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Gamerlord
2010-01-15, 03:21 PM
How good is this campaign setting? I want to grab the 3.5 version because I heard the 4e version sucks, anyway, does it have any bonus classes?Feats?Races?Deities?

How good is the campaign setting in general?

Morty
2010-01-15, 03:23 PM
It's good, provided you enjoy classic, heroic fantasy settings and don't mind a large amount of high-level NPCs. It has a huge unique pantheon and a lot of unique races, feats etc. especially if you count in additional splatbooks. Its main selling point is that it's huge and rich, so that there's always something to do and somewhere to go for the PCs.

Gamerlord
2010-01-15, 03:24 PM
Sweet, not only will I get a new campaign setting, I will have loads of stuff to steal for my homebrew campaign settings.

Optimystik
2010-01-15, 03:33 PM
The 4e version is fine. There's a lot of Internet Backdraft surrounding the changes because WotC tossed the status quo out on its ear, but that's necessary to keep things fresh. For instance, the very problem that Morty mentioned (i.e. a glut of high-level NPCs) was corrected rather violently in 4e, and I think the setting has improved as a result.

Morty
2010-01-15, 03:34 PM
The problem people have with 4ed FR is that it was designed for the people who didn't like FR in 3rd edition. So the people who did like the setting were annoyed by the massive changes. It might not be a bad setting, but it's no longer Forgotten Realms. At least that's what I think. I haven't been following 4ed FR very closely. It's also a generalization, of course.

Harperfan7
2010-01-15, 04:27 PM
Forgotten realms is great. It has everything you need and can accommodate pretty much any character. There's always something for your characters to do, from 1st-40th (hell, possibly higher).

As people have said, there are a lot of high/epic level people running around being pretty much invincible, but you could probably get to epic levels without ever meeting them.

Forgotten realms is easily my favorite setting, I just wish Trithereon were in it.

Starscream
2010-01-15, 04:34 PM
I love FR. It has lots of fun goodies and great fluff. Highly recommended.

As for the 4E version, I can't really weigh in with much because I only paged through it a few times. It's clearly very different. Which is not the same as bad (it could be great for all I know), but there's a reason the classics are classics.

Devils_Advocate
2010-01-15, 07:02 PM
4E Forgotten Realms seems to be the same setting as 3E Forgotten Realms in much the same sense that the early 21st century United States is the same setting as the early 19th century United States. I.e., not really, because it's hundreds of years later and more has changed than stayed the same.

They seem to have made a conscious decision not to support settings with loads of high-powered magic all over the place in 4E. And that's exactly what FR was, so the old FR needed to die. Why they couldn't have designed a system to support a wide variety of highly different settings I don't know, but it's pretty obvious that they didn't. Given that, the choice was between pushing a big ol' reset button and not having a 4E Forgotten Realms at all. They decided to go with the former.

Touchy
2010-01-15, 07:19 PM
4E Forgotten Realms seems to be the same setting as 3E Forgotten Realms in much the same sense that the early 21st century United States is the same setting as the early 19th century United States. I.e., not really, because it's hundreds of years later and more has changed than stayed the same.

They seem to have made a conscious decision not to support settings with loads of high-powered magic all over the place in 4E. And that's exactly what FR was, so the old FR needed to die. Why they couldn't have designed a system to support a wide variety of highly different settings I don't know, but it's pretty obvious that they didn't. Given that, the choice was between pushing a big ol' reset button and not having a 4E Forgotten Realms at all. They decided to go with the former.
Because 4e is not, and never will be 3(.5)e.
All the editions are different, with different ideas in mind.
4e was hyper-focused on combat and teamwork.
If you don't like 4e, try to do something to make 5e different, because hating on 4e doesn't help at all for you cause.

Runestar
2010-01-15, 07:21 PM
They seem to have made a conscious decision not to support settings with loads of high-powered magic all over the place in 4E.

4e couldn't really support a high-magic setting anyways.

Anyways, the 3.5 setting is really rich (and usually compatible with 2e stuff, which the wotc website has quite a few for download).

Optimystik
2010-01-15, 07:34 PM
As people have said, there are a lot of high/epic level people running around being pretty much invincible, but you could probably get to epic levels without ever meeting them.

In the setting as written, that's not very likely. The biggest difference between FR and other settings is how directly the deities meddle with everything - sponsoring Chosen, stewarding entire species of creatures and monsters under their care, and constantly squabbling over portfolios and worshipers (To Ao's indifference.)

In the process of getting to Epic levels, you're bound to cross paths with something (or someone) that is very special to one or more of them - that, or be granted such power from one of them directly, like Cadderly was. Expecting to attain such levels of power without meeting them or their agents is nigh impossible.


