PDA

View Full Version : Psychic Hunter (3.5 Psionic Ranger, PEACH)



TabletopNuke
2009-12-10, 04:17 PM
Psychic Hunter
I scoured the web for a ranger variant that replaced the magic and animal-flavored features with psionics, but left the core mechanics in place. My search left me unsatisfied, so I had no option but to make my own.

I created the psychic hunter because the spellcasting, animal-focused ranger didn't fit the flavor I wanted at all. I considered the nonspellcasting ranger, but I still wanted the class to have supernatural buff abilities. In addition, I wanted to make a full BAB psionic class.

I tried to convert the ranger spellcasting to psionics progression as best I could, using the Warmind (EPH) and Zerth Cenobite (CP) for reference. Do they look alright? If anyone knows a of spellcasting-to-psionics conversion formula, I'd greatly appreciate hearing it.

I replaced Wild Empathy with Fortified Body. The ranger's Animal Companion was replaced with Expert Hunting. Do these look like balanced changes?

For flavor purposes, Endurance was replaced with Speed of Thought, and the Will is a good save, rather than Fortitude. Psychic hunters focus on more mental capability and less on physical than other rangers, afterall. I also replaced the combat style feats with psionic ones.

Sorry, no fluff for this (like that's what you came for).

Game Rule Information:
Abilities: Psychic hunters value physical capability, Dexterity for defense, Constitution for durability, and Strength for melee. In addition, Wisdom powers their psionic manifesting, and improves their tracking skills.
Alignment: Any
Hit Dice: D8

Class Skills:
Autohypnosis (Wis), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Heal (Wis), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (Dungeoneering) (Int), Knowledge (Geography) (Int), Knowledge (Nature) (Int), Knowledge (Psionics) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Wis), Search (Int), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str), Use Rope (Dex)
Skill Points at 1st Level: (6 + Int modifier) X 4
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 6 + Int modifier


Psychic Hunter
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|Power Points/Day|Powers Known|Maximum Power Level Known

1st|
+1|
+0|
+2|
+2|1st favored enemy, Sixth Sense, Track, Wild Talent|
-|
-|
-

2nd|
+2|
+0|
+3|
+3|Psychic combat style|
-|
-|
-

3rd|
+3|
+1|
+3|
+3|Speed of Thought|
-|
-|
-

4th|
+4|
+1|
+4|
+4|Expert hunting|
0|
1|
1st

5th|
+5|
+1|
+4|
+4|2nd favored enemy|
0|
1|
1st

6th|
+6/+1|
+2|
+5|
+5|Improved psychic combat style|
0|
1|
1st

7th|
+7/+2|
+2|
+5|
+5|Woodland stride|
1|
2|
1st

8th|
+8/+3|
+2|
+6|
+6|Swift tracker|
2|
3|
2nd

9th|
+9/+4|
+3|
+6|
+6|Evasion|
3|
3|
2nd

10th|
+10/+5|
+3|
+7|
+7|3rd favored enemy|
4|
3|
2nd

11th|
+11/+6/+1|
+3|
+7|
+7|Psychic combat style mastery|
5|
4|
3rd

12th|
+12/+7/+2|
+4|
+8|
+8|-|
6|
4|
3rd

13th|
+13/+8/+3|
+4|
+8|
+8|Camouflage|
8|
4|
3rd

14th|
+14/+9/+4|
+4|
+9|
+9|-|
11|
5|
4th

15th|
+15/+10/+5|
+5|
+9|
+9|4th favored enemy|
13|
5|
4th

16th|
+16/+11/+6/+1|
+5|
+9|
+9|-|
15|
5|
4th

17th|
+17/+12/+7/+2|
+5|
+10|
+10|Hide in plain sight|
19|
5|
4th

18th|
+18/+13/+8/+3|
+6|
+11|
+11|-|
21|
5|
4th

19th|
+19/+14/+9/+4|
+6|
+11|
+11|-|
23|
5|
4th

20th|
+20/+15/+10/+5|
+6|
+12|
+12|5th favored enemy|
24|
5|
4th [/table]


Class Features:

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A psychic hunter is proficient with all simple weapons and martial weapons, and with light armor, but not with shields.

