[3.5] Initiator Multiclass feats?

[Malos]

I recently have taken an interest in the Initiator classes (Crusader, Swordsage, and Warblade) and their prestige classes. I was wondering if there are any feats out there similar to Ascetic Stalker and the like for these Initiator classes.

Anyone know of any?

I have been coming up with a list of my own homebrew feats for them in case of their nonexistence. Feel free to criticize or whatever.

Ascetic Combatant
[General]

Prerequisites: Initiator level 1+, Improved Unarmed Strike.

Benefit: Your Monk and Initiator class levels stack to determine your Unarmed Damage.
Your Monk level stacks with your Initiator level (instead of 1/2 your Monk level) to determine your total Initiator level.

You may multiclass between Monk and Initiator classes freely.

You may select this as a Monk bonus feat.


Ascetic Seeker
[General]

Prerequisites: Improved Unarmed Strike, Skirmish +1d6.

Benefit: Your Scout and Monk levels stack to determine your Unarmed Damage and your Skirmish ability.

You may multiclass between Scout and Monk freely.

You may select this as a Scout bonus feat.
You may select this as a Monk bonus feat.


Combative Ambusher
[General]

Prerequisites: Initiator level 1+, Sneak Attack +1d6.

Benefit: Your Rogue and Initiator class levels stack to determine your Sneak Attack damage.
Your Rogue level stacks with your Initiator level (instead of 1/2 your Rogue level) to determine your total Initiator level.


Combative Hunter
[General]

Prerequisites: Initiator level 1+, Favored Enemy.

Benefit: Your Ranger and Initiator class levels stack to determine your number of Favored Enemies.
Your Ranger level stacks with your Initiator level (instead of 1/2 your Ranger level) to determine your total Initiator level.


Combative Stalker
[General]

Prerequisites: Initiator level 1+, Ki power

Benefit: Your Ninja and Initiator levels stack to determine the size of your ki pool.
Your Ninja levels stack with your Initiator level (instead of 1/2 your Ninja level) to determine your total Initiator level.


Swift Combatant
[General]

Prerequisites: Initiator level 1+, Skirmish +1d6.

Benefit: Your Scout and Initiator class levels stack to determine your Skirmish ability.
Your Scout level stacks with your Initiator level (instead of 1/2 your Scout level) to determine your total Initiator level.

You may select this as a Scout bonus feat.

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Edit: I just realized I also included my Monk/Scout feat... whoops.:smalltongue:
Edit2: Added Combative Ambusher.
Edit3: Added Ascetic Combatant and edited the feats to say "Initiator class level" instead of "Initiator level".
Edit4: Increased the level stacking to the appropriate amount (Thanks Thrice Dead Cat!)
Edit5: Added Combative Stalker.

[Eldan]

Well, what they should probably do is make the stacking class grant full initiator level. That's probably powerful enough, if you also make it stack on another class.


Edit: Now, I'm not generally that blind, but it seems that's actually what you did. Good, then.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

Edit: Now, I'm not generally that blind, but it seems that's actually what you did. Good, then.

Kind of. See, if a character with Combative Ambusher was a Rogue 5/Swordsage 2, a case could be argued that you round down on the 1/2 gained from the feat and rogue levels, giving you an IL of 6 instead of the intended 7. Minor nitpick on my part, sure, but I figured I'd throw that out there.

[Malos]

I figured giving the Initiator levels on a level for level basis would be a bit powerful... so I decided on 1 every 2.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

I figured giving the Initiator levels on a level for level basis would be a bit powerful... so I decided on 1 every 2.

The thing is, by default, the classes do that anyway. It would simply be easier to say "Rogue levels count as full initiator levels" or "Rogue levels count as [initiator class here] levels for all purposes. Choose one initiator class upon selecting this feat" instead.

EDIT: What I'm trying to get at, is, it's not overpowered to do so.

[Malos]

Wow... I completely misread that. Just checked again and you were right! That changes things.:smallredface:

[Thrice Dead Cat]

Wow... I completely misread that. Just checked again and you were right! That changes things.:smallredface:

Don't worry about it. The organization on the Tome of Battle leaves a little to be desired once you get past the classes.

