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Anonymouswizard
2009-12-10, 12:06 PM
Complete Arcane brought us the Warlock. Dragon Magic brought us the Dragonfire Adept. But nowhere are invokers based on other concepts (as far as I know).

So join me fellow playgrounders, in my quest to make an invocation system to completely replace magic! The way I see it, the warlock is the wizard, making dark pacts to gain power in return for portions of their soul, service, or some other bargain. Then we have the Dragonfire adept, the sorcerer of the invocation world, who uses magic based on his heritage, not some outside force. So surely characters should be able to requestion invocations from their gods, especially if there was no normal divine magic. And so, may we all peach the first class in this expedition:
Cleric
Bla bla bla, holy man bla bla, god bla bla worship.
{table]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special|Invocations
1|+0|+2|+0|+2|Healing touch 1d6, least invocations|1
2|+1|+3|+0|+3|Domain power, divine armour +2|1
3|+2|+3|+1|+3|Healing touch 2d6|2
4|+3|+4|+1|+4| Holy man |2
5|+3|+4|+1|+4|Healing touch 3d6, domain power|2
6|+4|+5|+2|+5|DR2/opposite alignment, lesser invocations|3
7|+5|+5|+2|+5|Healing touch 4d6|3
8|+6|+6|+2|+6|Divine armour +3|4
9|+6|+6|+3|+6|healing touch 5d6|4
10|+7|+7|+3|+7|Domain power|4
11|+8|+7|+3|+7|Healing touch 6d6, greater invocations|5
12|+9|+8|+4|+8|Domain power|5
13|+9|+8|+4|+8|Divine armour +4|6
14|+10|+9|+4|+9|Healing touch 7d6|6
15|+11|+9|+5|+9|Domain power|6
16|+12|+10|+5|+10|DR 5/opposite alignment, dark invocations|7
17|+12|+10|+5|+10|Healing touch 8d6|7
18|+13|+11|+6|+11|Divine armour +5|8
19|+14|+11|+6|+11|Divine calling|8
20|+15|+12|+6|+12|Healing touch 9d6, domain power|8[/table]
Skills/skill points: as current cleric.
Hit dice: d8
Weapon and armour proficiency: clerics are proficient with all simple weapons as well as their deities favoured weapon. Clerics are proficient with all armour and shields (but not tower shields).
Invocations: the same rules as the warlocks, except that the save DC is based on wisdom and they suffer no arcane spell failure.
Healing touch: with a successful touch a cleric can heal the listed amount of damage from an ally. This channels positive energy, and all clerics heal with this ability instead of harming. This ability deals the amount of damage it would normally heal to undead. He can use this ability a number of times per day equal to their class level plus their wisdom modifier.
Domain power: at 2nd, 5th, 10th, 12th, 15th, and 20th level a cleric gains a power from one of the domains granted by his deity. You can select one of the domain powers from any of the domains your deity grants, even if you already have powers from one or more domains.
Divine armour: at 2nd level you skin becomes infused with divine energy, granting you a +2 bonus to your natural armour. This bonus increases to +3 at 8th level, +4 at 13th level, and +5 at 18th level.
Holy man: at 4th level you gain a +4 competence bonus on diplomacy rolls to influence members of your faith.
Damage reduction: at 6th level a cleric gains damage reduction 2/the alignment that opposes their own. If they have multiple alignments that oppose theirs then they choose one. at 16th level their damage reduction increases to 5.
Divine calling: at 19th level a cleric can use planar binding 1/day. THis works exactly as the spell.

Latronis
2009-12-10, 12:11 PM
There was a 'Divine Warlock' somewhere. Though I think it was a PrC and may even have given up invocation progression. I'll take a looksee and see if i can find it

Enlightened Spirit, Complete Mage pg60~

Looking over it again it's not quite what i originally recalled however. It's more a the standard warlock that moves beyond and above the fiendish heritage and gains celestial powers. (eldritch blast advances and is extra painful to undead :smallannoyed:. But it gives up invocation progression.

So not exactly. But it is moving slightly away from the demon pact deal.

Also the wizards site had variants for celestial and fey based warlocks.

Though I do support exploring other casters with a warlock style.


Also I assume the healing touch is the equivelent of the eldritch blast.. and invocations piggyback on that?

