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View Full Version : The inventors of rules 1,2 ,3 and 19 [3.5 Prestige Class, PEACH]



Random_person
2010-01-19, 09:18 PM
"Do not act incautiously when confronting little bald wrinkly smiling men!"
Lu-Tze, a History Monk

Living in a hidden valley of a vast set of mountains, in the area known as Enlightenment country, the History Monks (No Such Monastery, the Men In Saffron ...) are the keepers of History. Their role is to ensure that history follows its correct course, and even to make sure that it exists at all. Times are always getting worse, the monks feel. Again and again some wizard or artificer or mad scientist tinkers with the machinery and shatters the fabric of time and space. The History Monks consider it their duty to put the pieces back together, and to ensure that there are more pieces to follow the present moment.

The monastery was founded by Wen the Eternally Surprised, a monk who understood the true nature of time, and fell in love with the anthropomorphic personification of Time. The History Monks follow the directions in the History Books, huge books in which the entire course of history, including what ought to happen in the future, is written. The History Monks also pull time from places where it's not needed (ex. a classroom of bored pupils) and put it into places where it's needed (ex. a busy factory). The instrument for storing time and paying it out is called a procrastinator. The History Monks also use a mandala (a spread of colored sand) to monitor anomalies in the fabric of time.

Sometimes, the History Monks go rogue. In these cases, if they are not quickly contained, they simply blend back into time, and occasionally teach others not of the order their techniques. This is frowned upon, but tolerated, due to the ancient principle of We Just Don't Have Time/People, which applies even to those who have literally all the time in the world.

Becoming A History Monk
Generally, a character becomes a History Monk either by being taken into the order, by seeking out enlightenment and finding the order instead, or by being trained by a rogue. Very, very rarely, someone will stumble upon the techniques themselves: this usually leads to their being recruited into the order.

ENTRY REQUIREMENTS
BAB: +7
Saves: Base Fortitude, Will and Reflex +7
Special: Must have an Initiative modifier of +4 or more.
Special: Must be tutored by a History Monk or be a descendant of an anthropomorphic personification.

Hit Dice:d8

Class Skills: A history monk's class skills (and their relevant ability modifiers) are Autohypnosis (Wis), Balance (Dex), Concentration (Con), Knowledge (all, taken separately) (Int), Listen (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis) and Tumble (Dex).

Skill Points Per Level: 4+Int modifier.

History Monk
{table=head]Level|Base Attack<br>Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|

1st|
+0|
+2|
+2|
+2|Slice Time (move action), Flurry of Blows, AC bonus

2nd|
+1|
+3|
+3|
+3|Uncanny Dodge

3rd|
+2|
+3|
+3|
+3|Slice-Fight (Deny Dexterity modifier)

4th|
+3|
+4|
+4|
+4|Slice Time (standard action)

5th|
+3|
+4|
+4|
+4|Circular Aging, Improved Uncanny Dodge

6th|
+4|
+5|
+5|
+5|Slice-Fight (Cause Flat-footedness)

7th|
+5|
+5|
+5|
+5|Slice Time (full-round action)

8th|
+6|
+6|
+6|
+6|Stance of the Coyote

9th|
+6|
+6|
+6|
+6|Slice-Fight (Make touch attacks)

10th|
+7|
+7|
+7|
+7|Zimmerman's Valley, Deja Fu[/table]

Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: A History Monk gains no new weapon or armor proficiencies.

Slice Time (Ex): A history monk learns to squeeze more use out of a piece of time than other people. A history monk gains an additional action each round. At first level, this is a move action. At fourth, it increases to a standard action. At seventh, it increases again to a full-round action.

Flurry of Blows (Ex): A history monk may use Flurry of Blows as a monk of their class level. History monk levels stack with monk levels for the purposes of determining unarmed strike damage. If the sum of a character's monk and history monk levels exceeds ten, they gain the greater flurry of blows ability if they do not have it already.

AC bonus (Ex): When a history monk is unarmored and unencumbered, they add their Wisdom modifier (minimum 0) to their armor class. History monk levels stack with monk levels for the purposes of determining additional AC boosts.

Uncanny Dodge (Ex): At 2nd level, a history monk retains his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) even if he is caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. However, he still loses his Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized. If a history monk already has uncanny dodge from a different class, he automatically gains improved uncanny dodge instead.

