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Maximum Zersk
2010-01-17, 12:15 AM
"Listen carefully, young acolyte. All ores possess the metal spirit. All ores possess the desire for life. All ores possess the desire for freedom. But all ores dream the rock-dream, the unfire-dream. It is our calling, to set free the metal spirit trapped within the ore, and bring it to transcendent glory in the machine form, so that it might move and work and live and glow and change. Liberation of the spirit from the cold, unfeeling matter of the earth! Birthed into new life as a machine, not as some unthinking, unfeeling rock. What is our mission? To give life. What are our tools? Fire and coal and steam and water. Who do we serve? The ore, boy, the ore. The ore, and the spirit it contains. Remember my words, acolyte."
---High Priest Soterion, to an acolyte


http://i948.photobucket.com/albums/ad326/finn_de_siecle/worldbuildingflat2-1.jpg

Welcome to the Giant in the Playground Worldbuilding Project!

Here, us Playgrounders are making a Conworld (Constructed World) for fun. No other reason then that. Anyone can join if they want, there's no restrictions.

Now, understand that this World isn't going to be made for roleplaying. So there isn't any restrictions besides the Willing Suspension of Disbelief. And even then, that can go to hell if the idea works. It's our world!

Currently, the idea of the world is such:

The world is a sort of Clockpunk/Steampunk/Alchemypunk, which we dub as Gearchemypunk. It is ruled by three races. The Humans, the gnomes, and the crocadilian Sharlaq.

The humans are the aggresive ones, warlike and violent. Yet they are honourable and courageous. The humans seem to have a strange connection to magic.

The gnomes are the progressive ones, industrious and masters of the machine. They rule the skies from their floating cities, ready to strike when needed.

The Sharlaq are the traditional ones, peaceful and quiet. They work the farms and orchards all day. Yet at the same time, they are strong and steadfast in their beliefs.

Now, in general, this is a broad introduction. There are differences within the races, and nations. This, though, will give a good example of the world we are building.

While we do work on a whole variety of areas, we generally focus on one thing at a time. What we are working on at the time will be posted here.


Currently, we are working on:
Cultural Stuff

Remember, anyone is allowed to contribute, and there's no such thing as a stupid idea, only a stupid person giving the idea. :smallwink:

With that said, roll up your sleeves, 'cause we've got some Conworlding to do.

Here is the accompanying Language Thread. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=150639)
And here's the wiki! (http://gitpworld.wikia.com/wiki/GitP_Conworld_Wiki)
Title page by Soterion.

Echowinds
2010-01-17, 12:23 AM
World building without the limits of D&D rules may indeed appeal to people that have an interest in these sort of things but have little to no knowledge of campaign rules.

So I think this can be fun.

Darklord Bright
2010-01-17, 12:24 AM
I worldbuild for absolutely no reason a lot, so this might be interesting.

Yiuel
2010-01-17, 12:31 AM
I worldbuild for absolutely no reason a lot, so this might be interesting.

So do I, I have two on my shelves sleeping slowly. One being country with an especially huge city (dwarfing Tokyo in size, for what's worth), the other being a full-fledged world.

But I'd be interested :)

Dallas-Dakota
2010-01-17, 05:17 AM
I'd certainly be most interested!

Darklord Bright
2010-01-17, 05:31 AM
I particularily like mapping - so if you want me to, say, draw up a map and have people take it and develop it into something, that's an option. Like adding borders and locations and stuff. Probably would be a kinda backwards way if doing things though.

Athaniar
2010-01-17, 08:47 AM
Hourglass of Zihaja isn't made specifically for a campaign, although it is made to comply with D&D rules. This project does sound interesting, however. I like to create stuff. I don't have a real speciality, but I could do cosmology, races, organizations, and stuff like that.

cycoris
2010-01-17, 01:25 PM
I'm very interested too.

I'm willing to help If I have time. I'd probably do best working on the conlang, since I have some background in linguistics in addition to being trilingual.

Maximum Zersk
2010-01-17, 04:43 PM
Awesomeness!

@ Darklord and Yiuel: Yeah, same. I got this idea while working on my conworld. I was thinking, "What if the playground got together and made a conworld?" Also, Darklord, we'll work on the map when the time comes, but thank you for the offer.

@ Cycoris: Sweet, thanks! I would work on a conlang, but I haven't really finished one, so it may accidently come out as a relexe or a sink basin.

@ Everyone else: Thank you for offering to work on it. This is gonna be awesome. And you can still join up after this if you want, there's no deadline to sign up, of course.

So, the first order of business, scifi, or fantasy?

Zarah
2010-01-17, 05:15 PM
Well, if we go with sci-fi, then we'd have to tackle the whole idea of terraforming and its role in said conculture. Then we'd have to come up with other values for conmoisture, conterrain and finally, conair.

http://fanboyz.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/con-air.bmp

....Sorry.


Anyway, I'm definitely intrigued by the idea as well. I've been an avid worldbuilder for quite some time, and I'd love to help out with something like this. I would probably focus most on the cosmology, races and maybe culture/politics, but I'll be like Lord Xavius and say I don't really have any specialization.

As for the business end of my post, well, I vote for a fantasy setting.

Dallas-Dakota
2010-01-17, 05:28 PM
I can help with the mapmaking as well.

I'l probably help a bit with the conlang(s)


Possibly write stuffs(short stories and such) for mythology, etc.

Probably stuffs with politics/religions. But we're going to have to not do religion/politics/be very carefull with it/or go off-site.

My vote goes to fantasy as well.

Also, no elves(dunno bout dwarves)?,they've been pretty done and I think atleast one variation of them is in most fantasy worlds.

Maximum Zersk
2010-01-17, 05:55 PM
I can help with the mapmaking as well.

I'l probably help a bit with the conlang(s)


Possibly write stuffs(short stories and such) for mythology, etc.

Probably stuffs with politics/religions. But we're going to have to not do religion/politics/be very carefull with it/or go off-site.

My vote goes to fantasy as well.

Also, no elves(dunno bout dwarves)?,they've been pretty done and I think atleast one variation of them is in most fantasy worlds.

I full-heartedly agree about the elves. Elves are cool and all, but really, one of the few people who did it right was (who else) J.R.R.Tolkien.So yeah, no elves.

And about the religion/politics, as far as I know, it's fine, as long as we're not talking about real religion/politics.

EDIT: @Zarah: LOLORZMAFLAN!!! :smallbiggrin:

Kurien
2010-01-17, 06:23 PM
One vote for developing technology/similar to early renaissance/low fantasy. Blackpowder, primitive handcannons and smoothbore matchlocks?

And there simply must be an abundance of megafauna, like large quadrapedal herbivores!

littlebottom
2010-01-17, 07:28 PM
reporting for duty! this should be fun!

as for general theme, i would like a fantasy + sci-fi, possibly steam punk... that might sound confusing, but what i mean, is a point where technology is around and its either A: in early stages of development or B: the world has been torn between technology and magic, where there are those who use magic, who object against technology and vice versa (then the crazy scientists mixing the 2 in secret)

blah, sorry, im talking crazy ignore me:smallredface:

Maximum Zersk
2010-01-17, 07:48 PM
One vote for developing technology/similar to early renaissance/low fantasy. Blackpowder, primitive handcannons and smoothbore matchlocks?

And there simply must be an abundance of megafauna, like large quadrapedal herbivores!

Large Quadrupedal Herbivores. Because you can never have enough of them.


reporting for duty! this should be fun!

as for general theme, i would like a fantasy + sci-fi, possibly steam punk... that might sound confusing, but what i mean, is a point where technology is around and its either A: in early stages of development or B: the world has been torn between technology and magic, where there are those who use magic, who object against technology and vice versa (then the crazy scientists mixing the 2 in secret)

blah, sorry, im talking crazy ignore me:smallredface:

Welcome aboard, soldier. :smalltongue:

Interesting. Steampunk is always fun. But maybe something a bit lighter tech.

So, right now, we have a general agreement on fantasy, with some suggestions of steampunk fantasy, and early rennaissance. I would go for something in the middle: Clockpunk.

Imagine, the world's machines running on gears and clockwork. It's my favourite Punkpunk setting.

So, what do the rest of you guys think?

Kurien
2010-01-17, 09:18 PM
Needs moar dinosaurs.

Zarah
2010-01-17, 09:28 PM
I like steampunk/clockwork settings too, but allow me to be the first to add a caveat. If we do go with steampunk or clockwork technology, then we need to ready some hand-waves in order to explain how things work or it'll turn into a massive headache very, very quickly. Believe me, I know from experience. Trying to explain how steampunk spaceships work without magic is a recipe for insanity. :smalltongue:

Maximum Zersk
2010-01-17, 09:30 PM
Well, maybe less steampunk/clockpunk, more as just the general tech level and less the entire theme of the world.

Still, it WOULD give us an excuse to make primitive airships. :smalltongue:

Kurien
2010-01-17, 09:57 PM
But how would they isolate the helium/hydrogen necessary to make a lighter-than air aircraft?

And I clarify, the world should have large dinosaur-like creatures, some of which are used as mounts. We should also include creatures the size of the Colossi from Shadow of the Colossus. :smallbiggrin:

A wheellock gun (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheel_lock) is a real firearm device that used clockworks to strike a flint to ingite the powder. It could be easily included.

Maximum Zersk
2010-01-17, 10:22 PM
But how would they isolate the helium/hydrogen necessary to make a lighter-than air aircraft?

And I clarify, the world should have large dinosaur-like creatures, some of which are used as mounts. We should also include creatures the size of the Colossi from Shadow of the Colossus. :smallbiggrin:

A wheellock gun (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheel_lock) is a real firearm device that used clockworks to strike a flint to ingite the powder. It could be easily included.

Well, I guess unless we figure that out, it'll be put to the side.

Dinosaurs... while they ARE awesome, it all depends on how they fit into the world. What I mean by that is, well, right now, we have no general reason why dinosaurs would still be on the planet. We'll also put that to the side, until we get to the Fauna, at least. Is it okay with you?

The wheelock gun seems to fit, so sure.

Now, currently we have a Steampunk/Clockpunk fantasy world. Anyone else has any comments or suggestions?

Dallas-Dakota
2010-01-18, 12:39 AM
Make it clockpunk/ and chemicalsteampunk? This way we still get airships and such, but not really that advanced steampunk?

A other option would be to make steampunk just rarer.

Soterion
2010-01-18, 12:49 AM
Ooooh: alchemypunk. Think about it. Clockpunk is based on the idea that the designs of Leonardo et al were built and actually worked, steampunk is the extension of steam technology beyond the logical limits. Alchemypunk: where the works of Paracelsus and Nicholas Flamel actually work. And then we get "flammable air" (hydrogen) for use in our airships.

(Paracelsus discovered hydrogen, by the way.)

Szilard
2010-01-18, 12:53 AM
Excuse me, but what exactly is a "conworld"?

Yiuel
2010-01-18, 12:58 AM
Excuse me, but what exactly is a "conworld"?

Constructed world. A world you imagine, basically.

Soterion
2010-01-18, 01:00 AM
Alpharius 9, Conworld of the Federation: where, by the early years of the twenty-third century, the burgeoning Geekstorm had centered its annual, biannual, and quadriannual celebrations of its various fandoms. The conventions held on Alpharius 9 last now, not for a few days, but months at a time, as millions upon millions of nerds pour through SanDiegoComicCity's Central Convention and Gaming Matrix to partake of the sweet, geeky nectar therein. Visitors to the planet can rest assured that the damages from the Trekker/Trekkie civil wars of 2678 have been fully repaired, and the streets are once again safe to walk down while dressed as a Sailor Senshi. Alpharius 9: Drink And Enjoy!

Szilard
2010-01-18, 01:00 AM
Okay. I got that you made up a world, but I had no idea why there was a con thrown infront of it. Thanks.

Anyway, I agree, there should be dinosaurs.

Yiuel
2010-01-18, 01:03 AM
So, the first order of business, scifi, or fantasy?

It could go either way, they also aren't mutually exclusive. Scifi tends to be a reflexion on what science can bring on us, while fantasy is playing with the metaphysics of the world. So both could be done in the same conworld.

(Also, I have background in linguistics, lots of linguistics, and urbanism, especially transportation schemes. May help a lot.)

Maximum Zersk
2010-01-18, 01:07 AM
Make it clockpunk/ and chemicalsteampunk? This way we still get airships and such, but not really that advanced steampunk?
A other option would be to make steampunk just rarer.

Ooooh: alchemypunk. Think about it. Clockpunk is based on the idea that the designs of Leonardo et al were built and actually worked, steampunk is the extension of steam technology beyond the logical limits. Alchemypunk: where the works of Paracelsus and Nicholas Flamel actually work. And then we get "flammable air" (hydrogen) for use in our airships.

(Paracelsus discovered hydrogen, by the way.)

Interesting ideas. Chemical Steampunk/Alchemypunk Especially. So, that would mean we'd have Clockpunk/Steampunk/Alechemypunk. Huh.



Alpharius 9, Conworld of the Federation: where, by the early years of the twenty-third century, the burgeoning Geekstorm had centered its annual, biannual, and quadriannual celebrations of its various fandoms. The conventions held on Alpharius 9 last now, not for a few days, but months at a time, as millions upon millions of nerds pour through SanDiegoComicCity's Central Convention and Gaming Matrix to partake of the sweet, geeky nectar therein. Visitors to the planet can rest assured that the damages from the Trekker/Trekkie civil wars of 2678 have been fully repaired, and the streets are once again safe to walk down while dressed as a Sailor Senshi. Alpharius 9: Drink And Enjoy!

Lol! :smallbiggrin:


Okay. I got that you made up a world, but I had no idea why there was a con thrown infront of it. Thanks.

Anyway, I agree, there should be dinosaurs.

Like I said, we'll get to that when we get to the fauna.

Well now, what does everyone think of the Clockpunk/Alchemypunk Fantasy setting?

TFT
2010-01-18, 01:22 AM
I'd like to help, but I don't really do this much. Whatever you need done, just ask.

Echowinds
2010-01-18, 04:29 AM
Clockpunk main with alchemy on the side is always good. Some fantastical element that isn't obvious with the world is definitely interesting though. I always like fantasy as mystical rather than elves and dwarfs running around town.

Some form of flying machines is a must though, be it the Da Vinci form of helicopters stuff or airships.

Dallas-Dakota
2010-01-18, 04:44 AM
Echo, can be.

I like elves and dwarves sometimes, but they shouldn't be present that much. Instead of MMO's and such, which have them around every corner.

Yup, fantasy clockpunk+alchemypunk setting sounds pretty good.