Favored Enemy (Ex): At 1st level, a psychic hunter may select a type of creature from among those given on page 47 of the Playerís Handbook. The psychic hunter gains a +2 bonus on Bluff, Listen, Sense Motive, Spot, and Survival checks when using these skills against creatures of this type. Likewise, he gets a +2 bonus on weapon damage rolls against such creatures.

At 5th level and every five levels thereafter (10th, 15th, and 20th level), the psychic hunter may select an additional favored enemy from those given on the table. In addition, at each such interval, the bonus against any one favored enemy (including the one just selected, if so desired) increases by 2.

If the psychic hunter chooses humanoids or as a favored enemy, he must also choose an associated subtype, as indicated on the table. If a specific creature falls into more than one category of favored enemy, the psychic hunterís bonuses do not stack; he simply uses whichever bonus is higher.

Track: A psychic hunter gains Track (PH 101) as a bonus feat.

Sixth Sense (Su): As a full-found action, you can expend your psionic focus to detect and pinpoint all creatures that are not mindless (anything with an intelligence of 1 or higher) within a range of 5 feet per class level. This ability works like blindsense. You know what square each thinking creature is in, but you cannot see them, and they still have total concealment unless you can see them through other means.

Wild Talent: A psychic hunter gains Wild Talent (EPH 52) as a bonus feat.

Psychic Combat Style (Ex): At 2nd level, a psychic hunter must select one of two psychic combat styles to pursue: psychic archery or psychic melee. This choice affects the characterís class features but does not restrict his selection of feats or special abilities in any way.

If the psychic hunter selects archery, he gains Psionic Shot (EPH 50) as a bonus feat, even if he does not have the normal prerequisites for that feat.
If the psychic hunter selects psychic melee, he gains Psionic Weapon (EPH 50) as a bonus feat, even if he does not have the normal prerequisites for that feat.

Speed of Thought: At 3rd level, a psychic hunter gains Speed of Thought (EPH 51) as a bonus feat.

Power Points/Day: A psychic hunterís ability to manifest powers is limited by the power points he has available. His base daily allotment of power points is given on the table above. This number does not include the power points gained from the Wild Talent feat. In addition, he receives bonus power points per day if he has a high Wisdom score (EPH 18). His race may also provide bonus power points per day, as may certain feats and items. A psychic hunter of 6th level or lower gains no power points for his class level, but he gains bonus power points (if he is entitled to any), and can manifest the single power he knows with those power points.

Powers Known: A psychic hunter begins play without knowing any powers. Beginning at 4th level, a psychic hunter learns one power of the playerís choice, chosen from the Psychic Warrior list (EPH 73). As he goes up in level, he continues to unlock knowledge of new powers as shown on the psychic hunter class table. A psychic hunter can manifest any power that has a power point cost equal to or lower than his manifester level. Through 3rd level, a psychic hunter has no manifester level. At 4th level and higher, his caster level equals Ĺ his class level.

The total number of powers a psychic hunter can manifest in a day is limited only by his daily power points.

A psychic hunter simply knows his powers; they are ingrained in his mind. He does not need to prepare them (in the way that some spellcasters prepare their spells), though he must get a good nightís sleep each day to regain all his spent power points.

The Difficulty Class for saving throws against psychic hunter powers is 10 + the powerís level + the psychic hunterís Wisdom modifier.

Maximum Power Level Known: A psychic hunter begins play without the ability to learn powers. At 4th level, he gains the ability to learn 1st level powers. As he attains higher levels, he gains the ability to master more complex powers.

To learn or manifest a power, a psychic hunter must have a Wisdom score of at least 10 + the powerís level.

Expert Hunting (Ex): At 4th level a psychic hunterís favored enemy bonus applies on attack rolls against such creatures.

Improved Psychic Combat Style (Ex): At 6th level, a psychic hunterís aptitude in his chosen psychic combat style (psychic archery or psychic melee) improves. If he selected psychic archery at 2nd level, he gains Greater Psionic Shot (EPH 47), even if he does not have the normal prerequisites for that feat.

If the psychic hunter selected psychic melee combat at 2nd level, he gains Greater Psionic Weapon (EPH 47), even if he does not have the normal prerequisites for that feat.

