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Shademan
2009-12-30, 12:53 PM
so a guy I know is trying to make a decent magekiller. but don't quite know how. aaand neither do I. Any advice for two dofuses?

wants it to be a rather martial character. And with some way to use dispel if possible (not as spell but class ability or sumfin')

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-12-30, 12:54 PM
Perhaps you should make a monk?
On a somewhat more serious note, Spellthieves, Runescarred Berserkers, ToB classes, Rangers with FE: Arcanists, Psychic Warriors, and full casters work well for this role.

mikej
2009-12-30, 01:00 PM
The Mageslayer feat ( CW? ) series would be a good start.

lord_khaine
2009-12-30, 01:05 PM
As i understand, if you want to make a mage-killer that is not a full caster then Psionic warrior is one of the most potent choices there is, especaly if he gets his hands on a suppresion weapon.


Suppression: An opponent or object struck by this kind of weapon is subject to a targeted dispel psionics power. The wielder makes a dispel check (1d20 + 5 + manifester level, maximum +15) against a DC of 11 + the manifester level of the power to be dispelled. Bows, crossbows, and slings bestow this ability upon their ammunition, but can do so only three times per day.
Moderate psychokinesis ML 10th; Craft Psionic Arms and Armor, dispel psionics; Price +2 bonus.


Alternatively levels in swordsage would also be good.

Xallace
2009-12-30, 01:05 PM
The Mageslayer feat ( CW? ) series would be a good start.

Complete Arcane, actually. The Occult Slayer PrC is in Complete Warrior.

Longcat
2009-12-30, 01:06 PM
Do note that the Mage Slayer feat line explicitely lowers Caster level, not manifester or initiator level. Therefore, your best bet would be Psionic Gish, e.g. a Psychic Warrior or a Psion/Slayer.

Raiki
2009-12-30, 01:10 PM
You should totally make a monk.

C'mon Pharaoh, you know some people actually might take that seriously? Think of what you would be doing to that poor character.

Anyway, let's see if I can get a few words in before the "Play a warblade" crowd chimes in.

I'd say play a psychic warrior with the "soulknife" ACF. Link here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070214a).

Really all you need to play a half-way decent mage-slayer are a few feats. Psychic Warrior gives you those, plus more. First step, take "Mageslayer" out of CArc, giving a slight boost to your will save and making it so that casters can't cast defensively while you threaten them.

Next take Persue out of one of the Eberrron books. It lets you burn an AoO to follow someone who 5-foot steps out of your threat range.

Invest your WBL and other resources into pumping your Will save and improving damage (all the better to make those precious spells fizzle). You'll also want a means of flight (boots, carpet, doesn't really matter).

Add spiked chain nonsense for extra awesome.

Them's my two coppers anyway.

~R~

Edit: Wow, ninja'd almost in my entirety. Well, what else should I expect from a forum of people this good at winning D&D.

mabriss lethe
2009-12-30, 01:11 PM
There are so many different ways to start here:

Hexblade/suel arcanamach might be a good starting place. Some decent debuffs and the arcanamach's ability to dispel with a melee strike.

You could also go with the mage slayer line of feats, but avoid anything remotely casterish if you do, since each feat in the line reduces your caster level by 4.

Spellthief is a rather good mage killer by design.

using either a warblade, or a feat/item combination to get Ironheart surge is a great idea.

Baron Malkar
2009-12-30, 01:11 PM
a Ranger1\Monk4\Spellfire Channeler10 is a very potent combination if you go with Favored Enemy: Arcanists. Though you do need to figure out how to get free readied actions.

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-12-30, 01:12 PM
C'mon Pharaoh, you know some people actually might take that seriously? Think of what you would be doing to that poor character.
I do. I do. Muhuhaha.

FlamingKobold
2009-12-30, 01:14 PM
Consider Lord_Gareth's Voidblade Eliminator. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=136489)

RagnaroksChosen
2009-12-30, 01:57 PM
PF... Shakes head...


any way a great anti caster is
mystic ranger with the favored enemy arcanist acf
Taking a Long bow and far shot.

Ready an action to pop the caster when you see them cast.
Use your ranger spells to increase your critting and what not...

Should be good with that.

weenie
2009-12-30, 02:19 PM
The last good mage-slayer build I saw used the swiftblade (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070327) PrC. It gets some really nice abilities, like making haste be (Ex), so it can't be dispelled and it gives you an extra standard action per turn. You also get Freedom of movement as an (Ex) ability, so it works even in an antimagic field. Once you get in reach of a caster cast Antimagic field on yourself and prepare an action to follow him if he moves. He will be helpless.

My favorite build: Scout3/ranger2/wizard2/abjrant champion3/swiftblade 10

Casts as a lvl11 wiz
18 BaB
low HP, but everything misses you 50% of the time
amazing speed
amazing initiative
+6d6 skirmish damage if you take Swift hunter and improved skirmish and your favorite enemies are never immune to it. Take favorite enemy arcanist acf and anything capable of casting will tremble before you.

Zaydos
2009-12-30, 02:25 PM
The feats that come after Mage Slayer might be nice too. Pierce Magical Protection negates AC bonuses from spells and dispels the spells that grant them automatically with a hit and Pierce Magical Concealment does the same thing to magical miss chances and mirror image. My conjurer I'm making fears that combo if they could get close enough (he only has fly 1/day but several spells to summon tentacles of doom, solid fog, and draconic polymorph with a pixie familiar if it comes to it).

ErrantX
2009-12-30, 02:51 PM
Tooting my own horn, but I remade the Suel Arcanamach (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=126605) for just such a purpose.

The original one is good still as well, but I think my redux of it makes it more effective at the the job it is trying to accomplish.

-X

Milskidasith
2009-12-30, 02:52 PM
Do note that the Mage Slayer feat line explicitely lowers Caster level, not manifester or initiator level. Therefore, your best bet would be Psionic Gish, e.g. a Psychic Warrior or a Psion/Slayer.

Magic-psionic transparency: Anything that lowers caster level and doesn't specify that it's arcane or divine lowers manifester level as well. Initiator level not so much.

ErrantX
2009-12-30, 03:03 PM
Magic-psionic transparency: Anything that lowers caster level and doesn't specify that it's arcane or divine lowers manifester level as well. Initiator level not so much.

I disagree with this; this feat came out after the XPH so it was crafted with psionics being known to exist. Secondly, magic-psionic transparency (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicPowersOverview.htm#psionicsMagicTransparenc y) rules are quite clear with what they effect, feats are not one of them.

A Psi-Gish would be able to use Mage Slayer without hindrance. It says caster level (so divine or arcane, you get hit, as well as artificers and mystery users), not manifester level.

-X

Pluto
2009-12-30, 03:13 PM
wants it to be a rather martial character. And with some way to use dispel if possible (not as spell but class ability or sumfin')

I like Ranger/Psion/Slayer (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/slayer.htm):

More PP and powers known than the Psychic Warrior
Favored Enemy Arcanist (CMage) with Favored Power Attack (CWarrior) is delicious.
Built-in Mind Blank (better even, because you can choose what affects you... the Bard's Inspire Courage etc. still have their normal results.)
Ignore Magical Concealment without the standard casting-nerfs.

...Also, your brain tastes really really bad. And that's neat.

noiadodh
2009-12-30, 03:48 PM
i found the Pursue feat, but it uses 1 action point.. making it x/day without using action points is ok?

ex cathedra
2009-12-30, 03:55 PM
The feats that come after Mage Slayer might be nice too. Pierce Magical Protection negates AC bonuses from spells and dispels the spells that grant them automatically with a hit and Pierce Magical Concealment does the same thing to magical miss chances and mirror image. My conjurer I'm making fears that combo if they could get close enough (he only has fly 1/day but several spells to summon tentacles of doom, solid fog, and draconic polymorph with a pixie familiar if it comes to it).

Pierce Magical Protection requires a standard action attack, and so I'm not that fond of it. Pierce Magical Concealment is fantastic, but it has another prerequisite that's quite irksome.

Zaydos
2009-12-30, 03:58 PM
I hadn't noticed that about Pierce Magical Protection, that bites. As for concealment yeah I agree that Blind-Fight is meh at best. Still worthwhile if you're fighting wizards who like to use Greater Mirror Image, displacement, and darkness to become nigh invincible.

Aldizog
2009-12-30, 04:04 PM
I disagree with this; this feat came out after the XPH so it was crafted with psionics being known to exist. Secondly, magic-psionic transparency (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicPowersOverview.htm#psionicsMagicTransparenc y) rules are quite clear with what they effect, feats are not one of them.

The only mention of psionics in Complete Arcane is in the adaptation of the mindbender class. There is no mention of it anywhere else. Are we to believe that the rest of the material in CArc ignores magic-psionic transparency because it doesn't explicitly mention it?

It seems to me to be in the spirit of the rules to say, for example, that Pierce Magical Protection ignores and dispels AC bonuses granted by psionic powers.

ErrantX
2009-12-30, 04:09 PM
The only mention of psionics in Complete Arcane is in the adaptation of the mindbender class. There is no mention of it anywhere else. Are we to believe that the rest of the material in CArc ignores magic-psionic transparency because it doesn't explicitly mention it?

It seems to me to be in the spirit of the rules to say, for example, that Pierce Magical Protection ignores and dispels AC bonuses granted by psionic powers.

Actually, yes. There are plenty of psionic feats and non-psionic feats out there that don't. I don't see how this is any different. If you want to have a psion killer, you'd make a Psychic Killer feat, right? You wouldn't use Mage Slayer because it doesn't say anything about psionics in it. You'd either house rule it or make a new feat up. The rules written say nothing about affecting manifester level, even in the transparency rules, so Mage Slayer won't affect your manifester level.

-X

Aldizog
2009-12-30, 04:17 PM
Actually, yes. There are plenty of psionic feats and non-psionic feats out there that don't. I don't see how this is any different. If you want to have a psion killer, you'd make a Psychic Killer feat, right? You wouldn't use Mage Slayer because it doesn't say anything about psionics in it. You'd either house rule it or make a new feat up. The rules written say nothing about affecting manifester level, even in the transparency rules, so Mage Slayer won't affect your manifester level.

I see it as all being magic. The dwarf saving throw vs. spells would also apply to power, invocations, mysteries, and whatever else new subsystems WotC thinks up. Pierce Magical Protection or Concealment would also be equally versatile.

Otherwise you render those abilities nearly irrelevant. If you expand your magic from one system to five or six, and the old defenses still only apply to one, they lose a great deal of value; it's not like defenses against magic were in need of being nerfed.

Milskidasith
2009-12-30, 04:26 PM
Actually, yes. There are plenty of psionic feats and non-psionic feats out there that don't. I don't see how this is any different. If you want to have a psion killer, you'd make a Psychic Killer feat, right? You wouldn't use Mage Slayer because it doesn't say anything about psionics in it. You'd either house rule it or make a new feat up. The rules written say nothing about affecting manifester level, even in the transparency rules, so Mage Slayer won't affect your manifester level.

-X

So you want to play in a game without the psi-magic transparency, for god knows what reason, further nerfing melee and causing mages and psions to play rocket tag with each other because they can't protect themselves at all.

Good times! :smallwink:

deuxhero
2009-12-30, 04:33 PM
Is removing the CL hit going to really make anything nasty? No? Let it work without penalties.

PhoenixRivers
2009-12-30, 04:37 PM
I disagree with this; this feat came out after the XPH so it was crafted with psionics being known to exist. Secondly, magic-psionic transparency (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicPowersOverview.htm#psionicsMagicTransparenc y) rules are quite clear with what they effect, feats are not one of them.

A Psi-Gish would be able to use Mage Slayer without hindrance. It says caster level (so divine or arcane, you get hit, as well as artificers and mystery users), not manifester level.

-X

The rule of thumb for transparency is this:

If something affects magic, and could conceivably affect psionics, it does.

This means that you can use an Ioun Stone to increase your manifester level. It also means that Mage Slayer drops Psionic Manifester Level.

The rules are pretty clear on this, and the text indicates that the burden of excluding something from this relies on the ability explicitly stating that it does not work, or the mechanics implicitly being incompatable (pearls of power cannot benefit a psion, as he doesn't have slots for his powers. Were a psion made that did use a slot system, it would.)

EDIT: There is an argument that feats are an explicit exception to the "could conceivably affect" clause, as it's not listed with "spells, spell-like abilities, and magic items" that the text uses. This would also mean that <SU> abilities are exempt from transparency. While it wouldn't cause an incredible unbalancing effect, it could become problematic with Savage Species inclusion (allowing for Spell-like abilities to be made Supernatural). I do not ascribe to this view, but it is valid.

Zaydos
2009-12-30, 04:39 PM
Actually, yes. There are plenty of psionic feats and non-psionic feats out there that don't. I don't see how this is any different. If you want to have a psion killer, you'd make a Psychic Killer feat, right? You wouldn't use Mage Slayer because it doesn't say anything about psionics in it. You'd either house rule it or make a new feat up. The rules written say nothing about affecting manifester level, even in the transparency rules, so Mage Slayer won't affect your manifester level.

-X

Antipsionic Magic from the Expanded Psionics Handbook specifies that it's effects ignore transparency. If a feat doesn't specify that it ignores the rule, it doesn't ignore the rule. Chaotic Mind as well. If something ignores the rule it states it.

Aldizog
2009-12-30, 04:39 PM
Is removing the CL hit going to really make anything nasty? No? Let it work without penalties.
Well, yeah, it is. Those are powerful feats. Casters don't need more power. The intention is to make them only available to pure melee/skill types, to let them close the gap a bit with the casters. The Mage Slayer line is one of the very few things in the game that a mundane character can get that a magic-using one basically can't.

deuxhero
2009-12-30, 04:47 PM
If a wizard is in melee and attempting to stop people from defensive casting , he deserves what he gets :)


And it was mentioned in another thread. Anyone that must cast defensively is doing it wrong.

taltamir
2009-12-30, 05:30 PM
to make a magekiller:
1. roll stats
2. put your highest stat in int
3. play a wizard.

congrats, you are the most effective mage killer in existance :)
nobody kills mages like the most powerful mage of them all, the wizard.

joking aside, op you want a mage killer that is as "martial as possible"... the less magic he has, the less effective he is.
If he is a pure martial character, it is just a matter of choosing the right magical gear... there are weapon enchatments that give you dispel and dimensional anchor on hit (x/day, you chose when to activate)... so you could get those for your warrior.

PhoenixRivers
2009-12-30, 05:38 PM
If a wizard is in melee and attempting to stop people from defensive casting , he deserves what he gets :)


And it was mentioned in another thread. Anyone that must cast defensively is doing it wrong.

As was mentioned in that thread. Mage Killer wouldn't be widely regarded if it weren't useful.

Fights can start at ranges where you start threatened.
Enemies can remain undetected and approach to attack.

Even non-caster enemies can use items that grant them access to abilities that allow them to close with alarming speed, or mitigate teleportation/etc.

In short, most people who read comments that say that they're playing a freakin game wrong? Are going to be rather insulted at best, and convinced you don't know of what you speak at worst.

I'm of the latter camp.

Zaydos
2009-12-30, 06:05 PM
I rarely see a need for casting defensively, but I know as a DM I can definitely make a creature that forces it. Unless you have contingent teleport whenever something comes within 20-ft at which point, well then you're just going to end up teleporting away from the dungeon no where near finished. Heck for something simple raptoran psychic warrior with a spiked chain. You have to cast on the defensive within 20 to 30-ft of him, and with one feat he has good manueverability on his flight. He'd be a really, really good mage slayer with that feat line but can't be a psychic warrior then. Could also go Spiked Chain Raptoran fighter with them, you can fly, you can get into melee, and then they can't cast defensively and either try and leave or you just hit them when they try to cast. With stand still they can't leave either.

So yes while normally casting defensively isn't the best option a character built for it can make it the best option. Although note for anti-mage the mage slayer one probably does better.

Eldariel
2009-12-30, 06:40 PM
A Lockdown Fighter build should definitely pick up Mage Slayer. That means just getting a mage to your threatened area is enough, in other words, allowing you to threaten them with Move Actions. Archery is pretty good since it means you get to actually threaten the caster who's teleporting and such; arguably, Force-projectiles should be immune to Wind Wall.

Also, big enough bow could be treated as a siege weapon (I recall Great Crossbow is mentioned to effectively be a portable Ballista) and work on that account. You can get a Huge Greatbow as a standard Medium character (Strongarm Bracers, Enlarge), which would get by that.


Runescarred Berserker with natural flight is relatively good as an Anti-Magic Field user. Of course, a Cleric with Initiate of Mystra rules that roost...but is probably too close to a full caster to be considered. Runescarred Berserker can kill some unprepared mages.

Someone capable of using Temporal Acceleration or Time Stop (or similar "take actions while others can't act"-effect) along with the ability to cast/manifest shaped Anti-Magic/Null Psionics Field is very good as a mage killer, being able to use the Time Stop to move adjacent subjecting the opposing caster to your Field (if your square is affected, you of course cannot use Time Stop/Temporal Acceleration furcking all this up).


Overall, good ideas:
- Ability to kill caster in one turn at a range (say, 1000' or so)
- Avoiding detection (even just mundane Hide with Ex Hide in Plain Sight)
- Some kind of Divination-protection as far as possible (you probably can't do a damn thing about Contact Other Plane, but hey)
- Detection up to 1000'

Now, of course, you still need to somehow locate the mage you're hunting. Divinations are really the only way to go about that; Gather Information and company only get you so far. But if you somehow manage to actually find the damn mage and catch him with his combat defenses down, above is a list of stuff that might enable you to win.

herrhauptmann
2009-12-30, 09:01 PM
Use the magebane enchantment from MIC. I believe it's a +1 cost.
There's also psibane, which costs 1 more than magebane, but has an additional ability. It would be nice to put both on a weapon and say they stack if magic/psi transparency is in use. As a DM I probably wouldn't allow it unless the entire party was using similar things.

If you expect your enemies to do a lot of summoning, I'd recommend the Greensteel weapon (in whichever book has the Greenstar Adept PrC).
Take some ranger ACFs. Favored Enemy: Arcanist out of CMage or CArcane.
Also different weapon styles from Dragon magazine, also listed somewhere on Crystalkeep. Now you're not limited to TWF or Archery.
A few months back I made a magekiller, used fighter, witchslayer (tome of magic), and hellreaver. Occult slayer might've been better than witchslayer, but I liked getting Mettle. And of course Momentary Disjunction :)
Kensai abilities can be useful, free Bonuses to your chosen weapon.

Custom magic items: An item that uses the power Synthesete. Gives boost to spot+ search, or listen checks. OR negates blindness or deafness.
Item that grants you detect magic at will.
Those would cost about 5k each.
Perhaps look into an intelligent weapon, one which can heal you, or cast detect magic, dispel magic, or break enchantment.


edit: A reference to the above post about killing at 1000 feet. How about taking Cragtop archer from Races of Stone? If you don't want to be a goliath, but are willing to drop 3 levels into stoneblessed, you can be a cragtop archer of ANY race. From there, start adding on PrC's that boost your archery (not really sure which would be best, I don't like playing archers)

deuxhero
2009-12-30, 09:06 PM
In short, most people who read comments that say that they're playing a freakin game wrong? Are going to be rather insulted at best, and convinced you don't know of what you speak at worst.


You are playing the role of a super smart guy. A super smart guy making choices that will clearly get him killed is not acting like a super smart guy. If you are playing the super smart guy as an idiot, he is acting out of character, and that is wrong.


(though it's really "You want to be a god? You aren't going to do it running around in melee with your dinky d4 HD)

Talbot
2009-12-30, 09:10 PM
Factotum with a good mix of Mageslayer feats and FoI... use your extra actions and limited (but still valuable) spellcasting to set yourself up to get close enough/do enough damage to the mage before he can do much to you. With your Int and Dex to Init, you should be able to get the drop on him more often than not. Throw in some Iaijutsu focus and you ought to be able to drop the mage before he gets a spell off.

BenTheJester
2009-12-30, 09:13 PM
I once made a Barb with wing graft that wore a breastplate that had a continuous antimagic field effect on it.

He was quite good actually, but I guess you could get even more with a ToB class with this tactic.

Also, make sure your party is fine with it, as anything near you will have magic effect suppressed, which can be annoying in tight areas.

Overshee
2009-12-30, 09:18 PM
Alternatively, if you Okayed it with your GM and asked around the forums for some help, you might be able to take the Slayer (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/slayer.htm) and adapt it towards a mage slayer instead of psionics.

I'm NO rules expert, but I think it might be possible to take the general idea and make it work.

Aldizog
2009-12-30, 10:27 PM
You are playing the role of a super smart guy. A super smart guy making choices that will clearly get him killed is not acting like a super smart guy. If you are playing the super smart guy as an idiot, he is acting out of character, and that is wrong.


(though it's really "You want to be a god? You aren't going to do it running around in melee with your dinky d4 HD)

You had two points. First, that wizards would never be the ones using Mage Slayer. Generally agree. But I was speaking of casters using Mage Slayer, okay? Clerics, druids, duskblades, gishes, and so on could certainly find use for it, and they can easily get massive reach to take extra advantage of it. I have no interest in seeing exactly how a gish with the Mage Slayer line could break game balance further. I have some general ideas, but ask around here and I'm sure someone can come up with a build. It's enough for me to appreciate the fact that it's something special for non-magic-using PCs.

Your second point, and where you seem to say that those who play differently are "doing it wrong," is that mages should never need to cast defensively. Well guess what? Mages might be smart, but often so are their opponents. And the usefulness of a high Intelligence depends on the information you have. Even with Scrying, mages do not always have perfect information to come up with the perfect plan. They do not always choose the battlefield in actual games -- they might have to defend a particular site. They cannot anticipate every possible tactic that their opposition might use. If I'm playing the Mage Slayer character, and my party manages to develop clever tactics such that I can close to melee range with the enemy caster, it doesn't mean the DM was playing the enemy caster "wrong."

Signmaker
2009-12-30, 10:42 PM
Three levels of Knight. Sufficient reach. Mage Slayer. Lockdown feats. Anticipate Teleportation. Ambush the caster. Good times are had.

Unless, of course, the mage is burrow-capable. Or anything similarly naughty.

PhoenixRivers
2009-12-30, 11:29 PM
You are playing the role of a super smart guy. A super smart guy making choices that will clearly get him killed is not acting like a super smart guy. If you are playing the super smart guy as an idiot, he is acting out of character, and that is wrong.


(though it's really "You want to be a god? You aren't going to do it running around in melee with your dinky d4 HD)

You are playing a smart guy, yes. Presumably, not the only smart guy in the world. Presumably, not a smart guy that knows the future in clear terms.

Even a "super smart guy" isn't immune to opening a door and seeing an ogre on the other side, who readies his weapon. At level 3, this can be a rather sticky situation.

Further, you are confusing intelligence with wisdom. A super smart guy that's vastly overconfident of his own abilities might make dangerous, risky, unwise gambits. And guess what? That's a believable character. There's a lot of smart people IRL that have taken risks for gain that backfired. The name Ponzi springs to mind.

In other words: Even if you're smart, it's never wise to assume you'll never be caught with your pants down. You only need to be wrong once. That's why many players put contingent Dimension Doors and other such things into wizards. Because they know that eventually, they will make a mistake, or make a decision based on incomplete information, and will get in trouble.

I can tell you. In 1v1 arena combats, I've made more than a few AoO's from someone casting. If they'd casted defensively, they'd have been fine. But they didn't, because they thought I couldn't hit them in melee with a level 1 character at 35 feet away.

tyckspoon
2009-12-30, 11:43 PM
Alternatively, if you Okayed it with your GM and asked around the forums for some help, you might be able to take the Slayer (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/slayer.htm) and adapt it towards a mage slayer instead of psionics.

I'm NO rules expert, but I think it might be possible to take the general idea and make it work.

Doesn't really need adapting, actually. The core of its value is in Cerebral Blind, Cerebral Immunity, and good BAB + manifesting progression, all of which works just as well on spells as it does on psionic powers. The rest is anti-illithid chaff; the only thing I could see being kind of useful is if you are allowed to take Favored Enemy: Arcanist with it, but that's much more general than Slayer's Favored Enemy is supposed to be.

Unless you don't use psionics at all and just want a standard magic version of the class, in which case no, it's not that hard to do- swap the PP reserve requirement for 'able to cast 1st level spells', add a rule describing how you become Focused, and Slay on.

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-12-31, 12:57 AM
Three levels of Knight. Sufficient reach.

Four levels of Drunken Master. 100 ft ladders.

Shademan
2009-12-31, 09:20 AM
thanks for all the feedback, guys. I'm sure we can make a character outa this :smallbiggrin:

Paul H
2009-12-31, 10:43 AM
Hi

Play a Cleric!

Just cast Anti Magic Aura (whtever it's called), and hey presto - he's completely nerfed! Ok - so your spells don't work either, but you've got better BAB, AC, HP, etc. Go toe to toe & annihalate him!

Cheers
Paul H

Foryn Gilnith
2009-12-31, 10:45 AM
I think that Cheater of Mystra isn't quite martial enough.

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-12-31, 11:01 AM
Hi

Play a Cleric!

Just cast Anti Magic Aura (whtever it's called), and hey presto - he's completely nerfed! Ok - so your spells don't work either, but you've got better BAB, AC, HP, etc. Go toe to toe & annihalate him!

Cheers
Paul H

What if he takes a Withdraw action to move 60 feet away, and the cleric moves at a speed of 20ft due to heavy armor?

Signmaker
2009-12-31, 11:44 AM
Four levels of Drunken Master. 100 ft ladders.

I like where this is going.


Honestly though, DnD has too much variety to make a mage-killer that works 80% of the time, much less 100. The ones that do best are usually the ones that kill a mage in one round, because to let them live any longer would be to let them cast, which is never a good idea.

Quite possibly the closest thing you can manage is an Energy Transformative Field somehow cast right after a Disjunction (hard seeing as ETF takes 4 rounds), combined with a standard lock-down build. Even then that's a crapton of planning with only a percentage chance of success, rather than certainty.

Emmerask
2009-12-31, 12:39 PM
so a guy I know is trying to make a decent magekiller. but don't quite know how. aaand neither do I. Any advice for two dofuses?

wants it to be a rather martial character. And with some way to use dispel if possible (not as spell but class ability or sumfin')

Well there is the magekiller prc in magic of faerun :smalltongue:

Overshee
2009-12-31, 12:44 PM
Psychic Warrior into slayer is my recommendation, not knowing much outside of SRD.

herrhauptmann
2010-01-01, 02:58 AM
Well there is the magekiller prc in magic of faerun :smalltongue:

Strong or not, it's not a very martial PrC. Requires 4th level casting to enter, and improves you as a caster, not a martial character (which the OP wanted).

JaronK
2010-01-01, 03:23 AM
At the end of the day, the only way to kill a mage reliably is to make sure he never sees you coming. Generally, Swordsages and Factotums with Darkstalker and a great hide score are probably the best way... hit hard and fast and never let them act. Of course, you'll never know what defenses they have... some of their static defenses may screw you by the time you realize they're even there.

But something simple like Swordsage 2/Factotum X using Shadow Jaunt to teleport in and kill rapidly with poison and Iajuitsu Focus damage might get the job done.

JaronK

Stallion
2010-11-05, 11:32 AM
Something I recently came up with was a bit of a living siege weapon with an ECL 20. It operates perfectly in an antimagic field, so it would operate most effectively with a master specialist abjurer, as they can just hand those out (and I'd think this would work most likely with an un-magiking mage in RP terms).

Goliath (half-ogre would work better, but they aren't as flexible in terms of RP personality IMO) 1 warblade 2 fighter 8 forsaker 3 hulking hurler 4 bloodstorm blade.

So with this you would want to throw in the Vow of Poverty (I know, super lame). The +8 to str will be invaluable and you won't really be taking a blow equipment-wise since you've already forsaken the use of magic. Also, the ability to treat the boulder you'll be throwing as +5 good aligned weapons is pretty nifty. In any case, I've based this around a character that started with a max str roll, so in the case of the goliath, a starting strength of 22. You'll be getting an additional +8 from Vow of Poverty, +4 by the time you take all these class levels (silly +1 level adjustment), and a +8 from your forsaker levels. By the time you've reached the end of this you'll have a base strength of 42. Pretty respectable. As per with Really Throw Anything from Hulking Hurler, you'll be able to throw a boulder that weighs up to a little over 4,000 lbs. With Overburdened Heave, you'll be able to throw one up to a little over 5 and a half tons (11,000 lbs). Now I think the chart used for things that size would be the falling items chart, using the damage for it falling 10 feet. That ends up being a 20d6 shot as a standard action and a 55d6 Overburdened Heave even before we add in the strength bonus and Vow of Poverty enchantment bonus. Now we get to the fun part. Bloodstorm Blade's lovely little feature known as Lightning Ricochet. You basically will be bouncing a two-ton rock off of someone's head, catching it, and beaning them with it again. Full ranged attack style. So.... assuming all the attacks hit, which with Brutal Throw, Proficiency and focus with boulders, and your lovely strength bonus is fairly likely, given the average fullcasting mage doesn't really walk around being nigh unhittable, not many spellcasters will be able to survive a total of 80d6+116 points of damage.

Sir Swindle89
2010-11-05, 11:51 AM
3 words Half Iron Golem
may be one is a compound word any way magic immunity is a nice touch for a mage slayer.

Then somthing like occult salyer or set your self up as a lock down fighter.
May be do some incarnum stuff to get a blink shirt and the flying shoes. or find a better way to close the gap between you and them.

Those are just the off the top of my head ideas tho.

One more thing. there was a class or PrC in sword and fist that got SR and couldn't use magic or magic items mage slaying was like their job. take that and Vow of Poverty and you might do ok. I don't have books here so i can't math it up too much.

^^sorta what stallion said but with some more options.

Stallion
2010-11-05, 11:56 AM
3 words Half Iron Golem
One more thing. there was a class or PrC in sword and fist that got SR and couldn't use magic or magic items mage slaying was like their job. take that and Vow of Poverty and you might do ok. I don't have books here so i can't math it up too much.

^^sorta what stallion said but with some more options.

That was the Forsaker in Masters of the Wild.


^.^

Noodles2375
2010-11-05, 12:04 PM
3 words Half Iron Golem
may be one is a compound word any way magic immunity is a nice touch for a mage slayer.


You should be careful with magic immunity, usually I think this is supposed to give you infinite SR, but powerful rocket spells like the orb line ignore SR anyway.

Sir Swindle89
2010-11-05, 12:09 PM
You should be careful with magic immunity, usually I think this is supposed to give you infinite SR, but powerful rocket spells like the orb line ignore SR anyway.

Ya i was going to mention getting a reflex save because most Vs AC,Fort,Will spells are targeted or you'd be immune to them.

blackjack217
2010-11-05, 12:19 PM
10 month necro? start a new thread and link to the old one

averagejoe
2010-11-05, 02:14 PM
The Mod They Call Me: Thread necromancy.