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dspeyer
2010-01-25, 12:05 AM
Wee Jas is not the only deity to appreciate the Sublime Path. Here are variants for all the core deities and a few less-known ones who fit well. Each variant has a different name, different signature school, and different 5th level special ability. The hide skill is replaced in both the prerequisites and the class skill list with the key skill for the new signature school. Devoted Spirit, Stone Dragon, White Raven and the other special abilities remain available.

For example, a Cleric of Kord with 2 devoted spirit maneuvers and 4 ranks in escape artist, 4 in intimidate and 8 in knowledge(religion) could become a Sublime Brawling Vindicator, learn Devoted Spirit, Monkey's Paw, Stone Dragon and White Raven maneuvers, and gain powerful build at 5th level.

I tried to balance stronger disciplines with weaker abilities and vice versa and to make the battle-happy gods a little stronger while keeping everything flavourful, but it's hard to judge power. I hope I did well.

{table]Name|AL|Name|School|Ability
Kord|CG|Sublime Brawling|Monkey's Paw|Treat yourself as one size category larger than you are when it is beneficial to do so (e.g. weapons, grappling). This stacks with actual size changes but not powerful build.
Trithereon|CG|Needed Rebel|Army of One|Immunity to all hostile compulsions, fear effects and moral effects
Corellan|CG|Dancing Guard|Scarlet Rose|Channel spell 3/day
Garl Glittergold|CG|Fortuitous Scoundrel|Coin's Edge|Gain a +20 luck bonus on one skill check a day
Yondalla|CN|Enduring Warden|Dancing Leaf|As an immediate action, you may cause a willing ally within 30 ft to execute a counter you have readied (and granted if relevant). This also counts as the ally's immediate/swift action for the round. The maneuver is expended. Once you use this, you cannot use it again until you have rested for 5 minutes.
Olidammara|CN|Wise Fool|Oncoming Storm*|As a swift action, make sleight of hand check opposed by enemy's spot -- on success, enemy is flat footed against next attack
Procon|CN|Crashing Wave|Ocean Soul|You are unaffected by inclement weather
Erythnul|CE|Blood Encrusted|Infinite Torment|Whenever you kill a living creature with at least one hit die, you heal 1hp for each hit die it had
Gruumsh|CE|Conquering Warlord|Broken Blade|For one round a day, you may add your initiator level to your strength score as a profane bonus
Lolth | CE | Spinning Web | Chthonic Serpent | Gain a special 5th level Boost, Tainted Web, which may be readied and used as normal. This Boost does not count as any Discipline. As a Swift action, create and apply a poison (1d3 Str damage primary, 1 Str damage secondary, Fort save DC 15 + your Wis modifier) which is used against the next target you attempt a grapple check against while using the coated weapon. If the target fails his save against the primary damage, he applies this damage before rolling his own Grapple check.
Ehlonna|NG|Growing Leaf|Gentle Breeze|Animal Companion (as druid 1/3 of initiator level)
Pelor|NG|Burning Light|Desert Wind|Raise Dead 1/day as sla (no material components)
Boccob|N|Dread Scholar|Untamed Essence|Bardic Knowledge (uses initiator level)
Fharlanghn|N|Far Wandering|Setting Sun|Teleport at will
Obad-Hai|N|Wild Lands|Tiger Claw|Hide in plain sight in natural terrain
Mak Thuum Ngatha|N|Incarnate Madness|Far Realm|+2 to all saves you roll and all save DCs inflict you regarding confusion or insanity
Zuoken|N|Polished Blade|Diamond Mind|Proficiency with all Exotic Weapons
Nerull|NE|Death Lord|Narrow Bridge|Summon 6hd of zombies or skeletons as standard action sla 3/day
Vecna|NE|Lost Whisper|Dread Crown|Immunity to all mind reading (including detect evil, detect thought, discern lies, etc.)
Heironeous|LG|Bright Champion|Iron Heart|Divine Grace
Rao|LG|Serene Hero|Knowing Heart|Add Wis to all saves
Bahamut|LG|Standing Claw|Golden Saint|Pick a breath weapon you do not already have from a metallic dragon, use it once per day. Damage and save for a dragon with hit dice equal to your initiator level.
Moradin|LG|Steadfast Stone|Steel Mountain|When using a warhammer and a shield, you may treat the warhammer as two-handed
Murlynd|LG|Holy Six-Shooting|Black Rain**|Conjure 6 units of ammunition for the ranged weapon you are holding as a standard action at will
Wee Jas|LN|Ruby Knight|Shadow Hand|Armored Stealth
St. Cuthbert|LN|Eternal Retribution|Quicksilver Aegis|Karmic Strike
Hextor|LE|Dark Overlord|Ninefold Damnation|Summon 6hd of devils as standard action sla 3/day
Tiamat|LE|Stretching Bite|Rending Scream|Pick a breath weapon you do not already have from a chromatic dragon, use it once per day. Damage and save for a dragon with hit dice equal to your initiator level.[/table]

