Erfworld game, a co-op perhaps?

[Org]

Has anyone wanted to make the game a real game? Seems like it would be cool IMHO.

[The Dark Fiddler]

Yes, many people, but we don't know enough about the game yet.

Maybe by the end of the series, if Rob, Jamie, Xin, and whoever want to or give enough info for the fans to make one.

[Org]

I actually think we do know about much of the game. True, somethings haven't really come into play yet, such as many of the classes of magic.

But maybe those who want to can all help to make a fan game until there is such a time when the comic designers themselves release rules and such for the game.

Anyone wish to take part in said co-op?

[littlebottom]

it could be interesting but im busy this week so i wont be much help :smallsigh:

[Org]

Ahh. Thats okay.If you can help, anytimje at all, that is fine. :smallsmile:

[slayerx]

You should check erfworld's forums
They had a thread going on about it, but i don't think much was going on

[Org]

I know. Read it yesterday.
But, you know, doesn't really have any depth to it. Seems kinda meh.
Oh ****. Wait. Maybe people are getting confused by what I mean.
I am not talking about a computer game. Tabletop.
SHHHHIIIIIII-

[The Dark Fiddler]

I wasn't confused, I knew what you meant.


I actually think we do know about much of the game. True, somethings haven't really come into play yet, such as many of the classes of magic.

The thing is, though, the things we don't really know (magic schools and casters in general, how currency and battles work, unit abilities, and the list goes on) are all fairly important to the game.

Edit: Still, if you really want to go through with it, I won't stop you, and I might even look forward to the end of the project. I'm just pointing out how making a completely accurate game would be difficult at this point, and that a better version, or an official version, might come out later when more information is available.

[Org]

Yep. It will not be 100% accurate. But one thing is, who knows when they would release it? 2 years? 3 years?

While it may not be 100% accurate, we would have it now.

[Org]

Well, Dark Fiddler. Would you wish to help? You seem fairly active.

First things first:
Obviously, this game should be 3+ players, as one person will have to be a moderator of sorts, as he handles generating the numbers for combat and controlling wild animals and tribes and such as that. Other players start Sides, each starting with a Capital City, and maybe 1000 Schmuckers(well, this is only a guess. Maybe 500.). Each side can ally with Natural Allies(gobwins, marbits, elves)and can Tame(? something around this) Wild Animals and maybe pop them after. I guess you can also give schmuckers to the natural allies to pop themselves(as I think thats how it worked. IIRC. From the wiki). Maybe you should start with a King. Hmm.

Errr, anyone want to help with throwing around some ides?

[LurkerInPlayground]

First off, being accurate to the source material is pointless. Being "true to the original" is overrated. Just make the game. Screw canon.

Secondly, keep the rules simple. The more complex they are, the harder it is to resolve battles. You probably already have to track the movements of dozens, if not hundreds of stacks. Consider that you may have to do action resolutions for most of them in a single turn. Luckily, a war probably shouldn't last too many turns. Depth should be an emergent property of play and shouldn't be mistaken for complexity in rules.

Thirdly, get one of those dry-erase hexgrid maps and water soluble markers. Maybe some kind of software program to store relevant GM data. It would be also nice if players have their own maps that they must be responsible for. The GM has the "real map" while players must update their own information.

Another problem is that a lot of Erfworld sides seem to have unique units. It doesn't appear that all sides have access to the same kinds of units. Transylvito, for example, has some rather exotic unit types when compared to a side like Jetstone.

So you'd have to come up with rather generic units that places like Unatard, Sofa King or Jetstone would use (which are fairly universal) then come up with sides which are less generic (e.g. Faq and Transylvito). It's probably best to keep most unit information that a side cannot pop a secret unless magic allows access to that info.

Anyway, I'd try to keep the unit lists fairly simple and make sure that "special" abilities are the exception, not the rule. A unit's particular uniqueness should depend rather simply on a line of stats. Otherwise there'll be more information to handle. Magic alone will complicated enough because you'll have to handle individual "juice" totals for casting types and follow their specialized task resolution rules.

Things like Loyalty stats are probably best handled as "invisible." Leave these things up to individual players to roleplay warlords, casters, heirs and kings. That way you can cram a lot of players on one side. Also, it'd be interesting if a team of players came up with their own theme and joke-references for their side (e.g. Faq is vaguely East-Asian themed). Some themes, of course, may simply be a result of whatever side they happened to be (e.g. the players decide that although they are vampires, they are mafia-themed vampires).

This also simplifies task management for unit types that have complex abilities. A player that is roleplaying a caster is responsible for keeping track of their own juice totals and what their abilities can do.

Special units that don't have a player "behind the wheel" must be treated like NPC's by the GM.

[Org]

So, so true. As you said, the hard part will be the fact of keeping track of individual stats, such as juice. Another thing is that I do want to be slightly accurate. Meh.

"Thirdly, get one of those dry-erase hexgrid maps and water soluble markers. Maybe some kind of software program to store relevant GM data."

What are these?(I know the markers, but I have never seen dry erase hexgrid boards. Or maybe I do not understand clearly what you are talking about?

"Anyway, I'd try to keep the unit lists fairly simple and make sure that "specials" are the exception, not the rule. A unit's particular uniqueness should depend rather simply on a line of stats. Otherwise there'll be more information to handle. Magic alone will complicated enough because you'll have to handle individual "juice" totals for casting types and follow their specialized task resolution rules."

Oh yes. As there are really only 4 classes(stabber, archer, piker, and knight(unless there are others. I remember axemen, crossbowmen, and there was one more that I don't recall, but maybe those were special Marbit units?)). Magic will be hard, as not alot is known, although we can just make some stuff up.

"Things like Loyalty stats are probably best handled as "invisible." Leave these things up to individual players to roleplay warlords, casters, heirs and kings. That way you can cram a lot of players on one side."
Are you saying for a character, once popped, to maybe be "taken" over by a person?

"Special units that don't have a player "behind the wheel" must be treated like NPC's by the GM."
Yeah. Like wild units. Or tribes. I think thats what you were saying.

"Overall, K.I.S.S."
Knights in Stanely's Service?
No, I am joking. I know what it means.

"Depth should be an emergent property of play and shouldn't be mistaken for complexity in rules. "
Indeed.

[LurkerInPlayground]

Ah. Well there are play mats that a lot of hobby stores will sell. It goes for about ~$20 and is popular amongst roleplayers.

It looks like this:
http://art.penny-arcade.com/photos/758886459_44C8i-O.jpg
It rolls-up rather nicely and the reverse side has a square-grid instead of a hexagonal one.

There are also probably a lot of software floating about that wargamers and roleplayers use (typically for overworld movement).

I don't really know a whole lot about the wargaming scene. But it seems like a great place to find ideas.


