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Mr White
2009-12-21, 09:42 AM
I've recently picked up 'Elder scrolls: Oblivion' for the Xbox.

I've been looking around and it seems that Oblivion has some possibilities when it comes to crowd control (orwhatyemacallit). You have command, calm, frenzy, paralyze, demoralyze, turn undead and possibly burden.

How effective/practical is it to be a control-focussed character in Oblivion?
I've been buying spells but most battle control-spells come with a max level the same as my own. What does this mean in regards to their usefulness?

Thanks in advance.

Triaxx
2009-12-21, 10:37 AM
Burden is useless and Turn Undead and Fear are the same effect for two different types of foes. If it's alive, Fear works, if it's dead Turn Undead does but both do the same thing.

Turn Undead works as crowd control, but is more effective on a dagger enchanted for max enemy level and turn 1 second. This way the enemy isn't running far, but they're also not attacking.

If you define crowd control as: 'I want them off me, NOW!' Fear is your best friend. You'll need to not wear any armor at all, including shields, to recieve maximum spell effectiveness, and cast a maximum level, maximum radius, maximum length spell on a nearby target. This will be expensive, because you have to make your own, and are limited by your skill with Illusion. Touch is cheaper than Targeted. But it's guaranteed that anything not immune to fear is going to flee in utter terror.

If you define Crowd Control as: 'I don't want to fight them all.' Frenzy, Command and Rally are your best friends. Combine a max level Frenzy and max level Command and then hit one of them with it. They'll attack the first target they see, which is likely to be you if you're not stealthed. If you are though, they'll fight each other, and the others will likely continue attacking even after the effect has worn off.

For groups where you want them all to fight each other, instead of ganging up on one guy, use Frenzy and Rally, max level with a radius of around 30. Then aim for the middle. They'll all go nuts and attack each other. Stealth is a must for this one though, since they'll go after you instead of each other if they see you. Rally makes them over-ride their instincts not to attack one another.

Burden is basically useless unless you have several spells of the same strength and with different names, otherwise most enemies aren't carrying enough to be immobilized by a single spell.

Paralyze is good if you need to single out an enemy to deal with later. Like the Shaman in a goblin mob, or the Bandit Hedge Wizard.

The most effective spells are built, not bought. The level that it effects being equal to your own is bad, because most of the time the enemy is higher level than you are. Essentially, they're outdated as soon as you purchase them. However, knowing a spell with an effect is helpful for when you Join the Mages Guild and can access the altars to build your own spells.

deuxhero
2009-12-21, 10:58 AM
Lowering strength has a greater effect than burden AND lowers damage.

That said, the PC verison is only half decent with mods, I pity anyone who has to play the console verison.

Stormthorn
2009-12-21, 08:12 PM
For groups where you want them all to fight each other, instead of ganging up on one guy, use Frenzy and Rally, max level with a radius of around 30. Then aim for the middle. They'll all go nuts and attack each other. Stealth is a must for this one though, since they'll go after you instead of each other if they see you. Rally makes them over-ride their instincts not to attack one another.

PCs have a heirarchy on who they will attack.

I tried that spell outside in the arcane university. One group would attack me but the other group would rapidly switch targets to the first group after they hit me. I can remember who did what though (apprentices, full mages, and guards).

Calm is a pretty cool spell. I was planning on experimenting with hitting them with a DoT and then a Calm but i never got around to it. If your really want awesomeness, i suggest the following combo.


Weakness
Weakness 2
Weakness
Weakness2
Calm for X seconds
Fortify Health Y for X-1 seconds and Drain health Z for X seconds

The spell will stop the enemy from attacking and then kill them later on. Not at all practical, but crazy awesome. I like to cast it on high level enemies and then walk calmly away. But im crazy. Real crazy.

In a city hitting a guy you want dead with Frenzy is a good idea. No matter who he attacks the guards will bring him down.

Triaxx
2009-12-22, 06:28 AM
Better still, the Mythic Dawn member in Bravil? He goes into the fighters guild. I nailed him with a Frenzy in there. Needless to say, he didn't last long.

Emperor Ing
2009-12-22, 10:04 AM
Crowd Control?

1) Make an AOE shock spell (destruction skill)
2) Cast it at your feet
3) ???
4) PROFIT!!!

Shock damage, because only 1 enemy in the entire game is resistant to shock damage.

Oslecamo
2009-12-22, 10:57 AM
I like fear+damage X for X seconds. Slow, but cheap enough for spamming, and it will eventualy kill the target while he's too busy running around to counter attack.

Triaxx
2009-12-23, 06:56 AM
Turn Undead on a weapon works the same on skellies and zombies. Just one or two seconds is enough to interrupt them without causing them to run away too far.

J.Gellert
2009-12-26, 08:16 PM
I like using Summons for crowd control, actually.

Unlike in other RPGs (cough, Neverwinter Nights, cough), in Oblivion enemies actually do go for the summons (quite blindly too, the idiots! Kill the summoner!). That leaves you much space to work your other spells or single out foes to attack in melee.

It ends up being cheaper than Illusion spells, because as has been said already, mind-affecting spells are useless by the time you get them - most foes are already higher level than you, and to cast them at maximum effectiveness you need a high stat and a lot of mana.

Triaxx
2009-12-27, 05:19 AM
Incidentally, 45 seconds of Clannfear is quite enough to shred most large groups at low levels.

Caewil
2009-12-27, 08:04 AM
Mana shouldn't really be a problem, since you can eventually enchant your clothing to grant maximum-mana bonuses. If you want more, try playing an Atronach (even more max mana) with the Alchemy skill trained as high as you can. Then just make mana restoration potions. As a plus, most of the ingredient combinations give you fatigue restoration as well. You can find the ingredients for such potions in large quantities in the fields outside Skingrad.

Net result being effectively infinite mana, since the potions grant mana over time for around 30 seconds with max alchemy. You can keep casting your highest level spell repeatedly until the potion runs out. The regen is that fast.

Lorn
2009-12-27, 08:21 AM
Mana shouldn't really be a problem, since you can eventually enchant your clothing to grant maximum-mana bonuses. If you want more, try playing an Atronach (even more max mana) with the Alchemy skill trained as high as you can. Then just make mana restoration potions. As a plus, most of the ingredient combinations give you fatigue restoration as well. You can find the ingredients for such potions in large quantities in the fields outside Skingrad.

Net result being effectively infinite mana, since the potions grant mana over time for around 30 seconds with max alchemy. You can keep casting your highest level spell repeatedly until the potion runs out. The regen is that fast.
Road from Skingrad to Kvatch - over a hundred flax plants, which do restore magic as their primary effect. At 100 alch, you can make a potion from a single ingredient... IIRC, it lasts over 40 seconds and restores upwards of 50 magic a second. Then again, it's been a while so I may be mistaken.

The money is good as well ;)

J.Gellert
2009-12-27, 12:36 PM
At one time I just put Restore Mana 100 as a side-effect on one of my most expensive spells :P Fun...

Oslecamo
2009-12-27, 01:25 PM
Unlike in other RPGs (cough, Neverwinter Nights, cough), in Oblivion enemies actually do go for the summons (quite blindly too, the idiots! Kill the summoner!). That leaves you much space to work your other spells or single out foes to attack in melee.

I must point out summoning works horribly with area spells, as the summon will turn on you if attacked three times.

Anyway, battles between summoners seems like I've entered a pokemon game, with the summons tackling each other while the conjurers sit back.



It ends up being cheaper than Illusion spells, because as has been said already, mind-affecting spells are useless by the time you get them - most foes are already higher level than you, and to cast them at maximum effectiveness you need a high stat and a lot of mana.

But...But watching the enemy killing themselves is so fun!
Plus invisibility=free mana regen. Get invisibile to regen mana, breack inv to fire a spell, go invisible again, repeat. Or just 100% chamaleon, altough that's pretty much cheating.

Zovc
2009-12-29, 09:41 AM
I remember making my own weapon that dealt 0 damage in the toolset. I later enchanted said weapon ingame to paralyze for three seconds. I thought it was hilarious to hit someone with my weapon, watch them get up, then hit them again. Running away afterward was never a big problem for the most part.