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Thames
2009-12-17, 12:02 AM
Hey, 3 part question in reference to Baldur's Gate.

Was there ever a tabletop version of the Baldur's Gate (for pen and paper)?
and
Is there a template for the bhaalspawn anywhere?
and finally
Has anyone done some writeup for the NPCs for 3ed?

Saintjebus
2009-12-17, 12:19 AM
Baldur's Gate is a city in the Campaign setting Forgotten Realms. The entire game series is set in that campaign setting. It is D&D. I think the original game was 2nd edition. You can find all about it in (surprise!) The Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting. As a player, you want The Players Guide to Faerun.

Edit: Many of the NPCs are statted in the Campaign setting, though you might be hard-pressed to find some of them in the 3.5 book. If you can find a Forgotten realms boxed set from 2nd edition, that would give more relevant info to the Baldur's Gate game.

Thames
2009-12-17, 12:56 AM
Ok so I'm going to have to clarify: when I say NPCs I mean Minsc, Jan Jansen, Viconia Devir, Edwin Odeirserion etc; when I say book of baldur's Gate I don't mean the city I mean the adventure. I have all splat books for FR 3ed and 1 adventure (Cormyr Tearing of the Weave).

Sidenote: Does Viconia know about the destruction of her family by Drizzt (due to his birth)?

jmbrown
2009-12-17, 02:13 AM
Baldur's Gate was never transposed into an adventure path or anything so no. There are no (that I know of) 3E conversions of the characters although it's not that difficult to convert them. The difficult thing is converting multi-classed demihumans but you should either drop the class you think is most irrelevant to them (for example, Jaheira should be a fighter instead of druid/fighter because she doesn't adhere to any of the druidic tenants and classifies herself as a harper, never a druid). Either do that or make it a gestalt game.

Bhaalspawn are presented in one of the Dragon magazines as a template including special feats and how to roleplay them. I can't tell you off the top of my head which one, sadly. The issue probably came out in 2001-2002 because that's when Throne of Bhaal was released. The template itself is really powerful and practically turns you into an uncontrollable evil beast when certain factors are met. It's also 3.0 so you'll have to do some conversions.


Sidenote: Does Viconia know about the destruction of her family by Drizzt (due to his birth)?

No. It's not explained what year she escapes the underdark (has to be before 1297DR as Baldur's Gate takes place in 1358DR) but the previous matron mother of house DeVir is killed prior to Ginafae who Zaknafein kills when the house falls permanently. Viconia in Baldur's Gate is probably 200 or so years old at the time Drizzt is in his 60s. I don't know what special conversations she makes if you have Viconia in your party when meeting Drizzt in the hills fighting gnolls (in BG1) or when you encounter his party later in BG2.

Tam_OConnor
2009-12-17, 02:29 AM
Well, they had 2nd edition stats for Abdel Adrian (the 'canon' Bhaalspawn), Jaheira, Tamoko and Sarevok in Dragon #262. They're about as accurate as the novels (that is to say, not at all, with the exception of Sarevok's physical stats, and possibly Jaheira's). Overall, not worth the effort it would take to track down.

The Bhaalspawn template itself is in Dragon #288. However, it was produced very early on in the production of 3.0, and is, to put it gently, good for idea mining and little else. Now, if you take the Slayer template early on, when +8 enhancement bonus to strength and +6 natural armor actually matter, then yes, I could see it as overpowered. But as is? No, not hardly.

Triaxx
2009-12-17, 07:07 AM
I've run the game as Pen and Paper, both splitting the players up as all Bhaalspawn and having the last fight turn PvP to see who ascends, as well as having them ascend as a Choir of Voices. Plus I've run it with one character randomly determined as the Bhaalspawn but not telling anyone which until Sarevok makes it known in the Duchal Palace.

Most of the NPC's that you'll encounter can be run with Alternate Class Features, or sometimes just added the way Black Isle did with Minscs rage in BG1. Some characters will end up Gestalt outside of the normal rules, like Jaheira. Others work fine with 3e multiclassing.

The best template for the Bhaalspawn is: At Plot Interval, gain new power.

Under the second style of game, these powers were kept to myself, but occasionally one of them would gain back HP, and no one would be told who did it. Kept them guessing.

BooNL
2009-12-17, 07:33 AM
Meh, given all the possible PrCs out there, you should be able to find a 3.5 equivalent for every character.

