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KurtKatze
2010-01-14, 02:59 PM
Ray Master Prestige Class


Hit Dice: d4

Requirements

To qualify as a ray master, a character must fulfill all of the following requirements:

Skills: Knowledge (Arcana) 8 ranks, Spellcraft 8 ranks
Feats: Weapon Focus (Ray), Empower, Split Ray
Spells: Able to cast 3rd level Spells, 4 of it must be rays 2 at least of level 2.

Class Skills

The ray master's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are: Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Knowledge (Any) (Int), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Spot (Wis)

Skill Points at Each Level: 2 + Int Modifier

{table=head]Level | Base Attack Bonus | Fort Save | Ref Save | Will Save | Special | Spells per day
1st | +0 | +0 | +0 | +2 | Focused study, Ranged Combat Bonus Feat | +1 level of existing Spellcasting class
2nd | +1 | +0 | +0 | +3 | Extraordinary Mastery +5 ft range + 1 CL | +1 level of existing Spellcasting class
3rd | +2 | +1 | +1 | +3 | Bonus Feat: Easy MM Empower, Bonus Slot | -
4th | +3 | +1 | +1 | +4 | Extraordinary Mastery +10 ft, +2 CL| +1 level of existing Spellcasting class
5th | +3 | +1 | +1 | +4 | Ranged Combat Bonus Feat | +1 level of existing Spellcasting class
6th | +4 | +2 | +2 | +5 | Bonus Feat: Easy MM Split Ray, Extraordinary Mastery +15 ft., +3 | +1 level of existing
7th | +5 | +2 | +2 | +5 | Retrieve-Ray | +1 level of existing Spellcasting class
8th | +6/+1 | +2 | +2 | +6 | Increased Focus, Extraordinary Mastery +20 ft., +4 | +1 level of existing Spellcasting class
9th | +6/+1 | +3 | +3 | +6 | Ray Flexibility | +1 level of existing Spellcasting class
10th | +7/+2 | +3 | +3 | +7 |Extraordinary Mastery +25 ft., +5| +1 level of existing Spellcasting class [/table]


Focused study: The ray master must give up a school additionally to any other school for being a specialist wizard

Ranged Bonus Feat: On levels 1, 5 and 10, the ray master may choose a feat from the point blank shot tree as well as the mobility or mobile spellcaster the latter without necessarily having Dodge as prerequisite.

Extraordinary Mastery (Ex): The ray master gain + 5 ft reach, +1 CL against overcoming SR for ray spells. This Bonus increases proportionally every even level, until at level ten it reaches +25 ft. range, +5 CL against overcoming SR.

Bonus Slot: On his highest spell level, the ray master gains an extra slot for a ray spell of his choice. This slot moves with caster progression.

Retrieve-Ray (Ex): As a move action, a ray master can try to retrieve a ray spell, which has missed or been without effect due to Spell Resistance, with a Spellcraft check (DC 25 + spell level). This is impossible if the attack roll was a fumble.


Ray Flexibility (Ex): The ray master can, as a swift action, exchange a ray spell that he has prepared for any other ray spell he knows. He may apply metamagic to that spell, but it must with all modifiers from metamagic be 1 level lower than the spell he chooses to replace. He can do this 3 times a day.

Ray-Ricochet(Ex): Twice per day as a full round action the ray master can let his ray spell ricochet to another target within 30 ft. for half the damage/duration the original spell has done to its first target. The bouncing ray uses its own attack roll and check to overcome SR and grants another save if applicable. The ray can only ricochet once per ray that has been cast originally. This also applies to additional spells from Split Ray or Twin Spell. If the ray bestows an effect on the target like ray of dizziness, the ricocheting ray targets a creature not yet affected if possible, if not it will hit a target already affected without doing anything.

If used with the chainspell metamagic, the bounce occurs at the same time it normally would, and after that, the chainspell starts.

Increased Focus: All ray spells are cast at +1 CL, all other spells at -1.

Mongoose87
2010-01-14, 03:10 PM
What die is a W4?

Milskidasith
2010-01-14, 03:12 PM
HD: W4

Should be D4


Skill: 2 + int mod
Knowledge Arcane, Spellcraft, Concentration, Craft, Profession, Decipher Script

Why such a terrible skill list? It doesn't even have all knowledges on it. It's got less than a regular wizard.


