Speedster Base Class [3.5] [Archive] - Giant in the Playground Forums

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AustontheGreat1

2010-01-15, 05:51 AM

Eh im not very good at homebrewing stuff or D&D in general so I guess ill explain my reasoning on some of this stuff.

SPEEDSTER
{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special|Speed Bonus

1st|
+0|
+0|
+2|
+0|Speed Speak, Speed Strike, Run|+5 feet

2nd|
+1|
+0|
+3|
+0|Evasion, Evasive Maneuvers|+10 feet

3rd|
+2|
+1|
+3|
+1|Bonus Feat, Think Fast (+2)|+10 feet

4th|
+3|
+1|
+4|
+1|Accelerated Metabolism 1|+20 feet

5th|
+3|
+1|
+4|
+1|Alacrity|+20 feet

6th|
+4|
+2|
+5|
+2|Special Ability|+30 feet

7th|
+5|
+2|
+5|
+2|Bonus Feat, Think Fast (+4)|+30 feet

8th|
+6/+1|
+2|
+6|
+2|Accelerated Metabolism 2|+40 feet

9th|
+6/+1|
+3|
+6|
+3|Improved Evasion|+40 feet

10th|
+7/+2|
+3|
+7|
+3|Special Ability|+50 feet

11th|
+8/+3|
+3|
+7|
+3|Bonus Feat, Think Fast (+6)|+50 feet

12th|
+9/+4|
+4|
+8|
+4|Accelerated Metabolism 3|+60 feet

13th|
+9/+4|
+4|
+8|
+4|Lend Speed|+60 feet

14th|
+10/+5|
+4|
+9|
+4|Special Ability|+70 feet

15th|
+11/+6/+1|
+5|
+9|
+5|Bonus Feat, Think Fast (+8)|+70 feet

16th|
+12/+7/+2|
+5|
+10|
+5|Accelerated Metabolism 4|+80 feet

17th|
+12/+7/+2|
+5|
+10|
+5|Accelerate|+80 feet

18th|
+13/+8/+3|
+6|
+11|
+6|Special Ability|+90 feet

19th|
+14/+9/+4|
+6|
+11|
+6|Bonus Feat, Think Fast (+10)|+90 feet

20th|
+15/+10/+5|
+6|
+12|
+6|Celerity, Accelerated Metabolism 5|+100 feet[/table]

Hit Die: 1d6

Class Skills
The Speedster’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Escape Artist (Dex), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Wis), Slight of Hand (Dex), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), and Tumble (Dex).
(4 + Int modifier) ×4 at first level.

Class Features

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Speedsters are proficient with all simple weapons, plus the hand crossbow, rapier, sap, short bow, and short sword. Speedsters are proficient with light armor, but not with shields.

Speed Bonus: When wearing light armor or when unarmored, the speedster gets a bonus to his base land speed as indicated by the speedster class table.

Speed Speak: Speedsters have a special language of their own. Speedsters can speak so rapidly that only those as fast as they are can understand. This is not a language but a way of talking comprehendible only to speedsters. Those who are not speedsters hear only high pitched gibberish. This language cannot be learned or understood through none magical means (such as the polyglot feat) but can be interpreted through magical effects such as the comprehend language spell. (this ability was added because its one of my favorite speedster tricks. and a unique language only speakable by 1 class has been done before so, why not?)

Speed Strike (Ex): A speedster can attack someone while moving at high speeds. Whenever a speedster moves at least 50 feet during his turn, he deals an extra +1d8 damage per 20 feet moved above 30 feet ((rounded down) to a maximum of 1d8 per speedster class level.) with all attacks until the start of his next turn. (this use to have something about the character dropping his weapon on a failed strength check. i removed it because no one seemed to like it.)

Run: At first level a speedster gains run as a bonus feat.

Evasion (Ex): Whenever a speedster is subject to an attack that allows a reflex save for half damage, a speedster takes no damage on a successful save. A speedster only gains benefit from this ability when he is wearing light armor or is unarmored.

Bonus Feat: At 3rd level and every 4 levels thereafter a speedster gains a bonus speed feat. The speedster must meet any prerequisites for these feats as normal. In addition to the speed feats, these feats are also available: Agile, Athletic, Bounding Assault, Combat Expertise, Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, Endurance, Improved Initiative, Improved Unarmed Strike Lightning Reflexes, Quick Draw, Rapid Reload, and Weapon Finesse.

Evasive Maneuvers (Ex): At 2nd level a speedster receives a +1 dodge bonus to his armor class for every 10 feet more than 30 he moves in a round (to a maximum of +1 per speedster class level). This increase only applies to any round in which he does not take an attack action. This bonus remains until the beginning of his next turn. A speedster only gains benefit from this ability when he is wearing light armor or is unarmored.

Think Fast (Ex): A Speedster not only moves fast, he thinks fast. At 3rd level a speedster receives a +2 bonus to all will saves vs. mind affecting effects and to all initiative checks. These bonuses increase to +4 at 7th level, +6 at 11th level, +8 at 15th level, and +10 at 19th.

Accelerated Metabolism (Ex): A speedster’s body works on a faster pace than those of others. At 4th level a speedster gains fast healing 1. This healing increases by 1 every 4 levels thereafter, fast healing 2 at 8th level, fast healing 3 at 12th, fast healing 4 at 16th and fast healing 5 at 20th.
(I've never really cared about fast healing as a combat ability, I just like it as an in-between thing, so that I don't have to worry about damage from one battle to another)

Alacrity (Ex): When a speedster makes a charge, he can follow with a full attack. (this ability may be a little early, but...I don't really feel like changing the chart.)

Improved Evasion (Ex): this ability functions like evasion except that on a failed save, the speedster takes only half damage.

Special Abilities: On attaining 6th level, and at every four levels thereafter (10th, 14th, and 18th), a speedster gains a special ability of her choice from among the following options.

Agile Runner: When charging or running, the speedster may make a single 90 degree turn. This ability may be selected multiple times, allowing multiple turns during a charge or run.

Impeccable Speed: Once per day, and only once per round, as an immediate action, the speedster may move up to their land speed. If this would bring the speedster out of an attack's reach or range out of a spell's area or range, that attack or spell has a 50% chance of not affecting the speedster. This ability may be selected multiple times, granting additional uses per day.

Unbelievable Speed: A number of times per day equal to the speedster's Dexterity bonus, he can run at ten times his normal speed for 1 round. This ability may be selected multiple times, each time granting additional uses equal to the speedster's Dexterity bonus. A speedster cannot make an attack in any round he has used this ability.

Impact Resistance (Ex): A speedster is highly resistant to damage from high speed impacts. All bludgeoning damage he takes is considered nonlethal. This includes falling damage.

Passing Strike (Ex): A speedster can attack enemies along his path of movement. A speedster can make a number of attacks equal to his dexterity modifier against any opponents he moves by during a move action. He can make no more than a single attack against any single opponent during this movement. If the speedster is unsuccessful on this attack, the target may make an attack or opportunity against the speedster as typical for moving out of a threatened square.

Bonus Feat: the speedster may select a bonus speed feat in place of a special ability.

Accelerate (Ex): A speedster can achieve speeds that shouldn’t be normally possible without the aid of magic. For a number of rounds per day equal to the speedsters dexterity modifier the speedster may accelerate himself, granting himself an extra round, though doing so pushes the speedster beyond his normal limits. These extra rounds function similarly to those granted by the time stop spell, in that while acting in an round granted by this ability, other creatures are invulnerable to your attacks and spells; you cannot target such creatures with any attack or spell. For every round beyond the first that the effect lasts, the speedster takes 2 points of constitution damage due to the speedster pushing himself beyond his physical limits.

