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Rithaniel
2010-01-16, 05:16 PM
Martial Disciple
For your entire life, you have studied the fighting ways of the world, and have devoted yourself to mastering a particular discipline of combat. This has led you to become what you are today.
Prerequisites: Initiator level 1st, Wis 13
Benefit: Select a single discipline that you do not already have access to. You gain access to this discipline and all initiator classes you have levels in, are treated as granting access to it (still conforming to whatever rules that particular class may have about maneuvers).

Thrice Dead Cat
2010-01-16, 06:28 PM
I feel like this should have a separate prerequisite out side of "level 1 only." As is, the feat itself is fine. Tome of Battle is wonderful, due to its options. Giving people more options is fine to me.

DragoonWraith
2010-01-16, 11:33 PM
Actually, I think this should not only not have a "level 1 only" pre-requisite (I mean, you can't start training in a discipline later?), I think it should be something you can take more than once. I mean, in some cases (Crusader) it's pretty meaningful to get an extra discipline, but the returns on more disciplines to choose from with the same number of maneuvers diminishes pretty quickly. Once you get past, really, like four disciplines, it's not really that important. Simply spending a feat slot on it is cost enough, I think.

Hadrian_Emrys
2010-01-16, 11:38 PM
... A Warblade with full access to Devoted Spirit may not be a primary caster, but they sure as hades would be as close to unkillable as possible for a frontliner. :smalleek:

Thrice Dead Cat
2010-01-16, 11:42 PM
Actually, I think this should not only not have a "level 1 only" pre-requisite (I mean, you can't start training in a discipline later?), I think it should be something you can take more than once. I mean, in some cases (Crusader) it's pretty meaningful to get an extra discipline, but the returns on more disciplines to choose from with the same number of maneuvers diminishes pretty quickly. Once you get past, really, like four disciplines, it's not really that important. Simply spending a feat slot on it is cost enough, I think.

Yes, yes you can. Look at every Fighter 2/Warblade X. You most certainly can pick up a new discipline later.

Sure, someone may have studied under the Host of Seven Stars (group of Crusaders), but, in your travels, suddenly, he comes across a rogue Black hand disciple (Generic Swordsage with obvious focus). Intrigued, the first asks the latter about the lore and techniques of just his particular style, eventually finding it through divine inspiration.

DragoonWraith
2010-01-17, 12:40 AM
... A Warblade with full access to Devoted Spirit may not be a primary caster, but they sure as hades would be as close to unkillable as possible for a frontliner. :smalleek:
Erm... well. Yeah, that's kind of true-ish. Devoted Spirit is notably quite a bit better than the other Disciplines, to make up for the Crusader's lack of options. That is kind of awkward...


Yes, yes you can. Look at every Fighter 2/Warblade X. You most certainly can pick up a new discipline later.

Sure, someone may have studied under the Host of Seven Stars (group of Crusaders), but, in your travels, suddenly, he comes across a rogue Black hand disciple (Generic Swordsage with obvious focus). Intrigued, the first asks the latter about the lore and techniques of just his particular style, eventually finding it through divine inspiration.
Right, that's what I meant, that's why I suggested that he change the requirements to eliminate the "1st level only" bit.

Draz74
2010-01-17, 12:45 AM
I have several Warblade character concepts who would take this in a heartbeat for Setting Sun ...

And I think a Crusader who picks up Iron Heart might be more durable than a Warblade who picks up Devoted Spirit. :smallsmile:

Hadrian_Emrys
2010-01-17, 02:34 AM
I have several Warblade character concepts who would take this in a heartbeat for Setting Sun ...

And I think a Crusader who picks up Iron Heart might be more durable than a Warblade who picks up Devoted Spirit. :smallsmile:

O_o Uhh... Immortal Fortitude + Stance of Alacrity and Strike of Righteous Vitality spammed every round sounds pretty much better than anything a Crusader could pull off. Hell, bust out an Adaptive Style shuffle every time you have to blow a swift on resetting 'IF' and there is very little chance of being killed by anything due to counters and IHS pretty much covering every possible alternate form of fatal harm.

Temotei
2010-01-17, 03:03 AM
Drop the 1st level only requirement. That's my suggestion, as it has been suggested by others as well.

Perhaps, if you really want a prerequisite, have Int 13 or something. Not that that puts off warblades. :smallamused:

DragoonWraith
2010-01-17, 10:43 AM
Actually, Wis 13 might be good. Figure Swordsages are helped the least by this anyway.

Thrice Dead Cat
2010-01-17, 10:54 AM
Right, that's what I meant, that's why I suggested that he change the requirements to eliminate the "1st level only" bit.

Ah, I apologize. For some reason, I read it as you saying to keep the level one requirement. My bad.

Rithaniel
2010-01-17, 12:31 PM
Alright, removed the first level only requirement, and added Wisdom 13. Only problem I think there might be with that, is that it's potentially inviting a bit of M.A.D.

Is that really a problem? Or am I just thinking too much?

pyrefiend
2010-01-17, 02:22 PM
Alright, removed the first level only requirement, and added Wisdom 13. Only problem I think there might be with that, is that it's potentially inviting a bit of M.A.D.

Is that really a problem? Or am I just thinking too much?

No way, the Wis requirement actually helps to balance it a lot. Swordsages derive the least benefit from the feat, and acquire it most easily. Warblades get the most out of it, but must have a 13 in an ability they wouldn't normally use. Seems perfect to me.

Thrice Dead Cat
2010-01-17, 03:17 PM
I have to disagree, personally. Certainly, Swordsage benefit the least from it, but I'm still a big fan of dumping Wis. On the lower end of PB, 5 points can hurt. I'd rather see an IL requirement on it than an ability score one, but that may just be me.

Lapak
2010-01-17, 03:50 PM
I have to disagree, personally. Certainly, Swordsage benefit the least from it, but I'm still a big fan of dumping Wis. On the lower end of PB, 5 points can hurt. I'd rather see an IL requirement on it than an ability score one, but that may just be me.I think that the problem you're expressing is the point of the feat: you can have it, but for any non-WIS-based class it carries an extremely significant cost. Given how powerful it potentially is (based on the discussions about Warblades and Crusaders above) that's a good thing.

Rithaniel
2010-01-17, 05:43 PM
Hmmm, well, since the consensus seems to be that the Wisdom requirement helps it out enough to call it balanced. I'll cristen this read to use.