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View Full Version : A total rework of the magic system [3.5, Less WIP since 18/12/09, PEACH]



Random_person
2009-12-13, 02:00 AM
Right. I am biting the bullet and trying a complete overhaul of magic (yes another upstart who thinks their so great etc. etc.). I am basing this off of a series of books which I enjoyed, in which there are five forms of magic, each with advantages and disadvantages, and each governed by a small number of rules. My idea is that it will be possible to dabble in each, or get good at one, but there will always be a cost. The five forms of magic are:

Thaumaturgy
This is governed by two rules: That like action produces like action and that two objects that were once one retain a link which may be exploited thaumaturgically. For instance, if one were to shave a chip of a large stone basket, link the chip to the basket, and then move the chip, the basket would also move, albeit on a much larger scale. The disadvantages are that you need to form the link, and that it cannot actually make energy from nothing.

Alchemy
Just classical alchemy, with the caveat that every reaction has a chance to fizzle, and there is no way of stopping it. Governed by the famous Doctrine of Signatures.

Magic
This one is governed by one rule: that perfection, and only perfection, produces results. This magic is concerned with lengthy rituals which produce incredible results if done perfectly, and are useless if even a single misstep is made.

Sorcery
This magic is concerned with the mind, and causes illusions and enchantments. The rule is that a sorcery must be repeated thrice in order to take effect, and must be pronounced accurately each time. The disadvantages are that the resistance to and difficulty of pronouncing a sorcery increase with each repitition, and that this magic draws off of the caster's life force.

Wizardry
This magic draws demons (although I may change that to another kind of being), using two rules. Firstly, fire can break down boundaries between worlds (allowing the demons to get through) and secondly once a demon is through, the demon and wizard are locked in a battle of will until one of them is victorious and has complete control over the other.


So yeah. BIIIG project. However, I feel that it may work well in that it has built-in weaknesses for every form of magic. I have a couple of ideas which I am refining, but what do you people think of this as an endeavour?

Random_person
2009-12-13, 02:21 AM
Thaumaturgy

Fluffity fluff that I can't be bothered coming up with yet.

Hit die: d4

Table coming soon!

Thaumaturgy (Su):All thaumaturgy spells require a link to be forged between two objects, which are then manipulated by using the properties of one item to influence another, such as moving a chess piece around to move an uprooted tree, or linking a wax arm to an ally's arm to reshape it, healing it in the process. The base strength of a link ranges from 0 to 5, and is determined by four factors:

Shape: Be it a ball to a skull or a square of cloth to a wall, items of similar shape provide a stronger link, increasing the link strength by 1.

Size: This one is pretty simple; items that are roughly the same size provide a stronger link, increasing the link strength by 1.

Material: Objects that share at least one common material (such as a gold coin and a jeweled crown) provide a stronger link, increasing the link strength by 1. Multiple common materials do not stack.

Contagion: Pieces that were part of the same item in the last year (such as your friend and his finger, or two swords from the same mineral deposit) pair together easier, increasing the link strength by 2.

Example: You need to heal your buddy's broken arm. You take a portion of his flesh (he's in enough pain already... doubt he'd notice...) and insert it into a wax arm, which you then link to his arm. The wax arm is roughly the same shape as his arm (+1), has a similar material due to his flesh (+1), and since his flesh was a part of him within the last year, contagion applies (+2), leaving you with a base link strength of 4. Mould Body, Minor needs a base link of 3, so you can cast it and let the healing begin...

Linking objects is done automatically during casting. The link is severed at the end of the spell's duration, leaving behind a trace of residual magic. While this residue does not prevent future links, it does interfere with them, providing a penalty to the link strength equal to the power of the previous link.

Example: Your friend manages to break his arm again. Should you try to use the same arm, the residue from the previous link will reduce your new link by 4, giving you a link strength of 0. To overcome this, you'd either have to make a new arm, or make modifications to the wax arm in order to boost the strength of the link (such as making it the same size).

Enhance Link (Su): A thaumaturgist learns how to exploit links more fully as he increases in level. Starting at level 5, he may treat all links as if they were 1 grade higher. This bonus increases by 1 at 10th level and every 5 levels thereafter.

Spell Information

Range
In order to create a link, a thaumaturgist must be able to touch one of the objects and have line of effect to another, with no maximum distance between the objects. After the link is formed, the caster may move as he wishes; he does not need to remain near either linked object for the magic to function.

Link Strength
Thaumaturgic spells have a minimum link strength required in order to function, and will automatically fail if the link is too weak to sustain them.

However, there are spells that benefit from a stronger link. The effect varies by spell, and is included in the description.

Example Spell

Mould Body, Minor[/b]
Casting time: Free Action
Link Strength: 3+ factors
Saving throw: Fort negates (Harmless)
Duration: 1 round

By using this spell, a thaumaturgist attempts to reconstruct the wounded areas of an ally, removing some of the damage. As a standard action, the caster can attempt a Heal check (DC 15), with success healing the intended target 1d6 points of damage. Failure on the check instead deals 1d4 points of damage as the body is formed in ways nature never intended. The caster is treated as being under stress while casting this spell, denying them the ability to take 10 on the Heal check.
Augment: The caster gains an additional standard action for every point of link strength beyond 3. These extra actions can only be used to make additional Heal checks.

Mould Body
Casting time: Free Action
Link Strength: 5+ factors
Saving throw: Fort negates (Harmless)
Duration: 1 round

As Mould Body, Minor, except that each successful Heal check instead heals 1d10 points of damage, while each failed check deals 1d6.
Augment: As Mould Body, Minor.

Warp Body, Minor
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Link Strength: 2+ factors
Saving throw: Fort Negates
Duration: 1 round

This spell, called by some a perversion of Mould Body, allows a thaumaturgist to twist an enemy's flesh. The enemy takes 1d4 points of damage.
Augment: The spell endures for an additional round. The enemy takes damage at the start of each round that the spell is in effect.

Warp Body
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Link Strength: 4+ factors
Saving throw: Fort Negates
Duration: 1 round

As Warp Body, Minor, except that damage is 1d6.
Augment: The spell endures for an additional round. The enemy takes damage at the start of each round that the spell is in effect.

Puppet Dance
Casting Time: 1 full-round action
Link Strength: 7+ factors
Saving throw: Will Negates
Duration: Permanent

By means of this spell, a thaumaturgist takes control of a living target's body. The target of this spell immediately becomes aware of the caster on completion. While the spell is in effect, the caster may control the target. The caster may spend their own move actions to cause the target to move as the thaumaturgist dictates, within their normal limits. They may also spend standard actions to cause the target to attack at the caster's attack bonus, using the target's ability modifier in place of the caster's. The target receives a new save at the start of every round, but may not take their own actions.
Augment: If the link is one factor stronger than necessary, the target can act as normal under this spell even while fatigued or exhausted. If the link is two factors stronger than normal, then the target may make attacks of opportunity as for attack actions, and may make full attacks under the same rules. If the link is three factors stronger than normal, the target may be controlled for 1d4 rounds after death.