Celerity (Ex): At 20th level a speedster has realized his full potential. A Speedster gains the ability to, once per round; take an extra standard action, either before or after his other actions in the round. In this manner, a speedster may even take an extra standard action after taking a full-round action during a single round.

-0-

Flavor to come later. or never depending on how i feel. not really needed though, the idea "is your really fast." create whatever flavor you like, that's what being a superhero is all about.

One more thing. Realms_of_Chaos really brought this whole thing together, I don't really claim to have created this, I just brought to the table, he put it together. I just wanted to give credit where credit was due.

AustontheGreat1

2010-01-15, 05:53 AM

SPEED FEATS

Vertical Momentum [Speed Feat]

Benefit: A Speedster can move so quickly that his momentum can carry him straight up vertical surfaces. A speedster can take part of one of his move actions to traverse a wall or other relatively smooth vertical surface if he begins and ends his move on a horizontal surface. The height he can achieve on the wall is limited only by this movement restriction. If he does not end his move on a horizontal surface, he falls prone, taking falling damage as appropriate for his distance above the ground. Treat the wall as a normal floor for the purpose of measuring his movement. Passing from floor to wall or wall to floor costs no movement; he can change surfaces freely. Opponents on the ground can make attacks of opportunity as you move up the wall. The speedster can take other move actions in conjunction with moving along a wall. For instance, the Spring Attack feat allows him to make an attack from the wall against a foe standing on the ground that is within the area he threatens; however, if he is somehow prevented from completing his move, he falls. Likewise, he could tumble along the wall to avoid attacks of opportunity.
________________________________________________
Blur [Speed Feat]

Benefit: When a speedster runs, he seems to be a blur shooting across the battlefield. A speedster gains a miss chance against attacks of opportunity from moving into, through, or out of a threatened square. This miss chance is equal to (5 x speed guy class level)%.
________________________________________________
Hydroplane [Speed Feat]

Prerequisites: Vertical Momentum
Benefit: A speedster can move so quickly that he can run right across water. A speedster can take part of one of his move actions to travel across liquid surfaces so long as he begins and ends his move on a solid surface. If he does not complete the move on a solid surface he sinks beneath whatever liquid he was traveling across. Treat the liquid as a normal solid surface for the purpose of measuring movement, though choppy or otherwise rough water is considered difficult terrain. The speedster can take other move actions in conjunction with moving along the water. For instance, the Spring Attack feat allows him to make an attack from the water against a foe standing on the ground that is within the area he threatens; however, if he is somehow prevented from completing his move, he falls. Likewise, he could tumble along the water to avoid attacks of opportunity.
__________________________________________________
Quick Step [Speed Feat]

Prerequisites: Speedster Level 7th
Benefit: A speedster can move from on place to another so quickly he seems not have moved at all. A number of times per day equal to the speedster’s dexterity modifier, a speedster can recreate the effects of a dimension door spell (caster level equal to his speedster class level) with the exception that the speedster cannot carry any other creature with him nor can he carry any more than a light load, and he cannot move into an area to which there is no entrance, such as a room with no door; due to the fact that the speedster is not teleporting, but moving very quickly. This is an immediate action which can only be used once per round. A speedster cannot take a move action in any turn after using his Quick Step ability; he can make an attack if he still has a standard action. Quick Stepping out of a threatened square does not provoke an attack of opportunity, but stepping into one does. A speedster can use this ability a number of times per day equal to his dexterity modifier. A speedster cannot use this ability if he is using heavy or medium armor.
________________________________________________
Flurry of Stone [Speed Feat]

A speedster can create a barrage of small stones and objects to pummel his opponents.

Prerequisites: Speedster level 6th
Benefit: As a standard action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity, a speedster can create a cone of flying rocks and debris. Creatures in the cone are entitles to a reflex save for half damage, those who fail take 1d4 for every point of dexterity modifier that the character possess. This ability can be used a number of times per day equal to 2 + the number of speed feats that the character possesses and can only be done once every 2d4 rounds.
_________________________________________________
Snatch! [Speed Feat]

Speedster can leave you empty handed before you even see him move.

Prerequisites: Improved Disarm, Quick Step
Benefit: A speedster can disarm a group of opponents in the blink of an eye. As a standard action that does not provoke an attack or opportunity, a speedster can attempt to disarm all opponents in a 10ft area around himself. The speedster makes a single disarm check against all the opponents roll in the area. The speedster may use his dexterity on this check instead of his strength when making the disarm attack. This ability consumes a use of the Quickstep ability.
__________________________________________________
Wind Thrust [Speed Feat]

A speedster can create powerful gales of wind by spinning his arms rapidly.

Benefit: As a full round action that does not provoke at attack of opportunity, a speedster may create a burst of air forceful enough to knock people back. In a 60ft line emanating from the speedster, all creatures must make a Fort Save (DC = 10+ 1/2 speedster level + Dexterity Modifier.) or be flung back a number of feet equal to 5 x save DC – the opponents save result. If the opponent is stopped before he reaches the distance he would have been pushed he takes damage equal to 1d6/10ft remaining. Creatures that succeed on their Fortitude saves are not knocked back but are stunned for 1 round. Creatures who larger than the speedster get a +4 circumstantial bonus to the save for every category larger than the speedster the creature is. Alternatively, the creature get a -4 for every category smaller it is. This ability can be done a number of times per day equal to the number of speed feats the speedster possess.
______________________________________________
Whirlwind [Speed Feat]

By spinning rapidly, a speedster can create a powerful vortex with enough strength to hamper all within, or even lift them right off the ground.

Prerequisites: Wind Thrust
Benefit: A Speedster may, by spending a Full round action that does provoke an attack of opportunity, create a powerful whirlwind with a radius of (5 x dexterity modifier)ft. the area within this whirlwind is considered difficult terrain. All creatures within this area are subject to a fort save (DC = 10 + speedster level + dexterity modifier) or are lifted into the air and are considered slowed. Creatures get a +4 to this check for every size category larger than the speedster. Those lifted are considered flat footed and cannot move. Ranged weapons cannot function in the effect of a whirlwind due to high speed winds; all ranged attacks have a 90% miss chance. This miss chance does not apply against ranged spells. They may act normally but must make a concentration check (DC 25 + spell level) in order to cast any spells. Creatures caught inside take a -4 penalty to dexterity as well as a – 2 to all attacks. Creatures that do succeed on this check are not lifted but are considered slowed. A speedster may use this ability a number of times per day equal to the number of speed feats he possess. A speedster may continue to spend full round actions to maintain this whirlwind until he wishes to stop or he is physically stopped by a successful attack or some outside force. Maintaining or activating this consumes a speedsters entire turn, he may not take any action in a turn he is maintaining or activating a whirlwind, even if he has an ability that grants him an extra action; Doing so will immediately end the current whirlwind and creating another uses up another daily use of the whirlwind. A whirlwind lasts as long as the speedster desires to maintain it, but doing so longer that a number of rounds equal to 2x the speedsters dexterity modifier will result in the speedster becoming fatigued. If maintained for longer than 4x dexterity modifier rounds the speedster will become exhausted. When a speedster ends a whirlwind (Whether by force or by choice) the whirlwind will continue until the beginning of the speedsters next turn. The speedster cannot use this ability if he is wearing medium or heavy armor.
__________________________________________________
Quicker than they Eye [Speed Feat]

Benefit: A speedster gains a +2 bonus to his slight of hand checks for every speed feat he possesses.
__________________________________________________
Too Fast to See [Speed Feat]

Prerequisites: Quicker than the Eye
Benefit: In any round in which a speedster moves more than 60 feet, he is considered invisible until the beginning of his next turn. The speedster cannot use this ability if he is wearing medium or heavy armor.
__________________________________________________
Fast Images [Speed Feat]

A speedster can move so quickly he appears to be in multiple places at once.