I'd say Jaheira should be a straight druid. They're basically 2 fighters and a caster anyway...

Some characters would get a lot weaker this way though. Aerie and Quayle as Mystic Theurges *shudder*.

Anonymouswizard
2009-12-17, 07:56 AM
I've wanted a translation of the first party of 6 (you, Imoen, Khalid, Jaheira, Montaron and Xzar), but then I would most likely need the bard you get afterwards to stop myself from creating a 6th character. I could then run the adventure and have them do the first game.

Or get them to do the same thing as the multiplayer game does.

BooNL
2009-12-17, 08:05 AM
I've wanted a translation of the first party of 6 (you, Imoen, Khalid, Jaheira, Montaron and Xzar), but then I would most likely need the bard you get afterwards to stop myself from creating a 6th character. I could then run the adventure and have them do the first game.

Or get them to do the same thing as the multiplayer game does.

Imoen: Human Rogue/Wizard multiclass, maybe with a dual-progression PrC. The only spell she canonologically (is that a word?) cast is magic missile, so that's not much to go on.
Khalid: Half-elf fighter with EWP(bastard sword) or if you want to go the way they intented him to be: Fighter/Wizard/Eldritch Knight. Khalid was supposed to be a Fighter/Mage, but they changed it at the last minute.
Jaheira: Half-elf druid, maybe with a dip in fighter.
Montaron: I'd say either a Thug+Sneak Attack variant fighter or a rogue/fighter multi. The assassin PrC wouldn't be for him as it's a spellcasting class. Maybe Shadowdancer?
Xar: Human Wizard, specced in Necromancy. Illusion is a must for a banned school. I don't think he starts with Evocation spells, so you could safely ban that too. He can dual-class to Cleric in game. So he might be able to go Mystic Theurge.
Garrick would be a straight bard and a lousy one at that.

Turkish Delight
2009-12-17, 08:06 AM
No. It's not explained what year she escapes the underdark (has to be before 1297DR as Baldur's Gate takes place in 1358DR) but the previous matron mother of house DeVir is killed prior to Ginafae who Zaknafein kills when the house falls permanently.

It's probably best to just consider Viconia being part of the same House DeVir that was wiped out in Drizzt's backstory a continuity snag and ignore it. I can't link it or anything, but I seem to recall someone at Bioware saying something to that effect.


I don't know what special conversations she makes if you have Viconia in your party when meeting Drizzt in the hills fighting gnolls (in BG1) or when you encounter his party later in BG2.

To the first, she doesn't have anything to say. Very few NPCs in your party have anything to say anywhere in vanilla BG1, even when the situation should very blatantly call for them to have a reaction.

To the second, I seem to recall she recognizes him and encourages you to slaughter him and his friends and take their equipment. Neutral Evil and all that.

Cyclocone
2009-12-17, 11:00 AM
IIRC, Crystal Keep has stats for the Bhaalspawn template.

There is also a fan mod that upgrades BG to run on the IWD2 engine (thus making it 3e), I belive it is called Icewind Gate.

Grommen
2009-12-17, 12:27 PM
I have never seen a translation of the video Game into Pin and Paper. Always wanted to do that myself but as it would detail me going back though the game and playing it again (some 200+ hours) and taking notes I have not. Would be a rather crazy campaign, if I recall they got sicking powerfull in the end. Least my dude did, but he was a fighter/mage.

Did not have Vivionca with my party at the time we met Drizzit. Seems that her and the Palidian had an issue outside the cave of that abnormally large red dragon in BG2. The fight resulted in said palidian going all bad ass on the drow chunking her. Then I went all bad ass (I'm thinking Slayer as well) and whooped the Palidian's sorry ass. Had to reload and find new allies at that point, so I think I went and got Jaherida back. I need the stupid Palidian for some reason I don't know why so his self righteous ass got to stay.

Latter when we found Drizzit and fought with him in the Vampire Lair, one of the Vampires charmed Minc (Just not one of the worlds deepest thinkers) and he was standing next to the famed drow.

Now folks I know he is supposed to be the greatest swords men in the Realms, but he was no match for our mighty Minc. "BUT KICKING FOR GOODNESS!" Drow chunks everywhere when Minc got done.