Setting: Fantasy -clock+alchemypunk.
Tech advancement? medieval in some places and early rennescainse(screwed up spelling. >< correct please?)?

Races(we'l do flora+fauna after that, I suppose): Homemade/brewed.
Gnomes?
Halflings?
Orcs?
Goblins?
Dwarves???

More suggestions always welcome?

Echowinds
2010-01-18, 05:29 AM
It's not a campaign, so you don't need to say homebrew. Even just humans will do for a proper world. After all, even real life humans have many different interesting culture, and properly done can be far more interesting than Elves and Dwarfs gimmicks (and stereotypes).

Kris on a Stick
2010-01-18, 06:00 AM
Maybe have a second race that oppose/are in a war/cold war state with the humans, while still being every bit as varied as the humans (though maybe in different ways)? Sort of like the TOS Klingons, before they got the 'techno Viking' hat stuck on them. Still a fully varied race, with all sorts of different cultures and subcultures... just not human.

Athaniar
2010-01-18, 06:15 AM
I'm always in favor of excluding humans altogether. In nearly every fantasy world, humans are the most numerous, most varied, and most significant. I'm tired of it. So either no humans, or very few. Also, I support fantasy with a slight tech angle, as long as that doesn't mean low magic. I like magic.

Also, for elves and dwarves, we don't necessarily have to exclude them, just make them different enough. Especially with dwarves. They live in great mountain halls, their write with ancient norse runes, they are master blacksmiths, they prefer axes and hammers, they are all alcoholics, they have a beard fetish, they all speak with a Scottish accent... Most, if not all of this is true in nearly every setting. Why not have them live on mountains, be expert engineers, wield swords and spears, and talk with a British accent?
Note: that was just an example. Although British dwarves is a fun idea...

Dallas-Dakota
2010-01-18, 06:23 AM
Making the humans few in number, holding onto a certain strategic point while being in war?

Xavius: Nah. Just take some elements of dwarves and think up our own.(with more thought then swords/spears+british accents. though) For example dwarf size just doesn't work very well with spears.

Also if we're doing more then one race, make it more then 2. Otherwise it'l just seems like a vs. which I really wouldn't prefer.

Kris on a Stick
2010-01-18, 06:35 AM
Pikes? Dwarf phalanxes would be kickass. Though I've always been partial to Southern Dwarves myself. :smalltongue:
"Weeeell, wouldya lookit that. That's some maaaghty faine gold nuggets ya got thar pardner."

@^: The thing is, the more sentient races you get, the more competition for space, and the bigger your world has to be to reasonably fit them all in. We did a reasonably good job of killing off all our competitors, who's to say it wouldn't happen elsewhere? Maybe there were treehugging elves and goldmining dwarves in Fantasyland. The humans just killed them all.

Dallas-Dakota
2010-01-18, 06:48 AM
Yes, dwarf phalanxes would be awesome.

Dwarf sparta. o.0 Dominating silly humans for food. 0.o
Hmmm nah.

KK: True, but then again, we only had the neanderthaler as competition, which was killed mainly by climate.(And otherwise we would have flourished in everywhere but Europe(where they were based when they died out))

It could be that other races that just aren't as aggro and fast-breeding as humans.

Also it could be that humans killed all the gnomes and stole their clockwork technology!

Echowinds
2010-01-18, 07:22 AM
Dwarf with spears actually makes sense, because they have a low centre of gravity as well as a need to compensate for the lack of reach. Spears are also easy to make and makes a lot more sense than axes most of the time. Not that I am in favor of dwarfs though.

Unfortunately, with no humans you don't have something to relate to. Without humans, inevitable it's really easy to have another race with human syndromes, just with perhaps blue skin or pointy ears. :smallwink:

Of course, you can make a few other viable dominant races, but I am really against any form of stereotypical races. You see, most new races usually look like humans but with:
Different skin colour not within our usual pigment range Different ears Different size and colour of eyes Has a different nose Has a lot more hair than humans, and different colours Body shapes that are fatter, taller, shorter, or thinner Has a tail, or teeth that sticks out, maybe a long tongue Is more homogeneous than humans, both physical and mental Something they are really good at

But of course, they still have 1 head, 2 limbs they walk on, and use their hands to do work. Their genitals are still between their legs. There's always two sexes. Two eyes, a nose, two ears, and a mouth. There's breasts for females, and penises for males. In short, human, but severely mutated. What's the point of a new race then, when significant cultural attributes can set them apart anyways? The gimmicks of a "new" race always perturbed me. You can always have humans that are tree huggers and good at hunting, using the bow, and live very long due to a combination of diet and some mystical forces. You can always have humans that live inside the mountain, and good at mining and smithing. They can be stunted because of lack of light. You can have humans that do everything gnomes do (good at clockwork, etc) but just aren't small creatures. You can also have humans that are brutish, big, and have a tribal government, and you have your orcs.

Magic always get out of hand, so I am in favor of low magic. Really low magic, at some form of mystical angle at best. The type where you have questionably hazy seers, beast tamers and minor forms of psychics, rather than meteor swarms, mass heals and teleports. If you want healing magic, the best that may exist may be augmenting viable herbal medicines with some sort of mystical "healer's touch" - but this is more attributed to sensible medical practice than actual magic. Remember, western renaissance culture involves practice such as the humour theory and blood letting, so some more radical form of treatment may very well be magic to them. I also like it if the magic is somehow explained, rather than "it just exists".

Also, slapping on a race with x real life culture is just weak. You might as well make them human with those characteristics. Changing where they live, how they talk, and their usual profession is not changing their culture. Culture is not those things, but how people think, how people view life, and how they form their societies. Their current attributes should justify by their surroundings and traditions.

ref
2010-01-18, 07:56 AM
Nah, no humans. The list that Dallas-Dakota put is nice, except for orcs, they're all shorter than the average human, so that could define some qualities of the world.

Alchemy is nice, plus can be used for attack, for healing, or for all kind of effects, so the masters of that are looked at with some weird mix of respect and a watchful eye.

But what do I know? I don't tend to do this sort of things.

Dallas-Dakota
2010-01-18, 08:32 AM
Echowinds(ps. why did you stop drawing your cool art? I remember you had a cult devoted to you and your art...): Why do I get the feeling you don't like humanoids(except humans) at all?:smalltongue:

I suppose we could have non-humanoids.
You just want the culture of different races such as orcs, dwarves, gnomes etc. and slapstick them onto humans.(Which could be possible but...)

I second the low magic. Rather Tolkien-esque, magic-level, I suppose.
With healers/medicine men using medicine and (science-)knowledge to properly apply things for healing. Possibly also chanting, since some sciences are shunned?

This would also make sense that if you'd get into studying one of the higher sciences(divided into the branches of Clock and Alchemy) you couldn't really do other sciences as they are possibly shunned? ??

This could be just one culture and/or race, or perhaps the entire setting?

Ref: Possibly, but more experimenting, combat and general purposes then healing(though alchemy would include life-extending things?) That would be better, I think.

Kris on a Stick
2010-01-18, 09:42 AM
Echowinds has a point. That's why I'm saying that if we DO add extra races, it should only be one or two, so we can have varied cultures and sub-culture for them, as opposed to them simply being races of hats. I further propose that any other races be sufficiently different that their cultures be DISTINCT from human cultures. Elves are treehugging hippies? Humans can do that. Dwarves are geophilliac miners? Humans can do that as well. Mermen, on the other hand? With mermen you can have a whole host of culture that CAN'T simply be slapped onto humans, on account of humans not living underwater. They'd be a whole other race, as opposed to humans with funny hats.

Dallas-Dakota
2010-01-18, 09:51 AM
Ofcourse my fondness of dwarves says we should have them, but I realize your point.

3 races would probably be best.

KK, you have a point, but say with such big differences, I mean we do want it to be possible for them to interact? Even if vaguely?
You can't have that if you make them TOO different.


We could make dwarves semi-allergic to sunlight and allergic to all the pollen * stuffs in the outside/surface air? Thus restricting them to in/on their mountains/the rare underground dwellings.
Or say gnomes who live in air-cities and zeppelins because their lungs can't breathe in the thick surface-air.(The higher you are, the thinner(less oxygen in the air) air is.) Or something.

But eh. I see two voices(Echo and KK) saying that we should have humans+ possibly one or two non-humanoid races? So my voice probably doesn't carry that much....

Kris on a Stick
2010-01-18, 10:12 AM
Of course they'd have to have some common ground or way of interacting. Otherwise, how do they know the other race is sentient at all? It should just be... different. Like talking with a total foreigner, except worse. At least with a foreigner the other dude is human, with human experiences.
Why should a merman understand the importance of fire? They live underwater, after all. Would a lizardman not view humans as gluttonous, for eating as many as three times a day? And humans view lizardmen as lazy, for they spend their evenings and mornings doing nothing but bask. These aren't even particularly good examples, since lizard and fish and ape could eventually learn of steam, or of hot and cold bloodedness. I'm sure, if I put a little more thought and weren't half asleep, I could find an aspect of one race the other would find truly baffling.

Dallas-Dakota
2010-01-18, 10:17 AM
Dwarf mating.

More like 'gross' or 'disturbing' to most humans, I suppose.:smalltongue:

But eh, let's try to settle on the amount of sentient (reasonably advanced, for them) races. 3?

Anyway, you kinda ignored my other point.
Also those gnomes(And they all wear hats, to protect them from the sun) I thought of sound good.(Also get airships/zeppelins, this way)

Kris on a Stick
2010-01-18, 10:32 AM
I see your 'dwarf mating' and raise you 'coupling'. Period. In the words of a merman/fishman/bivalveman: "Wait, you actually stick your *blank* inside her *blank*? Eeeew. :smallyuk:
*continues spraying the surrounding ocean with sperm*

Also, I know not of this other point of which you speak.

Also, how would such gnomes evolve. Mountains? It's not like those zepellins could have been around forever. :smalltongue:

Dallas-Dakota
2010-01-18, 10:47 AM
Deleted - We're worldbuilding, not doing a Gross contest, hmmk?

Yus, mountains most likely.

Then possibly being sieged a long time by one of the other two races and then deciding to go fully into the air.


Anyway: Probably 3 races then?
Start getting real suggestions in and ideas on how to improve them?

Dogmantra
2010-01-18, 02:55 PM
they all speak with a Scottish accent... Why not have them ... talk with a British accent?

Pet peeve: Scotland is part of Britain, therefore a Scottish accent is a British accent. :smallwink:

This sounds like fun, too, so I'd like to get involved. Just throw me a community or a race or something and I'll go and amuse myself in the corner and probably make something okay out of it.

Echowinds
2010-01-18, 03:12 PM
@dallas: I have too many time consuming hobbies. Also I have an inferior complex in art.

I am not against humanoids at all. I just want them to be more than just stereotyped human with some minor cosmetic change. A sky-faring gnome culture may be doable, but a further dissemination of society must be discussed to make sure they aren't simply flying humans with awesome engineering skills. :) Also, there's barely any food up in the mountains. What do the gnomes eat? Without a food source the gnomes cannot have a large population. There fertility rate will naturally be low. How can they combat population decline? How did they expanded in the first place? What can do against marauding humans seeking their technology?

The sieging idea doesn't make sense, unless the other races also live on the mountains. You see, humans aren't terribly interested in living high up there when they already got the low areas, and the sea people that is suggested won't even have contact with these gnomes, much less fight against them. No contact = no point having additional races.

What I propose is floating islands. Yes, floating islands. How do they float? Perhaps by a naturally occurring reaction that creates an anti-gravitational field. Or just justified by some form of world magical force that allows for floating islands. Whatever the case, this can be utilized by one of the proposed race to reach for the skies. Why are they sought after? Perhaps the said islands have a lot of these minerals that allow for easy flying, and better than the clockwork gizmo that are used initially. They may also have good land for colonization, and coupled with religion may be good excuse for conflict. "Won't humans have a hard time living up there, what with the wind, cold temperature and thin air?" Floating islands don't need to be that high up. A kilometre off the ground works well already. Where do they find the catalyst needed to make these odd alchemy-based anti-grav engines? Perhaps in the sea, where the sea people live.

Now I don't know how to make people fight with sea people if the mer people live undersea and humans live on land. There's simply no conflict of interest, and pollution's far from a problem in the proposed era. A lot of the stuff the humans make won't work in sea, and vice versa. I think an amphibious culture may work better in this case. Some sort of aqua-based race may be effective, because the sea can support a hypothetical vibrant culture. Agriculture and construction is doable. Metal working is a little difficult in the sea though, seeing as you can't really start a fire, besides volcanic vents. The water next to these vents are hot though, so it's not like creatures not regularly living next to them can survive.

Athaniar
2010-01-18, 04:10 PM
Pet peeve: Scotland is part of Britain, therefore a Scottish accent is a British accent. :smallwink:


Freeedom! *gets impaled*

ref
2010-01-18, 04:21 PM
So, Land race, Air race, and Water race? Maybe the world has hybrid zones where two or all three races can live somewhere, which are used as neutral zones in order to contact/trade.

Dallas-Dakota
2010-01-18, 04:53 PM
@dallas: I have too many time consuming hobbies. Also I have an inferior complex in art.
First excuse, good. Second excuse: You had a friggen' cult devoted to your art.


I am not against humanoids at all. I just want them to be more than just stereotyped human with some minor cosmetic change. A sky-faring gnome culture may be doable, but a further dissemination of society must be discussed to make sure they aren't simply flying humans with awesome engineering skills. :)
Entirely seconded!
It'l just mean that we'l have to work them out more. Which would be a good idea anyway.


Also, there's barely any food up in the mountains. What do the gnomes eat? Without a food source the gnomes cannot have a large population. There fertility rate will naturally be low. How can they combat population decline? How did they expanded in the first place? What can do against marauding humans seeking their technology?
The sieging idea doesn't make sense, unless the other races also live on the mountains. You see, humans aren't terribly interested in living high up there when they already got the low areas, and the sea people that is suggested won't even have contact with these gnomes, much less fight against them. No contact = no point having additional races.
I see your point entirely, it was just a quick idea thrown out there.
Also technology, possibly. Humans can be rather greedy and such.
Trying to take over gnome cities/capturing scientists for their technology.
I'm not saying this should be canon, I'm throwing a idea out there.