Prerequisites: Quick Step, Blur
Benefit: a speedster can recreate the effects of a mirror image spell with a caster level equal to his speedster class level. This effect is not penetrated by the true seeing spell or any other spell that allows that penetrates illusory magic, as this effect is not illusion but the result of a speedster moving very quickly. A use of this ability Consumes a use of the Quick Step ability. The speedster cannot use this ability if he is wearing medium or heavy armor.
__________________________________________________
Agile Reposte [Speed Feat]

Prerequisite: Dex 13+, Dodge, Weapon Finesse, base attack +1 or higher.
Benefit: If the opponent you have designated as your Dodge target (see the Dodge feat) misses you with a melee attack or melee touch attack and you are wielding a weapon you have chosen for the Weapon Finesse feat, you may attempt an attack of opportunity against that opponent.
This feat can be used only once per round, even if you are allowed more than one attack of opportunity each round.

I didn't make this feat and I don't claim to have. It is found in the Dragon Magazine, issue #305
__________________________________________________ __
Momentous Charge [Speed Feat]
[B]
Benefit: You deal double damage on any charge attack you make in any round in which you have move your full movement.
__________________________________________________ __
Eat my Dust! [Speed Feat]

Prerequisites: Wind Thrust
Benefit: By spending a full round action a speedster can create a cylinder of concealment (Cylinder (15-ft. radius, 50 ft. high)) the grants total concealment to those within. The radius extends from the place where the speedster was standing when he activated the ability. this ability can be used a number of times per day equal to 3 + the number to speed feats the speedster possess.

-0-

Just some examples of speed feats, based off of some tried and true comic book speedster speed tricks. Got some more in mind.

Edit: I've removed the prerequisites on the speed feats because I suck at making them, ideas for what they should be would be much appreciated.

Zeta Kai

2010-01-15, 06:28 AM

AustontheGreat1

2010-01-15, 08:06 AM

1) For base classes, it is customary to type out the iterative attacks in the BAB column.

2) I think the capstone should have +100'. At that point, an extra +10' wouldn't matter much, but it would make the 20th level more appealing & definitive.

3) Conversely, I'd only have +5' at first level. It gets the point across, without giving 1st level characters too much power (see points 6 & 7).

4) Without any fluff text, I'm not sure what a character's concept should be, other than Run-Really-Fast-Guy. I kinda need a bit more to go on.

5) The feats are a nice touch. Please send more.

6) Evasion at first level makes this a very attractive dip class. In fact, that first level is overstuffed with goodies.

7) Speed Strike is too powerful at first level. +2d6? At 1st? Really?

8) The rules for Speed Strike are unclear. Is it an unarmed strike? Is it an armed attack, but using it armed causes you to drop the weapon after using it? I don't quite get that.

9) Overall, not a bad class. I'll give it a more in-depth look later.

Flavour is soon to come, right now Im just using this as a place to bring it all together. A lot of it was just thrown together.

Speed Strike was what i was mainly referring to when i said that the abilities were poorly worded. I'm pretty sure I'm going to scrap it. in favour of giving the speedster more bonus speed feats. If the ability is too powerful it is because i wanted to give the speedster something for giving up a full attack. if i am correct you cant make a full attack after taking a move action, dont you need a full round action to do that?

More speed feats definitely on the way, in fact the entire concept started with the speed feats.

Milskidasith

2010-01-15, 01:53 PM

It has a very low speed strike damage, and, since you take it after a full movement, it requires huge wide open spaces... and you still lose your weapon if you don't make a strength check? It's strictly worse than the scout for adding damage... maybe if you added damage on a charge. Of course, then everybody would dip into barbarian for pounce with this, but everybody does that anyway.

Celerity is a pretty powerful capstone, though.

Zom B

2010-01-15, 02:36 PM

1) You have to make your full movement in order to get Speed Strike? So at 1st level, if I'm a human, I have to move 40 feet to get bonus damage? And at, say, 18th level, I have to move 120 feet? This seems inconvenient.

2) So you have to move faster than normal to be better at hiding and moving silently? Boy, those silly rogues have been doing it wrong all this time.

3) I also agree that some 1st level is a little absurd. True, you get only one attack off if you move your full speed so it's not quite the same as a rogue's sneak attack, but still with that one attack, you can power attack, leap attack, etc. And Evasion right off the bat?

daekle

2010-01-15, 04:22 PM

Well, overall I really like the idea. Fast moving character with a lot of interesting abilities. I think exchanging "full attacks" for bonuses is a really interesting downside for a class to have. also I adore characters that move faster then normal (Gnome barabarians = win).

as for the abilities:
Speed Strike: a nice idea, but a little overpowered (especially in the first few levels) for my tastes. I personally loath the scout ability to charge attack for more damage then a skilled rogue can sneak attack, but if the ability was shifted 1 or 2 levels down (maybe a level 2 ability?) I'd call it playable.
Also I'd wind down the "full movement" part to maybe 30-40ft? as currently (as has been stated before) as he levels up it gets harder for him to use this rather then easier.

Accelerated Metabolism: once again, I like the idea. But needs to be shifted slightly toward higher levels. Not by much just by 1. Imo its about equivalent to the barbarian Damage resistance in power (maybe slightly better). Barbarians get damage resistance at level 7 in 3.5 rules so starting this ability at level 7, rather then 5 or 6 would bring it in line.

Celerity: Awsome. Very powerful but... awsome. needs to specify "can only do this in light armour or unarmoured" as otherwise it would get abused (knowing my group we'd end up with a group of speeder wizard (don't ask how I know they'd find a loophole) wearing full plate casting 2 spells a round)

Speed Feats: erm... Moar plz? :D I really like them.

All in all, with a the few notes I mentioned here, if any of my group asked to play one of those i'd be well up for it :D

jiriku

2010-01-15, 04:51 PM

Is this a skillful class or a martial class? Right now it seems you haven't decided. If it's a skillful class, you need 6+ skill points per level. If it's a martial class you need full base attack bonus and proficiency with all martial weapons. You might even do both. Consider adding Iaijutsu focus to the class skill list, as it's relevant flavor-wise and could give you some ideas for how to improve your Speed Strike. Also, since you have a class ability that grants you bonuses to Sleight of Hand, you should include that as a class skill.

Speed Strike: needs revision. It's awkward and difficult to use considering that it is the signature ability of the class. It deals too much damage at low level and not enough damage at high level. You should deal no more than +1d6 at level 1, and max level you should deal +10d6 (or more, considering that most of the classes that deal +x6 damage are pretty low on the power curve). Perhaps at higher levels you could make an opponent flat-footed in some way.

Quicker than the Eye: Moving fast should not grant benefits to Hide and Move Silently. The eye is drawn to rapid motion, and greater velocity means greater noise when you impact the floor/grass/small woodland animals/whatever.

Accelerated Metabolism: Damage and hit points scale rapidly at higher levels. Your fast healing needs to keep up. Increase it to fast heal 1 at 5th, fast healing 3 at 11th, and fast healing 5 at 17th. FYI, your chart and your text disagree about which levels this ability is granted/improved at.