Oh yes. As there are really only 4 classes(stabber, archer, piker, and knight(unless there are others. I remember axemen, crossbowmen, and there was one more that I don't recall, but maybe those were special Marbit units?)). Magic will be hard, as not alot is known, although we can just make some stuff up.
Well, there are Heavies (e.g. various golems) and Siege units. Transylvito has bats, which double as free recon since their warlords are telepathically linked.

The way I figure it, you can stat up "basic" units and have players come up with their fluff. The fluff doesn't affect stats.

Then you should make the occasional side a wild curveball to keep things interesting. For example, a recent update explains that the Don has the best surveillance capabilities of any other king because of those bats.

So while there are conventional strategies, a side might churn out a mystery-unit that throws a side for a loop.

Jillian's initial reaction to the bats were that they were weak. Until Vinny explained how they worked, she was quite ready to underestimate their capabilities.

It might be interesting to have two opposing sides (i.e. player teams) with wildly different tech trees.

As for NPC's, I'm not just referring to natural allies but to casters, warlords and such which do not have players actively controlling them. Although I'm sure you could come up with a easy loyalty mechanism, my first instinct is to simply grok what I think is logical for a NPC would do rather than roll for their morale or loyalty or whatever.

As for Erfworld canon, Faq and Transylvito seem like sides which are very air-oriented. Perhaps because they both live geographically in mountainous areas.

[Org]

The mat looks awesome. Wow. Haven't seen anything like it. Yeah, I know one program, called GameTable, but I'm not too sure how well it would do.

4 classes of basic infantry is what I meant. Then there is also cavalry.

Yeah

Twolls.

[The Dark Fiddler]

Well, Dark Fiddler. Would you wish to help? You seem fairly active.

I might help with organizing or something, but I'm not much of a war-game person myself.

Also; note the might.


First off, being accurate to the source material is pointless. Being "true to the original" is overrated. Just make the game. Screw canon.

But then it's not Erfworld. :smalltongue: Or maybe InNameOnly

[Org]

That would be nice.

[Org]

I made a post of this on the Erfworld forums. Letting them know, and asking for helpers.

[fangthane]

I think that by far the most daunting thing about a project like this is the amount of balance some elements will need to receive, and the decision as to how far to take the game, relative to the webcomic.

Arkentools - leave them in, or take them out as overpowered destroyers of balance?
Tri-mancer linkups - what each might be capable of accomplishing is in question, as well as what each should be capable of doing vis-a-vis balance.
Unknown content - We know there's dance-fighting and we know a little about magic; there's more about magic that we don't know than what we do, and we're blissfully unaware of whether there're other forms of pseudo-combat (dozens, stand-up vs hecklers, freestyle rap, musical showdowns, etc)

Also, I should point out that for most of us, it's a serious issue to gather sufficient gamer-geeks for D&D, let alone to represent every Person of Interest in an Erf-style wargame. If you're going to make something anyone will ever play, it has to allow for one person to control a side wholesale.

I do have an idea as to how loyalty could be handled under these circumstances and remain a mystery, but it's a bit complex and involves 'loyalty challenges' - face-down loyalty cards, die rolls for the check and a new loyalty card after each check, and 'permanent' effects to add + or - loyalty modifiers to friends/enemies/torture victims. For example, pay the bazillion schmuckers for an iron maiden, rack and everything, and you get a better chance to affect your prisoner's loyalty (with a certain number of successful checks needed to fully turn a character)

[Org]

My notes so far

With any given hex, there is a 65% chance that it will be open, 10% that it will be water, 10% forest, 10% mountain, and 5% will be desert.

In a water hex, there is a 90% chance that all hexes bordering it will be water, unless already designated as something else. From there, there is a 70% of the same, then 50%, then 35%, then 25%, then 15%, then 10%, 5%, 1%, 0%.

In a mountain hex, there is a 75% chance that all hexes bordering it will be mountain, unless already designated as something else. It goes down to 60%, 40%, 30%, 20%, 10%, 3%, 0%.

In a forest hex, there is an 80% chance that all bordering hexes will be forest, unless already designated as something else. It goes to 70%, 55%, 40%, 25%, 10%, 5%, 0%.

70% of mountain hexes include tunnels. 30% of the hexes with tunnels have entrances to the surface. In any network of tunnels, at least 1/10 of the tunnel hexes must have an entrance. 20% of mountain hexes are high mountains, 50% are medium mountains, and 30% are low mountains.

In a desert hex, there is a 75% chance all bordering hexes will be desert unless already designated as something else. It goes to 65%, 50%, 35%, 20%, 5%.

75% of forest hexes are light forest. 25% are dense forest.

In a cluster of water hexes, the middle 25% are deep water.

Cities can only exist in open, low mountain, desert, or light forest hexes.

Movement Penalties
Open-None
Shallow Water- 2 to Move, None to Water Capable
Deep Water- Impassable, 2 to Water Capable
Low Mountain- 6 to Move
High Mountain- Impassable
Light Forest- 2 to Move
Dense Forest- 4 to Move
Desert-3 to Move

Commander: A unit with the leadership special.
Infantry: A catch-all for humanoid, non-heavy units without the mount special.
-Stabber Class: Balanced.
-Piker Class: Bonus to combat against cavalry.
-Archer Class: Bonus against flying units
-Knight Class: Overall better.
Cavalry: A catch-all for units with the mount special.
Heavies: A catch-all for units with the heavy special. Can not, with some exceptions, enter tunnels or ride mounts.
Fliers: A catch-all for units with the flight special.
Unit types can be merged, for instance: A light unit without the mount special but with the flight special is an infantry flier.

Non-combat specials (aka specials that are not limited to providing combat bonuses):
Light:These units may walk in tuneels. All units have this unless stated that they have Heavy.
Flight: Allows units to enter the airspace of cities. Flying units can only be engaged by other fliers or archers. Non-fliers can not engage fliers while in dense forest, unless they are forest-capable. Flight gives units a x2 bonus against all non-flier units.
Tunnel-Figjting: Tunnel-Fighting gives units a x2 bonus while in a tunnel.
Mountain-Capable: Allows units to enter low mountain hexes without penalties normally incurred by low mountain hexes and medium mountain hexes with half penalties normally incurred by medium mountains. Provides a x2 bonus while in mountain hexes.
Forest-Capable: Allows units to enter dense forest hexes without penalties normally incurred by dense forest hexes and provides a x2 bonus while in light forest hexes.
Water-Capable: Allows units to enter water hexes. Water-capable units can only be attacked by fliers, other water capable units, and archery units.
Dive-Capable: Allows units to dive in deep water. Only Water-Capable units can have this special. While diving, units can only be engaged by other divers.
Heavy: Heavies are incapable of riding mounts and entering tunnels, with some exceptions.
Mount: Allows infantry units to ride the mount. While doing this, they share all non-combat specials with their mount, except for mount and heavy.
Mining:Grants a +5 Bonus to the Mining Table.

