Relationship Woes and Advice - X (but not the factor)

[Syka]

If she does, tell people not to answer the door. Even if you can't be quiet, you don't have to answer. I'm being serious about that. I'd open the door enough to tell her to go away. If she still doesn't, tell her to go away or you're calling the cops. Then if she doesn't, call the cops.

[Koury]

Yeah. I just then have to worry about my car. I mean, she gets mad.

The odds of her doing something stupid like that are low, to be sure, but not low enough. Somewhere around, like 5%. And I know that I'VE rolled my fair share of 1s before.

I don't know. I just hope she doesn't come over and it doesn't even matter.

Thanks.

[Syka]

Well, if she resorts to vandalism, you have legal recourse. Especially if you've already called the cops on her for harrassment.

[TFT]

Hmm.

Well, I like this girl, and I'm pretty sure she likes me. There are 2 problems though. The first being that she is carrying a lot of baggage. I don't know if I can handle it(Basically, she hates society) The other problem is that she is a little bit goth. It kind of... not exactly scares me, but makes me nervous.

So yeah, I really don't know what to do at this point, because I really do like her, its just those two things that make me think, doubt the relationship would work. Partly because of her, but mostly because of me. So: What should I do from here.

[Umael]

Are you certain? What are the grounds for Truth not being able to co-exist with Good? Is it that the Truth is sometimes uncomfortable? Are all things that are Good always pleasant? Is it that the Truth contains knowledge of things that are wrong? What good then is Good if it cannot know and right the wrongs?

Mando (and anyone else): I responded to V with that notion to say that there are limited circumstances in which it is okay to lie. I further went on to say that relationships are not covered under those limited circumstances. Given that this thread is about relationships, asking for advice and giving advice, I (and several others) found V's advice to be unwise and wished to point that out.

It is not my intention to get involved in a philosophical debate in this thread. I will offer up this: if anyone wishes to discuss this further with me, you can PM me or create a thread for this purpose. I will also add that when I made my statement, I neglected to add that I was given my own philosophical viewpoint and that I will not claim my viewpoint is set in stone.

[reorith]

The Fiery Tower, just remember, fear is your bodies way of telling you that something scary is happening. that being said, go for it. so what if there might not be relationship potential. think about it this way. what would happen if you say set fire to the zone of alienation surrounding chernogyl? nothing because it was already a bleak wasteland and anything of value was already scavenged or poached before you turned to arson. so what if this girl has some issues? there is no additional damage you can bring to the table, so relax, have some fun and if it gets too crazy, buy a gun. i hope that helps.

yeah and what kind of issues? like basic trust issues? or beat me with a rod while i cry about my dad issues?

[Coidzor]

Never know till you try to get along with the little doggy. Not sure what to tell you about being from a different subculture other than that it probably isn't that big of a deal if she seems to like you in the slightest to begin with.

So yeah, go for it, The Fiery Tower. For Great Justice! :smallbiggrin:

[skywalker]

Random notes on the past three pages, lying in relationships, etc:


The more you lie, the harder you'll fall when the truth returns. A funny thing, truth. You might be able to wave it away with little more than a passing comment, but it does not die. It does not sleep. It waits. And when it stops waiting, those who waved it away cannot run, for they are trapped in the nets they have woven themselves.

On the other hand, it can be much easier to lie once you've done it once. Especially if you lie to a person, and then they expect future behavior to line up with it.

Also, you might believe something about yourself at some time, and then discover it to not be the case. To continue to keep up appearances can be much easier if you expect some situation to end the relationship within the relatively short term. High school relationships, I believe, qualify.

Not saying it's right, but it can be much easier than the truth.


...

What I learned about relationships today: Nothing is wrong with the relationship if you get what you want out of it; it doesn't matter what the other person gets out of it or even feels. Also, if you want a relationship but don't want to expend any effort on it, lying to make the other person feel what you want them to feel is a GREAT idea.

Wow. Just WOW.

What you have to be careful to realize is the grain of truth here: If you aren't getting what you want out of your relationship, something is wrong. In your distaste of one viewpoint, don't miss the folly of being 100% the other way.


In this case, V is simply treating his relationship like a capitalist society: if both partners are doing what's best for them, then the relationship will survive. Contrary is the traditional socialist approach: both partners working for the best of each other. History has shown that capitalism is superior, so why not think it would not hold up in a relationship?

There are two things wrong here. First, this is a gross misrepresentation of capitalism. Capitalism works best when all parties have perfect information (obviously not the case). Second, history has not shown anything of the sort. At best, history has shown that everything else that has been tried is inferior. Either way, history has no examples of pure capitalism or socialism. The comparison is moot.


I don't see a problem if it makes you happy. That is my goal, if another person chooses not to be happy then that's their fault.

We really have no idea what you lie to her about. It could be anything, really.


Methinks I smell something fishy.
Most people compartmentalizing don't realize that's what they're doing.

I've actually been taught to compartmentalize, specifically, so as to be able to complete a task properly and efficiently. But also to be able to access the emotions and reactions later, so as to not have them tear apart my soul.

Just saying, it can be (and is, it's not like I was taught something exceedingly rare) done.


Methinks I smell troll(s).

Skywalker would like to remind you of Da Rulez (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/announcement.php?a=1).


I have a question for you, V: Do you, in fact, actually care for this person as more than a source of your own gratification? Because nothing I've read here so far even suggests that.
The fact is, your behaviour is likely, even probable, to cause someone a great deal of hurt - someone, above question pending, you presumably "care" about - yet you do not give a flying fruitcake about that. All you care about is yourself, and your girlfriend appears to be nothing but a tool to that end. In my, and many other's, moralities, that makes you a Bad Person. In fact, isn't that part of sociopathy or something?

I'd like to posit a perspective: We're all accusing V of being selfish, but aren't we all in relationships for selfish reasons? It makes me happy to do selfless things. Well, if it makes me happy, it's not really selfless. If it makes you happy to be a good person, then it isn't really a selfless act.


*I noticed that she may like me before the family situation happened
*I really do lose something by waiting. I virtually only see her at the volleyball games, and Sat/Sun are the last home games of the season. If I don't ask her out then, it comes down to doing it via Facebook or if I happen to randomly run into her in the hall at school and we end up having a conversation.

GO FOR IT!


I do know people who'd rather live 'not knowing' than know the truth, but not everyone feels that way.

My ex-GF and I, we were pretty close as I said. I trusted her completely and she trusted me completely. She's pretty darn well committed to being completely truthful. One night, I made out with our mutual best friend (a girl, if that's not clear). I immediately told her the next day. She was crushed, but I wasn't about to break her trust again by keeping it from her.

She recently told me "I think it would've killed you not to, but if you hadn't told me? My life would be so much easier."

Food for thought, for me at least.


But, I mean, I care about her. I want good things for her and I want her to find whatever it is shes looking for.

I just have no desire to hear about it or help her or really be in the same state as her.

If you care about her and want good things for her, why do you have no desire to help her?

I'd say help her in as brief and separate way possible.

Because it's just good karma.

Getting into a long hypothetical where you imagine her coming to your house and vandalizing your car isn't really positive thinking at all.

Anyway, I say go for the karma.

[Koury]

If you care about her and want good things for her, why do you have no desire to help her?

I'd say help her in as brief and separate way possible.

Because it's just good karma.

Getting into a long hypothetical where you imagine her coming to your house and vandalizing your car isn't really positive thinking at all.

Anyway, I say go for the karma.

She was a major person in my life for many years. I love her and always will.

That being said, I really don't like her at all.

[xPANCAKEx]

The Fiery Tower

a goth who dislikes the world/humanity... well theres a turn up for the books! i mean, that really is shocking. We must inform the national press. The president may even have to make a speech on the matter. CALL AN EMERGENCY MEETING OF THE UN!!!

look, get over it. So what if shes a bit different to you? Unless you're 13, or still acting like it, you ARE allowed to date people from different social circles. If she makes you happy, then give it a try. Asking her on a date to see how things are between. If you have a good time and enjoy each others company thats all you need to get things started. If its not completely put you off from the get go, then worry about whether her misanthropy will "harsh the vibe" of things later down the line


She was a major person in my life for many years. I love her and always will.

That being said, I really don't like her at all.

if you dislike the woman, its not love, its an infatuation

[Zeb The Troll]

if you dislike the woman, its not love, its an infatuationI categorically disagree with this sentiment. I absolutely believe that it's possible to feel love for someone you don't like. Take, for example, children of abusive parents. What Koury's talking about need not be a romantic feeling. He didn't say that it was. It undoubtedly used to be, but perhaps now he loves her like a person loves a sibling who's grown up to be real world class jerk. You don't want to be around them, but you certainly hope things turn out better for them in the future. But until they do get better, they can stay the hell away.

[Koury]

if you dislike the woman, its not love, its an infatuation


I disagree strongly.

[Serpentine]

I'd like to posit a perspective: We're all accusing V of being selfish, but aren't we all in relationships for selfish reasons? It makes me happy to do selfless things. Well, if it makes me happy, it's not really selfless. If it makes you happy to be a good person, then it isn't really a selfless act.I'm not saying it's the least bit unreasonable or bad to take care of your own needs and wellbeing first. In fact, not doing so is a good way to create a bad relationship. However, from what has been said here, there is no indication that he is concerned for her needs and wellbeing at all. He's not just being selfish, he's being... I can't even think of a word, but it's the difference between taking the last bit of cake, and taking the cake you want then throwing the rest out because you're done with it.
In a good relationship, you are concerned about the happiness of the other party, and seek to maximise that happiness without sacrificing your own. V, as far as I've been able to tell, has no interest in the happiness of the other party whether it would require sacrifice or not.

As for your kiss-and-tell example, that's not so much "telling the truth" as "being honest to a fault". If she'd asked you whether you kissed anyone and you said no, then you would be lying, and, as a general rule, that would be bad to at least some degree. Whether honesty is always the best policy, so to speak, that's another debate.

[V for Victory]

That makes it even worse, because we're only hearing his side of the story, which presumably means he's putting himself in a better light than the other party would. That's... quite scary, actually.

I have a question for you, V: Do you, in fact, actually care for this person as more than a source of your own gratification? Because nothing I've read here so far even suggests that.
The fact is, your behaviour is likely, even probable, to cause someone a great deal of hurt - someone, above question pending, you presumably "care" about - yet you do not give a flying fruitcake about that. All you care about is yourself, and your girlfriend appears to be nothing but a tool to that end. In my, and many other's, moralities, that makes you a Bad Person. In fact, isn't that part of sociopathy or something?

In an answer to your question I care for her alot, proof of which is I jump through all the hoops and fabricate realities to acheive and maintain the situation

And i think it may be, not sure though


V, you have every right to lie.

Thanks, and everyone knows I lie so it fits your ethical structure. As previously stated I tell people I lie. All the time, thats when it gets fun


So, of all times for her to do it, ex-girlfriend contacted me yesterday.

I mean, kinda. She sent me a message. I have no desire to talk to her, not even to tell her to go away. I want to stay as far away as possible.

So I deleted it an went about my business. Then she sent me another one because she saw I just read it and didn't respond. Well, I did the same thing.

And in most cases I'd not really even have a problem doing this. But shes contacting me because she needs to know information from back when we lived together so she can figure out about getting a new place. Thats not exactly a bad reason.

But I don't care. She could go to the place and get the info herself. She is asking me for it (most of which I don't even have) because every time she has ever talked to the manager people shes ended up in some huge argument. Every time. Partly because they really ARE just dumb people and partly because ex has temper issues.

Anyway, so am I wrong here for trying to avoid her at all costs?

(Also, three days into my job search and I may have found something already. Only 21-27 hours (yeah, weird) and like 9/hr but whatever.)

I see a few options

Option #1: Continue deleting messages

Option #2: What? who is this? I don't recall

Option #3: Just tell her you don't have the information, tell her to stop contacting you and that whatever caused you two to break up is still a problem

Option#4: Contact the people for her

Option#5: Give her wrong information

Personally I'm an Option #5 guy. but it's your choice

[Serpentine]

In an answer to your question I care for her alot, proof of which is I jump through all the hoops and fabricate realities to acheive and maintain the situationWhat are you doing, where your girlfriend could not be happy without living in a fantasy? Without knowing exactly what your apparently constant lies consist of and are hiding, it sounds an awful lot like a trap...

[Destro_Yersul]

In an answer to your question I care for her alot, proof of which is I jump through all the hoops and fabricate realities to acheive and maintain the situation

"So, our whole relationship was a lie?"

"It was a lie I created just for you cause I love you a big huggy bunch. And as proof of that love, look at all the lies I told you! There's a lot of them."

[Dirk Kris]

What are you doing, where your girlfriend could not be happy without living in a fantasy? Without knowing exactly what your apparently constant lies consist of and are hiding, it sounds an awful lot like a trap...

In the words of a wise admiral..."It's a trap!"

Seriously, it takes work on both sides of a relationship to make it work. And honesty is key. Lies get old, both to teh teller and to the person being lied to. And if your relationship is at all long-term, you WILL be found out. It all comes out in time. Trust me, an RL friend is gettng out of a 6-year relationship, and she is finding out things she hasn't known for THAT long.

Bottom line is this: if your relationship is based on deceit, it won't last. Period. Your girlfriend will continue to expect this kind of behavior from you because it's what she expects. And in time, your resentment will grow and grow. And at that point, why even BE together? I think you guys need to have a long talk about truth, reality, and expectations if you want this to work. But from a few of your posts, let me advise changing your tone before you speak, because it doesn't SOUND like you want it to work out.

[Coidzor]

V, that just makes you sound like you purposefully vex anyone and everyone you come into contact with due to a lack of the feelings you seek to tweak and exploit.


I categorically disagree with this sentiment. I absolutely believe that it's possible to feel love for someone you don't like. Take, for example, children of abusive parents.

Can either children of abusive parents or the abusive parents themselves really put any love into that relationship paradigm? :smallconfused:

I thought the entire point was that the parent generation was incapable of love and thus sought to render the F1 generation at least as emotionally sterile if not more so. :smallconfused:

[Umael]

if you dislike the woman, its not love, its an infatuation


Sorry, mate, going to have to join in with the chorus of "I disagree".

It can't be romantic love if you dislike someone at the same time, but it can be love.

[Forever Curious]

Sorry, mate, going to have to join in with the chorus of "I disagree".

It can't be romantic love if you dislike someone at the same time, but it can be love.

I agree with the above disagreement (and all other disagreements, I agree).

[Mando Knight]

In an answer to your question I care for her alot, proof of which is I jump through all the hoops and fabricate realities to acheive and maintain the situation

And i think it may be, not sure though
So you build a marzipan bridge to a painting of her dreams because you care for her.

Do you care for her, or do you care for what her external emotional state is? If you really care, then don't fabricate an illusion of a reality in her favor, make it so.

The first duty of every Starfleet officer is to the truth, whether it's scientific truth or historical truth or personal truth! It is the guiding principle on which Starfleet is based! If you can't find it within yourself to stand up and tell the truth about what happened, you don't deserve to wear that uniform!

[rayne_dragon]

if you dislike the woman, its not love, its an infatuation

I'm going to have to disagree as well. Love's not an easy feeling to just toss away regardless of what happens... or at least it isn't for me and a number of people have told me it is the same for them. A lot of time even after someone pisses you off, you can't help but love them even though you want nothing to do with them at the moment.

I'm also not sure you can dislike someone you're infatuated with... infatuation seems to make you blind to a person's flaws. But perhaps I am mistaken in this.

[xPANCAKEx]

re: love and infatuation

im not gunna touch the "child of abusive parent" one - thats all kinds of child psychology. Many times a child in such a situation won't fully appreciate the abuse is infact abuse. Plus its probably a topic of discussion that would soon be board-unfriendly

Back on point: I personally think a lot of people use the term "love" as a catch all for all kinds of feelings of attachment. Its sloppy language use at best, often misguided and counterproductive to their own well being at worst. Just because you can't properly describe or explain your attachment to someone, doesn't make it love.

Infatuation doesn't blind you to a persons flaws - it means your attracted to them despite of any flaws

[skywalker]

I'm not saying it's the least bit unreasonable or bad to take care of your own needs and wellbeing first. In fact, not doing so is a good way to create a bad relationship. However, from what has been said here, there is no indication that he is concerned for her needs and wellbeing at all. He's not just being selfish, he's being... I can't even think of a word, but it's the difference between taking the last bit of cake, and taking the cake you want then throwing the rest out because you're done with it.
In a good relationship, you are concerned about the happiness of the other party, and seek to maximise that happiness without sacrificing your own. V, as far as I've been able to tell, has no interest in the happiness of the other party whether it would require sacrifice or not.