Think Fast: Don't create new bonus types. This game is complicated enough as it is. Just make these untyped bonuses.

Celerity: A lesser celerity (granting a move action instead of a standard action) acquired somewhere between 11th and 15th level would be nice.

You need more class features. A lot more class features. Right now you could compress all these powers into a 10-level prestige class and it would be balanced. THe class needs to acquire many more new options as it advances in level.

There's a common misconception, even in WotC products, that a linear improvement of an existing ability is a new class feature. It's not so. For example, from levels 7 -19, you have 14 entries on your chart, but you only provide 3 new class features: improved evasion and two bonus feats. Everything else is just old ablities being upgraded to remain relevant. Three class abilities in 13 levels is just not enough. "Your Speed Strike improves by +1d6" is just like saying "your Fort save improves by +1". It's not really an improvement, because the opposition also gets more hit points and higher save DCs to counter your improvement. ten levels of improvements like that and your class is merely treading water.

Temotei

2010-01-15, 05:02 PM

I think celerity is really powerful, but it might be justified.

Think fast is better than the scout's battle fortitude. I'm not sure if this is intended or not. +8 initiative at level 20 is really good--not to mention +8 on will saves vs. mind-affecting attacks.

Why does speed strike require a Strength check to keep holding a weapon? That's just penalizing melee fighters and even ranged fighters. It also should probably do +1d6 at first level, adding bonuses after that every three levels like so:

1st -- 1d6
4th -- 2d6
7th -- 3d6
10th -- 4d6
13th -- 6d6
16th -- 8d6
19th -- 10d6

It's not linear, but as long as you say that in text, you should be fine. Use what you want though.

Don't use new types of bonuses...:smallsigh:

Evasion shouldn't be at 1st level. 2nd level at the earliest.

jiriku

2010-01-15, 05:07 PM

Review of your feats:

Vertical Momentum: should be available at 2nd or 3rd level, since, it's basically a watered-down spider climb.

Blur: Blur should substitute for, rather than require, Mobility. It should be available at 1st level; it's self-balancing at lower levels, since the miss chance is indexed to your class level, and the benefit provided (avoid opportunity attacks) isn't very potent anyhow.

Hydroplane: This should be available around 5th or 6th level, since that's when clerics and favored souls gain access to water walk.

Quick Step: this ability should be available at 7th or 8th level, since it's effectively a very limited form of dimension door. The limitation you're trying to apply in the following round is called the staggered condition: simply state that the character is staggered for one round after using Quick Step. Also, I see no reason why the speedster could not carry a creature with him if he remains within his light load limit (for example, this allows a speedster/wizard to carry his familiar).

I'd recommend you add Improved Initiative to the list of Speed Feats.

These feats are good and very flavorful, but they're not nearly as strong as you think they are, judging from the level prerequisites you're putting on them. I'd recommend you spend some time reading the higher-level spells in the Player's Handbook to get a better feel for what types of actions are available to high-level characters.

Temotei

2010-01-15, 05:21 PM

Vaynor

2010-01-15, 05:32 PM

Also: the speed bonus is kind of counterproductive. Every time you get a boost in speed, you have to go that much farther to get the bonus damage from speed strike.

Again, that makes it justifiable to at least use higher damage, if not a status effect as well. Or just the status effect and minor damage.

Agreed, for this class it might be almost worth it to just wear heavy armor. You'd only lose the speed bonus but be able to use Speed Strike much more often. To solve this problem, have a lot more of the class abilities depend on wearing light armor or less, and change speed strike to a flat distance you need to move in order to use Speed Strike. Perhaps if you move more than the base required amount you gain bonuses to Speed Strike.

THE_BIG_CHEESE

2010-01-15, 05:51 PM

You could simply make speed strike be based on how much you moved prior to hitting the target. That way the max damage would scale with the leveling (more speed) and it wouldn't be entirely useless if you couldn't hit your whole move speed per round. I'd also suggest possibly looking into the disarm rules for losing your weapon instead of just a strength check, seeing as how some things (such as a locked gauntlet) that help with disarming would similarly help with that.

Also, a possible class ability might be something like the ability to essentially overexert yourself and run fast enough to create a sonic boom in an area (damage, deafening, etc.) but then be exhausted afterwards or something (and ignore the fact that I'm pretty sure a regular body would be torn apart by doing that) An idea for the hide/move silently thing too could be that instead you could just move at higher speeds while retaining your current bonus (like you're so used to moving at ridiculous speeds it's easier to move faster than most while staying as quiet/stealthy as them). Just suggestions though to possibly streamline things a bit. All in all pretty nice.

Vaynor

2010-01-15, 05:53 PM

Also, a possible class ability might be something like the ability to essentially overexert yourself and run fast enough to create a sonic boom in an area (damage, deafening, etc.) but then be exhausted afterwards or something (and ignore the fact that I'm pretty sure a regular body would be torn apart by doing that)

Perhaps a feat that allows you to, instead of making a normal Speed Strike, to make a sonic boom and change it to an AoE that also deafens those nearby for a certain number of rounds.

Mulletmanalive

2010-01-15, 06:04 PM

The Harrier from Monte Cooke's Iron Heroes does basically this [without the feats] and does it a little better.

On the Speed Strike, my suggestion is that you use his method of calculation and base it on the number of squares travelled in the round. This can be made more effective than it seems by including the distance moved with Spring Attack after the fact.

Why are Spring Attack and its improved forms not on the list of bonus feats? They seem like outright no-brainers for such a class. The lack of Mobility also feels like something of a jip [i doubt it would make much of a difference to balance just including it around 3rd level because it's not all that great in most games].

As it stands, the core weakness of this class is that it has no defensive abilities prior to [almost inevitably] taking blur at 6th level and yet has no ability to make an escape, Flash style, from the scuffle after making its attack.

Edit: PS. Someone mind telling me what this whole "dip into Barbarian = Pounce" thing is? I may just not have noticed it in my books but i'm still confused.

Terazul

2010-01-15, 06:10 PM

Edit: PS. Someone mind telling me what this whole "dip into Barbarian = Pounce" thing is? I may just not have noticed it in my books but i'm still confused.

Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian from Complete Champion gives Pounce as an ACF.

Mulletmanalive

2010-01-15, 06:15 PM

Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian from Complete Champion gives Pounce as an ACF.

That would explain it. I've read very little of CC because the PrCs were so dire... Reserve feats are pretty good, mind.

katarl

2010-01-15, 06:30 PM

Milskidasith

2010-01-15, 06:53 PM

Reading this class, i'm tempted to play a stygian knife wielding powerful charge specialist...

Or a superior unarmed attack specialist with flying kick.

Celerity seems a bit too powerful, should make it an extra move action or attack at highest base rather than a standard (or you'll see some very broken combos). Maybe tone down the speed strike at level 1, make it more sneak attacky, or if you want to be more unique, make it more powerful, but slap on some situational requirements.

Otherwise, looks very nice, i like to see love for the charging abilities.

Dude, it's not too powerful. It's on a class that requires you to take massive amounts of movement to use the class feature. An extra standard action per round isn't that much, honestly, especially compared to wizards, or just the fact you can't make full attacks and get your damage bonus (without a dip into pounce, which loses you your capstone.)

jiriku

2010-01-15, 07:48 PM

Yeah, at 20th level, celerity is nothing. The spellcasters have been able to do the same thing since 17th/18th level by shapechanging into a choker, and they get spells too.

Perhaps you could add an ability called Speed Leach, whereby you spend a swift action to draw energy from an opponent. If he fails a save, you get a bonus move action and your opponent is staggered for one round. At more powerful levels, you could leach a standard action from your opponent, and he'd be nauseated, or a full-round action, and he'd be dazed.

The Dark Fiddler

2010-01-15, 08:00 PM

...HD size?

Realms of Chaos

2010-01-15, 09:36 PM

Requiring Full movement doesn't seem like that big of a deal. Except in 3 situations.

1. Area effects that halt movement are littering the field.
2. Mooks are waiting everywhere, waiting to make attacks of opportunity.
3. The area is very crampt.

Correct me if I'm wrong but this guy can just run in very small circles (requiring 4 5-foot squares) for most of their movement and use the last of it to reach their enemy.
Even in a worst case scenario, you can run in circles around an enemy, only provoking 1 attack of opportunity unless the enemy has combat reflexes (or, as stated, mooks are waiting for you).

Speaking of attacks of opportunity, there is a single change that I'd make which would make the entire thing more palatable. Keeping with the flavor of "quicker than the eye", I would add that bonus to AC against attacks of opportunity. That would let you use the speedster's mobility to the fullest.

Also, one thing that I find wierd is that a speedster wearing medium armor might only need to move 20 feet to make their speed strike, even at 20th level. I take it that this isn't your intention.

katarl

2010-01-16, 08:05 AM

Yeah, at 20th level, celerity is nothing. The spellcasters have been able to do the same thing since 17th/18th level by shapechanging into a choker, and they get spells too.

I'm most worried about speedsters using magic item activation at this point, i consider the shapechanging into a choker (or for that matter, a spellweaver) to be just a tiny bit cheap, as having a free standard action is much like having a quickened spell every round without the prohibitive level increase.

The wording seems a little vague, you say after or before your turn. Do you mean immediately after or before, or can he take turns out of sequence?

AustontheGreat1

2010-01-16, 06:23 PM

Changed a lot, added a lot. Lots of new speed feats, though some I'm more happy with than others.

Realms of Chaos

2010-01-16, 06:53 PM

Of course, now you have nothing to do at 1st level and you have alot of dead levels aside from that.

Here is what I suggest doing, a fix that will bring this thing up to a playable (just below competative) level.
1. Drop speed strike down to first level as a speedster should have some mode of attack at 1st level.
2. Alter speed strike to read something like the following:

Speed Strike (Ex): A speedster can attack someone while moving at high speeds. Whenever a speedster moves at least 50 feet during his turn, he deals an extra +1d8 damage per 20 feet moved above 30 feet (rounded down) with all attacks until the start of his next turn. Holding a weapon while attacking at these speeds can often be difficult. The speedster must make a strength check, (DC = 12 + 1 for every d6 added to the damage.) or drop his weapon in a square adjacent to the target.

The advantages of using this version are that 1) this reading allows the speedster to gain extra benefits when charging, which seems like a natural thing for speedsters to do and that 2) this allows the speedster to pull off some truly wicked attacks of opportunity if they've been running around.

3. Gran Run as a bonus feat at 1st level. It's flavorful and not too powerful.

4. Switch the benefits of 2nd and 3rd level (thus moving 6th level abilities to 7th level, 10th to 11th, 14th to 15th, and 18th to 19th). There is no good reason for this guy to get evasion after rogues and monks. Also, Evasive Maneuvers seem pretty important considering how many attacks of opportunity he'll provoke.

5. At 5th level, grant the pounce ability, letting this guy make a full attack after charging. It makes sense for this character.

6. At 6th, 10th, 14th, and 18th level, let's give this guy some special options on par with the rogue's special abilities (slippery mind, defensive roll, skill mastery, etc.) A couple ideas for options might be.

Agile Runner: When charging or running, the speedster may make a single 90 degree turn. This ability may be selected multiple times, allowing multiple turns during a charge or run.
Impecable Speed: Once per day, as an immediate action, the speedster may move up to their land speed. If this would bring the speedster out of an attack's reach or range out of a spell's area or range, that attack or spell has a 50% chance of not affecting the speedster. This ability may be selected multiple times, granting additional uses per day.
Unbelievable Speed: A number of times per day equal to the speedster's Dexterity bonus, he can run at ten times his normal speed for 1 round. This ability may be selected multiple times, each time granting additional uses equal to the speedster's Dexterity bonus.
Impact Resistant: As the ability you wrote up. If you choose to make it a special ability, consider replacing it with something that lets you make a single attack while running.
Bonus Feat: the speedster may select a bonus speed feat in place of a special ability.

The Dark Fiddler

2010-01-16, 07:05 PM

...HD size?

This IS fairly important. (And the only thing I could contribute <.<)

Temotei

2010-01-16, 07:11 PM

This IS fairly important. (And the only thing I could contribute <.<)

Assume d8? :smallconfused:

AustontheGreat1

2010-01-16, 07:11 PM

Here is what I suggest doing, a fix that will bring this thing up to a playable (just below competative) level.
1. Drop speed strike down to first level as a speedster should have some mode of attack at 1st level.
2. Alter speed strike to read something like the following:

Speed Strike (Ex): A speedster can attack someone while moving at high speeds. Whenever a speedster moves at least 50 feet during his turn, he deals an extra +1d8 damage per 20 feet moved above 30 feet (rounded down) with all attacks until the start of his next turn. Holding a weapon while attacking at these speeds can often be difficult. The speedster must make a strength check, (DC = 12 + 1 for every d6 added to the damage.) or drop his weapon in a square adjacent to the target.

The advantages of using this version are that 1) this reading allows the speedster to gain extra benefits when charging, which seems like a natural thing for speedsters to do and that 2) this allows the speedster to pull off some truly wicked attacks of opportunity if they've been running around.

Whats the real point of lowering the ability? assuming that you have a base move speed of 30, then you wont be able to gain benefit from it until 4th level. I'm not saying that it isn't a good idea, I just don't understand..

3. Gran Run as a bonus feat at 1st level. It's flavorful and not too powerful.

Considered that, don't really know why I didn't put it.

4. Switch the benefits of 2nd and 3rd level (thus moving 6th level abilities to 7th level, 10th to 11th, 14th to 15th, and 18th to 19th). There is no good reason for this guy to get evasion after rogues and monks. Also, Evasive Maneuvers seem pretty important considering how many attacks of opportunity he'll provoke.

5. At 5th level, grant the pounce ability, letting this guy make a full attack after charging. It makes sense for this character.

6. At 6th, 10th, 14th, and 18th level, let's give this guy some special options on par with the rogue's special abilities (slippery mind, defensive roll, skill mastery, etc.) A couple ideas for options might be.

Agile Runner: When charging or running, the speedster may make a single 90 degree turn. This ability may be selected multiple times, allowing multiple turns during a charge or run.
Impecable Speed: Once per day, as an immediate action, the speedster may move up to their land speed. If this would bring the speedster out of an attack's reach or range out of a spell's area or range, that attack or spell has a 50% chance of not affecting the speedster. This ability may be selected multiple times, granting additional uses per day.
Unbelievable Speed: A number of times per day equal to the speedster's Dexterity bonus, he can run at ten times his normal speed for 1 round. This ability may be selected multiple times, each time granting additional uses equal to the speedster's Dexterity bonus.
Impact Resistant: As the ability you wrote up. If you choose to make it a special ability, consider replacing it with something that lets you make a single attack while running.
Bonus Feat: the speedster may select a bonus speed feat in place of a special ability.

All really good ideas, Im going to make the smart decision and follow your instructions.

Realms of Chaos

2010-01-16, 07:14 PM

The point of lowering the ability is that said ability has been reworded to work with charges. For example, a 1st level human speedster with speed 35 can charge 70 feet before making an attack, gaining +2d8 damage along with the normal attack bonus and AC penalty. Powerful to be sure but almost completely unusable after the first round of combat.

AustontheGreat1

2010-01-16, 07:50 PM

Shyftir

2010-01-16, 08:05 PM

You sure you aren't creating classes for a d20 supers game here?

I was once in a fantasy world/supers game. This would have fit very well.

Siosilvar

2010-01-16, 08:17 PM

________________________________________________
Blur [Speed Feat]

Prerequisites: Speed Bonus +60ft
Benefit: When a speedster runs, he seems to be a blur shooting across the battlefield. At 12th level a speedsterYou gains a percent miss chance against attacks of opportunity from moving into, through, or out of a threatened square. This miss chance is equal to (5 x speed guy class level) your speed bonus.

Since the speed bonus is essentially +5ft per level already.

Milskidasith

2010-01-16, 08:23 PM

Realms of Chaos

2010-01-16, 08:31 PM

AustontheGreat1

2010-01-16, 08:32 PM

This is basically heaven for uberchargers... but I like it. It's very nice. I still don't understand why you lose your weapon when you attack, though, especially because you can easily charge for hundreds of feet with other builds without penalty.

Because your colliding with an opponent at high speeds. Try and hit a mail box from a moving vehicle, its difficult to hold on to, but possible.

Realms of Chaos

2010-01-16, 08:35 PM

Looking at this class, one more thing seems necessary.

Levels 13 and 17 are completely and utterly dead levels. no class features, speed increase, or increases to BAB or saving throws. I recommend selecting two of your speed feats and converting them into class features but that's just me.

AustontheGreat1

2010-01-16, 08:37 PM

You sure you aren't creating classes for a d20 supers game here?

I was once in a fantasy world/supers game. This would have fit very well.

Yes, im obsessed with comic books and the superhero genre. this was just me trying to fulfill my desire to play a speedster in the D20 system. I've yet to find a variant that i like.

Looking at this class, one more thing seems necessary.

Levels 13 and 17 are completely and utterly dead levels. no class features, speed increase, or increases to BAB or saving throws. I recommend selecting two of your speed feats and converting them into class features but that's just me.

good idea

Milskidasith

2010-01-16, 09:36 PM

Congratulations, AustontheGreat.

You have recieved the approval of Milskidasith. As he is one of the better balancers on this board (he sees the big picture and where things fit into it quite well), this is significant.

I'm more suprised I'm "famous" (also, chrome doesn't recognize "suprised" as a word. Huh.)

Anyway, yeah, because of the fact you can lose your weapon, but get a lot of bonus damage on charging, it works out fairly well. Getting pounce means you essentially get to single class, and some of the features (avoiding all AoOs entirely with blur) are a bit powerful, but it's nothing gamebreaking. It could probably use some tweaks, and it probably has more TO potential for charging than other classes (maybe, I don't really study melee builds), but for casual or somewhat optimal play it should be competitive.

AustontheGreat1

2010-01-16, 10:10 PM

I'm more suprised I'm "famous" (also, chrome doesn't recognize "suprised" as a word. Huh.)

Anyway, yeah, because of the fact you can lose your weapon, but get a lot of bonus damage on charging, it works out fairly well. Getting pounce means you essentially get to single class, and some of the features (avoiding all AoOs entirely with blur) are a bit powerful, but it's nothing gamebreaking. It could probably use some tweaks, and it probably has more TO potential for charging than other classes (maybe, I don't really study melee builds), but for casual or somewhat optimal play it should be competitive.

Blur was originally, 2.5 x class level. do you think that would be better?

Temotei

2010-01-16, 10:42 PM

jiriku

2010-01-17, 12:42 AM

Put Bounding Assault and Rapid Blitz on your list of bonus feats. They're not the most optimal, but as extensions of Spring Attack they're natural choices for this class.

Realms of Chaos

2010-01-17, 01:22 AM

I'm more suprised I'm "famous" (also, chrome doesn't recognize "suprised" as a word. Huh.)

I don't know if you're famous or just famous in my eyes but you are exceedingly well at what you do. As said, you do tend to see things in the big picture, looking for builds and loopholes with classes and appraising with great accuracy how worthwhile they are in the great scheme of things.

The reason that I always stop to listen to your opinion, however, is because I've never heard you say anything that I can consider "wrong". You appraise classes against higher standards than me and we look for different things but I've never seen you judge a class and think "no way! That's not right."

You do good work, Milkidasith. Be proud of it.

PS. The word is surprised. :smalltongue:

Temotei

2010-01-17, 01:51 AM

I don't know if you're famous or just famous in my eyes but you are exceedingly well at what you do. As said, you do tend to see things in the big picture, looking for builds and loopholes with classes and appraising with great accuracy how worthwhile they are in the great scheme of things.

The reason that I always stop to listen to your opinion, however, is because I've never heard you say anything that I can consider "wrong". You appraise classes against higher standards than me and we look for different things but I've never seen you judge a class and think "no way! That's not right."

You do good work, Milkidasith. Be proud of it.

PS. The word is surprised. :smalltongue:

Agreed. Your style, Milskidasith, might end up coming off as a bit abrasive in the end, but if it makes the creation better...well...all the better. :smallamused:

On topic: I like it. Bounding Assault and Rapid Blitz would be good ideas to add in as well. Overall, it's a nicely done class, and the concept is cool.

Milskidasith

2010-01-17, 01:56 AM

PS. The word is surprised. :smalltongue:

NOOOOOOOO!

Stupid silent "r"s. Or at least I've never heard it pronounced "sir-prized." It's more like "suh-prized."

Temotei

2010-01-17, 01:57 AM

NOOOOOOOO!

Stupid silent "r"s. Or at least I've never heard it pronounced "sir-prized." It's more like "suh-prized."

I say it "sir-prized." Maybe I'm just weird.

Drackhyo

2010-02-22, 11:31 AM

One of my player is making a catfolk(RoW) gesalt speedster/soulkinfe 10 for my current game. She absolutely LOVED the idea of this class as she wated somthing that fought in melee without spells and that last game we played, she was a pally and felt really let down by her mobility. The only thing I see with this class... I'm using a fix for the soulknife and it gives her a flight speed equal to her land speed +20ft... that gives her a flight speed of 110 feet! YAY racing dragons!

DracoDei

2010-02-22, 01:00 PM

I decided to look at this out of curiosity as to if Wing Dragons could benefit from it.

Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Slight of Hand (Dex), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), and Tumble (Dex).
(4 + Int modifier) ×4 at first level.
For some reason, Perform and Sense Motive seem out of place... I don't see these guys as having social skills, but being more on the athletic side of the rogue-subtypes.

Speed Bonus: When wearing light armor or when unarmored, the speedster gets a bonus to his base land speed as indicated by the speedster class table.

On behalf of my Wing dragons, I ask that you allow twice this boost to also apply to Extraordinary modes of movement that are at least 50% higher than the base land speed, half of it to Extraordinary modes of movement that are at least 10ft slower than base land speed, and the unaltered amount to all other Extraordinary modes of movement. Awakened Purple Worms with this class might then make pretty nasty BBEGs.

Speed Speak: Speedsters have a special language of their own. Speedsters can speak so rapidly that only those as fast as they are can understand.
Unless you annoy the wizard into Permanency-ing Comprehend Languages on himself, or other people into buying Helms of Comprehend Languages and Reading Magic, this is going to come up very rarely. Still, at higher levels that may be a cheaper investment on than everyone dropping the skill points to create an entirely new language to use as a battle-code... this, however is one way, so maybe you get what you pay for.

Speed Strike (Ex): <Snip> The speedster must make a strength check, (DC = 12 + 1 for every d6 added to the damage.) or drop his weapon in a square adjacent to the target.
Well, first off, you have disagreement between d6 and d8.
Secondly, you have just added some M.A.D. to this class... don't know if it is enough to be a problem, but you are going to see them trying to carry at least 2 weapons... also, what about natural weapons/unarmed strikes? Getting declawed the HARD way just for making an attack is no fun no matter HOW you slice it. Third, you need rules for Locked Gauntlets in combination with this. Fourth, maybe you should use the disarm rules (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialAttacks.htm#disarm) since they exist?

Evasion (Ex): Whenever a speedster is subject to an attack that allows a reflex save for half damage, a speedster takes no damage on a successful save. A speedster only gains benefit from this ability when he is wearing light armor or is unarmored.

Bonus Feat: At 3rd level and every 4 levels thereafter a speedster gains a bonus speed feat. The speedster must meet any prerequisites for these feats as normal. In addition to the speed feats, these feats are also available: Agile, Athletic, Bounding Assault, Combat Expertise, Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, Endurance, Improved Initiative, Improved Unarmed Strike Lightning Reflexes, Quick Draw, Rapid Reload, and Weapon Finesse.

Given the extra damage source they have, and their probable AC and HP, the first pick is really not so optional. If you don't take Spring Attack, you are insane. I would give Spring Attack as a specific Bonus feat at 1st or 2nd level... push evasion to third if you have to, but do it.

Also, the tritons and dragons politely ask you to add "Swim-by Attack" and "Fly-by Attack" as allowable substitutes for "Spring Attack"... and I just realized how many damage dice a dragon can rack up with a single level dip into this class... hmmm... maybe leave "Fly-by Attack" off of there as a START on balancing that.

Evasive Maneuvers (Ex): At 2nd level a speedster receives a +1 dodge bonus to his armor class for every 10 feet more than 30 he moves in a round. This increase only applies to any round in which he does not take an attack action. This bonus remains until the beginning of his next turn. A speedster only gains benefit from this ability when he is wearing light armor or is unarmored.

I try to list class abilities in the exact order they first appear on the chart, and ideally they should be alphabetized within levels. That second part is actually more important when making a True Dragon than a class maybe, (since you can get a LOT of abilities per level).

Think Fast (Ex): A Speedster not only moves fast, he thinks fast. At 3rd level a speedster receives a +2 bonus to all will saves vs. mind affecting effects and to all initiative checks. These bonuses increase to +4 at 7th level, +6 at 11th level, +8 at 15th level, and +10 at 19th.

I would ask (as someone who respects mathematics) that you smooth this out so it is +1 per 2 levels after the ability is initially gained, rather than +2 per 4 levels.

I also note that I had a concept for a super whose mind ONLY was accelerated, and he had such an effect going on (ok, so it only applied to people trying to read his mind or control it).

Accelerated Metabolism (Ex): A speedster’s body works on a faster pace than those of others. At 4th level a speedster gains fast healing 1. This healing increases by 1 every 4 levels thereafter, fast healing 2 at 8th level, fast healing 3 at 12th, fast healing 4 at 16th and fast healing 5 at 20th.

The party heal-bot thanks you for saving him a bit of work, but I don't think it is usually going to come up much, except that it causes automatic stabilization.

Alacrity (Ex): When a speedster makes a charge, he can follow with a full attack.

Nice ability, but at the level you grant it, it only helps multiclassers and TWFers.

Special Abilities: On attaining 6th level, and at every four levels thereafter (10th, 14th, and 18th), a rogue gains a special ability of her choice from among the following options.

Replace "Rogue" with "Speedster".

Agile Runner: When charging or running, the speedster may make a single 90 degree turn. This ability may be selected multiple times, allowing multiple turns during a charge or run.

In 3.0 their was a feat for this... don't know if it made the jump to 3.5, but you couldn't stack it... eh, actually I would leave it just as you have it maybe, but also say it stacks with the feat (if it exists).

Impeccable Speed: Once per day, as an immediate action, the speedster may move up to their land speed. If this would bring the speedster out of an attack's reach or range out of a spell's area or range, that attack or spell has a 50% chance of not affecting the speedster. This ability may be selected multiple times, granting additional uses per day.

Nice.

Unbelievable Speed: A number of times per day equal to the speedster's Dexterity bonus, he can run at ten times his normal speed for 1 round. This ability may be selected multiple times, each time granting additional uses equal to the speedster's Dexterity bonus.

You just multiplied his damage by 10 in some cases.

Impact Resistance (Ex): A speedster is highly resistant to damage from high speed impacts. All bludgeoning damage he takes is considered nonlethal. This includes falling damage.

A reasonable ability... *nods* Just for grins, I would allow it to be selected a second time to halve the damage.

Passing Strike (Ex): A speedster can attack enemies along his path of movement. A speedster can make a number of attacks equal to his dexterity modifier against any opponents he moves by during a move action. He can make no more than a single attack against any single opponent during this movement. If the speedster is unsuccessful on this attack, the target may make an attack or opportunity against the speedster as typical for moving out of a threatened square.

"of" not "or"

Bonus Feat: the speedster may select a bonus speed feat in place of a special ability.

You know, when I saw this ability, I thought you were just going to cut-paste the rogue ones.. which would have been bad.

IF anyone has a version of defensive roll that is actually USEFUL, I would put it in here.

Lend Speed (Su): A speedster can temporarily allow another creature to accelerate by lending them some of his own speed. As a standard action, a speedster can grant a creature, +3 on attack rolls, +3 on AC and Reflex, and speed increases 40ft. The effect lasts for as long as the speedster desires it to last (to a maximum of one minute per speedster level.) The speedster gives up a portion of his own speed to grant this effect, however, and remains slowed as per the slow spell for an amount of time equal to the amount of time the target remains hasted. The speedster can use this ability a number of times per day equal to his charisma modifier.

Odd ability, especially since the non-movement bonuses don'
t seem to "come" from anywhere. Also, I would change "an amount of time equal to the amount of time the target remains hasted" to "as long as this effect is in place".

Accelerate (Ex): A speedster can achieve speeds that shouldn’t be normally possible without the aid of magic. Once a day, a speedster can recreate the effects of a time stop spell, though doing so comes at a great cost. For every round beyond the first that the effect lasts, the speedster takes 2 points of constitution damage due to the speedster pushing himself beyond his limits.[QUOTE=AustontheGreat1;7697107]
If you are going to charge him CON to do it, I would let him pick the duration (between 2 and 5 rounds), for one thing taking 8 con damage when you "only" needed 2 rounds worth of actions is not so great.

Celerity (Ex): At 20th level a speedster has realized his full potential. A Speedster gains the ability to, once per round; take an extra standard action, either before or after his other actions in the round. In this manner, a speedster may even take an extra standard action after taking a full-round action during a single round.

This? This is a CAPSTONE. I like it, and even if it turns out to be over powered, I would just limit it to a certain number of times per day, rather than changing it to something else.

AustontheGreat1

2010-02-22, 05:31 PM

For some reason, Perform and Sense Motive seem out of place... I don't see these guys as having social skills, but being more on the athletic side of the rogue-subtypes.

YOUR RIGHT, FIXED

On behalf of my Wing dragons, I ask that you allow twice this boost to also apply to Extraordinary modes of movement that are at least 50% higher than the base land speed, half of it to Extraordinary modes of movement that are at least 10ft slower than base land speed, and the unaltered amount to all other Extraordinary modes of movement. Awakened Purple Worms with this class might then make pretty nasty BBEGs.

UHHH...WHAT? I GET IT YOU WANT TO BE ABLE TO APPLY HALF OF THE BONUS TO FLY SPEEDS OR WHATEVER. COOL. BUT THAT SEEMS AWKWARD AND COMPLICATED. TELL YOU WHAT, I'M LAZY AND YOUR A LOT SMARTER THAN ME SO YOU TYPE IT UP AND I'LL COPY IT INTO THERE.

Given the extra damage source they have, and their probable AC and HP, the first pick is really not so optional. If you don't take Spring Attack, you are insane. I would give Spring Attack as a specific Bonus feat at 1st or 2nd level... push evasion to third if you have to, but do it.

I'LL DO IT.

I would ask (as someone who respects mathematics) that you smooth this out so it is +1 per 2 levels after the ability is initially gained, rather than +2 per 4 levels.

I WOULD BUT...EH.

Accelerate (Ex): A speedster can achieve speeds that shouldn’t be normally possible without the aid of magic. Once a day, a speedster can recreate the effects of a time stop spell, though doing so comes at a great cost. For every round beyond the first that the effect lasts, the speedster takes 2 points of constitution damage due to the speedster pushing himself beyond his limits.

THAT WAS THE INTENT BUT I SUCK AT WRITING STUFF SO IT CAME OUT STUPID

I wasn't really expecting to wow anyone, I just really like speedsters from the comic genre and I wanted to try and do something like that in the d&d world.

If you want to use it for you wing dragons, feel free to make any adjustments to it you like. It's now public property.

GoC

2010-02-22, 07:54 PM

Accelerate is completely broken.
It allows the speedster to take four or five rounds worth of action in a single turn, allowing the instant killing via multiple full-attacks of anything, including BBEGs!
I'm not sure what you'll want to replace it with but as it stands...

DracoDei

2010-02-22, 08:20 PM

You can't attack while in Time Stop, so as written in isn't nearly so bad.

GoC

2010-02-22, 08:42 PM

You can't attack while in Time Stop, so as written in isn't nearly so bad.
That was the previous wording.
This is the new one:

Accelerate (Ex): A speedster can achieve speeds that shouldn’t be normally possible without the aid of magic. For a number of rounds per day equal to the speedsters dexterity modifier the speedster may accelerate himself, granting himself an extra round, though doing so pushes the speedster beyond his normal limits. For every round beyond the first that the effect lasts, the speedster takes 2 points of constitution damage due to the speedster pushing himself beyond his physical limits.

DracoDei

2010-02-22, 08:46 PM

Ah, I see... yes, that is over powered.

Wreckingrocc

2010-02-22, 09:57 PM

Level 20 Human Speedster
Quick Trait

30 Base Land Speed
+5 Quick
+100 Class
135 Land Speed
Impeccable Speed
Impeccable Speed
Impeccable Speed
Unbelievable Speed
Too Fast to See
Momentous Charge
Two Weapon Fighting
Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Greater Two Weapon Fighting

Use Unbelievable Speed, landspeed becomes 1350.
Use Celerity's extra standard action to take a move action, move 1350 feet.
Use Impeccable Speed, move 1350 feet.
Use Impeccable Speed, move 1350 feet.
Use Impeccable Speed, move 1350 feet.
Charge, move 2700 feet, make a full attack.
You moved 8100 feet this round, so you get 403d8 additional damage on each attack until the start of your next turn.
Make 6 attacks against your opponent.
You have combat advantage due to invisibility. This doesn't matter much, but it's still notable.
Because you're charging you deal double damage. The Speed Strike damage is untyped, so this also gets doubled (correct me if I'm wrong). This means each landed attack from your main hand does 2 x (Str mod + Wpn Dmg + Enh Bonus) + 806d8 damage; off hand should be roughly the same, but full strength modifier instead of double. If all attacks land, that's 4836d8 damage. This is almost not optimized at all, and, aside from Quick and the Two Weapon Fighting Chain, everything is from this class and its bonus feats alone.

With a single Expeditious Retreat spell, add 180d8 damage to each attack. With that, this full attack could deal 5556d8 damage.

This doesn't even make use of Acceleration.

With evasive maneuvers, this also increases Armor Class by roughly 1167.

I think something needs to change.

DracoDei

2010-02-22, 10:00 PM

Cap it at (Class level)d8 per attack? Maybe half that, rounded up?

Wreckingrocc

2010-02-22, 10:02 PM

My point still stands; most of those movements aren't charges, either. You can run back and forth.

Also, you can use your full action to run instead, granting 5x1350 movement, and use your standard action from celerity to attack. Now you don't need to charge.

EDIT: Damn, Edit ninja'd.

Yes, cap it. :P Also cap the AC bonus.

I also think Unbelievable Speed shouldn't be 10x. Maybe 2x, maximum, and usable 1/day.

Devigod

2010-02-22, 10:25 PM

Just fix give them skirmish instead. I would also suggest minimizing the multiple round nonsense. It's a capstone ability on some classes, and a 9th level spell in order to get extra actions of any kind, and anybody (in this class) with a few ranks in hide will be a little too good at hitting and running.

Zexion

2010-02-22, 11:55 PM

Has anyone done a superhero d20? I think someone came up with a mechanic a couple of years ago on this forum, but searches don't turn up anything...

DracoDei

2010-02-23, 12:17 AM

How are you doing the search? I think the forum search may still be disabled (at least past a certain point back?)...
Try google "site:www.giantitp.com <Search String>"

Without the quotes and with the stuff in the brackets (and the brackets themselves) replaced with what you are looking for.

AustontheGreat1

2010-02-23, 01:46 AM

From what I'm seeing, some people think this class has some potential but I am nowhere rules savvy enough to fix it properly.

If you guys want to see be something usable, I recommend you fixing it it doesn't matter to me. When I first made this thing, D&D was the only RPG I had played. I have since started playing with the Heroes System.

So if you want this to be anything worth while, you should scrap this and rewrite it so that it works. because ' don't know how.

Zexion

2010-02-23, 10:34 PM

Well, that is probably why the searches don't turn up anything!

Zexion

2010-02-23, 11:04 PM

Actually, the search function seems to be working for me now. I'm now going to search the Web for the system.

Zexion

2010-02-23, 11:07 PM

http://mindseye_x.tripod.com/mepd20sh.PDF
It is just as good as I remember... better actually!

Rauthiss

2010-03-06, 12:00 PM

For the speed feat blur, it indicates that the miss chance is granted when the speedster runs. Is this any movement, or only when the speedster specifically takes the run action?

Zeta Kai

2010-03-06, 12:12 PM

http://mindseye_x.tripod.com/mepd20sh.PDF
It is just as good as I remember... better actually!

Whoever wrote those rules didn't seem to understand how the basics of the D20 system work. Just a glance at the BAB & save progressions of the classes are laughable. The numbers for much of the text seem to be chosen at random, without any underlying logic or scheme. In short, I couldn't use any of it without editing to the point of rewriting. I've seen worse homebrew, but that crunch is very, very messy.

Apropos

2010-03-08, 07:51 PM