Spell Name
Casting Time:
Link Strength:
Saving throw:
Duration:

Augment:

More to follow!

Random_person
2009-12-13, 02:22 AM
Alchemy

Unlike other magics, alchemy is practicable far more easily than the others, and to represent this it is a skill instead of a class. A character with this skill may combine alchemical reagents in certain reactions to create things which are useful or harmful. Each reagent and reaction has a primary and one or more secondary effects which it contributes on a successful reaction, a primary effect for unsuccessful reactions, an adjustment to the base Alchemy DC (which is 5 before adjustments), a cost to obtain or perform, and a success chance that it contributes (these are multiplied together for all three portions). Reactions also have a time required entry. Certain reagents may not be used in certain reactions. Unless otherwise noted, a reagent is inert and useless alone. Also unless otherwise noted, no one alchemical item may deal damage contributed by more than one source. Note that it is possible to make more complicated alchemical items from previously created alchemical items. If the skill check is failed by less than five, the reaction may be attempted again. Otherwise, the reaction fails and no result is produced. If a reagent is to contribute only a secondary effect, it costs half normal. If it is to contribute both one secondary and primary, it costs half again the normal price. It is impossible for a reagent to contribute more than two effects to a reaction.

Reagents

Coal Dust
+0 DC
Success chance: 99/100
Cost: 1 gp
Primary successful effect: +5 on Spot checks to notice invisible creatures.
Secondary successful effect: +2 circumstance bonus to Hide.
Primary unsuccessful effect: DC 10 Fortitude save or blinded for one round.

Diamond Dust
+10 DC
Success chance: 3/4
Cost: 500 gp
Primary successful effect: True Seeing (as the spell) for one minute.
Secondary successful effect: +2 Natural Armor bonus for one minute.
Primary unsuccessful effect: Affected by slow, no save, duration one minute.

More to follow!

Reactions

Mixing
+0 DC
Success chance: 3/4
Cost: 0 gp
All effects and DCs of an item made by mixing are halved. The result is a liquid.

More to follow!

Random_person
2009-12-13, 02:23 AM
Magic

Fluffity fluff that I can't be bothered writing up yet.

Table coming soon!

Magic (Su): Magicians are able to create extremely powerful items of magic by means of painfully precise rituals. In general, a magic item will require a length of time to create determined by the cost under the rules laid out in the SRD. The cost in gold pieces is the time in days which will be required, although not all of this time will actually be spent in ritual. A magic item will require material outlay of 1/1000 of the final cost plus any actual physical material involved. Approximately one hour per week of time will be spent in ritual, although for magic items taking longer than a year this drops to one hour per month, and for those taking more than a century will be one hour per ten years. Each ritual will require a number of participants equal to the number of rituals required to create the finished item, all of whom will be required to succeed on a DC 20 check of some description, usually Perform(Singing), Balance, or concentration. The participants may not take ten on these checks, and if any one of them is failed the item is completely ruined.

Random_person
2009-12-13, 02:26 AM
Sorcery

Fluffity fluff that I can't be bothered writing up yet.

Hit die: d4

Table coming soon!

Sorcery (Su): A sorceror may apply the Rule of Three in order to influence a being's mind in some way. This requires that they spend the full casting time of their spell chanting. When casting a spell, a sorceror ages by a fraction of their lifespan determined by the individual spell (although some minor spells have an Age Cost of Negligable, meaning that there is no noticable effect). This aging may not be prevented in any way, and if a sorceror ever becomes immune to aging or unable to die by reaching their maximum age they lose the ability rto cast sorcerous spells permanently. When casting a spell on someone, a sorceror must maintain eye contact with the target. If the target is willing, this may be achieved automatically (barring extenuating circumstances). If the target is unwilling, the sorceror must make a ranged touch attack against the target's eyes (typically, the eyes will be two-three sizes smaller than the creature and will have all AC bonuses that the creature has for this purpose). At any rate, once the sorceror has established eye contact and begun their spell the sorceror must complete their incantation without breaking eye contact. This requires that the sorceror match the Concentration checks required by the spell (they may take ten on these checks if they would normally be allowed to do so). If a sorceror fails any of these checks, the spell is lost, but the sorceror ages only the secondary life cost from the casting. A sorceror may take other actions while casting, but suffers a -10 penalty to the concentration checks. Note that a sorceror may always cast a spell on themselves, treating themselves as willing targets and gaining an additional +2 bonus to the Concentration check.

Spells Known: A Sorceror begins play with only two+their Intelligence modifier spells of their choice known. These spells may not have a third concentration DC higher than 20. A sorceror may choose to spend at least 25 gp on incense in order to attempt to learn a new spell, or they may find a manuscript detailing such a spell. These manuscripts are never for sale. If a sorceror is attempting to learn a new spell alone, they must determine which spell they wish to learn. They must then make a Concentration check with a DC of double the spell's DC to learn the spell. They gain a +2 competence bonus to this check for every time that the cost of the incense is multiplied by 4. This process requires 2d4 hours of meditation. If this meditation is interrupted in any way, the sorceror must make one final Concentration check, this time with a DC of the third check of the spell that they desired to learn. If they fail, they are afflicted by Insanity, as the spell, for one day.

Dual Concentration (Ex): At fifth level, a sorceror learns how to maintain concentration on multiple things. A sorceror of fifth level or above gains a free standard action, which may only be used for maintaining concentration, every round.

Spells

Delusion, Minor
Casting time: 1 standard action
First Concentration DC: 8
Second Concentration DC: 10
Third Concentration DC: 12
Save: Will negates
Life Cost: Negligable
Duration: Concentration
This spell causes the target to see things which are not there. They believe that they see any on thing of the caster's choosing which fits within forty cubic feet. They may force the caster to remake the Concentration check by making the check themself, although they must consciously do so. If they do not take ten, the caster may not take ten either.

More to follow.

Random_person
2009-12-13, 02:28 AM
Wizardry

Fluffity fluff that I can't be bothered writing up yet.

Hit die: d4

Table coming soon!

Forceful Will (Ex): A wizard may use their Charisma modifier instead of their Wisdom modifier on Will saves.