We took out his crew (Cati, Brewner etc) wile fending off the Vampires. I felt so bad that I had to reload and do the hole mission over again, this time protecting Minc from doing the same thing. :smallbiggrin:

jmbrown
2009-12-17, 12:43 PM
I don't remember the details because I haven't played the game in almost a decade but if you kill Drizzt and take his equipment Malchor Harpel teleports in and demands it back.

Harperfan7
2009-12-17, 02:57 PM
I don't remember the details because I haven't played the game in almost a decade but if you kill Drizzt and take his equipment Malchor Harpel teleports in and demands it back.

That's only if you have it equipped or don't put it in a bag of holding, I forget which. Either way, you can't use it until you get to hell (or else he'll come).

You CANNOT defeat him.

Gorbash
2009-12-17, 04:30 PM
I have never seen a translation of the video Game into Pin and Paper. Always wanted to do that myself but as it would detail me going back though the game and playing it again (some 200+ hours) and taking notes I have not. Would be a rather crazy campaign, if I recall they got sicking powerfull in the end. Least my dude did, but he was a fighter/mage.

Did not have Vivionca with my party at the time we met Drizzit. Seems that her and the Palidian had an issue outside the cave of that abnormally large red dragon in BG2. The fight resulted in said palidian going all bad ass on the drow chunking her. Then I went all bad ass (I'm thinking Slayer as well) and whooped the Palidian's sorry ass. Had to reload and find new allies at that point, so I think I went and got Jaherida back. I need the stupid Palidian for some reason I don't know why so his self righteous ass got to stay.

Latter when we found Drizzit and fought with him in the Vampire Lair, one of the Vampires charmed Minc (Just not one of the worlds deepest thinkers) and he was standing next to the famed drow.

Now folks I know he is supposed to be the greatest swords men in the Realms, but he was no match for our mighty Minc. "BUT KICKING FOR GOODNESS!" Drow chunks everywhere when Minc got done.

We took out his crew (Cati, Brewner etc) wile fending off the Vampires. I felt so bad that I had to reload and do the hole mission over again, this time protecting Minc from doing the same thing. :smallbiggrin:

Good god, I have to do this. I understand a misstype or two, but you misspelled every single name...

It's Viconia, not Vivionca.
It's Drizzt, not Drizzit.
It's Paladin, not Palidian.
It's Jaheira, not Jaherida.
It's Cattie-Brie, not Cati.
It's Minsc, not Minc.
It's Bruenor, not Brewner.

Anyways, I wanted to do this long time ago, but there are a few problems. First of all, there would be too much railroading just because a real D&D game doesn't have limits a video game does. Second of all, Teleporting. Everyone except your party can teleport around. How would you explain that to your players?

jmbrown
2009-12-17, 04:40 PM
Anyways, I wanted to do this long time ago, but there are a few problems. First of all, there would be too much railroading just because a real D&D game doesn't have limits a video game does. Second of all, Teleporting. Everyone except your party can teleport around. How would you explain that to your players?

You won't get access to teleport until Shadows of Amn (if it existed in game). The two biggest hurdles are the fact that Athkatla opposes magic inside the city without paying a massive fee per wizard (wasn't it something like 5,000gp for a license?) and you still have to know the existence of a location before you start zipping about willy nilly (and I'm paranoid, never teleporting unless I've scryed on an area plus places like Spellhold and Bodhi's lair are probably well warded against divination).

I think it's entirely possible, it's just a matter of creating adventure hooks the player wants to see. I'd probably drop Irenicus' dungeon in favor of him visiting the bhaalspawn PC in their dreams because most players would throw a fit if they were captured, tortured, and had their hard earned equipment sold.

Gorbash
2009-12-17, 04:48 PM
The two biggest hurdles are the fact that Athkatla opposes magic inside the city without paying a massive fee per wizard (wasn't it something like 5,000gp for a license?)

How is 5000 a massive fee? You can afford that starting at 5th-6th lvl (and you start BG2 at level 7, IIRC) by 3.5 rules.


and you still have to know the existence of a location before you start zipping about willy nilly (and I'm paranoid, never teleporting unless I've scryed on an area plus places like Spellhold and Bodhi's lair are probably well warded against divination)

Not really. Since BG2 goes up to 20th lvl, there's plethora of spells that allow you to teleport wherever you want. Greater Teleport, at lvl 13, for example. Then there's Plane Shift, Shadow Walk etc... And I'm not talking about Bodhi's Lair and Spellhold, but for example, why would a 7th lvl wizard even bothered to go through Irenicus' Dungeon? Dimension Door 800 ft above + feather fall, if nothing else. Yeah, you can say 'because of the story' but that's railroading.

jmbrown
2009-12-17, 05:15 PM
5K is a big chunk for a 7th level character to spend on something with no inherent value. Also, Shadows of Amn assumes you start in a cage absolutely naked.