Anonymouswizard
2009-12-10, 12:49 PM
There was a 'Divine Warlock' somewhere. Though I think it was a PrC and may even have given up invocation progression. I'll take a looksee and see if i can find it

Enlightened Spirit, Complete Mage pg60~

Looking over it again it's not quite what i originally recalled however. It's more a the standard warlock that moves beyond and above the fiendish heritage and gains celestial powers. (eldritch blast advances and is extra painful to undead :smallannoyed:. But it gives up invocation progression.

So not exactly. But it is moving slightly away from the demon pact deal.

Also the wizards site had variants for celestial and fey based warlocks.

Though I do support exploring other casters with a warlock style.


Also I assume the healing touch is the equivelent of the eldritch blast.. and invocations piggyback on that?

Are, I've never read Complete mage. NAyway, healing touch does work like that, and the same with invocations. I am still thinking up the invocation list, and the excat name (warlock invocations are invocations, dragonfire adept invocations are draconic invocations, maybe just divine invocations). I hope to create a warlock version of the druid, and so let invocations replace vancian magic if wanted.

Latronis
2009-12-10, 01:09 PM
Are, I've never read Complete mage. NAyway, healing touch does work like that, and the same with invocations. I am still thinking up the invocation list, and the excat name (warlock invocations are invocations, dragonfire adept invocations are draconic invocations, maybe just divine invocations). I hope to create a warlock version of the druid, and so let invocations replace vancian magic if wanted.

Well not much else to be sad until some Invocations are up :smallbiggrin:

Though Healing Touch can probably afford to go upto d8's, so it's more in line with the basic cure spells. (as eldritch blast uses the most common die for damage)

Invocations: Default list or based on domains? Or more like the standard cleric and choosing from your cleric list and getting a few extras added to the list? Or domains just for powers not extra invocations?

Anonymouswizard
2009-12-10, 01:36 PM
The list will be similar to the existing list. Domain powers are what domain spells are for the moment, but I might let clerics choose two domains and get a single invocation from it. Domain powers either enhance the healing touch ability or replace it. So even if you can get of two standard actions in the round it is either a heal or a power not both.

Anonymouswizard
2009-12-10, 02:10 PM
Divine Invocations.
The following invocations are available to clerics. They are used in the same way as warlock invocations and draconic invocations.
Least invocations
Darkness: create darkness as the spell.
Divine favour: gain bonuses to attack rolls and AC.
Divine servant: gain an unseen servant as the spell.
Faithful shield: gain a shield of faith as the spell.
Fearsome presence: subjects within 40ft become feared (as the fear spell).
Holy resilience: gain resistances.
See the unseen: gain darkvision; gain see invisibility as the spell.
Sight of the Lord: see normally in natural and magical darkness.
Smite: channel divine energy into your weapon, dealing extra damage.
Strength of the Lord: gain +2 to strength.
Lesser invocations
Angelic flight: sprout feathered wings and fly at your base land speed.
Charm: cause a single create regard you as a friend.
Divine power: use divine power as the spell.
Gargantuan pests: use giant vermin as the spell.
Godly speed: gain a short ranged dimension door.
Imbue with magical power: lose access to invocations to let subjects cast them.
Perfect communication: use tongues as the spell.
Voracious dispelling: use dispel magic as the spell, causing damage to creatures whose effects are dispeled.
Weakening curse: inflict curses on opponents.
Greater invocations
Devour Magic: use targeted greater dispel magic with a touch and gain temporary hit points based on the level of spells successfully dispelled.
Divine Resilience: gain temporary hit points equal to your level.
Holy Flame: use flame strike as the spell.
Priest's Honour: use righteous might as the spell.
Tenacious Plague: Use insect plague as the spell, but the summoned locast swarm deals damage as a magic weapon.
Wall of Perilous Flame: create a wall of fire as the spell, but half the damage from the wall results from supernatural power.
Wing Storm: create gusts of wind with your invocation granted wings.
Dark invocations
Angelic Flight, Greater: sprout wings and fly at perfect manoeuvrability; gain overland speed.
Ashes to Ashes: use destruction as the spell.
Magical resistance: use spell immunity, greater as the spell.
Shadowed Path: use shadow walk as the spell and speed up natural healing.
Word of Changing: use baleful polymorph as the spell, but effect could become permanent.