Combat specials:
Leadership: Allows units to lead stacks.
Archery: Allows use of ranged weapons without penalties.
Dance-Fighting: Allows units to dance-fight when led by a dance-fighting commander.
Breath Weapon: Allows units to use a breath weapon, such as a red dwagon's fire.
Caster: Allows a unit to use magic. Caster type is chosen from this chart.

Combat
When you have a unit in one hex, it can charge into an adjacent hex, into combat with the enemy units there. Add together the unit's Combat, and Defense stats if they are in a stack. Apply multipliers, and then roll 2d6 for the Attackers and subtract the Enemies' Defense stat. They take that many hits. The Defender's Counter, but get a d6 bonus.

Cities
Capital City
A Capital City is your largest city, and if you lose it, your side disbands. A Capital city follows the following chart for Schmucker making:

Level Schmuckers
1 50
2 75
3 125
4 175
5 250

Capital Cities follow the following Chart for Unit Production
Level Units(Turns)
1 Stabber(3), Piker(5), Archer(5)
2 Warlord(25), Knight(10)
3 Heir(60)
4
5

Level Amount of Units to Queue
1 5
2 10
3 15
4 20
5 25

Tamed Animals will have a Tier of their own.

City
Level Schmuckers
1 10
2 25
3 50
4 75
5 100

Level Units(Turns)
1 Stabber(5), Piker(7), Archer(7)
2 Warlord(35), Knight(15)
3
4
5

Level Amount of Units to Queue
1 5
2 5
3 10
4 10
5 15

You can build a City for 10000 Schmuckers. You can level it up for 1000 Schmuckers.

You can upgrade a Capital for 2500.

Hunting
Hunting can only be done in Open Fields or Forests. For every unit that does it, roll for the following table.

Hunting Table
Roll Effect
1/2 You find nothing, or it gets away from you.
3/5 You are able to catch some small game. 2d6 Schmuckers.
6/9 You are able to find some larger animals. 3d6 Schmuckers
10 You hunt down "A Big One. However, it has a 50% chance of dealing d6 Hits to the unit. 5d6 Schmuckers

For every 10 hunts in a turn, there is a 5% chance the animals disappear for a while. For every 5 turns after this happens, there is a 10% they return, increasing by 10% every 5 turns.

Mining
Can only be done in Tunnels.

Mining Table
Roll Effect
1/20 You find some pebbles.
21/40 You find a small gem. 1d6 Schmuckers
41/60 You find a larger gem. 2d10 Schmuckers
61/99 You find a perfect stone. 3d10 Schmuckers.
100 Maybe an Artifact? Or a 4d10 Scmuckers.

For every 10 mines in a turn, there is a 15% chance the gems disappear for a while. For every 5 turns after this happens, there is a 5% they return, increasing by 5% every 5 turns.

Tribes
Marbit
Marbit Stabber
Upkeep:3
Movement:8
Hits:2
Combat:1
Defense:1
Special:Tunnel-Fighting, Miner

Marbit Crossbowmen
Upkeep:6
Movement:8
Hits:2
Combat:1/2
Defense:1
Special:Ranged,Tunnel-Fighting, Miner

Marbit Axemen
Upkeep:10
Movement:8
Hits:2
Combat:2
Defense:1
Special:Tunnel-Fighting, Miner

Marbit Chief
Upkeep:25
Movement:8
Hits:5
Combat:2
Defense:1
Special:Tunnel-Fighting, Leadership

Woodsy Elves
Woodsy Archer
Upkeep:12
Movement:14
Hits:3
Combat:1/3
Defense:2
Special:Ranged, Forest Capable

Gump
Upkeep:35
Movement:10
Hits:12
Combat:5
Defense:5
Special:Forest Capable, Heavy

Woodsy Chief
Upkeep:35
Movement:14
Hits:7
Combat:2/3
Defense:2
Special:Ranged, Leadership, Forest Capable

Shady Elves
Shady Archer
Upkeep:8
Movement:14
Hits:3
Combat:1/2
Defense:2
Special:Ranged

Shady Stabber
Upkeep:10
Hits:4
Movement:14
Combat:2
Defense:2
Special:

Shady Chief
Upkeep:30
Movement:14
Hits:7
Combat:2
Defense:2
Special:Leadership

Luckless Elves
Luckless Archer
Upkeep:6
Movement:12
Hits:2
Combat:1/1
Defense:2
Special:Ranged, Luckless

Luckless Stabber
Upkeep:8
Movement:12
Hits:2
Combat:2
Defense:2
Special:Luckless

Luckless Chief
Upkeep:25
Movement:12
Hits:6
Combat:2
Defense:2
Special:Luckless

Eager Elves
Eager Stabber
Upkeep:15
Movement:15
Hits:3
Combat:3
Defense:2

Eager Chief
Upkeep:35
Movement:15
Hits:7
Combat:3
Defense:2
Special:Leadership

Altruist Elves
Altruist Nurse
Upkeep:10
Movement:12
Hits:2
Combat:--
Defense:1
Special:Heal

Altruist Caster
Upkeep:25
Movement:12
Hits:5
Combat:--
Defense:1
Special:Heal, Leadership, Caster

Tardy Elves
Tardy Stabber
Upkeep:7
Hits:3
Movement:9
Combat:2
Defense:2

Tardy Archer
Upkeep:9
Hits:3
Movement:9
Combat:1/1
Defense:2
Special:Ranged

Tardy Chief
Upkeep:25
Movement:9
Hits:7
Combat:2
Defense:2
Special:Leadership

Gobwins
Gobwin Stabber
Upkeep:4
Movement:9
Hits:2
Combat:2
Defense:2
Special:Tunnel Fighting

Gobwin Piker
Upkeep:6
Movement:9
Hits:2
Combat:2
Defense:2
Special:Tunnel-Fighting, Piker

Gobwin Archer
Upkeep:6
Movement:9
Hits:2
Combat:1/1
Defense:2
Special:Tunnel-Fighting, Ranged

Gobwin Chief
Upkeep:16
Movement:9
Hits:5
Combat:2
Defense:2
Special:Tunnel-Fighting, Leadership

Hobgobwins
Hobgobwin Stabber
Upkeep:12
Movement:10
Hits:4
Combat:3
Defense:2

Hobgobiwn Knight
Upkeep:18
Movement:10
Hits:5
Combat:3
Defense:3

Hobgobwin Chief
Upkeep:32
Movement:10
Hits:9
Combat:3
Defense:3
Special:Leadership

Giants
Giant
Upkeep:30
Movement:10
Hits:8
Combat:4
Defense:4
Special:Heavy

Giant Chief
Upkeep:65
Movement:10
Hits:14
Combat:5
Defense:4
Special:Heavy, Leadership


Men
Stabber
Upkeep:10
Movement:10
Hits:3
Combat:2
Defense:2

Piker
Upkeep:12
Movement:10
Hits:3
Combat:2
Defense:2
Special:Piker

Archer
Upkeep:12
Movement:10
Hits:3
Combat:2/1
Defense:2
Special:Ranged

Knight
Upkeep:20
Movement:10
Hits:4
Combat:3
Defense:2

Warlord
Upkeep:30
Movement:10
Hits:7
Combat:3
Defense:2
Special:Leadership

Caster
Upkeep:40
Movement:10
Hits:5
Combat:1
Defense:1




Some guesses and stuff

[LurkerInPlayground]

Uhh. You're going to roll probabilities for each and every hex?

