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Drolyt
2010-01-22, 02:32 PM
Final Edit: This idea didn't work very well. I've got a much simpler way of doing things that I'll post later.
Edit: As pointed out in the replies I really need help coming up with Talents that aren't ripoffs of other class' class abilities.
Okay, here is my take on the Fighter. Yeah I know it's been done before, and quite well, but I wouldn't post this if I didn't at least think my way was better. Note that this pretty much makes half the classes in the PHB obsolete. Don't be afraid to tell me what you think even if you don't like it (perhaps especially if you don't like it :smallamused:). I could also use help thinking up Combat Styles, Talents, and Capstones. Especially Capstones. Better words for Talent and Capstone wouldn't be bad either. Note that I actually have several more Talent and Combat Style ideas, I just haven't listed them all yet.
Fighter
Alignment: Any
Hit Die: d12.

Class Skills: The fighterís class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Ride (Dex), Swim (Str), and Use Magic Device (Cha)

Skill Points at 1st Level: (2 + Int modifier) ◊4.

Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 2 + Int modifier.

Fighter
{table=head]Level|Base Attack<br>Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+1|
+2|
+0|
+0|Combat Style, Talent

2nd|
+2|
+3|
+0|
+0|Talent

3rd|
+3|
+3|
+1|
+1|Talent

4th|
+4|
+4|
+1|
+1|Talent

5th|
+5|
+4|
+1|
+1|Talent

6th|
+6/+1|
+5|
+2|
+2|Talent

7th|
+7/+2|
+5|
+2|
+2|Talent

8th|
+8/+3|
+6|
+2|
+2|Talent

9th|
+9/+4|
+6|
+3|
+3|Talent

10th|
+10/+5|
+7|
+3|
+3|Talent
11th|
+11/+6/+1|
+7|
+3|
+3|Talent

12th|
+12/+7/+2|
+8|
+4|
+4|Talent

13th|
+13/+8/+3|
+8|
+4|
+4|Talent

14th|
+14/+9/+4|
+9|
+4|
+4|Talent

15th|
+15/+10/+5|
+9|
+5|
+5|Talent

16th|
+16/+11/+6/+1|
+10|
+5|
+5|Talent

17th|
+17/+12/+7/+2|
+10|
+5|
+5|Talent

18th|
+18/+13/+8/+3|
+11|
+6|
+6|Talent

19th|
+19/+14/+9/+4|
+11|
+6|
+6|Talent

20th|
+20/+15/+10/+5|
+12|
+6|
+6|Capstone[/table]

Class Features:

All of the following are class features of the fighter.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A fighter is proficient with all simple and martial weapons and with all armor (heavy, medium, and light) and shields (including tower shields).

Combat Style: At first level a Fighter chooses one of the following combat styles to augment his abilities:

BareFistedMonk: You gain proficiency with Unarmed Strikes. Your Unarmed Strikes deal damage as if you were a Monk of your Fighter Level. You gain Ki Strike (Magic) at 1st level, Ki Strike (your alignment) at 10th level, and Ki Strike (Adamantine) at 16th level. You are treated as a Monk for purposes of the Stunning Strike feat. You gain the following bonus feats at the given levels, even if you do not meet the prerequisites: 1st Improved Unarmed Strike, 2nd Improved Grapple, 4th Deflect Arrows, 6th Snatch Arrows, and 8th Stunning Strike.

Skillmonkey: You are more Dexterous and posses more noncombat skills than a typical Fighter. You gain (6 + Int Modifier) Skill Points at 1st level and 6 + Int Modifier Skill Points every level thereafter. Add the following skills to your Class Skill List: Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Diplomacy (Cha), Disguise (Cha), Gather Information (Cha), Hide (Dex), Knowledge (All Skills, Taken Individually) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Tumble (Dex). You have Good Reflex Saves (use the Rogue's progression for Reflex saves). You gain Weapon Finesse as a bonus feat at 1st level. You lose proficiency with Medium and Heavy Armor and with Shields.

StraightArrow: You gain the following feats at the given levels, even if you do not meet the prerequisites: 1st Point Blank Shot, 2nd Rapid Shot, 3rd Far Shot, 4th Shot on the Run, 5th Precise Shot, 6th Manyshot, 11th Improved Precise Shot

Twinblade: You are skilled at fighting with one weapon in each hand. You reduce your penalty when fighting with two weapons by 2; this stacks with the effects of Two-Weapon Fighting. You also gain the following bonus feats at the given levels, even if you do not meet the prerequisites: 1st Two Weapon Fighting, 6th Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, 11th Greater Two-Weapon Fighting.

Talents: At 1st level and every level thereafter except 20th, a Fighter gains one of the Fighter Talents detailed below. A Fighter may choose to gain a Fighter Bonus Feat instead of a Talent if he chooses. Each Talent may only be taken once unless noted otherwise.

