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View Full Version : New Spell (3.5) The End of Time



Drolyt
2010-01-12, 02:47 PM
Final Sanction
Universal
Level: Sor/Wiz 9
Components: V, S, XP, F
Casting Time: 1 Day
Range: Infinite, Even Across Planes
Targets: 1 Creature or object/level; see text
Duration:Instantaneous; see text
Saving Throw: Yes (Will Negates); see text
Spell Resistance:Yes
You remove the target from time itself, erasing their personal history so that it is as if they never were. In spite of a nail history changes so that everything in the multiverse is the same except for those creatures existence; not even the gods remember them, and they can never be resurrected or revived by any means (indeed, barring extraordinary circumstances nobody will remember them anyways). However, if you use this spell on a deity or extraordinarily powerful artifact it causes not only the deity but their divine essence and their entire portfolio to be wiped out, altering the nature of the universe itself, though no one (not even the caster) will remember that there was a previous universe; the original purpose of the spell was to undo all of creation by removing all the major deities from time. Finally, any number of willing participants including the caster may remove themselves from time as well, but unlike other subjects of the spell they still exist, creatures of pure consciousness, free of cause and effect. Note: This spell cannot be used as a spell-like ability or a supernatural ability, nor is there any way to use this spell without the focus; the focus is not simply a way to channel your power, but to augment it.
Focus: The Key to Time, a powerful artifact that gives the user control over time itself.
XP Cost: 5,000 XP.

Eloel
2010-01-12, 02:51 PM
I was under the 'WTF' spell till I saw the Focus. Looks nice.

Gamerlord
2010-01-12, 02:54 PM
Wow...just...wow...

Drolyt
2010-01-12, 03:24 PM
The Key to Time (Major Artifact)
The origin of this extraordinarily powerful artifact is shrouded in mystery. Some say that it was created by the great Archmage Rassilon, while others say the Demon King Omega forged it from the primordial chaos. Still others ascribe to an ancient entity known as The Other, and others yet to a being beyond the god's themselves known as the White Guardian. Finally some maintain that it took all the deities of old working together to create this supremely powerful artifact. No one knows for sure what it looks like, but legend has it that it is split into seven parts scattered throughout the multiverse. Only when these pieces are brought together are the artifacts true powers revealed. The Wielder of The Key to Time can use the following spell like abilities 3/day each: Dimensional Lock, Imprisonment, Foresight, Greater Teleport, Haste, Slow, Time Stop, Temporal Stasis, Vision, Wish. Unlike most magic items, the power of these abilities is based on the user. The caster level is equal to their character level, and the save DC for all effects is: 10 + 1/2 Character Level + Charisma Modifier. A spell cannot be cast if the effective caster level would not be enough to cast it. Finally, the Key's true power is in it's use in certain powerful spells and rituals that require the ability to manipulate time.

TabletopNuke
2010-01-12, 04:54 PM
Using an artifact as a spell focus to create incredibly powerful effects is a great idea!

If I were you, I'd move the Key of Time's entry up to the top post, to make it easier to find. Also, you should probably italicize the "Focus:", so that it's easier to spot. A space between that and the main spell description might be a good idea too.

Yakk
2010-01-12, 06:03 PM
I think the spell would be much more amusing if the range was "touch".

It would make using it .. more visceral.

Drolyt
2010-01-12, 06:11 PM
De-mat Gun
Universal
Level: Sor/Wiz 7
Components: V, S, F
Casting Time: 1 Round
Range: 100'
Target: 1 Creature or object
Duration:Instantaneous; see text
Saving Throw: Yes (Will Negates)
Spell Resistance:Yes
This spell eliminates the target from time completely if it fails its save. Reality reshapes itself so that everything else is the same, but the target never existed. Not even the caster remembers the target, though he remembers that he cast this spell on someone. The target cannot be restored, not even by divine intervention. Note: This spell cannot be used as a spell-like ability or a supernatural ability, nor is there any way to use this spell without the focus; the focus is not simply a way to channel your power, but to augment it.
Focus:At least one piece of the Key to Time.

Myou
2010-01-12, 06:33 PM
Why make an artifact required to cast a spell? Just make it a fuction of the artifact, because the spell would intantly break the game and the only control is the requirement of the artifact, so since you can never afford to let anyone have it, the requirement of spellcasting is just needless complication.