Able to cast 3rd level Spells, 4 of it must be rays 2 at least of lvl 2.
Skills: Know arc 8 Spellcraft 8
Feats: Weapon Focus( Ray)
Proficiency with one martial or exotic ranged weapon.
Saves: wiz, BaB: Rogue, Caster progression: Full

Why the extra BAB and proficiency required? That doesn't make sense, seeing as you're blasting rays, not repeating crossbows.


lvl 1: Sure targeting, focused study, Ranged Combat Bonus feat,
lvl 2 -Extraordinary mastery 1
lvl 3: Bonus Feat: Split Ray
lvl 4: Extraordinary mastery 2
lvl 5: Ranged Combat Bonus Feat, Ray Insight
lvl 6: Bonus feat: Easy MM split Ray, Extraordinary mastery 3
lvl 7: Ray-rebound, Bonus Slot
lvl 8: Extraordinary mastery 4, increased focus
lvl 9: Ray-flexibility
lvl 10: Ray-ricochette, Ranged Combat Bonus Feat, Extraordinary mastery 5

Please use the table formatting.


Sure targeting: for a raymaster there is no "fumbling" with his prefered kind of spell. Whenever a raymaster rolls a natural 1
on his attack roll with a rayspell, he has to confirm it with a missed roll to actually fumble.
If it doesnt miss, the spell just misses the target.

There is no point to this rule. There is no "fumble" rule in real D&D. Even with houserules, it almost always requires a confirmation to fumble, so that is a useless benefit. Maybe "you don't miss on a natural 1" would be a good class feature.

f
ocused study: The Raymaster must give up a school additionally to any other school for being a specialist wizzard
this school must not have any ray spells in it. So Illusion, divination, abjuration and conjuration qualify.


I am fairly certain there are rays in all of them.


Ranged Bonus Feat: on level 1, 5 and 10 the raymaster may choose a feat from the point blank shot tree as well as
the mobility or mobile spellcaster the latter without necessarily having dodge as preqesition.

OK, bonus feats.


Extraordinary mastery: + 5 ft reach, +1 CL against overcoming SR for rayspells!


Ray spells don't have reach.


Ray Insight: If the rayspell of a spellcaster fails due to any kind of magical defense or special abilities or feats of an
opponent he can make a Knowledge:Arcane check against 15 + spelllevel / 15 + enemy level for non-spell defense
if he succeeds he knows why his spell has failed and gets a Spellcraft check (swift action) DC 20 + levle of rayspell
to get his rayspell back. Only works with rays!

I do not know what this means. Identifying an effect already in progress is a DC 20+spell level check, so making it a knowledge arcana check is pointless. Then the spellcraft check to get your ray back makes no sense, because... why do you get the spell back? This class feature has nonsensical skill rolls and a benefit that really doesn't make sense. Plus, against natural defenses (does this include AC?), it makes no sense to be rolling Knowledge: Arcana, and it has a much higher DC.


Ray Rebound:
As a move action a Raymaster can try to retrieve a rayspell which has missed or benn without effect due to SR
with a Spellcraft check (DC 25 + spell level) this is impossible if the attack roll was a fumble.

Again, this makes no sense. How does bouncing the ray around allow you to cast it again?


Bonus slot: On his highest spellevel the raymaster gains an extraslot for a rayspell of his choice. This slot
moves with caster Progression.

OK.


Ray Flexibilitšt: The raymaster can, as a swift action, exchange a rayspell which he has prepared for any other
rayspell he knows he may apply metamagick to that spell but it must with all modifiers from metamagick be
1 level lower than the spell he chooses to replace. He can do this 3 times a day.

This class feature is useless if you are a spontaneous caster.


Ray Ricochette:
Every Rayspell cast by the raymaster has a 50% chance to bounce of its original target and hit another
target within 30 ft. for half the damage the original spell has done to its first target. The bouncing ray uses
the attackroll of the first ray as well as the roll for the caster check against SR if apllicable.

Ok... what about rays that don't deal damage?


If used with the "chainspell" metamagick, the bounce occurs at the same time it normally would and after that
chainspell starts. It also starts at 50% of the original ray's dmg as normaly.

This doesn't explain anything. Does it bounce around and then get chained from the initial target, or bounce and then chain from each target it hits (meaning you'd deal massive damage if you got a bounce or two because it would deal >100% damage to all targets.)


increased focus
All rayspells are cast at +1 CL, all other spells at -1.

No problems with this.

Anonymouswizard
2010-01-14, 03:24 PM
Look up the spellwarp sniper PrC from Complete Scoundrel.

DracoDei
2010-01-14, 03:25 PM
Milskidasith: I assume the BAB is to help hit with the rays! May be overkill since they are touch attacks, but it is still nice.

A table would be nice. See "Guide to Homebrewing" link in the sticky post at the top of the homebrew forum.

You list more than one degree of "extraordinary mastery" in your table section, only one degree of it in the text. Also, +5 ft range is rarely an important difference for ray spells.