Slice-Fight (Ex): By slicing time in short bursts, a history monk is able to gain certain advantages over their opponents. At third level, a history monk automatically denies any opponent their Dexterity modifier against his attacks. At sixth level, any opponent hit by the history monk is considered flat-footed for the next round. At ninth level, all melee attacks made by the history monks are touch attacks.

Circular Aging (Ex): A history monk of fifth level or above is able to extend the principles of time-slicing, never aging. Any penalties to the history monk's physical ability scores from aging are removed, and the history monk suffers no ill effects from aging. They will also never die of old age. They still gain bonuses to their mental ability scores.

Improved Uncanny Dodge (Ex): At 5th level and higher, a history monk can no longer be flanked. This defense denies a rogue the ability to sneak attack the history monk by flanking him, unless the attacker has at least four more rogue levels than the target has history monk levels. If a character already has uncanny dodge from a second class, the character automatically gains improved uncanny dodge instead, and the levels from the classes that grant uncanny dodge stack to determine the minimum level a rogue must be to flank the character.

Stance of the Coyote (Ex): A history monk of seventh level or above may "freeze" time for themselves and up to their Wisdom modifier of other creatures for 1d4+1 rounds. This may be done up to their Wisdom modifier times per day. While in this state, spellcasting is impossible, as is interaction with those outside this state. All other actions are, however, possible. The history monk must be conscious to maintain this state, and it requires a swift action to enter this state.

Zimmerman's Valley (Ex): A tenth level history monk is capable of truly incredible time-slicing. They may maintain a Stance of the Coyote on themselves indefinitely. However, for every subjective 3 rounds, the history monk must make a DC 30 Will save. If this save is failed, the history monk begins to lose control, and must save every subjective round thereafter. If a second save is failed, the history monk dies instantly.

Deja Fu (Ex): A tenth level history monk may bend time itself to their needs, forming it into a weapon of incredible power. Up to half their Wisdom modifier times per day, the history monk may perform 1d4 ranged touch attacks on any creature which he has line of sight to as a swift action. Each of these attacks deals (Wisdom modifier)d6 damage, and the history monk may move adjacent to the opponent as a move action afterwards.

Zexion
2010-01-19, 09:28 PM
I like Deja Fu. The class seems consistent. Improved Initiative as an entry feat seems unnecessary: I thing you should make an initiative modifier requirement instead.

DracoDei
2010-01-19, 10:01 PM
Have you looked at the previous attempt(s) to do this on these boards? As usual, I don't think that just because a thing has been done before (even done very well indeed) is any reason not to attempt a new and different take on it, but it is always good to consider the contributions of others at some point in the process (not to early to have your own ideas, but not too late to take what the figured out and put it to good use).

P.S.: Just slicing alone makes this VERY VERY powerful.

Thrice Dead Cat
2010-01-19, 10:11 PM
Slice of Time is insane. Even getting a swift action for free makes this amazing as a dip.

Fastest entry I can think of (which doesn't utilize casting), go Monk 2/Favored Soul 2/Good BAB 5 (or 4, with fractional BAB), finishing it with whatever you want.

Good BAB 5 would probably just end up being Crusader, Warblade, and/or ToB PrCs. Probably still weaker than just straight ToB, but, hey two full-round actions every round.

EDIT: You should probably give them class skills, too.

EDIT2: Optimal entry with casting: Cleric 6/(Sacred Fist 6 or Seeker of the Misty Isle 6)/History Monk 1/Full Cleric Casting the rest.

LordZarth
2010-01-19, 10:18 PM
One suggestion, for Slice Time: As I recall (could be wrong), a swift action is unique, and one cannot use a move or standard action as a swift, unlike one being able to use a standard as a move. Perhaps you could stipulate that, for this ability, one can use their extra Move/Standard/Full Action as a Swift if they desire. (Also, what about Immediate? Did you forget or just decide not to put them in?)

^ The above because there should never be a reason in a class/prestige class to NOT advance in that class because it worsens you. One could decide that the extra Swift serves them better than a move.

The Tygre
2010-01-19, 11:05 PM
What are these 'rules' you're referencing in the title? I have a fetish for parody commandments.

Zexion
2010-01-20, 12:05 AM
I agree with the Tygre. I liked the title, but there is little synergy.