What I propose is floating islands. Yes, floating islands. How do they float? Perhaps by a naturally occurring reaction that creates an anti-gravitational field. Or just justified by some form of world magical force that allows for floating islands. Whatever the case, this can be utilized by one of the proposed race to reach for the skies. Why are they sought after? Perhaps the said islands have a lot of these minerals that allow for easy flying, and better than the clockwork gizmo that are used initially. They may also have good land for colonization, and coupled with religion may be good excuse for conflict. "Won't humans have a hard time living up there, what with the wind, cold temperature and thin air?" Floating islands don't need to be that high up. A kilometre off the ground works well already. Where do they find the catalyst needed to make these odd alchemy-based anti-grav engines? Perhaps in the sea, where the sea people live.

It sounds like a good, though funky idea.
As your point with ''humans with cosmetic changes'' was, I say that anti-gravity, especially islands is very powerfull. We'd need to think it out more. I'm not saying no to it, I'm just saying we need to work it out more and see how it would work/be/end up.



Now I don't know how to make people fight with sea people if the mer people live undersea and humans live on land. There's simply no conflict of interest, and pollution's far from a problem in the proposed era. A lot of the stuff the humans make won't work in sea, and vice versa. I think an amphibious culture may work better in this case. Some sort of aqua-based race may be effective, because the sea can support a hypothetical vibrant culture. Agriculture and construction is doable. Metal working is a little difficult in the sea though, seeing as you can't really start a fire, besides volcanic vents. The water next to these vents are hot though, so it's not like creatures not regularly living next to them can survive.

Yes, making them amphibious might be better. Also possibly cold-blooded(reptiles)
So that they need to live near shorelines(Specific areas in the neighbourhood of volcanic vents(though not that close).
Being near the warm water, making them live in the fishing grounds of humans?

Ref: Eh? A combination of land, water and air?:smallconfused: I'm not quite getting you.

littlebottom
2010-01-18, 06:11 PM
go the other way perhaps? not gnomes, but giants? tall, broad beings that are matched in height only by the biggest beings... giants can be clever, infact, they would have bigger brains, so why not attribute their technology to that?

of course, this causes the issue of weight, making the air ships etc massive to accomadate the weight...

i just think that giants get thrown to the sidelines all to often, if they appear in a setting they are stupid beings that terrorize little people by stamping on them.

of course, im just throwing ideas into the hat.

Maximum Zersk
2010-01-18, 07:19 PM
I'm back! Looks like it's all coming together slowly. I like the ideas so far.

Dogmantra: Yes, but technically Scotland is the northern part and England is the Southern part, right?

Echowinds: Anti-Gravitational Field... might be a bit to futuristic. How about a large amount of lighter-than-air gases within the rock? Of course this would mean a large proportion of the islands would be said gas, but it does fit nicely with the Alchemypunk part of the world.

Lord Xavius: ALBA DU BRA! ALBA DU BRA! ALBA DU BRA! :smalltongue:

ref: Maybe... Might not work with warring races, since they would detest each other, so there wouldn't be many hybrids. But since if we talk about that we'll go off-topic again, that's all I'll say.

littlebottom: Giants, maybe. Gnome, I think, fit the part better in my opinion (which are usually backed by insane troll logic. :smalltongue:), but we'll see.

Everyone: The Three Races idea seems good. Makes the planet exotic enough, but not too exotic. Once we get too exotic, it starts getting rediculous. :smalltongue:

Also, before anyone makes the mistake. Races and Cultures are two different things.

When we mention three races, we could easily get confused with cultures, since they can be interchangeable. Another thing is that, while we do have three races, we can have many ethnicities in that race.

What I mean is, look at the human race. We call the species a race, but within that, we have Caucasian, African, Semitic, Indo, East Asian, Native American, Aboriginal Australian, and so on. We can then branch that down even further. Anglo-Saxon, Celtic, Frankish, Hispanic, Italian, Greek, East Slavic, some other European Races, Semetic, North African, South African, Multiple Indian Races, Southeast Asian, Chinese, Japanese, Ainu, Mongolian, Aboriginal Australian, Polynesian, Micronesian, Central Asian...

See what I'm getting here? (I'm not sure some of those are technically races, but. :smalltongue:)

All I'm saying is, while we only have three races, we use the word culture as the word for literal races. Also, that we can have different ethnic groups of each of the three races. (I'd really like to see different ethnicities for the amphibious people. :smalltongue:)

By the way, I want to thank all of you guys for helping. The conworld is making great progress at this rate. I only hope we can-- No, wait, if I say it, it'll jinx us. :smalltongue:

So, right now, we got: Clockpunk/Alchemypunk Fantasy with Steampunk elements. There are three intelligent races, humans, gnomes, and the sea-people. We have the gnomes living in higher areas or on floating islands in the sky. Human live on land, and the sea-people live in the coast, being amphibious in nature. Anyone have any objections they'd like to point out now?

Echowinds
2010-01-18, 07:52 PM
Race doesn't exist scientifically. We are all humans, but society decides to slap on a term called "race" base on people's physical appearance. Some people use the term ethnic group interchangeably.

Thus, the word "culture" is plenty enough to say there are different people in one particular species. And indeed, besides humans there should be different sub-cultures within the other species.

Personally, not too fond of gnomes, but since dallas likes them, by all means. I mean, how the heck do they survive prior to technological invention? Humans are plenty weak enough biologically, so I can't imagine how tiny people can survive that well on a mountain. Even hawks and eagles may proof dangerous to a gnome.

Kris on a Stick
2010-01-19, 07:47 AM
Personally, I'd see some conflict between humans and sea-people for coastal and shallow water. While some would live in the open ocean, where only large sea-faring vessels would go, but I would see the most vibrant and densely populated areas at coasts, especially coral reefs. And yes, they would have to be amphibious to some extent. If they can't at least breath air, then there's pretty much no communication at all, barring sign language or something.

Dallas-Dakota
2010-01-19, 08:09 AM
Personally, not too fond of gnomes, but since dallas likes them, by all means. I mean, how the heck do they survive prior to technological invention? Humans are plenty weak enough biologically, so I can't imagine how tiny people can survive that well on a mountain. Even hawks and eagles may proof dangerous to a gnome.
I like them, but I don't love them. I'd rather have dwarves, but yeah.

By being quick, nimble, much dexterity. Using more ranged weaposn for self defense.
Being able to carve homes into the mountains or such.

There is such a thing as too much evolution-backtracking. >.>

Races/Cultures: They are not the same, yes. We are not making just three ''groups''. There will be subcultures etc. Especially among the humans?


Hybrids: Yeah, not many of them. They're very rare.

KK: Said that in my previous post, last paragraph. So that's semi-agreed on then?

LittleBottom: They can be clever, but being big doesn't mean that you get bigger brains. And issues with weight and such as you said yourself.

Gnomes are rather light in that perspective, thus would be better for flying/gliding and such.

ref
2010-01-19, 08:50 AM
It's OK with the rarity of hybrids. After all, if they were common, we would actually have humans, mermen, gnomes, half-mermen, half-gnomes, sea gnomes, and triple breeds, and that's not what we want.

Main conflict is for the coastal zones, but also for high points if there are different human cultures warring among themselves, as those points are strategical and often natural borders. The sea race and air race seem to have a lot less friction, but we need to envision how (if somehow) they contact with each other.

I also think that the other two races also need subcultures, so instead of going the usual path of "gnomes, mermen, and fifty human races", I'd rather split them somehow with the races having a smaller number of cultures and fairly equivalent (emphasis on fairly, one race can have just two and another, say, five or six, but it's not time yet to be specific).

Saeyan
2010-01-19, 09:13 AM
I'd be interested in doing concept art sketches for this if we ever get that far. God knows I need the practice...

Interesting project so far, and yes! No elves! Let's invent a new species never before seen in fantasy.

Prime32
2010-01-19, 09:43 AM
I have some stuff that may be of interest to you:

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=3995.0
Dwarves are just a pseudo-Roman nation of humans with a lot of inaccurate stories told about them.
Elves are overgrown psychic kids with plants living inside their bodies. And they never had any parents to tell them not to be rude. They can't reproduce, so they steal kids to turn into more elves.
Also demons.

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=2159.0
Elemental magic in da future!

Dogmantra
2010-01-19, 11:26 AM
Dwarves are just a pseudo-Roman nation of humans with a lot of inaccurate stories told about them.

I really like this idea. Some kind of tales, perhaps to do with the sea-people, making them out to be rather different from what they actually are.

littlebottom
2010-01-19, 06:12 PM
Interesting project so far, and yes! No elves! Let's invent a new species never before seen in fantasy.

time to go break out that copy of spore for inspiration! :smalltongue:

Kurien
2010-01-19, 06:16 PM
Here I am entering my own input, even though it may be largely ignored by the majority. I have little experience in world building or writing.

I am somewhat opposed to the sea people, mostly because a humanoid form is not well suited for life underwater. A streamlined porpoise or pinniped like form would be ideal for marine life, as evidenced by just those animals. The humanoid form is awkward underwater compared to a dolphin or seal. Giving the sea people webbed feet and hands probably isn't enough to justify incredible swimming ability.

If the sea people are like a fish or dolphin, then how do we explain tool usage? Only fins or flippers are suited for swimming (they are there mostly for stabilization, so that the animal doesn't flip upside down or something during swimming). Something similar to human arms would seriously drag and hamper movement.

We could explain the sea people's success on psychic power to manipulate objects, but only underwater as the buoyancy is greater and therefore easier to move things.
_________________________________
I suggest an arthropod-like species. It would have a hard, chitinous exoskeleton and insect like mandibles. However, a real life insects' respiratory system is inefficient for use in larger animals, so it would have a system similar to a reptile or maybe a mammal. They could be halfling-sized, and have large insect like wings (not used like a real insect's wings, as they only work on featherlight organisms. A 30-60 pound Arthropodling is too heavy.) Such wings are more likely used for gliding or flying like a bat.)

They:

Could have a hive mentality.
Might lay eggs.
Have a larval stage/pupal stage/adult stage.
Moult their exoskeleton once in a while
Colourful exoskeleton, sexually dimorphic between the sexes.
The female could be larger and stronger than the male.
Breathe through opening in the thorax.
Multiple eyes, some on the top of the head.
Antenae or feelers
No ears at all.
Have stingers or hollow fangs for injecting venom
Larval stage could spin silk

They could fill the role of dwarfs as an underground/tunneling species. Perhaps they could have been conquered long ago and have since become a form of cheap slave labour.

Altogether they could be sufficiently different from Echowinds' description of standard stereotypical races.

Maximum Zersk
2010-01-19, 09:14 PM
Hmm, seems like an interesting idea. Though everyone else will have to see it.

A thing about their bodies not being made for the sea: their not fully marine, they're amphibous. I'm not sure if that makes much of a difference, but since they go on land a lot, that may change what they look like. Also, frogs have legs, and they're fine swimming.

Again, we'll have to go through this with everyone.

Dallas-Dakota
2010-01-20, 02:07 AM
Kurien, on the first paragraph: Yes! You said what I could not about water-peoples. Seconding tis about the water peoples. More to come later.

Kris on a Stick
2010-01-20, 04:26 AM
If they're amphibious, maybe something crocodilian? If we decide to make them fully aquatic, however, then dolphin-style creatures make sense. Because in Fantasyland: Giant Friggin' Brains = Psychic Powers.

Dallas-Dakota
2010-01-20, 07:17 AM
Crocodillian sounds pretty good.

Come visit our world.
We have man-crocs.

Athaniar
2010-01-20, 11:13 AM
I agree, crocodilian is excellent.

Maximum Zersk
2010-01-20, 07:33 PM
Wait, if they were Man-crocs, wouldn't they only live around freshwater areas.

Actually, that might add some conflict over freshwater between nations.

Dallas-Dakota
2010-01-21, 12:52 AM
Hey, two subraces. Freshwater and saltwater!

Maximum Zersk
2010-01-21, 07:55 PM
I guess that would work.

Okay, summary:

Fantasy Clockpunk/Alchemypunk world. There are three races, Humans, Gnomes, and either an Anthro-Crocodilian or Anthro-Arthropodic third species. Humans are the land-based, Gnomes are Sky-Based, And (If Crocodilian) Croc-men are water/land based. There are pieces of land floating in the sky where the gnomes reside.

Okay, if everybody generally agrees on this, we can work on the next order of business: the map.

littlebottom
2010-01-21, 09:04 PM
personally, i would like the planet to be huge. but obviously thats difficult to do. something like 3 normal continents, 2 flying "contenents" (or just areas of which there happens to be lots of concentrated flying mountains) and and 2 or 3 major oceans. that sounds more reasonable, but still way off the scale of what we could do (when i say continents, i mean that continent has its own countrys and citys... but as i say a bit ambitious...)

but thats my 2 pence.

im not good with the making of the actual map though. but ill help aplenty when it comes to mapping where people recon citys should go and such.

Maximum Zersk
2010-01-21, 09:19 PM
Well, we can make the world larger if everyone's up to it. I mean a small one could be a solo project or with a group of two or three people. But we're more than that. So we can make a larger map, if everyone's okay with that.

And littlebottom, you don't have to be good with making maps. Helping out with the geographical and political areas is good enough.

Kurien
2010-01-21, 09:41 PM
I think working a bit smaller in scope would be better than an entire planet. I suggest working on a portion of the planet, that way we could focus on fleshing out the details such as fauna/flora, culture and geography.

I don't know a lot about other fictional worlds, but I think that settings such as Forgotten Realms took many years of development and many writers to get to the amount of content they have today. Unless we are prepared to take that level of dedication and working hours, if our world tries to be as big as theirs, we will fail.

And I must question the croc men. How anthropomorphic are they? Are they similar to Offler, just a croc head on a human body? A crocodile skull is specialized for immense bite power, a feature suited for life as a top predator. I don't know the exact intelligence of crocodiles, but obviously the brain encased in their skull does not have the capacity for sapience and sentience. A creature with a crocodile head would have a brain the size and shape of one, and therefore is not nearly as intelligent as a human.

Another feature of crocodiles is a sensitive area around a croc's mouth, similar to a fish's lateral line, detecting disturbances in the water. This sensory adaptation is used to locate prey. Would our crocodilian people have tis ability?

A crocodile mainly uses its powerful tail to swim, so logical a crocman that can also swim well should have such a tail. But, if bipedal, the pelvis would not fit the tail along with the gluteal muscles, which are essential for humans to be upright. What I'm saying is that a big tail does not work an a human.

littlebottom
2010-01-21, 10:17 PM
you say a big tale doesnt work on a human? why not? it is just something that on our planet nature hasnt evolved to yet. there could be a solution to this problem, and nature would solve it im sure. :smallwink:

Maximum Zersk
2010-01-21, 10:40 PM
Well, they would be more anthro than crocodile I guess. The tail can be solved by a different physiology than an average human. They could crouch, but would that allow them to swim?

Echowinds
2010-01-21, 11:30 PM
I am no biology major, so I can't really comment on what makes sense and what doesn't in creating a new intelligent species. I am just of the opinion that any new intelligent species must be significantly different than a human, or there wouldn't be any point to not use humans.

As for world size, I prefer focusing on a smaller scope for reasons Kurien stated. You can still have empires clashing, enormous wars, and whatever if you so wish. Furthermore, by limiting an area initially, should we ever want to expand the scope, we won't be limited by established areas.

Maximum Zersk
2010-01-22, 12:41 AM
True enough, I guess. We can map out the world beforehand, but start in a small area. Then, if we need to, expand.

So, right now, we've got two or three continents, a few oceans, and a floating continent.

Anything to add to it?

Dallas-Dakota
2010-01-22, 07:46 AM
Not that fast, not that fast.

We're with around 7-9 people I think?(And we don't know how many are going to stay through the entire project, no offense ment, I mean, there are valid excuses like RL imploding with stuffs and such)

Let's start with 1 continent of each(1 major land continent, 1 ocean, 1 concentration of floating islands.

Also, decision:
Shall we make our croc-men(who really need to have a name) freshwater, saltwater or two different kinds who either live in salt or freshwater?

Echowinds
2010-01-22, 03:07 PM
Think of our world. We want to concentrate on something small like the western part of the Mediterranean, or something. Not the entire "Old World".

I am thinking of part of 1 continent, with some floating islands around. The focused part would be temperate area, with ample amount of waterways and coastal regions. One edge of the map will be a mountain range which runs parallel with the ocean, which exists on the opposite edge. The land is also permeated with lakes, rivers, and small seas and bays. The land is generally "rough", meaning valleys, gorges, and cliffs will be in greater abundance. The concentration of flat ground lies near coastal regions and major valleys, which happened to be often the habitats of the croc-men. The biggest floating island will float off the mountain over the flatter lands, which casts a rather large periodic shadow over the land. There will be clusters of floating islands of various sizes. Some will be inhabited? Regardless, real estate will be in shorter supply than in our world within the same amount of territory, forcing the colonization of the said floating islands. The world will be "younger", thus perhaps more tectonically active. More earthquakes and volcanic activities, making floating islands even more of a premium choice.

Dallas-Dakota
2010-01-22, 03:43 PM
Yes, good post.

Though technically speaking, cliffs& gorges are usually formed by rivers running them for a veeeeery long time...

Athaniar
2010-01-22, 03:50 PM
Also, decision:
Shall we make our croc-men(who really need to have a name) freshwater, saltwater or two different kinds who either live in salt or freshwater?

I like the two subraces idea. Perhaps they were originally a saltwater species, but some of them decided to move and later became a separate kind (loosely like the night elf/high elf situation in Warcraft, but (probably) without the whole magic war thing).

Maximum Zersk
2010-01-22, 08:44 PM
Okay, we'll start small.

Interesting idea, Echowinds. But if on one side of the mountains is ocean, wouldn't that mean the other side is dry. Unless the windward side of the mountain is from the land to the sea. Otherwise, the windward side of the mountain would be very lush and wet, while the other side, the plains side, would be dry.

And yeah, the two subraces would work fine. But instead of a war splitting them apart, how about they just split into two different groups, one living in freshwater areas, one settling down on the coast?

Prime32
2010-01-22, 09:02 PM
And the ones living in rivers call the coastal ones "saltlings"?

Maximum Zersk
2010-01-22, 09:03 PM
That, or their word for Seakin or Oceankin, or something like that.

The Seakin, on the other hand, might call their river counterparts Riverkin.

ref
2010-01-22, 10:37 PM
yeah, but they're friendly, I guess. Or neutral at the best. This is no war that split them, as MZ said. They can have river deltas as the trade zones.

Echowinds
2010-01-23, 04:36 AM
Yes, good post.

Though technically speaking, cliffs& gorges are usually formed by rivers running them for a veeeeery long time...

Not necessary. It can be a result of glacial movement of a previous ice age. Rivers that ran for a long time creates flat river plains. The rivers are at an age where they ran long enough to cut into the mountain, but not enough to create flat plains.


Interesting idea, Echowinds. But if on one side of the mountains is ocean, wouldn't that mean the other side is dry. Unless the windward side of the mountain is from the land to the sea. Otherwise, the windward side of the mountain would be very lush and wet, while the other side, the plains side, would be dry.

That's fine. Firstly, we aren't really expanding beyond the mountains. Secondly, if we do, we have a significantly different setting which can be explored.

And I have no objections about the two varieties of croc-men.

littlebottom
2010-01-23, 06:59 PM
here (http://www.spore.com/view/postcard/500530130934) is a crack at a croc-man thing, tell me what you thing in general style. the spines on his back were not the kind i wanted but they were what i found that suited, and i can just go edit the creature if you want me to tweak it a little.

heres a couple more angles.
here (http://www.spore.com/view/postcard/500530130920)

and

here (http://www.spore.com/view/postcard/500530130867)

any thing at all you think i should change then just say, i can move the legs higher or lower on the body for example, i can change the hands or feet.

oh and about the webbed feet... ive no idea why, when i assume they would swim with a left to right motion using their tail, not an up and down.

Maximum Zersk
2010-01-24, 11:26 PM
Hey, neat littlebottom.

So, on the subject of the map, should the sea be in the north, south, east, or west? And how much space between the mountains and the sea? Any major landmarks on the coast, such as bays, penninsulas, and such?

How about rivers? Considering it's on the windward side of the mountain, I would expect many river, creeks, and streams. And of course, rivers means forest, so I'm guessing we should have much of that.

Well, people?

Dallas-Dakota
2010-01-25, 02:49 AM
Tired from a con, need to go to college now. Will discuss/make a sketch map later.

Kris on a Stick
2010-01-25, 05:12 AM
I'd imagine Croc-men would have shorter legs, to tuck against their body when swimming. Probably more horizontal when they stand. This is just a suggestion, and nothing against your creations littlebottom, but I imagine the crocodilian peoples as being similar to kobolds, except a lot larger and bulkier, with larger tails (though of course they'd need to have something to counterbalance them, or be dragging their tails everywhere. I dunno). They'd be somewhat awkward on land, with a sort of shambling gait, but I imagine they could suddenly lunge/leap/dash/sprint forward with frightening speed, much like real crocs. In the water they'd be more graceful. Google Searching 'crocodile man' brings up this (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_-crp2UwK5Eg/SOZTwXhIYJI/AAAAAAAAAGw/u7UMQvUMsew/s400/BigCrocColor.jpg), which looks somewhat okay, though of course they'd have musculature more suited to their side-to-side swimming, instead of ridiculous pectorals and a sixpack.

Echowinds
2010-01-25, 06:10 AM
I may do a quick sketch if I have time. That applies to the map. Crocman just haven't give me much inspirations yet, so that has to wait.

Dallas-Dakota
2010-01-25, 06:22 AM
Pretty much what Echowinds said.
And what KK said. >.>

Maximum Zersk
2010-01-29, 05:06 PM
Any other ideas for the map, guys? Like, significant landmarks and such?

Dallas-Dakota
2010-01-29, 05:29 PM
Well it'd have to be a 3D map, since we're dealing with floating islands....

Maximum Zersk
2010-01-29, 05:46 PM
Either that, or very good artistic skills. :smalltongue:

I'm working on a map right now, so we'll see how it turns out.

Echowinds
2010-01-30, 12:49 AM
You don't really need to have a 3D map. I can think of ways to just draw in the floating islands into the map. In fact, 3D, unless you are very skilled, is ugly.

Again, super busy recently, so haven't been able to produce anything. :smallannoyed:

Maximum Zersk
2010-02-04, 11:20 PM
Made a map. Not finished. Can't find a way to add the mountain without ruining the image.

http://i608.photobucket.com/albums/tt165/Zorosuke/GitpMap.png

littlebottom
2010-02-05, 06:11 PM
well, i think 2 major things are missing, 1, the floating mountines, 2 lakes/rivers etc. we should discuss where we want said items.

Maximum Zersk
2010-02-05, 07:04 PM
Well, it's just a base for the land and stuff. We can add the rivers and mountains and floating islands.

ref
2010-02-05, 11:14 PM
Two main rivers with the clearly marked ends in deltas (where the two croc subraces do their trading. This suggests three main "provinces", for what it's worth, the rivers being natural borders and such.

Maximum Zersk
2010-02-08, 09:07 PM
I was thinking that the mountain range would be in the middle, between the grasslands and the deserts. The floating mountains would be above that.

ref
2010-02-09, 12:45 AM
Yes, makes sense. The mountains, and the guys at the floating ones, shield the land beyond from humidity, and it became desertized. The rivers are born in the other side of the mountains, and flow to the two gulfs.

Maximum Zersk
2010-02-13, 08:31 PM
Okay.

Anyone else got any ideas?

...Anyone else here?

littlebottom
2010-02-13, 08:37 PM
still here, just busy and havnt had time to put much thought to it:smallfrown:

Maximum Zersk
2010-02-13, 08:45 PM
It's okay. It's just a little thing we're doing for fun. :smallsmile:

EDIT: Added rivers to the map. Placement okay?


http://i608.photobucket.com/albums/tt165/Zorosuke/GitpMap-1.png

ref
2010-02-14, 06:11 AM
That was the idea, yes.

PS Almost missed the thread with its name change! You could try adding (was Conworlding), or something to that effect.

Maximum Zersk
2010-02-14, 02:28 PM
(Wouldn't let me change it again.)

Maximum Zersk
2010-02-19, 07:51 PM
Magicky Bumpities.

Well, guys, I think I have an idea for the crocmen. What about something similar to a mesoamerican culture?

Also, the map of the GitP Conworld seems a bit close to my own conworld, mostly because of the desert on the opposite side of the mountains from the coast. Is that common?

littlebottom
2010-02-19, 07:56 PM
well, its more geographic sense than anything. it gives good reason for a desert to be there. anyway, i wish to know how the gnomes are flying from rock to rock? whats their most common transport?

Maximum Zersk
2010-02-19, 08:00 PM
"Final Fantasy Dragoon-Style Jumping" :smalltongue:

I'm guessing giant frikkin' airships. It is an Alchemy/Steam/Clockpunk setting is it not?

littlebottom
2010-02-19, 08:10 PM
yeah, i was just wondering if it was more along the lines of zepplins etc (lighter than air travel) or light aircrafts/ near modern day planes (hevier than air) because this can help define their technology a bit better, in the sense of how they put it to use... if that makes any sense at all.

Maximum Zersk
2010-02-19, 08:15 PM
I think I can make sense of that. What your saying is that the type of technology they use will help define what their architecture, culture, etc. is like.

For example, if they use Lighter Than Air (LTA) vehicles, they would be more industrialized, maybe?

Maximum Zersk
2010-02-19, 08:43 PM
Darn the Double-posting, really.

Well, I think I have some ideas for the three races. Here they are:


Gnomes: About 1 foot tall to 2 feet tall. Small, skinny bodies. Somewhat similar to hobbits, sorry, halflings in a way. Society is highly industrialized, and airborne.

Humans: 5 ft - 6/7 ft tall. complexion varies greatly. Aggressive, energetic beings. Society is almost always in an upheaval and change it seems.

Crocmen: Varied in size, going from 5 ft - 15 ft, all based on race. The river-kin are agricultural, traditionalistic, and peaceful, while the sea-kin are proud, honourable, and seafaring. Society is generally traditional.


With this, the size difference is huge, with a large gnome coming up to a small human's thigh, and a human coming up to a larger crocmen's knee or thigh. The gnome-crocmen size difference, well, the gnomes don't go any higher than the shins, it seems.

Also, the gnomes and humans seem a bit too similar.

Well, what do you guys think?

Echowinds
2010-02-20, 04:29 AM
I sorta worked on a map, but I've been playing with the style rather than laying out anything concrete.

http://b.imagehost.org/t/0757/mapalphagiantitpworldproject.jpg (http://b.imagehost.org/view/0757/mapalphagiantitpworldproject)

Lots of empty areas for now.

ref
2010-02-20, 07:53 AM
The gnomes seem different enough from the humans, they're more peaceful, and have all sort of technology the humans can't grasp. Maybe the gnomes try to generally avoid humans because they know of the humans' conquest hunger, which means that the main interaction of gnomes (besides other gnomes, naturally) are crocmen. With that big of a size difference, how does this work? The avoiding of humans would make the main contacts to be either river-kin close to the river birth, or sea-kin in deep sea.

Maximum Zersk
2010-02-23, 12:23 AM
Maybe while the humans see a huge difference in the two races, they see something similar between the two?

Tulio d Bard
2010-02-23, 07:54 PM
I guess it's too late for it, but I still prefer Kurien's Arthropodling. Maybe they can yet exist as non-sentient or semi-sentient specie. :smallfrown:

Croc-men could use their hands to help on land-walking, like apes, monkeys or something (wouldn't forbid them to walk just in two legs), also giving additional impulse to run/dash. Mesoamerican culture seems well when talking about Riverkin. Seakin could be Egypt-like. They're kind of similar so it seems ok to me.

The map needs scales. It would help a lot when deciding about landmarks, nature and such.
I'd use a second map at the same scale to draw the floating islands/mountains so that they can be overlapped perfectly.

'Racial Stats' should be helpful too. It's always good to know which race's more intelligent, which one is stronger, etc.

I'll be back.:smallbiggrin:

Dallas-Dakota
2010-02-23, 08:03 PM
Been busy.

But no statting please, just vague assumptions. Since we're having it pretty loose here....

Tulio d Bard
2010-02-23, 08:27 PM
No gaming stats. Just to have a basis. It can help a lot when thinking about culture, society, laws, alimentation, relations among the three races, religions, tools, science, and so on. Doesn't need to be a numerical value too, just a comparison.

Maximum Zersk
2010-03-01, 08:13 PM
I SHANT LET THIS PROJECT DIE!!!

We COULD make a statting system for the races, but that might be a bit too restricting. I'm not sure. Anyone else have an opinion?

Felixaar
2010-03-01, 08:33 PM
Making stats for the races would be way too constricting. However, make huge generalisations would not be out of place - aka Humans are taller than gnomes, crocmen are more green than humans.

So this map you've got. Is this the whole world, or just a section of it? If the latter, then what is off the edges?

Floating islands? What do they float above, water, or land? What holds them up?

Steampunk, eh? I'm assuming Gnomes are more intouch with said technology, while Crocmen are almost entirely devoid of it? No? Am I mistaken?

Crocmen - are they more Croc or Men? are they humanoid, but with crocodile characteristics? Or do they walk on all fours? Are they amphibious?

Maximum Zersk
2010-03-01, 08:38 PM
Seems like a good idea.

We agreed that it would be a small part of the world.

The floating islands are floating above the mountains. We still have to flesh out how they float. My idea was large amounts of lighter-than-air gases trapped in the rocks.

Generally, gnomes are in touch, yes. Croc-men wouldn't be entirely deviod, but less industrailized than other races.

And it's Steamchemyclockpunk, by the way. :smalltongue:

The croc-men are more man than croc. They're bipedal, and amphibous.

Kurien
2010-03-01, 10:41 PM
I don't think lighter than air gases trapped in the rocks is a good explanation for floating islands. A blimp/dirigible/airship is only just able to float in midair, and most of its volume is taken up by the helium. Rock and soil is very heavy; it seems very unlikely that a little gas could keep a massive chunk of land floating in the sky.

I propose a different explanation. Perhaps the floating islands are composed of some superconducting mineral that generates a powerful magnetic field?

Maximum Zersk
2010-03-01, 10:44 PM
Reminds me of Avatar...

I guess that could work. But my idea was that huge amounts of the Helium were encased in the rock. Like, about half of it. But that DOES seem a bit odd.

Echowinds
2010-03-02, 04:55 AM
It doesn't need to make scientific sense in our own physics. A bit of mystery goes a long way in the world; you don't need to explain everything.

So floating islands exist - except no one knows how they float. Heck, you can just say gravity works oddly in certain parts of the world. Who knows.

ref
2010-03-02, 10:59 AM
Works with the idea that the gnomes aren't showing all their secrets. Especially to humans, since the gnomes know they'll be dangerous with the technology and the natural aggressivity.

Tulio d Bard
2010-03-02, 07:29 PM
This gas thing doesn't work. Where will the water tables be? Without rivers or any other water source the gnomes would have left the mountains long ago.

I vote for unknown.

Maximum Zersk
2010-03-02, 07:39 PM
Yeah, okay.

Szilard
2010-03-02, 08:12 PM
Unknown makes it more awesome.

Also, what did we ever decide about dinosaurs, or are we no longer considering them?

CrimsonAngel
2010-03-02, 08:12 PM
I'de love to do some animal and plant sketches.

Maximum Zersk
2010-03-02, 08:19 PM
I put the dinos aside until we get to the fauna. So, no, they're not gone yet.

Go ahead and draw the sketches, Crimson. The more the martyr!

Or was it, the more the wartier? :smallconfused:

Tulio d Bard
2010-03-02, 08:25 PM
We should keep working with other subjects besides the map, since there's actually only one person doing that. Maybe 2 or 3 topics at the same time could be handled easily.

BTW, I almost did double posting to save the project lol.

*EDIT: Banners be needed*

CrimsonAngel
2010-03-02, 08:34 PM
Sorry people, kinda lazy today. What kind of plants live here?

Szilard
2010-03-02, 08:37 PM
We have no idea. Make stuff up. That's the point.

Maximum Zersk
2010-03-02, 08:37 PM
Well, if we have the map, we can work on the rest of it.

What we've got is:

Ocean on the east, Desert on the west. Mountains between. Floating Islands above mountains. Two major drainage basins, each flowing into two gulfs. Croc-men live on river and coast, Gnomes on mountains, and humans everywhere.

I'll Try to make a Banner.

I was guessing something creative for the plants. Any ideas people?

Felixaar
2010-03-02, 08:40 PM
I would actually not be in favour of leaving the floating islands unexplained, mostly because that seems like a super-lame-cop-out to me. I do, however, suggest we table it for the time being.

As for fauna - the question is whether we want the world to be cultivated or still wild. My vote is for wild (mostly because both my other worlds are cultivated), so a lot of stretches devoid of humanity would be involved. Megafauna is a neat idea. I don't know about Dinosaurs, but large creatures of one type or another is good. A few collossal creatures would be fun, too - perhaps on the other side of those mountains. And sea monsters. Gotta have sea monsters.

CrimsonAngel
2010-03-02, 08:44 PM
I guess i'll just make some based on habitats.

Tulio d Bard
2010-03-02, 08:53 PM
As for fauna - the question is whether we want the world to be cultivated or still wild. My vote is for wild (mostly because both my other worlds are cultivated), so a lot of stretches devoid of humanity would be involved. Megafauna is a neat idea. I don't know about Dinosaurs, but large creatures of one type or another is good. A few collossal creatures would be fun, too - perhaps on the other side of those mountains. And sea monsters. Gotta have sea monsters.

Yay! Sea Monsters!

I think there's not too much to change about plants besides size and lesser details so that they continue being plants (unless we want walking carnivorous raging nettles). Maybe some kind of vine covering the forest's floor, human-sized flowers, bioluminescent trees. And don't forget the old n' good fungi. Blood-drinking fungi.

ref
2010-03-02, 09:04 PM
Maybe a rare plant that has complicated requirements to live, but in secret places in the mountains, those conditions exist, and the gnomes know how to process this plant to make islands float.

Er... makes little to no sense, I know...

Kurien
2010-03-02, 09:04 PM
I thought of a carnivorous, aquatic plant similar to bladderwort, only large enough to suck in decent sized fish.

Pitcher plants large enough for small mammals, birds and reptiles to be trapped inside?

Creatures the size of some of the Colossi from Shadow of the Colossus?

Electric cuttlefish that dwell in massive bromeliad-like plants?

CrimsonAngel
2010-03-02, 09:27 PM
Right now i've drawn a few flowers, a tall maybe swampy one with a horrible smell and taste, a floating one for water that's edible and has a huge poulaation, a large yellow flower that's open durin the day absorbing sunlight and closes at night and glows. It can be used in lamps because (REASON). I also have a realy pointy and poisonous flower, and lastly a plant were it's flowers look like angry tribal masks. I uploaded them all to facebook via DSi, so pics are coming up. Excuse my proportionaly insane drawings.

CrimsonAngel
2010-03-02, 09:32 PM
Please forgive the double post.
Floater
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e381/CrimsonAngelChris/pictures/111floatingflower.jpg
Glower
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e381/CrimsonAngelChris/pictures/111lampflower.jpg
Uhhh, pricker? poisoner?
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e381/CrimsonAngelChris/pictures/111sharpflower.jpg
Sheilder
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e381/CrimsonAngelChris/pictures/111sheildflower.jpg
stincker
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e381/CrimsonAngelChris/pictures/111smellyflower.jpg

Maximum Zersk
2010-03-02, 09:40 PM
Awesome. I like the Shields going GRRRR!

Okay, now to look at them closely:

Would the floater need roots? If it's floating on water, it would absorb the water it's floating on.

The Glower seems good. So, people would grow them to use as lanterns, eh?

Not too bad.

MEAN MASK GRRR!!!

The stinkers look like the plants in The Wind Waker. :smalltongue:

Felixaar
2010-03-03, 02:05 AM
(unless we want walking carnivorous raging nettles).

I'd watch that movie.

Maximum Zersk
2010-03-06, 02:38 PM
So, curious, what would an animal in a swamp look like? Meaning, what things must it have?

I was thinking of designing some animals for the swamp climates.

Je dit Viola
2010-03-06, 05:08 PM
Well, first and foremost, it has to thrive and survive there. Meaning amphibious creatures are pretty great. Also, scaley creatures such as gators and snakes and frogs seem to like it there. Spiders, too, especially poisonous ones, and birds would also be common, landing on the partially sumberged trees.
Some fish would also live there.

So, I'm thinking that what would work well are amphibious giant snakes, lizardlike (dragonlike?) beasts, large birds, and other things like that, would be the staple animals living there.

Tulio d Bard
2010-03-06, 07:51 PM
I think swamp creatures (insects, animals and others) should be small. There isn't much space to fly or walk due to the type of plants that exist in such environment, and the water isn't very deep too. So lots of birds (small/medium sized ones), mammals, reptiles, amphibious and fishes shouldn't be bigger than a jaguar.

You can see some examples of Brazilian Pantanal's fauna here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantanal).

CrimsonAngel
2010-03-06, 07:56 PM
Fire breathing Tucan.

Tulio d Bard
2010-03-06, 08:00 PM
I've got a question: Will Gods (or God) be real?

Maximum Zersk
2010-03-06, 08:36 PM
Well, we could go the belief way. If enough people practice a set of beliefs, then it will be true. On the other hand, we could have a set pantheon or creator. Whichever one.

I've drawn some swamp creatures, by the way. I'll put them up later.

Tulio d Bard
2010-03-06, 09:47 PM
'Cause Religion can explain things that science can't (floating islands for example :smallwink:). We can say that the gnomes were being hunted and were near extinction, so their god "took them to the skies".

CrimsonAngel
2010-03-06, 09:51 PM
Any feedback on the firebreathing Rucans? No? :smallfrown::smalltongue:

Tulio d Bard
2010-03-06, 09:55 PM
Any feedback on the firebreathing Rucans? No? :smallfrown::smalltongue:

Let's wait for the drawings. :smallbiggrin:

CrimsonAngel
2010-03-06, 10:03 PM
OK, google image Tucan, then imagine it thrusting forward with its mouth open, fire streaming forth.

CrimsonAngel
2010-03-06, 10:04 PM
http://www.dailygalaxy.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/12/04/tucan.jpg

Maximum Zersk
2010-03-06, 10:05 PM
You do know how impractical it would be to have the ability to breath fire when your habitat is 1. filled with trees and plants, 2. very moist, and 3. filled with trees and plants.

...But it's just so damn AWESOME!

CrimsonAngel
2010-03-06, 10:13 PM
It could live in the floating islands.

Maximum Zersk
2010-03-06, 10:16 PM
Hm, true enough. That seems okay then.

By the way, I'm going to update the OP. I'll put up an explanation of what we've got so far.

CrimsonAngel
2010-03-06, 10:17 PM
Muahaha! LET THERE BE FIRE!

Tulio d Bard
2010-03-06, 11:29 PM
All praise the Almighty Drake Tucan, Lord of the <insert world's name here>-an Sky!

Brennan
2010-03-06, 11:43 PM
Brennan, reporting for duty. I'm good for mapping, drawing, chronology and all that stuff.

Why don't we go for something like how the Warcraft world manages technology? One race is really, really advanced, and the others are in the earliest stages of the renaissance? That would probably allow the widest scope of minds to add to the mix. (Some people are better with clockpunk, some are better with sword/sorcery, etc, this would allow almost everyone to have something to add.)

Another idea would be multiple planes of differing levels of technology but... I don't really like that idea, lol

Maximum Zersk
2010-03-07, 12:05 AM
Read the rest of the thread. :smalltongue:

What we have right now is that there are three races, gnomes (industrial), croc-men(agricultural), and humans(ferocious). The technology would be best described as steampunk, cluckpunk, and alchemyounk mixed in with low magic

Echowinds
2010-03-07, 04:09 AM
To be honest, since no creature in our actual world has the capability to create fire within themselves (seriously, how do you do that without killing yourself?), I don't really know how to justify it. Remember the world is significantly low magic, so you can't just say "a wizard did it". Even if it's biologically sustainable, what use is breathing fire that will consume a great amount of chemical energy? Kinetic weapons on a bird such as claws and beak attacks, or chemical weapons such as poison and stench may be far more effective forms of defence/hunting mechanisms. I hope we are trying to sustain a sort of believability over "awesomeness". :smallwink:

Technology will no doubt spread if there isn't a huge isolationist culture within the technologically advanced people, especially so if it's to their benefit to do so. I recommend making the Gnomes being equally as bad as the humans, making them widely arrogant and racist. They also should periodically terrorize the humans with attacks to "keep them in their place", and they see humans as sub-intellectual brutes. Of course, some of the gnomes aren't like that, but they should be the free thinking unorthodox sect within their society.

A lot of the humans should have a sort of a crusade mentality against the Gnomes though, and tries to push back the "terrible short heretics that 'breathes fire' (advanced guns?)" from their attacks on human lands. Of course, they could do little with their backwards tech and weaponry that is roughly 3 centuries apart (say, 15th vs 18th century).

There should be a neo-colonialism relationship between the croc-men and the gnomes. The gnomes manufacture a lot of stuff that the croc-men likes in return for cheap raw material/food from the bounties of the ocean and the surrounding low lands. This is especially important considering the hate between the humans and the Gnomes, with the humans occupying most of the plains and the low hills which evidently is most productive. I still need to conjure up a proper explanation how the Gnomes just can't carve out some land to hold on though with their superior tech.

CrimsonAngel
2010-03-07, 09:16 AM
OK guys, what could possibly justify a fire breathing Tucan?

Let's go cut ope a Charmander.

ref
2010-03-07, 01:51 PM
If they live in the islands, maybe they are peaceful enough that gnomes can use the fire to ignite some things that the foo-punk tech level has.

CrimsonAngel
2010-03-07, 03:55 PM
Nice idea.


Now how do ya'll feel about Raptors! (Theres no phyco smile smiley so imagine a cross beteen :smallfurious: and :smallbiggrin:)

Tulio d Bard
2010-03-07, 04:16 PM
To be honest, since no creature in our actual world has the capability to create fire within themselves (seriously, how do you do that without killing yourself?), I don't really know how to justify it. Remember the world is significantly low magic, so you can't just say "a wizard did it". Even if it's biologically sustainable, what use is breathing fire that will consume a great amount of chemical energy? Kinetic weapons on a bird such as claws and beak attacks, or chemical weapons such as poison and stench may be far more effective forms of defence/hunting mechanisms. I hope we are trying to sustain a sort of believability over "awesomeness". :smallwink:

Maybe we can't say "a wizard did it", but we can say "God did it". And that's why I'm completly against real Gods in our world. I don't think we should use these "Tukes", but if we do there's always the Rule of Cool (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RuleOfCool).


Technology will no doubt spread if there isn't a huge isolationist culture within the technologically advanced people, especially so if it's to their benefit to do so. I recommend making the Gnomes being equally as bad as the humans, making them widely arrogant and racist. They also should periodically terrorize the humans with attacks to "keep them in their place", and they see humans as sub-intellectual brutes. Of course, some of the gnomes aren't like that, but they should be the free thinking unorthodox sect within their society.

The gnomes certainly fear something about humans. That's why they keep attacking. Maybe Humans can use magic much more powerful and easier. Maybe they have unknown psionic/mental powers. Or else there are much more humans than gnomes (see the movie "A Bug's Life" :smalltongue:).


A lot of the humans should have a sort of a crusade mentality against the Gnomes though, and tries to push back the "terrible short heretics that 'breathes fire' (advanced guns?)" from their attacks on human lands. Of course, they could do little with their backwards tech and weaponry that is roughly 3 centuries apart (say, 15th vs 18th century).

I think there might be some small terrorist/guerrilla groups attacking the main gnome cities. Something like The Resistance in Azure City Gobbotopia.


There should be a neo-colonialism relationship between the croc-men and the gnomes. The gnomes manufacture a lot of stuff that the croc-men likes in return for cheap raw material/food from the bounties of the ocean and the surrounding low lands. This is especially important considering the hate between the humans and the Gnomes, with the humans occupying most of the plains and the low hills which evidently is most productive. I still need to conjure up a proper explanation how the Gnomes just can't carve out some land to hold on though with their superior tech.

Gnomes fear that if they begin attacking humans too hard, they'll release their full potential (be it magical or mental). And they always remember that waiting can be much worse too.

*EDIT: I don't think all these wars are necessary. Peace, partially at least, would make everything easier. Most of our world's known areas could live peacefully, though some are constantly in war (not always). Gnomes may fight their own kin too, Saltlings x Riverlings, Human Civil Wars, etc. It could be more political and economical than territorial. Also, there're always rebel groups messing with the System. Even if gnomes change their thoughts and decide to attack other races, they'll find out that there are too many humans and crocs living in their territory and also gnomes living in the enemy's lands, so fighting wouldn't be an option anymore.

Maximum Zersk
2010-03-10, 10:21 PM
To be honest, since no creature in our actual world has the capability to create fire within themselves (seriously, how do you do that without killing yourself?), I don't really know how to justify it. Remember the world is significantly low magic, so you can't just say "a wizard did it". Even if it's biologically sustainable, what use is breathing fire that will consume a great amount of chemical energy? Kinetic weapons on a bird such as claws and beak attacks, or chemical weapons such as poison and stench may be far more effective forms of defence/hunting mechanisms. I hope we are trying to sustain a sort of believability over "awesomeness". :smallwink:

Our "actual" world also doesn't have gnomes, clockpunk-style technology, magic, anthropomorphic crocodiles, and flying islands. :smalltongue:

Not that the suspension of disbelief should be streched to the point that it's broken, but as I see it, fantasy is where you are able to do things that aren't possible in our world. So, if things like floating islands are possible, as long as it stays consistent to a set of rules, anything is really possible. And nothing really screams 'NO PIROTUCS LOLZ' really.

And besides, there are a lot more ridiculous settings out there. For example, right now, I'm watching TTGL. :smallcool:

Echowinds
2010-03-11, 03:24 AM
Terrain can be widely off the charts because its existence forms the base of the world. It is what that changes civilization and biology, not the other way around. In real life, no animals have features that does not in some way adapt to their surroundings. This is why most worlds are usually formed by having a basis of the world's terrain before working on the fauna.

If you can justify a creature that can breath fire that is critical to its survival (something that cannot otherwise be done with simpler physical and chemical methods), I don't see the need of including these sort of creatures. A sensible world is one that everything makes sense, and unless stated to be mythical, creatures should be down-to-earth. However, no where does it state that realistic creatures need to be boring though - they just need to fit in the whole equation.

In extension, technology, civilizations and buildings should be rather pragmatic and practical most of the time too, if the aim is to create a believable world.

Frankly, ridiculous settings are far easier to do then realistic ones. TTGL may be fun, but the setting's completely nonsensical and it thrives on that. :smallamused: As far as sci-fi anime comparison goes, a little closer to Planetes and maybe Evangelion may be more apt than TTGL.

Maximum Zersk
2010-03-11, 03:35 AM
Point taken, I guess. :smalltongue:

Yes, Evangelion does seem more apt of a setting to compare to, I guess.

Well, let's think about the terrain on the west side of the mountains, then, shall we?

According to our map, there are two major drainage basins, and plains in between. This means that there would be large grasslands, correct? SO how about we try to design some creatures for the grasslands, hm?

Tulio d Bard
2010-03-11, 08:49 PM
Short-legged green tigers? Elephant-sized bulls? A non-flying bird?

And Raptors!

Maximum Zersk
2010-03-15, 12:17 AM
Raptors might work actually. They'd be able to hide in the tall grass, being small.

Any idea for maybe a type of herbivore? Besides the already mentioned bull, of course.

Tulio d Bard
2010-03-15, 02:28 PM
I drew some sketches in Paint (notice that they're almost perfect):

*The green tiger-like animal. There was no reason for not drawing the eyes, but then I thought it could be blind too.
http://i711.photobucket.com/albums/ww112/tulicloure/GitP/Tiger2.png

*The horned chick-like animal. The horns are used to dig and self-defense, as it can neither run (very short legs) nor fly.
http://i711.photobucket.com/albums/ww112/tulicloure/GitP/Chick.png

*And then we have a huge herbivore marsupial animal. It sleeps most of the time (almost all of it), so it needs a very hard and tough skin. The reason for its drowsiness is unknown until now.
http://i711.photobucket.com/albums/ww112/tulicloure/GitP/sleepy2.png

I think we need some small animals now.


Also, I made these masterwork Tukes (Fire Breathing Tucan, Drake Tucan, etc) drawings (they were the first ones I did, as you may notice by their astonishing quality):
*Tuke burning the forest ground for the hell of it:
http://i711.photobucket.com/albums/ww112/tulicloure/GitP/FBT.jpg

*Tuke hunting some sparrows ('Cause he likes them well toasted):
http://i711.photobucket.com/albums/ww112/tulicloure/GitP/FBTH.jpg

*A distant cousin (Turke?:smallbiggrin:):
http://i711.photobucket.com/albums/ww112/tulicloure/GitP/firebreathingturtlewithgraffitiback.jpg


Next time I'll remember to save them in PNG. JPEG just ruined them (even more).:smallannoyed:

Maximum Zersk
2010-03-15, 02:37 PM
That's... surprisungly good for a sketch in MS Paint.

The Giger seems interesting.

Horny Chick! :smallbiggrin: Kinda reminds me of a chocobo.

The marsupial-like thing looks a bit like a blob.

Tukes and Turkes! Yay! :smallbiggrin:

npc revolution
2010-03-18, 03:19 PM
NPC Rev reporting for duty!

I'd be happy to take on some politics and history. Perhaps there was an era where Croc-men or Humans were enslaved by the Gnomes?

Maybe the Gnomes literally look down on the others from up in the sky. Or some prophesy says that if a human or croc-man gets on the islands, they'll fall down.

I'm also thinking massive under-swamp cities for croc-men. Perhaps they've been drained by the Gnomes/Humans for their own use.

If any of these are good then let me know. :smallsmile:

Maximum Zersk
2010-03-22, 08:33 PM
NPC Rev reporting for duty!

I'd be happy to take on some politics and history. Perhaps there was an era where Croc-men or Humans were enslaved by the Gnomes?

Maybe the Gnomes literally look down on the others from up in the sky. Or some prophesy says that if a human or croc-man gets on the islands, they'll fall down.

I'm also thinking massive under-swamp cities for croc-men. Perhaps they've been drained by the Gnomes/Humans for their own use.

If any of these are good then let me know. :smallsmile:

Possibly, but I was thinking a more-or-less friendly relations between the gnomes and croc-men.

The croc-men cities I imagined would be Mesoamerican in design. Which Mesoamerican Culture? Not sure yet.

ref
2010-03-23, 05:37 PM
The good thing is that we can reflect two of them.

Tulio d Bard
2010-03-23, 06:41 PM
The croc-men cities I imagined would be Mesoamerican in design. Which Mesoamerican Culture? Not sure yet.

Well, assuming that we only have crocs, humans, and gnomes in the whole world, I don't think there would be a single culture for each race. I mean, they're everywhere and culture is closely related to environment, climate, fauna, etc. So, croc-men living in the swamps are supposed to have a completely different culture from the ones living in the middle of a desert (both near a river).

Maximum Zersk
2010-03-23, 07:21 PM
In the middle of the desert near a river? :smallconfused:

What I meant was, the major croc-men civilizations in the area that we are focusing on.

Tulio d Bard
2010-03-23, 08:08 PM
In the middle of the desert near a river? :smallconfused:

What I meant was, the major croc-men civilizations in the area that we are focusing on.

Yeah, like the Nile (though it's in the desert, the river fertilizes the land around it). I understand what you're saying, what I was trying to say is that we can have those "underswamps" in some other continent/region. And now that I think of it, AFAIR, there are/were some swampy regions in Mexico.

Maximum Zersk
2010-03-23, 08:15 PM
Yeah, like the Nile (though it's in the desert, the river fertilizes the land around it). I understand what you're saying, what I was trying to say is that we can have those "underswamps" in some other continent/region. And now that I think of it, AFAIR, there are/were some swampy regions in Mexico.

Yes, but the area around the Nile is fertile is it not? It would take a little while to get to the desert from the shores.

Some swampy regions in Mexico, yes. That's where the Aztecs settled down.

Tulio d Bard
2010-03-23, 08:28 PM
I think Aztec-like cities would be good. It's something like this you were thinking of, isn't it? If so, what about all the sacrifices, imperialist expansions, war culture and such? Will croc-men be like this too? If they're too aggressive, gnomes and/or humans would try to push them back, I guess.

Maximum Zersk
2010-03-23, 08:31 PM
Mayans: "What about us? It was the Aztecs who sacrificed people alot!

Incas: "We're here too, man!"

Nazcas, Olmec, Teotihuacan: "Don't forget us! God, people don't even know who we are, do they?"

Soterion
2010-03-23, 08:42 PM
Nazcas, Olmec, : "Don't forget us! God, people don't even know who we are, do they?"

Well, maybe if you guys got off your duffs and did something, instead of lying around whining all the time, people would know who you are. Olmecs? "Ooh, we make these big stone heads that cause wrong-headed academics to hypothesize African colonization of the new world." Big freaking whoop! Get back to me when you devise a calendar system that predicts the apocalypse in my own lifetime.

Nazcas? Look, that froo-froo artistic phase, with the big stone landscape drawings? That was cute when you were in college, but here in the real world, people like sports, and that's why people like the Aztecs. The ball game, that's why. And it's not even like I can take one of those landscape drawings and put it on my wall! Stelae, now there are pieces of art that look good in your foyer. Way to specialize yourselves out of the market, losers.

Teotihuacan, I'll give credit where credit is due -- that Pyramid of the Sun is bitchin'. But what do people think of when they hear "pyramids"? That's right, Egyptians. Come up with an original architectural motif and we'll talk. Inverted domes! Yeah, that'd work. I'll have my people call your people.

Tulio d Bard
2010-03-23, 08:45 PM
Mayans: "What about us? It was the Aztecs who sacrificed people alot!

Incas: "We're here too, man!"

Nazcas, Olmec, Teotihuacan: "Don't forget us! God, people don't even know who we are, do they?"

:smallfrown: Sorry Mayans, Incas, Nazcas, Olmecs, Teotihuacan, Toltecs, Mixtecs, Zapotecs and all. I...I didn't mean...:smallfrown:
(Croc-men=Crocecs?:smallbiggrin:)

OK, I think I was being too hasty...

EDIT: Incas are South-American, but they're ok.

Maximum Zersk
2010-03-23, 08:45 PM
Well, maybe if you guys got off your duffs and did something, instead of lying around whining all the time, people would know who you are. Olmecs? "Ooh, we make these big stone heads that cause wrong-headed academics to hypothesize African colonization of the new world." Big freaking whoop! Get back to me when you devise a calendar system that predicts the apocalypse in my own lifetime.

Nazcas? Look, that froo-froo artistic phase, with the big stone landscape drawings? That was cute when you were in college, but here in the real world, people like sports, and that's why people like the Aztecs. The ball game, that's why. And it's not even like I can take one of those landscape drawings and put it on my wall! Stelae, now there are pieces of art that look good in your foyer. Way to specialize yourselves out of the market, losers.

Teotihuacan, I'll give credit where credit is due -- that Pyramid of the Sun is bitchin'. But what do people think of when they hear "pyramids"? That's right, Egyptians. Come up with an original architectural motive and we'll talk. Inverted domes! Yeah, that'd work. I'll have my people call your people.

For that, I award you a Sacrifical Knife trophy. :smallbiggrin:

Player
2010-03-23, 09:02 PM
Ferg! I have a great idea! >:-I

But when do we start the actual world building HMM?

I dont think much progress has been made in any aspect of it :smallsigh:

Anyways Id totally love to help with this.

Dibs on underwater city/impenatrable ancient fortress.

Maximum Zersk
2010-03-23, 09:04 PM
Wait, "Ferg"? Is that a food dish or something? :smallconfused::smalltongue:

And we ARE world-building, technically. We're working on the races right now.

And, of course, welcome aboard.

Tulio d Bard
2010-03-23, 09:09 PM
We're trying to keep the work as scientific and rational as possible. It seems that the project will take a long time to achieve its end (maybe a few dozen threads?).

And we already have the Tukes!

Soterion
2010-03-23, 09:19 PM
For that, I award you a Sacrifical Knife trophy. :smallbiggrin:

You got to be in it to win it in this game, is all I'm saying. I remember when I sat down with the Assyria people. It was me, and the High Priest of Ashur, and Shamsi-Adad, and we had a decent spread of coffee and these little Akkadian pastries, don't look for them, you can't get them these days. And I said, "So what is it, exactly, that you hope to accomplish?"

Shamsi-Adad leaned forward. "Some kind of minor regional hegemony, maybe trade dominance."

"More temples to Assur in neighboring cities," put in the High Priest.

"You guys are shooting awfully low here," I said. "I mean it's not hardly worth going into full campaign-mode for anything less than kingdom status. But for you--for you guys, I'm thinking empire."

They said nothing, but I could tell by the way their eyes glittered I'd hooked them.

I steepled my fingers. "Let me ask you: How committed are you to this whole 'neolithic' thing you've got going on?"

Shamsi-Adad and the High Priest shared a glance. "Not very," said Shamsi-Adad.

"Perfect. That's exactly what I wanted to hear, because I have one word for you: bronze. It's the coming thing, all the regional city-states are going to be using it next campaign season, and I know a guy, so you'll be able to get it practically at cost."

"I don't know..." said the High Priest uneasily.

"Trust me. When you're taking the head of an Amorite raider off with a single blow of your khopesh as your victorious armies rampage through Canaan, you'll thank me."

We shook on it. The High Priest complimented me on how good the coffee service is--"It's Javanese," I said--and I showed them out. I crossed them out of my events planner and turned to the next page. A pair of brothers from Etruria. Could be interesting, I thought, taking note of the small NB that said, "Not Etruscan. New City (?)".

Time to make history.

Maximum Zersk
2010-03-23, 09:22 PM
So, wait, what happened to the wolf?

Player
2010-03-23, 09:29 PM
Wait, "Ferg"? Is that a food dish or something? :smallconfused::smalltongue:

And we ARE world-building, technically. We're working on the races right now.

And, of course, welcome aboard.


Ferg is generally the sound I make when im frustrated,and I had an idea for a race, but im not sure its plausable..Was sorta thinking a city of machines fueld by magic or spirits.Of course these would be old tech and be fueld by power infused crystals of some sort. The idea was the spirits could inhabit mechanical shells powered by a crystal containing their spirit. The crystal idea was sort of like the heart of the mechanical shells, with faint nerves going all over the clockwork so they could feel things.Its an idea i've had for the longest time,and I actually have alot of back story for it as to how it was started,and such.

Well thats a short description of it I could go into greater detail.

Maximum Zersk
2010-03-23, 09:31 PM
Er, I hate to break it to you, but we already made our minds that the main three races were the humans, gnomes, and crocecs. Of course, your idea could fit in with a group of gnomes. Might need a little bit of tweaking.

Soterion
2010-03-23, 09:36 PM
Crocecs is such an ugly word. Not euphonious at all. How about...Aztigators? Mayadiles? Caimen? Crocmaxtli?

EDITED TO ADD: Ooh, how about Crocoatl? That combines the "Croc" with Coatl, which is Nahuatl for "serpent".

Player
2010-03-23, 09:38 PM
I didnt expect it to make it at all. I thought it was going to be pushed aside and labeled *UNREALISTIC*.

I dont mind at all about tweaking infact I would encourage it,because I made the idea but when it gets down to harry details I wouldnt know where to take them.Realism was also not taken into account when I thought this up it just seemed to be an intresting idea.

I also didnt expect this to be a Major race, I was thinking this group would have one large city in the moutains or something of the sort. I didn't expect Gnomes to be a part of it, but seeing as they are generally thought of when it comes to unusual tech in D&D its ok with me.

If you need any info let me know,and what tweaks where you thinking of?

Maximum Zersk
2010-03-23, 09:39 PM
Not Aztigators... Maybe Mayadiles... Caimen sounds too much like the other species... Possibly Cocmaxtli...

I say Mayadiles. For now.

Tulio d Bard
2010-03-23, 09:46 PM
If we use this crystals' idea, I believe it will be in a gnomish city. Unless...

It doesn't use science to make the technology work: it uses a kind of magic. We could assume it's a human city that is trying to fight the gnomes' machines. And if it's using spirits (souls), it gotta be secret (people would get revolted if they find out).

Of course, this situation can't last long. If people discover that their beloved ones' souls are being used to help humans fight gnomes, everything would be destroyed.

EDIT: Crocec wasn't serious. Crocoalt nears perfection.

Player
2010-03-23, 10:00 PM
It uses more magic than science from what ive written down,and its not meant to be forcefully powered by the dead's souls. I like the crystal idea because it gives them a weakness. (Ex: Weaken the spirits form enough it would end up being forced to leave,be destroyed,or stay trapped inside) I would see other races getting terribly angry at this, so the cover story for now is they are sort of golems with personality or something of the sort.


The crystal is supposed to boost the spirits power,and help them control their new body.The downside of choosing to come back to the world is the dangers of using the Autmatons.

And gonna say this again for emphasis, If you want to know anything about em just ask.

Maximum Zersk
2010-03-23, 10:04 PM
But crystals seem so... cliched.

Tulio d Bard
2010-03-23, 10:12 PM
But crystals seem so... cliched.

Like...FF5...

Player
2010-03-23, 10:16 PM
But crystals seem so... cliched.
Indeed :smallsigh:

I had no other idea of what they could be other than crystals. Egg looking devices to contain them? Some sort of clockwork heart? The skull of the actual inhabitant covered in metal plates? To some form this could be a sort of necromancy but I didnt intend on this being based on dark magic.

Ill think of some other things that could be the heart of the machines.

Being imbued/imbeded in the body?

Using a piece of your previous body to have the power origonate from?

Some other kind of mineral such as that star metal mentioned in the comic (I didnt memorize the name feel free to correct me).

An Orb of some sort?

Im not sure ill have to think for a while,and the idea of necromancy being involved in this intriges me...

Tulio d Bard
2010-03-23, 10:22 PM
Wait a sec! I think we're losing focus. Someone (MZ) must list all (or almost) topics discused, showing if they're finished or not.

Good night you all. :smallsmile:

Player
2010-03-23, 10:27 PM
Night, and I do belive my idea threw you guys off :smalleek:

Sorry,ill try to think up key aspects of the race.

For now I think ill head to bed as well,sleep does ones tired mind wonders.

Maximum Zersk
2010-03-23, 10:27 PM
On it. May take a while.

Soterion
2010-03-23, 10:28 PM
Crocoatl Warrior.

http://i948.photobucket.com/albums/ad326/finn_de_siecle/img013.jpg

Maximum Zersk
2010-03-23, 10:31 PM
:smalleek: Oi! WAY too violent!

My idea for the croc-men was a more peaceful race.

Soterion
2010-03-23, 10:34 PM
I apologize. It's just that you're basing a fantasy race off a family of carnivores notorious for grabbing struggling wildebeest in their savage jaws and pulling them bodily underwater to devour at their leisure. "Peaceful" is not a word I would associate with them. Forgive me if I misunderstood.

Maximum Zersk
2010-03-23, 10:35 PM
Er, um, yeah. Sorry 'bout not explaining that well.

ref
2010-03-24, 10:33 AM
For what I took reading Player's suggestion, it sounds almost like he's describing the "proto-race". ie, the race that once lived and started it all, now extinct, which split into the three races known today, each one evolving to adapt to the chosen environments and taking some aspect to hone, and they're now completely different races.

Like the gnomes took the magic-machines and evolved into (steampunk) tech-machines. We'd have to look into aspects that could define the other races too. With this, we're delving in history, too.

Zeful
2010-03-24, 11:50 AM
A crocodile skull is specialized for immense bite power, a feature suited for life as a top predator. I don't know the exact intelligence of crocodiles, but obviously the brain encased in their skull does not have the capacity for sapience and sentience. A creature with a crocodile head would have a brain the size and shape of one, and therefore is not nearly as intelligent as a human.Then you just alter the proportions. The muzzle becomes smaller as the brain cavity enlarges. They lose much of their biting power, but it's still going to be much greater than a human's.


Another feature of crocodiles is a sensitive area around a croc's mouth, similar to a fish's lateral line, detecting disturbances in the water. This sensory adaptation is used to locate prey. Would our crocodilian people have tis ability?

A crocodile mainly uses its powerful tail to swim, so logical a crocman that can also swim well should have such a tail. But, if bipedal, the pelvis would not fit the tail along with the gluteal muscles, which are essential for humans to be upright. What I'm saying is that a big tail does not work an a human.I don't see why the croc-men wouldn't have a lateral line, it's an amphibious race.

As for the tail, one could have the crocmen be a semi-uright race, similar to uhtaraptors in that the tail has evolved to balance the creature out when upright.

Though being a semi-amphibious race, language is going to be harder than picking out biological details. If their vocal cords were similar to ours, they'd be unable to speak under-water. But if they were similar to say, dolphins, they wouldn't be able to create sounds that we can (and vice versa), making communication ridiculously difficult. As I see it, they're going to need some form of sign-language to communicate.

Player
2010-03-24, 05:38 PM
For what I took reading Player's suggestion, it sounds almost like he's describing the "proto-race". ie, the race that once lived and started it all, now extinct, which split into the three races known today, each one evolving to adapt to the chosen environments and taking some aspect to hone, and they're now completely different races.

Like the gnomes took the magic-machines and evolved into (steampunk) tech-machines. We'd have to look into aspects that could define the other races too. With this, we're delving in history, too.

Intresting idea...

I dont see how gnomes, crocmen, and humans evolve from a magic race of machines,but it could make sence if they once dominated the planet then quickly adapted themselves to their envirement.

Such as forming elongated skulls and powerfull jaws to help battle the creatures of the swamp. Humans generally move from place to place,so being nomads they would need to develop a body that could withstand most climates.Gnomes I guess would be the closest ancestors to the living machines.Considering the stero typical gnome for me is one who works inside all day figureing out a way to shoot explosives shells out of siege engines at a higher velocity using steam, I would see them as the most closely related.

The making of weapons if that were the protorace would exist later after all races had evolved into their second generation forms. The first generation would be very peacefull and focus on advancements in magic, and technology getting far with both by building early airships,and steam powered facilitys among other things.


Of course this is all if they ARE the proto-race, and if they evolved/taught other races things when they were "Gone".One example being a gnome engineer discovers a proto-race air ship and attempts to recreate the technology using things like propellers,and metal work rather than the large sales,wood frames,and magic to propel it forward.


Is their anything I should think up other than working on these guys? History of the croc race? Important events? Secrets/mysterious of the world?

Maximum Zersk
2010-03-24, 06:08 PM
Actually, in my view at least, the gnomes are an amalgamation of the stereotypical dwarf and the stereotypical gnome. So, while they are mechanized, they live in the mountains (something we agreed on)

The idea of the croc-men was a more agricultural and peaceful society. Actually, this may be a bit funny:

Humans, warlike. Mystical/Magical Powers.

Mayadiles, peaceful. Extremely strong bodies.

Gnomes, short, stocky bodies. Mechanized.

Je dit Viola
2010-03-24, 06:13 PM
Ha, yes; that is funny. I like it, though.

I think that the Gnomes and the Humans should have a little more racial differences, though, unless they're extremely closer related than the Mayadiles (their official name?), and if they're all descended from the single race.

Or, a long time has passed instead.

About how long ago should the ancient civilization have flourished, then evolved and diminished?

Player
2010-03-24, 06:26 PM
HugeEdit: Mis interpreted the question

They could have large cultural diffrences for the gnomes and humans.

One group of the, for now im gonna call em the Dakar would have stayed in the moutains secluded,the rest would head off to discover diffrent parts of the world,and doing so they had to adapt to where they settled.

Not sure Ill have to wip up some ideas.

I mostly thought about their tech,art styles,architechture,and some history...:smallannoyed:

They would most likely have weapons now obviously to so ill draw out some possible weapon designs.

Tulio d Bard
2010-03-24, 07:33 PM
I don't see why the croc-men wouldn't have a lateral line, it's an amphibious race.

[...]

Though being a semi-amphibious race, language is going to be harder than picking out biological details. If their vocal cords were similar to ours, they'd be unable to speak under-water. But if they were similar to say, dolphins, they wouldn't be able to create sounds that we can (and vice versa), making communication ridiculously difficult. As I see it, they're going to need some form of sign-language to communicate.

I think crocodiles are reptiles, not amphibious. It "solves" the water-talking problem too: they do not spend much time completely underwater (neighter speak submersed)

Kurien
2010-03-24, 08:29 PM
I am drawing some concept sketches of a specimen of the Crocoatli. I don't know much about about Central and South American culture, but would our "peaceful" species have use for something like a Macana? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macana)

Logically, a creature that has evolved sentience/sapience and higher brain functioning would have developed a larger brain case, and especially the frontal lobe would be enlarged. I'm drawing it with a highly domed head, unlike real reptiles. Also, he has quite erect posture, not as hunched over as some of you may have imagined. Also, I believe they should have almost vestigial tails, so that's how I'm drawing him. Also, crocoatls should be partially endothermic like a great white shark or else they would be rather inactive, spending 90% of the day sunning themselves on rocks.

[hr]
Also, I say we break the Rule of Three and introduce a fourth species, the ant like species I suggested earlier. I think the maximum number of extant species should be five, with additional subpecies:

Saltwater Crocoatl (the bigger kind), Freshwater Crocoatl
Gnomes: fairly homogeneous features.
Humans: Equatorial Human (Largest group) Dark skinned, dark haired (Light coloured hair is uncommon),
North Human- Vaguely aboriginal, with yellowish skin and almond shaped eyes. Dark hair dominant.
South Human - similar to the Norse. Fair skinned. fair haired.
Formites: All of them are the same.

More on Formites:

Small. Workers weigh from 45 to 55 pounds.
Fairly intelligent.
Fill the role as the underground people/race.
The only extant subspecies is the temperate Formite, living in subterranean colonies of 200-1200 individuals.
The tree dwelling Formite subspecies died out decades ago due to genocide by humans.
Formites live in remote sandy/clay desert climates. The thick layer of sand is perfect for tunneling.
Formites are largely dismissed by all the other species, especially the humans. They see them as no better than animals, and conduct raids to capture Formites as slave labour. Formites basically have no rights in other settlements, generally avoid them at all costs.
There are some Formite sympathizers, who teach their slaves skilled trades such as metalworking and construction, crafts they have proven to excel in. (Several Formites needed to perform. Need two just to swing the hammer.)
Some formites have "escaped", though, and brought their knowledge to the colonies.

Soterion
2010-03-24, 08:33 PM
Kurien, did you see my picture upthread? Crocoatl totally have use for a macana.

Player
2010-03-24, 08:37 PM
I love your Formites Kurien :smallbiggrin:

This world does need a supposed "lower life form".

Every world needs one,and man I wish I could draw detailed sketches.

Maximum Zersk
2010-03-24, 08:47 PM
I am drawing some concept sketches of a specimen of the Crocoatli. I don't know much about about Central and South American culture, but would our "peaceful" species have use for something like a Macana? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macana)


They probably would, for fighting, because no matter how peaceful, there would still be fighting within the race and Seakin vs. Riverkin, possibly. And can't forget the humans, nosiree.

Also, This may help for researching Mesoamerica (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesoamerica).



Logically, a creature that has evolved sentience/sapience and higher brain functioning would have developed a larger brain case, and especially the frontal lobe would be enlarged. I'm drawing it with a highly domed head, unlike real reptiles. Also, he has quite erect posture, not as hunched over as some of you may have imagined. Also, I believe they should have almost vestigial tails, so that's how I'm drawing him. Also, crocoatls should be partially endothermic like a great white shark or else they would be rather inactive, spending 90% of the day sunning themselves on rocks.


Sounds about right.



Also, I say we break the Rule of Three and introduce a fourth species, the ant like species I suggested earlier. I think the maximum number of extant species should be five, with additional subpecies:


Hmmm, might be a problem going for five. More races means bigger world to fit them all.

Your race idea might work, and we could fit in other races later if we ever expand.