Or can you actually write those instructions into a program? If not, you're better off just figuring out what seems logical and designing the map to make the game interesting.

[LurkerInPlayground]

Arkentools - leave them in, or take them out as overpowered destroyers of balance?
Tri-mancer linkups - what each might be capable of accomplishing is in question, as well as what each should be capable of doing vis-a-vis balance.
These are plot specific McGuffins. Generally, I'd say leave them out.


Also, I should point out that for most of us, it's a serious issue to gather sufficient gamer-geeks for D&D, let alone to represent every Person of Interest in an Erf-style wargame. If you're going to make something anyone will ever play, it has to allow for one person to control a side wholesale.
I was thinking of a collaborative board game type of thing. Something that might be played on GitP, where gamer-geeks are abundant.

Therefore, you get team collaboration RP.


I do have an idea as to how loyalty could be handled under these circumstances and remain a mystery, but it's a bit complex and involves 'loyalty challenges' - face-down loyalty cards, die rolls for the check and a new loyalty card after each check, and 'permanent' effects to add + or - loyalty modifiers to friends/enemies/torture victims. For example, pay the bazillion schmuckers for an iron maiden, rack and everything, and you get a better chance to affect your prisoner's loyalty (with a certain number of successful checks needed to fully turn a character)
Terrible idea. Too much extra rolling and rules referencing.

Just treat people like NPC's with varying personalities or have players roleplay them.

Erfworld implies that Loyalty is an "invisible" stat. Which suggests that it may not be as simple as scoring it as a single numeral. Nor is Loyalty immediately obvious. Wanda is perhaps a prime example of this fact.

It also kills off a lot of the interesting roleplaying aspects since it no longer becomes a question of a character's motivation or general inclination?

I'd rather come up with a quick rubric of "rules" for an NPC.

For example:
Johnny, the Level 1 Warlord
- Johnny prefers to follow his orders to the letter.
- He hates disobeying orders, even if he thinks it would directly benefit his side.
- Johnny is friendly.
- Johnny is loathe to lose his troops and values them as individuals.
- He is vocal about any plans he views as unfair to the troops and will be discontented if asked to use troops as canon fodder.
- Johnny is incorruptible. He does not like dishonesty and will not take bribes even if he thinks there would be no evident harm to his side.

And so on . . .

[Org]

Uhh. You're going to roll probabilities for each and every hex?

Or can you actually write those instructions into a program? If not, you're better off just figuring out what seems logical and designing the map to make the game interesting.

Its really fast if you think about it. It was only a suggestion from a forumgoer.

[Org]

And I think Arkentools will be in, but the mod can make them and stuff. havent thought about them much.

I am not sure about Caster Links.

Have NO IDEA about loyalty. Needs to be simple.

[LurkerInPlayground]

And I think Arkentools will be in, but the mod can make them and stuff. havent thought about them much.

I am not sure about Caster Links.

Have NO IDEA about loyalty. Needs to be simple.
As for the former, what I was suggesting is that they are plot hooks.

You weave in a narrative using those plot hooks. Attunement to the Tools are interpreted as a divine mandate to rule. The caster linkups are a kind of Chekov's Gun (i.e. the communication system set up by Stanley was one of the rare instances of brilliance on his part and Parson picked up on it) and are used to show how awesome Parson is in an Ender's Game sort of way.

It doesn't have to be Arkentools. It can be an ancient repository that allows a side that captures it to pop casters. Or a tower that leads to the heavens. Or tablet with prophecies written on it. Or a mysterious magical rift in reality. Make up whatever motivates the story.

As for Loyalty, I still like my way and I won't beat a dead horse.

[Dr. Bath]

If you want it to be a genuine tactical board-based wargame, you need to start super super simple with units, preferably without involving chance. Chance often completely ruins wargames (see: Risk). Also, the way you have it now, attackers get 2d6 defenders 1d6 means that the defenders will almost always lose. On average the attackers get a +4 bonus to hits (7 to 3), which with even a single mulitplier becomes 8. this means that a basic marbit is about even with a freaking gump if it attacks. Which is wrong in my opinion. I don't really have a better idea at the moment, but it really does seem imbalanced at the moment.

[Org]

True, but it means that Marbits are not good. At anything except for unstacked stuff or having SO MANY MULTIPLIERS.

BAck to 1d6

[Dr. Bath]

Un-led, un-stacked infantry should be bad against heavies.

Maybe a +1 or so for attacking, but the way it was you needed to be overwhelmingly more powerful just to be able to stabd a chance to defend, and if that was the case you could then obliterate the enemy when it came to your turn, meaning that whoever goes first in an even match (which in a balanced game should happen moderately often) wins straight out.

There probably needs to be a slight advantage to attacking just to discourage stalemates.

Also, an idea. Perhaps there should be ratio of kills: losses depending on the margin of victory, to avoid lucky steamrollering. e.g: You win combat-defense roll off by one, meaning that there is a 3:2 ratio of your kills to your losses then if you win by 2 it's 2:1 then 4:1 etc. up to say a margin of 5 where you take no losses. (numbers subject to change)

[Org]

...
marbits will be bad against anything.

[LurkerInPlayground]

Un-led, un-stacked infantry should be bad against heavies.

Maybe a +1 or so for attacking, but the way it was you needed to be overwhelmingly more powerful just to be able to stabd a chance to defend, and if that was the case you could then obliterate the enemy when it came to your turn, meaning that whoever goes first in an even match (which in a balanced game should happen moderately often) wins straight out.

There probably needs to be a slight advantage to attacking just to discourage stalemates.

Also, an idea. Perhaps there should be ratio of kills: losses depending on the margin of victory, to avoid lucky steamrollering. e.g: You win combat-defense roll off by one, meaning that there is a 3:2 ratio of your kills to your losses then if you win by 2 it's 2:1 then 4:1 etc. up to say a margin of 5 where you take no losses. (numbers subject to change)
Heavies should still die to infantry by attrition though and lose effectiveness as they lose units (fewer total attacks from a stack).

It's just that they should just be able to tank a few hits and do some severe damage in the process. But they should get worn to a nub if they're thrown against infantry repeatedly without a chance to heal.

[Dr. Bath]

...
marbits will be bad against anything.

No they'll be about even with other infantry, just slightly weaker (not sure why you've done that, they've always appeared to be roughly equal to Gobwins)

Using the ratio method, but extending it both ways (both above and below the opponent's score) infantry could bring down heavies by attrition.

