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Astrella
2010-06-11, 12:17 PM
The problem with Berserker Threads is that their unique bonus is accessible very easily: There are loads of items that build attack speed.

The other boots add far more elusive stats: magic pen, snare/stun duration reduction, dodge, and movement speed of course.

Joran
2010-06-11, 12:30 PM
I honestly do not see the use of assault treads, except maybe on... a very few select heroes, when you can get swiftness. I mean, whenever I play DotA, I almost always prefer phase to treads, because you get movement speed. Who the hell cares about +10 to a stat (there are some, specific cases... like perhaps a hero who also gets lothar's, or heroes who don't need to be fast, but then they should just get basic boots anyways). Movement speed means mobility which means positioning which means ganks and gold and chasing.


Edit: Ninjaed, basically what Sirroelivan said.

I'd disagree. There's a lot of champions with slows out there or stuns and it's more important for you to stay alive and the two defensive boots add quite a bit to your survivability. Speed is definitely good, but it's not as cut and dry as you think.

Mercury's Treads has a 40% reduction to CC duration; that's absolutely substantial. It also has 25? MR on it, which is a pretty good amount.

Ninja's Tabi's has 25 armor and 12% dodge, which is a massive decrease in physical damage coming in. Stacking that and dodge runes makes you pretty robust against physical DPS.

Sorcerer's Shoes has 20 Magic Pen on it, which is pretty darn good for casters.

Brother Oni
2010-06-11, 12:30 PM
Also, play him enough to buy him with IP first.
(Nothing is worse then buying a skin that you afterwards can't/won't play)


I don't think you can buy a skin without owning the champion first.


@Cogwheel
If you're interested in playing with the rest of us, there's a planned meet tomorrow about 5pm EST. You might be a bit low ELO to compete well on random queue with us, but if we get enough people, we can setup an internal 3v3 or something and take the time to help teach you properly.

Astrella
2010-06-11, 12:36 PM
About that, I got a "player not found message" when trying to add you Cogwheel. Are you on the US client or the European one? (is that one still running / running again?)

Most of us are on the US client after all.

Cogwheel
2010-06-11, 12:37 PM
I don't think you can buy a skin without owning the champion first.


@Cogwheel
If you're interested in playing with the rest of us, there's a planned meet tomorrow about 5pm EST. You might be a bit low ELO to compete well on random queue with us, but if we get enough people, we can setup an internal 3v3 or something and take the time to help teach you properly.

Sounds good. I'm on GMT+9 (in Japan), so... whenabouts would that be over here?


Edit: I'm on Europe. Assumed it would result in less lag.

Astrella
2010-06-11, 12:38 PM
Think that's unfortunately going to be in the middle of the night for you. (Since it's 10 pm for me and I'm in GMT + 2)

Cogwheel
2010-06-11, 12:44 PM
Think that's unfortunately going to be in the middle of the night for you. (Since it's 10 pm for me and I'm in GMT + 2)

5 AM. That could be... tricky, yes.

I'll have to pass, in that case. Sorry. And I'm not exactly a morning person either, so 8-ish wouldn't be an option either.

Plus, there's ample opportunities to randomly get called away and have to run errands for an hour or two as long as my parents are still awake, so I'm not the most reliable person around unless it's midnight-ish here.

Dragonus45
2010-06-11, 03:34 PM
You guys should friend me on here, my screen name is the same as as on here dragonus45.

Shades of Gray
2010-06-11, 05:50 PM
Just bought and played some matches as Poppy. I'm building her as a tank for now, as I don't trust my survivability.

Masteries: 0/21/9
Spells: Cleanse, Heal
Priorities: Diplomatic Immunity>Devastating Blow>Paragon of Demacia>Heroic Charge

Starting Items: Regrowth Pendant
2) Appropriate boots
3) Warmog's Armor
4) Frozen Mallet
5) Atma's Impaler

Astrella
2010-06-11, 06:11 PM
Hrmm, I wouldn't be getting Warmogs on Poppy. I consider it to be an iffy item in general, and poppy has weak farming so it's even harder to make it worthwhile on her.

Dallas-Dakota
2010-06-11, 06:26 PM
Shades, I played with you, didn't I?
(different names, teh confusing)

Quite frankly, I'm sorry, but you really didn't attract enough attention as a tank.
And Poppy is too squishy(or you just didn't) to tank turrets good.

Perhaps try out a strategy of Flash>Charge - into friendlies.
?
That'd be sure to gather you some attention as a tank.

I've been playing Panth to gather some IP to buy Teemo.
FUN. :D

Especially that one time where I was near dead. Got away. Zilean ulti'd me.
I charged in to do some dmg anyway. Died, came back. And then got away again, fleeing to the sounds of my enemies cursing my name.:smallbiggrin:

Also 3-hitting Ashe to death is fun.:smallbiggrin:

One more game and then buying Teemo.:smallsmile:

Poison_Fish
2010-06-11, 06:28 PM
Just bought and played some matches as Poppy. I'm building her as a tank for now, as I don't trust my survivability.

Masteries: 0/21/9
Spells: Cleanse, Heal
Priorities: Diplomatic Immunity>Devastating Blow>Paragon of Demacia>Heroic Charge

Starting Items: Regrowth Pendant
2) Appropriate boots
3) Warmog's Armor
4) Frozen Mallet
5) Atma's Impaler

Lesson one. Poppy is not a tank.

Lesson two. Poppy is burst melee DPS.

Trinity force, trinity force, trinity force.. No really, just one trinity. Bloodthirsters are good too, but she's really not a good tank.

Edit: Cleanse + Ghost or exhaust is what I like on her.

Shades of Gray
2010-06-11, 06:33 PM
I still think she can be a viable tank. She has an innate damage reduction that becomes stronger as she gets lower and lower in terms of hp. She has an armor buff with paragon, a good initiation skill (charge) and a way to get away if things go sour (ult.)

But I may try her as burst damage in the future, and in that case I will definitely stock up on Trinity Force and the like.

I also hear good things about AP Poppy, though I have yet to see it in action.

Brother Oni
2010-06-11, 06:37 PM
I also hear good things about AP Poppy, though I have yet to see it in action.

I've seen it in action. I've seen her two shot a squishy with a charge into a wall + auto attack.

AP poppy is scary, kinda like a Ryze - lots of manoeuvering to stay out of her reach.

Thrawn183
2010-06-11, 06:38 PM
I still think she can be a viable tank. She has an innate damage reduction that becomes stronger as she gets lower and lower in terms of hp. She has an armor buff with paragon, a good initiation skill (charge) and a way to get away if things go sour (ult.)

But I may try her as burst damage in the future, and in that case I will definitely stock up on Trinity Force and the like.

I also hear good things about AP Poppy, though I have yet to see it in action.

Well, at the very least always get a sheen.

Shades of Gray
2010-06-11, 07:20 PM
Of course. The difference with AP Poppy is that you go Lich Bane rather than Trinity Force.

Proposed build for regular Poppy:

1) Start: Sapphire Crystal, Health pot, mana pot.
2) Boots.
3) Build your Sheen.
4) Upgrade to Boots of choice.
5) Phage, Zeal, and round off your Trinity Force.
6) Youmu's? Bloodthirster? Black Cleaver?

Proposed build for AP Poppy:

1) Start: Sapphire Crystal, health pot, mana pot.
2) Boots.
3) Build sheen.
4) Upgrade to Boots of choice.
5) Build Lich Bane.
6) Abyssal Scepter? Guinsoo's? Gunblade?

Poison_Fish
2010-06-11, 09:01 PM
I still think she can be a viable tank. She has an innate damage reduction that becomes stronger as she gets lower and lower in terms of hp. She has an armor buff with paragon, a good initiation skill (charge) and a way to get away if things go sour (ult.)

But I may try her as burst damage in the future, and in that case I will definitely stock up on Trinity Force and the like.

I also hear good things about AP Poppy, though I have yet to see it in action.

She falls into the hybrid category, much like Nassus and Garen. However, unlike those two, who are viable as tanks or DPS, her tanking is very sub-par compared to her doing DPS. Her passives + armor just aids in survivability, so my mastery build is very similar to my 9/21/0 build for Jax or Mundo (Who are also function better as DPS then tank)

Faulty
2010-06-11, 10:42 PM
So I've decided that Nidalee, Pantheon and Malzahar are my favorite champions, with Twitch and Warwick up there, too. Cho'Gath is fun if I need to be a tank.

toasty
2010-06-12, 01:36 AM
Now, here is a question, runes. I have a decent number of runes now, a lot of Armor Pen runes, some Dodge runes, and once I get the money I'll swap my tier 2 Health Quint (which I bought by mistake. :smallannoyed:) with a pair of Tier 3 Health Quints, but how do I work with runes? At this point I'd say the heroes that I like playing are Morde, Ammunu, Warwick, Sivir, and maybe Nunu. Oh, and I own Alistair, and can probably play him decently. however, I'm trying to think what kind of runes to buy.

Basically, I've been building a Warwick Rune chart because that seems to be the best bet right now, as I really enjoy playing him. Basically the way I figure it my Glyphs (? the yellow ones) should be dodge and my Quints should always be Flat Health unless I'm doing a specialty build (my brother has a Karthus rune-chart with AP quints, which works, if you ask me). My marks and seals however... I'm not so sure about. Critical hits? Attack Speed? Health? AP?

Astrella
2010-06-12, 03:59 AM
Armor Penetration tends to make a good general Mark for DPS and Cooldown Reduction glyphs are in general useful too.

Depends of course on how you play the hero though.

Poison_Fish
2010-06-12, 06:30 AM
My overall solid tank/DPS build is Health quints, yellow dodge, blue cool down, red should be armor pen (I'm running crit/some crit damage right now, but that's for going around being goofy as Mundo for huge level two masochism hits).

Terazul
2010-06-12, 09:49 AM
Seals are the yellow ones and should probably be dodge (Like really, it's the universally useful seal slot) unless you have something fancy you want to do. Glyphs are the blue ones and will almost always universally be suggested as cooldown reduction, and then usually Armor Pen for phys champions (Warwick, Sivir), and Magic Pen for casters (Morde, Amumu, Nunu). It's the "you probably can't go wrong with this" straightforward setup.

Shades of Gray
2010-06-12, 09:57 AM
Some people use mana regen runes for their glyphs as well.

Also, some champs need their own rune pages. Tryndamere needs a critical-based rune page for instance.

Astrella
2010-06-12, 10:19 AM
Well, in general it depends on the hero of course, but nonetheless, penetration marks, dodge seals, cooldown reduction glyphs / hard mana glyphs and hard health quints just work for most heroes.

So in general, it's a good first full set to work towards. (Unless you mostly play a hero who would benefit from a rather different set. But I don't think anyone really plays one hero exclusively.)

toasty
2010-06-12, 11:34 AM
There are a few... but really, its no fun if you play one hero all the time. I've been focusing on WW enough that I guess he's my main, but once I get Morde I'll probably play him a lot. I also like Sivir a good deal. Solo mid, destroy the tower quick, and then go crazy carrying/supporting the team.

Faulty
2010-06-12, 12:36 PM
I'm inexperienced with runes (I plan on getting all or most of the champions before buying much in the way of them) but a mix of hard and scaling runes might be useful, giving you a boost early game for this early ganks to hopefully lead into a snowball, faster leveling and better gold for your starter items, while still giving you that higher level advantage.

Brother Oni
2010-06-12, 02:09 PM
I'm inexperienced with runes (I plan on getting all or most of the champions before buying much in the way of them) but a mix of hard and scaling runes might be useful, giving you a boost early game for this early ganks to hopefully lead into a snowball, faster leveling and better gold for your starter items, while still giving you that higher level advantage.

One good rule of thumb for working whether scaling is better than flat - work out what level you need to be for the scaling to be better than the flat, then work out how long it takes you in an average game for you to hit that point.

Most of the time though, flat boosts are better as the scaling don't add enough at higher levels to be worth the disadvantage they have at lower levels.


Anybody turning up tonight? I might be a bit late as the England game's on.

Shades of Gray
2010-06-12, 02:14 PM
I will probably be showing up later. Not entirely sure.

Faulty
2010-06-12, 09:34 PM
One good rule of thumb for working whether scaling is better than flat - work out what level you need to be for the scaling to be better than the flat, then work out how long it takes you in an average game for you to hit that point.

