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Sir.Swindle
2009-12-15, 11:32 AM
Hey playground, i go to an engineering school and realistically if i was running the right type of game i could get like 20 or so people involved.

The issue is a game with 10 players takes forever in combat, excludes people out of combat and is generally not very much fun for any one. All of the available players are friends of one degree or another and I hate to turn them away. But I need to keep my game to a managable size.

Right now I keep quiet on what games run and impose hard caps on group size. (Sorry groups full method)

Has any one had an issue like this before?
How would you guys handle it?

Skeletor
2009-12-15, 11:34 AM
I like 5 man groups, though 3 and 4 man can be a lot of fun as well. You start getting 20 man groups and you'll find that the experience has been degraded to the point that it no longer resembles a game.

Optimystik
2009-12-15, 11:36 AM
Ah, here's another advantage of digital D&D. :smallsmile:

Why not split into two groups, with another player elevated to DM? If you want everyone to play together, you could even have two parties storming the same dungeon from different ends or something. Then you'd only have to deal with big combats at a climactic crossroads or something.

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-12-15, 11:38 AM
I pick players like I pick my fruit. I look for the fresh ones that are firm but give in under a moderate amount of pressure, whilst also providing great enjoyment when consumed.

Ok, that analogy doesn't work as well as I thought it would, but you get my point.

Totally Guy
2009-12-15, 11:38 AM
I think I saw this on TV one time.

Except is was about a ticket to go to a concert and he had two best friends.

So what happened was the guy made the others do more and more elaborate things for him to prove which of his friends was his better friend. And I forget what happened in the end but I'm sure it all worked out.

Quietus
2009-12-15, 11:39 AM
I pick players like I pick my fruit. I look for the fresh ones that are firm but give in under a moderate amount of pressure, whilst also providing great enjoyment when consumed.

Ok, that analogy doesn't work as well as I thought it would, but you get my point.

There's a melon joke just waiting to be made here.

Optimystik
2009-12-15, 11:41 AM
So what happened was the guy made the others do more and more elaborate things for him to prove which of his friends was his better friend. And I forget what happened in the end but I'm sure it all worked out.

"When a fire starts to burn,
there's a lesson you must learn,
something something, then you'll see
you'll be safe from catastrophe!"

Project_Mayhem
2009-12-15, 11:41 AM
Invite T-Pain

jiriku
2009-12-15, 11:43 AM
It's absolutely true that every DM has a group-size comfort zone, and you won't enjoy running games if your group grows outside that comfort zone.

I use a couple of restrictions to help me decide who to admit to games:

1) No flakes. This is Rule #1. Everyone suffers when you have that one guy who is always 45 minutes late with some lame excuse when you know he was macking on the couch with his girlfriend or raiding with his guild on WoW. This also includes that decent guy who's juggling a wife, a demanding job, two kids, and is out of the state on business trips twice a month. If you don't have time, even for legitimate reasons, then you need a hobby that doesn't involve a regular time commitment. I look for people who I know to be consistently punctual and to consistently honor their commitments.

2) Know the game. I look for people who understand the game well enough to build and level their own characters, or new people who are willing to purchase a Player's Handbook. Anyone who has played for a while and still has to add numbers for three minutes in order to make a basic melee attack or any new person who isn't willing to sit down and read the Player's Handbook will be a drag on play. You'll spend too much time helping them level their characters and reminding them that yes, you do add you Strength bonus to hit, just like you did last round.

3) Social. Every player has had an experience with "That Guy" who seems to only be happy when he's being a total pain in the ass to as many people as possible. I look for people who are friendly, easy-going, and cooperatively-minded.

dsmiles
2009-12-15, 11:45 AM
Start with a bunch, eventually, only the most dedicated remain.

Sir.Swindle
2009-12-15, 11:45 AM
I look for the fresh ones that are firm but give in under a moderate amount of pressure, whilst also providing great enjoyment when consumed.

Sounds like how I pick my women.

Also i'm not the only game in town, but i'm prolly the most outgoing/entertaining as far as rules systems and allowing things in 3.5 (my Anthropromorphic Gestalt game for example)

Emmerask
2009-12-15, 11:48 AM
Hey playground, i go to an engineering school and realistically if i was running the right type of game i could get like 20 or so people involved.

The issue is a game with 10 players takes forever in combat, excludes people out of combat and is generally not very much fun for any one. All of the available players are friends of one degree or another and I hate to turn them away. But I need to keep my game to a managable size.