Lets say some basic un-stacked gobwin(s) attack a Gump. Combat 2 (+1 for attacking lets say) against a Defense of 5. The Gump has just over a 50% chance of winning automatically and will on average win by 3, this makes it a 4:1 kill:hurt ratio for the gump (or a 1:4 ratio for the Gobwin). That would mean that you would need a lot of Gobwins attacking individually to kill it, but it would eventually die (maybe faster, maybe slower). And that's a lot of individual Gobwins, without a stack bonus, which is how gobwins are always going to be.

Lets say you stack up all 11 Gobwins you can afford for the cost of a gump, with a +8 stack bonus they're gonna win like every time, so obviously the system needs work, but I think it could work. I'm not exactly sure how to work the ratio in properly though, as you'll end up with really high numbers for small combats, but ones that are far too small for big combats. Could be the ratio times the number of units in the winning stack? Dunno.

[Org]

You can stack 8. Max. IIRC?

Yeah. I guess you are right.

[Org]

One sec. Gonna fix the combat

[Org]

I also changed Gobwins. They are now like Marbits.

Combat:
Okay. One eight Marbit Stabber stack attacks a Gump. In open terrain. I add their Combat together(8), and then roll one six-sided die(4). I add it together, and get a twelve. The Gump takes two hits(12/5=2.4=2). The Gump attacks back(5/5=1), and a Marbit takes one hit.(Stacking Defense(Highest Defense in Stack+1/2(Everyone Else's Defense)).Marbit's Defense would be 4.5, but I round up(I rounded down earlier because it was less then .5).

Better? It means you really have to use multipliers well. The only problem is that it is slow. Really slow. However, Gumps are heavies so I guess that is how it should be.

[Fjolnir]

The max Stack size is NOT 8, the BONUS for individual units in a stack tops out when you reach 8 units, but a stack can have as many units as you want (see the thriller fight, for example. that is one superstack of uncroacked.)

[Org]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.

[Org]

Any ideas for Casters?

[Org]

Where did you guys go?

[Dr. Bath]

Sorry, exams.

For Casters, I'm thinking it needs to be fairly simple. Obviously they have juice (a pain to keep a track of, but no side is likely to have many more than three or four casters) and I would suggest that juice is the main thing that increases as levels go up, not spells.

I think that each caster type should probably have one combat (or combat applicable) spell and one non-combat spell. Perhaps the non-combat one is either unit-production or passive.

[Org]

Hmmm...

So, do we have more than one actual spell per caster or are there only going to be two?

[loser0ll]

Well, I'd advise coming up with basic spells, just a handful for each discipline.

Then, instead of creating multiple spells/discipline, simply apply a scaling cost-power system.

Example...

---Croakamancy---
"Uncroak" - This spell turns up to 1 medium-sized corpse per Caster Level into an Uncroaked Infantry Unit. It survives for 1 round (until the end of your next turn).
Extend Duration - you may legnthen the duration the corpse will remain intact by 1 turn per Caster Level for every 2 additional points of Juice spent.
Extra Types - you may uncroak additional types of troops ; these may not be Seige or Heavy units, and retain no Natural Spell abilities except those based on Movement, such as the ability to enter Tunnels or Flight. This cost an extra 4 points of Juice.
Uncroaked Warlord - you may uncroak a fallen Warlord as an Uncroaked Warlord unit - it retains all it's abilities, including Leadership, with the except of most Natural spells. It still retains movement modes and it's Natural Thinkamancy talent allowing it to command troops under it mentally.
Uncroak Extra Units - If there are more Corpses available than the 1/Levle limit, you may instead spend a portion of your juice to increase this limit. Double the current cost of the spell to double the maximum number animated. As a special option, a Croakamancer of at least 7th level with full Juice may spend all of their Juice to animate all corpses in their Hex as Uncroaked Infantry until the end of their next turn.

[Org]

I dont like the caster level stuff. It could be very hard to keep up with having to remember all of that.

[Dr. Bath]

Yeah, seems too complicated.

For Croakamancers, how about: can raise 10 units per 2 juice. Infantry count as 1, advanced infantry 2, knights 3, fliers 10 and warlords 20.

Sadly removes the mass uncroaking, but it seems like that might be too complicated. Perhaps you can uncroak at a lower cost (say uncroak knights for 1 point per unit) but they only count as what you pay for in terms of uncroaking points. Spare points are discarded.

The passive ability can be... uncroaked units in the hex (or surrounding hexes?) decay slower. And uncroaked units led by a croakamancer can dancefight and recieve a 2x multiplier to combat.

[nerd-7i+e]

Well what you could do for Croakamancy is have the Croakamancer spend X juice, minimum Y (The specific numbers aren't important so I'll stick with variables for now) to raise Z units. Those units are then level X/Z (round down), minimum 1, and last for X/Z turns (round down), minimum 2.

I'm thinking about Y. Maybe it's dependent on the level of the highest uncroacked? Say, that level/2 (round up), minimum 1? So if you uncroak 10 units, and the most powerful one is level 7, then you must spend at least 4 juice on it. If you choose to spend 5, each uncroaked will be level 2 and will last two turns.

[Dr. Bath]

That's reasonable, but means that basic units would then have levels, which I think is maybe too complicated to keep track of. Warlords and Casters should level, sure, but keeping a tally of the level of every infantry on the board seems excessive.

[Org]

That sounds awesome.

[Org]

Wow, didnt see that post.

Maybe, but it should be easy with some programs.

[nerd-7i+e]

That, or you could just assign a generic level to all the types of non-warlord/casters. Here's one possible formula you could use:

(Movement+Combat+Defense+Hits+#positive specials-#negative specials)/8-1 rounded, minimum 1.

I don't think we have any way to figure out how many turns it takes to pop a unit. We could use this formula for that, also.

For example, take the human piker. His Movement is 10, his Hit is 3, his Combat is 2, and his Defense is 2. Adding them together, you get 17. He has the piker special, which is advantageous as it does extra damage to cavalry. So you take 18/8-1=1.5=2.

Note: This formula may seem overly complicated, but it's actually just the average of his Movement, Combat, Defense, and Hits, adding in specials (each divided by four), halving that, and subtracting one. If that helps.

Edit: What we really need to do is come up with how the spells from each disciple work. Maybe over the weekend I'll come up with something. Also, we need to determine how levels work when casting spells. My formula in my last post, for example, works just as well for a Level 1 Croakamancer as it does for a Level 946,382,715 Croakamancer. I'm thinking as a Caster's level increases, his/her Juice increases and also the Caster's level-1 is added to the effect of the spell. So any Uncroaked units that were Uncroaked by a Level 2 Croakamancer get an extra level and an extra day to live (er... die, rather) than if a Level 1 Croakamancer Uncroaked them.

[Org]

The Casters should probably start with a random(d6?) amount of Juice, to show how each are different.

[nerd-7i+e]

That's probably smart. But they should then get some Juice each time they level. If you want Caster's Juice to increase at varying rates per level, you could give them d4 Juice each level instead of the 1 or 2 I was picturing.