Most of the time though, flat boosts are better as the scaling don't add enough at higher levels to be worth the disadvantage they have at lower levels.


Anybody turning up tonight? I might be a bit late as the England game's on.

Thanks for the info. By the by, I'm FaultyClockwork in LoL. Am I friends with any of you? :O

Astrella
2010-06-13, 06:10 AM
I'm inexperienced with runes (I plan on getting all or most of the champions before buying much in the way of them) but a mix of hard and scaling runes might be useful, giving you a boost early game for this early ganks to hopefully lead into a snowball, faster leveling and better gold for your starter items, while still giving you that higher level advantage.

I'd advise on working towards one of the generalist rune sets mentioned earlier though. Since as soon as you start hitting a semi-high summoner level, you will be disadvantaged by your lack of runes. (And winning more leads to more ip leads to being able to buy more champs.)

Brother Oni
2010-06-13, 06:21 AM
Thanks for the info. By the by, I'm FaultyClockwork in LoL. Am I friends with any of you? :O

Most of the regulars have their names listed on the first post of this thread.

What server are you on?

Faulty
2010-06-13, 09:37 AM
Totally missed that, pardon me. :smalltongue: I'm US; will be Canadian come the school year but I assume that that is the same server.

Terazul
2010-06-13, 11:36 AM
Oh right. I still haven't mentioned that.

<-- Allegretto, on the US Servers.

Faulty
2010-06-13, 12:15 PM
By the by, do ya'll have a mumble or ventrilo server, or use skype or something? I've been using the ChHa mumble server because I really like using voice chat but I'm kind of tired of playing with people who say "gay", "retard" and "rape" all the time.

Zeful
2010-06-13, 12:44 PM
I just started yesterday and spent some time playing. Is there any advice the playground can give?

Elagune
2010-06-13, 12:47 PM
So, people liking the new patch?

I play AD Ez and just got a huge buff. Since the patch I have literally not lost a game and only went negative in one of them. Feeling awesome so far.

And Zeful, what kind of advice are you looking for?

Milskidasith
2010-06-13, 12:48 PM
Don't die.

There's really no way to give general advice to a newbie, besides that. Figure out when you're in a position you can be killed, and then get out of there. Recognize the zone of control you and your enemies have. Don't ever trade kills, or do things where you know you'll die for a chance to get a kill (even if you think the kill is guaranteed). Don't stand by towers if there are more than two enemies hitting the tower or the tower is at low HP, because you aren't safe.

EDIT: Ez is broken ATM (As in, "Before TF remake TF" broken). He has massive heals, massive damage, great mobility, most of his attacks are AoE, and the attack speed buff/debuff he has is huge.

Shades of Gray
2010-06-13, 12:53 PM
The other issue is that he is incredibly glass. He can't take any punishment at all. Granted, this makes him incredibly imbalanced, in the same way that Twitch or Teemo is imbalanced, as they can dish out tons of damage but cannot take any.

Milskidasith
2010-06-13, 12:59 PM
The other issue is that he is incredibly glass. He can't take any punishment at all. Granted, this makes him incredibly imbalanced, in the same way that Twitch or Teemo is imbalanced, as they can dish out tons of damage but cannot take any.

Wrong. He's got a free, short cooldown blink and he can nerf the enemy damage by a ton which helps his survivability. He's not even that squishy to begin with, and he has amazing escape and defensive options.

Shades of Gray
2010-06-13, 01:07 PM
Meh. I guess I just haven't found an Ezreal player that I really had to worry about. Some annoying supporters, but none that really made a match terrible for me. Generally they are free gold for me as Katarina and Gragas.

Thrawn183
2010-06-13, 01:22 PM
Don't die.



I can't emphasize this enough. Dying doesn't just hurt you in terms of lost opportunity for gold and experience, it also makes the enemies more difficult for your team.

Play at least one game with each of the free heroes. You'll quickly come to understand what abilities each has, and what their strengths and weaknesses. If one hero regularly gives you trouble, you probably don't appreciate their drawbacks. Be careful of towers as they will kill you very quickly early game. Call mia when a hero goes missing from their lane.

Dragonus45
2010-06-13, 01:46 PM
Forgot to mention im on the U.S. server.

Kara Kuro
2010-06-13, 01:46 PM
I just started yesterday and spent some time playing. Is there any advice the playground can give?

General Noob Advice from Someone who just taught a few of their friends to play:

Turrets: These to an extent win you the game. The more turrets you take down, the more likely you are to win a match. Conversely, the less towers your team has remaining in your lanes, the harder the match becomes. Turrets do a lot of damage! Remember only to attack a turret if you've got at least a few creeps to take the damage for you, and remember that if you attack an enemy champion in range of the their active turret you will pull turret agro.

Creeps: On average, creeps can kill you and do a decent amount of damage to you until about level 5. Keep yourself behind a line of creeps (if your hero is ranged) or make sure to let your own creeps take the attacks of the enemy's while you finish them off. You get more gold for last hitting (IE scoring the killing blow on a creep). Try to get good at this. Gold = items, items = geared hero, geared hero = better hero.

Enemy Heroes: As much as taking towers is a part of the game, killing and avoiding being killed by enemy heroes is a huge part of the game as well. In general, when you are just starting to get a feel for the game... When in doubt, retreat. Its not worth you feeding them levels and gold early in the game just to get that 'first blood'. As a newbie, I recommend playing a ranged hero and going top lane or bottom lane with a partner. Let them initiate a hero attack and then assist with what you can until you feel a bit more confident.

And remember, practice makes better. Hope that helped.

On another note, SO glad I realized that the playground had a LOL forum. Kinda fail on my part for not having noticed earlier. I'm RaptorKitty on the US servers.

Shades of Gray
2010-06-13, 01:50 PM
Glad to have all of you guys around. The usual meet-up time is 4pm EST on Saturdays, though we sometimes do improvised meet-ups often.

I'm PierreAbelard on the US servers. I main Katarina and Gragas, and I am learning Poppy and Kassadin. I'm usually online at around 5pm EST during the week and sporadically on on the weekends. Feel free to add me.

Faulty
2010-06-13, 01:51 PM
So I take it that there isn't really a voice chat server of some kind.

Kara Kuro
2010-06-13, 01:54 PM
I usually just just have a skype window open and try to get as many people into a call as possible. Most of the people I regularly play with do the same.

Shades of Gray
2010-06-13, 01:54 PM
I might start using Skype, though my family doesn't like how it screws with the phonelines.

Terazul
2010-06-13, 02:00 PM
I just started yesterday and spent some time playing. Is there any advice the playground can give?

Things people above said, plus the obligatory thread everyone should read. (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=71443)

Elagune
2010-06-13, 02:00 PM
General Noob Advice from Someone who just taught a few of their friends to play:

Turrets: These to an extent win you the game. The more turrets you take down, the more likely you are to win a match. Conversely, the less towers your team has remaining in your lanes, the harder the match becomes. Turrets do a lot of damage! Remember only to attack a turret if you've got at least a few creeps to take the damage for you, and remember that if you attack an enemy champion in range of the their active turret you will pull turret agro.

Creeps: On average, creeps can kill you and do a decent amount of damage to you until about level 5. Keep yourself behind a line of creeps (if your hero is ranged) or make sure to let your own creeps take the attacks of the enemy's while you finish them off. You get more gold for last hitting (IE scoring the killing blow on a creep). Try to get good at this. Gold = items, items = geared hero, geared hero = better hero.

Enemy Heroes: As much as taking towers is a part of the game, killing and avoiding being killed by enemy heroes is a huge part of the game as well. In general, when you are just starting to get a feel for the game... When in doubt, retreat. Its not worth you feeding them levels and gold early in the game just to get that 'first blood'. As a newbie, I recommend playing a ranged hero and going top lane or bottom lane with a partner. Let them initiate a hero attack and then assist with what you can until you feel a bit more confident.

And remember, practice makes better. Hope that helped.

On another note, SO glad I realized that the playground had a LOL forum. Kinda fail on my part for not having noticed earlier. I'm RaptorKitty on the US servers.

Wait, RaptorKitty?

Holy crap, it's me Chopstyx. Never got a chance to say this, but I loved your League of Legends fanart.

Kara Kuro
2010-06-13, 02:08 PM
@ Elagune: Ho. Thanks man! I appreciate it <3

Astrella
2010-06-13, 02:56 PM
So, I've been wanting to give Kennen a try and was wondering if the Playground has got any tips to offer.

(Also, we should get six people together some time, then we can have vs matches. :smallsmile: )

Dragonus45
2010-06-13, 03:06 PM
So i grabbed twisted fate, since i think he looks cool. Yes i know worst reason ever to spend my ip, but his fluff and all apeals to me. Anyone have any good hints or equipment orders?

lord_khaine
2010-06-13, 03:08 PM
Im playing on the EU server under the name of torbrisson, currently lv 19.

Astrella
2010-06-13, 03:09 PM
Hmm, it's been a patch or two since I played him, but attack speed + maxing out his E skill allows you to do large amounts of damage.

(This probably got nerfed a bit though, haven't been following the changes a lot lately, since I hardly get any games going with exams and all...)

Shades of Gray
2010-06-13, 03:42 PM
I would like to actually try a hybrid build on him. He likes AP and Attack Speed, so I would actually consider building Guinsoo's and Nashor's Tooth on him. But that's just me and my love of hybrids.

Poison_Fish
2010-06-13, 03:59 PM
My friends and I largely use our team ventrillo server (We did mucho competitive dota back in the day). But that server is used for everything from LoL to SC2 to TF2.

Side note, Kayle + Jana early in a lane is a bit ... silly.

Shades of Gray
2010-06-13, 04:08 PM
Mundo, Kennen, and Ezreal are also annoying harrassers. The latter not as much, but the first two have an almost endless supply of harrassment.

Poison_Fish
2010-06-13, 04:20 PM
They aren't that bad as harassers considering you can avoid damage from them just by simple intelligent positioning. Now Kayle, Janna, and so on are much worse.

Granted, in Mundo's case, I just go where I please and walk into enemies to get cleavers, since Mundo can take it early on and not care.

Dallas-Dakota
2010-06-13, 04:26 PM
Mundo, Kennen, and Ezreal are also annoying harrassers. The latter not as much, but the first two have an almost endless supply of harrassment.
You've never laned against panth+mundo then, have you?:smallamused:

Shades of Gray
2010-06-13, 04:37 PM
Panth doesn't bother me. I have never fought against a good Pantheon. I never have trouble avoiding or surviving against him, and I can always out-harass him. Granted, I play Kat who can teleport and be a nuisance, and Gragas who can move quickly and take a beating.

Kara Kuro
2010-06-13, 04:42 PM
Agree with Kayle/Janna combos being.... kinda stupid. Not as bad as a 5v5 match I played with a Kayle/Janna/Soraka match. Constant heal stacks. RAWR!

Northforce
2010-06-13, 04:45 PM
With TF, you really, REALLY want to consider an AD build. Gate+yellow card+ autoattack will decimate enemy champs, turrets, inhibitors, and the Nexuses. It's hard to go wrong with AD on TF.

Faulty
2010-06-13, 05:01 PM
I'm thecreativepassion on Skype, if we ever play together and you use Skype.

Milskidasith
2010-06-13, 05:08 PM
At this point, the best team is probably Taric/Soraka/Janna/Ashe/Ezrael. A bit light on stuns, but all of the characters are so absurd at this point it's hard to care, plus the heal stacking and buffs are nuts; Ez's heal is nuts, the attack speed buff is nuts, Janna's shield is nuts, her ult is nuts, Soraka's healing can be nutty, and Taric's aura decimation, stun, and heal are strong as well. Ashe is there for damage and constant slows, woo.

Kara Kuro
2010-06-13, 05:12 PM
At this point, the best team is probably Taric/Soraka/Janna/Ashe/Ezrael. A bit light on stuns, but all of the characters are so absurd at this point it's hard to care, plus the heal stacking and buffs are nuts; Ez's heal is nuts, the attack speed buff is nuts, Janna's shield is nuts, her ult is nuts, Soraka's healing can be nutty, and Taric's aura decimation, stun, and heal are strong as well. Ashe is there for damage and constant slows, woo.