It's basically just a big plot device, and they don't need mechanics that elaborate.

Drolyt
2010-01-12, 06:44 PM
The Moment
Universal
Level: Sor/Wiz 9
Components: V, S, F
Casting Time: 1 Swift Action
Range: Infinite, Even Across Planes; see text
Targets: see text
Duration:Instantaneous; see text
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No
The spell of last resort, The Moment is only used when the Multiverse itself is threatened. You create a new dimension, completely cut off and inaccessible from this Multiverse as soon as the spell is complete; the new dimension is actually simply a potential dimension taking shape. As you do so you draw as many creatures as you wish into the new dimension, cutting them off completely from the Multiverse. There is no save or spell resistance; you are not targeting any creatures; the Multiverse itself is reshaped around them. This new dimension is exactly like the Multiverse, save that the only creatures inhabiting it are the creatures you draw in with this spell. As soon as the spell is cast the caster is removed from the time and space of both dimensions, forced to wander forever in the void between dimensions, a place with no time or space, no up or down, no yesterday or tomorrow, where time itself has no meaning. Note: This spell cannot be used as a spell-like ability or a supernatural ability, nor is there any way to use this spell without the focus; the focus is not simply a way to channel your power, but to augment it.
Focus: The Key to Time, a powerful artifact that gives the user control over time itself. The Key remains behind when the spell is cast.

Drolyt
2010-01-12, 06:46 PM
Why make an artifact required to cast a spell? Just make it a fuction of the artifact, because the spell would intantly break the game and the only control is the requirement of the artifact, so since you can never afford to let anyone have it, the requirement of spellcasting is just needless complication.

It's basically just a big plot device, and they don't need mechanics that elaborate.

There will be other spells that require it, or a piece of it. Also people can have it if they want, they just need the Artifact. It also means people can have the artifact and it's lesser (though still pretty broken) abilities without being able to ruin the game with these overpowered ones.

Also who recognizes the source for these ideas?

Glimbur
2010-01-12, 07:36 PM
Say I've got a wizard with levels in Archmage. I take Final Sanction as a spell known. I then take it as a spell like ability using the Archmage ability, which does not require a focus. This may be contrary to your purpose, and is not the only way to side-step your balancing factor to this spell.

The simplest way to fix this would be a clause in the spell that states it cannot be used as a spell-like or supernatual ability, only cast as a spell.

Thrice Dead Cat
2010-01-12, 07:39 PM
Side-note: There is a very similar spell in Tome of Magic (which sadly uses True Naming as apart of its casting) that does the same thing, except that the original caster or someone else (maybe) can "rename" the erased individual, causing them to return to existence.

Drolyt
2010-01-12, 07:48 PM
Say I've got a wizard with levels in Archmage. I take Final Sanction as a spell known. I then take it as a spell like ability using the Archmage ability, which does not require a focus. This may be contrary to your purpose, and is not the only way to side-step your balancing factor to this spell.

The simplest way to fix this would be a clause in the spell that states it cannot be used as a spell-like or supernatual ability, only cast as a spell.

Fixed.

Side-note: There is a very similar spell in Tome of Magic (which sadly uses True Naming as apart of its casting) that does the same thing, except that the original caster or someone else (maybe) can "rename" the erased individual, causing them to return to existence.
I'll check it out, but I never liked that supplement. Also all these abilities are potentially reversible (just like what they are based on) I just don't want any mechanics for that. It should be campaign specific.

Thrice Dead Cat
2010-01-12, 07:53 PM
I'll check it out, but I never liked that supplement. Also all these abilities are potentially reversible (just like what they are based on) I just don't want any mechanics for that. It should be campaign specific.

To be fair, Tome of Magic consists of Binding, Shadowmagic, and really interesting true naming fluff. Considering the third set of "mechanics" is generally a bad idea. However, the spell should be easy to use sans said crunch. There may or may not have been a True naming check involved with it originally. Considering the level and effect of the spell, just drop it and call it a day: you're already homebrewing, anyhow.

Hyooz
2010-01-12, 07:58 PM
Just make stuff this powerful inherent abilities of the Key of Time. Spells have too many ways to be abused, and if you can't cast it without the Key anyway, why not?

