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Caxton
2009-12-07, 10:27 PM
My DM is letting me be a Young Black Dragon for his campaign. Does anyone have any interesting ideas for what to do with this dragon?

Tanaric
2009-12-07, 10:28 PM
Practice your evil laugh?

A bit more information would be useful. :smalltongue:

Caxton
2009-12-07, 10:30 PM
Oh I forgot to mention that I will be a 10 HD Dragon, all of them racial hit dice. Other then that I can't think of anything else that is pertinent. Mainly I'm wondering what would be a good seletion of skills, feats, and eventually class levels.

Crafty Cultist
2009-12-07, 10:30 PM
Keep an eye out for kobolds. their reverence of dragons can make them loyal minions. you should also take advantage of your aquatic superiority in combat

erikun
2009-12-07, 10:31 PM
Class? Level? Etc.?

Beyond that, practice french kissing? I think spraying acid down an opponent's throat would be one way of taking them out. :smalltongue:

CoffeeIncluded
2009-12-07, 10:32 PM
Well, are you Chaotic Evil? Or are you allowed to mess with your alignment a bit? (Maybe a one step shift, like with the clerics?)

Will your character stay in his/her natural form all the time? What about when walking through cities and such? If your character uses a Disguise Self spell in such cases, what form will he/she prefer?

Boci
2009-12-07, 10:34 PM
How is LA being handeled?

Caxton
2009-12-07, 10:36 PM
More than likely I'll be in dragon-form most of the time. I can be whatever alignment I like, but the party is evil. As for LA, its being ignored for us (on a reasonable basis).

Mongoose87
2009-12-07, 10:40 PM
They had some Dragon racial classes in one of the Dragon magazines...

Dusk Eclipse
2009-12-07, 10:45 PM
I am sure that Draconomicon, Dragon Magic and Races of the Dragon will have some useful thinsg for your little dragon.

If you already have the breath weapon (was it a cone of acid gas or line?) look at the metabreath feats.

Prime32
2009-12-08, 04:34 AM
What levels are the rest of the party?

BooNL
2009-12-08, 04:58 AM
Draconomicon has a lot of feats and classes specifically aimed at dragons, I'd say that's your best place to start.
RoTD and DM also have some nice stuff.

I'd say you want and least some flying feats to make combat easier. Stuff like Hover and Flyby Attack are essential. Then a couple of metabreath feats are useful.

Classwise, I'd say advance in sorcerer...

PhoenixRivers
2009-12-08, 05:05 AM
Avoid metabreath. It's a very unbalanced mechanic. With it, you'll be able, at your current state, to melt entire cities to the ground.

I'd focus on the melee side of the dragons. They're excellent melee combatants.

Edwin
2009-12-08, 05:11 AM
Avoid metabreath. It's a very unbalanced mechanic. With it, you'll be able, at your current state, to melt entire cities to the ground.

I'd focus on the melee side of the dragons. They're excellent melee combatants.

How exactly would he go about doing that? :smallconfused:

Also, if you go the meele route, get quicken, shape and the one that makes it a burst. That way, you can get a breath weapon attack, that hits all enemies within 10 ft. or something like that, as well as full attack off in the first round of combat.

Thats's 1d8(+str)+2d6(+str)+2d4(+str)+6d4 damage.

kamikasei
2009-12-08, 05:12 AM
What kind of a campaign is it? Playing an errant dragon adventurer traveling with a party of unlikely comrades is quite different to playing a new power in draconic politics assembling a lair and minions.

What are your stats like? Are you using the stat block right out of the book or using it to get stat adjustments (+4 STR and CON, I guess) to apply to your bought/rolled stats? That'll affect recommendations for advancement.

Will you be advancing by class, or by age category or HD somehow? I take it you're being treated as ECL 10 at the moment?

Grumman
2009-12-08, 05:26 AM
How exactly would he go about doing that? :smallconfused:
I haven't looked for myself, but you are supposedly able to apply metabreath effects more than once. So instead of being limited to a Widened acid line once every 1d4+X rounds, you use a Widened^600 acid line once an hour.

PhoenixRivers
2009-12-08, 05:29 AM
How exactly would he go about doing that? :smallconfused:

Metabreath: Shape - Turn the line to a cone.
Metabreath: Enlarge - Stacks with itself. Use it 100 times on a breath.
Metabreath: Linger - Use it multiple times. Each use is +1 round, at half the original damage.

Fly over a city, aim down. Acid bypasses hardness. Melt a city. By the time it reaches ground level, it will be as wide as it is long. It can be as long as you want, up to as high as you can fly.

All the multiple use text above explicitly states that it works that way in the feat description.

Rainbownaga
2009-12-08, 06:01 AM
All the multiple use text above explicitly states that it works that way in the feat description.

Except the actual feat description contradicts that.

paddyfool
2009-12-08, 06:35 AM
If I were playing a black dragon... I'd be all about the shinies. They're supposed to be about the most acquisitive of dragons, and a first and foremost motivation of personal profit can work pretty well. Cooperating with the rest of the party is part of a (somewhat risky, as the rest of the party is also evil) medium-term strategy towards further profit. Other major character facets that make quite a lot of sense would be to be spiteful, predatory, arrogant... you know the drill.