Actually, looking at the way I've developed the cost, it might be smarter to make starting juice d10, and then each level adds d6. That way, a lucky Caster could do an additional spell as I described above each level. A very lucky Caster. Most Casters will probably gain an additional such spell every two levels.

[Org]

Sounds good.

Now lets make some spells!
Starting with Croakamancy.

Now, we already have the one spell,but what if we make two Uncroaking Spells, where one is normal, and the other targets more units but has less turns of unlife?

[nerd-7i+e]

The way my Croakamancy spell is designed, that already happens – you can Uncroak as many units as you want, but the more you Uncroak, the weaker they are and the less time they last. Likewise, you can create one very powerful Uncroaked which will have a high level and last a while. In many ways, however, we already do have two spells: the Croakamancers can lead their Uncroaked into a dance-fight. While not a spell per se, it's a strong ability which not all Casters get.

[Org]

Oh yes. I see now. >.>

But what else should Croakmancers get?

[nerd-7i+e]

If you don't think them being able to lead Uncroaked units in a dance-fight is enough, we could give Croakamancers a spell that lets them weaken enemy Uncroaked. But it would have to be a pretty weak spell – such dance-fighting ability seems very powerful, and we don't want to make Croakamancers ridiculously powerful. Each disciple should remain roughly equal in power.

[DrakeRaids]

If you don't think them being able to lead Uncroaked units in a dance-fight is enough, we could give Croakamancers a spell that lets them weaken enemy Uncroaked. But it would have to be a pretty weak spell – such dance-fighting ability seems very powerful, and we don't want to make Croakamancers ridiculously powerful. Each disciple should remain roughly equal in power.

Why? Croakamancers seem to be one of the most valuable spellcasters to field, making them stronger then a few others might not be to off kilter. Just raise the upkeep accordingly.

[nerd-7i+e]

I'm not sure about that. Wanda is definitely very powerful, but remember what Wanda says in the third panel of the thirteenth strip (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0013.html) – Wanda does not just perform Croakamancy, and this gives us the (presumably false) impression that Croakamancy is a more valuable type of magic than, say, Dirtamancy. Wanda is very powerful, but imagine her without the:
Shockamancy, notably the big explosion that Wanda used to destroy Jilian's flying companions (archons, flying centaurs, etc.).
Findamancy, notably the spell that found Parson in the first place.
Thinkamancy, notably the spell that gave her control over Jilian.


Still pretty powerful, but this is probably largely due to her (presumably very high) level.

[LurkerInPlayground]

If you don't think them being able to lead Uncroaked units in a dance-fight is enough, we could give Croakamancers a spell that lets them weaken enemy Uncroaked. But it would have to be a pretty weak spell – such dance-fighting ability seems very powerful, and we don't want to make Croakamancers ridiculously powerful. Each disciple should remain roughly equal in power.
Meh. Mass uncroaking is only good over the course of a turn or two if you do it in large numbers. Which, admittedly, may be enough to turn the tides, since it really only takes a handful of turns to end the siege of Gobwin Knob.

Personally, I like Thinkamancy better. They get some ridiculously powerful effects like caster link-ups and more useful utilities like communication.

EDIT:
Oh snap. Turnamancers get Time Warp?!

[nerd-7i+e]

I've finally finished the spell list! (I didn't give the Turnamancers' a time-warp ability because then they'd have three spells, and I didn't have a good idea.) Can I e-mail it to someone to copy it onto this forum (it's too big and I'm too lazy to copy it myself)?

[multilis]

You can always have casters work as cards in a deck, that are drawn randomly, one caster type attack allowed per round as long as you have casters with juice left.

If 2 linked up then 1/6 random chance one is lost/goes crazy (and if you lose one then roll again for 1/6 chance to lose other).

If you have 3 casters linked up then 1/3 chance one is lost, and if lost you keep rolling on each remaining caster.

Example card: Dittomongus

If 1 caster then double attack this round.
If 2 casters then quad attack this round.
If 3 casters you wipe out entire enemy army, but lose half your own, through "endless doubling" ultra-spell.

;-)

[Org]

Send it here. To me.

[nerd-7i+e]

You can't attach documents with the forum e-mail-er (and the organization gets all messed-up if I don't attach). Give me your e-mail address and I'll send it to you. If you don't want to put it directly on the forum, Private Message me.

[Creed]

I agree that we know Wanda is insanely powerful
but, for all we know, that could just be the fact that she is a very powerful Croakamancer, not that she just is a Croakamancer.

Personally, I believe that Croakamancers ability to summon more soldiers is a definant advantage, and that they should have very few other spells, but at least one damageing spell

Casters should essentially by directly controlled as characters by the player. Each side should only really have a few casters, and the players should learn not to risk them in potentially harmful ventures. Casters should level up after each surrvived battle, and possibly a multi-class caster. When a caster levels up, there could be a few stats to distribute points to (more juice? more effective damage spells? etc.)

Just a few ideas i brewed up while trying to make this myself about a month back. you guys dont have to listen to any of this

[LurkerInPlayground]

I agree that we know Wanda is insanely powerful
but, for all we know, that could just be the fact that she is a very powerful Croakamancer, not that she just is a Croakamancer.
I think it might be explicitly mentioned that she's a master-class Croakamancer. Can't be bothered to dig up a link though.

If it's not explicitly mentioned, it's certainly implied. It's clear that Wanda was a favorite of Stanley's as he calls on her to frequently revive things (while Sizemore is put on menial tasks). It's also implied when she revives all the dead Jetstone soldiers in the entire city zone after the failed attack through the old Gobwin Knob's tunnels, which all last only one turn. (The trade-off being that you can have longer-lasting undead at the cost of having fewer of them.)

[GM.Casper]

Considering the comlexity of Erfworld, a computer game would be the way to go. Maybe Battle for Wesnoth (http://www.wesnoth.org/) could be moded for it?

[nerd-7i+e]

Okay, I finally got around to putting up a list of spells. How do you like it? Any reference to the mysterious variable "L" is actually a reference to the caster's level.


Hocus Pocus:

Findamancy:

Seek:

Description: Tells the Location of a certain item, person, or city.
Cost: Base cost is 3-L. Can be modified by what you are seeking for:

Find terrain type: +0
Find side: +1
Find city: +2
Find unit type: +3
Find unit: +4
Find item: 5

And by how specific you want the information to be:

Find hex with a 1 hex margin of error: +0
Find hex: +1
Find general location within hex: +2
Find stack: +3
Find general location within stack: +4
Find exact coordinates: +5

Effective cost has a minimum of 1.
Range: Infinite. Can be applied to all existence for an additional +5

Retrieve:

Description: Retrieves an item or person X hexes away. The exact coordinates must be known.
Cost: (X-L+1)/2, minimum 1.
Range: Infinite.
Specifics: If retrieving something from another plane, replace (your distance from the closest border of the map)+50.