Wizardry (Ex): A wizard may apply the Law of Ubiquity to summon a creature from another world. This requires that they first spend a number of gold pieces equal to the creature's CR^4 in order to build the fire, but the wizard requires only half this cost for summoning a creature when they currently have none summoned. Such a fire requires five minutes to build. Once the fire has been built, the wizard and the creature make opposed rolls, the wizard making a Will save with a bonus equal to their wizard level, and the creature using their best save+the creature's CR. If a natural one is rolled, then it is treated as being -10. Likewise, a natural 20 is treated as 30. If the creature fails, then it is bound to serve the wizard for as long as the wizard wishes. If the creature wins, then the wizard becomes dominated (as the spell) by the creature, and the creature may do as it likes. Whenever the wizard attempts to cause a creature to take any action other than moving their speed, attacking, carrying something, or total defense, the opposed roll must be made again, with the creature gaining a bonus equal to the number of times that this roll has been forced this summoning. The wizard must also remake this roll whenever they sleep or otherwise rest. Whenever a wizard has any creatures controlled in this manner, they take a penalty on Will saves equal to the total CR of all the creatures that they are controlling (note that this penalty is NOT assessed for a given creature if they are currently attempting to control a creature). A wizard may summon forth any creature with the outsider type which is currently on one of the outer planes. Note that this process determines the creature's name, but the wizard is unable to use a name determined in this manner or communicate it with any other person.

Path of Summoning (Ex): A wizard chooses what sort of summoning they will focus on. At third level, a wizard may choose between the horde path and the minion path. A wizard who chooses the horde path is able to ignore an amount of the penalty for having controlled creatures on Will saves equal to 1/2 their character level, while a wizard choosing the minion path grants one summoned creature a +1 enhancement bonus to all physical ability scores per two character levels.

Consistent Will (Ex): At fifth level, a wizard gains the ability to perform a limited "take ten" on Will saves. This functions as taking ten normally would, but the wizard must still roll, and a natural one will be treated as a 5.

Teutonic Knight
2009-12-13, 02:32 AM
My thoughts come straight from the mouth of Morgan Freeman himself:

"Good luck." :smallsmile:

Random_person
2009-12-13, 02:35 AM
I am off school and have nothing to do for a week, after which I have a hectic week and then about a month of free time. I figure, why not?

Temotei
2009-12-13, 03:18 AM
why not?

Those are some of my favorite words when they're put together, along with scalawag, poopdeck, and a bunch of other pirate words. :smallbiggrin:

Random_person
2009-12-13, 03:38 AM
I have put up the core mechanic for Wizardry. What do you think?

absolmorph
2009-12-13, 03:40 AM
Those are some of my favorite words when they're put together, along with scalawag, poopdeck, and a bunch of other pirate words. :smallbiggrin:
Those words are also among the most terrifying I can think of.
And my only reason for most of my life.

Also, I really like the spell-weaving system Fax made for d20 Rebirth. It just makes more sense to me than the spell list. It's still got the idea that you can do certain things with magic, but it's not a copy of the Wizard spell list, which seemed kinda weird when I first saw it.

Anonymouswizard
2009-12-13, 05:47 AM
I like wizardry, to me it captures the essence of magic in the Bartimaeus Trilogy. I might have to borrow it so I can get summoning in my setting.

But I cannot wait to see how alchemy turns out. It sounds very interesting.

Random_person
2009-12-13, 06:00 AM
Go figure. You would ask fort he one which will take the most work, wouldn't you. Ah well, that is what school holidays are for.

erikun
2009-12-13, 12:30 PM
Wizardry (Ex): A wizard may apply the Law of Ubiquity to summon a creature from another world.
Nice. Can I summon my elementals? Can I summon something friendly?


This requires that they first spend a number of gold pieces equal to 10 to the power of the creature's CR in order to build the fire.
I do not think any character in the history of D&D has had 100,000,000,000,000,000,000 gold pieces to summon a Balor. And I've build level 100 characters before; they never came close to that.


Once the fire has been built, the wizard and the creature make opposed rolls, the wizard using 1d20+wizard level+Charisma modifier-the total CR of all creatures currently being controlled, and the creature using 1d20+CR+the creature's best ability score modifier.
I would just like to point out that the monster CR is counted twice, once against the wizard's roll and once for the creature's roll. Or does the creature not count in the "CR of all creatures" section?

Then again, anyone with 100 quintillion gold pieces to spare could easily buy a +1000 CHA item to win the check.


Whenever the wizard attempts to cause a creature to take any action other than moving their speed, attacking, carrying something, or total defense, the opposed roll must be made again, with the creature gaining a bonus equal to the number of times that this roll has been forced this summoning.
Nothing that you can (reasonably) summon with the gold you have will be able to do anything meaningful in combat, unless you're regularly fighting mundane orcs.


The wizard must also remake this roll whenever they sleep or otherwise rest.
This pretty much limits the wizard to an effective lifetime of one month. After 30 rolls, he's pretty much guaranteed to be dominated by the summoned monster, regardless of CR.

I hope he can do something else too, because summoning what is equilivant to a pack mule for the one-month you have to live isn't an impressive class feature.

Random_person
2009-12-13, 02:30 PM
Alright. That gold cost needs to drop, although I am not sure what to. The creature is not yet controlled, so it only counts once. Once the gold cost is fixed, the combat problem should also be fixed. I will remove the autofail on a natural one, though, which ought to make it less tricky.

Siosilvar
2009-12-13, 02:58 PM
So the current costs are...

{table=head]Creature CR|Binding Cost|WBL%
1|20|20%
2|40|4%
3|80|3%
4|160|3%
5|320|4%
6|640|5%
7|1280|7%
8|2560|9%
9|5120|14%
10|10240|21%
11|20480|31%
12|41960|48%
13|83920|76%
14|167840|112%
15|327680|164%
16|655360|252%
17|1310720|386%
18|2621440|596%
19|5242880|887%
20|10485760|1380%[/table]

The table looks pretty reasonable until level 10 or 11...

Randomly throwing numbers out, CR to the 4th power looks pretty nice, except at very low levels.
{table=head]Creature CR|Binding Cost|WBL%
1|1|1%
2|16|2%
3|81|3%
4|256|5%
5|625|7%
6|1296|10%
6*|~3500 (Lesser Planar Ally)
7|2401|13%
8|4096|15%
9|6561|18%
10|10000|20%
11|14641|22%
12|20736|24%
12*|~7500 (Planar Ally)
13|28561|26%
14|38416|26%
15|50625|25%
16|65536|25%
17|83521|25%
18|104976|24%
18*|~11500 (Greater Planar Ally)
19|130321|22%
20|160000|21%[/table]
*Creature of the indicated HD, for up to 1 hour/level. Includes XP cost.

Random_person
2009-12-13, 03:13 PM
Alright then. I will stick that in. It is remarkably true to source as well: a minor imp requires the intensive effort of a pine wood fire!!!!

Random_person
2009-12-13, 11:25 PM
It just occured to me to wonder about something. How badly does it hurt a caster to need to have a total of about a +14 Charisma modifier in order to summon and control something perfectly at 1st level? Is it alright that their friends would need to kill whatever they had summoned regularly?

Temotei
2009-12-14, 12:24 AM
It just occured to me to wonder about something. How badly does it hurt a caster to need to have a total of about a +14 Charisma modifier in order to summon and control something perfectly at 1st level? Is it alright that their friends would need to kill whatever they had summoned regularly?