Mechanically, flyby attack would be a must; although you'd be devastating in base-to-base combat, you don't really want to stay there next to anyone that would pose you a threat, and anybody that wouldn't isn't going to want to stay next to you. Also, if your DM allows a cohort, getting a rider minion is a fine way to break the action economy. And definitely look up the spell Scintillating Scales to do something about your Touch AC.

Volkov
2009-12-08, 06:55 AM
Actually, Red dragons are the greediest of dragons. They will burn entire nations if they find out one of their commoners stole a bucket of plain old rocks from their cave.

hamishspence
2009-12-08, 06:59 AM
Some red dragons are less prone to this.

Hephaestous, in R. A. Salvatore's Sojourn (book 3 in the Dark Elf trilogy) simply vows to thoroughly eat the next merchant party that comes his way (he hires out his breath to occasionally visiting merchants, for smelting)

And (in the book) it suggests that he will probably forget this vow after sleeping.

Johel
2009-12-08, 08:56 AM
Ok, this is not for optimization but the idea sounds cool to me :

Young black dragon character, no adventurer class :
30pts buy
Str 14, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 14, Wis 8, Cha 14
Str+4, Con+4
4 HD : Str+1
8 HD : Str+1
Str 20, Dex 14, Con 18, Int 14, Wis 8, Cha 14
10d12+40 hp
Skill : (6+2) x (10+3) = 104
Light load : 133 lbs
AC 30 : +19 Natural +2 Dex +10 Armor
Fort+11 Ref +9 Will +6

Feats
Power Attack or Improved Initiative
Flyby Attack
Wingover
Hover

Equipment : 49.000 po
Magical Masterwork Mithral Full plate +2 (16.000) (25 lbs)
Hat of Disguise (2.500) (1 lbs)
Ring of Invisibility (20.000)
Bag of Holding Type II (5.000) (25 lbs)
Wand of Cure Light Wounds (750)
Pocket money ("it's my hoard") (4.750) (heavy, consider gems)

Skills
Listen +13 Rank -1 Wis = +12
Search +13 Rank +2 Int = +15
Spot +13 Rank -1 Wis = +12
Use Magic Device +13 Rank +2 Cha = +15
Swim +13 Rank +5 Str -6 Full Plate +3 Mithril +1 Masterwork = +16
Move Silently +13 Rank +2 Dex -6 Full Plate +3 Mithril +1 Masterwork = +13
Knowledge and other skills (at your choice) +26 Rank

Standard tactics :

Use the Hat of Disguise for social purpose. Pose as a copper dragon.
Use the Invisibility Ring + Move Silently to remain unnoticed.
In the open, fly high, stay invisible, then use Flyby Attack to dive, breath and fly up in the same round.
If you can't fly, stay invisible, use your breath whenever possible then go invisible again. In the long run, you should win.
In melee, use your breath whenever possible, as it doesn't provoke an AO. Natural weapons are only useful for the 1d4 rounds down time...or to crush the squishy wizard.


EDIT :
If allowed Leadership
Scrap "Hover", Get "Leadership"
The high sycophant (Kobold, 8th level Cleric, CM)
The 8 sycophants (Kobolds, 1st level Adepts)

Edwin
2009-12-08, 09:06 AM
You're going to want multi attack. Otherwise you'll get -5 on all secondary attacks, rather than -2.

Also, consider things like improved natural attack (bite) or (claw), to give you that extra high dice.

And, as I said, quickened, burst breath attacks are a free action, so they can be used together with a full attack. Just make sure you're more or less surrounded, and you'll deal quite a bit of damage. Slap Linger on that, and you're a regular powerhouse.

Simply fly out if you start soaking too much damage.

lord_khaine
2009-12-08, 09:11 AM
I will second the suggestiong to take leadership, and pick up a tripe of kobold worshippers.

To start with im sure it will give some hilarious roleplaying, and besides that you could get a kobold cleric to ride on your back, and buff/heal you.

Johel
2009-12-08, 09:15 AM
I will second the suggestion to take leadership, and pick up a tripe of kobold worshippers.

To start with im sure it will give some hilarious roleplaying, and besides that you could get a kobold cleric to ride on your back, and buff/heal you.


Our beloved master... WE LOVE YOU !! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Azcn84IIDVg)

bosssmiley
2009-12-08, 11:58 AM
They had some Dragon racial classes in one of the Dragon magazines...

And they were awful. You ended up playing a 12th level equivalent character at 20th level. Don't even look at the Dragon racial progressions unless you like playing a cohort's cohort's cohort's cohort.

As for what to do with a dragon PC: if you need other people to suggest evil schemes and dirty trick, then you ain't ready to have one.

Caxton
2009-12-08, 11:42 PM
Hahah. Havin Kobold worshippers sounds like a great idea. Thanks for the ideas everybody.