Eloel
2009-12-10, 02:51 PM
1-lvl dip into this makes all other out-of-combat healing pointless.

Random_person
2009-12-10, 03:32 PM
Presumably, this is designed to replace other sources of healing. There really would be no purpose in this if all that happened was a cleric took a 1-level dip and moved on, so I am assuming that these are meant to be mutually exclusive with the Vancian classes (and possibly the psionics as well, considering the Mindscourge or whatever the name was that turned up a little while ago)/

Anonymouswizard
2009-12-10, 03:43 PM
Pretty much. I will look up the mindscource, but I was never really hooked by it. This is mainly going towards a setting where there is no vancian magic, 3.0 psionics as it is stated, and invocations. For this reason a different crafting and brewing system will be needed, but healing potions would only heal 1d6hp or something. So you can't dip into this from cleric, by taking it you are in the only cleric class. However, it is not saying that all priests are members of this class. Most will be experts, the same as scholars.

Mulletmanalive
2009-12-10, 03:48 PM
while i'm not saying this would be a bad thing, there's going to be a CR repercussion to the increased healing presence.

The modifier comes around 1/4 of the CR of the monsters when used in numbers greater than 2, if i remember the recharge magic effects from UA.

Anonymouswizard
2009-12-10, 04:33 PM
while i'm not saying this would be a bad thing, there's going to be a CR repercussion to the increased healing presence.

The modifier comes around 1/4 of the CR of the monsters when used in numbers greater than 2, if i remember the recharge magic effects from UA.

Thanks for that, that is the one thing I had not thought about. Using this cleric could become a problem, but I could limit it to uses per day. maybe class level+wisdom modifier. I will edit it into the original post, and will accept any other ideas for limitations.

Random_person
2009-12-10, 09:35 PM
One option might be to give it d4 healing touch, and then give it recharge times on any and all better healing abilities.

TabletopNuke
2009-12-10, 10:15 PM
Very yes! We need more invocations! But how on Earth did you endeavor to create invocation classes without reading Complete Mage?! You need to take a look at the eldritch disciple.

What are you comparing this too for power? It's very different from any classes I'm familiar with, and I'm not sure how measure it's strength.

Latronis
2009-12-11, 12:29 AM
TTN has a point there is a fair bit of good stuff in CMage for invocation classes.

I would definately use a whole bunch of warlocks in a game where traditional magic has been locked away.

Anonymouswizard
2009-12-11, 11:31 AM
What are you comparing this too for power? It's very different from any classes I'm familiar with, and I'm not sure how measure it's strength.

I based it on the Dragonfire Adept from Dragon Magic, and so all abilities except for divine calling are based on that class.

If anyone could work out a way to restrict healing touch without having to do uses per day I would be grateful. I would prefer to use a recharge time for anything that was X/Y, so 1/day 24 hours, 2/day 12 hours, 3/day 8 hours and so on. Healing touch d4 sounds better, but I am going to set it at d6 as that is the dice you most likely have a dozen of lying around.

TabletopNuke
2009-12-11, 03:14 PM
I based it on the Dragonfire Adept from Dragon Magic, and so all abilities except for divine calling are based on that class.

Sadly, I'm still trying to get my hands on a copy of Dragon Magic, so I can't help you there.

Nero24200
2009-12-11, 04:57 PM
The "Infinate Healing" aspect might not be such a big deal if this is used alongside the Vitality/Wound points varient, or a rule that says you gain Fast Healing X in any situation where you can Take 10.

Though if you did that, I'd definately up the healing power, since it would only be any good in combat so there would need to be alot of incentive to use it over other actions.

Love the conceapt though. Truthfully, I've thought about something like this before (specifically a "1 mage class fits all" esc one with varients, one with an eldritch blast, one with healing, one with at-will shifting etc), but never really followed through with it.

Random_person
2009-12-11, 05:02 PM
If you don't like d4, then I would urge you to consider dropping it even more drastically, but making it easier to use. Perhaps drop it to one, but make it a swift action to use, and then have rechargeable domain powers which can, depending on your domain, increase the die size temporarily?

sdream
2009-12-11, 05:05 PM
I based it on the Dragonfire Adept from Dragon Magic, and so all abilities except for divine calling are based on that class.