Wouldn't that be great if someone made a flaw out of that? :smallamused:

Wizard: I'm a conjuration master! *summons balor*...oh...that didn't work.
Fighter: What you talkin' 'bout Willis? There's a huge demon here to fight with us!
Wizard: ...yep. That's what I mean.
Fighter: Wait. You're saying...*smashed by balor*
Wizard: Yep. *fly* *quickened expeditious retreat* *invisibility*

Random_person
2009-12-14, 01:38 AM
Yeah. They are meant to have problems, I just wonder whether in this case the problem is too large for the ability.

Random_person
2009-12-14, 03:34 AM
Core mechanic for Sorcery is now up.

TheLaughingLich
2009-12-14, 04:15 AM
Oh wow, another Lyndon Hardy fan! :smallbiggrin:

I like what you've done so far. It stays pretty true to the books while also looking interesting from a gameplay perspective. I'll definitely be checking back here once you've gotten the rest of the forms up.

Re: wizardry checks, it might be interesting to make it a Will save or something related. Maybe a Wizard class feature that substitutes Cha for Wis on Will saves, for example, and then make it Will+wizard level vs whatever. That bonus would increase a little faster than the current one so that, with appropriate modifications on the demons' side, there's more of a difference in what you can summon at each level, and more risk in summoning something stronger than usual. Plus it means levels in other classes that train willpower still contribute a little to your wizardiness, which seems to match well with what I remember from the books.

Again, looking forward to where you go with this project. Good luck!

Random_person
2009-12-14, 04:22 AM
Alright, I have edited that in. Good to see that I am not alone in liking Lyndon Hardy.

How does Sorcery look? I will try to get a skeleton for all of the forms up before I flesh any of them out, so there will be no more Sorcery spells unless some kind soul wishes to volunteer, but I would love to know how breakable it is as a concept.

Random_person
2009-12-15, 02:18 AM
Rough draft of magic is up, and I have tweaked sorcery.

Random_person
2009-12-15, 11:41 PM
Rough draft of Alchemy is now up.

Temotei
2009-12-16, 03:59 AM
Wizardry

Forceful will (Ex): A wizard may use their Charisma modifier instead of their Wisdom modifier on Will saves.

Forceful Will (Ex):. That's what it should look like.


Wizardry (Ex):

Fixed.


Consistant Will (Ex): At fifth level, a wizard gains the ability to perform a limited "take ten" on Will saves. This functions as taking ten normally would, but a natural one will have the usual effects.

You spelled consistent wrong. Also, you should specify that the wizard rolls to see if they get a natural one.

More coming. I just have to review each section...tomorrow.

DragoonWraith
2009-12-16, 04:15 AM
Well, my feelings is that these things are taking too long or are too likely to fail, so they're just really not for players - these are great ideas for a literary universe, where mages can dedicate large amounts of time to this kind of thing, but what would, say, a Wizard or Magician contribute to an adventuring party? Even a Sorcerer, the most obviously combat oriented, is looking at really stiff penalties and rather high chances of doing nothing on his turns... that's not really effective.

I dunno, they're really cool ideas, but I don't see how you'd use them in combat...

Random_person
2009-12-16, 04:19 AM
Magic is not meant for PCs, and I have a couple of neat abilities to make Wizards fun. Sorcerors: you may be right about that, come to think of it. Ah well.

DragoonWraith
2009-12-16, 04:22 AM
Wizard can work, but you have to be able to get a reasonable number of demons. Like, look at the WBL guidelines - subtract off things like stat boosters, cloaks of resistance, the standard gear everyone buys, and then look at the Wizard. If he can afford a new fiend every level, that's probably about the minimum. If it's less than that, then he's going to be very ineffective.

In fact, I'd consider making it something like he can get one fiend per level, and then has to pay for more or something.

Lower level fiends simply aren't going to be very meaningful later.

Of course, having 20 fiends ranging from level 1 to level 20 is probably going to be too powerful, so you'll probably need him to swap em out or something - a limited number of total HD/CR/levels he can handle, maybe?

Magic as not really for PCs - OK, I'll buy that, but then you're talking about BBEGs and the like, and so it doesn't really need statting - you're talking about a campaign story arc or something.

Sorcery sounds a bit like Truenaming to me. I suggest looking up some Truenaming fixes, that might help you.

Alchemy sounds cool, though with only one reagent and the very broad summary of the idea, it's hard to say exactly how well it works. And of course, Thaumaturgy I can't really comment on at all, though I do like the idea behind it.

Random_person
2009-12-16, 04:30 AM
I have fiddled with the wizard a tad. How does it look now? As to Truenaming, fair enough. I would just nick a Truenaming fix, except that I want a specific focus on control of minds for Sorcerers. Magic is mostly statted out so that you can say to players "Go ahead. Craft a magic item. No xp cost either. Just lots and lots and lots of time..."

DragoonWraith
2009-12-16, 04:48 AM
Sure, I just mean for inspiration. Get an idea what seems to work and what doesn't. The escalating difficulty of the three times is sort of like that Law of Resistance or whatever it was called in Tome of Magic - WotC got it horribly wrong and Truenaming does not work well, but people have made it work and that might help you avoid the same mistakes.

Random_person
2009-12-16, 04:50 AM
I see. Incidentally, is the extra concentration overpowered? And what about the wizard's paths/taking ten on will saves?

DragoonWraith
2009-12-16, 04:54 AM
I don't think extra concentration checks is game-breaking - it's not the easiest thing to get in 3.5 normally, but it's not impossible (Solicit Psicrystal, plus a Familiar counterpart that I forget the name of, there's a Skill Trick for it, etc), so I don't think that's too bad.

As for the paths, I think the Path of the Minion ought to scale like the Path of the Horde does. That only makes sense.

Taking ten on saves... seems OK. I'm not sure.

Also, what on earth does "rolling a natural 1 functions normally" mean? I mean, you wouldn't roll if you take-10, that's the point...

Random_person
2009-12-16, 04:59 AM
Look better? You do still roll, but everything except a natural one is treated as ten. Natural one is now treated as five. Path of the minion now scales slightly.

dsmiles
2009-12-16, 05:00 AM
Doing good so far. Personally I don't like that if you somehow manage to become immortal or ageless, you can't be a sorcerer anymore, but mechanically, it's sound.

Random_person
2009-12-16, 05:01 AM
Yeah, that was basically a quick fix to avoid Necropolitans spamming uberspells. Other ideas to prevent that sort of thing are welcome.

Random_person
2009-12-16, 03:53 PM
Rough draft of thaumaturgy is up.

DragoonWraith
2009-12-16, 04:34 PM
What gets linked to the ally's body to allow Mould Body to work?

Also, "mould"? Is that the British version? Unfamiliar with that spelling.