I think you are missing my point. My point is, if it makes us feel good (like we're better, or we're a good person, or we're a good BF/GF), then we're really doing it for selfish reasons, was my point. So even being a really good person is a selfish act.


She was a major person in my life for many years. I love her and always will.

That being said, I really don't like her at all.

Hate is a Strong Word...? Let's examine this. We like to say things like "I'll always love you," etc, but will we? How does love color one's actions?


if you dislike the woman, its not love, its an infatuation

I actually might agree. If the person is distasteful to you such that you are unwilling to talk to them and help them, I don't think that's love, even non-romantic love.

Of course, we've not really defined what love is, so it's hard to say one way or the other.

[Umael]

Back on point: I personally think a lot of people use the term "love" as a catch all for all kinds of feelings of attachment. Its sloppy language use at best, often misguided and counterproductive to their own well being at worst. Just because you can't properly describe or explain your attachment to someone, doesn't make it love.

That's fair, but you realize you are using your definition of love to mean something very particular. I reject that I use my own, quite distinct and deliberate terms (and I thank you not to call my language sloppy in this).

Erotic love is pretty close to infatuation is pretty close to lust, so I'm pretty much in agreement with you there.

Conditional love (i.e., "you'll love me IF you do...") isn't love. People use it and may even think it is. It's just manipulation.

Love through friendship is interesting. You can have spats with friends and dislike what they did, or even decide that you don't like them anymore, but you know you'll eventually get over it and go back to being friends. When a friendship gets that strong, yes, you can dislike your friend, and yet still love your friend - but that is debatable if it is really just a wide range of disliking things they have done and their habits instead of them personally - which leads into the question of identity and how far detached from actions and habits a person is, how much do they define someone. A topic for (much) later.

Familial love is to love a family member. You don't have to like them, you don't have to be in an abusive situation, but you can just love them because they are family. Brothers, sisters, parents, children, whomever to whomever, doesn't matter, doesn't need to be horrible or dramatic - just all part of growing up.

(By the way - to insinuate that any parent who doesn't like the person their "wayward" child has become must no longer love that person is highly insulting. Same for any child in that awkward point(s) of life where they know the strange thing that is an adult is not a creature they like, but they love them anyway. And again - abuse need never enter the picture.)

Spiritual love... well, it's not religious, but it is too easy to take it that way (and thus break forum rules), so I'll have to let this one go.

[Koury]

Hate is a Strong Word...? Let's examine this. We like to say things like "I'll always love you," etc, but will we? How does love color one's actions?

Ha, yeah. Thats actually one of the songs I posted. As for how love colors actions, well, it colors them in the brightest, most cheery colors possible. Believe me, this is something I know already.


If the person is distasteful to you such that you are unwilling to talk to them and help them, I don't think that's love, even non-romantic love.

No, I most certainly love her. I will say it feels silly to put too much effort into defending that fact, for a lot of reasons. It is what it is.

[Thes Hunter]

If I was around here more, I'd call troll...


but saying "Lie, it's good for everyone!" is definitely troll worthy.


Then again V, you're in highschool.... sorry to sound like an old lady here, but what do you really know about long term effects of relationships?

Lie, keep lying, it will work for you for a while... Girls will come and girls will go... and then when you lay in the hospital at the end of your time... you can think back over your life, and what effect you had on the world. Hopefully it is before then that you see how your actions affect others.

[Forever Curious]

If I was around here more, I'd call troll...


but saying "Lie, it's good for everyone!" is definitely troll worthy.


Then again V, you're in highschool.... sorry to sound like an old lady here, but what do you really know about long term effects of relationships?

Lie, keep lying, it will work for you for a while... Girls will come and girls will go... and then when you lay in the hospital at the end of your time... you can think back over your life, and what effect you had on the world. Hopefully it is before then that you see how your actions affect others.

To recap: just because he was defending his point does not make him a troll. He gave advice and was attacked because his beliefs did not comply with the majority.

[TRM]

In an answer to your question I care for her alot, proof of which is I jump through all the hoops and fabricate realities to acheive and maintain the situation

And i think it may be, not sure though


Your frequent reiterations are becoming dull.


To recap: just because he was defending his point does not make him a troll. He gave advice and was attacked because his beliefs did not comply with the majority.
Yours too, babe.

Anyway.

Love is such a vague word. And we become so elitist about it; those who have experienced "real" romantic love are quick to remind the flighty masses (often teenagers and young adults) how their love is false, simply lust.

[Coidzor]

Plus there's just something insufferable about people who idolize the idea of Romeo and Juliet.

Makes us wanna smash them.

[Forever Curious]

Plus there's just something insufferable about people who idolize the idea of Romeo and Juliet.

Makes us wanna smash them.

Romeo and Juliet is the ultimate farce of human relationships!

...sorry, had to say it.

[Forever Curious]

Your frequent reiterations are becoming dull.


Yours too, babe.

Anyway.

Love is such a vague word. And we become so elitist about it; those who have experienced "real" romantic love are quick to remind the flighty masses (often teenagers and young adults) how their love is false, simply lust.

Yay elitism! It exist even in something as benevolent as romance. Sigh...got to love people.

[Koury]

Yay elitism! It exist even in something as benevolent as romance. Sigh...got to love people.

But you don't REALLY love them. :smallwink:

[V for Victory]

Your frequent reiterations are becoming dull.



Just defending my belifs :) nothing wrong with that

[Forever Curious]

But you don't REALLY love them. :smallwink:

Touche. Claps for Koury!

[Umael]

Then again V, you're in highschool.... sorry to sound like an old lady here, but what do you really know about long term effects of relationships?

I'm probably older than you, but I think you got it.

V is young, and I wager speaks with from the voice of inexperience.

To would be equitable to say that, from V's perspective, he believes that lying has as much virtue as honesty. It would also be wise to take into consideration V's perspective when balancing his value as a peer.

[Tarnag40k]

Yeah. I just then have to worry about my car. I mean, she gets mad.

The odds of her doing something stupid like that are low, to be sure, but not low enough. Somewhere around, like 5%. And I know that I'VE rolled my fair share of 1s before.

I don't know. I just hope she doesn't come over and it doesn't even matter.

Thanks.

then you file a lawsuit against her, from what it sounds like to me, her just existing around you causes trouble, you need to remove her from any sort of involvement in your life. If it means making her butt-hurt about it, oh well you'll be better off in the end. Get rid of her, and wipe her from your mind, you'll be happier, I know from experience.

[rayne_dragon]

Back on point: I personally think a lot of people use the term "love" as a catch all for all kinds of feelings of attachment. Its sloppy language use at best, often misguided and counterproductive to their own well being at worst. Just because you can't properly describe or explain your attachment to someone, doesn't make it love.


The problem is emotions are very subjective and words seldom are adequate to tryly convey them. So I'd have to say that it's hard to tell if a person is truly in love without being the person in question. Personally, I'm inclined to let a person make their own decision about if they're in love or not and accept it even if I believe differently.

[Serpentine]

I think you are missing my point. My point is, if it makes us feel good (like we're better, or we're a good person, or we're a good BF/GF), then we're really doing it for selfish reasons, was my point. So even being a really good person is a selfish act.Then your point has absolutely nothing to do with what I've been saying. I never used the word "selfish" so far as I can remember. I don't disagree with you on this, and it is completely irrelevant to what I've been saying. It's like if I jumped into the "love without like" argument with "yeah, but like can mean similar, and it's possible to be similar to someone you don't love!"
So... Well, never mind the point of what you're saying, please explain the relevance of it?

Sorry Koury, I'm going to go with this: send her a simple, no-nonsense message consisting of "I have no interest in communicating with you at all. You can find the information you need at [X]. I will no longer respond to anything you send to me." I think it's just common decency and good manners, and ignoring her is just going to either keep her coming back because she'll come up with explanations of why you didn't respond - you didn't get it, you were busy, there was a power failure, whatever - or simply make her feel crappy forever without any resolution. A bad resolution is better than no resolution.
That said, I don't know what she did to you.

[AtomicKitKat]

Huh. So what is it when you can list what society might declare as her "flaws", but then turn it around into something "good"?:smallconfused:

Eg:

Society: She's got an overbite.
Me: So do I, although she wears it a little better.

[Serpentine]

"She's clumsy, but that just makes her adorable" :smallwink:

[Coidzor]

Society: She's got an overbite.
Me: So do I, although she wears it a little better.

Do people really pay attention to that sort of thing outside of middle school unless it's to the point of the grotesque?

Now, liking someone's physical foibles or little eccentricities sort of makes sense due to gaining familiarity and finding them comforting signs of said lover.

Like, I developed a tolerance for how my ex smelled when she missed a day showering due to *ahem* activities on our part.

[Matticus]

another day of school, another lack of anything conclusive.
i feel rotten.

[Zeb The Troll]

Can either children of abusive parents or the abusive parents themselves really put any love into that relationship paradigm? :smallconfused:Without getting in to too much detail, yes. I've seen it.


I thought the entire point was that the parent generation was incapable of love and thus sought to render the F1 generation at least as emotionally sterile if not more so. :smallconfused:First, I think you may be talking about extreme cases that make the news and end up with children in the hospital on a regular basis. This is not always the case. I'd wager that more often the parent feels that their actions are a necessary form of discipline. Second, I think you're giving the parents in these situations too much credit. I don't believe that these people are cognizant enough of the effects of their behavior to have a plan or a desired outcome. In short, there is no "point" to what they're doing.

[skywalker]

(By the way - to insinuate that any parent who doesn't like the person their "wayward" child has become must no longer love that person is highly insulting.

This is not what I was saying, nor believe flapjack-man to be saying. The parent, in this example, would probably not cut the child out of their life. If they did completely, I would be inclined to say that's not a particularly loving act.


Ha, yeah. Thats actually one of the songs I posted. As for how love colors actions, well, it colors them in the brightest, most cheery colors possible. Believe me, this is something I know already.

No, I most certainly love her. I will say it feels silly to put too much effort into defending that fact, for a lot of reasons. It is what it is.

Okay, let me rephrase. In my opinion "I love her," "I want the best for her" and "I'm completely unwilling to give her the information she requests, even tho it will help her" do not add up. They are not compatible statements.

Sorry to say "you don't love her then." That was wrong. I will say that, in my opinion, cutting someone out of your life completely and refusing to assist them in even a perfunctory way is not loving behavior, to me. Not at all.


If I was around here more, I'd call troll...


but saying "Lie, it's good for everyone!" is definitely troll worthy.

Skywalker would also like to remind you of Da Rulez (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/announcement.php?a=1).


then you file a lawsuit against her, from what it sounds like to me, her just existing around you causes trouble, you need to remove her from any sort of involvement in your life. If it means making her butt-hurt about it, oh well you'll be better off in the end. Get rid of her, and wipe her from your mind, you'll be happier, I know from experience.

Again, doesn't seem like the most loving behavior.


Then your point has absolutely nothing to do with what I've been saying. I never used the word "selfish" so far as I can remember. I don't disagree with you on this, and it is completely irrelevant to what I've been saying. It's like if I jumped into the "love without like" argument with "yeah, but like can mean similar, and it's possible to be similar to someone you don't love!"
So... Well, never mind the point of what you're saying, please explain the relevance of it?

You appeared to be accusing him of selfishness, only caring about himself. I suppose I intended it as a hypothetical along the lines of "caring about others fulfills selfish desires, so are we who fulfill those desires by caring about others any better than those who fulfill those desires by lying, cheating, etc?"

And it's really not the same. Mine had more than "absolutely nothing" to do with what you were saying.

I actually had a lot of commentary about the sociopathy angle you brought up to go along with what I originally said, but it got lost in the shuffle when I accidentally pressed back or something.

[Serpentine]

You appeared to be accusing him of selfishness, only caring about himself. I suppose I intended it as a hypothetical along the lines of "caring about others fulfills selfish desires, so are we who fulfill those desires by caring about others any better than those who fulfill those desires by lying, cheating, etc?"

And it's really not the same. Mine had more than "absolutely nothing" to do with what you were saying.

I actually had a lot of commentary about the sociopathy angle you brought up to go along with what I originally said, but it got lost in the shuffle when I accidentally pressed back or something.I still don't see what this has to do with what I was saying. We can't say that someone who has demonstrated absolutely no concern for the happiness and wellbeing of their significant other is being selfish because ultimately everything, including altruism, is selfish? Shall we never identify selfishness when we see it, then? Is it always hypocrisy to point it out? "It's pointless to point out that an elephant is a mammal, because a mouse is a mammal as well?" It feels like... a non-argument.
While I do believe he is being incredibly selfish, that was not my point. My point was, from what V has been saying here, that makes for a very poor relationship, and a poor basis for relationship advice.

edit: I went back and looked at the original posts. You said that because getting into a relationship is essentially a selfish act, it is unreasonable of us to point out V's selfishness. I disagree entirely. Getting into a relationship may have selfish motivations, but in a good relationship your selfishness is overruled (or alternatively, if you must, directed) by our desire to make the other person happy. As far as I'm concerned, that's one of, if not the, basis of good relationships: two people seeking to make each other - and themselves - happy. In V's case, his excessive selfishness is making the entire relationship about making him happy. The selfishness inherit in entering a relationship is very, very different to the selfishness in making that relationship all about you.

[reorith]

another day of school, another lack of anything conclusive.
i feel rotten.

no pressure Matticus, it isn't like we're relying on you two to repopulate the planet or anything. how many days left do you have in the semester? draw an itinerary with the series of events that need to take place between now and your objective. then build a threat matrix, this is all the stuff that can hinder your progress that is within your sphere of control. if you can't advance your itinerary, work on removing stuff from the threat matrix and then go back to it. hold this pattern and success will come dedicated work.

[Serpentine]

no pressure Matticus, it isn't like we're relying on you two to repopulate the planet or anything.UNLESS... O.O

Hm. I wonder if that would be a good motivation for people who're struggling to ask someone out... Pretend that the very fate of the world depends on you getting that date! Though that could cause trouble if you're knocked back...

[Matticus]

[insanity]

before I say this I'd like to state in my defence I've been staying up until 5-6am and sleeping for twelve hours and suddenly have to try to have a school sleeping pattern

but everything you said makes absolutely zero sense except maybe the first line. for some reason I laughed anyway.

[reorith]

before I say this I'd like to state in my defence I've been staying up until 5-6am and sleeping for twelve hours and suddenly have to try to have a school sleeping pattern

but everything you said makes absolutely zero sense except maybe the first line. for some reason I laughed anyway.

relax, take a deep breath and put on your cool face. this is a new day. yesterday is naught but compost and regret. now pound it.
http://i45.tinypic.com/1sl18i.jpg
and do your thing.

[RabbitHoleLost]

before I say this I'd like to state in my defence I've been staying up until 5-6am and sleeping for twelve hours and suddenly have to try to have a school sleeping pattern

but everything you said makes absolutely zero sense except maybe the first line. for some reason I laughed anyway.

itinerary= long term plan
threat matrix= things that could go wrong or interfere.

[Koury]

Okay, let me rephrase. In my opinion "I love her," "I want the best for her" and "I'm completely unwilling to give her the information she requests, even tho it will help her" do not add up. They are not compatible statements.

Sorry to say "you don't love her then." That was wrong. I will say that, in my opinion, cutting someone out of your life completely and refusing to assist them in even a perfunctory way is not loving behavior, to me. Not at all.

Again, I feel silly defending this, and as such will be making this brief (though its nothing to do with you guys. Its just weird *shrug*).

I love her. This wasn't a choice I made or an option I had. It happened. This fact didn't magically change when she left me. It didn't change when she broke in and stole my stuff. It didn't change when she did every hurtful thing she could think of doing to me. It didn't change when she moved out and dumped the entire remaining portion of our lease on me, crippling me financially. It didn't change when she took everything she ever gave me, birthday presents and all, back. It didn't change because she started seeing other people and it didn't change after I found out she was just leading me on, months later, and it won't change in the future.

If it came down to it, I'd still go to bat for her. Not because I like her (I have more then enough reasons to not), but because I DO love her.

That being said, she makes me mad. I don't know if its even on purpose anymore, but she does. I have no desire to talk to her or be around her. Her needing information from our old apartment complex is hardly life-or-death. Shes a big girl and can figure that out on her own. Maybe she has grown up and can handle her temper now. If so, she doesn't need my help and is just being lazy. If not, well, practice makes perfect.

[skywalker]

*snip*

I was trying to provoke thought and consideration of V, instead of offhand dismissal. That's all.


before I say this I'd like to state in my defence I've been staying up until 5-6am and sleeping for twelve hours and suddenly have to try to have a school sleeping pattern

but everything you said makes absolutely zero sense except maybe the first line. for some reason I laughed anyway.

