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Hurlbut
2009-12-11, 05:49 PM
Dwarven Defender
Fearsome warriors, dwarven defender are rare even among their folk. Their durability and toughness are legendary. They are are feared for their abilities to take blows that would fell a weaker race and do their duty even unto Death.
Only dwarves can become dwarven defender, they are usually fighters, some paladins taking up the call are not unheard of.

Role: Dwarven Defenders have the ability to take anything thrown at them and endure them while they go to work on hacking away at their opponents.

Alighment: Lawful

Hit Die: d12

REQUIREMENTS
To qualify to become a defender, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.

Race: Dwarf
Base Attack Bonus: +5 (changed from +7)
Feats: Dodge, Endurance, Toughness

Class Skills
The defender’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Craft (Int), Listen (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), and Spot (Wis).
Skill Ranks at Each Level: 2 + Int modifier.

{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Refl|Will|Special
1st|+1|+2|+0|+2|Stalwart Stance
2nd|+2|+3|+0|+3|Uncanny dodge
3rd|+3|+3|+1|+3|Damage Reduction 2/-, Dodge Bonus +1
4th|+4|+4|+1|+4|Spell Sense +1
5th|+5|+4|+1|+4|Shrug It Off
6th|+6|+5|+2|+5|Damage Reduction 4/-, Improved Uncanny Dodge, Dodge Bonus +2
7th|+7|+5|+2|+5|Improved Stalwart Stance
8th|+8|+6|+2|+6|Surprise Rush, Spell Sense +2
9th|+9|+6|+3|+6|Damage Reduction 6/-, Dodge Bonus +3
10th|+10|+7|+3|+7|Most Stubborn[/table]

Class Feature

All of the following are class features of the vanguard.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency
A dwarven defender is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, all types of armor, and shields.

Stalwart Stance
He can use the stalwart stance for a number of rounds per day equal to 4 + Constitution modifier. At each level after first, he can use stalwart stance for 1 additional round. Temporary increases to Constitution, such as those gained from stance, rage, and spells like bear’s endurance, do not increase the total number of rounds that a dwarven defender can use stalwart stance per day. A dwarven defender can enter stalwart stance as a fee action. The total number of rounds of stalwart stance per day is renewed after resting for 8 hours, although these hours do not need to be consecutive.
While in stalwart stance, a defender gains phenomenal strength and durability. He gains +2 to Strength, +4 to Constitution, +4 Dodge bonus to his AC and can add his newly modified Constitution Bonus to AC instead of his Dexterity Bonus. The dwarven defender loses this Constitution bonus to his Armor Class whenever he would normally be denied his Dexterity bonus to AC. In such a situation, the dwarven defender would still be considered flat-footed.
The increase in Constitution increases the defender’s hit points by 2 points per level, but these hit points go away at the end of the stalwart stance when the Constitution score drops back 4 points. These extra hit points are not lost first the way temporary hit points are.
A defender can end he stance as a free action and is fatigued after stalwaft stance for a number of rounds equal to 2 times the number of rounds spent in the stalwart stance. A defender cannot enter a stalwart stance while fatigued or exhausted but can otherwise enter stalwart stance multiple times during a single encounter or combat. If a defender falls unconscious, his stalwart stance immediately ends, placing him in peril of death.

Uncanny Dodge (Ex)
Starting at 2nd level, a dwarven defender retains his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) regardless of being caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. (He still loses any Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized.)
If a character gains uncanny dodge from a second class, the character automatically gains improved uncanny dodge (see below).

Damage Reduction (Ex)
At 3rd level, a dwarven defender gains damage reduction. Subtract 2 points from the damage the dwarven defender takes each time he is dealt damage. At 6th level, this damage reduction rises to 4/- and at 9th level to 6/-. Damage reduction can reduce damage to 0 but not below 0.

Dodge Bonus (Ex)
The dwarven defender receives a dodge bonus to Armor Class that starts at +1 at 3rd Level and improves to +2 at 6th and +3 at 9th.

Spell Sense (Ex)
At 4th level, a dwarven defender gains a +1 bonus on saves made against spells and spell-like effects and a +1 dodge bonus to AC against touch attacks by spells and spell like effects. At 8th level, these bonuses rise to +2.

Shrug It Off (Ex)
At 5th level and higher, a dwarven defender can scorn death and unconsciousness while in stalwart stance. As long as his stance continues, he is not treated as disabled at 0 hit points, nor is he treated as dying at -1 to -9 hit points. Even if reduced to -10 hit points or less, he continues to fight normally until his stance ends. At that point, the effects of his wounds apply normally if they have not been healed. This ability does not prevent death from massive damage or from spell effects such as slay living or disintegrate.

Improved Uncanny Dodge (Ex)
At 6th level, a dwarven defender can no longer be flanked. This defense denies rogues the ability to use flank attacks to sneak attack the dwarven defender.

The exception to this defense is that a rogue at least four levels higher than the dwarven defender can flank him (and thus sneak attack him).

If a character gains uncanny dodge (see above) from a second class the character automatically gains improved uncanny dodge, and the levels from those classes stack to determine the minimum rogue level required to flank the character.

Improved Stalwart Stance (Ex)
At 7th level, his bonuses to his Strength and Constitution increases to +4 and +6 while in stalwart stance. He may avoid becoming fatigued upon leaving stalwart stance by rolling a Constiution check. The DC is 10+two times the number of rounds spent in stalwart stance. The bonus from Endurance may be included on his roll.

Counter Attack Rush (Ex)
At 8th level, a dwarven defender’s base movement is doubled in the round after using a Fighting Defensively or Total Defense action for one round.

Most Stubborn (Ex)
At 10th level, a dwarven defender may add his Endurance bonus to saves made against death that would result from damage or death-causing effects such as the Death Attack from the assassin. 3 times per day he may reroll a failed saving throw against death attacks or spells and spell-like effects which cause damage that would put him at 0 HP or lower including disintegrate and slay living. This ability does not prevent death from damage through disintegrate or slay living even if he succeeded on his new saving throw. He must take the new second roll, it cannot be rerolled through this ability.

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Well it's not polished, so I appreciate some criticism.
I do have an ability in mind that can replace either Stubborn or Shrug It Off. I tried to make the PRC a little more player friendly so that it could be used outside dungeons or dwarven delvings.

Siosilvar
2009-12-11, 05:56 PM
Here's a table. You don't list multiple attacks in prestige classes because you don't know when they'll show up.

{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Refl|Will|Special
1st|+1|+2|+0|+2|Stalwart Stance
2nd|+2|+3|+0|+3|Uncanny dodge
3rd|+3|+3|+1|+3|Damage Reduction 2/-, Dodge Bonus +1
4th|+4|+4|+1|+4|Spell Sense +1
5th|+5|+4|+1|+4|Shrug It Off
6th|+6|+5|+2|+5|Damage Reduction 4/-, Improved Uncanny Dodge, Dodge Bonus +2
7th|+7|+5|+2|+5|Improved Stalwart Stance
8th|+8|+6|+2|+6|Surprise Rush, Spell Sense +2
9th|+9|+6|+3|+6|Damage Reduction 6/-, Dodge Bonus +3
10th|+10|+7|+3|+7|Most Stubborn[/table]

They can move during the stalwart stance, that's good.

Being knocked unconscious during a stalwart stance instantly kills you, that's not so good.

Dodge bonus is listed twice in the text.

6th level is stacked a little high.

Seems pretty good all-round, if a bit underpowered. But then again, I usually play ToB or casters.

Hurlbut
2009-12-11, 08:25 PM
What do you think about moving Improved UD to 5th or 7th level?


Being knocked unconscious during a stalwart stance instantly kills you, that's not so good. Well yeah if you had a lot of damage piled on and you're knocked out unconscious, you lost the focus and get screwed :smallbiggrin:.

Thanks for helping me to format my OP a bit.

Hurlbut
2009-12-12, 03:23 PM
I'm wondering if the lack of responses to this mean my version is neither excellent nor awful.

:durkon: maybe it mean that it's balanced.

Narmy
2009-12-12, 05:02 PM
Make ya a deal, rate mine and I'll rate yours?

I'll give you a review shortly.

Shrug it off might be too powerful

I may think that a will save or con check would be needed to stay up past -10

You hav Damage reduction listed again under Shrug it off. Might wanna remove that copy.

Seems perhaps a little powerful to me, but then again, seems darn good too.

SurlySeraph
2009-12-13, 03:28 PM
Let's see...


The Constitution bonus to AC cannot be more than his armorís Maximum Dexterity as normal for Dexterity.

I would remove this. Since a Dwarven Defender is almost definitely going to be wearing heavy armor, this would make getting Con to AC almost pointless unless he's wearing mithril armor.

You might want to lower the BAB requirement to +5, since this doesn't give you anything that would be overpowered two levels lower.

Other than that, I'd say it's good.

Cieyrin
2009-12-13, 03:35 PM
I agree with Seraph on the Max Dex to AC. Also, since you switch out Dex for Con, why not also ditch Dodge, as it thematically makes little sense for a Dwarven Defender, anyways. I'd also say switch Toughness for something else, as wasting a feat slot on 3 HP is virtually meaningless for them. Maybe Improved Toughness?

Frog Dragon
2009-12-13, 03:39 PM
Improved toughness counts as toughness for prereqs anyway so there's no need to do that.

Ponce
2009-12-13, 05:31 PM
I'm afraid I have trouble seeing this as an overly-large improvement on the original. Personally, I'd like to see this turned into a ToB PrC (which sort of was already done with Deepstone Sentinel).

Hurlbut
2009-12-13, 08:48 PM
SurlySeraph and Cieyrin: My apologies, I tweaked the PRC for the Pathfinder ruleset; the fighter's armor training improve the armor's maximum dexterity as you go up the levels. Also gear wise in the Pathfinder Chronicles Setting you have the field plate that give up 1 AB for +1 Max Dex compared to full plate.

Also the PF Toughness is essentially Improved Toughness :smallcool:.

I would keep Dodge in place because of the Dodge bonuses from several abilities the PRC has. If I drop the dodge feat, I would need to adjust the dodge bonuses to something else.

Ponce_LeRue: Well the biggest issue of the original PRC was that you were essentially stuck in one place when you used Defensive Stance, even if you could take 5 ft steps. :smallwink:

Narmy: the source for Shrug It Off came from the Frenzied Berserker's Deathless Frenzy. I don't like saddling it with a roll to stay conscious past -10,. If you follow this reasoning to conclusion, the roll would have to be made maybe once every round or every time he take damage and I don't want to do that.

Maybe a fixed threshold? I.E. If he has 120 HP normally, he can continue fighting down to -129 HP before he automatically die?

Roderick_BR
2009-12-13, 09:06 PM
It's interesting. You removed the movement limits. I'd say you just can't double move or run while in the stance mode, to keep the old theme, but it wouldn't hurt you too much (you can still move around, just can't reposition you across the battle field).

The Shrug it off looks like the Frenzied Berzerker's Deathless Frenzy. I think it's fine. There's a feat that keeps you goind between -1 and -9 as well, so being able to function at -10 is still good.

If the Con bonus to AC works only during the stance, I think you could allow it to bypass the armor's Dex limit. There's a PrC in the Races of Stone called Deepwarden, that at 2nd level permanently gives you Con to AC, that is not limited by armor.

I don't know how Counter Attack Rush works here, like, I understand making him move mobile, but giving him more speed than a regular dwarf doesn't sound right. Maybe give him something like Mettle? (the fort/will version of Evasion).

Hurlbut
2009-12-13, 09:16 PM
Roderick_BR: A dwarven barbarian have a base speed of 30 feet permamently, if he's not already wearing boots of striding and springing (for 40ft speed, 30ft for other dwarven characters). The Counter Attack Rush's bonus is limited to 1 round and is conditional on the defender taking a Fighting Defensively or Total Defense action the round before.



Okay since at least three of you have agreed on the Con bonus issue, I'll remove the Armor's Max Dexterity clause.

Ponce
2009-12-14, 07:40 AM
I'm not convinced that lifting the movement restriction is sufficient. This puts it on par with something like the Barbarian, so in a core-only gave this new DD makes for a decent option. To be frank, though, with the power creep introduced by splatbooks, this class really begins to pale in comparison. It simply doesn't have any potency, and if you spend 10 levels purely on defenses, you still run into the issue of "I can't be hit, but nobody would bother anyway." I'm strongly in favour of seeing some Devoted Spirit / Stone Dragon thrown on here, and maybe cut back the awful feat requirements. You're pretty much relying on feats for offensive techniques at the moment, and as a 5th level dwarf, you don't get many going into this class. Three of them are tucked away on what are pretty much throw away feats, excepting maybe Improved Toughness. Even if you don't like ToB, it needs some method of staying RELEVANT in combat, not just staying ALIVE.

Cieyrin
2009-12-14, 06:18 PM
Improved toughness counts as toughness for prereqs anyway so there's no need to do that.

Since when? I don't recall any such text that would lead to such a conclusion in the feat. It's a nice house rule, sure, but by RAW they're entirely unrelated.

Hurlbut
2009-12-14, 11:01 PM
Since when? I don't recall any such text that would lead to such a conclusion in the feat. It's a nice house rule, sure, but by RAW they're entirely unrelated.It's a moot point if you play by Pathfinder ruleset though since Toughness is essentially Improved Toughness.

Cieyrin
2009-12-15, 06:29 PM
It's a moot point if you play by Pathfinder ruleset though since Toughness is essentially Improved Toughness.

Well sure but it would be nice to say that this is Pathfinder from the get go instead of making my poor mind spin in crazy circles. @_@