Anyway, the aging penalty is... weird. I mean, it makes wonderful thematic sense, but it's potentially a bookkeeping nightmare (having to keep track of days/months when normally it's just years, or incredibly harmful (if everything is in integer multiples of a year).

Further, age is entirely up to the player in 3.5. It doesn't really make sense to penalize people who want to roleplay older characters, which is what the system currently does.

That, or the penalties are meaningless anyway, since aging effects rarely matter in 3.5.

I dunno, I just don't think the penalties are good from a crunch perspective. Flavorful, certainly, but I'm just not sure it could be made to be both meaningful and not obnoxious or simply too much to ever be useful.

And finally, yeah - wouldn't that kind of Sorcery be the point of becoming a Lich? I mean, that's exactly why you would even bother...

Random_person
2009-12-16, 04:39 PM
You can link anything with Mould Body. That is just how I always spell it, how would you do so?

As to sorcery, I am not wedded to the idea of aging, but I do want life force to be involved somehow. If you use to much sorcery, you will die before your time.

DragoonWraith
2009-12-16, 04:55 PM
Merriam-Websters lists "mould" as a "chiefly British variant of 'mold'," which is about what I thought it was. Nothing wrong with that, just wasn't aware of that spelling, like I said.

Anyway, like I said, aging just... isn't a big part of 3.5, and trying to make it be is going to be awkward. I don't know how to get around that.

A lot of this strikes me as really great ideas - for a different system. 3.5 just doesn't seem designed to support a lot of them, at least as you have them. They all seem to be too high on either risk or requirements, and while you might have a suitably strong reward, then that would be unbalancing. Basically, they seem like fairly low-magic ideas, where magic is difficult and arduous but ultimately very powerful, where D&D has things like cantrips that just don't seem compatible. D&D expects simple, easy, weak magic, which just doesn't seem to fit.

I don't think it's impossible to make this work, but I do think you might have to deviate more from your source material than you might have planned.

Random_person
2009-12-16, 05:02 PM
Alright then, I can live with that. I would welcome ideas for how to make it more suited to 3.5. I have now got most of the bare bones up, so barring really bizarre circumstances I should be able to begin fleshing stuff out shortly (although I am going away for the weekend).

EnderChant
2009-12-16, 10:04 PM
Here's a thought for sorcerery: instead of advancing age categories (which I agree is a problematic way to limit spellcasting, albeit a very interesting one) how about constitution damage instead? For weaker spells, this could be a penalty of -1 or -2 to constitution based checks; for more powerful spells, the sorcerer would begin to loose points of constitution. (The only problem with this is Concentration checks are necessary to make spells work; by casting spells, your own spells become increasingly inefficient, which I don't like).

As for wizardry, I once wrote a spell with a similar goal in mind. Although it's a very different approach, it might give you some ideas. I feel that the best way to change magic in DnD isn't by altering the rules, but by changing the spells available to players.

Chant's Summoning
Conjuration [calling]
Level: Cleric 1, Druid 1, Sor/Wiz 1
Components: V, S, F
Casting Time: 10 minutes
Range: 10 feet
Effect: one called creature
Duration: instantaneous
Saving Throw: Will negates
Spell resistance: yes

A now common spell originally composed by Emmanuel Chant, the summons conjures a creature or spirit to serve the magician.
To cast this spell, the first thing that must be done is draw a circle. It need not be complicated - a chalk circle will suffice. The next step for the user is to name the kind of creature to be summoned, which then appears in the center of the drawn circle. After the creature is summoned, the magician has an opportunity to impress the called creature with his or her magic, represented by a check of 1d20 + level of slot used (see below) against a DC of 10+(summoned creature's hit dice). If the caster has identified the summoned creature by their given birth name or it's equivalent, the caster gains a +2 circumstance bonus.
If this check succeeds, the summoned creature is at the disposal of the magician for an amount of days equal to the caster level of the magician, or until dismissed. The summoned creature will be freed of the summoning magic at midnight of the last day of service.
Should the check fail, the creature will either depart immediately or seek retribution, depending on the nature of the creature summoned.
Before the creature leaves, however, it will collect the cost for it's services. The most common cost is a portion of the magician's magic - a common rule most magicians use is to pay in magic equal to the power of the creature, that is to say, one spell slot exactly equal to the HD of the extraplanar servant. The caster can not use that slot (or slots) for the day after it is given. Afterwards, it returns normally.
Other methods of payment exist, for example, giving gems, magic items, or service as payment.
Arcane Focus: a piece of chalk, charcoal, or some other writing implement.

Heighten: a magician has the option of heightening this spell, as the metamagic feat to increase it's effective level.

EDIT: Of course, instead of a circle, a fire could be used; it makes little difference.

Random_person
2009-12-16, 10:55 PM
Nice idea for sorcery, but how about Wisdom damage instead? The only problem is that it ends up too coarse-grained, and this is meant to be a system whereby you only have a certain amount of this in your entire life.

Neat spell, but I feel that it seems a bit powerful, with not enough drawback (just my opinion). I agree to an extent, but I am of the opinion that it is best to try stuff that you don't think will work occasionally.

Temotei
2009-12-17, 02:53 AM
In general, a magic item will require a length of time to create determined by the cost under the rules laid out in the SRD. The cost in gold pieces is the time in days which will be required...

What?


The cost in gold pieces is the time in days which will be required...

What? A human in real life lives an average of twenty-seven thousand days, by the way. Just throwing that out there.

Random_person
2009-12-17, 02:56 PM
I know. These are multi-generational NPC things.

Random_person
2009-12-17, 07:13 PM
Wow. This is a bigger project than I thought. Although I am not going to ask the playground to do the work for me, any suggestions at all would be much appreciated.

Book Wyrm
2009-12-17, 08:38 PM
Sorry I don't have any suggestions for mechanics right now, but I do have a random suggestion for the names of your schools. What you describe as "wizardry" pretty closely matches the original definition of necromancy, summoning spirits and demons and stuff. And with all the other descriptive names you have, "magic" seems rather bland. So why not change "wizardry" to "necromancy" and "magic" to "wizardry."

Just a suggestion, everything else looks good though.

Random_person
2009-12-17, 08:42 PM
I would do that, and indeed anyone who will ever use this system is welcome to do so, but these names and mechanics are taken almost directly from a series of books by Lyndon Hardy, and I would rather leave the names as they are.

Fako
2009-12-18, 03:45 AM
Ok, I have a few suggestions and questions, so I'm going to break it up into the sections you have to keep it somewhat organized...

Thaumaturgy
First off, is there a limit to the number of links that the caster can maintain at a single time? How long does a link last?

As it stands, Mould Body can only be used on someone the same gender and species as you until level 5. Not bad for limitless healing, but it's a bit restrictive...

Also, does casting a spell using a link diminish the strength of the link?