Right now I keep quiet on what games run and impose hard caps on group size. (Sorry groups full method)

Has any one had an issue like this before?
How would you guys handle it?

Well how about running 2 or even 3 partys in the same world?
best party size in my oppinion is 4 + dm (that would be the ideal wotc group size?).
Anyway running different groups in the same world "simultanously" can be a lot of fun :smallwink:

HealthKit
2009-12-15, 12:08 PM
Have a series of one-shot adventures involving about 5 of the 20 players each time.
Of those one shot adventures, pick who you think are the best players out of the pool and eliminate the worst.
Repeat as necessary until you have a smaller group of the best players.

valadil
2009-12-15, 12:40 PM
I have two suggestions.

The first is to base it on scheduling. Tell them you're running a weekly game every tuesday night. That should eliminate about half of them. It also eliminates the hassle of finding the ideal scheduling once you're down to 5 or 6 people.

The second is an idea that I wish I tried in college, but hadn't thought of at the time. Cast them based one what they want to play. What I mean by that is that you should send out a mass invite asking people to describe the character they'd play if they get in. Instead of picking people, pick characters. What I hope happens is that this will let you pick characters who are similar where convenient, but different where you want contrast. I kind of wish I did this first week of freshman year as a way to find new players.

In either case, you may still have more players than you wish to accomodate. What I've seen done with some success is to put a cap on how many players can sit at the table. Everyone else goes on the waiting list. As PCs die, replace them with players on the list.

Bagelz
2009-12-15, 12:59 PM
I have not had groups of more than 8 be very successful, and find that 5-6 is best for my style of 3.x dm'ing.

as was previously mentioned split into two groups (preferably with another dm) and run parallel adventures. you can join up for the big baddie at the end of the semester, as the distraction of so many players will be trumped by the climax of the story.

if you really really cannot find another person willing to dm, do every other session. In the long run it will be more fun for the players too.

Rhiannon87
2009-12-15, 02:25 PM
I vote for the "see if other people can DM" option. Works best if you can break it up into 3 or 4 smaller groups, with the agreement that each DM gets to be a player in someone else's game.

Gamerlord
2009-12-15, 02:30 PM
I have an idea:
Split the people into two groups: Let us call them "Team good" and "Team evil" for now, they both compete to complete a special objective, such as "Team good tries to protect a city from team evil" or "Team evil tries to steal an artifact from an old ruin at the same time team good is trying the same thing". That might make an entertaining campaign.

I myself prefer 6 people, enough so that everyone can choose their own class and still have a good chance of filling all the roles.

Grifthin
2009-12-15, 02:32 PM
Recruit a second DM or Train one. That's what I've done. Life has been MUCH easier since. Get to lighten the load and can run sub plots etc to keep everyone interested.

(that was actually the forums suggestion to me originally.)

SpikeFightwicky
2009-12-15, 02:35 PM
Invite T-Pain

I can see the first session:
Players: "Do we start in an inn?"
DM: "Aw hell no... YOU'RE ON A BOAT!"


I prefer games from 3-5 players (plus DM). Any more, and in my experience, everything bogs down. Especially if there are one or two players that don't take the other in consideration and go off to have their characters do their own thing while most of the group yawns and loses interest.

Sir.Swindle
2009-12-15, 02:49 PM
There are other DM's around and we have joked about having like a Hunter Vs. Vampire game or Scion Vs. Titan spawn game. Basically good Vs. evil but we never follow through. I certainly don't have to accomadate every player in one of my games. The issue with haveing several short campaigns is our term are only 3 months, with 3 month "breaks" in between (we are at school months 123 and 789). So a game generally lasts one story arc any way then i start with a different group the next term.

Also i don't like to use merit to pick players. There are a few people who have pissed me off and i won't allow in games but i don't mind hiving to guide people. D&D is a fun hobby that i like to share with my friends, not a secret elite society. On the other hand i'm not a baby sitter, Having a mix of vets and noobs keeps things balanced. The noobs try to power game and fail while the vets try to not power game (the hounds of tindalos manifest them selves as a base ball bat in my house) and still pick up the slack.

erikun
2009-12-15, 03:36 PM
Do you have a hobby store you could use for your games? If so, you could try recruitting another GM and running two groups at the same time (in seperate rooms). It allows everyone to get together and socialize, while keeping the group sizes small.