Protip: Take reorith with a grain of salt. It will help.


If it came down to it, I'd still go to bat for her. Not because I like her (I have more then enough reasons to not), but because I DO love her.

Yes. You can consider my post to be me saying, in effect "then go to bat for her." It is quite simple for me: "I want to see her succeed. I can assist her in that by giving her a few minutes of my time. So I will." I'm not accusing you of not loving her.


That being said, she makes me mad. I don't know if its even on purpose anymore, but she does. I have no desire to talk to her or be around her. Her needing information from our old apartment complex is hardly life-or-death. Shes a big girl and can figure that out on her own. Maybe she has grown up and can handle her temper now. If so, she doesn't need my help and is just being lazy. If not, well, practice makes perfect.

I'm accusing you of letting your anger and your hurt get in the way of performing an act of love for another person. If someone you had never spoken to needed a perfunctory set of information, would you give it to them?

To be honest, I'm in a similar situation with my ex-girlfriend. She broke up with me, essentially left me for greener pastures. I frequently ask myself "do I love this person? If so, why? If not, why am I still in communication?"

[Pyrian]

I would like to make a semantic quibble about the claim that feeling good about helping other people is "selfish". I consider that claim to be flatly false - it is a misrepresentation of what the word "selfish" means.

It is true that any intelligence worthy of the term seeks to satisfy its own motives. That is what it means to behave intelligently. That's a very simple and essentially elemental fact, and it has absolutely nothing to do with selfishness, one way or the other.

Selfishness is not defined (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/selfishness) (nor normally used) in terms of acting in your own interest at all, one way or the other. Selfishness is ignoring (or minimizing) the interests of others! It is effectively opposed to altruism.

Even when altruism does the actor all sorts of good (and it frequently does!), it cannot be both intentional and selfish - the central concern for others is all that is required to rule out selfishness.

[Quincunx]

itinerary= long term plan
threat matrix= things that could go wrong or interfere.

(blank look) Military jargon? The definitions do help, though.

[Serpentine]

Skywalker: In that case, I protest your picking me out, as I've gone out of my way to ask for more detail from V and acknowledge that we are certainly not getting the full picture, while giving my opinion based on what evidence there is at hand.
I also don't particularly think you went about that aim terribly efficiously, but eh *shrug* It just felt somewhat non sequiterish.

[Zeb The Troll]

(blank look) Military jargon? The definitions do help, though.While used in the military, it certainly did not originate, nor is it limited to, military usage. Any job that makes risk assessments, be they financial, security, or strategic, will be familiar with a threat matrix, for example. And "itinerary" I would have considered a fairly common, everyday word. It's your plan to get from Point A to Point B (either literally or figuratively) a la the schedule one receives from the airlines when a flight is booked.

Mayhap this is another example of the differences in dialect between the US and the UK?

[Coidzor]

While used in the military, it certainly did not originate, nor is it limited to, military usage. Any job that makes risk assessments, be they financial, security, or strategic, will be familiar with a threat matrix, for example. And "itinerary" I would have considered a fairly common, everyday word. It's your plan to get from Point A to Point B (either literally or figuratively) a la the schedule one receives from the airlines when a flight is booked.

Mayhap this is another example of the differences in dialect between the US and the UK?

Maybe. Quin's american born and bred though. I don't think itinerary would be the one that was thought to be jargon anyway. The threat assessment matrix idea though is fairly self-explanatory. Other than the matrix bit.

[xPANCAKEx]

a further thought on the difference between love and infatuation:

its the difference between art and porn. I may not always be able to define it, but i know it when i see it.



Protip: Take reorith with a grain of salt. It will help.


screw that! if i asked for advice on here, reorith is one of the few peoples opinions i'd actually look forward to hearing!

I like his moxy

[loopy]

I love her. This wasn't a choice I made or an option I had. It happened. This fact didn't magically change when she left me. It didn't change when she broke in and stole my stuff. It didn't change when she did every hurtful thing she could think of doing to me. It didn't change when she moved out and dumped the entire remaining portion of our lease on me, crippling me financially. It didn't change when she took everything she ever gave me, birthday presents and all, back. It didn't change because she started seeing other people and it didn't change after I found out she was just leading me on, months later, and it won't change in the future.

If it came down to it, I'd still go to bat for her. Not because I like her (I have more then enough reasons to not), but because I DO love her.

Koury, if you still 'go to bat every time' for a woman who treats you like that, you deserve everything you get.

Not to hurt your obviously quite delicate feelings but... Stop being silly. Harden up, tell her you don't want to be in contact with her any more. If she questions why, I'm sure you'll have a list of things to yell at her about.

[Dr.Epic]

So I'm not accustom to sharing my intimate love life to complete strangers on the internet but then again I'm not accustom to sharing my intimate love life with anyone so maybe the fact it's anonymous makes it easier. I've put my problem in spoilers for reasons of length:

So there's this girl I like and I want to ask her out but there's kind of this problem - well two problems if you count my wallet being empty - but the main issue here is our current relationship. I barely know this girl but I've hung out with her enough times to know she's funny, quirky, and just pleasant to be around. I met her freshmen year and we only really hung out at lunch with a group of people. I met her through friends and even back then I didn't really talk to her that much but I still had a crush on her.

So this year I got to know her a little bit better. I'm hanging out with her clique more and were becoming friends but then something weird happens. Sometime around, I don't even remember, let's say late October, she just kind of gives me the cold shoulder. Like she would wave to me if we should pass each other on campus. I'm not really sure why. Maybe she just didn't see me or I had done something to offend her. I don't know.

So it went on like that for the rest of the fall semester but a little while ago right after winter break I bumped into her at the school cafeteria and we had a brief conversation. Nothing real major just what classes we were taking and such. I even didn't sit with her or anything that day. I kind of confused by this. I did see her a few weeks back one Friday night when I was hanging out with people. Maybe that had something to do with it. She rarely goes to those things. I don't what to think of that.

Anyway, I'm just starting to ramble I guess. I just really want some evaluation of my situation and maybe some advice about how to strengthen the relationship. One of my friends is closer to her than I am and I thought about asking him for help. We're planning on being each others roommates next year so I'm sure he would help if I asked. Also her roommate is in one of my classes so if you think there's a potential way that could somehow lead me to her let me know.

Thanks to anyone who helps.

[AtomicKitKat]

"She's clumsy, but that just makes her adorable" :smallwink:

For me, it's more like: "She's clumsy, which means I get to be her eyes!"/"She's clumsy, which means more opportunities to carry her on my back!"/"She's clumsy, which means I get to make her boo-boos feel better!":smallbiggrin:


Do people really pay attention to that sort of thing outside of middle school unless it's to the point of the grotesque?

Now, liking someone's physical foibles or little eccentricities sort of makes sense due to gaining familiarity and finding them comforting signs of said lover.

Like, I developed a tolerance for how my ex smelled when she missed a day showering due to *ahem* activities on our part.

In my case, it's a certain degree of self-insecurity, due to having been mocked a lot about it back in school. She does look a little "dim" if she's just staring into space without pulling her lips over them, which I guess is how I would have looked(back when my hair was longer), which just kind of reminds me to pay attention to myself more. Yeah, a bit of a vicious self-abusive cycle. I do think this falls under "The more like me they are, the more I like them, because they are me." Kinda. Something about the whole "The first person to love is yourself, then your momma, then your family. Anyone who looks like they're your family falls under 'your family'." Did that make sense?

[xPANCAKEx]

Dr.Epic

i suppose you could ask your mutual friend, see what they say. But in all fairness, i've found through both experiance and observation the quickest way to resolve things is just to go direct to the source

next time you bump into her, just flat out ask her "is everything ok? you seem a little distant lately"

if she says no, and its a sincere no, then suggest grabbing coffee sometime to catch up (coffee is cheap - so even on a student budget you should be able to afford that). If her answer is anything less than a sincere no, then just ask "are you sure? you seem weird lately, and im just worried that i've done something to offend you?"

Its straight to the point, honest and more importantly, you're both adults so that kind of situation shouldn't be a problem. And in all fairness, if you want to build a relationship with the woman in question, then you better get used to taking a direct approach, as more often than not, its the only way to make things work.

after all - doesn't bode well if you can't even TALK to the lass

[Coidzor]

screw that! if i asked for advice on here, reorith is one of the few peoples opinions i'd actually look forward to hearing!

I like his moxy

I knows! I loves that guy!

AtomicKitKat: Other than wanting candy after typing out your name, yeah, that makes sense to me.

It sort of reminds me of how my ex was obsessed with worrying about having a big nose. But she didn't, really. I actually liked it, insofar as one can actively like a bodypart which one can't have fun with. Not that I didn't give her hell in licking the tip of it to tease it.

Fun times that. Still haven't figured out how to replicate tip of the nose hickies yet though. got to give a forehead hickey a month ago though, that was amusing that it worked at all.

...I'm also reminded of the fact that my last two serious relationships were with girls that people thought were related to me. And one of whom had a doppleganger in one of my 3rd cousins. Which was kinda creepy actually. Thankfully the creepiness of it prevented anything untoward mentally from happening. :smallyuk:

[Koury]

So, one of the places I applied to (not one of the game places :smallfrown:) wants me to 'call them first thing Monday.'

I assume this is good news.

[AtomicKitKat]

...I'm also reminded of the fact that my last two serious relationships were with girls that people thought were related to me. And one of whom had a doppleganger in one of my 3rd cousins. Which was kinda creepy actually. Thankfully the creepiness of it prevented anything untoward mentally from happening. :smallyuk:

I often take pause in the pursuit to tally up "identicality" points, and typically, almost any girl I fall for is potentially a distaff counterpart, although significantly taller than any twin sister and/or alternate dimension version of myself. Somewhere around 80-90% physical match. Maybe it just means I have a large ego. Or something.

[carrion pigeons]

This thread seems to be more about romantic relationships than anything, but I figured I'd give it a shot.

I do not have a good relationship with my father. There are a lot of reason for this, I guess, but the major ones that stick out in my mind are:

1) I cannot talk to him. Every time I get into a conversation with him, I feel like my mind shuts down. If I ever do manage to actually say how I feel about something, he insists I give him examples of multiple situations that caused me to feel that way, and when I can't do it, he dismisses my opinions as unfounded. If I do manage to come up with an example, he shoots it down as inapplicable. If I try to do the same thing when he voices his opinions, he either insists that it's common sense or bases his claims on stuff other people have said. He then complains that I don't do enough research on the subject, that I can't do the same.

2) He is extremely opinionated, and I disagree with almost everything he believes, or at least, in the reasons why he believes what he does. His interests are in politics, guns, and debate, none of which I am remotely interested in or knowledgeable about.

3) If I refuse to talk to him about his interests, then, sometimes, instead of going away and leaving me alone like I wish he would, he complains about me. Given the plethora of things he can come up with to complain about me, I don't believe that his complaining really has anything to do with me, but is just an expression of frustration that he can't talk about the stuff he wants to talk about. Regardless, it hurts, and I resent him taking it out on me.

4) Related to #3, whenever my dad gives me advice or suggestions that I don't take, he gets resentful and bottles it up for weeks at a time, then lets it loose all at once about how I don't respect him. To be fair, this is true; I do not respect him in almost any sense of the word, but at least I don't go throwing it in his face.

I know the normal response is that I need to "communicate" with the man. The problem is that, one the one end, I do not communicate well, and on the other end, I think my dad is more interesting in turning any conversation into a debate he has to win than in trying to learn anything about me.

For a long time, I believed that if I just made my lack of desire to talk to him clear by avoiding him, he would get the message, but this does not seem to be working. The conversations we have are less frequent, but generally even less pleasant, and when he feels the need to let loose, he seeks me out in situations where I can't easily get away.

I am finding this relationship unworkable, but I don't know what to do about it. Any advice?

[Pyrian]

This thread seems to be more about romantic relationships than anything, but I figured I'd give it a shot.No, no, any relationship suffices. :smallcool:


I know the normal response is that I need to "communicate" with the man.There are many things for which communication is vital. I'm not sure your situation is one of them, however. I mean, frankly, your post consists entirely of issues with communication itself. Really, it sounds like you're bothered by his opinions, and he has no interest in questioning those opinions.

I, too, have differences of opinions with my parents. I suspect it's more the norm than the exception. I noted with some interest how completely my attitude towards those differences changed when I became financially independent. Suddenly, their disapproval simply didn't matter much. Once I stopped caring too much, it instantly ceased to be a problem. Nowadays, I just make sure to talk about other things, and do not encourage my parents to ramble on about things I disagree with. If they do, I shrug and change the subject.

I don't know if that helps you. Changing perspective is not easy without a change of circumstance, but at the end of the day, you generally cannot change other people's behavior, but only your response to that behavior. Assume your father just is the way he is, and you need to deal with that as best you can. You didn't say whether your father is causing other problems?

[RabbitHoleLost]

This thing called "love" has been thrown into the equation.
By him, anyways.

I'm still not sure.

[rakkoon]

Good news Koury. Let us know how it all ends. There will be celibrations in the end :smallsmile:

[Dr.Epic]

Dr.Epic

i suppose you could ask your mutual friend, see what they say. But in all fairness, i've found through both experiance and observation the quickest way to resolve things is just to go direct to the source

next time you bump into her, just flat out ask her "is everything ok? you seem a little distant lately"

if she says no, and its a sincere no, then suggest grabbing coffee sometime to catch up (coffee is cheap - so even on a student budget you should be able to afford that). If her answer is anything less than a sincere no, then just ask "are you sure? you seem weird lately, and im just worried that i've done something to offend you?"

Its straight to the point, honest and more importantly, you're both adults so that kind of situation shouldn't be a problem. And in all fairness, if you want to build a relationship with the woman in question, then you better get used to taking a direct approach, as more often than not, its the only way to make things work.

after all - doesn't bode well if you can't even TALK to the lass

Good advise and thanks. I will say that I do rarely see her. It's mostly just passing each other every week or on campus to and from class so I'm not sure how many chances to be direct with her I'll have. Granted our relationship exactly isn't, well, I guess "solid" in lack of a better word. But I still like to give this thing a shot. I do like her and would like to know her better. Maybe I'll even find out she's not my type and forget this whole thing but I can't really do any of the above at this distant of a relationship. My best bet is to rely on my friend. I know as you say it's not the best option but he's closer to her than me and at the very least he could tell me when they hang out and get me included at those times.

[carrion pigeons]

Really, it sounds like you're bothered by his opinions, and he has no interest in questioning those opinions.

While I am bothered by his opinions, that's not the problem. Or at least not the source of the problem. The problem is that my dad views conversation as competition, and unless he's winning, he's got a problem with you.

[Frozen_Feet]

While I am bothered by his opinions, that's not the problem. Or at least not the source of the problem. The problem is that my dad views conversation as competition, and unless he's winning, he's got a problem with you.

Has it always been like this, or did something happen in the interim? How does he react if you just ignore him when he's going overboard? If you'd express your dissatisfaction straigth to his face, would he listen, keep on nagging or would it spark an all out war?

[Umael]

While I am bothered by his opinions, that's not the problem. Or at least not the source of the problem. The problem is that my dad views conversation as competition, and unless he's winning, he's got a problem with you.

Not good.

Okay, I think it would help to know a few things about the situation. How old you are, how old your father is (yes, it matters), are your parents still together, what kind of people (especially family members) can influence your father - things of that nature.

I ask that because your age matters a lot. If you are going through puberty, your father could be reacting to you as many parents react towards their teenagers - with frustrating and a bit of confusion, among other things. Or, it could be the fact that you are going to be an independent adult before too long. If you already ARE an adult, then the equation changes to how your father views you AS an adult, instead of a child.

Your father's age matters because people change over the years, and while it is foolish to say "he's 48, all 48-year-olds act this way", there are some trends to hint at why someone might think or do or say certain things.

Your parents still being together is a big one, because a healthy relationship (especially a marriage (not putting down non-marriages)) means that your mother can step in and help you. Conversely, if your parents just got through a nasty divorce or are in the process of going through a nasty divorce, the stress could also explain some of your father's behaviors.

Having other adults, especially family members, who have influence over your father can be wonderful. For example, if Grandma likes you, maybe she can have a talk with her son, or if that fails, beat some sense into him with a cane.

And of course, other things that might be important that you haven't mentioned (possibly because you don't realize they are important) could always help when it comes to giving advice.

[carrion pigeons]

Has it always been like this, or did something happen in the interim? How does he react if you just ignore him when he's going overboard? If you'd express your dissatisfaction straigth to his face, would he listen, keep on nagging or would it spark an all out war?