If anyone could work out a way to restrict healing touch without having to do uses per day I would be grateful. I would prefer to use a recharge time for anything that was X/Y, so 1/day 24 hours, 2/day 12 hours, 3/day 8 hours and so on. Healing touch d4 sounds better, but I am going to set it at d6 as that is the dice you most likely have a dozen of lying around.

I see no point in making healing rare. If anything of healing is affordable by a level 1 then at level 6 or so your characters are rolling in enough resources to buy pools of it.

Stick with your original plan - nobody with half a brain has out of combat healing issues anyway, and for burst healing you aren't coming close to topping a cleric.

TabletopNuke
2009-12-11, 07:41 PM
How about a variant of psionic focus? Perhaps the healing touch ability expends the user's "divinely focus", which requires a standard action and a DC 20 Concentration check to use.

Anonymouswizard
2009-12-12, 10:10 AM
How about a variant of psionic focus? Perhaps the healing touch ability expends the user's "divinely focus", which requires a standard action and a DC 20 Concentration check to use.

Actually, I think I will expand the rules to all magic (both invocations and psionics), and then say that whenever you have cast a spell/manifested a power you must make a check in order to keep your focus. The highest level invocation or power will require you to expand your focus, but all other invocations and powers just put a strain on the character. Maybe being focused for to long drains hp, and using abilities adds rounds to the duration that has passed?

The reason I am currently going with uses/day is that I want to limit out of combat healing. If healing touch could be used at will then out of combat a cleric could completely heal his allies, making the CR of opponents lessen. I might make a feat that lets you use healing touch more times per day, but I do not wnat the PCs facing every challenge with full hp.

Anonymouswizard
2009-12-12, 12:33 PM
I've been meaning to get round to this, queue the invocation descriptions.

