Not for rogues.

[Teutonic Knight]

I am making a lawful prestige class based around truth. So far so good, but the problem is rogues (or maybe it's my PrC?). I have tried to make the class available to everyone, from fighters to wizard, with any lawful, a low skill requirement and one feat. Rogues can easily breeze through my prerequisites and I was wondering if the requirement "Special: Can not have Sneak Attack (or similar ability i.e. death attack, sudden strike, skirmish etc.) class feature." is a good idea.

Anyone?

[DragoonWraith]

I'd say check out the Knight class in PHB2. The Knight's Code is probably close to what you want, and should effectively keep out Rogues.

[Teutonic Knight]

I'd say check out the Knight class in PHB2. The Knight's Code is probably close to what you want, and should effectively keep out Rogues.

I see what you mean but how will a class feature prevent rogues from meeting the requirements for the class?

[BRC]

Why do you hate Rogues? A rogue is not necessarily deceptive. A Rogue could be a detective who uses his wide variety of skills to hunt down criminals, and who, when cornered, is good at fighting smart. Every rogue isn't a lying, cheating, sociopathic kleptomaniac.

[Temotei]

Hmm...if you try and keep out rogues, it'll be hard not to keep out rangers, scouts, etc.

[Debihuman]

Under Prerequisites:
Special: May not be a rogue or ever have been a rogue in the past.

EX Class Member: Becoming a rogue causes you to lose all special abilities in this class and you cannot gain new levels as a member of this class.


Debby

[jiriku]

I see what you mean but how will a class feature prevent rogues from meeting the requirements for the class?

By creating a set of behavior requirements that thieves and cutthroats will find unattractive. Think of it as a "soft" barrier rather than a "hard" barrier. If you want a hard barrier, Debi's suggestion gets the job done.

[Teutonic Knight]

Why do you hate Rogues? A rogue is not necessarily deceptive. A Rogue could be a detective who uses his wide variety of skills to hunt down criminals, and who, when cornered, is good at fighting smart. Every rogue isn't a lying, cheating, sociopathic kleptomaniac.
Not hate, just don't want rogues to qualify for the class easier than say, a cleric, is all.

[Tavar]

Not hate, just don't want rogues to qualify for the class easier than say, a cleric, is all.
Well, what are the requirements so far?

[Flickerdart]

Pick skills that aren't class skills for Rogues, make BAB requirements, make feat requirements. Rogues don't get any more feats than your average Joe Cleric.

[deuxhero]

I'd explain how a rogue is no less lawful than anything else, but the alignment system is messed up enough already.

[Teutonic Knight]

Well, what are the requirements so far?

Alignment: Any lawful.
Skills: Gather Information 4 ranks, Intimidate 2 ranks, Search 4 ranks, Sense Motive 4 ranks.
Feats: Investigator.

low ranks so that even fighters can reach the class by 8th level

[Zaydos]

Alignment: Any lawful.
Skills: Gather Information 4 ranks, Intimidate 2 ranks, Search 4 ranks, Sense Motive 4 ranks.
Feats: Investigator.

low ranks so that even fighters can reach the class by 8th level

Human Fighters with 12+ Int can after 5th which is what I assume you meant. You could require BAB +3, then wizards couldn't get in till after 6th and rogues can't until after 4th. Course a Thug (variant fighter) from UA might be able to at 4th still but I'm guessing those aren't allowed anyway or they'd be a problem too.

[Teutonic Knight]

Human Fighters with 12+ Int can after 5th which is what I assume you meant. You could require BAB +3, then wizards couldn't get in till after 6th and rogues can't until after 4th. Course a Thug (variant fighter) from UA might be able to at 4th still but I'm guessing those aren't allowed anyway or they'd be a problem too.

all of those skills are cross-class for fighter; how could they ever get them at 5th lvl? max cross-class is half your level

[Reinboom]

Minimum Level requirements are what you make of them.
It might be easier to just outright state "Must be character level 8th". This isn't even unprecedented (see the Legacy Champion).

[Eloel]

all of those skills are cross-class for fighter; how could they ever get them at 5th lvl? max cross-class is half your level

Max cross-class is half (your level+3)


Also, I'd not make it restricted - if a rogue wants to qualify for a truth-seeking class, let them. Just enforce roleplaying requirements on them. (isn't roleplaying the reason you don't want rogues anyway?)

[Teutonic Knight]

Human Fighters with 12+ Int can after 5th which is what I assume you meant. You could require BAB +3, then wizards couldn't get in till after 6th and rogues can't until after 4th. Course a Thug (variant fighter) from UA might be able to at 4th still but I'm guessing those aren't allowed anyway or they'd be a problem too.

Max cross-class is half (your level+3)


Also, I'd not make it restricted - if a rogue wants to qualify for a truth-seeking class, let them. Just enforce roleplaying requirements on them. (isn't roleplaying the reason you don't want rogues anyway?)

Sorry; you're right Zaydos. 5th level for 4 ranks in cross-class skills is correct.

So I just changed the requirements to 5 ranks, so any most anyone can reach the class at 7th-level. (7+3)/2=5 right?

Again I just need a way for rogues to not make the requirements at 2nd level while still making it fair for every other class. So far including a non-rogue skill in the list and making a BAB requirement have been mentioned.

[Eloel]

Sorry; you're right Zaydos. 5th level for 4 ranks in cross-class skills is correct.

So I just changed the requirements to 5 ranks, so any most anyone can reach the class at 7th-level. (7+3)/2=5 right?

Again I just need a way for rogues to not make the requirements at 2nd level while still making it fair for every other class. So far including a non-rogue skill in the list and making a BAB requirement have been mentioned.

You could also go;

Feats X and Y and Z (for Fighter)
or
Ability to cast 3rd level spells
or
Special Mount
or
Wholeness of Body
or
Swift Tracker
or
8 ranks in skills X and Y and Z

You may have to increase the amount of requirements for every extra source you're using, but c'est la vie.

[Jane_Smith]

Just say +5 base attack bonus or higher required... that way the fighters, paladins, barbarians, and rangers will be the first peeps available for this class, with clerics, monks, rogues, etc in second, and casters/etc in third. Just like you want. :smallsigh: No reason to make it so complicated. :P

[Temotei]

Able Learner can get you the class even earlier. If you don't want that, I'd say bring in a BAB requirement.

[Teutonic Knight]

Then BAB it shall be. Thanks everyone for their help.

[Eloel]

Then BAB it shall be. Thanks everyone for their help.

Actually, if you want clerics and stuff to join too, just have a 2-way requirement.
5 BAB or 3rd level spells.

Everyone's happy :)

[TabletopNuke]

Under Prerequisites:
Special: May not be a rogue or ever have been a rogue in the past.

EX Class Member: Becoming a rogue causes you to lose all special abilities in this class and you cannot gain new levels as a member of this class.


Debby

{Scrubbed}

[Rainbownaga]

"8 ranks in any other skill" also works