Woodland Stride (Ex): Starting at 7th level, a psychic hunter may move through any sort of undergrowth (such as natural thorns, briars, overgrown areas, and similar terrain) at his normal speed and without taking damage or suffering any other impairment.

However, thorns, briars, and overgrown areas that are enchanted or magically manipulated to impede motion still affect him.

Swift Tracker (Ex): Beginning at 8th level, a psychic hunter can move at his normal speed while following tracks without taking the normal -5 penalty. He takes only a -10 penalty (instead of the normal -20) when moving at up to twice normal speed while tracking.

Evasion (Ex): At 9th level, a psychic hunter can avoid even magical and unusual attacks with great agility. If he makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, he instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if the psychic hunter is wearing light armor or no armor. A helpless psychic hunter does not gain the benefit of evasion.

Psychic Combat Style Mastery (Ex): At 11th level, a psychic hunterís aptitude in his chosen combat style (psychic archery or psychic melee) improves again. If he selected psychic archery at 2nd level, he gains Fell Shot (EPH 46) as a bonus feat, even if he doesn't meet the prerequisites.

If the psychic hunter selected psychic melee at 2nd level, he gains Deep Impact (EPH 45) as a bonus feat, even if he doesn't meet the prerequisites.

Camouflage (Ex): A psychic hunter of 13th level or higher can use the Hide skill in any sort of natural terrain, even if the terrain doesnít grant cover or concealment.

Hide in Plain Sight (Ex): While in any sort of natural terrain, a psychic hunter of 17th level or higher can use the Hide skill even while being observed.

appending_doom
2009-12-10, 07:30 PM
This is an interesting class variant.

One suggestion: maybe you should add "psionic combat styles" -- the Psionic Shot and Psionic Weapon feats, e.g. I think the nature of the feats makes for a really nice ambush-type ranger, which might be a neat way to differentiate the ranger and psionic variant.

Lappy9000
2009-12-10, 07:39 PM
Could you first do me a huge favor and un-spoiler the class features? It's a huge annoyance of mine, since it's the bread and butter of the class. I'd be most appreciative if you could :smallcool:

Firstly, if you need some inspiration, try Fax Celestis' Hunter (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48591) class. It can be re-worked to 3.5 with ease (heck, I'll do it for you, if you want).

Couple things:
* I'm not so sure about Fortified Body. A player will likely just wonder why they didn't just get an altered progression (I've seen it used before).
* With the level of psionic bonus feats, a player may just want to multiclass Ranger with Psychic warrior and be done with it. Wouldn't even really hurt their power progression that much with the few powers these guys get.
* It's the ranger and psychic warrior fused together. Nothing wrong with it at all; just nothing particularly interesting. For its intended purposes, it does just fine :smallcool:

TabletopNuke
2009-12-10, 09:48 PM
One suggestion: maybe you should add "psionic combat styles" -- the Psionic Shot and Psionic Weapon feats, e.g.
I was thinking about it, but I wasn't sure how to make that fit with the "combat styles don't function in medium or heavy armor" rule. Any thoughts?

I think the nature of the feats makes for a really nice ambush-type ranger, which might be a neat way to differentiate the ranger and psionic variant.
Ambush? I'm intrigued. Please elaborate.


Could you first do me a huge favor and un-spoiler the class features? It's a huge annoyance of mine, since it's the bread and butter of the class. I'd be most appreciative if you could :smallcool:
I didn't want to make the entry too cluttered. I'll go fix it.

Firstly, if you need some inspiration, try Fax Celestis' Hunter (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48591) class. It can be re-worked to 3.5 with ease (heck, I'll do it for you, if you want). I just checked it out. It's neat, but not quite what I had in mind. One of the reasons I made this was the frequent complaint about the lack of a full-BAB psionic class. I also like the ranger's ability to chose between melee or ranged specialization.

Couple things:
* I'm not so sure about Fortified Body. A player will likely just wonder why they didn't just get an altered progression (I've seen it used before).
* With the level of psionic bonus feats, a player may just want to multiclass Ranger with Psychic warrior and be done with it. Wouldn't even really hurt their power progression that much with the few powers these guys get.
* It's the ranger and psychic warrior fused together. Nothing wrong with it at all; just nothing particularly interesting. For its intended purposes, it does just fine :smallcool:
What does "altered progression" mean?