They seem to have made a conscious decision not to support settings with loads of high-powered magic all over the place in 4E. And that's exactly what FR was, so the old FR needed to die. Why they couldn't have designed a system to support a wide variety of highly different settings I don't know, but it's pretty obvious that they didn't. Given that, the choice was between pushing a big ol' reset button and not having a 4E Forgotten Realms at all. They decided to go with the former.

Your post seems a tad misleading to me. 4e is still very much "high magic all over the place" - the paragon paths and epic destinies (not to mention rituals) are proof of that - the difference is that now that the world has been reset, that magic can actually be in the hands of the PCs instead of the DM,

The problem I had with FR was how hamstrung being a high level made you. The Simbul, Elminster, Khelben, Laeral, Amlaruil, Fzoul, Talatha... all very high-level (epic in some cases) personages, who whiled their days away either doing nothing, or doing tasks of such universally generic significance that they had no real effect on anyone's daily life. Talatha is CR 24, but spent her days wandering around teaching Cantrips 101. Elminster battled legions of demons behind the scenes, who never actually had a prayer of doing anything to affect the material plane anyway. And so on.

4e thankfully swept all these sacred cows under the rug where they belong. Now it's much easier for PCs to be the stars of the show, without niggling questions like "why doesn't Khelben just find the bloody mythal himself?"

Runestar
2010-01-15, 07:42 PM
4e is still very much "high magic all over the place" - the paragon paths and epic destinies (not to mention rituals) are proof of that

You call that high magic? :smalleek:

Optimystik
2010-01-15, 07:59 PM
You call that high magic? :smalleek:

Transforming into a living spell? Stepping outside reality to keep balance over the planes? Assassinating gods who step above their station? Sounds like high magic to me.

Duos Greanleef
2010-01-15, 08:10 PM
I like the lack of Uber NPCs in FR: 4E.
It makes me feel more heroic, more important. I mean, without Elminster and Storm Silverhand running around, who is there to stop me from taking over the world? Only the other organizations hells-bent on doing so. In which case they stop being a threat and start being competition... which is more fun anyway.:smallamused:

Harperfan7
2010-01-15, 08:15 PM
In the setting as written, that's not very likely. The biggest difference between FR and other settings is how directly the deities meddle with everything - sponsoring Chosen, stewarding entire species of creatures and monsters under their care, and constantly squabbling over portfolios and worshipers (To Ao's indifference.)

In the process of getting to Epic levels, you're bound to cross paths with something (or someone) that is very special to one or more of them - that, or be granted such power from one of them directly, like Cadderly was. Expecting to attain such levels of power without meeting them or their agents is nigh impossible.

"Expecting to attain such levels of power without meeting them or their agents is nigh impossible"

I dunno man, there's no actual stated rule saying so. Sure, it might happen, but it doesn't have to.

Optimystik
2010-01-15, 08:28 PM
I dunno man, there's no actual stated rule saying so. Sure, it might happen, but it doesn't have to.

Actually there is: (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineRanksAndPowers.htm#portfolioSense)


Portfolio Sense

Demigods have a limited ability to sense events involving their portfolios. They automatically sense any event that involves one thousand or more people. The ability is limited to the present. Lesser deities automatically sense any event that involves their portfolios and affects five hundred or more people. Intermediate deities automatically sense any event that involves their portfolios, regardless of the number of people involved. In addition, their senses extend one week into the past for every divine rank they have. Greater deities automatically sense any event that involves their portfolios, regardless of the number of people involved. In addition, their senses extend one week into the past and one week into the future for every divine rank they have. When a deity senses an event, it merely knows that the event is occurring and where it is. The deity receives no sensory information about the event. Once a deity notices an event, it can use its remote sensing power to perceive the event.

What you're arguing is that a mortal can reach epic level without doing something that doesn't affect the portfolio of just one of Toril's deities' in some way... impossible.

You could further argue that they just don't care about the activities of epic-level mortals... equally impossible.

So without ignorance or apathy... that leaves stupidity. They could just blithely ignore you as you ascend to power, slaying creatures sacred to them for experience and toppling their Chosen when they come after you.

But that is a failing of FR in general. In Eberron, the deities never get involved to begin with; therefore, them leaving you alone is expected, rather than an oversight. Furthermore, the highest NPCS are in the 12-15 range, rather than well past 20 - so the chances that they actually need your ragtag band of heroes is much higher, and your participation in the game world suddenly makes sense.

Mando Knight
2010-01-15, 09:21 PM
You call that high magic? :smalleek:

It's high magic, not H4X magic. In a high-but-not-H4X magic world, magic is everywhere and is quite powerful when used correctly, but many beings can resist it and it isn't feasible to use wizards as your sole artillery when the power of badassery and training can allow the guy with a bow to kill off as many enemy soldiers, with out the distinct... stench that arcane power leaves behind.