KurtKatze
2010-01-14, 03:57 PM
OK, changes:

skills 2+ int mod
Class kills: Like wizard

For the Preq's
Right, i should loose the weapon proficency. Any idea how to replace it? It appears to be a bit much giving 5 feats total and only needing 1 to qualify.

I'll update the table soon!


I'll get rid of the secure targetting.

Focused study: Loose any school of magic in addition to any you may have already lost due to specialisation.

Any ideas what i could use instead of a ranged bonus? Or should i leave it at the + to casterlevel checks for oversoming SR? The idea is that the boni are cummulative. So you would end up with +25 range and +5 to your Caster Level check at level 10.

I'll get rid of the ray insight.

OK the name of Ray-rebound was stupid. Lets call it "Retrieve Ray" instead.

I'll keep Ray flexibility. Taking into account that a spontaneous caster may not profit from it.

For the Ricochette:

Ray Ricochette:
Every Rayspell cast by the raymaster has a 50% chance to bounce of its original target and hit another target within 30 ft. for half the damage/duration (rounded up) the original spell has done to its first target. The bouncing ray uses the attackroll of the first ray as well as the roll for the caster check against SR if apllicable.
The ricochette only occurs once.

jiriku
2010-01-14, 04:36 PM
The split ray metamagic feat would be a good prerequisite, although then you'll need to remove it as your level 3 bonus feat.

I think this class is too powerful for a wizard prestige class, especially with the easy entry requirements. You gain 5 bonus feats that are directly useful for your specialty, the ability to re-use and recycle your ray spells, increased base attack bonus, reach, and spell penetration, and in exchange, you give up...one school that you weren't interested in anyways, and the bonus feats and familiar progression of the wizard.

To balance it, I suggest you don't advance casting at 1st level, and possibly remove another level of casting progression at either 7th or 10th. Slightly slower spell progression creates a more balanced class overall, compensating for the fact that you'll probably be throwing around twinned empowered split ray spells like rice at a wedding.

Ray ricochet: fractions in D&D always round down. You should re-roll attack rolls and spell resistance checks on secondary targets - it's a cheap trick to keep your same rolls, because if a ray is bouncing, then obviously you already rolled high enough to beat the AC and spell resistance of the first target. If you use split ray on a ray spell, can both rays ricochet? You should clarify that, otherwise "the ricochet only occurs once" may cause confusion.

KurtKatze
2010-01-14, 04:54 PM
Changed the feats a bit.

I want the Ricochette to apply to Split Ray but with twin spell i think it could get rediculess... at least combined with scourching ray on the other hand, if it works with Split ray why shouldn't it work with twin spell.

Maybe i have to let go of another spell progression there.

Would than have 1 normal lvl 9 slot, 1 "ray-only" slot and maybe one from the racial substitution lvel from races of wild for an elf.

Would make a grey-elf an interesting entry class...

Milskidasith
2010-01-14, 05:38 PM
The split ray metamagic feat would be a good prerequisite, although then you'll need to remove it as your level 3 bonus feat.

I think this class is too powerful for a wizard prestige class, especially with the easy entry requirements. You gain 5 bonus feats that are directly useful for your specialty, the ability to re-use and recycle your ray spells, increased base attack bonus, reach, and spell penetration, and in exchange, you give up...one school that you weren't interested in anyways, and the bonus feats and familiar progression of the wizard.

To balance it, I suggest you don't advance casting at 1st level, and possibly remove another level of casting progression at either 7th or 10th. Slightly slower spell progression creates a more balanced class overall, compensating for the fact that you'll probably be throwing around twinned empowered split ray spells like rice at a wedding.

Ray ricochet: fractions in D&D always round down. You should re-roll attack rolls and spell resistance checks on secondary targets - it's a cheap trick to keep your same rolls, because if a ray is bouncing, then obviously you already rolled high enough to beat the AC and spell resistance of the first target. If you use split ray on a ray spell, can both rays ricochet? You should clarify that, otherwise "the ricochet only occurs once" may cause confusion.

No. Losing a caster level for these benefits is not worth it. Sure, it gives a decent amount, but... caster levels are worth far more than feats.

DracoDei
2010-01-14, 05:54 PM
Losing at least a single caster level is probably worth it. I think KurtKatze misread an "Or" as an "And" and eliminated the casting level at 10th AND 7th.
I would give them caster level advancement at 10th, because the capstone is nothing to write home about.

The range increase is nice from a fluff perspective, but if you want it to be mechanically significant (You don't necessarily) then simply bump it up to 10 feet, or even 20 feet per degree instead of 5 feet per degree.