Angelic flight
Lesser, 4th
When you use this invocation you sprout feathered wings and fly at your base land speed with good manoeuvrability for 24 hours.
Your wings allow you to cover overland distances with great endurance; you gain a +4 bonus on constitution checks to avoid nonlethal damage from a forced march.
Angelic Flight, Greater
Dark, 7th
As angelic flight, except your fly speed is 30ft faster than your land speed, and your manoeuvrability is perfect.
Ashes to Ashes
Dark, 7th
When you use this invocation you can use destruction as the spell.
Charm
Lesser, 4th
You can beguile a creature within 60 feet. The creature must succeed on a will save or instantly come to regard you as a comrade. This is a language dependent ability. Other than these differences, this ability works as the charm monster spell. You can never have more than one target charmed at a time with this ability. If a second creature is charmed you lose your hold on the first creature.
Darkness
Least, 2nd
Create darkness as the spell.
Devour Magic
Greater, 6th
This invocation allows you to deliver a targeted greater dispel magic with your touch. You gain 5 tempory hit points for each spell level dispelled by this touch. For example, if you successfully dispel a wall of ice, you gain 20 temporary hit points. These temporary hit points fade after 1 minute and do not stack with other temporary hit points. If you devour a new spell, you can replace the old temporary hit points with the ones gained from the more recent spell, thus resetting the duration. You cannot devour your own invocations.
Divine favour
Least, 1st
An ally gains a +1 bonus per three caster levels to attack rolls and AC. This invocation has a range of touch. It lasts for 1 hour.
Divine power
Lesser, 4th level.
When you use this invocation you gain divine power as the spell.
Divine Resilience
greater, 5th
You gain temporary hit points equal to your caster level. These hit points last 24 hours or until you use the invocation again (in which case any remaining temporary hit points are replaced by the new value).
Divine servant
Least, 1st
Gain an unseen servant as the spell.
Faithful shield
Least, 1st
Gain a shield of faith as the spell.
Fearsome presence
Least, 2nd
Subjects within 40ft become feared (as the fear spell).
Gargantuan pests
Lesser, 4th
When you use this invocation you can cast giant vermin as the spell.
Godly speed
Lesser, 4th
You can use dimension door as a spell-like ability, although the range is limited to short (25ft+5ft/2 levels). When you use this ability you leave behind a major image of yourself in your place that lasts for 1 round. The image reacts appropriately to attacks as if you were concentrating on it.
Holy Flame
Greater, 6th
You can use flame strike as the spell.
Holy resilience
Least, 2nd
An ally gains resistance to any one energy type 5. Each ally can only have this invocation on him once. It lasts for 1 hour.
Imbue with magical power
lesser, 4th
When you use this invocation you choose up to two invocations to transfer to a target that you can touch. You lose access to those invocations, but the recipient may use them as spell like abilities 5/day.
Magical resistance
Greater, 8th
When you activate this invocation you may use spell immunity, greater as the spell.
Perfect communication
Lesser, 3rd
When you use this invocation you may use tongues as the spell.
Priest's Honour
Greater, 5th
When you use this invocation you may use use righteous might as the spell.
See the unseen
Least, 2nd
When you use this invocation, you can activate great powers of vision , allowing you to see invisible creatures and objects (as see invisibility). You also gain darkvision out to 60ft for 24 hours.
Shadowed Path
Dark; 6th
This invocation allows you to use shadow walk as the spell. Each hour that you spend shadow walking with this ability, you regain hit points as if you had rested for a full day.
Sight of the Lord
Least, 2nd
You gain the sight of a clelestial for 24 hours. You can see normally in darkness and magical darkness out to 30ft.
Smite
Least, 2nd
When you use this invocation you make a smite attack with a normally melee attack. You add your Charisma bonus (if any) to your attack roll and deal 1 extra point of damage per caster level.
Strength of the Lord
Least, 2nd
When you use this invocation you imediately gain a +2 bonus to strength for 24 hours.
Tenacious Plague
Greater, 6th
You can use this invocation to summon a swarm, as the insect plague spell. You add your wisdom modifier to the fortitude save DC to resist the swarms distraction ability. The attacks of any locust swarm summoned by this ability are treated as magic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.
Voracious dispelling:
Lesser, 4th
You can use dispel magic as the spell. Any creature with an active spell effect dispelled by this invocation takes 1 point of damage per level of the spell effect (no save)
Wall of Perilous Flame
Greater, 5th
You can conjure a wall of fire as the spell with this invocation. Half the wall's fire damage results from supernatural power and therefore is not subject to being reduced by resistance to fire. If a creature is reduced to 0 hit points or lower by a wall of perilous flame, its remains are completely destroyed 1 round later (as if by a destruction spell).
Weakening curse
Lesser, 4th
You can use this invocation to bestow a curse upon a touched opponent (as bestow curse). Even if the save against this ability is successful, the creature takes a -1 penalty on attack rolls for 1 minute.
Wing Storm
Greater, 5th
You must have either angelic flight or greater angelic flight active in order to use this invocation.
Your wings create a storm of winds around you, pushing away and knocking down nearby creatures. All creatures within 20ft of you are pushed away until they are at least 25ft away and then knocked prone. A successful fortitude save negates the effect; creatures more than one size catagory larger than you are immune.If an affected creature encounters an obstacle (such as a wall or other creature), both it and the obstacle take 2d6 damage (as if they had fallen 20 ft).
manoeuvrability; gain overland speed.
Word of Changing
Dark, 5th
You utter a powerful word that transforms a creature into an inoffensive form. This effect functions like the baleful polymorph spell, except that 24 hours after being transformed, the subject if entitled to a second saving throw (at it's original save bonus) to spontaneously resume its normal form. If this second save fails, it remains in it's new form permanently or until restored by some other means.

Milskidasith
2009-12-12, 01:03 PM
So now they need to make a not hard but failable concentration check at level 1 just to be able to use their weak class abilities?

That doesn't even fix the out of combat healing problem, because they can just take 20 and heal, and it would still only take a few minutes to heal people.

Anonymouswizard
2009-12-12, 06:06 PM
Healing is still use/day. I will most likely move the focus rules into a new post, in fact lets do that now:
Optional rule: magical focus
In order to use their abilities a invoker must become magically focused. To do this they must con centrate for a full round (making focusing a full round action) and make a DC 15 concentration check. After that they can use invocations normally, and can hold their focus for a number of rounds equal to their primary spellcasting modifier. After that invokers suffer damage each round they hold their focus, losing hp equal to the number of rounds they have been focused. They may expand their focus at any time as a free action, but can use certain feats only by expanding their focus.