I'd say Irenicus' dungeon had a permanent dimensional anchor placed on it otherwise he had no use for his teleporters. It would be smarter if he didn't have teleporters because then no one could infiltrate his dungeon. True, he'd have to memorize an entire line of spells just to move about during the day but we're talking about a 20th level wizard here.

Also, dimension dooring yourself still leaves you, a wizard, alone and unprotected. You feather fall to Athkatla and POOF half a dozen wizards 2x stronger than you teleport in and fine you. You attack? A 20th level wizard pops in and casts gate to bring in a pit fiend (this is how BGII handled fighting those guys I HATED THEM).

Most of the story locations in BGII were highly magical or warded. Sure, you could teleport to the mundane locations but Athkatla has a homing beacon on all spell casters, I wouldn't trust teleporting around the underdark blindly, and Silverymoon probably has an army of elves waiting for anyone stupid enough to show up uninvited just to name a few locations.

Harperfan7
2009-12-17, 05:51 PM
we're talking about a 20th level wizard here.


Not quite, sir.

Ladorak
2009-12-17, 06:38 PM
Not quite, sir.

29 or 30 I think... With the Slayer on hold just on the off chance he runs out of spells.

Yeah, he's like the best bad guy ever

arguskos
2009-12-17, 06:43 PM
29 or 30 I think... With the Slayer on hold just on the off chance he runs out of spells.

Yeah, he's like the best bad guy ever
Actually, using Shadowkeeper shows that Irenicus is level 29, IIRC. So, yes, he is significantly more powerful than previously indicated.

@OP: The biggest hurdle you're going to face here is that BG2 was set in an altered AD&D system. It doesn't account for the variability of 3.5, nor all the loopholes/cheese/insanity that 3.5 is famous for. If you can create compelling reasons why the problem-solving divinations and teleportations don't work, then that's a good way to start.

Also, yes, Irenicus is the best bad guy ever. I even have an avatar I got made for me of him:
http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u250/bloodydoves/Irenicus.png
I don't recall the artist however. :smallfrown:

Gorbash
2009-12-17, 06:47 PM
Also, dimension dooring yourself still leaves you, a wizard, alone and unprotected. You feather fall to Athkatla and POOF half a dozen wizards 2x stronger than you teleport in and fine you. You attack? A 20th level wizard pops in and casts gate to bring in a pit fiend (this is how BGII handled fighting those guys I HATED THEM).

They don't fine you the first time, you're just given a warning by one wizard and info who to talk about lifting the ban on spellcasting. They took Irenicus and Imoen away because magic explosions caused considerable damage to Waukeen's Promenade.


Most of the story locations in BGII were highly magical or warded.

While still, somehow, everyone else keeps teleporting in and out of those locations. :smalltongue:

And I'm not saying that the biggest flaw is teleportation, but it was left out to make a video game run along its course because it has a scripted story. And a scripted story is much harder to pull off once you remove boundaries, one of them being teleportation.

jmbrown
2009-12-17, 08:06 PM
29 or 30 I think... With the Slayer on hold just on the off chance he runs out of spells.

Yeah, he's like the best bad guy ever

Epic level in AD&D is pretty different from epic in 3E so I'd say a 20th wizard is probably the max you want to make him especially when you add on the template which is probably +4 to his CR. An 3rd edition 18th level party against a 29th level wizard is absolute suicide unless you have some sort of magic foo.

Shpadoinkle
2009-12-17, 08:13 PM
Hey, 3 part question in reference to Baldur's Gate.

Was there ever a tabletop version of the Baldur's Gate (for pen and paper)?
and
Is there a template for the bhaalspawn anywhere?
and finally
Has anyone done some writeup for the NPCs for 3ed?

Yes, it's called Dungeons and Dragons.

They're all unique, so I imagine that one template couldn't cover all of them, unless it was extremely general.

Almost certainly, but I wouldn't know where. It shouldn't be a big stretch or a lot of trouble to just lift thier in-game stats and convert them to 3e though.