Cross referencing note: This class might be a good one to multiclass go into (at least until level 6) either before or after my own Artillery Mage (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6485821#post6485821). I would say multiclass it... but Artillery Mage basically makes you take a disadvantage (actually taking a familiar) at first level, and then lessens that disadvantage progressively, until the capstone (basically) removes it.

jiriku
2010-01-14, 05:54 PM
Twin and split ray stack. So for example, twinned split ray enervation produces two split ray enervation spells. One spell slot, four rays. If they ricochet, then you'll have as many as 8 rays (6 rays on average).

Is ray ricochet always on, or can you choose not to use it? If it's always on, you may be sorry if the only other person within 30 feet of an enemy is you.

The table looks nice! Giving up three casting levels is too much. Give up only two casting levels at the most, or only one casting level if you sacrifice ray ricochet.

Keep in mind that the damage potential is strong, and a wizard/raymaster will be very strong and do a lot of damage -- but doing damage is only one of many things a wizard can do. And it's not the strongest thing. So you don't have to cripple your spellcasting just because the prestige class can easily deal a lot of damage.

KurtKatze
2010-01-14, 09:42 PM
this is true but it could also be used for awesom debuffing, although the awesome debuffing can also be done without the ricochette :)

Maybe I'll give the ricochette a "twice per day at will increase casting time to a full round" nerf and keep the caster level.

I'll give it some thought and update the thing tomorrow.

Thank you all very much for your input on this!

KurtKatze
2010-01-15, 08:13 AM
Ok, changes:

loose 1 CL at 3rd

Ray ricochet:

twice per day, at will, increases the casting time of the ray to a full round action. Affects a target not yet affected in case of ray of sickness or ray of dizziness.

So there is some nice "fieldcontroll" and "mass debuff" potential in this but due to the increased time and only twice per day it comes at some cost and well, it has to hit. I will get rid of the 50% chance though as only twice per day and if you mess it up it is a complete waste.

Debihuman
2010-01-15, 09:14 AM
Actually some formatting of the text would be helpful:

Ray Master Prestige Class


Hit Dice: d4

Requirements

To qualify as a ray master, a character must fulfill all of the following requirements:

Skills: Knowledge (Arcana) 8 ranks, Spellcraft 8 ranks
Feats: Weapon Focus (Ray), Empower, Split Ray
Spells: Able to cast 3rd level Spells, 4 of it must be rays 2 at least of level 2.

Class Skills

The ray master's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are: Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Knowledge (Any) (Int), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Spot (Wis)

Skill Points at Each Level: 2 + Int Modifier

By the way, the table looks really good.

One more thing: You left off the type of Special Ability. You should indicate whether it is Extraordinary (Ex), Supernatural (Su) or Spell-like (Sp).

Here is a quick edit of what you'd already written. I just cleaned up some spelling and added formatting.

Focused study: The ray master must give up a school additionally to any other school for being a specialist wizard

Ranged Bonus Feat: On levels 1, 5 and 10, the ray master may choose a feat from the point blank shot tree as well as the mobility or mobile spellcaster the latter without necessarily having Dodge as prerequisite.

Extraordinary Mastery: The ray master gain + 5 ft reach, +1 CL against overcoming SR for ray spells. This Bonus increases proportionally every even level, until at level ten it reaches +25 ft. range, +5 CL against overcoming SR.

Bonus Slot: On his highest spell level, the ray master gains an extra slot for a ray spell of his choice. This slot moves with caster progression.

Retrieve-Ray: As a move action, a ray master can try to retrieve a ray spell, which has missed or been without effect due to Spell Resistance, with a Spellcraft check (DC 25 + spell level). This is impossible if the attack roll was a fumble.


Ray Flexibility: The ray master can, as a swift action, exchange a ray spell that he has prepared for any other ray spell he knows. He may apply metamagic to that spell, but it must with all modifiers from metamagic be 1 level lower than the spell he chooses to replace. He can do this 3 times a day.

Ray-Ricochet: Twice per day as a full round action the ray master can let his ray spell ricochet to another target within 30 ft. for half the damage/duration the original spell has done to its first target. The bouncing ray uses its own attack roll and check to overcome SR and grants another save if applicable. The ray can only ricochet once per ray that has been cast originally. This also applies to additional spells from Split Ray or Twin Spell. If the ray bestows an effect on the target like ray of dizziness, the ricocheting ray targets a creature not yet affected if possible, if not it will hit a target already affected without doing anything.

If used with the chainspell metamagic, the bounce occurs at the same time it normally would, and after that, the chainspell starts.

Increased Focus: All ray spells are cast at +1 CL, all other spells at -1.


Debby

KurtKatze
2010-01-16, 08:42 AM
Done.

Thank you for the editing!

Debihuman
2010-01-16, 11:37 AM
I think you still need to change some of your text to reflect some of the changes that you were going to make.

Debby