Plus, if people start dropping, you can easily merge the groups together.

Wait until after the holidays to do so, though. Even reliable people have trouble making Saturdays during this time of year.

jokey665
2009-12-15, 03:39 PM
It's absolutely true that every DM has a group-size comfort zone, and you won't enjoy running games if your group grows outside that comfort zone.

I use a couple of restrictions to help me decide who to admit to games:

1) No flakes. This is Rule #1. Everyone suffers when you have that one guy who is always 45 minutes late with some lame excuse when you know he was macking on the couch with his girlfriend or raiding with his guild on WoW. This also includes that decent guy who's juggling a wife, a demanding job, two kids, and is out of the state on business trips twice a month. If you don't have time, even for legitimate reasons, then you need a hobby that doesn't involve a regular time commitment. I look for people who I know to be consistently punctual and to consistently honor their commitments.

2) Know the game. I look for people who understand the game well enough to build and level their own characters, or new people who are willing to purchase a Player's Handbook. Anyone who has played for a while and still has to add numbers for three minutes in order to make a basic melee attack or any new person who isn't willing to sit down and read the Player's Handbook will be a drag on play. You'll spend too much time helping them level their characters and reminding them that yes, you do add you Strength bonus to hit, just like you did last round.

3) Social. Every player has had an experience with "That Guy" who seems to only be happy when he's being a total pain in the ass to as many people as possible. I look for people who are friendly, easy-going, and cooperatively-minded.

Sadly, my current group is made up almost exclusively of people that fall into at least one of the bad versions of these categories. They're the only players I've got, though. I've just accepted it and tailored my game towards them as best I can.

Sir.Swindle
2009-12-15, 03:44 PM
Sadly, my current group is made up almost exclusively of people that fall into at least one of the bad versions of these categories. They're the only players I've got, though. I've just accepted it and tailored my game towards them as best I can.

I'm telling you Aluminum Bat. Works every time.

Also, a Half-Iron Golem Dire Bat if you have it on hand.

Tyndmyr
2009-12-15, 04:07 PM
Cage fight to the death.

Two players enter! One player leaves!

Sir.Swindle
2009-12-15, 04:11 PM
Cage fight to the death.

Two players enter! One player leaves!

or they agree to work togeather and play Master Blaster!

Ormur
2009-12-15, 06:29 PM
I'm in a 14 man group and it's fine as long as you realize it's not going to be like a normal D&D game, more like a party that's occasionally interrupted by the DM and some dice rolls. A few people having a conversation while the others roleplay, people going out for a pizza, one out of every three players absent etc. The story is interesting and the players are fun to be around so it's far from boring but you don't get the immersion of a 3-5 man group. Don't invest too much in the story so that you'll get annoyed when you don't get 100% focus. Asking people to stay silent 13/14th of the time is too much for most.

Tyndmyr
2009-12-15, 06:43 PM
or they agree to work togeather

What? Ye gods, man, you're not making any sense. How will they win the deathmatch if they work together?

Yukitsu
2009-12-15, 06:43 PM
For those tough choiced that need immediate resolution, the below is always an option.

http://www.mangafox.com/manga/hayate_the_combat_butler/c133/10.html

I recommend using nerf.

Mystic Muse
2009-12-15, 07:04 PM
I think I saw this on TV one time.

Except is was about a ticket to go to a concert and he had two best friends.

So what happened was the guy made the others do more and more elaborate things for him to prove which of his friends was his better friend. And I forget what happened in the end but I'm sure it all worked out.

assuming this is Malcolm in the middle it was actually brothers and here's what happened.

after things getting continually more ridiculous Francis finally decides to take some random girl to a wrestling show. Malcolm and Reese get him arrested in revenge. so no. it doesn't really work out.

Lioness
2009-12-15, 07:21 PM
I pick players like I pick my fruit. I look for the fresh ones that are firm but give in under a moderate amount of pressure, whilst also providing great enjoyment when consumed.


May I sig that?

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-12-15, 07:22 PM
Sure, go ahead.

DabblerWizard
2009-12-16, 04:56 PM
Here are some of the things I look for in players:

- Players I know vs. players I don't know

- Habitually friendly and calm players vs. chronically rude and disrespectful players

- Dedicated vs. not dedicated players

- No serious problems with other players vs. serious problems with other players