[Eloel]

You now made everyone who wants to sneak attack a Rogue 1/Swordsage 19. Congrats.

Edit: Actually, add to that a level of scout, for full skirmish damage, for Rogue 1/Scout 1/SS 18

Go invisible for 1 round with the relevant immediate action Boost. Pounce. Deal stupendous amounts of d6s of damage.

A quick calculation, with the feat that gives +2d6 Skirmish & Assassin's Stance.

18d6, with TWF (6 attacks) = 108d6 damage. That, hurts.

You also have the bonus skirmish AC, and are still at 20 IL, so you can do all your SS goodies.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

You now made everyone who wants to sneak attack a Rogue 1/Swordsage 19. Congrats.

Edit: Actually, add to that a level of scout, for full skirmish damage, for Rogue 1/Scout 1/SS 18

Go invisible for 1 round with the relevant immediate action Boost. Pounce. Deal stupendous amounts of d6s of damage.

A quick calculation, with the feat that gives +2d6 Skirmish & Assassin's Stance.

18d6, with TWF (6 attacks) = 108d6 damage. That, hurts.

You also have the bonus skirmish AC, and are still at 20 IL, so you can do all your SS goodies.

Eh, maybe restrict the Rogue feat to Swordsage or Warblade, and the Scout to the other.

Also, to be fair, you are assuming each attack hits (unlikely) and that the bugger isn't just immune from the damage anyhow (very).

[Eldan]

Still... I don't think other such feats let sneak attack damage stack (going from (bad) memory here, but I think so)... perhaps let half the other class' level stack for bonus damage? Scouts give stuff besides sneak attack, rogues don't, really, until level 10, which is a large dip.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

Still... I don't think other such feats let sneak attack damage stack (going from (bad) memory here, but I think so)... perhaps let half the other class' level stack for bonus damage? Scouts give stuff besides sneak attack, rogues don't, really, until level 10, which is a large dip.

Swift Hunter is full skirmish and favored enemy bonuses between the obvious combination classes. Daring Outlaw stacks Sneak Attack with the Swashbuckler's grace, so, these are nothing new.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Shouldn't this be on the Homebrew forum?

[Zaq]

Swift Hunter is full skirmish and favored enemy bonuses between the obvious combination classes. Daring Outlaw stacks Sneak Attack with the Swashbuckler's grace, so, these are nothing new.

The difference is that Ranger and Swashbuckler are really terrible classes (hey, they were pre-ToB full-BAB classes, so of COURSE they're terrible), and you're really giving something up by multiclassing into them (rogue into swash loses 4 skill points and special abilities, gaining only full BAB since it's not like swash has any worthwhile class features, and scout into ranger loses 2 skills and a lot of useful scout class features, gaining the truly mediocre ranger class features in return. Honestly I prefer my swift hunters to be ranger into scout so I can skirmish normally immune enemies, but the tyrannies of iteratives make the full BAB of the ranger tempting.) That doesn't really apply to the ToB classes... they're solidly built classes with actual class features, so it's not nearly so much of a sacrifice to multiclass into them. Giving Swordsage full sneak attack with a feat and one class level lost strikes me as a little bit overpowered.

[Mongoose87]

I'd dig that ranger feat. It'd make building a skillfull, but still effective TWF much easier.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

-snip-

It would be easy to increase the requirements to demand more rogue, to prevent such, if you're worried about it. As far as the merits of Scout vs. Ranger for swift hunting, with access to Spell Compendium, the ranger's normally whimpy half-casting actually becomes moderately effective at getting charges and a few other interesting ability, at least matching it in effectiveness to taking moar Scout instead.

Got to give you the Swashbuckler argument though, as real Daring Outlaws are Swash 3 (or 4, for seduction:smallwink:)/Rogue X, maybe with something like Dread Commando to taste.

As is currently, the Rogue//Initiator feat has the nasty habit of only needing Swordsage levels to qualify. It may be better to have it require +2d6 sneak attack and uncanny dodge, just so that more levels of rogue are needed.



Shouldn't this be on the Homebrew forum?

Yeah, it should be. Didn't even realize that till now.

[Mongoose87]

T'would be appropriate to make one that stacks Paladin and Crusader, say for Smite Evil and Initiator level.