Agreed. As much as I generally don't like the people who do nothing but QQ about heal stacked teams... I can't necissarily tell them they're wrong to be at least a little angry.

Dust
2010-06-13, 05:15 PM
Although I have a full set of crit runes and offensive masteries for Tryndamere, who I consider my main (despite the fact that he's really not that good in 3v3 which I play exclusively etc etc)...even without any rune or mastery support, I can play as Taric and DESTROY the opposing team. He can pick up slack and either be a sodding amazing support monkey, or a healing tank, or dps with the best of them...or any combinaton thereof. I'm seriously loving this guy's versatility.

Shades of Gray
2010-06-13, 05:17 PM
At this point, the best team is probably Taric/Soraka/Janna/Ashe/Ezrael. A bit light on stuns, but all of the characters are so absurd at this point it's hard to care, plus the heal stacking and buffs are nuts; Ez's heal is nuts, the attack speed buff is nuts, Janna's shield is nuts, her ult is nuts, Soraka's healing can be nutty, and Taric's aura decimation, stun, and heal are strong as well. Ashe is there for damage and constant slows, woo.

If the opposing team has ignite, gangplank, tristana, or even executioner's calling then they can definitely focus fire certain targets and negate their healing pretty well. But in most cases that team would be unstoppable, yes.

On the team in question, for added lulz give everyone a spirit visage.

Dallas-Dakota
2010-06-13, 05:25 PM
Panth doesn't bother me. I have never fought against a good Pantheon. I never have trouble avoiding or surviving against him, and I can always out-harass him. Granted, I play Kat who can teleport and be a nuisance, and Gragas who can move quickly and take a beating.
He's just hard to play good.

When you look at it.

He has :
Q: Long range harass.
W: Stun(Also deals dmg), which jumps/pulls you to the target.(Much like Amumu's sticky bandage)
E: AoE dmg.
R: Tele which deals dmg.
:smallamused:

Also, on that note, people really underappreciate it how hard it is to do panth's ulti good.

Very, very hard.

EDIT: Kara Elagune, cool to see some other people from Arts & Crafts here. Even though I actually haven't posted there in quite some time. >.>

Milskidasith
2010-06-13, 05:51 PM
If the opposing team has ignite, gangplank, tristana, or even executioner's calling then they can definitely focus fire certain targets and negate their healing pretty well. But in most cases that team would be unstoppable, yes.

On the team in question, for added lulz give everyone a spirit visage.

Wrong. Trist will die getting into range for her E, executioners range is pathetic, and since parrlay doesn't apply grog soaked last I checked (which was, admittedly, nuts for laning) he'd die as well.

Yeah, you *can* negate the healing on one person, but doing so is very, very hard to do without getting killed, and the fun thing is that all of the heroes are very good otherwise; Ez's damage is nuts, Taric has super auras, Janna has shield to help others and great CC, Soraka can silence for decent damage and starfall to lower magic resist, Ashe is... still ashe, and Ez is still doing the same thing because his W heals, buffs attack speed, and does damage. Losing healing might be noticed, but the fun thing is that besides Soraka, you could take away their healing and they'd still be valid champ choices that can support incredibly well.

Dust
2010-06-13, 06:39 PM
The bane of my gaming experiences is an Ability Power Teemo with Ry's Sceptre. I have no idea what to do about this, her damage over time is so intense.

Shades of Gray
2010-06-13, 06:55 PM
Wrong.

Please stop doing that. Thank you.

Milskidasith
2010-06-13, 07:54 PM
Please stop doing that. Thank you.

Would you prefer I said "that's incorrect?" If so, I will do so, but I mean no malice... it's just that you are, in fact, incorrect; practically everybody on the team listed besides Soraka would not even have to change their strategy when dealing with teammates who are hit by execs, especially since they'd be healing the teammate being focused anyway. Exec's doesn't really help much against that team; there's a reason heal stacking is pretty much unbeatable. The champs that can reduce healing have their own problems making them less likable choices.

Shades of Gray
2010-06-13, 10:29 PM
Would you prefer I said "that's incorrect?" If so, I will do so, but I mean no malice... it's just that you are, in fact, incorrect;

Right, so I would prefer if you would say that I was incorrect, mistaken, or perhaps that you disagree with me. "Wrong" has a sort of more negative connotation to me. ><

Dragonus45
2010-06-13, 10:34 PM
To be honest its a pretty subjective sounding situation about a game interaction that could be heavily based on individual skill of those involved. Just saying wrong instead of something like i would disagree is a bit negative sounding. Even in that's not what you were meaning.

Shades of Gray
2010-06-13, 10:40 PM
I think the issue is that if two teams face off and they have equal skill, the heal stacking team will nearly always win. In addition, they will have great laning power as they can stay in a lane almost indefinitely.

My ideal anti-heal team (The one that might stand a decent chance):

Cho'Gath (Tank. His scream and rupture have decent disabling strength)
Fiddlesticks (Good disables and initiation)
Tristana (Best possible ranged carry in this situation.)
Annie (Good initiator and burst damage to counter heals)
Katarina (Good burst damage and can reduce healing.)

Milskidasith
2010-06-13, 10:47 PM
I think the issue is that if two teams face off and they have equal skill, the heal stacking team will nearly always win. In addition, they will have great laning power as they can stay in a lane almost indefinitely.

My ideal anti-heal team (The one that might stand a decent chance):

Cho'Gath (Tank. His scream and rupture have decent disabling strength)
Fiddlesticks (Good disables and initiation)
Tristana (Best possible ranged carry in this situation.)
Annie (Good initiator and burst damage to counter heals)
Katarina (Good burst damage and can reduce healing.)

Ashe is a better ranged carry; long duration stun is better than a (longer) duration halving heals to one guy.

The team also has some problems with just not being that decent to begin with; Cho is an underwhelming tank (he kind of works better as a hybrid caster), and Fiddle and Trist have lost their thunder recently, though Kat has gone up in terms of strength.

While it may well be a decent team against heal teams, it probably won't actually beat them.

Shades of Gray
2010-06-13, 10:49 PM
Who would you recommend as a tank vs the team? Amumu? Shen?

Who would you recommend to replace the roles of Annie and Fiddle, the initiators/disablers/bursters?

Milskidasith
2010-06-13, 10:56 PM
Who would you recommend as a tank vs the team? Amumu? Shen?

Who would you recommend to replace the roles of Annie and Fiddle, the initiators/disablers/bursters?

I would recommend your tank be Taric.

I would recommend your Annie and Fiddle are replaced with Janna for disables and Ezrael for bursting, though Annie is competent enough you could probably keep her on over Ez and not lose too much.

The best, and most likely only, way to beat a heal team is with a heal team, or a huge skill difference.

Poison_Fish
2010-06-13, 11:11 PM
I would recommend your tank be Taric.

I would recommend your Annie and Fiddle are replaced with Janna for disables and Ezrael for bursting.

The best, and most likely only, way to beat a heal team is with a heal team, or a huge skill difference.

Pretty much this. Bursting has been knocked down as of late (see, Ryze continuing to get nerfed despite being already a weak mage).

Another thing to keep in mind is that Milskid, myself, and likely several others have been playing the game for awhile and are in somewhat decent/highish ELO. The gameplay is actually different in those situations

Milskidasith
2010-06-13, 11:13 PM
Pretty much this. Bursting has been knocked down as of late (see, Ryze continuing to get nerfed despite being already a weak mage).

Another thing to keep in mind is that Milskid, myself, and likely several others have been playing the game for awhile and are in somewhat decent/highish ELO. The gameplay is actually different in those situations

I wouldn't say I'm in high elo; I haven't played for a while (got hooked on some other stuff I've played, such as DF, Super Mario Galaxy, Monster Hunter), and I was only about +20 wins over loses before. I'm not bad, and probably above average, but... eh. My advice isn't bad, but I may not always be entirely accurate, especially due to my lack of knowledge of the past... five patches or so, save characters I've played.

EDIT: Psst, it's milski, not milskid. Syllables go mil-ski-da-sith. Yeah, it's retarded, but I made it when I was 8, so... about 9 years ago, now.

Poison_Fish
2010-06-13, 11:19 PM
no worries.

Now, for Ez, they've tried to nerf his AP/heals down, but frankly the nerf they did is still not good enough, AP is the better way to go with him and his heal is still really good.

Joran
2010-06-14, 12:01 AM
Against a heal stacking team, I'd suggest piling on the AoE disables. If they're stunned/silenced, then they can't heal. Unless of course they stack cleanses and Banshee's Veils in which case you should just pack up and go home >_<

Amumu, Fiddlesticks, Annie, Malzahar, Alistar are all examples of good AoE disrupts. Hopefully you'll be able to spike down one while the team is stunned.

I've had very bad experiences with an Amumu and a Malzahar. Amumu initiates, Malzahar obliterates.

What did they do to Fiddlesticks?

Kara Kuro
2010-06-14, 12:19 AM
In the debate over mid-range-character... I'd still go with Trist over Ashe. Its nice to have a healing reducing DOT, and I personally love to rocket jump over some one and then blow them back into my allies/tower. The range is nice too, makes me feel a bit more secure in initiating alone. But, I also main Trist for the most part (figured I should be getting better with supports/healers as its kind of becoming insanity to try to put a 5v5 together without at least some heals, so I've been playing around with Soraka).

I don't play fiddlsticks myself, but a friend of mine just recently tried to play him again and noticed a difference.

Thrawn183
2010-06-14, 12:29 AM
The bane of my gaming experiences is an Ability Power Teemo with Ry's Sceptre. I have no idea what to do about this, her damage over time is so intense.

I've found the key to fighting Teemo is having a real bruiser. Wait until you're at full hp, and then just go smash his face. Yes, the poison is nasty, but it also takes a long time for the full effect. Teemo players know this. They know better than to sit in a slugging match with someone built for slugging.

Part of what makes Teemo scary is that when you run away he gets to fire a few more shots at you and then you have a couple more stacks of the poison, which makes him look even scarier. On the other hand, if you hurt him badly enough that he can't stay close for fear of getting killed, he has to run away and then runs into the problem that you're always having.

In a sense, it's kind of like playing against Ryze. You don't want to get hit when you're not ready, but when you are make sure to push the advantage for what it's worth.

Edit: Does Fiddle's bouncing silence still stack? If they took that away, it might have been what your friend was noticing.

Milskidasith
2010-06-14, 12:34 AM
In the debate over mid-range-character... I'd still go with Trist over Ashe. Its nice to have a healing reducing DOT, and I personally love to rocket jump over some one and then blow them back into my allies/tower. The range is nice too, makes me feel a bit more secure in initiating alone. But, I also main Trist for the most part (figured I should be getting better with supports/healers as its kind of becoming insanity to try to put a 5v5 together without at least some heals, so I've been playing around with Soraka).

I don't play fiddlsticks myself, but a friend of mine just recently tried to play him again and noticed a difference.

Ashe has kiting. It doesn't help the healing reducing DoT requires Trist to attack from her base range, which is actually pretty poor. I'd prefer a multi second stun to a movement ability, anyway.

Kara Kuro
2010-06-14, 12:50 AM
Ashe has kiting. It doesn't help the healing reducing DoT requires Trist to attack from her base range, which is actually pretty poor. I'd prefer a multi second stun to a movement ability, anyway.

I suppose. To each his own. I think my slight dislike of Ashe might come from the fact that Traxex/Drow Ranger WAS my favorite ranged carry in DotA and Ashe just doesn't seem to measure up in my experience.

I also like rocket jump as a good way to GTFO if you've killed a champion, and then have his buddies comming in after you. Its definitely nice that the cool down resets if you a KO a champion with it.

Poison_Fish
2010-06-14, 12:54 AM
I suppose. To each his own. I think my slight dislike of Ashe might come from the fact that Traxex/Drow Ranger WAS my favorite ranged carry in DotA and Ashe just doesn't seem to measure up in my experience.

I also like rocket jump as a good way to GTFO if you've killed a champion, and then have his buddies comming in after you. Its definitely nice that the cool down resets if you a KO a champion with it.

She's uh... better then Drow. Trade the AoE silence for a wide range Harass. The stacking agility for a map level PotM arrow that AoE slows.

And they are reworking her gold mechanic into a mini-clairvoyance.