I was worried about overpowering the power progression. I limited the power level to 4, since that's the highest level rangers get, and I gave the class access to higher-level powers at the same level rangers get higher-level spells. What do you suggest I do to beef it up? Should I go all-out and give it the psychic warrior's power point supply? Increase the powers known?

How should I spice it up?

Lappy9000
2009-12-10, 10:12 PM
I didn't want to make the entry too cluttered. I'll go fix it.<3


What does "altered progression" mean?

I was worried about overpowering the power progression. I limited the power level to 4, since that's the highest level rangers get, and I gave the class access to higher-level powers at the same level rangers get higher-level spells.Just that you give them a progression that's not used in core, but if you don't wanna overdo Fortitude saves, then it's fine.


What do you suggest I do to beef it up? Should I go all-out and give it the psychic warrior's power point supply? Increase the powers known?Well, it honestly doesn't really need beefing up; it's probably just a bit above the Psychic Warrior, but not enough to really warrant concern.


How should I spice it up?One thing you can do is give the hunter a really neat capstone, I'll try to think of some, but it's difficult without fluff (and yes, I really do look for that :smalltongue:).

Otherwise, I'm not sure. The class is a psionic ranger, and does a good job of it. Just not my cup of tea, that's all.

appending_doom
2009-12-10, 10:51 PM
I was thinking about it, but I wasn't sure how to make that fit with the "combat styles don't function in medium or heavy armor" rule. Any thoughts?

Ambush? I'm intrigued. Please elaborate.

I just mean that the ability to create a very high damage attack, combined with the ranger's hiding abilities, would make a Psionic Shot (especially) ranger good with sniping, while the same progression in Psionic Weapon would make a guerrilla fighter effective/necessary.

TabletopNuke
2009-12-10, 11:31 PM
Just that you give them a progression that's not used in core, but if you don't wanna overdo Fortitude saves, then it's fine.

It's a replacement for Wild Empathy, which is class level-based. A Fort bonus seems much more powerful than the Wild Empathy, so I didn't want to make it too big.


Well, it honestly doesn't really need beefing up; it's probably just a bit above the Psychic Warrior, but not enough to really warrant concern.

How do you measure that? I'm uncertain about using ClassCalc (http://rpg.hmimages.com/classcalc.cfm) for psionic classes, what with the 3.5 changes. I certainly don't want my classes to be overpowered.


One thing you can do is give the hunter a really neat capstone, I'll try to think of some, but it's difficult without fluff (and yes, I really do look for that :smalltongue:).

I intended for the psychic hunter to serve a similar role to the typical ranger, a warrior skilled in stealth and wilderness survival. However, rather than augmenting this with a connection to animals and the magic of nature, psychic hunters hone the power of their minds.

This bit of fluff probably doesn't apply to psychic hunters in other settings:

In my Breakdown setting, Earth is fairly similar to ours. The supernatural is an unknown concept to among most humans, normally devoid of supernatural abilities. However, the military has secretly developed cybernetic implants that allow the user to develop psychic powers.

The results of this technology were the psibers (who I haven't made a page for yet, but stats are similar to elans from EPH). The psibers are an integral part of the armed forces. Many of them are psychic hunters, serving as elite scouts, commandos, and snipers.


Otherwise, I'm not sure. The class is a psionic ranger, and does a good job of it. Just not my cup of tea, that's all.

Does a good job? That's good to hear. And what, pray tell, is your cup of tea?


I just mean that the ability to create a very high damage attack, combined with the ranger's hiding abilities, would make a Psionic Shot (especially) ranger good with sniping, while the same progression in Psionic Weapon would make a guerrilla fighter effective/necessary.

I like the idea a lot, but I'm not sure about the balance. What if I got rid of the usual Combat Style options and replaced them with Psionic Shot and Psionic Weapon feat chains, without the armor restriction? They don't have proficiency with heavier armor anyway, and need psionic focus to use the feats.

Edit: Oh, and the Psionic Shot/Weapon feat chains have much, much less demanding prerequisites. I kinda feel that in itself justifies removal of the armor restriction.