Rainbownaga
2010-01-20, 12:12 AM
Discworld reference, right?

Random_person
2010-01-20, 12:28 AM
How does the slicing make this vastly powerful? You can double your damage output by investing ten levels into it, and unless I've missed something this is a level 11 entry class. And swift actions: what is the big deal? It says, right there in quicken spell, that you can't cast more than one quickened spell per round. What else can you do with swift actions?

Immediate actions: aren't those just taking a swift action before your turn?

Yeah, I will do class skills: suggestions for those would be appreciated. I can't think of what would be good for that.

The rules are listed right here (http://wiki.lspace.org/wiki/Rule_One). This class should make anyone follow those rules when confronted with it (except for wizards. And druids. And sorcerers, clerics... most anyone. But still).

Rainbownaga
2010-01-20, 12:40 AM
Warblade 5/swordsage 2/ monk 2 works for level 9 10 entrance. Swift actions allow for 2 boosts/round.

Also, the level 9 time slice ability is superior to using a level 9 maneuver every round.

Random_person
2010-01-20, 04:42 AM
Oh flip. That's bad. Except... a Warblade can use said ninth level maneuver every second round four levels earlier, and can choose other maneuvers instead (more flexibility), and is working off a better base. Two boosts per round: I am not as familiar with ToB as I would like: is that very bad?

Mulletmanalive
2010-01-20, 05:25 AM
Rule 1: Never act incautiously around bald, smiling, wrinkled old men.
Rule 2: Always remember Rule 1.

I forget the other two.

From a practical POV, does it really matter that THEORETICALLY you could uber-clock this using Warblade? I ask for two reasons and bold the theoretically for another.

One, you're the GM and you're creating this for your own use. Rule 0 applies.

Two, you have to maintain good standing with the History Monks to get into the class. Sounds minor but their Discworld incarnation was a pretty strict if zany organisation and they wouldn't have trained someone who wandered the countryside killing people for a living...even, or especially, Lu Tze, the only man who could actually teach you Deja Fu!

On the Theoretically, the combination of classes mentioned above is the sort of combo that sounds awesome as a theoretical but actually using it to work towards this would be far less powerful than a straight build or a short-term power build. Unless the character was made at high level, there's probably little danger of such a build actually happening. Just because it could happen doesn't mean it will.

The real be-all of this is that it's a genuine Prestige class. There is prestige and a campaign role included in it; on the other hand, it does suffer a little from mono-class entry issues, but hey ho. I'd probably drop the Saves and BAB slightly and add 13 ranks of Concentration to the requirements. Suddenly the ToB early entry issues aren't there.

Agi Hammerthief
2010-01-20, 06:51 AM
Rule 1: Never act incautiously around bald, smiling, wrinkled old men.
Rule 2: Always remember Rule 1.

I forget the other two.
Rule #19 is "Never forget Rule One, and ask yourself why it was invented in the first place."
I don't think Rule 3 was actually mentioned



shouldn't there be some alignment restriction?

they are after all supposed to be neutral and see to it that things happen according to how It Is Written,
can't see an obviously Evil (evil-doer), Good (evil-preventer) or Chaotic (can't take orders) character accepted to be trained.

lesser_minion
2010-01-20, 09:10 AM
Bonus swift actions shouldn't ever be granted. Even if you get two full rounds per round, you shouldn't generally get an extra swift action. WRT is borked enough as it is.

Swift actions are for things that you absolutely, categorically, completely, totally, should never be able to do more than once a round because it would totally rape the game if you could.

The limit on quickened spells is a throwback to 3.0, where it was a free action to cast one.

Thrice Dead Cat
2010-01-20, 11:38 AM
How does the slicing make this vastly powerful? You can double your damage output by investing ten levels into it, and unless I've missed something this is a level 11 entry class. And swift actions: what is the big deal? It says, right there in quicken spell, that you can't cast more than one quickened spell per round. What else can you do with swift actions?

Immediate actions: aren't those just taking a swift action before your turn?

Yeah, I will do class skills: suggestions for those would be appreciated. I can't think of what would be good for that.

To clarify on Quicken Spell (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#quickenSpell), taking into account errata and swift actions, Quicken went from making spells free actions to swift actions. Normally, you have one swift action a round. Now you have more. ???? Profit!