Now, in a one on one slug match for solo power, don't get me wrong, tristana is quite good. Ashe works a bit better within a team as of right now.

Also <3 Shurelia's voice, that's the real reason I play Tristana :p

Milskidasith
2010-06-14, 01:00 AM
She's uh... better then Drow. Trade the AoE silence for a wide range Harass. The stacking agility for a map level PotM arrow that AoE slows.

And they are reworking her gold mechanic into a mini-clairvoyance.

Now, in a one on one slug match for solo power, don't get me wrong, tristana is quite good. Ashe works a bit better within a team as of right now.

Also <3 Shurelia's voice, that's the real reason I play Tristana :p

Shurelia voiced Trist? I thought her voice was way different than that judging by her zoning video.

As an aside, I've actually played matches with Shurelia before. She's pretty good, and really aggressive with Soraka. Unfortunately, my test realm is now broken so I can't update, and that's usually where the matches were.

EDIT: And the Test Realm is now down entirely, so even if I updated it, it wouldn't help.

Kara Kuro
2010-06-14, 02:01 AM
She's uh... better then Drow. Trade the AoE silence for a wide range Harass. The stacking agility for a map level PotM arrow that AoE slows.

And they are reworking her gold mechanic into a mini-clairvoyance.

Now, in a one on one slug match for solo power, don't get me wrong, tristana is quite good. Ashe works a bit better within a team as of right now.

Also <3 Shurelia's voice, that's the real reason I play Tristana :p

I just had a really good thing going with DR, personally. I can see what you're saying though. Glad to hear about the clairvoyance thing... I heard they were reworking that skill, not with what though. I'll have to see how she ends up. I bought both Ashe and Trist so its not as though I can't play either.

Dallas-Dakota
2010-06-14, 02:16 AM
Not to mention that she's the most available hero out of everybody.
And costing only 450.

Hmm, that sounds good, the E skill reworking. Might have to try my old main once more.

Poison_Fish
2010-06-14, 04:07 AM
Shurelia voiced Trist? I thought her voice was way different than that judging by her zoning video.

As an aside, I've actually played matches with Shurelia before. She's pretty good, and really aggressive with Soraka. Unfortunately, my test realm is now broken so I can't update, and that's usually where the matches were.

EDIT: And the Test Realm is now down entirely, so even if I updated it, it wouldn't help.

More often then not, I find myself with or against Zileas, Phreak, Penedragon, or Lima bean

And don't get me wrong Kara Kuro. Drow can be fun, I had a love affair with Windrunner myself despite her having some pretty heavy weaknesses. Characters can be made to work, even at higher tiers. They just may have more issues then others, but that doesn't mean amazing things can't be done. This is why I have Mundo as my avatar because I adore Mundo, have often had the one pub on our team unhappy that I'm playing Mundo when only 4 of us can game, and yet control my lane and be heavy late game DPS, essentially making the entire team scared to be hit in the face meats.

Knowing the weaknesses is half the battle.

http://steynian.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/gijoe.jpg

The rest of the battle? Finding a way to squeeze past them and make it work. It can be done though.

Edit: on that note, I'd love to have a team together for season one. But I know my former dota team won't be up to the task (we have since fallen apart) and I know I'd be pretty demanding as far as the whole skill/everything else goes (Casual play is fine, I don't mind so much, but I suppose I want to be a little srs bsns for team play if I do get into it). I'm just curious if any others here may have plans for such a team. If so, what are they?

Astrella
2010-06-14, 05:08 AM
I'd like to get a team together too, but being in Europe while most of you are in the US makes planning a bit iffy. (And not sure if I'm good enough anyway. :smalltongue: )

Dallas-Dakota
2010-06-14, 05:50 AM
There are one or two groups of people I play regularly with, so I might go with them.


For playground team, I might, but as Poison said, we're good for casual play, but for ranked team games, I'd want a bit more srs bsnus.
Instead of..

What are going to do today, Brains?
The same with we do every day, Pinky. Try the sunfire combo team.

Rama
2010-06-14, 08:46 AM
since parrlay doesn't apply grog soaked last I checked (which was, admittedly, nuts for laning) he'd die as well.

Actually, unless they changed it back about a month ago they did change parrlay to proc the grog soaked blade passive.

Rama
2010-06-14, 08:56 AM
I'm good for playing in the competitive season, I think we do need to orchestrate skills as well as champs if we do that though. No offense meant to anyone, but with the matchmaker if we have two good level 30s and three levels 15-20, we're gonna get stomped.

Without looking at a list so I'm probably leaving people I've played with off, I think Oni and Sirro match up well with me in skill. My best for the team are probably Fiddlesticks, Blitz, or Rammus depending on needs.

Brother Oni
2010-06-14, 11:30 AM
Part of what makes Teemo scary is that when you run away he gets to fire a few more shots at you and then you have a couple more stacks of the poison, which makes him look even scarier.

I was under the impression that Teemo's poison didn't stack, it just seems to as the counter restarts every time he hits you.

Compare to Twitch's poison ability which does stack, and his abilities are dependent on the number of stacks he has on you.



Without looking at a list so I'm probably leaving people I've played with off, I think Oni and Sirro match up well with me in skill. My best for the team are probably Fiddlesticks, Blitz, or Rammus depending on needs.

If we're planning to start doing things competitively, then we need to get voice comms of some sort.
I also need to finish grinding up my US account to 30 (think I'm 27 at the moment).

Microsoft releasing some sort of stability patch/service pack for Windows 7 would be nice too. :smallsigh:

Thrawn183
2010-06-14, 11:37 AM
You're probably right, I don't play much Teemo; however, I do know that far too often people run when they really shouldn't. I see this odd sort of behavior from people who want to get in and hit someone, and then they try to run away. The problem is they're hitting a ranged hero who gets off 2 or 3 more auto attacks while they're running away.

It's the same as when you're getting chased down and have no hope of escape. Instead of running and getting killed from behind, turn around and fight. At least try and take out a little more of the enemy's HP before you die. You never know, you might even force them back to heal after killing you. Of course, I don't recommend this if you actually do have a chance of getting away.

Edit: You're having trouble with Windows 7 stability? Odd. I haven't had a single problem with the OS since I built my computer a few months back.

Faulty
2010-06-14, 11:42 AM
Voice comm support would be awesome.

Anyway, I have to say I freaking love Katarina. I think she and Malzahar have become my favorites. I just did pretty well with an AP build (Hextech Gunblade, Sorcerer's Shoes, Void Staff and Rylai's Crystal Scepter). Any opinions on an AD build?

Shades of Gray
2010-06-14, 12:11 PM
Ideal AP build:

Start with Doran's shield if you are going mid. You could get away with an amplifying tome if you have a good lane partner. Then build Rylai's and your boots, possibly getting Mejai's if you are destroying. Then get other good AP items, like Abyssal Scepter or Will of the Ancients on an AP heavy team.

The thing with Kat is that you want to focus on AP or AD, don't do a hybrid as that limits her ultimate's power, you want to do as much as possible.

For an AD build, stacking BF swords/bloodthirsters is the way to go. There aren't really any other items that are good, as on-hit effect suck on her because she isn't an auto-attack hero (so things like Black Cleaver are useless.) In addition, she deals magical damage regardless of which route you take, so Brutalizer/Last Whisper doesn't get much bang for its buck.

I prefer AP myself.

Anyway, I'm going online. I'm up for a game with anyone.

lord_khaine
2010-06-14, 12:12 PM
I have allways been playing Katarina with a AD build, and it works great for me.

Shades of Gray
2010-06-14, 12:15 PM
Again, AD builds on her are great, especially since she can take down a tower with them, I just prefer AP builds myself since most of the stats that come with AD items (lifesteal, attack speed) aren't that much use to me. YMMV.

Poison_Fish
2010-06-14, 12:27 PM
Actually, unless they changed it back about a month ago they did change parrlay to proc the grog soaked blade passive.

Nope, that's gone. That was broken, it made him the best solo in the game. 40 extra damage + 50% healing at level 1? With a built up crit rune page/mana regen, you could literally shoot anyone into the ground.

On Kat, I do a bit of a hybrid. Rylais, then stacked BF swords. Mostly because slows are nice on her. The extra health doesn't hurt either.

Brother Oni
2010-06-14, 12:45 PM
Edit: You're having trouble with Windows 7 stability? Odd. I haven't had a single problem with the OS since I built my computer a few months back.

My build's listed in this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8515224&postcount=4) when I was having issues with installing Windows 7.

You've just reminded me that I haven't updated the chipset drivers yet. :smallsigh:

If I'm still having stability issues afterwards, do you mind if I send you a PM?

Joran
2010-06-14, 12:54 PM
Nope, that's gone. That was broken, it made him the best solo in the game. 40 extra damage + 50% healing at level 1? With a built up crit rune page/mana regen, you could literally shoot anyone into the ground.

On Kat, I do a bit of a hybrid. Rylais, then stacked BF swords. Mostly because slows are nice on her. The extra health doesn't hurt either.

Did they ever remove the heal off of Taric's ultimate? I remember reading it in patch notes before, but checking both LoL's official site and Leaguecraft, they both state that it still heals.

Astrella
2010-06-14, 12:56 PM
They did, unless the patch notes and my personal memory are lying. :smalltongue:

Poison_Fish
2010-06-14, 12:58 PM
Taric's ult heal is off. This makes Kayle potentially better in a heal stacked team, except that in a heal stacked team, Taric still makes everyone do decent damage for pushing towers.

Faulty
2010-06-14, 01:11 PM
I got the Hextech Gunblade because it was suggested in a guide I read. I can see how that would be unoptimal. AP seems like it'd improve your burst more because it'd increase the damage of the Shunpo you use to get in and Death Lotus everyone to death. AD would improve BB though.

Milskidasith
2010-06-14, 02:33 PM
Taric's ult heal is off. This makes Kayle potentially better in a heal stacked team, except that in a heal stacked team, Taric still makes everyone do decent damage for pushing towers.

Heal stacking is less about the healing and more about the fact that all the healers provide support options elsewhere... Janna increases damage and can use her moves to help the team whether they are ganking, fleeing, fighting, or chasing an enemy (only her ult can't be used to do everything, since you can't use it while chasing somebody), plus her shield isn't reduced by healing reduction, Taric provides massive armor and damage auras, Ez dishes out huge burst damage and attack speed buff/debuffs while healing, and Soraka lowers magic resist, silences for mediocre damage, and increases armor.

EDIT: All the spell vamp items in the game are essentially worthless, because they cost a crapload. The best hybrid item is, without a doubt, Rageblade.

EDIT X2: Poison, I could consider being on a team, but I'm probably not all that great... I certainly don't wind up matched with the developers.

Poison_Fish
2010-06-14, 02:53 PM
Oh, I know. I'm just saying Kayle can take a role in that team right now because she's a bit ridiculous right now.

Faulty
2010-06-14, 04:03 PM
Heal stacking is less about the healing and more about the fact that all the healers provide support options elsewhere... Janna increases damage and can use her moves to help the team whether they are ganking, fleeing, fighting, or chasing an enemy (only her ult can't be used to do everything, since you can't use it while chasing somebody), plus her shield isn't reduced by healing reduction, Taric provides massive armor and damage auras, Ez dishes out huge burst damage and attack speed buff/debuffs while healing, and Soraka lowers magic resist, silences for mediocre damage, and increases armor.

EDIT: All the spell vamp items in the game are essentially worthless, because they cost a crapload. The best hybrid item is, without a doubt, Rageblade.

EDIT X2: Poison, I could consider being on a team, but I'm probably not all that great... I certainly don't wind up matched with the developers.

I quite like the Rageblade for Nidalee and Akali.

Shades of Gray
2010-06-14, 04:18 PM
What is everyone's opinion on Nashor's Tooth? I'm thinking up a Kayle build that goes for it and the Rageblade.

Poison_Fish
2010-06-14, 04:21 PM
What is everyone's opinion on Nashor's Tooth? I'm thinking up a Kayle build that goes for it and the Rageblade.

Rageblade -> Nashors -> gunblade is what I've been doing with her.

Dallas-Dakota
2010-06-15, 06:53 AM
Weeeh, Jax is FUN.:smallbiggrin:

Faulty
2010-06-15, 07:52 AM
I'm in love with a girl and her name is Katarina.

http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/9391/katgame.jpg

If you'll notice, the one on their team that did best was their Kat. :smalltongue: She actually got first blood before minions even spawned. They got no turrets down, we got down all but two inhibs and the turrets in front of the nexus before they surrendered. I got 7 kills in the laning phase and like 8 or 9 and an assist before I died for the first time. I actually had enough money to buy Rylai's Scepter, Boots of Speed and a health pot on my first trip back. That felt good. By the way, as far as build, that blasting wand was heading for a Zhonya's Ring.

Rama
2010-06-15, 10:06 AM
Nice Faulty. And yeah, a good Kat can tear it up. Especially mid Kats, everything she does hurts so much for typical midders. I usually end up having to play very cautiously/turret hug against a good one when I'm mid.

Milskidasith
2010-06-15, 10:43 AM
Rageblade -> Nashors -> gunblade is what I've been doing with her.

Blech, gunblade is terrible... Even assuming spell vamp is actually worth the amount it costs (which is about 500 gold for what little you get from the base item), gunblade actually costs more money than it would to get its stats from component parts, save it's rather mediocre active. In comparison, Rageblade, fully charged, is over 2k underpriced. I'd just get some survivability after Nashors.

Poison_Fish
2010-06-15, 01:51 PM
Blech, gunblade is terrible... Even assuming spell vamp is actually worth the amount it costs (which is about 500 gold for what little you get from the base item), gunblade actually costs more money than it would to get its stats from component parts, save it's rather mediocre active. In comparison, Rageblade, fully charged, is over 2k underpriced. I'd just get some survivability after Nashors.

Depends on the team, I've been running with Janna, Ezeral, Ashe, and whatever the pub is picking. Again, pretty hard to deal with along with our burst. Now if I were solo-queing I'd drop the gunblade for either a banshee's or a GA. Rageblade is what I always get first however.

Gunblade isn't that bad, but it's certainly not a primary item for most people. It's situational. It has some ok burst and the stats aren't bad for hybrids since it holds some decent damage. The spell vamp is meh, but all spell vamp is.

Milskidasith
2010-06-15, 02:04 PM
Depends on the team, I've been running with Janna, Ezeral, Ashe, and whatever the pub is picking. Again, pretty hard to deal with along with our burst. Now if I were solo-queing I'd drop the gunblade for either a banshee's or a GA. Rageblade is what I always get first however.

Gunblade isn't that bad, but it's certainly not a primary item for most people. It's situational. It has some ok burst and the stats aren't bad for hybrids since it holds some decent damage. The spell vamp is meh, but all spell vamp is.

No, it's stats are literally worse than just buying the relevant AD and AP items without combining... if I recall correctly, the stats for it are that you're paying effectively 230 for it's unique active, when most combined items are far more efficient than base items. I think only Warmog's is less efficient than gunblade.

Dust
2010-06-15, 03:06 PM
Just dropped ten bucks to buy Twitch and really not feeling the poisonous rodent, especially with this week's 'everyone's a tank!' free rotation.

Astrella
2010-06-15, 03:13 PM
Twitch is a bit tricky when solo-queuing, he's at his best when he has decent support from his teammates.

Poison_Fish
2010-06-15, 03:25 PM
No, it's stats are literally worse than just buying the relevant AD and AP items without combining... if I recall correctly, the stats for it are that you're paying effectively 230 for it's unique active, when most combined items are far more efficient than base items. I think only Warmog's is less efficient than gunblade.

Don't get me wrong, I didn't say it was the most efficient item and it does need to be cheaper. However, it does hold a decent use that I've gotten out of it and I find it situational. If I am controlling a game, and that's typically how it's going, I've found the slow along with my /e/ + other abilities very useful for burst. Now it may not be Kayles best role, since that hasn't been fully determined, but it's been working situationally for now.

In a hard game, I'm not getting it. I'm sticking to rageblade + tooth and then going for something else.

lord_khaine
2010-06-15, 03:26 PM
Rageblade -> Nashors -> gunblade is what I've been doing with her.

I must say Nashor seems to work a lot better for me as a starter item.

Poison_Fish
2010-06-15, 03:33 PM
I must say Nashor seems to work a lot better for me as a starter item.

Pieces of it build easier if your having trouble farming. I usually can get a rageblade by the time I come back to base for the first time though.

Dallas-Dakota
2010-06-15, 04:08 PM
Apparently I am ''Pro Zilean'' with my 12/0/6.
(And cheered on by my allies as I save them from death or give them just that boost of speed to last hit the fleeing enemies while enemies curse the immortal one.:smalltongue:)

Shoulda gotten Mejai's earlier though, usually I'm not a big fan of stacking items(except bloodluster since the base stats are already pretty damn good) but I ended up with something like 5 stacks.(Weirdly enough, after I bought it, I rarely got kills but mainly assists.

Joran
2010-06-15, 04:58 PM
Season 1 Details Released:

http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=137300

Separate ladders for 3v3 Premade, 5v5 Premade and 5v5 Solo. Competitive matches will take the form of ban/pick with each team getting two bans. Exclusive picks means that the champion that you picked will not be available for the other team.

So, if you had two bans which champion would you try to ban? What would your first pick be?

For bans, I'd probably start with Fiddlesticks and probably pick Ezreall unless we get first pick, in which case we'd probably lead off with him. My team has a really, really good Ezreal player. Shen is probably another candidate for banning.

Thrawn183
2010-06-15, 05:05 PM
I would probably ban Nidalee. She can do everything. Also, while I'm not very good with her, my friend plays her occaisionally and it's just ugly. I mean, he usually plays mundo, so he only plays Nidalee maybe once every two weeks. He still averages somewhere around 18-2 with her. It's insane.

Joran
2010-06-15, 05:08 PM
I would probably ban Nidalee. She can do everything. Also, while I'm not very good with her, my friend plays her occaisionally and it's just ugly. I mean, he usually plays mundo, so he only plays Nidalee maybe once every two weeks. He still averages somewhere around 18-2 with her. It's insane.

That's a pretty good idea; ban characters you know that are good but none of you can play particularly well. If someone bans Alistar (or picks him), I'm going to weep.

Faulty
2010-06-15, 05:16 PM
Nidalee is versatile, but she seems like 3.5 D&D's Bard. Can do a lot, but not as well as a more specialized champion.

Dragor
2010-06-15, 05:38 PM
Nidalee is versatile, but she seems like 3.5 D&D's Bard. Can do a lot, but not as well as a more specialized champion.

Got to agree with this. I've played Nidalee a lot, and I only found I could be properly effective by being, appropriately, the ultimate 'predator'- utilising my movement speed, javelin range, and cougar pounce to mop up the enemies- other than that, I was simply a heal bot who had a particularly nasty sting to her javelin. But that's just me, I've seen Nidalee played in a myriad of ways. But I'd say she could be probably the best person to take down a tower quickly with: that extra attack speed buff sure does work wonders in dire situations.

Poison_Fish
2010-06-15, 08:12 PM
Janna will be the most banned character most likely.

Thrawn183
2010-06-15, 08:17 PM
That's a pretty good idea; ban characters you know that are good but none of you can play particularly well. If someone bans Alistar (or picks him), I'm going to weep.

Actually, I spent half my post saying that one of my friends can play Nidalee incredibly well. The strategy is probably the best that you're going to be able to come up with, really. The only other I can think of is if you have some kind of trick team that gets shut down by a specific combination or something.

I dunno, you could try and ban all ranged phys DPS?

Faulty
2010-06-15, 08:58 PM
Early ganks in cat form with Nid are good. As the game progresses you should have high AP so that your heals and cougar abilities are top notch. Rylai's + Sheen + Pounce can be nasty for chasing or finishing off enemies, especially when accompanied by your Q. You should be switching in and out of cat form. Ex: toss a trap in the brush, buff your carry, switch into cat and leap in for a swipe, get out and heal your tank, chuck a spear into the group and auto-attack while heal/buffing everytime you have it up, then switch into cat form, tear up runners, and switch back to human and toss your Q just in time to catch the last person as they run behind their nearest tower.

I soloed a side lane as Kat when we had a jungling WW earlier and I did not enjoy it. I was against Taric and Karthus. I held them back just fine and WW helped me gank Karthus, but having two of them there made ganking hard, so I felt I wasn't doing the murdering or pushing I should have been doing as Kat. Thoughts on Kat vs. 2 people in a lane? Was it just a bad set up?

Shades of Gray
2010-06-15, 09:01 PM
Kat is not a good 1v2, as she cannot deal enough damage to two targets until level 11 (by which point the laning phase is over.) She can't harass enough against any two-person combo. The reason she is a good mid-laner is because she has great single-target burst potential, and shines against multiple opponents later in the game.

Poison_Fish
2010-06-15, 10:52 PM
Early ganks in cat form with Nid are good. As the game progresses you should have high AP so that your heals and cougar abilities are top notch. Rylai's + Sheen + Pounce can be nasty for chasing or finishing off enemies, especially when accompanied by your Q. You should be switching in and out of cat form. Ex: toss a trap in the brush, buff your carry, switch into cat and leap in for a swipe, get out and heal your tank, chuck a spear into the group and auto-attack while heal/buffing everytime you have it up, then switch into cat form, tear up runners, and switch back to human and toss your Q just in time to catch the last person as they run behind their nearest tower.

I soloed a side lane as Kat when we had a jungling WW earlier and I did not enjoy it. I was against Taric and Karthus. I held them back just fine and WW helped me gank Karthus, but having two of them there made ganking hard, so I felt I wasn't doing the murdering or pushing I should have been doing as Kat. Thoughts on Kat vs. 2 people in a lane? Was it just a bad set up?

A Taric and Karthus couldn't push you out of the lane? Don't actually feel bad then. For a laning phase where your tying up two characters, both of whom could push a lane well or be elsewhere, then you were doing fine, even if it felt like you were hitting a wall. That's a time to be cautious and farm in those cases.

Milskidasith
2010-06-15, 11:15 PM
I'm just wondering how Taric, monster that he is, and Karthus, quite possibly in the top three or four harassers in the game, couldn't kill you and actually got ganked.

Faulty
2010-06-15, 11:35 PM
I was surprised I did so well, but still wish I could have done more. But really, to describe the Karthus's skill: he hit me with Lay Waste 3 times. In the entire laning phase. And none of them were the many times Taric stunned me. He also commited the sin of farming with Defile early game.

Astrella
2010-06-16, 07:52 AM
For those that haven't seen it yet, some extra info (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=137300) regarding Season One has been released.

Rama
2010-06-16, 08:35 AM
Season 1 Details Released:

http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=137300

For bans, I'd probably start with Fiddlesticks and probably pick Ezreall unless we get first pick, in which case we'd probably lead off with him. My team has a really, really good Ezreal player. Shen is probably another candidate for banning.

I'd go Zilean (hate those bombs) and Kennen. Those two tear me up no matter what character I play.

If I knew the other team's fiddle player was good I'd ban fiddle, but most are bad so I'm not usually too scared of them.

lord_khaine
2010-06-16, 08:40 AM
ohh btw, i play on the europe server under the name torbrisson

Dallas-Dakota
2010-06-16, 10:47 AM
I'd go Zilean (hate those bombs) and Kennen. Those two tear me up no matter what character I play.

If I knew the other team's fiddle player was good I'd ban fiddle, but most are bad so I'm not usually too scared of them.
Except that in ranked play, I'd think most people would only play heroes they're good at. So yeah...

Also, but I <3 Zilean.:smallfrown: Don't banses him.

Master_Rahl22
2010-06-16, 11:39 AM
I like the UI changes coming with Season One. Seeing several of the screenshots involving Ryze reminded me of something though. Namely, how the %&#@ do you counter Ryze? Every time I see him where he's not just a horrible player he dominates. I play Morde most of the time, and I tend to stack Magic Resist and Armor, and even getting more MR than Armor doesn't seem to help against him. Tips?

Thrawn183
2010-06-16, 12:11 PM
I like the UI changes coming with Season One. Seeing several of the screenshots involving Ryze reminded me of something though. Namely, how the %&#@ do you counter Ryze? Every time I see him where he's not just a horrible player he dominates. I play Morde most of the time, and I tend to stack Magic Resist and Armor, and even getting more MR than Armor doesn't seem to help against him. Tips?

Once he's thrown his spells at you, he's got nothing until they've finished their cooldown. Don't run away and hit him enough that he won't be at high enough HP to come after you again without a trip back to heal. Also don't stand next to another hero and let his orb bounce between the two of you. One hit isn't too bad.

Brother Oni
2010-06-16, 12:12 PM
Namely, how the %&#@ do you counter Ryze? Every time I see him where he's not just a horrible player he dominates. I play Morde most of the time, and I tend to stack Magic Resist and Armor, and even getting more MR than Armor doesn't seem to help against him. Tips?

Focus him. Ryze is very squishy and dies fast under concentrated fire. Silence and similar CC effects are always useful, so stun and gank him first.

Banshee's Veil is a good item as it'll enable you to avoid the initial ensnare (or if he doesn't use it, either of the two main damage abilities).

Try not to bunch up with your teammates or minions otherwise his ultimate + bouncy ball spell will wipe you out.

The trick is to survive his initial burst. Once he's shot his load (so to speak), he needs time to recover, so kill him then.

The problem is that Mordekaiser doesn't do much burst damage, which is what you need against Ryze. Force of Nature, Banshee's Veil and Mercury Treads are the best items to get to try and survive his burst, but ideally you'll need a dps teammate to help kill him.

Milskidasith
2010-06-16, 12:35 PM
Focus him. Ryze is very squishy and dies fast under concentrated fire. Silence and similar CC effects are always useful, so stun and gank him first.

Banshee's Veil is a good item as it'll enable you to avoid the initial ensnare (or if he doesn't use it, either of the two main damage abilities).

Try not to bunch up with your teammates or minions otherwise his ultimate + bouncy ball spell will wipe you out.

The trick is to survive his initial burst. Once he's shot his load (so to speak), he needs time to recover, so kill him then.

The problem is that Mordekaiser doesn't do much burst damage, which is what you need against Ryze. Force of Nature, Banshee's Veil and Mercury Treads are the best items to get to try and survive his burst, but ideally you'll need a dps teammate to help kill him.

Another thing: If you're in the laning phase, and Ryze casts on you, that's the time to move up to attack him; don't harass or attack when you feel like it, because the ball is in his court.

Also, if he reaches 40% CDR, last I checked, he could chain WRQEWQE together with no interruption and have his ult ready again within ten seconds, so he actually puts out decent sustained damage, especially with the heal+kite heavy metagame; it's just a shame he's squishy and doesn't contribute that much to a heal team besides damage, which they can get from actual carries.

EDIT: As for Season 1... there's no new info here. No release date scheduled, and everything they've posted has been a planned feature since day 1.

Joran
2010-06-16, 01:49 PM
EDIT: As for Season 1... there's no new info here. No release date scheduled, and everything they've posted has been a planned feature since day 1.

Well, the one bit of actual news is that 5v5 solo queue will have exclusive picks but NOT BANS. Apparently, the tech for bans/picks requires having one person in charge of bans and this won't work well with five individual players who may not agree.

Also, no replays and voice chat in time for Season 1.

Milskidasith
2010-06-16, 02:52 PM
Well, the one bit of actual news is that 5v5 solo queue will have exclusive picks but NOT BANS. Apparently, the tech for bans/picks requires having one person in charge of bans and this won't work well with five individual players which may not agree.

Also, no replays and voice chat in time for Season 1.

So they're revealed that Season 1 is worse than it was planned to be, joy.

Dallas-Dakota
2010-06-16, 04:27 PM
Well sorry about that guys, my game completely freaked out.:smallfurious:
Done for tonight, not in the mood for LoL anymore tonight because of game crapping out.

You guys powned them though.:smallsmile:

Well atleast I hope it helped that I kept their Panth(And to a certain matter Janna) really underfarmed when laning.:smallsmile:

Astrella
2010-06-16, 04:37 PM
Well, apologies too for my sucky game. Been almost exclusively playing supports for so long that DPS is rather hard for me to perform well with.

Milskidasith
2010-06-16, 04:40 PM
You guys are on right now?

Faulty
2010-06-16, 04:40 PM
I am on right now.

Milskidasith
2010-06-16, 04:41 PM
I can't believe I've never actually attended the meet ups; do you guys have an IRC or vent server? >_>

Faulty
2010-06-16, 04:42 PM
I asked and got a "no". I friended you, by the way. I'm waiting on AlterForm and Nano, also from the forums, but they appear to be in a possibly long game.

Milskidasith
2010-06-16, 04:43 PM
I asked and got a "no". I friended you, by the way. I'm waiting on AlterForm and Nano, also from the forums, but they appear to be in a possibly long game.

At the moment, the game refuses to let me log back on. :smallfrown:

EDIT: And now it did, yay!

Faulty
2010-06-16, 04:48 PM
That sucks. :( I want to connect with some of ya'll.

Zeful
2010-06-16, 05:21 PM
Okay so I've played for a couple of days, but the game seems to be pretty lack luster, is there something I'm missing?

Brother Oni
2010-06-16, 05:27 PM
You're going to have to be a little more informative than 'lackluster'.

What precisely don't you like about the game?

Dragonus45
2010-06-16, 05:51 PM
I need to get my level up so i can play with you guys when you get together. Anyone know hot to set up a server for vent.

Joran
2010-06-16, 06:05 PM
Okay so I've played for a couple of days, but the game seems to be pretty lack luster, is there something I'm missing?

Friends? I wouldn't play this game except some of my friends play it, so it's a way we can stay in contact and have fun together. Just playing in the solo queue can be soul-sapping with bad players and with jerks and other reprobates on the Internet.

Also, finding your champion is when the game "clicked" for me. Once you find the perfect champion that matches the type of game you like to play, then the game gets much more fun.

Milskidasith
2010-06-16, 07:19 PM
Well those matches were fun, save the pubs we had. AFK Janna and suicidal and abrasive Trynd were not.

Notes: I am pretty good as Zilean, although I didn't feel like I really ulted other people much, though it was probably due to the fact you guys just weren't dying all that much in the fights we were in, and I was playing the initiator since I could survive it.

I am really not so great as Ashe, or at least not in the game we played.

Faulty
2010-06-16, 08:20 PM
You did ult Tryndamere that one time. :smalltongue:

Zeful
2010-06-16, 11:12 PM
You're going to have to be a little more informative than 'lackluster'.

What precisely don't you like about the game?

Generally the repetitiveness, and that I apparently get stuck playing with people who are much better than me.


Friends? I wouldn't play this game except some of my friends play it, so it's a way we can stay in contact and have fun together. Just playing in the solo queue can be soul-sapping with bad players and with jerks and other reprobates on the Internet.

Also, finding your champion is when the game "clicked" for me. Once you find the perfect champion that matches the type of game you like to play, then the game gets much more fun.
I don't really know anyone that plays the game. Blatant lies, I just meet up with them once a week, I just started playing after I left them for the week.
I played Sivir for a while but then the new week rolled around so I'm stuck playing people I don't understand the capabilities of more.

Thrawn183
2010-06-16, 11:30 PM
Spend a month playing every hero that is available for free and not only will you become a better player because you actually recognize how the heroes you are laning against work, but you will also learn to recognize the similarities between various different heroes.

At the end of the month, you will have a pretty decent idea of what kind of hero you like to play and may have even made a few friends online in the mean time.

Faulty
2010-06-17, 01:03 AM
Generally the repetitiveness, and that I apparently get stuck playing with people who are much better than me.

The former criticism is often leveled at games like Team Fortress 2 or Left 4 Dead (2), which generally have few regularly played maps. The thing that you realize with enough play though is that, with just over 50 champions to play as, each of which can be built multiple ways, and who can end up in seemingly infinite arrays with different synergies, no two games will be alike. Play Summoner's Rift as Tristana ten times will result in a different and interesting game every time depending on team composition, what lane you end up in and with whom, how you build your character, etc. Once you appreciate this, the game will feel more interesting.

As for playing with people better than you, as you get a hang of the game, the gap will seem a lot less vast. When I first played, I had no idea how to build a character properly, what to do in a lane, and whenever a team battle came about I was so confused by everything going on and so unfamiliar with the different characters that I died quickly and did nothing prior. Practice will eliminate this.



I don't really know anyone that plays the game. Blatant lies, I just meet up with them once a week, I just started playing after I left them for the week.

Play with us! :smallsmile:


I played Sivir for a while but then the new week rolled around so I'm stuck playing people I don't understand the capabilities of more.

Leaguecraft (http://leaguecraft.com/strategies/guides). Filter by high ratings (excellent to good) and recent patches (the past one to three) to single out the better guides. As you become familiar with the items and what roles different characters are, and what is generally good for different roles (ex: how Aegis of the Legion is almost always a useful item for tanks or how Exhaust is a good summoner spell for characters with no crowd control aka CC), playing unfamiliar characters becomes easier. You'll generally also find roles that you prefer as you play many characters; ex: if you enjoy Blitzcrank, Shen, and Taric, you're probably a tank person, and if Fiddlesticks and Annie are enjoyable, you're probably a mage person. Seriously, most of this will come with practice. Also: make sure to buy champions you really like. It's easy to get enough IP to buy first through third tier champions*.

*Tier 1 = characters that cost 500ish IP (Yi, Soraka, Nunu, etc.); Tier 2 = characters that cost 1350 (Singed, Poppy, Dr. Mundo, etc.); Tier 3 = characters that cost 3150 (Mordekaiser, Jax, Fiddlesticks, etc.); Tier 4 = characters that cost 6300 (Karthus, Twitch, Ezrael, etc.). Mind you, Tier 1 characters can be useful in higher end play (ex: Ashe), while Tier 3 and 4 characters can be useless to average (Shaco or Malzahar), so don't feel like buying a low tier character will be a long run waste, or that buying a high tier character is a necessity.

Dallas-Dakota
2010-06-17, 02:00 AM
Malzahar? Useless to avarage?

He can ROCK your boat, he just needs a decent/good player who knows how to play him.(Which him being this new, many don't (yet))

Poison_Fish
2010-06-17, 02:10 AM
Malzahar? Useless to avarage?

He can ROCK your boat, he just needs a decent/good player who knows how to play him.(Which him being this new, many don't (yet))

his qw and e aren't bad. It's his ult. A solid disable is nice, but it takes you out of the fight as well effectively. He's also quite squishy and slow. In the chasing game that is the current, it's where he fails to stack up.

But again, don't let this discourage you. I've said before heroes can be made to work, and it only really becomes a problem against good teams or much higher ELO.

Faulty
2010-06-17, 06:33 AM
Malzahar is fun and can be good but I think, generally and mechanically, he's not insane. He's one of my favorite mages, but I can think of other ones I'd rather have on my team.

Brother Oni
2010-06-17, 06:46 AM
Also: make sure to buy champions you really like. It's easy to get enough IP to buy first through third tier champions*.


I'd like to point out that the tier system is solely to do with pricing, not effectiveness.
There are plenty of very effective low tier champions.



Generally the repetitiveness, and that I apparently get stuck playing with people who are much better than me.
I'll echo what the others have said - practice, practice, practice.

When I first started playing this, I ended up quitting a game because I was so bored of the back and forth part of the laning phase.
Now that I'm better, I understand more about the mechanics and the constant back and forth is now quite interesting as it gives you time to scope out how good your opponents are.
I tend to play harassing/tank characters, so I'm usually rewarded for being aggressive, which coincidentally is how I like to play.

Play a couple of bot games with each champion on rotation and see if you can find a particular champion or a style of play that just clicks with you. Once you find that, the game becomes a lot more fun.

I wouldn't go looking at guides just yet, until you find your ideal champion - most of the time, the suggested items are good enough for you to get a feel for each champion. Once you find someone you like, then it's time to start learning all about them and finding a particular item build that suits you.

Faulty
2010-06-17, 06:57 AM
I'd like to point out that the tier system is solely to do with pricing, not effectiveness.
There are plenty of very effective low tier champions.

I know, which is what I was trying to explain. I didn't want him to confuse them as being a quality related thing, as you might potentially.

Brother Oni
2010-06-17, 06:59 AM
I know, which is what I was trying to explain. I didn't want him to confuse them as being a quality related thing, as you might potentially.

