View Full Version : Sleepy elves

2010-01-17, 12:11 PM
Hey :smallsmile:

I'd like to remove the elf's Immunity to magic sleep effects, because I don't think it fits them well fluffwise, and also because I don't even use sleep most often against my players.

What could be a good alternative ability/feature they could be given in exchange for sleep immunity?

2010-01-17, 12:50 PM

Are you also going to remove the fact that elves don't need to sleep?

However, if you want to add something else in instead, there was a suggestion around of giving elves a bag of lifestyle-related skill points at first level, to represent many elves having had a pretty full life before starting their adventuring career.

2010-01-17, 02:32 PM
Yeah, I don't like the whole trance instead of sleep thing. Especially since actual fey do sleep.

Is there a thread that has already discussed this topic?

2010-01-17, 02:38 PM
Eh, it was probably a holdover from older editions of D&D where "demihumans" were basically just bags of perks with no particular synergy. Humans had nothing at all but also had no level caps.

So it's a trade-off between having more immediate power and survivability and a more long-term potential power. Considering that low level characters didn't get saves against sleep, it wasn't a bad trade-off.

This is also why monks are bags of perks with no particular synergy.

In 3e, all these rules are thrown out the window. And now it's just here as a perverse tribute to the old forms without any of the reason. Level caps on non-human races no longer exists and sleep now allows for saving throws.

2010-01-17, 03:25 PM
Actually, I saw in another game that had actual, written out information on the elves sleeping habits, but it was a feat, otherwise, elves/gnomes/fey slept normally.

Rites of the Hours [Racial]
You keep the oldest fey rites and rituals alive to sustain yourself.
Prerequisite: Elven, Gnome or Fey type only.
Benefit: The hourly rites of the fey sustain you. You have learned to get all the rest you need (including removing fatigue, healing, and rememorizing spells) in 4 hours of meditation and trance instead of 8 hours of sleep.

Their was also other feats that let them talk to plants at will, talk with animals at will, a feat that lets one sing to shape earth/plant/stone, a dance-like feat that makes them fighting defensively better, etc.

2010-01-17, 03:32 PM
The immunity against sleep effects wasn't that powerful an ability to begin with. I think bonuses to more skills will do fine, the Elves are actually one of the weaker races unless you allow subraces.

2010-01-17, 03:32 PM
I agree with the above ide a to guve them extra skill points to represent their experience, like a profession skill or maybe some knowledges skll. Or a bonus on herbalism or woodcraft (similar to dwarf´s masonry) beauce i think it fits fluffwise. Or maybe Wild empathy, but with you´d be stepping on druid´s toes and into his niche and IMHO it Would fit they mystical,,fey" kind of elf more. So I think, it boils herbalism woodcraft and knowlewdge.

2010-01-17, 03:41 PM
Or let them use all skills, even untrained ones, with ranks or not. Their was a feat like that in races of the wild for elves - due to their long lives, they have dabbled in everything.

Edit: Or give them dragon-fly like wings. Fly speed of 30 ft., poor. Make their soceity more fey/fairie like, giant tree-villages without bridges, etc.

2010-01-17, 03:51 PM
I was always fond of a +2 racial bonus on the Dex-based skills to better reflect their superhuman agility.

2010-01-17, 04:06 PM
What type of fluff are you going for? A Tolkien fluff would require a major overhaul, both cause D&D elves are almost nothing like Tolkien elves and because Tolkien Elves are quite powerful. If you want to make them more like the 4th edition Eladrin, that is more fey like, then adding more supernatural abilities might be a good idea. Otherwise it really depends on what you are going for.

2010-01-21, 02:30 PM
Thanks for the replies! :smallsmile:

I actually du not intend to make the elves more fey-like. I use lots of fey of various kinds, so the mortal elfes do not need to have a supernatural ability that even true fey do not commonly posses.

I really like the idea of bonuses to skills.

What about this?

Skill bonuses: +2 racial bonus on Balance, and Survival checks in addition to the elf's other racial bonuses.

Trackless Step (Ex): An elf leaves no trail in natural surroundings and cannot be tracked. She may choose to leave a trail if so desired.

2010-01-21, 05:08 PM
Looks good to me and fits very well flavor-wise as the forest-dwelling, best trackers in the woods type elves.