* In sillier campaigns, Wise Fool Vindicators use Falling Anvil, and their special ability is just feint as a swift action.
** Campaigns without firearms are advised to omit Murlynd altogether, as he is likely to invent them. If that isn't an option, substitute True Arrow and use truly magnificent crossbows.

JoshuaZ
2010-01-25, 12:17 AM
This is interesting. May I suggest that post a note to the Age of Warriors theads about this? This mght reasonably fit in as a useful addition to that.

dspeyer
2010-01-25, 12:28 AM
I am very much aware of that thread. I figured I'd give the forum a crack at finding flaws in this before I submitted it there.

Agrippa
2010-01-25, 12:34 AM
How about Myrlund (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murlynd#Murlynd)?

JoshuaZ
2010-01-25, 12:52 AM
Why is Zuoken getting Exotic Weapon Proficiency? And is that for a specific weapon? It seems a bit odd. I would have thought something psionic related or monk related, like getting to deal unarmed damage like a monk.

Also, if I can make a suggestion for another one: Mak Thuum Ngatha should have the associated discipline be Far Realm. But I'm not sure what ability would be thematically appropriate.

dspeyer
2010-01-25, 01:05 AM
Why is Zuoken getting Exotic Weapon Proficiency? And is that for a specific weapon? It seems a bit odd. I would have thought something psionic related or monk related, like getting to deal unarmed damage like a monk.

He's the god of monks, and monks use weird weapons. Even his favoured weapon (nunchaku) is exotic. The ability to pick up a psuedonatural gnomish triple hooked hammer (yes, I made that up) and know what to do with it seems very thematic. It isn't very powerful, but Diamond Mind is.

I hadn't heard of either of those deities, how's this:

{table]Deity|AL|Name|School|Ability
Mak Thuum Ngatha|N|Incarnate Madness|Far Realm|+2 to all saves you roll and all save DCs inflict you regarding confusion or insanity
Myrlund|LG|Holy Six-Shooting|Black Rain*|Conjure 6 units of ammunition for the ranged weapon you are holding as a standard action at will
[/table]

* In campaigns without firearms, substitute True Arrow

DracoDei
2010-01-25, 01:09 AM
Never heard of Zuoken before, but if he favors Monks, then one reasonable hypothesis is that they get the exotic weapon proficiencies for all the exotic monk weapons (Sai, Siangham, Nunchaku, kama).

As for Mak Thuum Ngatha (who I also hadn't heard of), let me throw out a few ideas at random:
Confusion as an SLA 1/day, but with the DC scaling as 10 + 1/2 IL + (Ability Score), rather than being fixed.
As above, but a strike rather than a ranged ability
Lose 2 points from all mental ability scores, but DCs for all Far Realms maneuvers increase by 3 (or more).

JoshuaZ
2010-01-25, 01:16 AM
Never heard of Zuoken before, but if he favors Monks, then one reasonable hypothesis is that they get the exotic weapon proficiencies for all the exotic monk weapons (Sai, Siangham, Nunchaku, kama).[QUOTE]

That seems to make sense. (Zuoken incidentally is a god of monks and psionics. Originally in the Greyhawk setting but also appears in some other settings. The SRD "Psionic Fist" monk/psion hybrid is actually the "Fist of Zuoken" from Expanded Psionics with the flavor stripped off.

