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Arakune
2010-01-08, 07:27 AM
What is the minimum level I can take that for a non Martial Adept Class?

Brendan
2010-01-08, 07:29 AM
first, maybe if you are human. Or a fighter.

Runestar
2010-01-08, 07:38 AM
Depending on how your DM rules the halving of initiator lv, either 1st, 3rd or 6th lv.

If he rounds down, a 1st lv non-adept will have an IL of 0. If a fighter, he can take martial study at 2nd lv, paving the way for martial stance at 3rd lv. Else, you can only take study at 3rd lv, and stance at 6th.

If he rules that IL is minimum 1, then you can take it at 1st lv.

Pharaoh's Fist
2010-01-08, 09:00 AM
IIRC, IL rounds up.

KillianHawkeye
2010-01-08, 10:15 AM
IIRC, IL rounds up.

Really? Do you have a page reference for that? Almost everything rounds down in D&D.

Duke of URL
2010-01-08, 10:41 AM
Initiator level rounds down, like everything else. IL for non-adept classes is equal to 1/2 character level.

The question becomes whether or not you can take 1st level maneuvers and stances with an IL of 0. If not, you'll generally have to be at least 3rd level to get a stance (getting a bonus feat at level 2, such as Fighter 2 to get Martial Study, and then use your general 3rd level feat for Martial Stance).

Boci
2010-01-08, 10:48 AM
The question becomes whether or not you can take 1st level maneuvers and stances with an IL of 0. If not, you'll generally have to be at least 3rd level to get a stance (getting a bonus feat at level 2, such as Fighter 2 to get Martial Study, and then use your general 3rd level feat for Martial Stance).

ToB say that whilst IL for non-martial adept classes is rounded down, at level 1 only it is rounded up.

Yuki Akuma
2010-01-08, 10:52 AM
Basically "1/2 HD, minimum 1", just like... everything like that in the whole game.

Person_Man
2010-01-08, 11:05 AM
On page 39 of the ToB it explains Initiator level. The minimum Initiator level for selecting a 1st level maneuver is 1. Your Initiator level for each discipline is equal to your martial adept class level in the class that provides access to that (Crusader, Swordsage, or Warblade) plus 1/2 your levels in all other classes (not hit die). Thus to gain an Initiator level of 1, a non-Initiator must be at least 2nd level. So at 2nd level, a Fighter could choose the Martial Study feat. And at 3rd level, anyone could choose the Martial Stance feat. Non-Fighters will have to wait until 3rd level to choose the Martial Study feat, and 6th level to choose the Martial Stance feat.

Runestar
2010-01-08, 09:44 PM
I noticed that for all the sample npcs in ToB, they round fractional IL up.

This includes the Jade phoenix mage, shadow sun ninja (at least, it has to round up for him to take a martial study feat at 1st lv) and ruby knight vindicator prcs.

Ignore my earlier statement, folks. :smallredface:

Draz74
2010-01-09, 01:21 AM
I noticed that for all the sample npcs in ToB, they round fractional IL up.

I noticed that for all the sample NPCs in ... all books, there's a greater than 50% chance of them having an error somewhere. :smalltongue:

2xMachina
2010-01-09, 05:52 AM
But the chance where ALL of the sample is in error? That's one serious boop up if so.

Boci
2010-01-10, 04:53 PM
But the chance where ALL of the sample is in error? That's one serious boop up if so.

My guess would be that here the person who made the sample characters wasn't the same person to deal with IL details.

Darrin
2010-01-11, 12:25 AM
I noticed that for all the sample npcs in ToB, they round fractional IL up.

This includes the Jade phoenix mage, shadow sun ninja (at least, it has to round up for him to take a martial study feat at 1st lv) and ruby knight vindicator prcs.

Ignore my earlier statement, folks. :smallredface:

All of the sample ToB NPCs have the correct IL except the Jade Phoenix Mage, where the IL was rounded up to 8. The rest of the sample NPCs have an even number of non-Martial Adept levels, except for the RKV, which has the IL correctly rounded down to 7.

Runestar
2010-01-11, 01:17 AM
except for the RKV, which has the IL correctly rounded down to 7.

I could have sworn it was an 8...

Are you sure you didn't go back in time and edit the printing or something? :smallfurious:

So now we have 3 interpretations.

1) IL rounds down, minimum 1 (supports shadow sun ninja)
2) IL rounds up (supports phoenix mage)
3) IL rounds down, not sure if there is a minimum (RKV)

Kallisti
2010-01-11, 01:40 AM
IIRC, IL rounds up.

Wrong, much to my disappointment during character creation earlier today. Look up the example for multiclassing and IL. The example they cite is a Crusader 7/Swordsage 5. He initiates as a Crusader 9 and Swordsage 8. 7 + (5/2)=9.5, rounded down to 9. Same for the Swordsage levels. So unless there's a specific rule that states, explicitly, that IL rounds up then it rounds down.

Sinfire Titan
2010-01-11, 08:42 AM
Wrong, much to my disappointment during character creation earlier today. Look up the example for multiclassing and IL. The example they cite is a Crusader 7/Swordsage 5. He initiates as a Crusader 9 and Swordsage 8. 7 + (5/2)=9.5, rounded down to 9. Same for the Swordsage levels. So unless there's a specific rule that states, explicitly, that IL rounds up then it rounds down.

And then later on in the same book every sample NPC's IL is rounded up. Including the base class samples (IIRC).

Darrin
2010-01-11, 09:15 AM
And then later on in the same book every sample NPC's IL is rounded up. Including the base class samples (IIRC).

Might want to look a little more closely at the book. The only sample NPC that rounds up is the Jade Phoenix Mage.

And the base class samples can't round up, since they only have full Martial Adept levels.

Mark Hall
2010-01-11, 12:06 PM
RAW is probably 2. I'd go with 1, however.