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View Full Version : PEACH new feats (3.5)



Harperfan7
2010-01-12, 11:27 PM
Sunder Limb
Pre: Improved Sunder
Benefit: You can attempt to sunder an opponents limb (or horn) with a melee attack at a -4 penalty. If you hit, they must make a DC (= to damage dealt) fortitude save or lose use of that limb. If your attack is a critical hit and they fail the save, their limb is ruined and has to be regenerated (if your weapon is vorpal and you land a critical hit, the opponent doesn‘t get a saving throw). You cannot sunder a head.
Enemies immune to critical hits are immune to this ability. If the opponent is healed to full health they regain use of their limb(s). A ruined limb cannot be healed (except with regenerate).
If you sunder an arm, they lose use of that arm (losing any shield bonus to AC and losing the ability to use a two handed weapon). If the opponent attempts to cast a spell with a somatic component with a sundered arm, they suffer 50% spell failure (cumulative with arcane spell failure), 100% if both arms are sundered. If you sunder a leg, their speed is halved and they cannot run. If you sunder both legs, they fall prone and can only crawl. If the opponent has wings, you can sunder a wing making them lose the ability to fly. If you sunder a horn, the opponent can no longer make attacks with that horn, and if the opponent uses two horns for the same gore attack, its' base damage is halved.
You cannot sneak attack and sunder a limb in the same attack. You do not gain a bonus or penalty to attacks when sundering a limb based on weapon size, but the weapon used must be bludgeoning or slashing.


Pin-limb
Pre: PBS, Precise Shot, Sneak Attack +1d6
Benefit: Whenever you would normally sneak attack an opponent with a bow or crossbow, you can instead attempt to lodge an arrow into one of their joints, rendering it useless. When you use this ability, you must make a successful attack roll against your opponents AC at a -4 penalty. If successful, the opponent must make a DC (10 + your Dex + # of die of sneak attack damage) fortitude save or lose use of that limb after taking normal damage for the attack.
Anyone who fails their save against this ability can attempt to snap the arrow and pull it out. This requires a full-round action, one free hand, and a DC 10 + arrow/bolt's enhancement bonus str check, but it returns the limb to normal. Anyone who pulls an arrow/bolt out of a pinned limb must make a DC (same as attack) fort save or be nauseated for 1 round.
If you pinned an arm, they lose use of that arm (including any shield bonus to AC and the ability to use a two handed weapon). If the opponent attempts to cast a spell with a somatic component with a pinned arm, they suffer 50% spell failure (cumulative with arcane spell failure), 100% if both arms are pinned. If you pinned a leg, their speed is halved and they cannot run. If you pin both legs, they fall prone and can only crawl. If the opponent has wings, you can pin a wing making them lose the ability to fly.
If the opponent is immune to sneak attacks, they are immune to this ability. If the opponent is cured to full health they regain use of their limb(s).
If the weapon used is magical, increase the DC by 1 per +1 of enhancement bonus. If the weapon used has the Bane, Holy, Unholy, Anarchic, or Axiomatic enchantments, increase the DC by 1 per die of extra damage dealt to the enemy.

Glimbur
2010-01-13, 12:57 AM
Does Sunder Limb work via normal Sunder mechanics, or by targeting their AC at a -4 penalty?

Either way it's a bad idea. Combat now becomes a race of initiative, because it's workable to do more damage than can reasonably be saved against, so every fight will come down to who can first sunder the other person's arm. It's possible that the party's cleric could heal the damage and therefore restore the arm, but the person with Sunder Limb has more attacks than the cleric has healing.

Pin-Limb at least has more feasible DC's, but now a rogue can quite feasibly kill any one foe by the simple strategy of shooting out someone's leg from hiding and using their now-superior move speed to stay at enough range to kill the foe. Against enemies with missile weapons or those who make the save, the rogue just runs away. Spellcasters can be an issue, but when are they not?

tl;dr Too powerful.

dsmiles
2010-01-13, 05:25 AM
I agree, a little too powerful for low level. With a human fighter I could get Sunder Limb at level 1, and a human rogue can pick up pin limb at level 3. You should add a BAB requirement of about +5 on both for balance purposes.