But really, if these spells are for players (in which case: Yikes) just make them a part of the Key. That's easier to control than spells. If these are for the BBEG, don't bother homebrewing spells. Just have him DO these things. If your players ask why or how, make something up. Say its a specifically researched ritual finalized with those specific words and motions the secrets of which died with the BBEG.

If this is just for fun, well, don't I look like a stick in the mud.

Drolyt
2010-01-12, 08:01 PM
To be fair, Tome of Magic consists of Binding, Shadowmagic, and really interesting true naming fluff. Considering the third set of "mechanics" is generally a bad idea. However, the spell should be easy to use sans said crunch. There may or may not have been a True naming check involved with it originally. Considering the level and effect of the spell, just drop it and call it a day: you're already homebrewing, anyhow.

Alright I looked it up. It's kinda like my De-Mat Gun in that it targets only one creature. Basically instead of an artifact you need someone's true name, which I assume would be hard to get. Beyond that the spell is pretty powerful, it's not a death effect so most creatures that would normally be immune to insta-kills are screwed. It is however easier to bring someone back that has been unnamed than someone who has been erased from time so that they never existed in the first place.

Lapak
2010-01-12, 08:06 PM
Also who recognizes the source for these ideas?Well, that at least is straightforward enough. If the name weren't enough, and the artifact weren't enough, Rassilon and the Guardians peg this as Dr. Who.

That said, it makes more sense to stat these as powers inherent to the artifact or rituals triggered by the artifact rather than regular spells to me.

Drolyt
2010-01-12, 08:12 PM
Just make stuff this powerful inherent abilities of the Key of Time. Spells have too many ways to be abused, and if you can't cast it without the Key anyway, why not?

But really, if these spells are for players (in which case: Yikes) just make them a part of the Key. That's easier to control than spells. If these are for the BBEG, don't bother homebrewing spells. Just have him DO these things. If your players ask why or how, make something up. Say its a specifically researched ritual finalized with those specific words and motions the secrets of which died with the BBEG.

If this is just for fun, well, don't I look like a stick in the mud.

I'll be honest here. I wrote the spell first, then thought "huh, this is way too freaking powerful even with the XP cost, and even if the ascend to beings of pure consciousness thing was made mandatory, as I first intended". So I added the Key to Time, which is from the same media as the Final Sanction (though in fact the Key to Time has nothing to do with the Final Sanction so far as I know, although The Key of Rassilon was required for The Moment, which in the source worked like the De-Mat Gun cast on two whole civilizations; also the Final Sanction spell isn't really what the Final Sanction was either, so yeah) So yeah, it was just for fun, though it would be pretty cool for the big bad. Or for a player, if anyone wanted that. The main reason I don't want to make it part of the Key's powers is that I don't want just anyone who possesses the Key to be able to do it, they should have to research a ritual that requires a significant amount of personal power.

Well, that at least is straightforward enough. If the name weren't enough, and the artifact weren't enough, Rassilon and the Guardians peg this as Dr. Who.

That said, it makes more sense to stat these as powers inherent to the artifact or rituals triggered by the artifact rather than regular spells to me.
Maybe I will make the spells into rituals of some sort. I just don't want anyone with the Key to be able to do it. The key is already super powerful, probably too much even for an artifact.
Edit: Also you win. Do you want a cookie or phenomenal cosmic power?

Anonymouswizard
2010-01-13, 04:43 AM
The Time Lords should never of had this ability, so add this clause to all Time Lord races:

Watchers, not fighters
Time lords are unable to engage in physical combat or cast spells that directly effect creatures. They are still able to cast other spells and use other abilities.

And a new feat.

The Doctor
Benefit: you can ignore the Watchers, not fighters restriction of the Time Lords.

Random_person
2010-01-13, 05:12 AM
So essentially all Time Lord adventurers get a 1-feat feat tax? Niiiiiiiice.

Drolyt
2010-01-13, 06:09 AM
The Time Lords should never of had this ability, so add this clause to all Time Lord races:

Watchers, not fighters
Time lords are unable to engage in physical combat or cast spells that directly effect creatures. They are still able to cast other spells and use other abilities.

And a new feat.

The Doctor
Benefit: you can ignore the Watchers, not fighters restriction of the Time Lords.

Reasonable enough, but that really is a roleplaying thing. Also maybe I should make a Time Lord race...