Saltwater Crocoatl (the bigger kind), Freshwater Crocoatl
Gnomes: fairly homogeneous features.
Humans: Equatorial Human (Largest group) Dark skinned, dark haired (Light coloured hair is uncommon),
North Human- Vaguely aboriginal, with yellowish skin and almond shaped eyes. Dark hair dominant.
South Human - similar to the Norse. Fair skinned. fair haired.
Formites: All of them are the same.


Sounds good, though:

What other differences would the Mayadiles/Crocoatle have between river and sea? Any ideas?

Gnomes. I would imagine that there would be ethnicities for them too, or else they'd have to be small in number.

Equatoral Humans. They sound about right, though I don't think we've talked about whether the area we're working on is on the equator or not. If not, I would imagine they'd have a different skin colour.

North Human: Seems right. Though, of course, don't take too much from the aboriginals. Just make a broad outline for them and go from there. Also, would they have the epicanthal fold?

South Humans: Again, depends on the position of our landmass.

Formites: Would depend on the amounts of them. But, if they're not fully sapient, they'd probably look the same.



More on Formites:

Small. Workers weigh from 45 to 55 pounds.
Fairly intelligent.
Fill the role as the underground people/race.
The only extant subspecies is the temperate Formite, living in subterranean colonies of 200-1200 individuals.
The tree dwelling Formite subspecies died out decades ago due to genocide by humans.
Formites live in remote sandy/clay desert climates. The thick layer of sand is perfect for tunneling.
Formites are largely dismissed by all the other species, especially the humans. They see them as no better than animals, and conduct raids to capture Formites as slave labour. Formites basically have no rights in other settlements, generally avoid them at all costs.
There are some Formite sympathizers, who teach their slaves skilled trades such as metalworking and construction, crafts they have proven to excel in. (Several Formites needed to perform. Need two just to swing the hammer.)
Some formites have "escaped", though, and brought their knowledge to the colonies.


Seems interesting.

I might work on the Gnomes some.

Soterion
2010-03-24, 08:58 PM
For Kurien, here's a Formite Slave I drew. I guess he works in the sugar mines or something.

http://i948.photobucket.com/albums/ad326/finn_de_siecle/img014.jpg

Tulio d Bard
2010-03-24, 09:23 PM
What other differences would the Mayadiles/Crocoatle have between river and sea? Any ideas?

We should choose if the first Crocs were River or Seakin. I think the Sea ones could come first, and then some went up the rivers and became a new subspecies. Life in the fresh water was easier, with lots of big mamals everywhere to feed them, smaller predators, shorter distances, etc., which explains their reduced size and strength. Saltlings, being very conservative, don't like their relatives' way of life. Sea-crocs are bigger, stronger and faster, while the River-people developed some divine magic (this can be explained saying that when coming up the river, Crocs found some ancient temples in the swamps, which Gods are now praised by them). Thus:

Sea: big, strong, agile, agressive, conservative, nomad;
River: archtects, priests, sacrifices;



Gnomes. I would imagine that there would be ethnicities for them too, or else they'd have to be small in number.


Surely, some gnomes stayed on earth rather than in the flying mountains. They could have founded some colonies and developed in a different way. Maybe some of them live in the underground and are blind in daylight. Others have big hair, feet and hands because they live in the forest.

Have we decided why gnomes don't get out of their flying isles?


For Kurien, here's a Formite Slave I drew. I guess he works in the sugar mines or something.
LOL

Maximum Zersk
2010-03-24, 09:28 PM
We should choose if the first Crocs were River or Seakin. I think the Sea ones could come first, and then some went up the rivers and became a new subspecies. Life in the fresh water was easier, with lots of big mamals everywhere to feed them, smaller predators, shorter distances, etc., which explains their reduced size and strength. Saltlings, being very conservative, don't like their relatives' way of life. Sea-crocs are bigger, stronger and faster, while the River-people developed some divine magic (this can be explained saying that when coming up the river, Crocs found some ancient temples in the swamps, which Gods are now praised by them). Thus:

Sea: big, strong, agile, agressive, conservative, nomad;
River: archtects, priests, sacrifices;



Surely, some gnomes stayed on earth rather than in the flying mountains. They could have founded some colonies and developed in a different way. Maybe some of them live in the underground and are blind in daylight. Others have big hair, feet and hands because they live in the forest.

Have we decided why gnomes don't get out of their flying isles?


LOL

Not sure about the magicky Mayadiles. I would imagine that it would be kind of a human-only ability, making them more than just the "Average boring beings". Divine power, maybe, but not arcane. It is low magic, afterall.

I would imagine that there are some settlements of Seakin. Maybe they've found a sustainable food-source?

Maybe teh flying isles are acutally quite nice?
I like the ideas for the gnomes.

Tulio d Bard
2010-03-24, 09:45 PM
Not sure about the magicky Mayadiles. I would imagine that it would be kind of a human-only ability, making them more than just the "Average boring beings". Divine power, maybe, but not arcane. It is low magic, afterall.

Yeah, not very accurate too. Some healings, advices, weather control and other things that can't be surely defined as divine interference (they ask their Gods for it, and, maybe, it happens). That's why they sacrifice (if they do).


I would imagine that there are some settlements of Seakin. Maybe they've found a sustainable food-source?


I don't know what could it be. Fishes and other water animals are constantly traveling. There aren't lots of animals living by the sea that could feed well a bigger-than-human reptile (there do are salt-water crocodiles, but I don't know what they eat or if they stay their whole life in the same place). They could be vegetarian, but it doesn't fit with (strong, big, fast) Crocs.

Maximum Zersk
2010-03-30, 01:23 AM
'Kay, here's the earlier world map, but now showing general ethnic/cultural areas.


http://i608.photobucket.com/albums/tt165/Zorosuke/GitpMapCultural.png


Black lines = Humans
Puplish lines = Mayadiles
Red lines = Gnomes

Tulio d Bard
2010-03-30, 09:45 PM
'Kay, here's the earlier world map, but now showing general ethnic/cultural areas.

Black lines = Humans
Puplish lines = Mayadiles
Red lines = Gnomes

Good, but we need some shore areas for the humans.

Maximum Zersk
2010-03-30, 10:21 PM
Of course. The map is just an extremely rough diagram. The humans will actually reach the coast, and a lot of the races land would overlap.

minored108
2010-03-31, 04:49 PM
Just putting a suggestion in: even though it might not make perfect sense to have the seacrocs build settlements, the image of those middle-american pyramids underwater is just too cool.

Je dit Viola
2010-04-01, 02:22 AM
Yes, that would be pretty cool. Building pyramid temples and other pyramids to their gods underwater.

The ones who live upstream more will probably build their temples in the middle of swamps, though. That would make more sense, and would make for great stories.

Maximum Zersk
2010-04-10, 02:20 PM
I think I might make a write-up for a northern river-mayadiles civilization. Also, I might start on a very basic language. I'll see how it turns out.

Soterion
2010-04-11, 12:13 PM
http://i948.photobucket.com/albums/ad326/finn_de_siecle/worldbuildingflat2-1.jpg

Maximum Zersk
2010-04-11, 01:40 PM
...Soterion, did you make that? That's... pretty amazing.

Soterion
2010-04-11, 03:02 PM
...Soterion, did you make that?

Yeah, it took me a couple of hours last night. Do you know how incredibly hard it is to find decent pictures of hands on Google Images? Luckily, I had the Apocalypto soundtrack for inspiration.

CWater
2010-04-11, 03:41 PM
Wow...that picture is really awesome!:smallsmile:
I've been following this thread for a while now, but have not dared to post before. I think this world you are creating is interesting indeed and it's always nice to see what new you guys come up with.:smalltongue:

Maximum Zersk
2010-04-11, 05:31 PM
Wow...that picture is really awesome!:smallsmile:
I've been following this thread for a while now, but have not dared to post before. I think this world you are creating is interesting indeed and it's always nice to see what new you guys come up with.:smalltongue:

Oh, why thank you.

Do you want to join?

Forever Curious
2010-04-11, 05:40 PM
I'd like to hop in too, if it's alright (the picture inspired me).

What else needs to be done? I have a rough idea of a pantheon.

Maximum Zersk
2010-04-11, 05:50 PM
I'd like to hop in too, if it's alright (the picture inspired me).

What else needs to be done? I have a rough idea of a pantheon.

Of course it's all right. This is an open project. Everyone that's a member of GitP is allowed.

What kind of pantheon? I'm not sure about a single religion for everyone, instead maybe a different religion for each culture, that's ambiguous about if their true or not?

Forever Curious
2010-04-11, 05:54 PM
Of course it's all right. This is an open project. Everyone that's a member of GitP is allowed.

What kind of pantheon? I'm not sure about a single religion for everyone, instead maybe a different religion for each culture, that's ambiguous about if their true or not?

Hmm...well, it was originally for my own homebrew world that is thus far going nowhere. It also seems I have A LOT less done then I thought. :smallredface: Regardless, it can be found here (http://www.obsidianportal.com/campaign/zyallis/wikis/the-lords-and-ladies).

In the case of multiple pantheons, I could work some things out after I read what's been decided on thus far.

Maximum Zersk
2010-04-11, 05:56 PM
Hmm...well, it was originally for my own homebrew world that is thus far going nowhere. It also seems I have A LOT less done then I thought. :smallredface: Regardless, it can be found here (http://www.obsidianportal.com/campaign/zyallis/wikis/the-lords-and-ladies).

In the case of multiple pantheons, I could work some things out after I read what's been decided on thus far.

The religions don't have to be all polytheistic. They could be monotheistic, shamanistic, pantheistic, etc. The possibilities are endless, really.

Forever Curious
2010-04-11, 06:01 PM
The religions don't have to be all polytheistic. They could be monotheistic, shamanistic, pantheistic, etc. The possibilities are endless, really.

Eh...upon looking at my schedule, I'm going to have frighteningly little time to devote to this at the present. I may return in a month or so (when I finally get extensive free time).

Maximum Zersk
2010-04-11, 06:14 PM
Eh...upon looking at my schedule, I'm going to have frighteningly little time to devote to this at the present. I may return in a month or so (when I finally get extensive free time).

Don't worry. We'll (most likely) be here. :smallsmile:

Je dit Viola
2010-04-11, 06:21 PM
The religions don't have to be all polytheistic. They could be monotheistic, shamanistic, pantheistic, etc. The possibilities are endless, really.

As I'm imagining at the moment, many of the tribes/villages of the Humans will be Shamanistic, while the Mayadiles will likely be more polytheistic, with panthenons and stuff, because of the temples they build, in my imagination.

The humans Shamanistic because they're more based on magic and sorcery, and things like that.



((That's an awesome picture, by the way))

Maximum Zersk
2010-04-11, 08:06 PM
As I'm imagining at the moment, many of the tribes/villages of the Humans will be Shamanistic, while the Mayadiles will likely be more polytheistic, with panthenons and stuff, because of the temples they build, in my imagination.

The humans Shamanistic because they're more based on magic and sorcery, and things like that.



((That's an awesome picture, by the way))

Hey, that's a cool idea. And the Gnomes would worship the Omnissiah? :smalltongue:

Je dit Viola
2010-04-11, 08:18 PM
*after quick Googlesearch*

Yes, that would work perfectly! The Gnomes would be monotheistic, worshipping a Machine God.

So, Humans: Shamanistic
Mayadiles/(I have forgotten their official name, probably. Is that it?): Polytheistic
Gnomes: Monotheistic


Does everyone else agree, or do they have better ideas that they want to input?

Maximum Zersk
2010-04-11, 08:21 PM
*after quick Googlesearch*

Yes, that would work perfectly! The Gnomes would be monotheistic, worshipping a Machine God.

So, Humans: Shamanistic
Mayadiles/(I have forgotten their official name, probably. Is that it?): Polytheistic
Gnomes: Monotheistic


Does everyone else agree, or do they have better ideas that they want to input?

Awesome.

Yeah, expect a lot of 40k references from me regarding the gnomes, now. Might want to brush up on your 40k knowledge.

Anyway, I'm going to make a naming language for the mayadiles. Not a permanent one, but one to last until we get to the actual con-langing.

Soterion
2010-04-11, 08:22 PM
I think it would be interesting to have the gnomes be animists, believing that each machine has a "spirit" or animating deity.

EDITED TO ADD:

"Listen carefully, young acolyte. All ores possess the metal spirit. All ores possess the desire for life. All ores possess the desire for freedom. But all ores dream the rock-dream, the unfire-dream. It is our calling, to set free the metal spirit trapped within the ore, and bring it to transcendent glory in the machine form, so that it might move and work and live and glow and change. Liberation of the spirit from the cold, unfeeling matter of the earth! Birthed into new life as a machine, not as some unthinking, unfeeling rock. What is our mission? To give life. What are our tools? Fire and coal and steam and water. Who do we serve? The ore, boy, the ore. The ore, and the spirit it contains. Remember my words, acolyte."

Tulio d Bard
2010-04-11, 10:15 PM
@Soterion: I stopped doing my homework just to say how amazing that picture is. The symbols in the human hand, the croc "hand" (it might have been difficult to find one with that resolution), the Tuke feathers... :smallsmile:
EDIT: Can we add it to our signatures?

Croc Language: probably German-like (I'm not talking about the words and grammar, just try using something that sounds like it).

Religion: Soterion's idea sounds good to me.

Maximum Zersk
2010-04-11, 10:22 PM
@Soterion: I stopped doing my homework just to say how amazing that picture is. The symbols in the human hand, the croc "hand" (it might have been difficult to find one with that resolution), the Tuke feathers... :smallsmile:
EDIT: Can we add it to our signatures?

Croc Language: probably German-like (I'm not talking about the words and grammar, just try using something that sounds like it).

Religion: Soterion's idea sounds good to me.

I was actually thinking of something Central American. Cause, you know, they're based on the Central American Cultures?

Tulio d Bard
2010-04-11, 10:30 PM
I was actually thinking of something Central American. Cause, you know, they're based on the Central American Cultures?

Well, alright then. I thought of German because of the sound it makes (can't really explain). But do you even know how those languages look like?

Maximum Zersk
2010-04-11, 10:31 PM
Well, alright then. I thought of German because of the sound it makes (can't really explain). But do you even know how those languages look like?

I know what German sounds like.

And no, I don't know what the Central American languages sound like. So I'm going to research it.

Soterion
2010-04-11, 10:33 PM
The symbols in the human hand

Sad to say, I did not put those symbols there; somebody in the Punjab decided to put them on their own hand, and then put the hand on the internet.


EDIT: Can we add it to our signatures?

Oh, absolutely. Go to here (http://i948.photobucket.com/albums/ad326/finn_de_siecle/worldbuildingflat2-1.jpg) for the actual picture.