Lappy9000
2009-12-11, 12:12 AM
How do you measure that? I'm uncertain about using ClassCalc (http://rpg.hmimages.com/classcalc.cfm) for psionic classes, what with the 3.5 changes. I certainly don't want my classes to be overpowered.Eyeballing it :smalltongue:

I know RaceCALC works pretty well, but I'm not so sure about ClassCalc. It can give a ballpark estimate decently, though.


In my Breakdown setting, Earth is fairly similar to ours. The supernatural is an unknown concept to among most humans, normally devoid of supernatural abilities. However, the military has secretly developed cybernetic implants that allow the user to develop psychic powers.

The results of this technology were the psibers (who I haven't made a page for yet, but stats are similar to elans from EPH). The psibers are an integral part of the armed forces. Many of them are psychic hunters, serving as elite scouts, commandos, and snipers.Ooh, then you need to employ some tech aspects into this class. Granted, 3.5 isn't the best for Sci-Fi games, in my experience, unless you're using d20 Modern.


Does a good job? That's good to hear. And what, pray tell, is your cup of tea?It certainly does! And my cup of tea is "simplistic yet innovative mechanics that work well with fluff to create a unique class experience."

Mulletmanalive
2009-12-11, 07:39 AM
My most obvious question is why the seperation between this and the invocation wielding psionic, whose name escapes me, class?

Beyond that, i'd suggest a class Power list, to avoid the "Mikaru Beam" thing of a ranger running around shoving energy push into every available oriface of his enemies...

You probably could have achieved what you wanted using a bonus feat list every 4 levels focusing on Psionic Feats, especially including things like Inquisitor and so forth [for tracking] and some of the abilities of the Mindspy perhaps...

I pass comment mostly from experience with my own Homebrew, that the more systems that you use in a game [if you look at my Le Cirque Funeste you'll see that everything, more or less, is unique] to the effect that only the optimisers and powergamers will be bothered enough to learn how all the other classes work and figure out how to fight them effectively. This sounds like more of a disadvantage in what's supposed to be a well educated Sci-Fi setting.

appending_doom
2009-12-11, 06:47 PM
I like the idea a lot, but I'm not sure about the balance. What if I got rid of the usual Combat Style options and replaced them with Psionic Shot and Psionic Weapon feat chains, without the armor restriction? They don't have proficiency with heavier armor anyway, and need psionic focus to use the feats.

Edit: Oh, and the Psionic Shot/Weapon feat chains have much, much less demanding prerequisites. I kinda feel that in itself justifies removal of the armor restriction.

I think replacing weapon feat chains helps to differentiate the class, and definitely creates a distinct way for psionic rangers to optimize.

And I don't see problems with giving low-prerequisite feats without restriction (especially as the main reason for the armor restriction for rangers appears to be the high Dex they'd normally need for their builds).

And yeah, psionic focus is a really nice balancing feature for anything -- it requires effort to create and has to be lost in order to do a lot of nifty things.

I'm not certain there's much call for a different power list -- the psychic warrior power list has a lot of thematically-appropriate stuff. Speed, endurance, hiding, empowering natural weapons, the like.

On that note, was there a strong reason for abandoning animal companions? A psychic ranger might have the ability to power up an animal companion to be a real threat.

Haven
2009-12-11, 07:00 PM
I like it. My first instinct is that he should have a list of powers he can learn, though, as being able to learn powers from all disciplines is an advantage no other class gets.

However, for some reason, the idea of the lack of restriction just appeals to me. I like the versatility, and since they only learn five powers ever it's not too bad (that's one disadvantage it has from the ranger, but I think overall it's slightly more powerful in other ways so it balances out).

Also, you should give it a small power point pool to start off with--even if it's 0, so they can gain bonus PP from Wisdom--otherwise they can't make use of Fortified Body or Speed of Thought til level 4, as they can't become psionically focused til then.

I notice you have some dead levels. I know rangers do too, but maybe handing out a few more bonus feats? If you don't want to just say "free bonus psionic feat" I'd suggest Up the Walls, Psionic Charge and Psionic Body--nothing too spectacular for the levels they're gained at, but still nice little extras.

TabletopNuke
2009-12-11, 07:24 PM
Ooh, then you need to employ some tech aspects into this class. Granted, 3.5 isn't the best for Sci-Fi games, in my experience, unless you're using d20 Modern.

I plan to rework magic items and UA's incantations into special technology. I also want to create a "Techcrafter" class by reworking the Artificer.

Once I have a good base for the high-tech stuff, I'll be posting a skill update for all the classes available in the campaign. I'm thinking tech-related skills will include Knowledge (Technology), Techcraft, and Use Technological Device.

Psychic Hunter in and of itself isn't a tech specialty class. So I don't plan on giving it any tech-themed features.


My most obvious question is why the seperation between this and the invocation wielding psionic, whose name escapes me, class?

Beyond that, i'd suggest a class Power list, to avoid the "Mikaru Beam" thing of a ranger running around shoving energy push into every available oriface of his enemies...

You probably could have achieved what you wanted using a bonus feat list every 4 levels focusing on Psionic Feats, especially including things like Inquisitor and so forth [for tracking] and some of the abilities of the Mindspy perhaps...
The mindscourge is a specialty psychic, with more of an instinctual link to their power than other psychics.

I created the psychic hunter because the spellcasting, animal-focused ranger didn't fit the flavor I wanted at all. I considered the nonspellcasting ranger, but I still wanted the class to have supernatural buff abilities. In addition, I wanted to make a full BAB psionic class.

The psychic hunter doesn't have many power points, and and only has 1/2 class level manifester level. I don't think that's gonna be a problem.


I pass comment mostly from experience with my own Homebrew, that the more systems that you use in a game Le Cirque Funeste[/thread] you'll see that everything, more or less, is unique] to the effect that only the optimisers and powergamers will be bothered enough to learn how all the other classes work and figure out how to fight them effectively. This sounds like more of a disadvantage in what's supposed to be a well educated Sci-Fi setting.

Circus campaign? Awesome.

I'm planning to use magic, psionics, and technology (reworked magic items, artificer, and incarnum). I'm looking to Eberron to get an idea of how to set up the setting mechanics.

Humans use technology, and a little psionics. Other societies use magic, or more psionics. Do you really think that's a problem? What do you suggest I do to prevent overwhelming the gamers?


I think replacing weapon feat chains helps to differentiate the class, and definitely creates a distinct way for psionic rangers to optimize.

And I don't see problems with giving low-prerequisite feats without restriction (especially as the main reason for the armor restriction for rangers appears to be the high Dex they'd normally need for their builds).

And yeah, psionic focus is a really nice balancing feature for anything -- it requires effort to create and has to be lost in order to do a lot of nifty things.

I'm not certain there's much call for a different power list -- the psychic warrior power list has a lot of thematically-appropriate stuff. Speed, endurance, hiding, empowering natural weapons, the like.

On that note, was there a strong reason for abandoning animal companions? A psychic ranger might have the ability to power up an animal companion to be a real threat.

I'll go change the feats.

I didn't include animal companions because the class has less of a bond with nature than the standard ranger. Also, Breakdown has much more urban activity than the standard setting.


I like it. My first instinct is that he should have a list of powers he can learn, though, as being able to learn powers from [i]all disciplines is an advantage no other class gets.

I don't think that's right. The psion sub-classes each have a specialized list, but they also have access to the main psion/wilder list.


I notice you have some dead levels. I know rangers do too, but maybe handing out a few more bonus feats? If you don't want to just say "free bonus psionic feat" I'd suggest Up the Walls, Psionic Charge and Psionic Body--nothing too spectacular for the levels they're gained at, but still nice little extras.

How would I balance out filling the dead levels?

Haven
2009-12-11, 07:40 PM
I don't think that's right. The psion sub-classes each have a specialized list, but they also have access to the main psion/wilder list.

Do they? I'm fairly sure psychic warriors can only draw from their own list. Even if that's true, though, there's still the fact that not even psions can draw from outside their own speciality.


How would I balance out filling the dead levels?

Well, maybe have those as an option in campaigns where these (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cwc/20061013a) rules are being used.

TabletopNuke
2009-12-11, 08:16 PM
Do they? I'm fairly sure psychic warriors can only draw from their own list. Even if that's true, though, there's still the fact that not even psions can draw from outside their own speciality.

If psions could only cast out of their own discipline, the Psion/Wilder power list would be called the Wilder list.