Chrono22
2010-01-13, 06:12 AM
In a nontimelord centric game, this could be a good explanation for the Leshay... and how their civilization ceased to ever exist.

Lapak
2010-01-13, 07:56 AM
The Time Lords should never of had this ability, so add this clause to all Time Lord races:

Watchers, not fighters
Time lords are unable to engage in physical combat or cast spells that directly effect creatures. They are still able to cast other spells and use other abilities.

And a new feat.

The Doctor
Benefit: you can ignore the Watchers, not fighters restriction of the Time Lords.Given WHY the Doctor ended up using this power, the feat seems a little off. Unless you assume every Time Lord in existence took the The Doctor (or, more appropriately, The Master) feat.

Drolyt
2010-01-13, 08:04 AM
In a nontimelord centric game, this could be a good explanation for the Leshay... and how their civilization ceased to ever exist.

That would be cool, but who got rid of them them then... Anyways I've decided to make a whole set of Dr. Who themed stuff, like Time Lords, Daleks, etc. Has anyone done this before (they must have).

dsmiles
2010-01-13, 08:15 AM
So, um...balefire much?

Drolyt
2010-01-13, 08:29 AM
So, um...balefire much?

Similar, yes. But in this case the universe itself is rewritten so that they never exist, so that nobody remembers them, not even the caster or the gods (the casting of the spell itself is only a vague memory memory unless a target survives).

Debihuman
2010-01-13, 08:35 AM
So if you are basing this on Dr. Who, the Key of Time should have six parts, not seven. Otherwise it just reminds me too much of the Rod of Seven Parts.

Debby

dsmiles
2010-01-13, 08:36 AM
These could be extremely dangerous spells, with similar consequences to balefire. *shudder*

Hundreds, maybe thousands, of people could live or die based on who you burn out of the pattern, as all of the actions they ever took never happened! *shudder*

Debihuman
2010-01-13, 09:40 AM
Hundreds, maybe thousands, of people could live or die based on who you burn out of the pattern, as all of the actions they ever took never happened! *shudder*

Maybe, or maybe not. Just because one person is burned out of the pattern that doesn't mean there isn't room for someone else or several others to pick up that slot. If hero X had never existed, then hero Y might have come along. Of course, that assumes the universe is rather self-correcting, which I'll agree it doesn't have to be.

I think we've all seen It's A Wonderful Life in which the tragedy of George Bailey wishing he'd never been born has dire consequences for almost everyone around him. But that doesn't have to be the case. People die, but people die regardless -- from age, from illness, from accident. It is just a matter of when and how. Save a village only to have it burn to the ground a year later. Morbidity aside, that doesn't mean that only bad things would happen. Good things could happen that might not have happened either. Perhaps a major villain would have had a change of heart had it not been for the meddling adventurers....

Not all consequences are absolutely linear either.

Debby

Drolyt
2010-01-13, 09:41 AM
So if you are basing this on Dr. Who, the Key of Time should have six parts, not seven. Otherwise it just reminds me too much of the Rod of Seven Parts.

Debby

My mistake. I'll fix it.

Anonymouswizard
2010-01-13, 09:47 AM
Given WHY the Doctor ended up using this power, the feat seems a little off. Unless you assume every Time Lord in existence took the The Doctor (or, more appropriately, The Master) feat.

Yes, the doctor did not like sitting around. I also believe the reason he was banished to earth was because the Time Lords found him (he was "interfering"), although before the new series the Time Lords were the most powerful race in the universe, but took an oath onyl to watch. The new version of them is of

Drolyt
2010-01-13, 10:15 AM
Yes, the doctor did not like sitting around. I also believe the reason he was banished to earth was because the Time Lords found him (he was "interfering"), although before the new series the Time Lords were the most powerful race in the universe, but took an oath onyl to watch. The new version of them is of

The Doctor's third incarnation was banished to earth as punishment for breaking their non-interference policy, a policy (I think was founded by Rassilon) that made it illegal to interfere with other species. It was created because the Time Lords had had bad experiences in the past where they screwed up less advanced civilizations, and was in that respect similar to Star Trek's Prime Directive (although I believe it predates the Prime Directive). After he saved Gallifrey they decided to go ahead and let him do what he wanted, since he was usually more of a help than a hindrance anyways.