Alchemy
I like that you kept this as a skill, but I don't like that there's always a chance of failure. I understand that there's always going to be factors you can't prepare for, but I'd recommend adding a way to diminish or negate the failure chance. My suggestion is to either base it off the ranks they have in Alchemy, or to add special reagents whose sole purpose is to increase your chance of making a successful brew.

Magic
I don't understand this one. While it removes the XP cost of crafting, it makes it nearly impossible for a player to make any items that can aid the party in any meaningful fashion. You might want to diminish the penalties as they level (such as reducing the number of participants, or cutting the days required).

I would also recommend giving them class features that allow them to enhance items they use, due to their intimate understanding of the magic behind them.

Sorcery
I love the idea behind this one, but the mechanics are very troubling. Your aging mechanic highly favors the longer lived races, and you gave all control over the effect to the caster by turning the target's Will save into a penalty on the Concentration check...

For the aging mechanic, you might want to take a look at ZetaKai's Bio-Mage (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2487790#post2487790) system.

I'd also recommend reworking the Concentration checks, allowing the target a Will save to resist after all three checks have been made instead of just taking it off the caster's roll. If magic isn't meant for the party, then the current mechanic might make them feel cheated, since they don't have any say as to if the spell works or not.

You should also re-think the penalty for being interrupted during the ritual to learn a new spell. Insanity per RAW is permanent until you can get it dispelled. You might want to add a time limit, such as being insane for 1 day for every 5 you failed the final Concentration check by. It might not match the books, but it makes it playable...

Wizardry
This one makes sense, but I know that it needs a bit of work before it's useable. As for what, not sure... but I have one idea: you might want to give the Wizard a discount on the summoning pyre if they summon something weaker than their level if they choose the horde path, and allow a Wizard to negate the penalties of one summoned creature of their choosing (chosen each day) if they choose the minion path.

-----

I haven't read the books this is based on, but it looks good so far. I can't wait to see how it turns out :smallsmile:

dsmiles
2009-12-18, 07:13 AM
Lookin' good so far, R_P!

Temotei
2009-12-19, 12:06 AM
I'm back to review more! :smallbiggrin: I'll edit this post as I read.

On thaumaturgy: I was confused until I read the spell description. Perhaps you could include that spells need a certain number of factors to be effective, and having a greater factor strength increases the spell strength in the description of thaumaturgy (the ability)?

On alchemy:
...primary and one or more secondary effects which it contributes on a succesful reaction, a primary effect for unsuccesful...

Diamond Dust
Primary unsuccessful effect: Affected by slow, no save.

Successful and unsuccessful are the spellings.

Does the slow effect last as long as it would if you cast it on yourself?

On magic:
Magic (Su): Magicians are able...DC 20 check of some description, usually Perform(Singing), Balance, or concentration. These checks are inelegible for taking ten, and if any one of them is failed the item is completely ruined.

The ability name should be bold in the header. Concentration should be capitalized when referring to the skill. Ineligible is the spelling. Also, instead of saying this, I would say something like: "You may not take ten on these skill checks, and if any..." That's your choice though.

Random_person
2009-12-20, 02:08 AM
Thaumaturgy
First off, is there a limit to the number of links that the caster can maintain at a single time? How long does a link last?

No limit to the number of links that you can hold at once. The link lasts as long as does the spell.


As it stands, Mould Body can only be used on someone the same gender and species as you until level 5. Not bad for limitless healing, but it's a bit restrictive...

Eh? By my working, one can do it with same shape/same material+Contagion. Where did you pull those from?


Also, does casting a spell using a link diminish the strength of the link?

Casting a spell and forging a link are the same thing, although I realize that my terminology may be confusing. Any ideas on how to clarify that?


Alchemy
I like that you kept this as a skill, but I don't like that there's always a chance of failure. I understand that there's always going to be factors you can't prepare for, but I'd recommend adding a way to diminish or negate the failure chance. My suggestion is to either base it off the ranks they have in Alchemy, or to add special reagents whose sole purpose is to increase your chance of making a successful brew.

I may take the second option, and I will also have reactions which similarly increase the chances of success. Those will be rare, though.


Magic
I don't understand this one. While it removes the XP cost of crafting, it makes it nearly impossible for a player to make any items that can aid the party in any meaningful fashion. You might want to diminish the penalties as they level (such as reducing the number of participants, or cutting the days required).

This one is the only one not actually meant for PCs, and as such will be fleshed out last. That includes abilities at higher levels.


I would also recommend giving them class features that allow them to enhance items they use, due to their intimate understanding of the magic behind them.

See above.


Sorcery
I love the idea behind this one, but the mechanics are very troubling. Your aging mechanic highly favors the longer lived races, and you gave all control over the effect to the caster by turning the target's Will save into a penalty on the Concentration check...

For the aging mechanic, you might want to take a look at ZetaKai's Bio-Mage (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2487790#post2487790) system.

Thanks, I have seen that before. I will take a look at incorporating those ideas.


I'd also recommend reworking the Concentration checks, allowing the target a Will save to resist after all three checks have been made instead of just taking it off the caster's roll. If magic isn't meant for the party, then the current mechanic might make them feel cheated, since they don't have any say as to if the spell works or not.

Good call. I don't know what I was thinking there.


You should also re-think the penalty for being interrupted during the ritual to learn a new spell. Insanity per RAW is permanent until you can get it dispelled. You might want to add a time limit, such as being insane for 1 day for every 5 you failed the final Concentration check by. It might not match the books, but it makes it playable...

Right, good idea.


Wizardry
This one makes sense, but I know that it needs a bit of work before it's useable. As for what, not sure... but I have one idea: you might want to give the Wizard a discount on the summoning pyre if they summon something weaker than their level if they choose the horde path, and allow a Wizard to negate the penalties of one summoned creature of their choosing (chosen each day) if they choose the minion path.

Sure, that sounds like a great idea.


I haven't read the books this is based on, but it looks good so far. I can't wait to see how it turns out :smallsmile:

Thanks alot.


On thaumaturgy: I was confused until I read the spell description. Perhaps you could include that spells need a certain number of factors to be effective, and having a greater factor strength increases the spell strength in the description of thaumaturgy (the ability)?

Isn't that what I have already done? How is this different from the current system?


On alchemy:

Successful and unsuccessful are the spellings.

Oops, I did actually know that.


Does the slow effect last as long as it would if you cast it on yourself?

I should probably stick a duration on that. One minute, for now at least.


On magic:

The ability name should be bold in the header. Concentration should be capitalized when referring to the skill. Ineligible is the spelling. Also, instead of saying this, I would say something like: "You may not take ten on these skill checks, and if any..." That's your choice though.

Sure, thanks.


Thank you both, a thousand times over, for this. Neither of you can have any idea of what it means to me to have this being seriously looked at and helped (well, you probably can, but you know what I mean). dsmiles, I suppose you get a thanks too.