I know, that comment was for his benefit rather than for yours. :smallbiggrin:

Joran
2010-06-17, 10:31 AM
his qw and e aren't bad. It's his ult. A solid disable is nice, but it takes you out of the fight as well effectively. He's also quite squishy and slow. In the chasing game that is the current, it's where he fails to stack up.

But again, don't let this discourage you. I've said before heroes can be made to work, and it only really becomes a problem against good teams or much higher ELO.

Well, I find the issue with Malzahar is that two of his spells (the AoE and the portal) are somewhat hard to aim. If people are moving, they won't land. Combine him with an Amumu and Amumu's ultimate + Malzahar's AoE + Portal do a ton of damage; people are stuck in the AoE and the portal is easier to aim.

But yeah, he's not quite as good as some of the other mages around, but his mechanics seem pretty interesting.

Milskidasith
2010-06-17, 11:08 AM
Well, I find the issue with Malzahar is that two of his spells (the AoE and the portal) are somewhat hard to aim. If people are moving, they won't land. Combine him with an Amumu and Amumu's ultimate + Malzahar's AoE + Portal do a ton of damage; people are stuck in the AoE and the portal is easier to aim.

But yeah, he's not quite as good as some of the other mages around, but his mechanics seem pretty interesting.

Interesting they may be, but he doesn't deal significantly higher damage than other mages, so it's not really the greatest tradeoff.

Poison_Fish
2010-06-17, 12:59 PM
Interesting they may be, but he doesn't deal significantly higher damage than other mages, so it's not really the greatest tradeoff.

Pretty much. You could get a more consistent silence, a disable that lasts just as long as his ult that isn't channeling, and massive AoE damage from Fiddles.

Joran
2010-06-17, 01:13 PM
Interesting they may be, but he doesn't deal significantly higher damage than other mages, so it's not really the greatest tradeoff.

If his voidling was a really good pusher, it might make him more interesting. But yeah, as Poison Fish said, Fiddlesticks is basically better.

Which is why I'm banning his ass first ;)

Milskidasith
2010-06-17, 01:17 PM
If his voidling was a really good pusher, it might make him more interesting. But yeah, as Poison Fish said, Fiddlesticks is basically better.

Which is why I'm banning his ass first ;)

You should probably be banning Taric, Ezrael, Janna, Ashe, Soraka, (maybe) Annie, and (maybe) Shen first.

Terazul
2010-06-17, 02:48 PM
If his voidling was a really good pusher, it might make him more interesting.

Yeeaaah... As is in my circle we refer to Mal's passive as "Gives a random enemy champion 15 gold every 30 seconds."

And yeah, Janna/Soraka first here.

Astrella
2010-06-17, 02:56 PM
Blech, that would the disadvantage for me, both of my favorite/ best champions would be almost consistently banned.

Makes one wish for the days when hardly no-one played Janna when I could at least play her in peace. :smalltongue:

Shades of Gray
2010-06-17, 03:22 PM
Anyway, I'm logging in now. Feel free to join up with me. Username: PierreAbelard.

Faulty
2010-06-17, 03:31 PM
I just logged on myself.

Kettle
2010-06-17, 03:34 PM
Been playing off and on for close to a month now, as time permits. I main Amumu because people don't seem to like to tank, but I like Sivir a lot too. It'd be fun to play with you guys sometime, I'm Kettle747 on the US server. :smallsmile:

Dragonus45
2010-06-17, 03:38 PM
Im on right now as well,

Milskidasith
2010-06-17, 03:52 PM
I'm on as well.

Shades of Gray
2010-06-17, 04:08 PM
Apologies, all. My game client is acting screwy. Everything I do gets an error message... I probably need to reinstall.

Astrella
2010-06-17, 04:32 PM
Anyone seen those Chinese Lol Backgrounds (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=100186)?

Annie's my background, looks awesome.

Brother Oni
2010-06-17, 06:18 PM
I quite like the Zilean one, although the Eve one is... well it wouldn't look out of place if there were tentacles involved.

Shades of Gray
2010-06-17, 06:56 PM
I'm currently alternating between the Fiddlesticks, Amumu, and Blitzcrank wallpapers.

Faulty
2010-06-17, 07:42 PM
I had French Maid Nidalee as my background. Despite it's misogyny, I think she actually looks cool in that outfit. Fiddlesticks now dominates it though. Damn that wallpaper is cool. D:

I. Hate. Soraka.

Nano
2010-06-18, 01:08 AM
I just stole Baron from the enemy team with a random meteor as Veigar. While we were beginning a massive push down middle. It ended the game.

Quite possibly the most epic thing I have ever accomplished.

Darth Mario
2010-06-18, 01:28 AM
I just stole Baron from the enemy team with a random meteor as Veigar. While we were beginning a massive push down middle. It ended the game.

Quite possibly the most epic thing I have ever accomplished.

I'm Darth Blitzcrank, and I approve this epic.

Faulty
2010-06-18, 10:23 AM
I think I had my favorite kill ever yesterday. I'm Kat, Warwick and Morde are taking our bot inhib. I Shunpo in and Death Lotus to try and scare them off. When the DL finish I throw a blade at Morde. Immediately after throwing it, Warwick pounces me with his ult. Had the ult finished I would have died, but right at that moment the Bouncing Blade bounced off of Morde and killed WW in one hit.

Pie Guy
2010-06-18, 11:24 AM
It turns out I'm freakishly good with Annie, better than anyone else so far.

On a side note: How can I make a custom skin? I want to make one for Annie of a firebat from the original Starcraft, so I don't feel all creepy playing as a 6 year old.

Zeful
2010-06-18, 11:31 AM
On a side note: How can I make a custom skin? I want to make one for Annie of a firebat from the original Starcraft, so I don't feel all creepy playing as a 6 year old.

Some 3D modeling courses would be a good start, since you're going to change the original model (and by change I mean create from scratch). Then you're going to need to make the skin from scratch since the old skin can't fit on the new model. Then you need to find where the skins for each character are and replace the default model and skin with your new one so there's going to be some overwriting involved.

Pie Guy
2010-06-18, 11:34 AM
Some 3D modeling courses would be a good start, since you're going to change the original model (and by change I mean create from scratch). Then you're going to need to make the skin from scratch since the old skin can't fit on the new model. Then you need to find where the skins for each character are and replace the default model and skin with your new one so there's going to be some overwriting involved.

Sounds like a fun summer project.

Terazul
2010-06-18, 11:44 AM
Sounds like a fun summer project.

The second part is easy enough; You don't need to actually overwrite the original model in the heropak_client.zip. I would actually strongly suggest you don't. Instead, once in the League of Legends folder, just go to game -> Data -> Characters, and then make an appropriate folder for the character in question. In this case, it'd just be 'Annie', and you'd just drop her .dds file in there. Same applies for all the other champions, though occasionally you need to lookup what the original champ's folder is in the heropak_client.zip (Tryndamere's folder is DarkChampion, for instance. Crazy.)

But yeah, it just changes it so you'll see the custom skin whenever you load; other players will see it as normal, unless they have their own custom installed. If you want to show off a purchased skin while still using something different (for example, I use a Blue and Gold variant of Dragon Knight Mord), just rename the .dds to the appropriate skin name, and whenever you pick the skin, the official one will show for everyone else, while your custom one will display for you.

And eh, it's not all that hard, if you have the right program. (http://leaguecraft.com/skins) (It's mostly editing textures, not actually remodeling, yo).

Astrella
2010-06-18, 01:32 PM
Well, a firebat would go a bit beyond a simple reskin though.

Pie Guy
2010-06-18, 01:51 PM
Well, a firebat would go a bit beyond a simple reskin though.

And hopefully an awesome one.

Milskidasith
2010-06-18, 02:01 PM
I used to play a lot of Annie, she's really not hard, though I don't use flash on her now because it's getting removed (eventually).

Basically, she's a really simple caster... get disintegrate up a couple points (three is usually where I cap it) while upgrading incinerate later, last hit with incinerate, stun the enemy and incinerate him when you can, gank somebody/your lane at level 6 by stunning with winbear.

Basically, my skill progression goes QWQWQRWWWQRQEEEREE. The reason I switch to W more is that, after a certain amount, disintegrate will always last hit somebody, and incinerate gets more damage per level, if I recall correctly.

toasty
2010-06-18, 03:12 PM
So when do you US players get together again? I'm on CST time now so I should be able to actually play with you regularly!

Dallas-Dakota
2010-06-18, 03:17 PM
Usually between 2 hour ago till 2-3 hours is the time we're on.

Atleast thats me.

Faulty
2010-06-18, 03:41 PM
Wait, are there scheduled meet up times like the WC3 group has?

Astrella
2010-06-18, 03:42 PM
Aye, Saturdays around 4 pm est normally.

Faulty
2010-06-18, 10:25 PM
My stats as Katarina are currently 13 wins, 7 losses, 168 kills, 76 deaths, and 144 assists. :3 I also bought Taric. Woo!

Folytopo
2010-06-19, 12:25 AM
I had a very good time today in my first games. Thank you guys.

toasty
2010-06-19, 06:00 AM
Hmm... Saturday this week (today) in the PM won't work cuz I have a party. But I will try and play with you guys a lot over the summer. Also, anyone who wants to play an odd DotA game here or there is welcomed to tell me and we can set up some timings!

Astrella
2010-06-19, 06:17 AM
Probably not going to show up tonight either, still got two days of exams left so gonna squeeze out the last bit of work effort.

Pie Guy
2010-06-19, 01:27 PM
Anyone on right now?

toasty
2010-06-19, 02:48 PM
Nope :p

I mean... I'm "on" but I'm actually gonna be AFK so...

Zeful
2010-06-19, 03:04 PM
I'm on, Username Zeful

Astrella
2010-06-19, 03:26 PM
Online right now. Where's everybody... :smallfrown:

Astrella
2010-06-19, 05:01 PM
Mal is rapidly becoming my new favourite hero.

Thrawn183
2010-06-19, 05:43 PM
His "E" ability is amazing because of the mana it regenerates. Let's me focus solely on AP instead of mana regen.

olelia
2010-06-19, 07:13 PM
The full roflcopter chain is DeathFire grasp - Q - W -E -R and then ignite while ulting...if the enemy doesnt have cleanse it is nearly impossible to survive this combo :smallamused:.

Milskidasith
2010-06-19, 08:43 PM
His "E" ability is amazing because of the mana it regenerates. Let's me focus solely on AP instead of mana regen.

It's not exactly reliable to use that purely for mana regen, though it helps while laning.

Faulty
2010-06-19, 08:44 PM
Care to explain the Mal love?

Fawkes
2010-06-19, 08:56 PM
Sorry about that terrible game I played earlier today. Kept making stupid mistakes. I played a couple practice rounds after it, so I think I'm warmed up again after my time away.

toasty
2010-06-19, 10:13 PM
Who is Mal?

Faulty
2010-06-19, 10:19 PM
Malzahar. The guy with the Voidlings.

Zeful
2010-06-19, 11:39 PM
I have learned to hate melee heroes with a passion. They lack the staying power, strength and useful abilities to actually fight in melee.

Milskidasith
2010-06-20, 12:17 AM
I have learned to hate melee heroes with a passion. They lack the staying power, strength and useful abilities to actually fight in melee.

You just realized this? The only useful melee heroes are tanks, ones who rely on their abilities to do things at range, Warwick, and Jax. Well, there may be a few more who are improving, but that's the general list. (Warwick is not good at low levels since he is used for jungling, though.)

Zeful
2010-06-20, 12:23 AM
You just realized this? The only useful melee heroes are tanks, ones who rely on their abilities to do things at range, Warwick, and Jax. Well, there may be a few more who are improving, but that's the general list. (Warwick is not good at low levels since he is used for jungling, though.)
Yes I just realized this, I've been playing for less than a week.

Though Master Yi seems pretty decent laneing with a good support character.

Milskidasith
2010-06-20, 12:51 AM
Yes I just realized this, I've been playing for less than a week.

Though Master Yi seems pretty decent laneing with a good support character.

He's OK because of Alpha Strike. He's just not any good in teamfights because you can nuke him down incredibly quickly, although his ability to avoid abilities with alpha strike can, if timed right, negate some of that.