Surgo
2010-01-13, 10:34 AM
I don't really get it.

If you already require a macguffin to even use the spell, why even have a spell in the first place? Why not just make it a power of the macguffin?

Drolyt
2010-01-13, 11:19 AM
I don't really get it.

If you already require a macguffin to even use the spell, why even have a spell in the first place? Why not just make it a power of the macguffin?

This seems to be everyone's question, and I already did my best to answer it, though from the sheer number of opinions to that effect perhaps you are right...

dsmiles
2010-01-13, 01:07 PM
This seems to be everyone's question, and I already did my best to answer it, though from the sheer number of opinions to that effect perhaps you are right...

Not my question, though. Mine is, "What happens when you burn the greatest hero/villain in existance out of the pattern?"

Drolyt
2010-01-13, 01:54 PM
Not my question, though. Mine is, "What happens when you burn the greatest hero/villain in existance out of the pattern?"

Recall what happened in the universe where the Doctor died. All the bad things he stopped happened, presumably the same would be the case for any hero. Or villain. In the case of a great hero like the Doctor having never existed, we can assume that the world is screwed.

J.Gellert
2010-01-13, 03:01 PM
Now I really want to see an ultra-powerful spell that uses this McGuffin as a material component.

Drolyt
2010-01-13, 03:12 PM
Now I really want to see an ultra-powerful spell that uses this McGuffin as a material component.

What would it do, destroy the universe? You can already pull that off with the current spell if you can get your save DC high enough to knock off enough deities.

Agi Hammerthief
2010-01-13, 04:13 PM
What would it do, destroy the universe? You can already pull that off with the current spell if you can get your save DC high enough to knock off enough deities.
why not use the Key as the material component for the current spell if that is the case?
makes the player think twice before using it

Drolyt
2010-01-13, 04:25 PM
why not use the Key as the material component for the current spell if that is the case?
makes the player think twice before using it

Because the Key is inextricably linked to the universe and the laws of physics? There are many artifacts that make good "destroy this artifact while pretending you are Frodo" quest, but this one wasn't meant for that, you don't want to destroy it. Sure in the wrong hands it can do evil, but it can do good too. Maybe I should create some more beneficial effects that use it...

Chrono22
2010-01-13, 06:44 PM
That would be cool, but who got rid of them them then...
Well, the way I say it happened:
The Leshay were a multiverse spanning empire. They created a hole/portal into the far realm. Some of them were infected on the other side, and turned into ultralithids. Those ultralithids then started taking over the multiverse.
To save the multiverse from the illithid empire, the remaining Leshay altered the timeline so that their civilization never existed- thus preventing the creation of the illithid empire. However, the illithid sacrificed their elder brains to create a psionic maelstrom- and managed to send some of themselves into the distant past.

Meanwhile, the portal the Leshay created was not totally erased- due to the timeless nature of the far realm, it was still a one-way portal into the multiverse for the Outsiders. Primordial beings (original outsiders) flocked into the multiverse. They began creating spawn (demons, devils, angels) from the petitioners of the planes. Thus began the chaos wars...
eventually the Staff of Law was created- locking off the far realm from the rest of the multiverse by creating an infinite number of intermediate layers (the abyss).

:smallbiggrin:

Drolyt
2010-01-13, 06:49 PM
Well, the way I say it happened:
The Leshay were a multiverse spanning empire. They created a hole/portal into the far realm. Some of them were infected on the other side, and turned into ultralithids. Those ultralithids then started taking over the multiverse.
To save the multiverse from the illithid empire, the remaining Leshay altered the timeline so that their civilization never existed- thus preventing the creation of the illithid empire. However, the illithid sacrificed their elder brains to create a psionic maelstrom- and managed to send some of themselves into the distant past.

Meanwhile, the portal the Leshay created was not totally erased- due to the timeless nature of the far realm, it was still a one-way portal into the multiverse for the Outsiders. Primordial beings (original outsiders) flocked into the multiverse. They began creating spawn (demons, devils, angels) from the petitioners of the planes. Thus began the chaos wars...
eventually the Staff of Law was created- locking off the far realm from the rest of the multiverse by creating an infinite number of intermediate layers (the abyss).

:smallbiggrin:

That's actually a pretty cool story. Is this Staff of Law some kind of Artifact? What does it do exactly? Does this mean the Illithids are Daleks?

Chrono22
2010-01-13, 06:54 PM
The Leshay are a race described in the Epic Level Handbook.
The illithid empire (and it's time travel) are described in Lords of Madness.

Since both civilizations predate the modern multiverse- and both tampered in time travel- it's an easy connection to make.

The Staff of Law is an actual artifact in D&D. Look it up some time. (The more common name is the rod of seven parts).

Drolyt
2010-01-13, 07:35 PM
The Leshay are a race described in the Epic Level Handbook.
The illithid empire (and it's time travel) are described in Lords of Madness.

Since both civilizations predate the modern multiverse- and both tampered in time travel- it's an easy connection to make.

The Staff of Law is an actual artifact in D&D. Look it up some time. (The more common name is the rod of seven parts).

I knew that? (Except the staff part, is that DMG? I'll google it.) Although I never knew that Mind Flayers could time travel, is that in Lords of Madness? Also, do you know if the Leshay were ever mentioned after the Epic Level Handbook? Their fluff seemed so cool (although the game mechanics... well being able to materialize swords was kinda cool) but I never saw them again.

Chrono22
2010-01-13, 07:50 PM
I'm not sure but I think that a named Leshay is mentioned in the description of Primus, or in some supplement related to Sigil.

The sheer quantity of lore surrounding d&d can be daunting.

Drolyt
2010-01-13, 08:09 PM
I'm not sure but I think that a named Leshay is mentioned in the description of Primus, or in some supplement related to Sigil.

The sheer quantity of lore surrounding d&d can be daunting.

And they threw it all out for 4th edition... Avoiding getting into a discussion on that, what is Primus?

Chrono22
2010-01-13, 08:14 PM
And they threw it all out for 4th edition... Avoiding getting into a discussion on that, what is Primus?
Oh, my bad. It's called Union. The epic city.

Drolyt
2010-01-13, 08:17 PM
Oh, my bad. It's called Union. The epic city.

Ah. I always thought Sigil and the City of Brass were more interesting than Union though. Actually I think there was a named Leshay in the organizations section of the Epic Level Handbook, everyone thought she was just a powerful elf and she had some cloak that could make you unrezable. Like what I did, but with different fluff.

Chrono22
2010-01-13, 08:22 PM
Ah. I always thought Sigil and the City of Brass were more interesting than Union though. Actually I think there was a named Leshay in the organizations section of the Epic Level Handbook, everyone thought she was just a powerful elf and she had some cloak that could make you unrezable. Like what I did, but with different fluff.
Ah yes. The Garrote. Anifer Unglum.

And yes, I'd agree, Sigil is far more interesting.

Scaboroth
2010-01-14, 02:23 AM
So if you are basing this on Dr. Who, the Key of Time should have six parts, not seven.
Well... Actually, the Key To Time consisted of six parts, but needed a seventh, the Locator Wand, to be inserted into its completed shape to activate it. So there are seven parts to it... technically.


Otherwise it just reminds me too much of the Rod of Seven Parts.
Maybe the Rod of Seven Parts was just an allegory (or a reshaping, or a mistranslation, or an exaggeration) for the Key To Time.

Drolyt
2010-01-14, 07:02 AM
Well... Actually, the Key To Time consisted of six parts, but needed a seventh, the Locator Wand, to be inserted into its completed shape to activate it. So there are seven parts to it... technically.


Maybe the Rod of Seven Parts was just an allegory (or a reshaping, or a mistranslation, or an exaggeration) for the Key To Time.

I haven't watched those episodes in a while, but I'll take your word for it, six parts and an locator wand. As for the Rod of Seven Parts, what are it's actual powers? I can't find anything on it.

J.Gellert
2010-01-14, 08:10 AM
What would it do, destroy the universe? You can already pull that off with the current spell if you can get your save DC high enough to knock off enough deities.

Pfft, destroy the universe? What kind of fool would do that?

No, it would reshape the universe!

Drolyt
2010-01-14, 08:48 AM
Pfft, destroy the universe? What kind of fool would do that?

No, it would reshape the universe!

Destroying an artifact that is inextricably linked to the universe in order to harness it's energies and reshape the universe as you see fit... that would be a cool spell.