ChumpLump
2010-01-13, 07:07 AM
Here are a few suggestions based on a quick glance;

Allow for head sunderings, but rather than destruction, dazing for a round, or dazzling, would work fine.

As for pinning, it is Dexterity modifier, correct? Perhaps offer a non-damaging version (-4 penalty, pinning cloths to walls, or other such nonsense?)

These feats are great, if you wish to encourage rules for more dramatic combat, balancing the DCs is always difficult, but I like where you're going with this.

Altair_the_Vexed
2010-01-13, 07:36 AM
Good idea - but too powerful as written.

My suggestions for balancing Sunder Limb: Add BAB 4+ to the Sunder Limb prerequisites Adjust the save so that armour or natural armour grants a bonus to the save

Harperfan7
2010-01-13, 01:42 PM
@chumplump: Good Idea with the daze/dazzling, I'll try to cook something up, but I think the pinning cloaks to walls has already been done in complete warrior.

Ok, I expected people to say they were too powerful, but here's my thinking.

-If you want Sunder limb at 1st, you have to be a human fighter and you have to expend all your feats to get it. You take a -4 on attacks (which is about what your attack bonus is at 1st, so it's really not so powerful, especially when you could probably drop your enemies in one hit at that level)

-How much damage are you going to do with one hit at 1st level? Let's assume a greatsword for +3 @ 2d6+3. Use of this feat leaves you with a -1 to attack and the save will average at DC 10. If you use power attack, that's -2 @ DC 12.

-Now let's look at higher levels. Against a CR appropriate opponent, there are a few considerations to look at.
1. Their AC - you can probably hit it even with the -4 to attack, but can you hit while power attacking?
2. The save if you aren't power attacking is probably doable by anybody worth trying to use this feat on, but their AC might be too high for a -5+ penalty.
3. If you can hit them with sunder limb while power attacking, they are probably easy enough to drop in a hit or two anyways.

But yes, I wanted deadlier fighters (and realistic fights).

Now, for Pin Limb, say you are a 3rd level human rogue who spent all his feats on this. If you have 15 dex, the save will be DC 14. Your attack is also going to be fairly low. How many CR 3's can't make a DC 14 fort save?

Anyways, knowing this, do you think they are still too powerful? (I mean, come on, wizards?)

jiriku
2010-01-13, 07:33 PM
I won't speak to the balance issues, but you should specify how long it takes to perform the heal check. If a limb is damaged to the point of uselessness, I really don't think a 3-second standard action is going to restore functionality. I'd say 10 minutes should be the bare minimum time required to attempt the heal check, and 1d4 hours is more realistic, since attempting to restore function to a ruined limb amounts to field surgery (and the healer would need to commit 1 hour to the attempt before rolling that d4).

Harperfan7
2010-01-13, 07:53 PM
I hadn't thought of how long the check should be, and realistically, it shouldn't really work at all, seeing as how it (probably) takes weeks for torn muscles and broken bones to heal.

I'm removing the ability to heal this effect.

Roderick_BR
2010-01-14, 07:43 AM
If people find it too powerful, you could make it a tactical feat. Make the maneuvers be something like sunder limb and stunning blow (for the dazze one), and something else.
Keep sunder as requisite (that requires Power Attack, as well), add a Bab 6+.

Eladrinblade
2010-01-15, 01:58 AM
Hmm, I like this. It adds depth to non-magical combat. The only problem I see is that, while not bad at low levels, the save for Sunder Limb can get pretty ridiculous considering that AC is usually much lower than attack bonus at higher levels.

However, fighters need more to do at higher levels and tend to lag behind the casters and rogues, so...

I'm definitely using these. Good job!