Arterial Strike (Ex): You attempt to cause a wound that bleeds excessively and is difficult to heal. As a full-round action you make a single melee attack against the target. If it hits they must make a Fortitude save (DC 10 +1/2 Fighter Level + Dexterity Modifier) or suffer this bleeding effect. They take one point of damage each round. After 1 minute (10 rounds) they become unconscious from blood loss. After 2 minutes (20 rounds) they are reduced to -1 hit points and are dying. Regeneration closes the wound and prevents any damage before it can occur. Fast healing heals the damage but does not prevent the blood loss, so they still pass out after 1 minute, and they die after 3 minutes (30 rounds). This effect can be removed by Greater Restoration, Heal, Lesser Restoration, Mass Heal, Miracle, Restoration, or Wish. You cannot use this attack on any creature that is immune to Sneak Attacks. Prerequisite: Crippling Strike, Disabling Strike, Fighter Level 11th

Climb (Su): You may gain the benefits of the Spider Climb Spell for 10 minutes/Fighter level each day. These minutes need not be consecutive. Activating or deactivating this ability is a free action. Prerequisites: Fighter Level 4th.

Crippling Strike (Ex): You make a single melee attack as a full round action. If you hit the opponent must make a Fortitude Save or suffer the effects of the Slow spell. Haste spells have no effect on a creature affected by this effect. This effect is cured by even 1 point of magical healing. You cannot use this effect on any creature that is immune to sneak attacks. Prerequisites: Fighter Level 5th.

Damage Reduction (Ex) You gain Damage Reduction 1/-. You may select this Talent more than once, no more than 5 times. It's effects stack (i.e. taking this Talent twice would give you Damage Reduction 2/-). Prerequisites: Fighter Level 10th.

Disabling Strike (Ex): As a full round action you attempt to disable your opponent with an attack. You make a single melee attack against the target. If it hits the target must make a Fortitude Save (DC 10 + 1/2 Fighter Level + Dexterity Modifier) or suffer a -1 to all rolls and to AC until they receive at least 1 point of magical healing. You cannot use this effect on any creature that is immune to sneak attacks. Prerequisites: Fighter Level 1st.

Evasion (Ex): You can avoid even magical and unusual attacks with great agility. If you make a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, you instead take no damage. Evasion can be used only if you are wearing light armor or no armor. You does not gain the benefit of evasion if you are helpless. Prerequisites: Fighter Level 2nd.

Fast Movement (Ex): Your land speed is faster than the norm for your race by +10 feet. This benefit applies only when you are wearing no armor, light armor, or medium armor and not carrying a heavy load. Apply this bonus before modifying the your speed because of any load carried or armor worn. Prerequisites: None

Favored Enemy (Ex): You may select a type of creature from among those given on Table: Ranger Favored Enemies. You gain a +2 bonus on Bluff, Listen, Sense Motive, Spot, and Survival checks when using these skills against creatures of this type. Likewise, you get a +2 bonus on weapon damage rolls against such creatures. At 5th level and every five levels thereafter (10th, 15th, and 20th level), you may select an additional favored enemy from those given on the table. In addition, at each such interval, the bonus against any one favored enemy (including the one just selected, if so desired) increases by 2. If you choose humanoids or outsiders as a favored enemy, you must also choose an associated subtype, as indicated on the table. If a specific creature falls into more than one category of favored enemy, your bonuses do not stack; you simply uses whichever bonus is higher. Prerequisites: None

Fly (Su): You may gain the benefits of the Fly spell for 1 minute/Fighter level each day. You need not use these minutes consecutively. Activating or deactivating this ability is a free action. Prerequisites: Fighter Level 6th.

Freedom of Movement (Su): You may gain the benefits of the Freedom of Movement Spell for 10 minutes/Fighter level each day. You need not use these minutes consecutively. Activating or deactivating this ability is a free action. Prerequisites: Fighter Level 8th.

Greater Rage (Ex): Your bonuses to Strength and Constitution during your rage each increase to +6, and your morale bonus on Will saves increases to +3. The penalty to AC remains at -2. Prerequisites: Fighter Level 11th, Rage

Haste (Su): You may gain the benefits of the Haste spell for 1 round/Fighter level each day. You need not use these rounds consecutively. Activating or deactivating this ability is a free action. Prerequisites: Fighter Level 6th

Improved Evasion (Ex): This ability works like evasion, except that while you still take no damage on a successful Reflex saving throw against attacks henceforth you take only half damage on a failed save. You doe not gain the benefit of improved evasion if you are helpless. Prerequisites: Fighter Level 9th, Evasion

Improved Uncanny Dodge (Ex): You can no longer be flanked. This defense denies a rogue the ability to sneak attack you by flanking you, unless the attacker has at least four more rogue levels than you have Fighter levels. Prerequisites: Fighter Level 5th, Uncanny Dodge

Indomitable Will (Ex) You gain a +4 bonus on Will saves to resist enchantment spells. This bonus stacks with all other modifiers. Prerequisite: Fighter Level 14th.