Poison_Fish
2010-06-20, 05:18 AM
You just realized this? The only useful melee heroes are tanks, ones who rely on their abilities to do things at range, Warwick, and Jax. Well, there may be a few more who are improving, but that's the general list. (Warwick is not good at low levels since he is used for jungling, though.)

Mundo not tank! Mundo king of early laning! Then Mundo not smash as much face.

But yeah, most melee DPS to even get close to viable (IE, high damage output and maybe some survivability) are really late game. By that point, others can still just toast them. Tanks overall are much more forgiving then regular old melee DPS. On that note, I do enjoy Garen much more as a tank then as DPS.

toasty
2010-06-20, 07:53 AM
Its a shame Melee DPS are so horrible, some of them, like WW and Yi are really fun. I still old WW as my favorite character.

Luckily however, I also play Ammunu and Morde, I actually bought Morde (and a cool skin. :smallcool:). Hmm... its really fun playing with Morde.

Thrawn183
2010-06-20, 09:26 AM
I just want them to come out with some more pirates to balance out the absurd number of ninjas they have.

I'd love if one of them was just a straight up pirate ship.

Edit: I do of course recognize the drawback of Malzahar being that he essentially doesn't have any crowd control.

Oh, I played a practice game as Tristana a couple weeks ago and got to 20 stacks on leviathan, mejai's and occult. It was less effective than I would have thought (though not terrible), though I know this would be totally useless in real play.

Shades of Gray
2010-06-20, 11:07 AM
http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/4327/g15928.png

Tried a sunfire match. It was annoying, as we had no magic resist and they had a fed Veigar. It went on for a while, but then Twisted Fate backdoored us.

Zeful
2010-06-20, 11:11 AM
Anybody on?

Nano
2010-06-20, 11:11 AM
I'll be on in an hour or two, if you're still up for games then.


(Also, I love playing as Ashe. Small profile means I don't get targeted much in team fights. I've played eight games with her since buying her yesterday, and don't have one loss yet.)

Zeful
2010-06-20, 12:55 PM
When you're on add me.

Dragonus45
2010-06-20, 01:36 PM
Im gonna be on in about a half an hour.

Master_Rahl22
2010-06-20, 02:35 PM
Anybody on US server right now?

I sent friend requests to Zeful and Dragonus45, my name ingame is Goltoth

Astrella
2010-06-20, 02:37 PM
We really need to update that name list in the original post...

Poison_Fish
2010-06-20, 02:59 PM
We really need to update that name list in the original post...

At some point yeah. Granted, we are getting close to a new thread soon enough.

Milskidasith
2010-06-20, 03:07 PM
At some point yeah. Granted, we are getting close to a new thread soon enough.

I am really, really lazy and don't pay attention to this thread nearly enough, aside from discussions on champs. I nominate Poison to run the next thread. My only request is that the tagline for the thread be either "We go where we please" or some other quote from League of Legends. :smalltongue:

Astrella
2010-06-20, 03:20 PM
"League of Legends II: Thread goes where it pleases"?

Milskidasith
2010-06-20, 03:23 PM
"League of Legends II: Thread goes where it pleases"?

If it works for Mundo, it works for me.*

*Except throwing bloody meat cleavers at people. That tends to work *very* poorly in real life.

Shades of Gray
2010-06-20, 03:25 PM
League of Legends II: We will post where we please!
League of Legends II: Anything less would be uncivilized.
League of Legends II: ALL TANKS SUNFIRE CAPES ONLY

Faulty
2010-06-20, 03:28 PM
Akali's taunt? "When will they ever fix match making?" :smalltongue: Also, "Violence solves everything."

My problem with Mal is that he can nuke someone when his ulti is up and he has Deathfire Grasp, Ignite and can catch his enemy on one of his little void rift things. And then can do little that someone else can do better. Compare him to Fiddlesticks...

Mal has:
- His passive spawns a pet that doesn't last long, can't be controlled and basically gives your enemy bonus gold and exp.
- His Q scales well with AP and silences, but it's hard to aim, and the damage is split between both beams, resulting in the possibility of only doing half damage.
- His W is hard to aim given that most people will not stand in it aimlessly. It's smaller than Nasus' and he has no snare like Morgana.
- His E scales really well for the first 3 ranks, has good AP scaling, and is one of the best minion farming abilities in the game IMO. At rank 4 and 5 you only have to kill like 4 creeps to get the mana you spent back. Unfortunately it's not too dangerous against champions, at least in my experience. Though I did see it kill 3 low health champions who were running in a group. It was lol.
- His ult is pretty boss, but it's a single target spell that leaves him vulnerable and you can only use summoner spells and items during it. Can't really be used in team fights effectively and you shouldn't be off on your own ganking after the laning phase (generally).

Fiddlesticks:
- His passive makes his ult even more dangerous, and makes nearby enemies more vulnerable to the entire team's spells.
- His Q is really good CC, and can make people run towards you, which is great for stopping runners.
- His W leaves him immobile but can do good damage and heals him, giving him good health regain potential.
- His E bounces a bajillion times, does pretty good damage and silences. Plus it can hit targets multiple times.
- His R will eat entire groups of people alive, and he can cast spells and use summoner spells and items during it.

>_> I like Fiddle.

Astrella
2010-06-20, 03:31 PM
The main thing that seperates Mal from the other casters is that he's a very good minion clearer.

(You could also say that his skills allow you to "manipulate" enemy movement, but that's a bit of an iffy argument.)

Faulty
2010-06-20, 03:32 PM
Karthus with Defile after a certain level can clear out minions while walking by them. Anivia's quite good at it too, or at least that's my perception. I have not played her.

Zeful
2010-06-20, 03:33 PM
Okay, this bugs me. No Quintessence slots open until level 10, who would use the lesser Quintessence runes, when the T2 ones also open up at level 10?

Milskidasith
2010-06-20, 03:34 PM
Akali's taunt? "When will they ever fix match making?" :smalltongue: Also, "Violence solves everything."

My problem with Mal is that he can nuke someone when his ulti is up and he has Deathfire Grasp, Ignite and can catch his enemy on one of his little void rift things. And then can do little that someone else can do better. Compare him to Fiddlesticks...

Mal has:
- His passive spawns a pet that doesn't last long, can't be controlled and basically gives your enemy bonus gold and exp.
- His Q scales well with AP and silences, but it's hard to aim, and the damage is split between both beams, resulting in the possibility of only doing half damage.
- His W is hard to aim given that most people will not stand in it aimlessly. It's smaller than Nasus' and he has no snare like Morgana.
- His E scales really well for the first 3 ranks, has good AP scaling, and is one of the best minion farming abilities in the game IMO. At rank 4 and 5 you only have to kill like 4 creeps to get the mana you spent back. Unfortunately it's not too dangerous against champions, at least in my experience. Though I did see it kill 3 low health champions who were running in a group. It was lol.
- His ult is pretty boss, but it's a single target spell that leaves him vulnerable and you can only use summoner spells and items during it. Can't really be used in team fights effectively and you shouldn't be off on your own ganking after the laning phase (generally).

Fiddlesticks:
- His passive makes his ult even more dangerous, and makes nearby enemies more vulnerable to the entire team's spells.
- His Q is really good CC, and can make people run towards you, which is great for stopping runners.
- His W leaves him immobile but can do good damage and heals him, giving him good health regain potential.
- His E bounces a bajillion times, does pretty good damage and silences. Plus it can hit targets multiple times.
- His R will eat entire groups of people alive, and he can cast spells and use summoner spells and items during it.

>_> I like Fiddle.

Fiddle is pretty damn good.

Another problem with Mal is cleanse: It's so incredibly powerful against his ult, and that's all he's got. His ult isn't even that great as far as killing people goes; you can get just as long of a stun without being so close to the enemy from plenty of other ults, some normal skills (Fiddle's fear), and, of course, much longer with Ashe's ult... and Ashe also has range, more damage potential, more CC, and less squishiness.

Basically, I kind of think Mal would be better off retooled into a support DPS like Morgona, with good defensive stats and maybe a bit more CC added (slow on his DoT?). He just doesn't have the burstiness required to be a nuker, but he has the stats of one, which isn't that great in this game.

Sirro: Annie can W away entire creep waves, Veigar can meteor drop them, Zilean can bomb/doublebomb them, morg can tormented soil, ryze can ultclear them (he's not great at it until then, but his ult is very short cooldown), etc, etc.

Thrawn183
2010-06-20, 03:36 PM
He's also a decent answer to tanks, due to doing more damage against enemies with more HP. Really though, it's his lack of cc that does him in as a truly legitimate option. Cleanse just wrecks him though.

Edit: You must be a Shen with cleanse. Actually, I can't remember ever seeing a shen without cleanse.

Faulty
2010-06-20, 03:37 PM
Okay, this bugs me. No Quintessence slots open until level 10, who would use the lesser Quintessence runes, when the T2 ones also open up at level 10?

T2 ones cost more? Arguably you should just wait until level 30 and then buy T3 runes for your favorite characters.


Fiddle is pretty damn good.

Another problem with Mal is cleanse: It's so incredibly powerful against his ult, and that's all he's got. His ult isn't even that great as far as killing people goes; you can get just as long of a stun without being so close to the enemy from plenty of other ults, some normal skills (Fiddle's fear), and, of course, much longer with Ashe's ult... and Ashe also has range, more damage potential, more CC, and less squishiness.

Basically, I kind of think Mal would be better off retooled into a support DPS like Morgona, with good defensive stats and maybe a bit more CC added (slow on his DoT?). He just doesn't have the burstiness required to be a nuker, but he has the stats of one, which isn't that great in this game.

I actually did notice times when I'd catch people alone, do the whole W + R + Deathfire + Ignite + Q and or E when ult is done combo and had enemies just kill me. : \ It's not good against anyone who isn't srsly squishy.

Milskidasith
2010-06-20, 03:38 PM
He's also a decent answer to tanks, due to doing more damage against enemies with more HP. Really though, it's his lack of cc that does him in as a truly legitimate option. Cleanse just wrecks him though.

It's not bad, especially when you get a lot of AP (120 for the example I'm giving) and can deal 10% of their HP every second over time... but magic resist/armor does more than flat HP and is more commonly on items that give good stats anyway. With a normal tanks magic resist, assuming they only have 100, you're only going to deal 5% of their HP per second, which isn't an amazing amount.

Thrawn183
2010-06-20, 03:41 PM
If we do another sunfire spam game, I refuse to play Cho. He has no synergy with the armor and his ult already gives him extra HP. I'll play Malphite or Blitz or somebody, but that last game... I'm not putting myself through that again.

Faulty
2010-06-20, 03:42 PM
Sunfire Cape stacking FIDDLESTICKS.

Astrella
2010-06-20, 03:43 PM
Aye, well we need a good mix of tanky heroes to make it work.

Hmmm, would a lineup like this work for sunfire spam? Mord, Nassus, Singed, Gragas and Rammus?

(Edit: Malphite fits in well as well.)

Edit2: About Mal: it's try he's a bit iffy at the moment. I like playing him a lot though, so that's what I'm gonna continue doing.
(Bit of a pity that my two best champs at the moment (Janna / Soraka) are going to be banned rather often in ranked...)

Faulty
2010-06-20, 03:46 PM
Shen? His taunt let's him catch up to people and make them attack him.

I quite enjoy Mal myself. I still think he's meh though. :smalltongue:

Astrella
2010-06-20, 03:50 PM
Perhaps, but I mostly play champs I enjoy.

(Same reason I started Janna, though she wasn't really underpowered but rather under-appreciated before her buffs/ people starting to use her.)

Thrawn183
2010-06-20, 03:52 PM
The real key is to have 3 that can hold a lane well like Mordekaiser and Nasus. Cho' can only do that with an AP build. Rammus, of course, has great synergy with armor. So you just need two more tanks, one of which can hold a lane well. I don't know where Blitzcrank or Singed would fit into this.

Faulty
2010-06-20, 04:02 PM
Perhaps, but I mostly play champs I enjoy.

(Same reason I started Janna, though she wasn't really underpowered but rather under-appreciated before her buffs/ people starting to use her.)

I understand. Just half the time I'm in a mood where, if I lose badly, I rage. I also hate playing with SHACOS and EVELYNS.

In MMOs I always played the most underpowered classes because I liked them and then made them own, so I can relate. I'm sure you could figure out a way with Mal to make him pwn.