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AirGuitarGod32
2010-01-02, 01:54 AM
I fell in love with swordsage!!

However, I am in searching of a pseudo-optimized build using a weapon like a polearm or twin scimmys.

The race will be generic Half-Elf

the rest of the party is as follows:

Female Half-Celestial Fave Soul of Odur
Male Elf Paladin of Corelleon
Female Gnome Wu Jen
Male Dwarf Barbarian

Longcat
2010-01-02, 02:43 AM
Are you guys using pointbuy (if so, what number?) or rolled stats?
What level will you start at?
Which sourcebooks does your DM allow?
Do you want a pure Swordsage, or is multiclassing ok for you?

AirGuitarGod32
2010-01-02, 02:50 AM
Are you guys using pointbuy (if so, what number?) or rolled stats?
What level will you start at?
Which sourcebooks does your DM allow?
Do you want a pure Swordsage, or is multiclassing ok for you?

Pointbuy as follows: 18 (x2) 17 (x2) 16(x2)
Lv 1
Basically any minus Incarnum and psionics plus some homebrew (Rule 0)
baisically, I want a 20lv blueprint. Multiclassing is okay

ex cathedra
2010-01-02, 03:12 AM
Dual-scimitars or a Polearm is required? Also, are you alright with campaign specific material?

Finally, has your DM houseruled Half-elves to, you know, not suck? If not, I would use a different race, unless it's non-negotiable.

AirGuitarGod32
2010-01-02, 03:14 AM
Dual-scimitars or a Polearm is required? Also, are you alright with campaign specific material?

Finally, has your DM houseruled Half-elves to, you know, not suck? If not, I would use a different race, unless it's non-negotiable.

wth. sure thing

and its either half-orc or half-elf

Longcat
2010-01-02, 03:25 AM
Wow, those stats are awesome. I've always thought that our DM was lenient with 36PB, but then again, ymmv.

Also, what I forgot to ask, what house rules do you use? Are flaws allowed?

Does "No psionics" stand for "nothing with psionic casting", or is all content from all psionic books banned? I'm asking because the availabiliy of "Stand still" (a non-psionic feat from the Expanded Psionics Handbook) matters for the polearm fighting style.

For polearms, I'd suggest grabbing "Thicket of Blades" stance, Combat Reflexes, Stormguard Warrior and Armor spikes (to cover for the minimum reach). Essentially, you'll be using Thicket of Blades and a reach weapon (e.g. Guisarme or Glaive) to generate AoOs from anyone moving within your reach. Use those AoOs to fuel Stormguard Warrior, and attack your enemies with massive +hit and +dmg bonus. This will require some multiclassing, since Iron Heart and Devoted Spirit are normally not available for Swordsages.

Build stub:
Str 18, Dex 17, Con 17, Int 16, Wis 18, Cha 16

Swordsage1: Combat Reflexes, Flaw: Stand Still, Stance: Hunter's Sense
Swordsage2: Stance: Flame's Blessing
Swordsage3: Power attack
Swordsage4: +1 Con
Swordsage4/Crusader1: Stance: Leading the Charge
Swordsage4/Crusader1/Warblade1: Iron Heart Aura, Stance: Punishing Stance
Swordsage4/Crusader2/Warblade1: Stance: Thicket of Blades, +1 Dex
Swordsage5/Crusader2/Warblade1:
Swordsage6/Crusader2/Warblade1: Stormguard Warrior
Swordsage7/Crusader2/Warblade1:
Swordsage7/Crusader2/Warblade2/:
Swordsage7/Crusader2/Warblade3/: +1 Str, Improved Bull Rush
Swordsage7/Crusader2/Warblade3/Eternal Blade1:
Swordsage7/Crusader2/Warblade3/Eternal Blade2:
Swordsage7/Crusader2/Warblade3/Eternal Blade3: Robilar's Gambit
Swordsage7/Crusader2/Warblade3/Eternal Blade4: +1 Str
Swordsage7/Crusader2/Warblade3/Eternal Blade5:
Swordsage7/Crusader2/Warblade3/Eternal Blade6: Shock Trooper
Swordsage7/Crusader2/Warblade3/Eternal Blade7:
Swordsage7/Crusader2/Warblade3/Eternal Blade8: +1 Str

Pretty standard build, actually. Leading the Charge+Shock Trooper+Power attack will allow for some decent mobility, and the AoO generation described above should provide for ample damage.

ex cathedra
2010-01-02, 03:27 AM
I was going to mention a build with Eternal Blade, but I remembered that Swordsages have 3/4 BAB and EB requires a +10.

:smallwink:

Longcat
2010-01-02, 03:29 AM
Oops, that what I get for being AFB, I guess :smallredface:

Ok, fixed the build stub.

AirGuitarGod32
2010-01-02, 03:30 AM
Wow, those stats are awesome. I've always thought that our DM was lenient with 36PB, but then again, ymmv.

Also, what I forgot to ask, what house rules do you use? Are flaws allowed?

Does "No psionics" stand for "nothing with psionic casting", or is all content from all psionic books banned? I'm asking because the availabiliy of "Stand still" (a non-psionic feat from the Expanded Psionics Handbook) matters for the polearm fighting style.


His rules

HRs: Based on an achievement system, no psi classes, no incarnum, no point-based junk, on nat1, fumble roll.

Flaws are in, and traits are not feats

AirGuitarGod32
2010-01-02, 04:27 AM
also considered a "Voldo-type", minus the creepy bending and stuff.

or basically any twf

AirGuitarGod32
2010-01-02, 01:19 PM
any other options y'all?

Master_Rahl22
2010-01-02, 02:25 PM
My favorite Swordsage build is Unarmed Swordsage 3, possibly 2 levels of Monk for the tasty bonus feats, Shadow Sun Ninja 10, Master of Nine 5 for awesome unarmed damage, maneuvers that help you out-monk a Monk, and 4 or 5 level 9 maneuvers if you plan it carefully.

My favorite TWF build is Warblade leading into 2 or 3 levels of Bloodclaw Master, Dervish 10, then finishing with Warblade. Awesome TWF synergy, you get to TWF with Scimitars since Dervish lets you treat them as light, and Girallon Windmill Fleshrip + A Thousand Cuts = Pure Win. Here (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19870778/The_Dervish_Handbook?post_id=338371426#338371426) is a great build that doesn't mention Bloodclaw Master, but it should be easy to slip in someplace since it continues to advance IL. His build assumes 1 Flaw and Human, so if you're stuck on non-human then you'll need 2 Flaws.

AirGuitarGod32
2010-01-02, 02:38 PM
I actually hope to utilize a Half-Elf Swordsage as a skillmonkey/secondary combatant

AirGuitarGod32
2010-01-02, 02:47 PM
Would this combo work:

Swordsage6/Scout4/Eternal Blade10?

and if this works well, what Disciplines (yes, homebrew are allowed. If posted, plz post a link) and what weapons would be optimal

Longcat
2010-01-02, 02:49 PM
Eternal Blade requires BAB+10.

AirGuitarGod32
2010-01-02, 02:50 PM
Eternal Blade requires BAB+10.

how to boost that...

Feat Ranger instead of scout?

Longcat
2010-01-02, 02:54 PM
Swordsage still only has 3/4 BAB, which means Swordsages cannot gain access to Eternal Blade's Capstone pre-epic.

AirGuitarGod32
2010-01-02, 03:00 PM
Swordsage still only has 3/4 BAB, which means Swordsages cannot gain access to Eternal Blade's Capstone pre-epic.

so most Elf-exclusive melee classes are out of Swordsage's reach?

robotrobot2
2010-01-02, 03:15 PM
You could always multiclass swordsage with something else to meet the eternal blade reqs. You would never reach capstone, but you could still gain a pretty decent number of levels. Go swordsage 8/something with full BAB 4/Eternal Blade 8. You'll get the capstone level 22 if your game gets that far.

AirGuitarGod32
2010-01-02, 03:38 PM
So basically, pre-epic, without blatantly dropping half of swordsage at the least, Eternal Blade is a far-off dream to say the least?

Longcat
2010-01-02, 03:40 PM
You can still take it, and it is still viable, but you'll have to make do without the capstone ability.

AirGuitarGod32
2010-01-02, 03:47 PM
So Island in Time. I can live without it, but it'll hurt in the non-epic longrun.

I'll have some fun with the combo of either Warblade multiclassing or Non-Magic Ranger multiclassing.

Weapon and Discipline combos?

Eldariel
2010-01-02, 04:03 PM
Classic Rogue 4/Swashbuckler 3/Swordsage 13 with Daring Outlaw is pretty good. Gets Penetrating Strike, Int to damage (with those stats, every stat you can add to anything kicks ass), especially for TWF. Just plain Feat Rogue 2/Unarmed Swordsage 10/Warblade 1/Master of the Nine 5/YMMV 2 is pretty nice.

Weapon Focus...well, for whatever you'll use obviously. Insightful Strike makes for nice Wis SAD; if you have Barbarian dip and Bounding attack, that's a really nice attack with Wis to damage rolls on all attacks, and double move into charge. Tiger Claw offers some interesting option, and Desert Wind/Shadow Hand allows you to add them to the damage maneuvers (though those tend to be otherwise lackluster; that said, either is best off as Wisdom SAD since they're fond of Wis-based saves).


In general, you won't probably want Elf-specific stuff, but you can get lots of kickass stuff as basic Swordsage, Unarmed or otherwise. Just Swordsage 20 is a fine build, but e.g. Rogue-dip for expanded skillmonkery + SA (from Swashbuckler too) or Warblade (for maneuvers and BAB) or such are fine.

AirGuitarGod32
2010-01-02, 04:07 PM
I see...

And I just reread Eternal Blade. Half-Elf cannot be an EB

Eldariel
2010-01-02, 04:12 PM
I see...

And I just reread Eternal Blade. Half-Elf cannot be an EB

Half-Elves can, by strict reading of the rules, be EB since they qualify for everything as if they were Elves.

AirGuitarGod32
2010-01-02, 04:22 PM
Half-Elves can, by strict reading of the rules, be EB since they qualify for everything as if they were Elves.

ugh. Fine print sucks

golentan
2010-01-02, 05:02 PM
I'd reccomend taking some Bloodclaw Master. Easy to qualify for, and can get you some nasty Tiger Claw synergy stuff (which, since it's already one of the nastiest disciplines...) TWF is a must if you're going that route, obviously.

Take adaptive style ALWAYS. Remember that by RAW (if not by errata and RAI) you can prepare the same maneuver multiple times. This doesn't hurt the game for the most part, despite the sage's shrill cries. I always try to keep the diamond mind saving throw ones readied, along with one of the "Up Yours" attacks. At first level, that's probably Wolf Fang strike or Sapphire Nightmare blade. That way if you get jumped you have something you can do, and in the meantime you have massive saves whenever needed (and can swap them out for some more up yours attacks).

As for going skillmonkey, what do you mean? You can't replace a rogue for disabling traps. But shadow hand and tiger claw can get you all sorts of places by going around them.

AirGuitarGod32
2010-01-02, 06:22 PM
As for going skillmonkey, what do you mean? You can't replace a rogue for disabling traps. But shadow hand and tiger claw can get you all sorts of places by going around them.

the idea is to be the group skillmonkey. and no Rogue, Factorum, and Savant. I'd like to acutally be a threat to anything other than a labotomized orc