Fako
2009-12-20, 06:17 PM
Eh? By my working, one can do it with same shape/same material+Contagion. Where did you pull those from?

Having not read the books, I didn't know how strict the rules of it were, so I went with the worst case scenario: same type/size for race (possible anatomical differences between races, with type possibly equating to species), and shape for sex (due to anatomical differences between genders), and no contagion to help.


Casting a spell and forging a link are the same thing, although I realize that my terminology may be confusing. Any ideas on how to clarify that?

I think I understand the basics of thaumaturgy, and can PM or post a rewrite of the mechanics if you're interested. However, I still don't understand Contagion thoroughly; would you be willing to post or PM me a lengthier description?


I may take the second option, and I will also have reactions which similarly increase the chances of success. Those will be rare, though.

Understandably so. Anything that makes it easier to succeed should either be rare or expensive (or both).

Random_person
2009-12-20, 06:30 PM
Please do post/PM a better explanation of thaumaturgy. Contagion is a fairly simple concept: if you are linking two objects which were part of the same object (say, a finger to someone from whom it was just cut off), the link is strengthened by two factors.

Temotei
2009-12-20, 06:40 PM
Isn't that what I have already done? How is this different from the current system?

What I meant was to include it in the description of the thaumaturgy ability. I didn't understand how to use thaumaturgy until I saw the spell below because your speaking of all these new terms was unexplained. It basically said "There are ranks, and without a certain amount of them, your spells are weak or null and void." The problem is, you go into detail about the powers and ranks, but you never explain what they are, until you get to the spell description where it says the required amount.

Fako
2009-12-21, 03:06 AM
Ok... let's see how this works:

Thaumaturgy (Su):
All thaumaturgy spells require a link to be forged between two items, which are then manipulated by using the properties of one item to influence another, such as linking two allies and using the anatomy of one to rebuild the wounded areas of the other, or linking a dull blade with a sharp one in order to reforge the edge. The base strength of a link is determined by five factors:

Shape: Be it a ball to a skull or a square of cloth to a wall, items of similar shape provide a stronger link, increasing the link strength by 1.

Size: This one is pretty simple; items that are roughly the same size provide a stronger link, increasing the link strength by 1.

Material: Creatures of a similar make-up (such as a human and an elf), or objects made from the same materials (such as a rock and a sling bullet) provide a stronger link, increasing the link strength by 1.

Contagion: Pieces that were part of the same item in the last year (such as your friend and his finger, or two swords from the same mineral deposit) pair together easier, increasing the link strength by 2.

Active Links: It is easier to add a strand of magic if another is already in place. If any active links exist between the two items, the new link is increased by an amount equal to the strongest previous link - 1.

Thaumaturgic spells have a minimum link strength required in order to function, and will automatically fail if the link is too weak to sustain them.

Linking objects is done automatically during casting. At the end of the spell's duration, the link dissipates harmlessly, leaving little to no trace behind.

Enhance Link (Su): A thaumaturgist learns how to exploit links more fully as he increases in level. Starting at level 5, he may treat all links as if they were 1 grade higher. This bonus increases by 1 at 10th level and every 5 levels thereafter.

Spells

Mould Body, Minor
Casting time: Standard action
Link Strength: 3+ factors
Saving throw: Fort negates (Harmless)
Duration: Instantaneous

By using this spell, a thaumaturgist attempts to reconstruct the wounded areas of an ally, removing some of the damage. The caster makes a Heal check (DC 15), with success healing the intended target 1d6 points of damage. Failure on the check instead deals 1d4 points of damage as the body is formed in ways nature never intended. The caster is treated as being under stress while casting this spell, denying them the ability to take 10 on the Heal check.

------------------

Not sure if I got it right, but that's thaumaturgy as I understand it. It's not as condensed as yours is, but it should be a bit easier to read. Feel free to tweak/edit/butcher to fit your needs, as I doubt it perfectly matches the image you have for it. Explanations of changes are below:

I changed the casting time of Mould Body to a standard action. Having it as a free action, followed by using a standard action in the spell, is misleading; the casting time should include all gestures, checks, and underwear changes that are required for casting the spell.

I also changed the duration of the spell to Instantaneous. The healing doesn't take a round to come into effect, so there is no reason for the spell to linger around after it's done. Also, spells with a duration can be dispelled...

Also, one concern: With the system as it currently is, it's possible to spam a lot of high duration links in order to build up the link strength of another spell. Is this intentional?

If I seem harsh, that isn't my intention - I just want to make sure that you're pleased with the finished product, so I'm trying to help where I can.

Random_person
2009-12-21, 03:20 AM
I see the problem. Having previous or existing links between two objects should weaken any further links between them. My number was the strength of the previous link is subtracted from the strength of the new link, meaning that to reuse a pair of objects you need to be more powerful than the person who did the link before. Also, if the link used in a spell is stronger then it should permit the spell to be more powerful, and thatduration/casting time was intentional. If you can somehow get multiple standard actions in that time, then you can do more healing, and that was entirely intentional.

Fako
2009-12-21, 03:37 AM
I see the problem. Having previous or existing links between two objects should weaken any further links between them. My number was the strength of the previous link is subtracted from the strength of the new link, meaning that to reuse a pair of objects you need to be more powerful than the person who did the link before. Also, if the link used in a spell is stronger then it should permit the spell to be more powerful, and thatduration/casting time was intentional. If you can somehow get multiple standard actions in that time, then you can do more healing, and that was entirely intentional.

Weakening the links based off of all previous links would be a mistake I could only compare to the Truenamer's Law of Resistance: In theory it makes sense and adds a cap to the free spells, but in practice it makes functioning difficult. I have a few ideas for this:

1) You could simply provide a net -1 penalty for each link on the character within a set time frame (minute/encounter/hour/day).

2) There could be a -1 penalty for each active link.

3) Each spell could have a score, referred to as interference or resistance, that decreases the strength of future links within a set time frame.

As for being stronger than the previous caster, you might want to include a word of power that lets you "jam" any new attempts to link items, providing a penalty to all future links until it wears off or is broken.

If a stronger bond means stronger spells, you could add an augment system similar to what 3.5e Psionics has, allowing the caster to determine where the extra points go. Or you could provide a specific bonus, similar to spells that give +CL to their effect.

I still think that the free action followed by standard action is a bit bizarre, but I see where you're coming from. What about a clause stating that Mould Body doesn't interfere with future links? That would allow them to use it multiple times in a round if their actions permit it, and keep it in a "normal" setup for spells.

Also, what's the maximum distance for a link to be forged? Do you need line of effect to both targets, or just one?

Random_person
2009-12-21, 03:42 AM
What I am suggesting is weakening the links based off of all previous links between that pair of objects. You can obtain another object to redo the link with the important one. As to link-forging range, I think that line of effect to one and reach to the other is about right. And I don't want to hand out "this spell doesn't create interference" clauses at all if I can help it. Why exactly, do you see a problem with impairing all future links?