It's been like this for as long as I can remember. If I ignore him, he sulks and eventually corners me. If I express dissatisfaction to his face, he takes it as a personal challenge to prove that my feelings are not valid, or else he makes a tactical retreat and sulks for a few days and eventually corners me again.


Okay, I think it would help to know a few things about the situation. How old you are, how old your father is (yes, it matters), are your parents still together, what kind of people (especially family members) can influence your father - things of that nature.

I am 27, and a college graduate. I lived out of the house for several years, but after I lost my job last year, I moved back home to regroup. However, my being out of the house did not change our relationship; it just made him easier to ignore.

My dad is 56, and my parents are still together. The only people I ever knew who were any good at influencing him were my uncle (his twin brother) and his best friend (who died about 2 years ago). All my grandparents are deceased. On my dad's side of the family, he has another living sister who is in an assisted living facility, a younger brother who committed suicide several years ago, and 5 nephews and 2 nieces (1 autistic son of his sister, 5 children to his twin's first wife and 1 son to his twin's second wife). My mom deals with my dad by always letting him win the conversation; every argument they have results in an apology on her end. I've talked to her about it, she does it deliberately because she knows that by apologizing, she satisfies his need for dominance and then she doesn't have to fight anymore. But I can't force myself to do this. My uncle treats conversation much the same way my dad does, and would not be much help.

I also have 2 sisters and a brother, all adults, none married. I'll admit, I get a lot more abuse than they seem to, but I think that has more to do with the fact that they're all more willing to argue than I am than with any kind of positive relationship with him.

I could just move out again. In fact, having recently gotten another job, I plan to, very soon. But experience tells me that won't actually fix the relationship. My Dad left his parents' home when he was 17 and joined the army to get away from his family. He has spent most of life since then estranged from all of his family except his twin brother. When I was a child, I met my dad's immediate family 3 times: one Christmas when I was eight or ten or so (they came to our house as a surprise), one time when we won free tickets to Disneyland (his family lived in Anaheim, CA, and he really had no excuse not to visit them), and once for his dad's (my grandpa's) funeral. He did go visit them alone several times (including for my grandma's funeral, to which he expressly uninvited us), but not often. I spent most of my childhood listening to how degenerate and worthless his family was, and how lucky he was to have gotten away. (Admittedly, he has a point; my grandpa was a compulsive gambler who drove their family into poverty and my grandma and the two younger children of the family lived together their whole lives subsisting on welfare, until my uncle committed suicide [he was well into his 40's and had never lived away from home, at the time] and my grandma died.)

I don't want to end up like that, avoiding my past just because I find it unpleasant. I just don't know how to change it.

[Pyrian]

I could just move out again. In fact, having recently gotten another job, I plan to, very soon. But experience tells me that won't actually fix the relationship.

...

I don't want to end up like that, avoiding my past just because I find it unpleasant. I just don't know how to change it.I'm going to repeat what I said to your last post: you can change your own behavior if you want to, but you cannot expect to be able to change his. Move out and move on with your life. Don't expect your father to become a different person, and don't get your heart set on changing him - even if you succeed he'll most likely snap back before long.

That being said, a firm "I'm not interested in discussing that," repeated however many times is necessary (perhaps eventually peppered with "What part of 'I'm not interested in discussing that' did you not understand?") is all that's really required of you, "cornered" or otherwise.

[Umael]

Well, now that you've provided a bit more information, I got to say that Pyrian pretty much hit it dead on. One thing I would add is that if it were me, I would do any communication I felt necessary through email, voicemail, or letter. In addition, next time he badgered me and "I don't feel like talking about it" doesn't work, I would point out that as one of his children, I have say over which nursing home he ends up in.

(Which is a better comment to make than snarking that he is a lot more like his family than he will admit, being that his son doesn't like his son's father either.)

Seriously, while this thread is about helping out with relationships, one of the pieces of advice is that the relationship isn't worth salvaging.

[Coidzor]

^: Or sometimes that it's past the point where any salvaging can be done.

Blech. I'm feeling weird since I'm feeling a sort of attraction that's different from carnality, weird sappy insides filled with helium rose colored infatuation, or an obsessive sort of infatuation either.

Nope, it pretty much is just finding her interesting and feeling I should ask her out. :smallconfused: How very, very strange. There's not that usual mix of fear, excitement, and the urge to vomit or wet myself or run screaming into the night in terror about it either.

Maybe it's the fact I don't see her everyday and she lives in another town so I don't get any of the pheromones to have a properly viscerally terrifying experience.

[Syka]

I unfortunately don't have much advice to give on the dad situation. It does sound past salvage unless he wakes up. Ironically, this could be him thinking that if you guys are similar enough that the relationship would be more functional than his family's was.


Coid, it doesn't have to be sudden or terrifying. Attraction can be calm and steady, even in the beginning. I know with Oz and I, while it was intense at times, overall it was just a feeling of rightness. No butterflies, beyond the normal 'happy to see each other' kind, or anything. There are elements of what you described but for a general picture of our relationship it's more just a calm sense of 'this is how it's supposed to be'.

Everyone is different, but attraction (and love) can come in many varied forms. Even a non-terrifying one like that can end up terrifying and confusing due to lack of experience with it. :smallwink: Good luck. :)

[Coidzor]

Well, right now it's mostly annoying because I have no way to act upon it. At all. Gragh. Well, no, I could message her on facebook asking her out, but that's essentially a non-option due to my beliefs and distaste for going to that point.

The idea of a long distance relationship strikes me as particularly unedifying too. Despite what my roommate says about unedifying only actually meaning non-educational...

I mean, if I had a car it'd be more palatable to have to drive two hours just to see her at all, but without one, it would mean shelling out a hundred dollars just to get up to where she is. Ugh.

[Syka]

Technically...unedifying does simply mean uneducational. :smallsmile: Maybe you mean simply unsatisfying?

Also, does she have access to a car? You could always do what Oz and I did when I was about 3 hours away sans car- he usually visited me, but I'd often compensate him for gas or, if he would let me do that, pay for stuff during the duration of his stay (dinner, movies, whatever; now I'm home, we just split stuff).


I mean, long distance is definitely tough and both parties willingness to work at it should be considered. I would just caution you against ruling it out out of hand simply because it's "distance". You can miss out on a lot of good opportunities that way. Now, if it just doesn't feel right (ie, there is something you can't put your finger on, but distance is a handy excuse), just ignore my advice.

So consider it, and if the pros end up outweighing the cons- go for it. NOT over Facebook, but given distance phone would not be an inappropriate medium.

[Coidzor]

Technically...unedifying does simply mean uneducational. :smallsmile: Maybe you mean simply unsatisfying?

Also, does she have access to a car? You could always do what Oz and I did when I was about 3 hours away sans car- he usually visited me, but I'd often compensate him for gas or, if he would let me do that, pay for stuff during the duration of his stay (dinner, movies, whatever; now I'm home, we just split stuff).


I mean, long distance is definitely tough and both parties willingness to work at it should be considered. I would just caution you against ruling it out out of hand simply because it's "distance". You can miss out on a lot of good opportunities that way. Now, if it just doesn't feel right (ie, there is something you can't put your finger on, but distance is a handy excuse), just ignore my advice.

So consider it, and if the pros end up outweighing the cons- go for it. NOT over Facebook, but given distance phone would not be an inappropriate medium.

Well, I'm probably going to keep on using it to mean distasteful in a way that provokes revulsion without the urge to kill all those involved like distastefulness usually provokes.

To be honest, I'm not even going to consider it unless it persists in annoying me. Mostly because I'm angry at the situation for the phone to be the best way currently available to me for asking someone out.

I've got nothing against phones for asking someone out on a date or anything, but... bleh. Just different for something like that.

I guess I'll just see about whether that plan to get together for that one thing can be salvaged at all. I mean, I don't know if it's been withdrawn without any notification, but as of 3 weeks ago I had a standing invitation to stay with her the next time I came up.

Need to figure out if my texts are getting to her properly or if they're messing up again, that's part of why I'm sort of bleh, because I don't know when she works and don't really know what to say right now because I'm too percolating and annoyed at being interested in her considering the situation.

So, suffice to say, but I'm a bit cross and testy right now, so I apologize for being short with you syka.

[Syka]

Makes a bit more sense. Granted, I don't get the "I like this person as a friend but I'm annoyed that I like them" thing, personally.

Best of luck, Coidz. :) Just check before randomly showing up on her doorstep. :smallwink:

[Coidzor]

Best of luck, Coidz. :) Just check before randomly showing up on her doorstep. :smallwink:

Well, yes, that's the idea, after all.

I'm annoyed because I don't like having feelings for someone I actually like. It's thoroughly unpleasant for me. Having just hormones for someone I actually like is also unpleasant, but generally short-lived. I think it's a sort of westmarck effect or something. Having feelings for someone means it gets in the way of you and makes you trip up and be less adept at dealing with them, so you can't properly keep an eye on them.

Plus you get jealous if anyone else seems to be having an easier time with them or is just plain closer to them than you are. And if you have things preventing you from even asking them out, that's just torture. As it is, the only thing keeping me from asking her out is that I don't want to ask her out even though part of me feels driven to do so. Why I don't want to ask her out is mostly related to the long distance aspect and partially related to the occasional difficulty in just getting in touch with her. There's also the bit that doesn't think I have a ghost of a chance due to the distance and not being as close to her as I really should be to ask her out and the fact that she never really reacted to my telling her I liked her while I was drunk.

Well, that and the fact that part of me thinks I killed any romantic prospects I had with her just by letting her know I drank at all. As far as I can tell I didn't actually offend her or even really say anything vulgar or anything. I just sort of was an idiot who texted her to take my mind off of my really, really long walk home (about an hour into a 3 hour long walk at around 1 AM when I found out she was still up when she replied to one of my earlier text messages and started flirting with her at some point along the way.

I'm sort of horribly embarrassed by that but she never really acknowledged that it happened even though she was flirting back though more reactive in her flirtation being mostly in response to my initiation, so not exactly sure what to make of that. She's remained friendly though, but yeah...

[skywalker]

This thing called "love" has been thrown into the equation.
By him, anyways.

I'm still not sure.

All you need is LOVE.

[Serpentine]

All you need is LOVE.Love is a many splendored thing!

[Coidzor]

All you need is LOVE.

*various trumpety noises*

[skywalker]

Love is a many splendored thing!

Love lift us up where we belong!

[Serpentine]

Love lift us up where we belong!Please, don't start that again.
We got the lyrics wrong from the start :(

[Koury]

So, I know this isn't really the thread for this but still...

I called the place today like I was supposed to and got a hold of whoever I was supposed to. She said something along the lines of "I'm not at my desk right now, sorry."

So... Wait, what? Do I call back later? Do I wait for them to call me?

[Syka]

Did either one of you say you were going to call back? Was there anything else to the conversation?

If not, I'd say call back in a couple hours, most likely.

[Koury]

No, not really.

"Hello, my name is Koury Casey. I put in an application last week and was told to call today."

"Oh, OK. Well, I'm not at my desk right now. I'll look at it when I get the chance."


...Yeah.

[Coidzor]

In lieu of better information, I guess?

[Serpentine]

Give her, say, a day, then call back. If she's still "not available", ask for a time when she will be available to call her back.
There's nothing wrong with following up on resumes. It brings you to their attention, and makes it clear that you really want the job. Even if that job gets filled, then (depending on the actual business) it can be a good idea to keep on calling them - say, once a fortnight or month - just in case there's another job coming up. Then, if a job does become available, they may think "we've got to fill this job... but oh look, we've got this resume already from this guy who keeps nagging us, maybe we should just give it to him, save us some effort".

That said, I pretty much just fell into all my jobs, although I did have to keep calling and nagging the town library boss for about 4 months before he finished all the paperwork and everything so I could actually start working...

[Koury]

That was my basic plan. CAll tomorrow, a little later. The store hours are 6 am -9 pm and I called at 9 am. I'm aiming for like 10 tomorrow.

[Coidzor]

So, I mentioned to my best friend about wondering whether this one girl liked me or not, after she sort of attached herself to my elbow by following me so closely once at the mall. He decided to test this by mentioning my name to her as he was leaving, she perked her head up and started following him around, with some kind of excuse of being bored and wanting to hit me (some other girl had asked her to hit me for some reason.). She followed him around until he met up with his dad and they got into the truck to leave so she gave him a curious look and wandered off.

Flash forward to me waiting for my best friend in the lounge area since he told me to meet him there after I answered his phone after getting out of the shower. The group there mentions that she had vanished along with Ned awhile ago and they're sort of perturbed since, well, it's quite unusual for her to wander off with a guy at random like that while waiting for the bus with her sister in law. So I send a text to my friend asking how her liver was, mostly as a joke, and asking what on earth he could've said to get her to go with him somewhere, and why. She shows up and punches me in the arms and is quite a bit more... energetic and emotive than usual, and since she seemed to actually have been warming up to me lately I asked for her number and got it. Though she seemed slightly confused as to why I wanted it. So I said, "well, it probably has something to do with the possibility of calling you."

Then I left as I got called by my best friend and told his dad had the car running and was waiting for us on the other side of the bus hub on campus.

Then he basically explains all of this and is like "She would hardly talk to me even when I tried to make conversation" and going on about how boring she seemed to be.

So I'm sort of amused right now.

[Aedilred]

I hate myself sometimes.

With the immediate problem of the house I didn't want taken care of, things on the accommodation front are looking up- two of my friends are hoping to be in town within a couple of weeks, and we can start looking for somewhere together. The more of us we can get together, the more cost-effective the place would become, and, obviously, the bigger and nicer the house/flat we'll be able to afford.

Further to my last situation, I've sort-of-discussed the question with my gf of our living together. By which I mean we've talked around the subject sufficiently that we both understand what the other one means and roughly where they stand- this is a fairly routine means of conversation for us, so the chance of a major misunderstanding is small. From her part, I know from past conversations that she's amenable to the idea of living together and her only real concern was that I would be able to afford the rent. Now that I have a steady job that's not really an issue any longer.

Since then, though- since it's become a reality, and with it looking increasingly likely that it's going to happen soon- I've become very nervous and negative about the whole thing. This is the way I used to feel about the idea- it didn't feel like the right move to make at that juncture, and I didn't want to run the risk of ruining the relationship for the sake of convenience. I've started to wonder whether the desire I've been feeling recently to live with her is in fact just a response to the unsatisfactory nature of my current arrangements, and seeming like the only viable option to get out of them, rather than actually wanting to live with her. But for the last couple of months I've been examining the idea from every angle and repeatedly came to the conclusion that I was no longer that bothered by it.

It's not so much that I see it as the start of a process that leads inevitably to settling down and marriage*. That's fine by me. To be perfectly honest, the reasons I haven't already asked her to marry me are practical, not emotional ones. It may have something to do with the amount of time I currently spend alone- something I value quite highly- and the necessary constriction of that were I to be living with her. That said, the time I currently spend with her is in some ways rather artificial, since I'm always "staying over" (and likewise when she used to come to see me) so there's an implicit lack of freedom there that would be lessened were we to share accommodation all the time.

I just don't really know what to make of it. Is this just a natural reaction any time your life is about to change in a major way? I've never really had anything like that before, but then every time there has hitherto been such a change it's been unambiguous either positively or negatively, so I find that difficult to judge.

Is anyone in a position to offer any advice? Am I just being silly?


*This is something else we've discussed at length recently, albeit not with reference specifically to ourselves, but with a degree of subtext. While neither of our upbringings was particularly conservative, mine was rather moreso than hers, and I don't think she sees living together in quite the same terms that I do for that reason. As far as I'm concerned it is the start of an inevitable chain of events etc. while I think she views it rather more casually. This isn't to say that she feels that about the relationship in general, but I don't think living together seems such a huge step for her as it does for me.

[Coidzor]

Well, while generally cohabitation is the beginning of a certain segment on the path of a relationship, it's not like moving in together starts some kind of countdown timer and then you'll just find yourselves in a wedding ceremony once it's counted down.

If your main reason not to get married is more "I don't want to give up my alone time" than "I'm not sure I want to marry her yet" or "I don't think I'm ready to get married yet," then that suggests some issues to me, but then, I'm coming from my perspective where that suggests more of a lack of communication and conceptualization of what cohabitation would be like and how you'd go about it than any real black mark against living together or getting wedded.

[Syka]

OK, I totally get where you are coming from. I know I want to live with Oz, get married, yada yada yada. Eventually. The thought of doing it NOW scares the living daylights out of me. I don't know why, it just does. I understand my fear of living together NOW moreso than I understand the fear of getting married NOW.

Mostly it stems from the fact I saw how his last serious relationship ended and how them living together had effected it. It wasn't pretty. They are friends now, but the first few months after the break up they still had to live together. Thankfully, his mom moved down and he was able to technically move in with her, though he kept up his part of the lease payments.

Either way...I don't want that to happen to us. Maybe you've seen friends of yours go through similar things and you are having similar thoughts; maybe not.

But it doesn't sound to me as if you want to move in with her just for convience sake or your current situation. It sounds more like "We are both in a position where it is feasible, yet not a requirement. So....why not?"


As for alone time, there is no harm in letting her know that you will need your alone time every now and then even if you are living together. It's simply a matter of communication. Depending on your schedules this may or may not be difficult. One of my classmates and I were commiserating last semester about how school and work was making quality time with our boyfriend's non-existent. She lives with her boyfriend, and yet they apparently saw each other very little because their schedules were totally off.


As for marriage...that's your own ball of wax, but living together doesn't necessarily need to equate to marriage, although since you seem to feel that it's the next step it may be wise to openly (rather than through subtext) discuss it. Good luck. :smallsmile: I'm currently attempting my own forays into this field for practical purposes.

[Aedilred]

I think you're right on your last point, and this is one of the reasons in favour of doing it that has convinced me that it's not a terrible idea. Because we're seeing each other all the time, we might well intrude on each other's time less. I think she is just as protective of her own time as I am of mine, in fact, so it shouldn't be difficult to work something out there. In any case, we can hardly have less quality time together than we do at the moment while still remaining in the same city, so it has to be an improvement there.


Either way...I don't want that to happen to us. Maybe you've seen friends of yours go through similar things and you are having similar thoughts; maybe not.
I haven't seen the same thing exactly, but I've seen it almost happen, and I've seen it waiting to happen, and none of it's looked pretty. As you say, I don't really want that to happen to us, and that is what- until now- has been putting me off. The increased strain that living together might put our relationship under and the increased messiness that would result if it all went wrong... these were the principal reasons I haven't wanted to do it up until now. But these feel like less of an issue now, because I feel like our relationship has already been stretched pretty thin and we've survived that, so, again, it can't be any worse than that was. Not to mention that we've been together for so long that, if I'm still not prepared to move in with her by now, I have to ask myself whether I ever would be.


If your main reason not to get married is more "I don't want to give up my alone time" than "I'm not sure I want to marry her yet" or "I don't think I'm ready to get married yet,"
It's more lack of readiness than anything, although in a practical rather than an emotional sense. My financial state is pretty parlous, and even if I could afford a ring/wedding it seems like a silly use of money compared to a house; I feel I should bring more to a marriage than I currently have to offer (which is basically my undying love and devotion) and it'll take a while for me to assemble that; we're both still pretty young, and while our families and friends would be supportive, I think it could cause a lot of tension there, because they'd think we were idiots; moreover for all of the above reasons and probably more I can't think of right now, she'd probably say no were I to ask her tomorrow.

Losing my alone time doesn't bother me too much so long as it's being replaced with something worthwhile. I think what worries me is that it would be replaced with the same inanity that I currently get when I'm with her, but when I have my rational hat on, I think that would actually improve were we to be living together, rather than deteriorate.

In all honesty, now that I'm articulating it it seems to me that my principal doubts and fears are to do entirely with me and not really the relationship at all- I haven't achieved what I wanted/expected to in my life by this point, and what I really want is to give myself some extra time to accomplish that. It's not even that living with her will in any way inhibit my ability to do so, just that I always thought I'd be coming at this situation from a position of much greater strength than I actually am.

[Syka]

Have you discussed those fears with her?

I know that when Oz and I finally move, I will likely be the one supporting us. If possible I will be paying all of the rent, actually. I know sometimes he feels weird that I'm at this point and he's still working on it, but it doesn't bug me at all and I'm more than happy to help him out. I'd rather know that THAT is his reason for not wanting to do something, rather than his actual feelings for me. There was a period where he was very against ever wanting to get married, about a year and a half in. That scared me for a little bit, thinking it was me...we talked and it was more connected to seeing his friend go through losing his wife and child than us, and once he realized 'marriage' wouldn't change how he felt, his view changed.

That said, if you and your girlfriend are on the same page THAT is what matters more than anything else.

Good luck. :smallsmile:

[Serpentine]

Question, Aedilred: If you two weren't a couple, and were just good friends, would you want to live with her?

[evil-frosty]

Ok, well i just asked a girl if she wanted to hang out again after a school dance. She said yes :smallbiggrin:. But so i am pretty sure she is looking at this in just a friends sorta way which i dont have a problem with because if it goes well then i know if it's a good idea to enter a relationship with her or not. But anyway any good ideas on what to do when we go out? I am drawing a complete blank.

[Umael]

evil-frosty:

I would sit down and make a list of things you would like to do. Then, go through that list and figure out which ones would not be appropriate for an after-dance activity.

(For example, after going to a dance, you properly aren't going to go bug hunting, read a book, or camping. Unless bug hunting involved the two of you, some nets, and a bunch of fireflies.)

The big thing about dating is it is a time to get to know someone. Don't do something you think you should do "because it is what people do when they date", but do something that you think is fun and you think she would think is fun, and most importantly, that you think she and you would have fun together doing.

[Serpentine]

Oh man, I wish a guy would take me bug hunting! Unless it involved pit traps, they're a lot of work and not much fun. In fact... I don't think I'd want to go bug hunting with anyone who studied them at uni...

[Coidzor]

*lets Serps have her choice of the heavy weapons* (http://img2.timeinc.net/ew/dynamic/imgs/070503/scifigallery/starshiptroopers_l.jpg)

Hmm... ...Y'know, I'm having a difficult time thinking of things to do other than hit up a coffee house or icy cream after a dance that isn't rated R and usually what gets the slasher villain started.

[evil-frosty]

I am sorry if i wasnt clear, but the dance was this past Saturday this is me asking her to go out somewhere bout a week later. And i am just drawing a complete balnk on what we could do.

[Serpentine]

What're you both interested in, what sort of a town do you live in, how's your funds, what're your transport options, etc. etc. etc.?

[V for Victory]

I am sorry if i wasnt clear, but the dance was this past Saturday this is me asking her to go out somewhere bout a week later. And i am just drawing a complete balnk on what we could do.

Movies are always fun, as is laser tag, mini golf or just a nice walk

[rakkoon]

Do you live near a beach, a mountain, reservation or such?
You can go for a movie, a snack/restaurant in your neighbourhood
Laser tag on a first date rrrreally depends on the woman involved.
Is she interested in sports or competitions that have matches in your neighbourhood?

[Umael]

Oh man, I wish a guy would take me bug hunting! Unless it involved pit traps, they're a lot of work and not much fun. In fact... I don't think I'd want to go bug hunting with anyone who studied them at uni...

Hey, evil-frosty didn't make it clear that the dance was already in the past. I was thinking, "go to the dance, go bug hunting... wait, that's not going to work".

I mean, for me, reading CAN be a date. I love reading out-loud, especially if my date and I really dig the story (probably with me having read it before, my date being new but interested in it). And I have yet to do a snuggle-read, where both of us are peacefully curled up next to each other, reading different books. But I don't think, "go to the prom, come home with date, curl up with a book and read it out-loud to further express my interest".

Oh, and if I had the funds, I would LOVE to take a date on a weekend camping event, to be exact, to an SCA event. There is something nice about the thought of having the money to buy someone a simple tunic to get them in garb. But again, right after the Saturday night dance isn't the best time to go to said event.

(Psst! Serp! Want to go bug-hunting?)

[Mathis]

I'm kind of new to these kind of confessions and I'll admit it does feel more than a little weird to do this without at least a few glasses of whiskey beforehand, I'm also pretty sure someone has posted this question before but I wasn't able to find it if so, but here goes, I need to get it off my chest.

I just can't seem to get over this girlfriend I had. Nuh-uh, not a chance. We were together for 4 years, 4 years I consider to be the best years of my life. It's been a year and a half now since we parted ways and while feelings have changed ofcourse, I still catch myself thinking about her more than I like to admit. I want her, and I want her back even if I know theres a snowballs chance in hell it will ever happen. She has moved on, she's very happy too by the looks of it. It hurts though, seeing her with that someone else. Don't get me wrong here, I'm genuinly happy she's doing well, it just hurts to see it and I wish it was me. I see her now and then downtown, but we never talk. We don't even wave more than we give eachother an acknowledging nod saying "Yes, I'm aware you're there".

I've been with others, tried to get a decent relationship going with someone I know was interested in making things work with me. But every time we try to develop something on a deep emotional level I push them away because I like to be honest about the way I feel, and I don't want to continue a relationship I'm not 100% committed too. Anyway, I'll try to get to a point. The thing is I'm seeing a pattern here, while I find myself attracted to other girls, whenever I try to get a serious relationship going I'm just not able to get that passionate falling in love sensation again. I guess Im trying to say that I'm just not able to fall in love anymore.

So, my question, or plea if you want, to the playground is: I need help, I need tips, anything to help me move on. What would you do? What have you done in a similar situation?

[evil-frosty]

What're you both interested in, what sort of a town do you live in, how's your funds, what're your transport options, etc. etc. etc.?


To answer your questions first, i really dont know a whole lot bout her as so far we have just gone to the dance together and talked a little. We live in the suburbs, bout 30 minutes away from each other if i dont get lost. Funds are good as i just collected some money in my fantasy football league, and for transport i have a car i can drive.

Another quick question: I am not a 100% sure if she is looking at this as a date b/c how i worded it was "I was wondering if you would like to get together again?" Thats how I worded it. So what do you guys think?

[Aedilred]

Question, Aedilred: If you two weren't a couple, and were just good friends, would you want to live with her?
Hmm, good question, and a difficult one to answer really, as I've never really had a proper relationship with her that's been non-romantic in nature (I knew her before we were together, but not very well). I consider her my best friend and trust her more implicitly than anyone else, although whether that's affected by the romantic aspect is difficult to judge.

I *think* I'd be happy to live with her were she not my girlfriend. However the fact that she is brings a lot of cards to the table, I think, so it's difficult to consider in isolation anyway.

[Coidzor]

Another quick question: I am not a 100% sure if she is looking at this as a date b/c how i worded it was "I was wondering if you would like to get together again?" Thats how I worded it. So what do you guys think?

Unfortunately your way of phrasing it would be a bit inconclusive.

How did you go to the dance together?

[GolemsVoice]

Soo, it's-a me again.
I work at a youth-hostel-ish place, where we often have groups staying overnight, logically. So one day, we have a group of (very young) teachers that are going through additional training.
They also wanted to celebrate the end of the first part of their education. So when I had finished work I stayed and had fun with them, since they invited me (I also have a room to stay there, so I wouldn't need to get home/to work again)
I am no real fan of alcohole and drinking games, so I found myself a few poeple and we sang and played billiard together, and we got talking. So there was this girl who was also more of the quiet type, and we talked a lot and found out we had many common interest like video gaming and roleplaying, and generally get along very well. A collegue of her's comments on this, and how we would make a good pair, how she had no boyfriend, and I had no girlfriend occasionally, though I myself didn't make any advance other than telling her I like talking to her and enjoy her company.
So, the next day, the collegue of her's comes to me and asks me for my cellphone number on behalf of this girl, because she's "too shy to ask herself". Of course I am wary, but she assures me that this is really the case, so I give it to her, and she gives me the girl's number, in case "she didn't call". She seemed genuine about this, and asked again if we got along well.
So, question: what to do? I enjoyed talking to her, and finding a girl with these interest, who is fun and smart at the same time, and even has good looks (she's no beauty queen, but I like her) is quite rare, but somehow, I can't quite shake the feelind that this was an attempt by her collegue to bring us both together. I'll give her time to call me until friday, and I think I'll call her myself then, because I have the weekend off, so we could do something together. If this IS a hoax, and she didn't ask for my number, I'll explain the situation and ask if she still wanted to do something, because even if I can't date her, I see no reason we coudn't be friends.

But I'm not really sure what to say. Hey, it's me, you didn't call so I called you, want to go see a movie? Note that I don't even know where she lives, but I know it's somewhere that is in an hour's drive from here.
Sorry if my writing is a bit hard to understand, it just won't flow as usual.

[Coidzor]

*Exchange of pleasantries, perhaps here* Hey, what's her face gave me your number after asking for mine the other night, and I figured I should say hey at some point. *or perhaps pleasantries here* *question of availability for coffee or whathaveyou here followed by arranging of details if an affirmative answer is given*

That.... that's about the most constructive thought I could give you on the subject. Sorry. :smallfrown:

[GolemsVoice]

That.... that's about the most constructive thought I could give you on the subject. Sorry.

That's fine, thanks. It's not like I'm writhing in agony over a lovesick heart, I just felt stupid calling her without having put some though behind it. Maybe she calls ME, that would solve a whole lot of "problems".

[snoopy13a]

So, the next day, the collegue of her's comes to me and asks me for my cellphone number on behalf of this girl, because she's "too shy to ask herself". Of course I am wary, but she assures me that this is really the case, so I give it to her, and she gives me the girl's number, in case "she didn't call". She seemed genuine about this, and asked again if we got along well.
So, question: what to do? I enjoyed talking to her, and finding a girl with these interest, who is fun and smart at the same time, and even has good looks (she's no beauty queen, but I like her) is quite rare, but somehow, I can't quite shake the feelind that this was an attempt by her collegue to bring us both together. I'll give her time to call me until friday, and I think I'll call her myself then, because I have the weekend off, so we could do something together. If this IS a hoax, and she didn't ask for my number, I'll explain the situation and ask if she still wanted to do something, because even if I can't date her, I see no reason we coudn't be friends.

But I'm not really sure what to say. Hey, it's me, you didn't call so I called you, want to go see a movie? Note that I don't even know where she lives, but I know it's somewhere that is in an hour's drive from here.
Sorry if my writing is a bit hard to understand, it just won't flow as usual.

Call her. Say hi and that her friend gave you her number. Talk a little bit and ask her out.

The worst that happen is that she'll say no and you'll never see her again. Which is the same result as if you don't call her.

[AtomicKitKat]

So this is stupid, but I just had to put it out there. To kid myself into thinking that it's not about her, I decided to eat some really heart-unhealthy stuff for lunch today, so that I could blame it for the chest pains. Stupid organelles that are still hung up on her, fighting with equally stupid organelles willing to slap me whenever I catch me looking wistfully. Blasted unicellular sub-organisms.:smallyuk:

[evil-frosty]

Unfortunately your way of phrasing it would be a bit inconclusive.

How did you go to the dance together?

It was a blind date, as my overly agressive friends wanted me to go.

[snoopy13a]

Another quick question: I am not a 100% sure if she is looking at this as a date b/c how i worded it was "I was wondering if you would like to get together again?" Thats how I worded it. So what do you guys think?

The two of you are going somewhere right? That's a date even if it is "unofficial".

Don't worry about the semantics. Go out with her, get to know her better and if things go well, try to sneak in a good night's kiss :smallbiggrin:

[Coidzor]

It was a blind date, as my overly agressive friends wanted me to go.

So it was a blind date and you're doing a follow up. She knew it was a date, blind or otherwise, yes?

Um, yeah. Unless you were just hella awkward or seemed uninterested in her physically to an absurd degree, it would make the most sense for her to interpret it as a romantic interest investigation.

[TFT]

Alright, this isn't exactly a question on romance, but...

I have a future step mother. She and I are on different sides politically(I won't go any farther than that), and she basically just called me stupid and the guy I was supporting stupid(Over Facebook). So, my question is this: Should I just completely ignore the comment, or defend myself without insulting her? Or is there some solution I haven't thought of?

[reorith]

The Fiery Tower

the spectrum of revenge runs the length from infraprank to ultra-violence. find a good range and work a consistent theme. as her possible step son, she'll constantly view you as a competitor for your dad's attention and resources. you'll need to prove that you are a worthy adversary and not one to be trifled with, a message you would not send by ignoring her comment or defending yourself in a passive manner.

[Coidzor]

Yeah, you may not realize it now, but that woman is a primary competitor and a threat to your ability to inherit anything from your father at all when he passes on. So you have to establish that you're not going to be swept aside by her at all, and she has to know that well in advance.

Unless you have a crappy enough relationship with your father that he is going to want you cut out anyway. *shrug*

Of course, disregard this if this is some kind of step-mom in law sort of thing.

In which case evaluate it from your whatchamacallit's stance on the step-parent and the main-parent and so on and so forth.

[Tequila Sunrise]

Aren't we jumping the gun here, folks? How do we know that Fiery Towers' mom-to-be is marrying his father? [Rather than the mother of a fiance, for example.] And if we do know, how do we know his father is treating his family as a social fight club for his entertainment that he'll use to determine who's mentioned in his will?

Regardless, some people are self-righteous and there's not much anyone can do about it. The best you can reasonably expect to accomplish is going to family functions without her causing direct mischief. How best to accomplish that depends on her personality and attitude.

On a different note, thanks again to Pyrian for his book suggestion. How to Win Friends and Influence People really cemented in my mind a few things -- like calling people by name to gain instant likability. I just wish Carnegie had written a book aimed at singles. I didn't find anything to lend confidence in approaching strangers for example.

[Coidzor]

On a different note, thanks again to Pyrian for his book suggestion. How to Win Friends and Influence People really cemented in my mind a few things -- like calling people by name to gain instant likability. I just wish Carnegie had written a book aimed at singles. I didn't find anything to lend confidence in approaching strangers for example.

Wait, what? People don't normally call one another by name?

[Tanaric]

Wait, what? People don't normally call one another by name?

Of course not, Other Internet Guy. That would be weird.

[Serpentine]

Green-hooded Internet Person # 3.4 is semi-correct, I think it's more that people tend to avoid names, and the suggestion is that you go out of your way a bit to use them.

[skywalker]

The Fiery Tower

the spectrum of revenge runs the length from infraprank to ultra-violence. find a good range and work a consistent theme. as her possible step son, she'll constantly view you as a competitor for your dad's attention and resources. you'll need to prove that you are a worthy adversary and not one to be trifled with, a message you would not send by ignoring her comment or defending yourself in a passive manner.

:smalleek:


Yeah, you may not realize it now, but that woman is a primary competitor and a threat to your ability to inherit anything from your father at all when he passes on. So you have to establish that you're not going to be swept aside by her at all, and she has to know that well in advance.

Unless you have a crappy enough relationship with your father that he is going to want you cut out anyway. *shrug*

:eek:


And if we do know, how do we know his father is treating his family as a social fight club for his entertainment that he'll use to determine who's mentioned in his will?

Exactly.


Regardless, some people are self-righteous and there's not much anyone can do about it. The best you can reasonably expect to accomplish is going to family functions without her causing direct mischief. How best to accomplish that depends on her personality and attitude.

I concur with this.

Fiery Tower, I would like some more information: How old are you, how long have you known her, how long has your father known her, how long until they are married?

If it were me, I would want to fire back out of personal pride.

However, unless she said something glaringly idiotic (IE, even her own side would say she was wrong or had argued the point ineptly), I would let it go. Why? Because (and I'm assuming your my age, not 40) we're idiots. Regardless of where we stand on the political spectrum, unless we agree 100% with an elder, they will see us as those dumb kids who are too young to know better. In her mind, she is probably saying "I'm gonna ask you again in 20 years, and you're gonna say I was right, and you were an idiot. I was an idiot at your age."

Point is, I've learned to stop arguing with my parents (and most people more than about 10 years older than me) when it comes to such things, because they don't even take me seriously.


Wait, what? People don't normally call one another by name?

Ever seen heard the phrase "my name isn't 'Hey you!'"? I've seen it written on tables in bars before.

Do you always address servers, salespeople, and anyone else wearing a name-tag by their name? Most people don't. I had a server the other night at a restaurant, we were halfway thru our meal and I realized I didn't know his name. I said "Excuse me, but I think I've forgotten your name." His response? "I didn't give it." I was astonished. How could he not? Was it that customers never used his name, so he started forgetting to give it?

Whenever someone comes up to my table and says "Hi, I'm Melanie, and I'll be your server tonight. What can I get you to drink?" I don't say "I'll have a scotch and soda." I say "Hi Melanie. I'd like a scotch and soda please." When Melanie comes back with my drink, and she asks what I'd like to eat and I don't know, I don't say "What's good?" I say "Melanie, what would you recommend?" When Melanie brings me what I ordered, I say "Thank you Melanie."

Guess who never gets the wrong (or bad) food? I mean never. I've not had something prepared differently from how I want it at a restaurant in years, and I eat out a lot. My parents? A few of my friends? Happens to them all the time. In particular, at our local Panera bread, I can order food for my whole family (we are big on special preparations) and get everything exactly as ordered. Anyone else in the family (and we eat there together often, they must know we're the same family) puts in the exact same order and something gets messed up every time.

That book is almost like magic.

[Coidzor]

:eek:

Bah. Obviously you haven't seen enough movies to know about that loophole. Or seen enough stories about it reaching the level of pseudo news. :smallwink:

hmm...I'll have to keep that in mind. Though it's been awhile since I've been given a name by a server. Then again, it's been a while since I've had the opportunity to be so served. Guess I should fix that...

[Quincunx]

It's not an insult to refer to someone by name when it's merely plastered onto their chest and not proffered by the person? . . .well, even if it is, maybe the offense wakes up the mind and breaks up the indifference.

[Tequila Sunrise]

Whenever someone comes up to my table and says "Hi, I'm Melanie, and I'll be your server tonight. What can I get you to drink?" I don't say "I'll have a scotch and soda." I say "Hi Melanie. I'd like a scotch and soda please." When Melanie comes back with my drink, and she asks what I'd like to eat and I don't know, I don't say "What's good?" I say "Melanie, what would you recommend?" When Melanie brings me what I ordered, I say "Thank you Melanie."

Guess who never gets the wrong (or bad) food? I mean never. I've not had something prepared differently from how I want it at a restaurant in years, and I eat out a lot. My parents? A few of my friends? Happens to them all the time. In particular, at our local Panera bread, I can order food for my whole family (we are big on special preparations) and get everything exactly as ordered. Anyone else in the family (and we eat there together often, they must know we're the same family) puts in the exact same order and something gets messed up every time.
This is the kind of thing that Carnegie points out in his book: call someone by their right name, who wouldn't expect you to use it, and you get instant familiarity.

Of course I call my friends and family by name, but I've never really made an effort to remember or use others' names. Until now; I'm making a point to learn and remember the names of acquaintances and people I don't have to know.

[Coidzor]

It's not an insult to refer to someone by name when it's merely plastered onto their chest and not proffered by the person? . . .well, even if it is, maybe the offense wakes up the mind and breaks up the indifference.

Well, if you're in a place where you're wearing your name, you've got to either develop thick enough skin that you can stand people using it like they're supposed to (that is why they're made to wear them) or have a mind set up where it's not a greivous insult. :smallconfused:

So...hard to tell if you're being facetious or not. ...I'm not sure if my being sick or trying to figure this post out has given me this headache or not. I hate being sick.

What's worse, I got sick the same night I was out with someone who was already getting sick. My body didn't even do me the usual courtesy of waking up sick afterwards like it usually does.

And I'm pretty sure that girl I mentioned a while ago whose father died and who was opening up to me and getting a bit more chummy is into me now. Only I'm not sure how to proceed or if I should really even mentally acknowledge any of this until her father's funerary proceedings are done with.

I feel sort of awkward about the idea of asking someone out or something like that while they're in that process, y'know? Or possibly I think it'd just make me look bad like I was just trying to get into her pants quickly and then exeunt.

...Which, oddly enough, I got told off preemptively if I even thought about doing it by a whole bunch of people in a group back when I just suspected she liked me rather than basically having it confirmed by a conversation I overheard from her and another while I was in a dressing room. Well, confirmed in so far as an eavesdropped conversation can be confirmation. Her sister in law joined in with the telling me off of the idea of taking advantage of her or corrupting her innocence somehow, so maybe that should've tipped me off that there was something to my suspicions in the first place, but I like to be skeptical and try not to assume things, especially when people are being silly like they were about it.

Like I could corrupt a girl that the idea of sleeping with within 2 months of her father's demise when I share the same first name as him sort of skeeves me out. Plus I think she's at least disinterested in sex, since some fairly bland references to it have made her blanch. ...And I'm not exactly a serious drinker or user of interesting and illicit substances, so there's no real introductory corridor there for corruption.

...Hmm, great, now I'm going to be dwelling on how I could possibly corrupt someone else, even taking into account their limited knowledge of who I am.

[Pyrian]

On a different note, thanks again to Pyrian for his book suggestion. How to Win Friends and Influence People...I'm glad you found value in it! :smallcool:

[Mando Knight]

It's not an insult to refer to someone by name when it's merely plastered onto their chest and not proffered by the person? . . .well, even if it is, maybe the offense wakes up the mind and breaks up the indifference.
Nope. And if you use it with a dashing smile and genuine respect, they'll love you for it... not just because you're obviously then the kind of person that likes to leave generous tips, either.

[Adumbration]

Ahem. Hem. Hem. (and haw, while at it.)

Remember my earlier posting in this thread? About her being engaged?

... She just updated her profile to single.

Talk about mixed emotions right now. :smalleek:

Writing this partially just to clarify my feelings to myself, so feel free to ignore this. Or not.

A) I was consigned to the fact that there would not be anything romantical between us.
B) I am no longer.
C) I'm mentally whipping myself because in the last few months, I've kept very little to none contact with her. (Well, this is partially due to general depression, but that's another matter.)
D) I feel a little guilty, because I'm placing such importance to something that should really have no impact on my behavior, if I had been looking for just friendship. It did, and this does.
E) ****. I have no idea what to do, if I should do anything, if I should do nothing. Pardon my language.

Can you tell that I'm a bit given to introspection, up to a fault?

[Coidzor]

Well, I guess what you want is to talk to her, and seeing how she is and asking about the changed status would be mentionable at some point after pleasantries.

[snoopy13a]

Ahem. Hem. Hem. (and haw, while at it.)

Remember my earlier posting in this thread? About her being engaged?

... She just updated her profile to single.

Talk about mixed emotions right now. :smalleek:



Don't apply any full court pressure yet (nice basketball metaphor there :smalltongue: ). This "singleness" could be just one step in an extended fight. They could be back together in a few days.

[loopy]

I think I've failed to grasp the point of Valentines Day... Five Valentines and counting... :smallamused:

[Cobra_Ikari]

Gah. I woke up today after dreaming about a girl with a huge smile on my face. So much for deniability at liking her...

My situation with my friends and the girl I was kinda dating's a bit resolved. She's now in a steady relationship with my bestie, psycho posessor is mostly tamed, and we've sorta convinced my bestie that yes, you do have to remember your old friends when you have a new girlfriend. Of course, now I'm crushing on the girl I was dating's little sister, so...murr.

...why does it seem like you always like the people it's hardest to be with?

EDIT: On a different note, does anyone else tell their friends they love them without specifying "platonically", and have them understand instantly?

And does anyone else call friends by pet-ish names? I call all my female friends "hun", and everyone seems to assume it means we're dating (or, in one case, married). :smallconfused:

[Coidzor]

Hun's kinda a bad one for people drawing that sort of conclusion. What with its especial connotations of sexual propriety.

Which is why women are usually most offended if they're going to be offended by being called Honey or something of that calibre.

Hmm... Though you are in the American South... So it should actually be less intense or pervasive than/as the rest of the nation...


And, yes, there are people who are I've personally been able to say I love without specifying what type of love it was and have them understand that I wasn't talking about getting into their pants. I believe most people who could say they loved someone else have already established a sufficiently colored rapport to be able to do so.


Is this little sister the one that was mentioned between 1-3 months ago that is a minor, something like 16 soon to be 17? :smallconfused: And/or the one that you had previously mentioned as a viable alternative to her if things didn't work out?

[skywalker]

Well, if you're in a place where you're wearing your name, you've got to either develop thick enough skin that you can stand people using it like they're supposed to (that is why they're made to wear them) or have a mind set up where it's not a greivous insult. :smallconfused:

Yeah, why is there a name-tag if I'm not supposed to use it?


EDIT: On a different note, does anyone else tell their friends they love them without specifying "platonically", and have them understand instantly?

Yes, altho usually my male friends. I don't do so on a regular basis, but most of my friends would understand. Also, my older (like, a generation older) friends tend to be much more okay with it.


And does anyone else call friends by pet-ish names? I call all my female friends "hun", and everyone seems to assume it means we're dating (or, in one case, married). :smallconfused:

Honestly Cobra, when a guy calls a girl "hun," my typical first reaction is "possibly gay?" rather than "possibly dating?" I do the same as you, but generally not with "hun," and I'm not concerned with people thinking I'm gay. If it were something like "baby" or "sweetheart," that would be different, but "hun" is such a camp word coming out of most guys mouths.

[Quincunx]

For unexpected pet names, I haven't met any term to top the northern Englishman whose default form of female address seems to be 'flower'. (And this is a guy who shares rants with me about particular gaming nerfs. No illusion of flower-hood should remain on any side.) I'd rather hear 'hun' than the implication of age that is 'ma'am'. Still, as it follows on the heels of the discussion of using real names, let me add that pet names could make a good hedge for those of us who can never remember the name of the person we're addressing. . .

[Pika...]

So....

(Note sorry for putting this out and not in the relationship thread, but need advice ASAP)

I just got off the phone with the girl I might be donating for, and she said she wanted to "start" tomorrow!!!

But then it got a bit confusing. My guess is they never actually believed I was still waiting for marriage. :/

Not only that, things were held up from last week because she was waiting on her partner to get off work. Apparently she is/was/I don't know part of the incentive? In a two-for-one deal I guess (she is not conceiving, though...). :smalleek:

She just said she will call me back after talking with her spouse by phone.


Wow, only chance a guy like me would ever get at a threesome, and I have to turn it down. LoL. Hope I did not ruin things.

[Dr. Bath]

Honestly? I can't see how it would work when your ideology conflicts with, uh, 'regular' insemination. Artificial insemination is pretty damn expensive almost everywhere, as far as I know.

Also, this doesn't really need its own thread, Relationship Woes and Advice would have got you an answer just as fast.

[Pika...]

Honestly? I can't see how it would work when your ideology conflicts with, uh, 'regular' insemination. Artificial insemination is pretty damn expensive almost everywhere, as far as I know.

Also, this doesn't really need its own thread, Relationship Woes and Advice would have got you an answer just as fast.

http://www.fertilityplus.org/faq/homeinsem.html

One of them is a nurse/works at a hospital. I thought she was getting a syringe.

And I am not sure if this counts as a 'relationship", or I did not until ten minutes ago...

[Starfols]

I'm really not sure what you're asking here. Can you be more concise?

[Pika...]

I'm really not sure what you're asking here. Can you be more concise?

Well, I am of course gonna turn them down, but what do I tell them? I am awkward enough with women as is, so how do I explain that although they are quite lovely, and had been hoping for my help for a while, I can't do it now?

I feel extremely bad as well.

[Pyrian]

Wait, what? How did you get this far without ever discussing process? :smallconfused:

[Pika...]

Wait, what? How did you get this far without ever discussing process? :smallconfused:

I did, and we laughed about it. I really believe at this point they did not buy a word of what I was saying about still waiting.

[Dr. Bath]

http://www.fertilityplus.org/faq/homeinsem.html

One of them is a nurse/works at a hospital. I thought she was getting a syringe.

And I am not sure if this counts as a 'relationship", or I did not until ten minutes ago...

Relationships come in many forms, from friendship and even aquiantances. Maybe 'social interactions woes and advice' would be a better name.

Anyway, if you know you're going to let them down then just say so, they might be a bit upset, but if they have any respect for your opinions they be fine with it. And if they don't it's still not up to them what you do or do not do.

[Haruki-kun]

I really believe at this point they did not buy a word of what I was saying about still waiting.

Their mistake. So you have to point it out.

"I'm sorry, ladies, but I was being serious." It's gonna be awkward, but there's just no way around it. Either that or go through with it.

[Fawkes]

Wow, only chance a guy like me would ever get at a threesome, and I have to turn it down.

I hate you so freakin' much right now.

Alternatively,

http://instanttrap.com/trap.jpg (http://instanttrap.com/)

[Pika...]

Relationships come in many forms, from friendship and even aquiantances. Maybe 'social interactions woes and advice' would be a better name.

Anyway, if you know you're going to let them down then just say so, they might be a bit upset, but if they have any respect for your opinions they be fine with it. And if they don't it's still not up to them what you do or do not do.


Their mistake. So you have to point it out.

"I'm sorry, ladies, but I was being serious." It's gonna be awkward, but there's just no way around it. Either that or go through with it.

Thank you both.

I swallowed my fear, and called them back.

It seems they are of the mindset "so what is he getting out of this" right now?

I reassured them that ltting me be a part of the kid'slife was worth more to me than a bar gold, and it seems things are back on (thank you folks!). The spouse will get the necessary instruments.


Odd thing though...

I get another bombshell. After they hear that and the conversation seemed near closing, they tell me they are "'now OK" letting me know that the mother-to-be's cousin was "begging" to be connected to me. They want to know if I can help her as well. I said I would like to meet her, and then asked if it was OK with her that I needed a year or two to get my "feet wet" with this one/couple. I was sure the last part was a dealbreaker, but they immediately said "no, that is perfect for her!".


ps., Paperwork will be signed tomorrow! Thank for the advice there guys/gals!