Predictamancy:

Destiny:

Description: Supplies the caster with one key event in the target's life. Does not go into specifics.
Cost: 5-(L-1)/2, minimum 1.
Range: 1 stack
Specifics: A caster of Level 15+ steadily gains specifics as s/he increases level, at the Game Moderator's discretion.


Timeline:

Description: Supplies the date for one specified event.
Cost: 10-(L-1)/2, minimum 2.
Range: Infinite.



Mathamancy:

Probability:

Description:Gives the chances of a battle ending a certain way.
Cost: 2V-L+1, minimum 1.
Range: Infinite.
Specifics: V is the number of known variables. The higher V is, the more reliable the prediction is.


Sophisticated Prediction:

Description: Gives the chances of some obscure detail or event being fulfilled.
Cost: 5X-(L-1)/2, minimum 1.
Range: Infinite.
Specifics: X is a number, ranging from 1 to 10, of how obscure the prediction is. The Game Moderator reserves the right to increase X beyond 10 in the event of a ridiculously obscure detail (e.g. "What color will Ansom's armor be?").




Spookism:

Turnamancy:

Improve Production:

Description: Decreases the number of turns it takes to pop a unit.
Cost: X/2-2(L-1), minimum 1.
Range: The caster's side.
Specifics: Increases the efficiency of unit production by 2X%.


Turn Other:

Description: Makes it more likely that someone will turn.
Cost: X.
Range: The caster's field of vision.
Specifics: Increases the chance of the target turning by (2X+L-1)%.



Dollamancy:

Animate:

Description: Creates various types of golems.
Cost:

Animated clothes: 5
Carpet: 10
Scarecrow: 20
Doll: 30
Moll: 40
Cloth golem: 50
Silk serpent: 60
Turn clothes: 100

Range: 1 stack.
Specifics:

Animated clothes: Level 6+L
Carpet: Level 7+L, flies, mount
Scarecrow: Level 8+L, +1 damage to flying units
Doll: Level 9+L
Moll: Level 10+L
Cloth golem: Level 14+L
Silk serpent: Level 19+L, ranged
Turn clothes: Level 99+L, enemies' clothes attack the wearers, decreases enemies' Defense and Move to 1



Fabricate:

Description: Creates non-magical items
Cost:

Non-combat items (e.g. picnic basket): 1
Economic items (e.g. coin): 2
Basic weapons (e.g. wooden club): 3
Basic armor (e.g. leather armor): 4
Normal weapons (e.g. bow): 5
Normal armor (e.g. iron chainmail): 6
Respectable artwork: 7
Basic siege (e.g. ballista): 8
Advanced weapons (e.g. crossbow): 9
Advanced armor (e.g. steel plate): 10
Normal siege (e.g. catapult): 11
Heroic weapons (e.g. adamantine sword): 12
Heroic armor (e.g. adamantine armor): 13
Advanced siege (e.g. siege tower): 14
Artistic masterpiece: 15
Heroic siege (e.g. a catapult with explosive projectiles): 16

Range: 1 stack.



Weirdomancy:

Speed:

Description: Increases X targets' speed.
Cost: 2XY.
Range: 1 stack.
Specifics: Targets' speed becomes L-1+YM (M being the target's original Movement). This gives a +L-1+M(Y-1) to the target's Combat and Defense.


Wormhole:

Description: Teleports the target.
Cost:

Short-range teleport ("walk through walls"): 15
Interhexagonal teleport: 20
X hexes away (random location within hex): 15(X-L+1)
Specific coordinates X hexes away: 20(X-L+1)

Range: 1 stack




Stuffamancy:

Dirtamancy:

Golem:

Description: Creates various types of golems.
Cost:

Crap golem: 5
Soft rock golem: 10
Hard rock golem: 20
Acid rock golem: 30
Metal golem: 40
Gem golem: 50
Artifact golem: 60
Terrain golem: 100

Range: 1 stack
Specifics:
Crap golem: Level 6+L, does 2d4+L-1 damage when detonated.
Soft rock golem: Level 7+L, does 2d6+L-1 damage when detonated.
Hard rock golem: Level 7+L-1, does 2d8+L-1 damage when detonated.
Metal golem: Level 10+L, does does 2d12+L-1 damage when detonated.
Gem golem: Level 14+L, does does 2d20+L-1 damage when detonated, redirects shockamancy.
Artifact golem: Level 19+L, does does 10d20+L-1 damage when detonated, dampens enemy magic by creator's level and increases friendly magic by creator's level, is a caster.
Terrain golem: Level 99+L, does does 100d100+L-1 damage to all connected hexes of that terrain when detonated, immobile.



Tunnel:

Description: Alters a tunnel system.
Cost:

Create connecting tunnel: 3-L, minimum 1
Set basic trap (3d4 damage): 4-L, minimum 1
Create minor tunnel: 5-L, minimum 1
Close entrance/exit: 6-:, minimum 1
Set average trap (3d8 damage): 7-L, minimum 1
Create entrance/exit: 8-L, minimum 1
Create main tunnel: 9-L, minimum 1
Set advanced trap (3d12 damage): 10-L, minimum 1
Collapse (3d12 damage, ignore defense): 11-L, minimum 1
Alter course: 16-L, minimum 1

Range: The caster must be in the target tunnel system



Changemancy:

Set destiny:

Description: The target unit or object will end up in a specified location. Eventually.
Cost:

A specific terrain: 5
X hexes away: 2X-L+1, minimum 5
A general area within a hex X hexes away: 2X-L+2, minimum 5
A specific location within a hex X hexes away: 2X-L+3, minimum 5

Range: The caster's field of vision.


Provide special:

Description: Provides the target X units with specials for one turn.
Cost:

Dance-fight: 20X
Forest capable: 5X
Flight: 20X
Tunnel fighting: 5X
Mountain-capable: 5X
Water-capable: 5X
Dive capable: 5X
Mount: 10X
Caster: 30X
Piker: 10X
Archery: 10X
Mining: 5X
Breath weapon: 20X
Leadership: 20X
Light (undoes Heavy): 5X
Luck (undoes Luckless): 10X

Range: 1 stack.



Dittomancy:

Multiply Power:

Description: Multiplies a stack's units' Attack or Leadership bonus by X.
Cost: 4X-L+1, minimum 1.
Range: 1 stack.