As for Immediate actions, they use up the next rounds swift action, but, are technically separate from swift actions. So, a whatever X/History Monk 1 could use two swifts on his turn, but would still be limited to only one Immediate action.

Mulletmanalive
2010-01-20, 01:27 PM
To clarify on Quicken Spell (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#quickenSpell), taking into account errata and swift actions, Quicken went from making spells free actions to swift actions. Normally, you have one swift action a round. Now you have more. ???? Profit!

As for Immediate actions, they use up the next rounds swift action, but, are technically separate from swift actions. So, a whatever X/History Monk 1 could use two swifts on his turn, but would still be limited to only one Immediate action.

I'd like to question why this is important.

To get into this, you need significant multiclassing if you're not going in pure monk. By my counting, you'd need to be level 20 to have a shot at getting two Quickened fourth level spells and lose out on the chance at using Timestop.

Sure, you could theoretically break it using magic items but i've never known a class with a supernatural or spell casting ability where that wasn't the case.

Lapak
2010-01-20, 01:42 PM
I'd like to question why this is important.

To get into this, you need significant multiclassing if you're not going in pure monk. By my counting, you'd need to be level 20 to have a shot at getting two Quickened fourth level spells and lose out on the chance at using Timestop.The biggest benefit of this isn't for spellcasting, the way I see it: it's for ToB melee folks (and, to a lesser degree, Incarnum users.) Dual Boost is a capstone ability for a reason - being able to combine the benefits of multiple boosts in one round has the potential for some pretty crazy nova-ing. That wouldn't be a problem if the (Swift) time-slice came near the end of the progression instead of the beginning, but a one-level dip gets a maneuver-user an ability you'd have to level all the way to 20 in pure Swordsage to get otherwise.

Thrice Dead Cat
2010-01-20, 01:44 PM
I'd like to question why this is important.

To get into this, you need significant multiclassing if you're not going in pure monk. By my counting, you'd need to be level 20 to have a shot at getting two Quickened fourth level spells and lose out on the chance at using Timestop.

Sure, you could theoretically break it using magic items but i've never known a class with a supernatural or spell casting ability where that wasn't the case.

See my previous post with the cleric stub. Use standard Divine Metamagic trickery and blow your wad by 14th level. Now, this is certainly suboptimal to the Windicator, but it is doable. Also, assuming the appropriate domains, you'll still get Time Stop.

Doing this with arcane is trickier, but I'd say not impossible. The main, point, however, is that the first level is incredibly dippable. More so than the standard "Monk 1/Druid 19" jokes, albeit a little harder to work into a build.

Further note that the first level ability of Slice Time is near worthless to your typical Monk, outside of swift action magic items and/or maneuvers gained via Martial Study. It also gets weaker before it gets stronger. While move actions are nice, they can't do as much as swift actions. Hell, there are at least two ways to get a move action from a swift action, one of which is practically core.

DracoDei
2010-01-20, 02:01 PM
I am a bit confused, but I will mention that Concentration IS a class skill for at least some ToB classes.

Also, I tend to just insert back in that 3.0 rule about "One quickened spell per round unless you have the Epic feat that says otherwise" on top of MOST (but not all) of the 3.5 rules.

Mulletmanalive
2010-01-20, 02:10 PM
So...what, Move, Standard, Swift, Full as an alternate? Guess it would make more sense if anything the monk or history monk could do was a Swift action.

As it is, it's pointless.

This i hadn't noticed.

I don't do TOB or much spellcasting in my games but i have a lot of houseruled and very useful things you could do with an extra swift action so i didn't think.

In fairness, i also ignore things like DMM because i've been told it involves nightsticks...i've a tendency to simply point out that they're designed for turning or controlling undead, not powering Divine feats and just moving on.

Random_person
2010-01-20, 02:35 PM
OK, the extra swift action is gone! And there was much rejoicing.

I have moved the time-slice progression down, and added another element to the capstone to make up for it: thoughts on Zimmerman's Valley?

Is the time-slice still too front-loaded? I can shuffle it around if it is.

karpik777
2010-01-20, 02:48 PM
I don't think Rule 3 was actually mentioned

While I can't really comment the class, I just had to point out that rule 3 exists:
"Be afraid when you are in possession of a deadly weapon and face an unarmed man in a pose of submission" :smallbiggrin: