: Add whatever you think is thematic.

Caldarin
2009-12-04, 07:28 PM
Or, and I'm not sure if this would be too powerful
give them wildshape- strong connection to the natural world and all

TabletopNuke
2009-12-04, 07:33 PM
The reason the witch has a reduced spell list is because it has more utility (according to the DMG, the list is balanced, though I've never playtested it). However, this certainly doesn't mean you can't alter the class features.

You could start by replacing the simple weapon proficiencies with the more restrictive wizard weapon proficiencies, as well as the wizard bonus feat progression (which includes the option of Brew Potion at 5th level or higher).

If you wanted the witch to specialize in alchemy and potions, Scribe Scroll could be replaced with Skill Focus (Alchemy). At 3rd level, the witch could get Brew Potion as bonus feat. After that, the remaining bonus feats would be replaces with the various Artisan feats from the Eberron Campaign Setting book, which allow the character to create magic items with less time, XP, and gold. If this interests you I can elaborate.

Unearthed Arcana does provide a sorcerer/wizard variant that replaces the standard familiar with an animal companion (effective druid level equal to 1/2 class level). However, I feel that the standard familiar already fits the standard witch archtype perfectly. That's what it was based on, after all. When people think "witch", they think black cats, ravens, owls, bats, and rats, not wolves, horses, or bears.

How do these suggestions sound?

EdroGrimshell
2009-12-04, 08:57 PM
Abestros: I think most of that is a given, could you offer a few suggestions for the spell list. The DMG labels the basics for the spell list before the actual spell list.

Caldarin: I will not be implementing wild shape in this build, every game i play its mandatory to have the shapeshift variant instead.

TabletopNuke: These are all really good ideas, i will go for the brew potion as a bonus feat, as well the wizard weapon selection. Also, i wasn't thinking on the familiar being an animal companion, just more powerful.

olelia
2009-12-04, 08:59 PM
Pathfinder currently has its own witch class which has lower casting, hexing, and improved familiars if it gives any basis to what you are looking for.

http://paizo.com/store/downloads/pathfinder/pathfinderRPG/v5748btpy8bka

TabletopNuke
2009-12-04, 09:32 PM
Also, i wasn't thinking on the familiar being an animal companion, just more powerful.
Powerful in what regard?

If you have fantastic creatures like imps and pseudodragons in mind, Improved familiar could be a class feature.

If you wanted to stick with the standard witch theme, the standard familiar could gain the celestial/fiendish (anarchic/axiomatic/pseudonatural) template at a particular level. If you like this idea, I could easily whip up a similar template without the alignment component.

Latronis
2009-12-04, 10:04 PM
Powerful in what regard?

If you have fantastic creatures like imps and pseudodragons in mind, Improved familiar could be a class feature.

If you wanted to stick with the standard witch theme, the standard familiar could gain the celestial/fiendish (anarchic/axiomatic/pseudonatural) template at a particular level. If you like this idea, I could easily whip up a similar template without the alignment component.

No need for that the templates already exist and the precedent already exists:

From fiendblooded(HoH)
Fiendish Companion: Your familiar benefi ts from your
fi endish heritage. The fi endish template (described on page
108 of the Monster Manual) can be applied to your familiar,
if you so desire. Since this is not possession but rather a
sympathetic link, the familiarís alignment need not shift
to evil.

From alienist(Comp. Arcane)
Pseudonatural Familiar: Beginning at 5th level, an alienistís familiar,
if any, gains the pseudonatural template
(see page 160) in addition to the powers and abilities normal
for a familiar of the appropriate level. This effect does not
replace an existing familiaróthe familiar has been slowly
taking on pseudonatural aspects as the alienist rises in level,
and those characteristics become fully functional at this
point. From now on, the alienistís newly summoned familiars
already possess the pseudonatural template. If an alienist has
no familiar, this ability has no effect.

thegurullamen
2009-12-04, 11:48 PM
Check out the Bokor class in my signature. It's got a more voodoo bent to it, but the spells and class abilities could be reworked for a witch flavor. the spells are also drawn from all of the books you listed, which might save you some time.

The Tygre
2009-12-05, 02:36 AM
May the Goddess in all her faces smile upon you, then;

The Liber Mysterium (http://www.dcrouzet.net/nbownw/)

Serpentine
2009-12-05, 02:47 AM
I am trying to come up with a witch style class using the spell list from the DMG. It is based on the sorcerer but has a few class features to cope for the reduced spell list.

The trouble is coming from the class features. I see a witch as a sorcerer crossed with an alchemist, illusionist, and druid. So my first reaction was a familiar that is more powerful than normal (more akin to an animal companion), the ability to brew potions and make them more efficiently, and Expanding the spell list using complete arcane, complete mage, and the spell compendium.I'm not quite sure what you're after... but have you seen this witch (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19526430/The_WITCH_Core_Class)?

The Tygre
2009-12-05, 03:10 AM
I'm not quite sure what you're after... but have you seen this witch (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19526430/The_WITCH_Core_Class)?

Yes, but which witch is which? Sorry, couldn't resist.

(Holy crap! Salvageable 3.5 material on the Wizards boards! Quick, someone save it before it's devoured by the boards!)

Serpentine
2009-12-05, 07:56 AM
I was hoping someone'd do that :smalltongue:
I have a copy of it... somewhere. Definitely a printed one, possibly digital. I don't know where I got it from, though, and it doesn't have all the formatting issues of that one. I think it was the product of a Wizards contest, though.

Mulletmanalive
2009-12-05, 09:27 AM
Sweet, a Witch class that doesn't insist that all witches are good!

One of my many back burner projects is a Witch that gains her powers by bullying Fae into giving her some of their powers for brief periods of time, though i'm torn between adapting the Shadowmage and the Binder for the purpose...[i spent ages wondering why classical images of witches always have cauldons when they rarely seem to make potions...Fae catching!]

Gamerlord
2009-12-05, 09:43 AM
How about giving it some of the hexblade class features? Mix that with brew potion as a bonus feat, and set for 30 minutes to cool.

Pyron
2009-12-05, 09:51 AM
I am trying to come up with a witch style class using the spell list from the DMG. It is based on the sorcerer but has a few class features to cope for the reduced spell list.

You could use the War Mage / Beguiler route and have the witch automatically knows every spell on the list (from the DMG). Throw in some appropriate advance learning and improved familiar/brew potions feats. Just a thought.

Nhoj
2009-12-13, 10:58 PM
There is a witch in Paths of Power made by 4 Winds Fantasy Gaming. They are definately a passive class so no true powerful spells like fireball. They do gain a familiar, the ability to fly on a broom. But it is easily adaptable to be more offensive.

Roderick_BR
2009-12-14, 02:53 PM
You could take a look at the artificer, and pick the abilities a witch could use brewing potions.

Real Sorceror
2009-12-14, 03:25 PM
Like one of the previous posters, I'd strongly suggest having a look at the Pathfinder base classes. They did a very nice version of the Witch and they just released an Alchemist base class today, if you like the potion making deal.

The-Marksman
2009-12-15, 08:50 AM
I dont know if you've ever heard of it, but I once saw a book called "The Witch's Handbook". It was for D&D V3.0, but I think everyone knows that thats pretty easy to convert to 3.5. I remember it so well because I was so facinated at how they set the class up, because it seemed like the perfect way to do a witch for D&D. I looked it up before writing this post, and it was from "Master Class" and published by "Green Ronin Publishing" The author was "Steve Kenson" and was published in 2002. It had feats, alternative skill uses, the base class, and lots of prestige classes as well as a custom spell list that is similar to the one in the DMG, but more extensive with some custom spells, like Steal Youth for example, and there was a lot of stuff about potion making and ritual magic and stuff, it was pretty sweet.

Heres how the class was laid out.

HD: d4

{table=head]Level | BAB | Fort | Ref | Will | Special |
1st | +0 | +0 | +0 | +2 | Familiar |
2nd | +1 | +0 | +0 | +3 | - |
3rd | +1 | +1 | +1 | +3 | - |
4th | +2 | +1 | +1 | +4 | - |
5th | +2 | +1 | +1 | +4 | Bonus Feat |
6th | +3 | +2 | +2 | +5 | - |
7th | +3 | +2 | +2 | +5 | - |
8th | +4 | +2 | +2 | +6 | - |
9th | +4 | +3 | +3 | +6 | - |
10th | +5 | +3 | +3 | +7 | Bonus Feat |
11th | +5 | +3 | +3 | +7 | - |
12th | +6/+1 | +4 | +4 | +8 | - |
13th | +6/+1 | +4 | +4 | +8 | A Thousand Faces |
14th | +7/+2 | +4 | +4 | +9 | - |
15th | +7/+2 | +5 | +5 | +9 | Bonus Feat |
16th | +8/+3 | +5 | +5 | +10 | - |
17th | +8/+3 | +5 | +5 | +10 | Timeless Body |
18th | +9/+4 | +6 | +6 | +11 | - |
19th | +9/+4 | +6 | +6 | +11 | - |
20th | +10/+5 | +6 | +6 | +12 | Bonus Feat |[/table]

Skills: Class skills: Alchemy, Concentraition, Craft, Diplomacy, Handle Animal, Heal, Intuit Direction, Knowledge (Arcana), Knowledge (Nature), Profession, Scry, Sense Motive, Spellcraft, Swim, Wilderness Lore
Skills:4 + Int skill points per level, x4 at first level.

The class gained spells per day and spells known same as the sorcerer found in the 3.5 Players Handbook, and the bonus feats were like a wizard, had to be metamagic or item creation.

lesser_minion
2009-12-15, 09:52 AM
Well, from a grammar stormtrooper's perspective, I'd like to point out that you don't need to put quotation marks around names or titles.

Steve Kenson is known as a reasonably good designer, and Green Ronin are actually one of the more successful games companies around (big enough that Myth-Weavers used to have a whole subforum for their feeds). You didn't pull them out of a hat.

The bonuses you're suggesting there seem pretty reasonable to me.

Lord Loss
2009-12-15, 10:19 AM
A limited use of a Hex ability somewhat5 like that of the hexblade would be rather useful and flavorful, I think. Improved familliar is a nice idea, but I was think more old-fashioned familliar which is even more powerful, which could be attained by the witch getting bonus feats that improve the familliar, like the ones found in the PHBII and... I dunno where else.