[QUOTE]
As for Mak Thuum Ngatha (who I also hadn't heard of)

Destroyer of barriers. In Lords of Madness and shows up elsewhere. Is a god of far realm and aberrations related stuff.




Confusion as an SLA 1/day, but with the DC scaling as 10 + 1/2 IL + (Ability Score), rather than being fixed.
As above, but a strike rather than a ranged ability
Lose 2 points from all mental ability scores, but DCs for all Far Realms maneuvers increase by 3 (or more).

Hmm, all of those sound good. I like the last one particularly well since it fits in the flavor so well.

Agrippa
2010-01-25, 01:19 AM
He's the god of monks, and monks use weird weapons. Even his favoured weapon (nunchaku) is exotic. The ability to pick up a psuedonatural gnomish triple hooked hammer (yes, I made that up) and know what to do with it seems very thematic. It isn't very powerful, but Diamond Mind is.

I hadn't heard of either of those deities, how's this:

{table]Deity|AL|Name|School|Ability
Mak Thuum Ngatha|N|Incarnate Madness|Far Realm|+2 to all saves you roll and all save DCs inflict you regarding confusion or insanity
Myrlund|LG|Volatile Mind|Black Rain*|Conjure 6 units of ammunition for the ranged weapon you are holding as a standard action at will
[/table]

* In campaigns without firearms, substitute True Arrow

I perfer the term "Holy Six-Shooting" for Myrlund.

dspeyer
2010-01-25, 01:34 AM
I perfer the term "Holy Six-Shooting" for Myrlund.

"Holy Six-Shooting Vindicator" does have a nice ring to it. Thanks.

dspeyer
2010-01-25, 01:40 AM
I just realized I left out the racial deities! Oops. Here are some:

{table]Name|AL|Name|School|Ability
Bahamut|LG|Standing Claw|Golden Saint|Pick a breath weapon you do not already have from a metallic dragon, use it once per day. Damage and save for a dragon with hit dice equal to your initiator level.
Tiamat|LE|Stretching Bite|Rending Scream|Pick a breath weapon you do not already have from a chromatic dragon, use it once per day. Damage and save for a dragon with hit dice equal to your initiator level.
Moradin|LG|Steadfast Stone|Steel Mountain|When using a warhammer and a shield, you may treat the warhammer as two-handed
Corellan|CG|Dancing Guard|Scarlet Rose|Channel spell 3/day
Yondalla|CN|Enduring Warden|Dancing Leaf|As an immediate action, you may cause a willing ally within 30 ft to execute a counter you have readied (and granted if relevant). This also counts as the ally's immediate/swift action for the round. The maneuver is expended. Once you use this, you cannot use it again until you have rested for 5 minutes.
Gruumsh|CE|Conquering Warlord|Broken Blade|For one round a day, you may add your initiator level to your strength score as a profane bonus
Garl Glittergold|CG|Fortuitous Scoundrel|Coin's Edge|Gain a +20 luck bonus on one skill check a day[/table]

DracoDei
2010-01-25, 01:55 AM
Yondalla's PROBABLY needs to specify that the target ally has to use the usual action for the counter... but not necessarily.

dspeyer
2010-01-25, 01:59 AM
Yondalla's PROBABLY needs to specify that the target ally has to use the usual action for the counter... but not necessarily.

I don't understand what you mean here.

DracoDei
2010-01-25, 02:20 AM
IE it costs the person who gets the benefit of the counter an immediate action AS WELL as costing your immediate action.

elliott20
2010-01-25, 02:23 AM
Yeah, I think this would be a good addition to the AoW project.

pyrefiend
2010-01-25, 06:37 AM
May I suggest Scarlet Bravura (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5569037) in place of Army of One for Trithereon?

DracoDei
2010-01-25, 10:37 AM
Here are some other options to throw in with Skeletons and Zombies (not the Skins, or the Bladders when I do them though... just the mindless stuff).
How to get a bunch of Undead out of one corpse:
Zooming Brain: Fly past on barely controlled course damaging all mental abilities for a brief duration.

Fat Glob: Slow, weak, but LOTS of HD, and a fatigue effect if it hits.

Rolling Eyeball (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6178899#post6178899): Scouts, spies, and roving patrols. Zero offensive capabilities unless taken from something with a gaze attack or eye-rays.

Floating Lungs: (based around the Shout spell). Feel free to suggest a better name...

Hopping Stomach (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3301315): Spits acid.

Gut Snake (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3295643&postcount=8): Undead intestines that fight with constriction, filth, and odor. Comment HERE (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26636&page=16).

Dark Hearts: Literally pulsing with negative energy these repair the undead near them, and damage the living.
(Skulking Bladders (with attached kidneys) probably coming next. But also have plans for crawling livers, and slithering spinal cords. )

Also, a belated thanks for taking the trouble to include Falling Anvil as an alternate.

dspeyer
2010-01-25, 11:17 AM
IE it costs the person who gets the benefit of the counter an immediate action AS WELL as costing your immediate action.

Ah, I get it. You're right. Done.

dspeyer
2010-01-25, 11:22 AM
May I suggest Scarlet Bravura (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5569037) in place of Army of One for Trithereon?

I don't see it. Clerics of Trithereon are often going to be alone. Giving them a fighting style that depends on having followers, or even allies, seems rather dubious.

I could see giving Heironious Scarlet Bravura, and angel-summoning as a cleaner contrast to Hextor, but I'd need to reshuffle a bunch of other things and I'm not sure it would work out. Plus, I don't want to imply that White Raven is the evil version, when many more core-oriented players will still be using it.

I suppose I could bring in Lirr for Scarlet Bravura. I wanted to include her from the beginning, and she has the whole perform(oratory) thing, but it's pretty weak.

dspeyer
2010-01-25, 11:23 AM
dracodei: While those undead look really cool, I think what I've offered is too flexible already.

dspeyer
2010-01-25, 10:22 PM
I've integrated all the additions into the original post.

DracoDei
2010-01-25, 10:58 PM
That was good to do... I was planning on suggesting it at one point, but forgot.

Sereg
2010-01-26, 12:44 AM
I'm glad that this has been done, but does this mean that sublime brawling vindicators get access to one fewer school than other vindicators (as ruby knight vindicators are listed as having access to stone dragon in ToB)

DracoDei
2010-01-26, 01:03 AM
I'm glad that this has been done, but does this mean that sublime brawling vindicators get access to one fewer school than other vindicators (as ruby knight vindicators are listed as having access to stone dragon in ToB)

Good point... anyone got a suggestion for a replacement? I don't think Kord's champions should get short-changed like that, but nothing comes to mind right off the bat... should be something that allows unarmed attacks and/or grappling.

Sereg
2010-01-26, 09:38 AM
Good point... anyone got a suggestion for a replacement? I don't think Kord's champions should get short-changed like that, but nothing comes to mind right off the bat... should be something that allows unarmed attacks and/or grappling.

Setting sun? I also think that the discipline currently on the first page (Perfect self) is supposed to be mainly unarmed. Fool's grip could also give the brawling feel.

DragoonWraith
2010-01-26, 10:48 AM
Chthonic Serpent, of course, has a number of grappling-related abilities, but they're not really wrestling, they're wrapping people up in chains. Sort of maybe Kord-like?

Actually, though...
{table=head]Deity | AL | Name | Discipline | Ability

Lolth | CE | Spinning Web | Chthonic Serpent | Gain a special 5th level Boost, Tainted Web, which may be readied and used as normal. This Boost does not count as any Discipline.[br][br]Tainted Web[br]As a Swift action, create and apply a poison (1d3 Str damage primary, 1 Str damage secondary, Fort save DC 15 + your Wis modifier) which is used against the next target you attempt a grapple check against while using the coated weapon. If the target fails his save against the primary damage, he applies this damage before rolling his own Grapple check.[/table]

dspeyer
2010-01-26, 12:24 PM
Expletive! Long string of expletives that are inappropriate for this forum!

Thank you for catching that, Sereg. Better now than later. I misremembered RKV as having just Devoted Spirit and Shadow Hand. Rechecking the book, it also has Stone Dragon and White Raven. Kord and Hextor need new disciplines.

I like an unarmed or grappling discipline for Kord. I don't see the Fool's Grip you mentioned, but I did find Monkey's Paw (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4885313). I don't know why that got omitted from Age of Warriors.

For Hextor, I don't see anything better than Ninefold Damnation. We can even keep the summoning power.

dspeyer
2010-01-26, 12:26 PM
{table=head]Deity | AL | Name | Discipline | Ability
Lolth | CE | Spinning Web | Chthonic Serpent | Gain a special Boost, Tainted Web, which may be readied and used as normal. This Boost does not count as any Discipline.<br><br>Tainted Web<br>As a Swift action, create and apply a poison (1d3 Str damage primary, 1 Str damage secondary, Fort save DC 15 + your Wis modifier) which is used against the next target you attempt a grapple check against while using the coated weapon. If the target fails his save against the primary damage, he applies this damage before rolling his own Grapple check.[/table]

I like it.

The one thing I might change is to make the DC 10 + initiator level + wis mod.

DragoonWraith
2010-01-26, 12:49 PM
Well, I chose 15 because it's supposed to count as a 5th level maneuver. Forgot to say that in the description, though.

By the way, due to the weirdness of breaks in tables, you'll have to change the angle brackets in the <br>'s to square brackets. Unfortunately, they'll revert to angle brackets every time you edit the post, so maybe it'd be better just to take them out. *shrug*

DracoDei
2010-01-26, 03:36 PM
Setting Sun is the wrong feel for Kord... it is thematically about using your enemy's strength against them. Kord is about being stronger than everyone. I agree that Fool's Grip (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67879) is better. And you see I found you the link. Granted "Tumble" as the associated skill MIGHT be argued to be less Kord-like than "Sense Motive" but I can see a follower of Kord practicing their Greco-Roman wrestling with someone who is trying to get there next rank of Escape Artist, and has no interest in actually trying to win in the usual sense, then accepting when the slippery fellow offers to teach them how to do a somersault in return. Not sure if that is better than whatever else was found however, but I think it does have the "brawling feel".

P.S. And the entry for Lloth is good to go in my opinion. Very good work. Just for flavor, you might say that if Net isn't on the list for Cthonic Serpent associated weapons they can add it... of course that might mean they can ANIMATE the net with their own strength, but that applies almost as much to using a spiked chain at the extreme end of its reach with the grappling maneuvers of that discipline.

DragoonWraith
2010-01-26, 04:58 PM
Ooh, that might be interesting, to treat the Net as a Chthonic Serpent weapon. It currently isn't, but...

arguskos
2010-01-26, 05:13 PM
Ooh, that might be interesting, to treat the Net as a Chthonic Serpent weapon. It currently isn't, but...
Wait, it's not? It would make so much sense! I mean, chain weapons work, but the Net makes a LOT of sense for a Grapple-based discipline like Chthonic Serpent.

ErrantX
2010-01-26, 06:11 PM
Here's some Eberron Vindicators:

{table=head]Deity | AL | Name | Discipline | Ability

The Dragon Below| NE | Black Cult | Far Realm | DR 5/byeshk
The Sovereign Host| NG | Shining Sovereign | Golden Saint | Divine Power 2/day SLA
The Dark Six| NE | Six Damned | Infinite Torment | Weapons wielded gain wounding special quality
The Blood of Vol| LE | Sanguine Knight| Narrow Bridge | Martial strikes heal initiator for 2 hp / level of maneuver used
The Silver Flame| LG | Argent Flame | Falling Star | Close Combat Archery - May use bows and crossbows in melee without provoking attacks of opportunity.
The Undying Court| NG | Light Blessed | Silver Crane | Grace of the Undying - Negative energy deals 1/2 damage, 25% fortification
The Path of Light| LN | Dream Scarred | Sleeping Goddess | Manifester class, psionic meditation required, psionic turn undead at 1st (see Minds Eye, Divine Mind ACF), Gain a Psionic Mantle of your choice.
The Dreaming Dark| NE | Nightmare Mind | Black Heron | Manifester class, psionic weapon required, psionic rebuke undead at 1st level (see Minds Eye, Divine Mind ACF), Mindfeeding weapons
The Path of Inspiration| LN | Cerebral Sword | Diamond Mind | Gain mind thrust as psi-like ability 1/day per 3 initiator levels.
The Spirits of the Past| N | Ancestral Hero | Iron Heart | Hero's Blade SLA 1/day at 9th level, no 5th level ability
[/table]

-X

DragoonWraith
2010-01-26, 06:58 PM
Wait, it's not? It would make so much sense! I mean, chain weapons work, but the Net makes a LOT of sense for a Grapple-based discipline like Chthonic Serpent.
It's not for the same reason that the Braid Blade, Spinning Sword, Whip-Dagger, Nun-chuks, and about half a dozen other weapons aren't - because the associated weapon list is already quite long, and I had to draw the line somewhere.

I really ought to include an optional rule for DMs, mentioning that unless you consider having a small associated weapons list to be a significant balancing factor, you should also consider <bleh> to be associated weapons, or work with players to determine the exact list from among these, or something.

*shrug*

arguskos
2010-01-26, 08:41 PM
It's not for the same reason that the Braid Blade, Spinning Sword, Whip-Dagger, Nun-chuks, and about half a dozen other weapons aren't - because the associated weapon list is already quite long, and I had to draw the line somewhere.

I really ought to include an optional rule for DMs, mentioning that unless you consider having a small associated weapons list to be a significant balancing factor, you should also consider <bleh> to be associated weapons, or work with players to determine the exact list from among these, or something.

*shrug*
Eh... whip-daggers are the only one on that list that make me go "hmm, that'd be a great fit". I still think nets are hardcore and need more love. Were I an avid ToB user and cared to brew up a discipline (never gonna happen), it would be net and lasso themed.

Sereg
2010-01-26, 10:27 PM
Thank you for catching that, Sereg.

I'm just glad that I was useful.

DragoonWraith
2010-01-26, 11:21 PM
Eh... whip-daggers are the only one on that list that make me go "hmm, that'd be a great fit". I still think nets are hardcore and need more love. Were I an avid ToB user and cared to brew up a discipline (never gonna happen), it would be net and lasso themed.
Lasso, that's another one.

Anyway, whip-daggers share proficiency and focus feats with whips, so I'd assume they simply count as whips for everything and that they'd therefore be on the list. That's how I'd rule it and how I'd expect DMs to rule it.

dspeyer
2010-01-27, 12:44 AM
Eh... whip-daggers are the only one on that list that make me go "hmm, that'd be a great fit". I still think nets are hardcore and need more love. Were I an avid ToB user and cared to brew up a discipline (never gonna happen), it would be net and lasso themed.

What sort of manuevers? Nets are one of Knowing Heart's key weapons, but I couldn't think of much to give them.

arguskos
2010-01-27, 12:59 AM
Lasso, that's another one.

Anyway, whip-daggers share proficiency and focus feats with whips, so I'd assume they simply count as whips for everything and that they'd therefore be on the list. That's how I'd rule it and how I'd expect DMs to rule it.
Technically, they do, since they share feats and whatnot. So, yeah, they would be. I wasn't sure if you ruled that way or not.

dspeyer: I have no idea. I just like nets/lassos. I really don't know ToB that well, since I don't use it and don't honestly like it all that much. I'm sure there's some neat controlling sorta things you could do with nets though.

JoshuaZ
2010-01-28, 08:54 PM
Here's another one:

{table=head]Deity | AL | Name | Discipline | Ability

Ilsenine| LE | Mind Eater | Sleeping Goddess | Gain a +2 bonus to bonus to saves for your psionic and psi-like abilities and on all Grapple checks that you initiate. Whenever you consume the brain of sentient being you may choose to gain one of three benefits: 1) get 1d6 temporary power points lasting 1 hour 2) have all your expended maneuvers refreshed 3) Choose 1 maneuver that was known to the being whose brain was consumed. You get this as an extra maneuver readied and may initiate it once. This maneuver fades after 1 hour.[/table]

Edit: Modified per DracoDei's remark.

DracoDei
2010-01-28, 10:42 PM
Well, given that I didn't know who Ilsenine was, and it is obviously a mind-flayer god, and everything about it plays to their strengths or ties those strengths into initiating (the option to refresh all maneuvers), I think it works well... maybe you should also let them strip any maneuver from the creature's brain and add it as a bonus prepared maneuver that may not be recovered and fades after 1 hour if not used? Or would that be too powerful? I have no idea. If you go that route, it should have to be limited to a maneuver that they meet the alignment (or not?) and IL (definitely) requirements for, but NOT the maneuvers known requirements.

JoshuaZ
2010-01-28, 10:51 PM
Well, given that I didn't know who Ilsenine was, and it is obviously a mind-flayer god, and everything about it plays to their strengths or ties those strengths into initiating (the option to refresh all maneuvers), I think it works well... maybe you should also let them strip any maneuver from the creature's brain and add it as a bonus prepared maneuver that may not be recovered and fades after 1 hour if not used? Or would that be too powerful? I have no idea. If you go that route, it should have to be limited to a maneuver that they meet the alignment (or not?) and IL (definitely) requirements for, but NOT the maneuvers known requirements.

That seems to be a good other option. Adding in.

Edit: Hmm, not sure of the exact wording. Also should that be an option in addition to the other two, along with, or replace the other two?

ErrantX
2010-01-28, 11:05 PM
No thoughts on the Eberron deities and their vindicators that I posted?

-X

JoshuaZ
2010-01-28, 11:06 PM
No thoughts on the Eberron deities and their vindicators that I posted?

-X

Look good to me. I'm not as familiar with Eberron so I can't comment on the fluff in detail but they look balanced.

alternaloser
2010-01-29, 12:48 AM
Not to nitpick but wouldn't Hextor (LE) summon Devils not Demons?

DracoDei
2010-01-29, 02:52 AM
That seems to be a good other option. Adding in.

Edit: Hmm, not sure of the exact wording. Also should that be an option in addition to the other two, along with, or replace the other two?

My implicit assumption was that it would go along with "Refresh all your maneuvers"... but now that you explicitly mention it, I am not sure. I think, since it doesn't come up unless the other person was a martial initiator, it MIGHT have to be a third option, just to keep it balanced so the power level doesn't vary as much between munching a wizard and a sword-sage... maybe make it TWO maneuvers if that would equalize the three options better...

JoshuaZ
2010-02-18, 10:16 PM
Ok. Modified as done. Dspeyer if that meets with your approval could you add Ilsenine into the list?

DracoDei
2010-02-20, 02:22 PM
Going to throw in my homebrew goddess of the hearth, whose tenants include the most gentle forms of eugenics for most races, and genocide of creatures of inborn evil. No idea if I balanced the Discipline against the special ability, but the special ability is the right SORT of thing, and I think Scarlet Bravura includes the right aspects of Mama Bear/Papa Wolf combined with the importance of community. I was surprised to discover nothing used Scarlet Bravura yet, so that is a plus. One thing to consider is that most of Allurehn's domains aren't really suitable for an adventurer*, so her adventuring clerics MAY be slightly gimped.
Details of Allurehn can be found in my Mepholk race, listed in my MAIN signature (as well as my extended).

{table=head]Deity | AL | Name | Discipline | Ability
Allurehn | NG | Hearthstone | Scarlet Bravura | You gain the Favored Enemy bonus of a 1st level ranger against any evil creature that for inborn (rather than cultural) reasons is "Always _____ Evil". You also gain the Favored Enemy bonus of a Ranger of your ECL (reselected at each opportunity) against Succubi, Incubi, Erinyes and similar creatures that (as a race) use sexuality with the intent of destroying (including by eating) creatures, and don't limit themselves to evil creatures. This second bonus scales with changes in your ECL.[/table]

So, what do people think?


*Midwivery/Fertility, Sex (yes, go right ahead and raid the BoEF, just keep it to stuff that Dr Ruth would have approved of), Mate Selection (Including the 9th level spell Create Heaven's Match), Healing (useful), and maybe Community(but I don't know what the community domain actually does).

dspeyer
2010-02-23, 01:04 AM
Eberron: Don't know it well enough to comment. I'd rather not move the 5th level ability to 9th, but maybe there's a good enough reason.

Ilsenine: Bit complicated, but sure. Assuming that all clerics of Ilsenine can eat brains (could a half-ilithid take become one? Do they eat brains?)

Hextor: Yes, I meant devils. I even checked the SRD for devil hit dice to make sure there were reasonable options. I'll go fix that.

Allurehn: While the class looks ok, I'm wary of including this in Age of Warriors, which probably shouldn't depend on whatever Allurehn is in.

dspeyer
2010-02-23, 02:09 AM
I also see I never resolved the Kord/Hextor problem.

How about Kord gets monkey's paw and powerful build, and Hextor gets Ninefold Damnation and keeps the devil summoning?

DracoDei
2010-02-23, 02:17 AM
Allurehn: While the class looks ok, I'm wary of including this in Age of Warriors, which probably shouldn't depend on whatever Allurehn is in.
Allurehn is my own invention, and thus it is perfectly reasonable not to get it involved in AoW proper*. I just happened to get inspired, and thought, "Hey, why not?". I have one other deity I have made up but he is a very odd figure, and I don't quite know how I would do him in regards to this. And I really should figure out his domains and such-like before I go creating auxiliary stuff like this.

*EDIT: Although actually it occurs to me that Allurehn is also the sort of low-profile goddess who could be dropped into any campaign, and have reasonably been there all along without disrupting the plot or the PCs have ever have had much dealings with her (well, unless maybe they get married during the course of the campaign).

DracoDei
2010-02-23, 11:21 AM
How about Kord gets monkey's paw and powerful build, and Hextor gets Ninefold Damnation and keeps the devil summoning?

This sounds good (not that I recall what the problem was to begin with precisely).

DracoDei
2010-02-26, 05:17 AM
Umm? You do realize that the class skill for Gruumsh's discipline is INTELLEGENCE based, right?

dspeyer
2010-02-26, 11:01 AM
Hadn't thought of that....

There are only a few Broken Blade maneuvers that actually call for Martial Lore checks, though. I don't think it's a huge problem.

JoshuaZ
2010-02-26, 12:04 PM
Hadn't thought of that....

There are only a few Broken Blade maneuvers that actually call for Martial Lore checks, though. I don't think it's a huge problem.

Maybe add to their fifth level ability the ability to substitute strength for their intelligence in martial lore checks? Orcs only have a -2 penalty to their intelligence score so it doesn't seem like that big an issue. Other than that people seem to have this terrible stereotyping of orcs.

DracoDei
2010-02-26, 05:22 PM
I knew it was only a minor issue at worst.
If Broken Blade is built the same way most disciplines are, then it is pretty hard to fail the checks anyway.
Let us proceed (I am considering trying to do a few more of the gods from Draconomicon).

dspeyer
2010-02-26, 10:22 PM
If Broken Blade is built the same way most disciplines are, then it is pretty hard to fail the checks anyway.
It is. Most of it's dc 10 + level of enemy's relevant maneuver -- pretty easy.

Ivanovich Redoc
2011-05-13, 08:18 PM
What about Tharizdun, God of Madness and Universal Annihilation.
Tharizdun doesn't get enough love...
Also, hadn't noticed until recently, but there are a lot of 'gods of madness'

Hazzardevil
2011-05-14, 10:25 AM
Why is everyone necrobumping homebrew today?