I hate you so freakin' much right now.

Alternatively,

<snip>

Why? Due to my luck, or due to my self-doubt?

I am debating whether to get an ego boost from this, or the opposite. LoL.


ps. I swear, you have needed to use that image on me quite often...

[Cobra_Ikari]

Hun's kinda a bad one for people drawing that sort of conclusion. What with its especial connotations of sexual propriety.

Which is why women are usually most offended if they're going to be offended by being called Honey or something of that calibre.

Hmm... Though you are in the American South... So it should actually be less intense or pervasive than/as the rest of the nation...


And, yes, there are people who are I've personally been able to say I love without specifying what type of love it was and have them understand that I wasn't talking about getting into their pants. I believe most people who could say they loved someone else have already established a sufficiently colored rapport to be able to do so.


Is this little sister the one that was mentioned between 1-3 months ago that is a minor, something like 16 soon to be 17? :smallconfused: And/or the one that you had previously mentioned as a viable alternative to her if things didn't work out?

Yeah, I'd clarify that it's a Southern hun, and not a camp gay hun. I think there's a difference? I mean, it seems better than my dad...he calls everyone "sweetie", which always sounded a bit condescending to me...but then, most of the people he's talking to are patients, so...*shrugs*

And it is the same little sister. She's 17. And my friend had joked about it, I just hadn't taken him seriously at the time, but...after spending a lot more time with her... >.>

[Dr. Bath]

I've always thought 'chuck' and/or 'duck' (pronounced chouk and do-ck) were pretty good, but you do have to be northern and motherly to pull it off, I think.

@Cobra: Hmm Hmm. Well that's bordering the unsavoury.

[Coidzor]

Huh. Never heard of either of those. ...Well, I've heard of people nicknaming others Chuck, like the diminutive of Charles, but I thought that was an eccentricity of a couple of characters rather than an actual regionalism(? that the word I'm looking for?). Then again, the pond does keep some things from being exposed to us...

Ahh, ephebophiles.

I'm not sure when my brain made the mental switch, but now I want to pinch the cheeks of attractive minors rather than, y'know, pinch their cheeks. It's kind of disturbing to want to act like a stereotypical grandma.

Then again, it might be a defense mechanism I've picked up from being hit on by 16 year old girls, in order to come up with some kind of response to get them to leave me alone other than appearing creepy by responding to their baiting in the way that they're trying to get a response.

[sparkyinbozo]

Valentine's Day seems like a good day to post this. Would mainly like to share the story, but welcome any advice on where to go from here.

This guy and I have been talking online for a couple years now, and this last summer we finally got to meet when he came to my area. Distance was the big issue separating us. He's mentioned once or twice interest in a relationship, but otherwise it's been friendly banter. We went camping for a week, and I went to his house to see him a few times over the fall and winter. There's a good chance I'll be moving to his area for unrelated reasons in about 6 months.

Nothing physical happened during the camping, but I fell for his great personality. We give each other a lot of crap, and he's definitely of the "men don't do outward feelings" subtype. When I came up to visit, I told him of my attraction and made a couple moves. He'd kiss me back when I tried (but with a reluctance that I'm not sure was real or playful) but not go any further when I tried a few times. He'd still cuddle in bed and whatnot, though. I know he's been hurt bad in a past relationship, but I was a little frustrated. He did ask me if I was sad we hadn't done anything, citing a low sex drive on his part.

For a long time I wasn't sure what to do, and trying to bring it up to him at the time only got me the "I'm not sure what to think" response. I was conflicted between him being flat-out not interested, scared of being hurt, or not wanting to get hopes up and if I was still interested in him.

As for myself, I've made peace and moved on a bit from hoping it happens to a more "it's all good" PoV, but I dislike not knowing the actual reasons or potential, you know? Thanks for reading.

[Sir Dayne]

Right.. I don't mean to divert attention away from the nice fellow above me, in fact I'd appreciate feedback getting to him first, but I need to get this off my back. Any advise, or even criticism, would help a lot.

I'm still relatively young (19 starting today), and I've only experienced two serious relationships in my life. Both were long distance over MMO games, and my most recent one that has been going on for nearly two years, with frequent visits and contact, has ended around last September. She wants to see other people closer to her, rather than only having me a few days every few months. We still have very strong feelings for each other, but she is set on being a 'proper' girlfriend, which means knowing how to act (and what it's like) to have a closer significant other that she can see daily. I somewhat understood at first.. though I was still very reluctant and argumentative, until she made the implication that this was so that if we get together in the future, she will be much more committed and ready for something long term. Will it end in marriage? Maybe, not counting my dice. I Still have many years to even contemplate that, I swore not to rush into anything.

Now then, it's been many months since we agreed to see other people, and it was recently she found someone.. from what I understand from other friends, she is very attached to. I still talk to her on and off.. I still feel her treating me like an incredibly close friend, but I feel so.. human. I still have not found a single person since then, after honestly looking.. but I want her to be happy. Yet I find so little motivation, without the hope of being with her again. My greatest weakness is how helpless I am without a significant other, someone to share an attachment to, a partner, whatever you call it. This caused me a huge deal of anguish with my first relationship because I thought it could never end (another reason I agreed to break up with my latest, to amend this error). But I seriously can't see my future alone, I just don't see the point.. All this plus the fact I am very certain I do love her. She is kind, supportive, yet flawed but we have helped each other so much in our two years, improving the other. I can honestly see a future with her, if we remain open minded, honest, and improved ourselves, all of which was present in our two years. I'm going to school for a good job, prepared to save money to move closer and do everything for her.

But the complication is her new boyfriend.. I don't know if it's my place to tell her all of this. To tell her how I feel, how much I'd want to be with her again.. Even if she understands, I can't let her (nor would she) break up with someone only because she wants to see someone else. I was hoping she would find someone, let her experience a real relationship, and it could end so we can get back.. but I fear if that will ever happen. Even if it's inevitable, my well-being and school work is starting to suffer. I really wish I could simply "man up", but again, this is my greatest weakness being exploited (I was so much worse a few years ago).

Any advice, or even acknowledgments, are appreciated.

[sparkyinbozo]

Right.. I don't mean to divert attention away from the nice fellow above me, in fact I'd appreciate feedback getting to him first, but I need to get this off my back. Any advise, or even criticism, would help a lot.

First off, happy birthday! Maybe because you were kind, I can offer my advice?

The bad news: It sucks more than...well, almost anything, to see the one you love with another person, and happy for it. And, even though you're young, it still seems like a relationship dead-end. It's going to hurt seeing or thinking of them for a while now. In the end, you have to put value on how you care for her as a person, and for her happiness. She may or may not come back, but it's probably best in the long run to assume not. And yes, she is hitting a weak spot in your armor.

The good news: It will stop hurting, eventually. It is a matter of loving this person enough to let her go, and realizing that the love will be around even after she is gone. Falling into a pit of despair is normal, assuming it's not for a long time (>6 weeks), and even then it's okay to be sad about this topic. It sounds like you have a lot going for you - you are young, know your weaknesses & strengths, write well, and sound quite responsible. That's very rare to find.

The advice: Do be prepared to save money, go to school, and keep putting yourself out there. Don't make choices that would be bad and isolate you just to be with her without long thought and advice from friends/family, and if you do, add in contingency plans if it doesn't work out (e.g., signing a 6-month lease instead of a year).

[Cobra_Ikari]

Huh. Never heard of either of those. ...Well, I've heard of people nicknaming others Chuck, like the diminutive of Charles, but I thought that was an eccentricity of a couple of characters rather than an actual regionalism(? that the word I'm looking for?). Then again, the pond does keep some things from being exposed to us...

Ahh, ephebophiles.

I'm not sure when my brain made the mental switch, but now I want to pinch the cheeks of attractive minors rather than, y'know, pinch their cheeks. It's kind of disturbing to want to act like a stereotypical grandma.

Then again, it might be a defense mechanism I've picked up from being hit on by 16 year old girls, in order to come up with some kind of response to get them to leave me alone other than appearing creepy by responding to their baiting in the way that they're trying to get a response.

Mmm...I wouldn't call myself an ephebophile. She's not attractive because she's young...she's attractive because unless I think about it, I forget she's not my age.

And I realize she scrapes the bottom of the xkcd-approved "1/2 age + 7" rule, which is why I'm in no rush to do anything about my crush.

[Coidzor]

Mmm...I wouldn't call myself an ephebophile. She's not attractive because she's young...she's attractive because unless I think about it, I forget she's not my age.

And I realize she scrapes the bottom of the xkcd-approved "1/2 age + 7" rule, which is why I'm in no rush to do anything about my crush.

Well, I was a bit joking more than than thinking you were evil. Though of course, it's hard to resist ribbing you about it to some extent, as I'm sure you've found from your friends.

As fun as it is to like someone, it sounds especially awkward and unfun, so I wish you luck with wrestling with it.

...and when my brain works I'll address the two of you with new concerns. x.x

[Quincunx]

Yeah, why is there a name-tag if I'm not supposed to use it? . . .

How does a person who chooses to display their own name do so? Answer: in jewelry, in coffee mugs with witty sayings, in a thousand trinkets of personalization--but name tags are imposed upon a person by someone in authority. Until I hear someone's name from their lips, or see it on an individual's adornment and not a uniform, how can I be sure the sharing of names is between people, and not a pact between the corporation and me? I know the power of a name as a tool, but leave the power of that tool in the hands of parents, teachers, and lovers: question what right the corporation has to scatter that power to customers.

A quick trawl of Google shows non-military name tags, the sort used to broadcast one's name instead of to identify casualties, cropping up in the late 1950s-early 1960s for American corporations. I wouldn't be too surprised if this was Dale Carnegie's suggestion applied on a massive scale, once it had had a decade to prove its effectiveness in instant rapport; that was explicitly the reason Disney adopted the first-name-only tag.

[Lycan 01]

Woo! Glad things worked out for you, man. And I personally think its good you weren't willing to compromise your morals and ideals because other people expected you to. It shows integrity, and other impressive words I can't think of right now... :smalltongue:

[Fawkes]

I get another bombshell. After they hear that and the conversation seemed near closing, they tell me they are "'now OK" letting me know that the mother-to-be's cousin was "begging" to be connected to me. They want to know if I can help her as well. I said I would like to meet her, and then asked if it was OK with her that I needed a year or two to get my "feet wet" with this one/couple. I was sure the last part was a dealbreaker, but they immediately said "no, that is perfect for her!".

Pika: Professional Baby Daddy

IT'S A TRAP!

[Syka]

On nametags: As a retail clerk, our name tags are not there to be used in a greeting manner. Our name tags are there so if we do something bad (or good...but this is rarer) that it can be reported.

I'm not joking.

Granted, most people end up asking my name rather than utilizing the name plate, but that's why. Otherwise, it's doubtful many of my customers would know my name.

I also hate them asking if the name on the tag is short for the full version. Yes, it is, but there is a reason I have the short version on there. Because, ya know, that's what I want to be called. :smallannoyed:


Sparky, unfortunately, I'm not sure what to tell you.


Sir, I'll be blunt- you need to distance yourself. Excise contact with her from your life for a month or more and take time away from her. Honestly...her reason just sounds like an excuse, as I don't know anyone whose ever wanted to date someone closer so as to make an LDR 'better' when they move closer. Mainly cause that reasoning is....weird.

As someone whose gone from only LDR's (one was 3 years seeing each other every 6 months; one 15 months seeing each other 2 times a month or so), the move from LDR-only-experience to a 'normal' relationship isn't difficult or weird UNLESS you already have issues.


That said, excising contact with her for a little bit will allow you to move on. Even if you are honestly looking, it sounds like they are all compared to her. You still plan on being with her. Don't. She has another boyfriend, and you can't count on a break up.

It also doesn't mean you will be alone. You are only 19; Oz was 22 when we got together. I know it sounds silly and a little condescending, but I have friends who are in their late twenties and single, for various reasons, and none of them have given up hope. Because you shouldn't. You shouldn't live your life to be in a romantic relationship. You should live your life for YOU and surround yourself by people you care about and vice versa- family, friends, etc. Most people do find partners, and I'm convinced that this mostly occurs when the people are not concentrating on it...IE, when they are busy living for themselves.

[skywalker]

And I realize she scrapes the bottom of the xkcd-approved "1/2 age + 7" rule, which is why I'm in no rush to do anything about my crush.

Dude, you're only like 20, right? This is a non-issue. If you were 21 and she were 18, this would be no big deal. But because she's across some magical legal line, suddenly it becomes a big deal? Note that I don't know the legal situation in... I think you're in Georgia, yes? but anyway, I don't find it strange at all.


How does a person who chooses to display their own name do so? Answer: in jewelry, in coffee mugs with witty sayings, in a thousand trinkets of personalization--but name tags are imposed upon a person by someone in authority. Until I hear someone's name from their lips, or see it on an individual's adornment and not a uniform, how can I be sure the sharing of names is between people, and not a pact between the corporation and me? I know the power of a name as a tool, but leave the power of that tool in the hands of parents, teachers, and lovers: question what right the corporation has to scatter that power to customers.

I would hasten to say it has whatever power the employee has given it, which is to say, that by agreeing to wearing a nametag, you have given that power over, if we're going to speak in such lofty terms.

If I were running a company, I would be interested in employees who are willing to create the kind of atmosphere that comes from sharing names, who are willing to make a transaction of even a few moments a transaction between two people, rather than a server and a customer.


A quick trawl of Google shows non-military name tags, the sort used to broadcast one's name instead of to identify casualties, cropping up in the late 1950s-early 1960s for American corporations. I wouldn't be too surprised if this was Dale Carnegie's suggestion applied on a massive scale, once it had had a decade to prove its effectiveness in instant rapport; that was explicitly the reason Disney adopted the first-name-only tag.

I would think this is exactly what happened. And look at Disney, happiest place on Earth, right? Walt Disney's understanding of the little things made all the difference.

[Koury]

So, I got kicked out of my sisters. Cool beans. So, lets review:

Pros
I have a car.
I have about $900. (This is only a pro in comparison to having $0)

Cons
No job.
No place to live.

So, i don't really know what I'm supposed to do right now. I am at my grandparents right now. They aren't home but I know where they keep the key, so...

[rayne_dragon]

You could live in the car... I know that probably isn't much help, but, at least its somewhere out of the weather. You could try driving out to a small tourist town and getting a job there - it's really easy to get a job in a place like Jasper or Banff where 75% of the population at any time are people on vacation.

[V for Victory]

So we all know how proud I am of lying (please note, we are not going to debate that again because you all can't understand my lifestyle choices and I can't accept change). And as usual everything is going swimmingly with the falsehoods.

However I recently stopped feeling the same emotional bliss when being around my girlfriend as usual (around 3 weeks ago). I don't let on that this is bugging me and I try to continue with business as usual, doing my boyfriend thing. I am begining to think that I wont ever feel the same way as I did before, this leaves me with the option of fake it to make her happy or to keep going with the charade, normally you all would say end it and I would keep lying to her to make her feel better. The problem is I have a close personal friend who I am attracted to, and while that itself is not a problem I am getting more and more emotionally attached to my friend than to my girlfriend.

Recently I was at my friend's house and about half way through "Public Enemies" I realized I was snuggling with her, This was infront of my other friend who was a huge crush on friend A. Now cheating is the worst thing in the world you can do to someone, but ripping away their dreams is almost as bad so I know that for now I can't advance my relationship with the friend to which I am attracted.

So I feel trapped in a bad situation where I can't have what I want because its unethical and I can't leave my bad situation because it would hurt someone.

And to answer your question, no she wont be more hurt if she finds out it was a lie. She will be equally hurt.

Also, once again. NOT debating my methods but instead offering avenues I can take to achieve a less trapped state of mind

[reorith]

V for Victory i do not approve of your methods. yeah, well... i'm not from chicago. that said, ask your close friend out to say a cafe or diner and do that obnoxious flirty stuff that couples do. call your current girlfriend to meet you there while your with her replacement. if you time your moves right, your current girlfriend will show up and get the point. if she confronts you, look her in the eye and then start singing counting crow's long december off of 1997's recovering the satellites. this will work. i guarantee it.

double bonus points, give your now exgf a letter of recommendation and give her phone number to your bro, i see no way in which this will end badly.

[Serpentine]

From experience I can say that it will hurt a LOT to find out 6 months down the track that your boyfriend stopped feeling anything for you months before.
Just end it already. Why are you even still with her?