Mighty Rage (Ex): Your bonuses to Strength and Constitution during his rage each increase to +8, and your morale bonus on Will saves increases to +4. The penalty to AC remains at -2. Prerequisites: Fighter Level 20th, Greater Rage

Mastery of Movement (Su): The Climb, Fly, Freedom of Movement, Haste, and Water Walk Talents no longer have a use limit for you. Prerequisites: Fighter Level 16th.

Rage (Ex) You fly into a rage a certain number of times per day. In a rage, you temporarily gains a +4 bonus to Strength, a +4 bonus to Constitution, and a +2 morale bonus on Will saves, but he takes a -2 penalty to Armor Class. The increase in Constitution increases your hit points by 2 points per level, but these hit points go away at the end of the rage when your Constitution score drops back to normal. (These extra hit points are not lost first the way temporary hit points are.) While raging, you cannot use any Charisma-, Dexterity-, or Intelligence-based skills (except for Balance, Escape Artist, Intimidate, and Ride), the Concentration skill, or any abilities that require patience or concentration, nor can he cast spells or activate magic items that require a command word, a spell trigger (such as a wand), or spell completion (such as a scroll) to function. You can use any feat he has except Combat Expertise, item creation feats, and metamagic feats. A fit of rage lasts for a number of rounds equal to 3 + your (newly improved) Constitution modifier. You may prematurely end your rage. At the end of the rage, you loses the rage modifiers and restrictions and becomes fatigued (-2 penalty to Strength, -2 penalty to Dexterity, canít charge or run) for the duration of the current encounter. You can fly into a rage only once per encounter. At 1st level you can use his rage ability once per day. At 4th level and every four levels thereafter, you can use it one additional time per day (to a maximum of six times per day at 20th level). Entering a rage takes no time itself, but you can do it only during his action, not in response to someone elseís action. Prerequisites: Any Nonlawful.

Slippery Mind (Ex): This ability represents your ability to wriggle free from magical effects that would otherwise control or compel you. If you are affected by an enchantment spell or effect and fail your saving throw, you can attempt it again 1 round later at the same DC. You get only this one extra chance to succeed on your saving throw. Prerequisites: Fighter Level 10th.

Smite Evil (Su): Once per day, you may attempt to smite evil with one normal melee attack. You add your Charisma bonus (if any) to your attack roll and deal 1 extra point of damage per Fighter level. If you accidentally smite a creature that is not evil, the smite has no effect, but the ability is still used up for that day. At 5th level, and at every five levels thereafter, you may smite evil one additional time per day. Prerequisite: Good.

Smite Chaos/Good/Law (Su): As Smite Evil, but affects Chaotic/Good/Lawful opponents as appropriate. Prerequisite: Lawful/Evil/Chaotic, as Appropriate.

Spell-Like Ability: You gain a spell-like ability usable 1/day. The Spell-Like Ability can be based on any spell in the Player's Handbook, up to a maximum spell level of one-half your Fighter level, round down, minimum 0th, maximum 9th. Your Caster Level is equal to your Fighter Level. You must provide any XP components required by the spell and any material or focus components costing more than 1 GP. You may select this ability more than once. It's effects do not stack. Each time you select this ability you must select a different Spell-Like Ability. Prerequisites: None.

Tireless Rage (Ex): You no longer becomes fatigued at the end of your rage. Prerequisite: Fighter Level 17th, Rage

Uncanny Dodge (Ex): You can react to danger before your senses would normally allow you to do so. You retain your Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) even if you are caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. However, you still lose your Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized. Prerequisites: Fighter Level 2nd

Unarmored (Ex): You are skilled at fighting without wearing armor. You gain a bonus to your AC when unarmored equal to your Wisdom bonus, if any. At 5th level and every 5 levels thereafter you add an additional +1 bonus to your armor class. The bonuses from this ability do not stack with those from the Monk class. Prerequisites: None.

Trap Sense (Ex): You gain a bonus on Reflex saves made to avoid traps and a dodge bonus to AC against attacks made by traps equal to your Fighter Level divided by 3. Trap sense bonuses gained from multiple classes stack. Prerequisites: Fighter Level 3rd.

Water Breathing (Su): As the spell, continuously active. Prerequisite: Fighter level 3rd.

Water Walk (Su): You may gain the benefits of the Water Walk Spell for 10 Minutes/Fighter level each day. Your use of these minutes need not be continuous. Activating or deactivating this ability is a free action. Prerequisite: Fighter Level 6th


Capstone: Any ideas?