The way it was presented in the EPH was really confusing to me too, especially since there are no sample characters in the prestige class chapter. But Complete Psionic does have examples. I checked that out. The psions do have access to spells outside their discipline. For example, the sample Ectopic Adept is a shaper. His powers known list includes freedom of movement, dimension door, and mental disruption, among other non-shaper powers.


Well, maybe have those as an option in campaigns where these (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cwc/20061013a) rules are being used.

I've seen no dead levels variant, but I wasn't to keen on it. It seems more like an extra burden to keep track of than something players would enjoy. I've never actually played with it though. What kind of experience have you guys had with it? Did you guys like it or hate it?

Mulletmanalive
2009-12-11, 08:57 PM
While i have no idea why this discussion is taking place [given that the class presented here uses the Psychic Warrior power list [Dissolving weapon Ho!]], Haven refers to the fact that Psions choose a Discipline and cannot cross branch. Wilders don't get access to this, nor do most other classes.
As i said, this class doesn't get access to Telepath, Shaper or the like, so i have no idea why this was under discussion to lead to a misunderstanding...

I hadn't realised that you were keeping normal Psionics [i've not read the setting write up and not noticed anything of that ilk in the Mindscourge description].

As it is, i will merely shrug. Though irrelivent, you could have changed the spells to spell like abilities and said that it wasn't magic but technology, like add ons to armour...

Haven
2009-12-11, 08:58 PM
If psions could only cast out of their own discipline, the Psion/Wilder power list would be called the Wilder list.

The way it was presented in the EPH was really confusing to me too, especially since there are no sample characters in the prestige class chapter. But Complete Psionic does have examples. I checked that out. The psions do have access to spells outside their discipline. For example, the sample Ectopic Adept is a shaper. His powers known list includes freedom of movement, dimension door, and mental disruption, among other non-shaper powers.

Psions can use the powers on the Psion/Wilder list, but that's because those are the generic ones. I was referring to the fact that they can't pick the discipline-specific powers outside their chosen discipline (for instance, that shaper doesn't have any powers that aren't either Shaper powers or generic Psion powers).

Here's the most relevant SRD passage:


Every psion must decide at 1st level which psionic discipline he will specialize in. Choosing a discipline provides a psion with access to the class skills associated with that discipline (see above), as well as the powers restricted to that discipline. However, choosing a discipline also means that the psion cannot learn powers that are restricted to other disciplines. He canít even use such powers by employing psionic items.

TabletopNuke
2009-12-11, 09:35 PM
I hadn't realised that you were keeping normal Psionics [i've not read the setting write up and not noticed anything of that ilk in the Mindscourge description].

As it is, i will merely shrug. Though irrelivent, you could have changed the spells to spell like abilities and said that it wasn't magic but technology, like add ons to armour...

Sorry, I didn't realize that would cause confusion. Just like most setting that include warlocks also include regular magic, I figured that a setting with mindscourges would also include standard psionics.

Spells to spell-like abilities? I'm a little lost. What are you referring to?


Now, back on topic:

Dead levels? Should I leave them, or add in very minor abilities?

imp_fireball
2010-03-02, 02:53 PM
It's a replacement for Wild Empathy, which is class level-based. A Fort bonus seems much more powerful than the Wild Empathy, so I didn't want to make it too big.

Hm... maybe give it a similar telepathic ability, like minor blind sense to anything 3 int or above? After all, it's a psionic class.

At later levels you could expend your psionic focus and use a full action to increase the radius for that round and pin point one given creature including surface thoughts, assuming you have sensed their mind before (sensed as in, put them in range of blind sense or perhaps used a mind affecting power)?

TabletopNuke
2010-03-04, 12:07 AM
Hm... maybe give it a similar telepathic ability, like minor blind sense to anything 3 int or above? After all, it's a psionic class.

At later levels you could expend your psionic focus and use a full action to increase the radius for that round and pin point one given creature including surface thoughts, assuming you have sensed their mind before (sensed as in, put them in range of blind sense or perhaps used a mind affecting power)?

How's this look for a Wild Empathy replacement? Too powerful?
Psychic Sense:
As a full-found action, you can expend your psionic focus to detect and pinpoint all creatures that are not mindless (anything with an intelligence of 1 or higher) within a range of 5 feet per class level. This ability works like blindsense. You know what square each thinking creature is in, but you cannot see them, and they still have total concealment unless you can see them through other means.