Copy:

Description: Creates an exact copy of an item.
Description: Creates an exact copy of an item.
Cost:

Minuscule object (e.g. a coin): 2
Small object (e.g. a basket): 3
Medium basic object (e.g. a wooden club): 4
Medium advanced object (e.g. a sword): 5
Large basic object (e.g. a human-sized rock): 6
Large advanced object (e.g. a cage): 7
Huge basic object (e.g. a large statue): 8
Huge advanced object (e.g. a catapult): 9
Giant basic object (e.g. a tree): 10
Giant advanced object (e.g. a small building): 11
Enormous basic object (e.g. a life-sized model of a dwagon): 12
Enormous advanced object (e.g. a siege tower): 13
Basic urban object (e.g. a tower): 14
Basic royal object (e.g. a castle): 15
Advanced urban object (e.g. a non-capital city): 20
Advanced royal object (e.g. a capital city): 25
Hex: 40

Range: The caster's field of vision.
Specifics: Items are by default non-magical. To retain basic magic (e.g. a carpet), add a +10 to cost. To retain advanced magic (e.g. a spell, add +25. To retain titanic magic (e.g. an Arkentool), add +100.




Eyemancy:

Lookamancy:

Clairvoyance:

Description: Allows the Lookamancer to see X hexes away.
Cost: X-L+1, minimum 1. Cost can be increased based on the level of information:

Terrain: +0
Stacks: +1
Units: +2
Statistics: +3

Range: Infinite


Hide:

Descriptions: Makes it harder for another side to use Clairvoyance on the target hex.
Cost: Y.
Range: The caster's hex.
Specifics: Increases the cost of Clairvoyance by Y+L-1.



Thinkamancy:

Mind blast:

Description: Hits an enemy of level X.
Cost: X+2Y.
Range: The caster's field of vision.
Specifics: Does Yd4+L-1 damage. Ignores Defense.


Mindshare:

Description: Allows the subjects to communicate, control, and/or share specials
Cost:

For communication: 2-(L-1)/2, minimum 1
To share specials: (5 per special per stack)-L+1
Suggest: 10-(L-1)/2, minimum 1
Two-caster link-up: 40
Three-caster link-up: 60

Range:

For communication: L hexes
To share specials: The caster's hex
For a link-up: 1 stack

Specifics: When casting for communication, a caster can cast to a target beyond L hexes, at an additional Juice cost per extra hex. This penalty is removed if the Thinkamancer knows the terrain type of the target's hex and all surrounding hexes or if the caster is communicating with someone from the same Side.



Foolamancy:

Illusion:

Description: Creates an Illusion X cubic yards in size moving at Y yards per second.
Cost: X/4+Y/2-L+1, minimum 1.
Range: The foolamancer's field of vision.


Veil:

Description: Makes X objects appear to be something else of similar dimensions.
Cost: X-L+1, minimum 1.
Range: 1 stack.




Hippiemancy:

Flower Power:

Peace:

Description: Decreases the chance of war.
Cost: X.
Range: Infinite.
Specifics: Affects one side. Makes that side (2X+L-1)% more reluctant to go to war (NOW, WITH 30% MORE RELUCTANCE! BUY NOW, WHILE THIS SPELL SITLL LASTS!)


Floral Growth:

Description: Creates flowers.
Cost:

Pretty flowers: 2
Thick flowers (-1 Movement): 5
Pollen rain (causes hay fever: -1 Combat, -1 Defense, -1 Movement for enemies; +1 Combat, +1 Defense, +1 Movement for golems): 7
Entangling flowers (-2 Movement): 10
Poisonous flowers (1 damage, -1 Combat, -1 Defense, -1 Movement): 15
Master garden: 17
Natural wall (-5 Movement): 20
Hypnogogic flower (sets Movement to 0): 30

Range: L-1 hexes.



Signamancy:

Send Sign: Sends a message into a person's mind or into real space as can be expressed through signs. Functions exactly like a thinkagram or Illusion, respectively.

Interpret Sign:

Description: Supplies the caster with a description for the target's state of being as can be expressed in symbols.
Cost: 5-(L-1)/2, minimum 1.
Range: 1 stack.
Specifics: A caster of Level 15+ steadily sees more specific symbols as s/he increases level, at the Game Moderator's discretion.



Date-a-mancy

Change relationship:

Description: Alters a relationship between two people.
Cost: 4(X-L+1) (X being the amount of levels you want the relationship to change by), minimum 1.
Range: The caster's field of vision.
Specifics: Only changes one member's viewpoint. The levels of relationship are:

Nemesis
Loath
Hate
Contempt
Dislike
Annoyance
Neutral
Enjoyable
Like
Respect
Affection
Love
Worship



Discern relationship:

Description: Gives out one bit of information about two people
Cost: 3X (X being the number of bits of information you want to learn).
Range: The caster's field of vision.




Naughtymancy:

Shockamancy:

Magical Attack:

Description: Does X damage to Y stacks.
Cost: (X-L+1)Y, minimum 1.
Range: Y stacks.


Stun:

Description: Prevents a target unit from moving, attacking, or defending for X+L-1 turns.
Cost: 8X^2.
Range: 1 stack.



Croakamancy:

Uncroak:

Description: Raises Z units.
Cost: X, minimum Y (half the highest level of the units intended to be Uncroaked, minimum 1).
Range: The caster's hex.
Specifics: Uncroaked units are level (X/Z)+L-1, minimum 1, and last (X/Z)+L-1 turns, minimum 2.


Thriller:

Description: Uncroaked units in a Croakamancer's stack of X units can dance-fight.
Cost: (10X-L+1)/2, minimum 1.
Range: Same stack.
Specifics: Only works if the stack contains only Uncroaked and the Croakamancer that Uncroaked these Uncroaked.



Retconjuration: Cannot be used by mortals.


Stagemancy:

Hat Magic:

Teleport:

Description: Teleports an object that had been X hexes away into a hat.
Cost: X-L+1.
Range: X hexes.


Helm:

Description: Hardens the X targets' hair/hat(s)/helm(s), multiplying their Defense by Y+L-1.
Cost: 2XY.
Range: 1 stack.



Carnymancy:

Inspire incompetence:

Description: Decrease either the subject's Leadership or Movement by X+L-1.
Cost: X.
Range: 1 stack.


Miss:

Description: Decreases the target stack's Combat by X+L-1.
Cost: X+2
Range: 1 stack.



Rhyme-o-mancy: No ideas.


Clevermancy:

Luckamancy:

Good luck:

Description: Increases all friendly probabilities in a round by (X+L-1)%. Decreases all hostile probabilities by (X+L-1)%.
Cost: X.
Range: 1 stack.


Maximize damage:

Description: All units in X stacks of Y do the maximum possible damage – if they hit.
Cost: XY.
Range: 1 stack.



Healomancy:

Heal:

Description: Returns X Health to Y units. Cannot make a unit's Health higher than its maximum.
Cost: XY.
Range: The caster's field of vision.


Rejuvenate:

Description: Decreases the target stack's Move and Combat by X+L-3.
Cost: X
Range: 1 stack.



Moneymancy:

Convert:

Description: Converts shmuckers into tangible gems.
Cost: 0.
Range: The side requesting the conversion.


Hire:

Description: Pay shmuckers to gain units (which normally take X turns to pop) immediately.
Cost: X.
Range: The side requesting the hiring.
Specifics: Costs 100*X-10*L shmuckers, minimum 10.