Finally, a couple of related feats:

Extra Combat Style [General]
You are trained in multiple combat styles.
Prerequisites: Fighter Level 1st
Benefits: You gain the benefits of an additional Fighter Combat Style.
Normal: A 1st level Fighter gains one Combat Style
Special: This feat is considered a Fighter Bonus Feat. You may only take this feat at 1st level.
Extra Talent [General]
Needs a good description.
Benefits: You gain a Fighter Talent. You must meet all prerequisites for that talent.
Special: This feat is considered a Fighter Bonus Feat.

Drolyt
2010-01-22, 02:33 PM
Reserved for possible future use.

Temotei
2010-01-22, 03:51 PM
Interesting take. Is this for your homebrew system, or is this a standalone take on the fighter (I refuse to call it a fix)?

As you [should] know, spell-like ability could easily be abused once you get into the higher-level spells.

As you [probably] know, this class basically replaces the fighter, barbarian, ranger, and monk in the PHB. The rogue also gets his/her toes stepped on as well. Just be aware. The paladin is okay with this because he/she still gets divine grace, lay on hands, special mount, etc.

Extra Talent could be abused with the multiclass fighter. Using it, you use your character level instead of fighter level, which means you can take things that wouldn't be available until you were a fighter 16 (for example), even though you're a warblade 15/fighter 1. The title is also misleading--you can take the feat even if you don't have levels in this class.

Rithaniel
2010-01-22, 04:05 PM
Okay, you have a lot of stuff here, but, the only advice I can offer to you right now, is tighten up the list. You're all over the place, and most abilities are just copy/pastes from other classes, that allow you to be all of them at the same time, with more on top. I'd offer the advice that you should come up with a load of unique talents (like, when you are flanking a foe with an ally, you deal double damage vs. that foe), and cut out the subpar ones. As for the SLA's, I'd say make em be at will, and restrict the level a bit more, or give a prescribed list, if you want the guy to be able to use this SLA with competence without having to rely soley on it (True Seeing at will isn't over the top, after all, I mean, look at the Marut).

Do something like that, then we'll see about the capstones.

Drolyt
2010-01-22, 04:18 PM
Interesting take. Is this for your homebrew system, or is this a standalone take on the fighter (I refuse to call it a fix)?

As you [should] know, spell-like ability could easily be abused once you get into the higher-level spells.

As you [probably] know, this class basically replaces the fighter, barbarian, ranger, and monk in the PHB. The rogue also gets his/her toes stepped on as well. Just be aware. The paladin is okay with this because he/she still gets divine grace, lay on hands, special mount, etc.

Extra Talent could be abused with the multiclass fighter. Using it, you use your character level instead of fighter level, which means you can take things that wouldn't be available until you were a fighter 16 (for example), even though you're a warblade 15/fighter 1. The title is also misleading--you can take the feat even if you don't have levels in this class.

Question 1: It can be used as a standalone, but it is kinda what I was thinking for my system. Either this or stick with bonus feats but make almost all class features bonus feats.
Point 1: Yeah it can be abused, but then again you could just make a Wizard. So I don't see a problem, most uses of that talent should be fine.
Point 2: Well all those classes are underpowered. This should (I think) put the Fighter on an even level with ToB classes. I will beef Paladin and Rogue in the future, though I am not sure what to do with Barbarian, Ranger, or Monk.
Point 3: Uh, how is that abuse, that's how it was designed. Though I suppose it might be very powerful for a ToB class. Maybe I should make it so that without Fighter levels you are always treated as a 1st level Fighter for purposes of the feat? Or make it Fighter Restricted? Or get rid of it?

Okay, you have a lot of stuff here, but, the only advice I can offer to you right now, is tighten up the list. You're all over the place, and most abilities are just copy/pastes from other classes, that allow you to be all of them at the same time, with more on top. I'd offer the advice that you should come up with a load of unique talents (like, when you are flanking a foe with an ally, you deal double damage vs. that foe), and cut out the subpar ones. As for the SLA's, I'd say make em be at will, and restrict the level a bit more, or give a prescribed list, if you want the guy to be able to use this SLA with competence without having to rely soley on it (True Seeing at will isn't over the top, after all, I mean, look at the Marut).

Do something like that, then we'll see about the capstones.
Well... I'm working on more unique abilities, and I'll think about what to do with the SLAs.

Drolyt
2010-01-22, 04:58 PM
I added a couple more abilities.

Temotei
2010-01-22, 05:05 PM
Yeah. This reminds me of a factotum, except this is way more complicated. :smallbiggrin:

Drolyt
2010-01-22, 05:18 PM
Yeah. This reminds me of a factotum, except this is way more complicated. :smallbiggrin:

How so? Because you can gain class abilities from other classes? Really I meant the Talents to be just like feats, except Fighter specific. I don't see how it's any more complicated that the regular Fighter, except you take 19 talents, 1 Combat Style, and 1 Capstone, instead of 11 poorly designed feats.