Fako
2009-12-21, 03:49 AM
My main concern with it is that it will be a bookkeeping nightmare. Trying to keep track of all the things you've linked within the party, and what you've linked to, would be difficult. The fact that you can obtain something new to link with makes it a bit easier, but peasants will shy away if you ask them to stand still while you link them to your dying teammate in order to heal them...

The secondary concern is the current restriction of it. If you use your ally's severed finger to heal him (+1 same material, +2 contagion), then you can no longer heal them using that same finger; you either have to cut off a new one or link him to something else close enough...

I don't have all your notes or knowledge on the subject, so I may be overreacting or misunderstanding here...

Also, what maximum distance would you put between the items when forging a link? You can technically get line of effect on objects miles away if you have enough open space...

Random_person
2009-12-21, 03:53 AM
Note that you don't actually need an entire finger. That spell is based off of an actual application of Thaumaturgy in the books, although that worked by combining shape, material, and contagion, although it was stretched a bit. Under the current rules, it probably wouldn't be allowed, since it was done with a wax arm (or whatever) containing a sliver of flesh from the person.

Range is meant to be almost unlimited. Another canon application was basically a flying machine, going to the distant mountains to set up a catapult, all controlled from the castle.

Fako
2009-12-21, 09:41 PM
Ah. I thought that the items had to share all the same materials in order to gain the bonus, not just a portion. That makes more sense, and makes it a bit easier.

As for working under the rules, if you allow them to link sections of objects, such as an arm to a wax arm, then it will work just fine.

In your example for distance, did they link to the catapult before or after they put it on a mountain? Before indicates that there might be a max distance for linking, but the link is unaffected by distance after being created.

Random_person
2009-12-23, 12:32 AM
Both, actually. They linked up, sent it over with a couple of people, cut the link so the people could work, and then made a new link.

Fako
2009-12-23, 01:57 AM
Ah, ok. One thing though:


Both, actually. They linked up, sent it over with a couple of people, cut the link so the people could work, and then made a new link.

Emphasis mine. By your statement, it sounds like an object cannot be manipulated by mundane means while it is linked... is that true? If so, it should be added to the rules as they stand...

Random_person
2009-12-23, 02:00 AM
Actually, as I recall the problem was that it was a much larger thing linked to a much smaller thing, and so the slightest movement in the smaller thing would cause the larger thing to move drastically. That should probably be part of individual spells, rather than the system as a whole.

Fako
2009-12-23, 02:30 AM
Actually, as I recall the problem was that it was a much larger thing linked to a much smaller thing, and so the slightest movement in the smaller thing would cause the larger thing to move drastically. That should probably be part of individual spells, rather than the system as a whole.

K. Again, makes sense. Ok, here's my revised attempt at the rewrite:

Thaumaturgy (Su):All thaumaturgy spells require a link to be forged between two objects, which are then manipulated by using the properties of one item to influence another, such as moving a chess piece around to move an uprooted tree, or linking a wax arm to an ally's arm to reshape it, healing it in the process. The base strength of a link ranges from 0 to 5, and is determined by four factors:

Shape: Be it a ball to a skull or a square of cloth to a wall, items of similar shape provide a stronger link, increasing the link strength by 1.

Size: This one is pretty simple; items that are roughly the same size provide a stronger link, increasing the link strength by 1.

Material: Objects that share at least one common material (such as a gold coin and a jeweled crown) provide a stronger link, increasing the link strength by 1. Multiple common materials do not stack.

Contagion: Pieces that were part of the same item in the last year (such as your friend and his finger, or two swords from the same mineral deposit) pair together easier, increasing the link strength by 2.

Example: You need to heal your buddy's broken arm. You take a portion of his flesh (he's in enough pain already... doubt he'd notice...) and insert it into a wax arm, which you then link to his arm. The wax arm is roughly the same shape as his arm (+1), has a similar material due to his flesh (+1), and since his flesh was a part of him within the last year, contagion applies (+2), leaving you with a base link strength of 4. Mould Body, Minor needs a base link of 3, so you can cast it and let the healing begin...

Linking objects is done automatically during casting. The link is severed at the end of the spell's duration, leaving behind a trace of residual magic. While this residue does not prevent future links, it does interfere with them, providing a penalty to the link strength equal to the power of the previous link.

Example: Your friend manages to break his arm again. Should you try to use the same arm, the residue from the previous link will reduce your new link by 4, giving you a link strength of 0. To overcome this, you'd either have to make a new arm, or make modifications to the wax arm in order to boost the strength of the link (such as making it the same size).

Enhance Link (Su): A thaumaturgist learns how to exploit links more fully as he increases in level. Starting at level 5, he may treat all links as if they were 1 grade higher. This bonus increases by 1 at 10th level and every 5 levels thereafter.

Spell Information

Range
In order to create a link, a thaumaturgist must be able to touch one of the objects and have line of effect to another, with no maximum distance between the objects. After the link is formed, the caster may move as he wishes; he does not need to remain near either linked object for the magic to function.

Link Strength
Thaumaturgic spells have a minimum link strength required in order to function, and will automatically fail if the link is too weak to sustain them.

However, there are spells that benefit from a stronger link. The effect varies by spell, and is included in the description.

Example Spell

Mould Body, Minor[/b]
Casting time: Free Action
Link Strength: 3+ factors
Saving throw: Fort negates (Harmless)
Duration: 1 round

By using this spell, a thaumaturgist attempts to reconstruct the wounded areas of an ally, removing some of the damage. As a standard action, the caster can attempt a Heal check (DC 15), with success healing the intended target 1d6 points of damage. Failure on the check instead deals 1d4 points of damage as the body is formed in ways nature never intended. The caster is treated as being under stress while casting this spell, denying them the ability to take 10 on the Heal check.
Augment: The caster gains an additional standard action for every point of link strength beyond 3. These extra actions can only be used to make additional Heal checks.

--------------

Ok. Moved things around a bit, fixed a few spots, and added a possible augment idea to the spell... how's it look?

Random_person
2009-12-23, 02:53 AM
I'm afraid that words fail me, my dear Fako. This is more or less exactly right. Thank you.

Fako
2009-12-23, 02:59 AM
Not a problem at all. If you want me to pester you about another area, just let me know... always happy to frustrate/help :smallsmile:

Random_person
2009-12-23, 03:04 AM
I have no idea whether this is normal or not, but I work at my peak when being constantly bothered/badgered. I will be quite busy this weekend, but I may make a serious effort to get something done tomorrow.

Random_person
2010-01-04, 03:10 AM
I have finally returned to this project and gotten a few Thaumaturgy spells written up, all of them focusing on bodily manipulation. I'm trying to find a method whereby thaumaturgist doesn't become a no-brainer dip to wield Colossal weapons before I start tackling telekinesis.