Koury: I can't help much cuz I don't know anything about where you live, but I would suggest seeing whether your grandparents will let you stay for a while and/or ask friends or other relatives or whatever (and wherever you end up, start right from the very beginning doing things to pull your weight around the house); look up local support services, see if there's any hostels or whatever around; redouble your job-finding efforts.
That's all I've got that might be useful... I'm really sorry to hear that, good luck :smallfrown:

[Destro_Yersul]

V: Just end it. The whole point of your lying in the first place was to give her what you thought she wanted as a means to getting you what you wanted. But now you don't want it anymore. At this point it's best to end it as amicably as you can, move on with your life, and let her move on with hers. I do recommend waiting a short while before making any moves on other close personal friend. You'll both probably need it, and lies or not it's still a jerk move to hook up with someone new immediately after a breakup. Makes it look like you don't care at all, which I'm assuming you think you do.

As an added bonus, this way your lies to the first girl are less likely to come back and bite you. Also, I find it hilarious that a pathological liar is having an ethical dilemma, but that's probably just my love of honesty talking.

[Castaras]

From experience I can say that it will hurt a LOT to find out 6 months down the track that your boyfriend stopped feeling anything for you months before.
Just end it already. Why are you even still with her?


QFT. Letting it drift is the WORST thing you can do. End it now, before you hurt her any more.

[Serpentine]

An extra perspective on it: If you break up with her now, she will be miserable for, say, 6 months (depending on the relationship). If she picks up on the lack of interest (and I suspect it's pretty hard to hide it, no matter how good at lying you are), then she will be be unresolvedly miserable until you break up with her - say, in 6 months - and then miserable for another 6 months afterwards, with the aforementioned extra misery knowing that the last 6 months of your relationship were a lie. So, by prolonging your relationship (her supposed happiness an' all), you'll just be prolonging her misery, and your own.
At least, that's my experience.

[Quincunx]

Castaras, Serpentine: He doesn't care what she feels, so your advice will go unheeded. His concern is to restore his self-image and get what he wants, and what he wants is a clear shot at girl #2.

V for Victory: The traditional way to wuss out (trademark xPancakex--happy you day) is to get the unwanted girl so angry at you that she dumps you. Look at how annoyed we got when you told us explicitly that you'd been lying yourself blue in the face during the entire relationship.

[Destro_Yersul]

Look at how annoyed we got when you told us explicitly that you'd been lying yourself blue in the face during the entire relationship.

He can't tell her that, thought. Girl #1 might tell Girl #2, and that would totally cramp his style, because then he'd have to be much more careful about lying to her too.

[Mando Knight]

However I recently stopped feeling the same emotional bliss when being around my girlfriend as usual (around 3 weeks ago). I don't let on that this is bugging me and I try to continue with business as usual, doing my boyfriend thing. I am begining to think that I wont ever feel the same way as I did before, this leaves me with the option of fake it to make her happy or to keep going with the charade, normally you all would say end it and I would keep lying to her to make her feel better.

And adding this lie to all the others will change things because...?

...Because this one means that you have to deny what you want, which is contrary to the reason you've been lying through your teeth the whole time. Cheating is another form of dishonesty, as is breaking your friend's dreams in order to advance your own. You repeatedly claim you don't care about others trusting you, so why are you even wanting advice on a trust issue?

[skywalker]

However I recently stopped feeling the same emotional bliss when being around my girlfriend as usual (around 3 weeks ago). I don't let on that this is bugging me and I try to continue with business as usual, doing my boyfriend thing. I am begining to think that I wont ever feel the same way as I did before, this leaves me with the option of fake it to make her happy or to keep going with the charade, normally you all would say end it and I would keep lying to her to make her feel better. The problem is I have a close personal friend who I am attracted to, and while that itself is not a problem I am getting more and more emotionally attached to my friend than to my girlfriend.

Time to leave, 007.

If it isn't making you happy, and it's likely not to make you happy in the future, it's best to cut your losses.

If the girl you are more attracted to gives you an out (IE, I would lie to my current girl to make her feel better, but girl B complicates things), then, well, whatever helps you sleep at night. But seriously, the primary purpose of having a relationship is to make you happy. If it's not, then stop. If there's some sort of social thing wrapped around this, that makes it more complicated, especially since my usual advice (living a lie will eventually turn out badly anyway and will suck out your soul in the meantime) doesn't seem to apply to you.

Do it anyway. It will all turn out happier in the end if you do.

Also, I find it slightly strange that you ask advice of people who disagreed so vehemently with your entire mode of interpersonal existence.


Koury: I can't help much cuz I don't know anything about where you live, but I would suggest seeing whether your grandparents will let you stay for a while and/or ask friends or other relatives or whatever (and wherever you end up, start right from the very beginning doing things to pull your weight around the house); look up local support services, see if there's any hostels or whatever around; redouble your job-finding efforts.
That's all I've got that might be useful... I'm really sorry to hear that, good luck :smallfrown:

It says "Tacoma, WA" right there in the little location bar.

[Puppychowguy]

V For Victory

It seems you are more in love with lying than either of the girls. Continue to lie. You will be happy playing some twisted game with both of the girl's feelings. Both girls will then realize that you really do care about them enough to lie to them for their own good. You will be happy and (eventually) they will be happy as well.

[Incompleat]

What's the point, in any case? A relationship is about having someone who you can have absolute trust in and who trusts you absolutely. If I can get mushy for a moment, it's about finding the other part of your soul - but I am not being mushy, it's just a simple statement of fact.

I guess that if you are just after physical pleasure, you could possibly get away with lying - for a while, that is. But, even putting the obvious moral issues aside, you'd be missing out. A lot.

[V for Victory]

Also, I find it slightly strange that you ask advice of people who disagreed so vehemently with your entire mode of interpersonal existence.

Figured it couldn't hurt.

What's the point, in any case? A relationship is about having someone who you can have absolute trust in and who trusts you absolutely. If I can get mushy for a moment, it's about finding the other part of your soul - but I am not being mushy, it's just a simple statement of fact.

I guess that if you are just after physical pleasure, you could possibly get away with lying - for a while, that is. But, even putting the obvious moral issues aside, you'd be missing out. A lot.

Thats a statement of opinion. And the point is when someone can make me happy I want to be with them, but at the same time I dont want to hurt someone needlessly

And the second paragraph is about how/why I lie. Not about the situation itself, which is something I specifically asked to avoid.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Got a curious problem, there is this girl whom I would like to date, the problem is that I am not sure to be a friend first and then try to get into boyfriend material OR going straight on as a potential boyfriend. Right now I am in friend of friend cathergory.
I am going to see her on friday so any advice playgrounders?

[Incompleat]

Thats a statement of opinion. And the point is when someone can make me happy I want to be with them, but at the same time I dont want to hurt someone needlessly

This is not love, by any meaning of the world. If that's how you roll, so be it, but it looks kind of sad to me.

[potatocubed]

So I feel trapped in a bad situation where I can't have what I want because its unethical and I can't leave my bad situation because it would hurt someone.

Unilaterally ending a relationship is like amputating a limb: there's no pleasant way to do it, but there are ways that cause less suffering than others.

The best way is to just man up and dump the girl you don't like. At the very least you'll be freeing her up to date someone who does like her.

[Forever Curious]

V for Victory: It appears that I must agree with the Playground. Although I don't know the details of your relationship (for good reason), I agree with ending the relationship based on what I do know.

HOWEVER, from what I know about the "friend" in question, I don't know how she'll feel about you getting with her (a phrase here which means "forming a relationship with") after breaking up with your girlfriend. I doubt my help would be appreciated, and I have nothing more to add that has not been said.

[snoopy13a]

Got a curious problem, there is this girl whom I would like to date, the problem is that I am not sure to be a friend first and then try to get into boyfriend material OR going straight on as a potential boyfriend. Right now I am in friend of friend cathergory.
I am going to see her on friday so any advice playgrounders?

Go straight in as potential boyfriend. That's always the preferable method.

Trying to be a friend first runs the risk of entering the dreaded "friend zone". This is because acting as a friend first is a passive strategy. Instead, you want to be confident and assertive.

[Forever Curious]

Got a curious problem, there is this girl whom I would like to date, the problem is that I am not sure to be a friend first and then try to get into boyfriend material OR going straight on as a potential boyfriend. Right now I am in friend of friend cathergory.
I am going to see her on friday so any advice playgrounders?

Definitely be a friend first. From what I've observed people are much more comfortable with sliding into relationships after a base friendship has been established.

[Pyrian]

...I am not sure to be a friend first and then try to get into boyfriend material OR going straight on as a potential boyfriend. Right now I am in friend of friend cathergory.I have met women for whom either approach would be far more successful than the other, so it's hard to give an entirely solid answer. Given that unknown, I would say be honest and just ask her out. :smallcool:

[Dusk Eclipse]

Thanks for the advice, well I still got 4-ish days to decide so I'll ponder a bit on it.

[Serpentine]

It says "Tacoma, WA" right there in the little location bar.Here is the entirety of what I know about where he lives:
1. It's in "Tacoma, WA".
2. He's in the US.
3. He's in a state that starts with "W" and has an "A" in it. Washington, maybe?
Yes, that's terribly useful for giving him advice... :smalltongue:

Snoopy: Please see my sig links for what I think of that. Y'know, if you care.

Dusk Eclipse: I know my prefered beginning to a relationship is through friendship, but there's really no reason not to just ask her out. If you're genuinely interested in being friends with her, not just as a means to relationshiphood, then just make the necessary phsychological precautions before asking her out to ensure that a rejection doesn't ruin that opportunity, but don't be shy about letting her know you're interested in more.

[Alarra]

I am not sure to be a friend first and then try to get into boyfriend material OR going straight on as a potential boyfriend.
I would recommend jumping straight to boyfriend. I mean, it will obviously help if you at least know each other a little, complete strangers asking one out can be weird and creepy, but if you have met a couple times and seem to get on well, then yeah, I would say try asking her out.

[Serpentine]

Also, what Alarra said...

[Coidzor]

Yup. Acquaintances have their foot in the door for asking peoples out after all.

[rakkoon]

And you still have that mysterious vibe going on. So ask her out and let her discover you. If you're friends for a while she might pick on the bad stuff before she's in love....or she might fall in love because you are such a great guy. Slightly flirting would help then of course.

I would go for the asking out

[CrimsonAngel]

Held hands for the first time tonight today. :smallredface:

Woo, I typed that without looking at the board, Keyboarding lessons are working.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Update: Followed advice, asked her out and.... got a date this friday:smallbiggrin: thanks all for the advice.

[CrimsonAngel]

Grats. :smallsmile:

[rayne_dragon]

Congrats to both CrimsonAngel and Dusk Eclipse. Always nice to hear good news.

Anyways, I just want to get somethng off my chest. My roommate keeps crying while talking to her boyfriend - both over the phone and in person. I've spoken to both of them about my concern for her, but it's still happening and today makes it three of the past four days. I really wish there was something more I could do, but as far as I can tell I should just mind my own business. I should get a girlfriend of my own so I can be more distracted. :smalltongue:

[Coidzor]

I got hit on by a 17 year old girl today. :smallyuk: This is the 4th one in as many months. :smallfrown:

:smallannoyed: It's kind of making me want to activate my rage face. :smallfurious:

Is this normal? Not the being hit on by so many underaged kids, but the wanting to take an axe to them for insulting me by doing so?

Also, annoyingly enough, I found out that one of the people on the bus that I converse with when I'm heading home at the end of the day is a 10th grader. I'm sort of weirded out by that. Especially because I met her because she joined in on a conversation about whether one was a breast meat or thigh meat kind of person.

[Inhuman Bot]

Sigh.

You (all) know (But not reallyy, which is why I'm explaining things. >.>),but I feel like I don't even know how to start a relationship, even as friends with people.

I project a dislikeable attitude, but that's because I'm worried about getting hurt.

So, realizing my problems, I turn to the playground for a few basic peices of advice in general. :smallsmile:

[Coidzor]

Hmm. Describe this dislikeable attitude that you project.

I believe our first step is to work at dismantling this and substituting a more easy going self image and a warmer public face.

Smiling more can be a start.

[Inhuman Bot]

Hmm. Describe this dislikeable attitude that you project.

I believe our first step is to work at dismantling this and substituting a more easy going self image and a warmer public face.

Smiling more can be a start.

Well..

Frankly, I act in a stereotypically emo/evil way.

When I wanted to keep my distance from people, it was great, but now that I don't, I'm lost.

So far, I think the only points for me are... I have good hygene, and do try to smile. :/

[Coidzor]

Well, I'm not sure how exactly evil and emo are conflated with you. That's going to need some more explanation, after all.

If you're stabbing people, try to cut down on that or even quit entirely if at all possible.

Similarly, killing and stealing from people are probably just not good ideas in general, even disregarding wanting to make more friends.

What are your general interests and hobbies?

[Inhuman Bot]

Similarly, killing and stealing from people are probably just not good ideas in general, even disregarding wanting to make more friends.

Crap.



What are your general interests and hobbies?

Welll.... :smalltongue:

Going back into all seriousness, I'd say I seem rather morbid and sadistic to everyone. Nothing to liven up a conversation like starting to talk about how glorious it would be for the streets to run red with the blood of the innocent, and doing so by accident. :smallsigh:



If you're stabbing people, try to cut down on that or even quit entirely if at all possible.


Sorta aiming for the second one.

I'm less randomally violently assailing people who I see, and more solveing my problems with completely inproportionate violence.

I think the issue might be... Ah, no, that's for another thread. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133977)

[Syka]

Yay success stories!


I second the smiling. I get some pretty unhappy customers at work- I mean, more often than not they're in there getting medicine (for themselves or loved ones) or hurrying to work/school/somewhere. I've found that when I smile at my customers, they treat me far better than when I'm not smiling. Even when I'm feeling really crappy, like I was tonight, I force a smile and I love seeing otherwise unhappy looking people give a genuine smile.



Also, helping Sis plan her wedding, which is kinda fun and mostly stressful. I still have no desire for a wedding (omg stress), nor kids (I call movies like Couples Retreat "birth control"). Yet I'm having the yearnings for marriage. This perplexes me. :smallconfused: I don't like this feeling, particularly. Mayhaps it has something to do with us moving to a different city in just over a year, which necessitates moving in together, as well as the uncertainty of us knowing (literally) no one else. Mayhaps it's my sister AND best friend getting married within a year of each other (well, probably, anyway).

I mean, I know I want to get married SOME DAY. But that day was far, far away in my mind. Idiot Mind is trying to bring it closer.

Help me smack it away. Please? I know Oz doesn't want to hear about it yet, lol. He got the most hilarious look when I mentioned Domestic Partnership (which I will persist in talking about eventually because it's probably a good idea given the aforementioned move).



ETA: You shall learn in time how to avoid saying things that will alienate people. Eventually, you'll also learn of those lucky few who will relish it. You should have heard the first conversation my boyfriend and one of my best friends had when I first introduced them. It disturbed other people whom we've related the story too. Disturbed them deeply.

[skywalker]

I got hit on by a 17 year old girl today. :smallyuk: This is the 4th one in as many months. :smallfrown:

:smallannoyed: It's kind of making me want to activate my rage face. :smallfurious:

Is this normal? Not the being hit on by so many underaged kids, but the wanting to take an axe to them for insulting me by doing so?

Also, annoyingly enough, I found out that one of the people on the bus that I converse with when I'm heading home at the end of the day is a 10th grader. I'm sort of weirded out by that. Especially because I met her because she joined in on a conversation about whether one was a breast meat or thigh meat kind of person.

Why do you find it insulting? I like to think I can compete with those slick teenagers with their Abercrombie and their parents' credit cards...

Anyway, number-age is just a number. Once you get into high school, there are so many varying experiences people could have had. I'm not saying sleep with high schoolers, but it wouldn't bother me to find out I speak to a 10th grader on the bus without being aware of it. People who are 40 speak to me all the time, and that's a much larger age difference than 21 to... 15? Ish? I understand that Coidzor isn't 21 like me, but he's also not 34, is he? Well, he could be. But I doubts it.

Anyway (again), just a number. Don't worry so much.

[Aedilred]

You (all) know (But not reallyy, which is why I'm explaining things. >.>),but I feel like I don't even know how to start a relationship, even as friends with people.

I project a dislikeable attitude, but that's because I'm worried about getting hurt.
I used to be the same. In fact, I still am, but I went through a brief period in the middle where I tried really hard not to be- that ended after someone I trusted turned out to be a complete tool.

When it comes down to it, though, you need relationships (of all kinds) and while a degree of caution is to be recommended, it's not worth not having any just in case some turn out to be duds. Unfortunately, I can't offer a huge amount of advice on how to address the issue- when I went through my more friendly phase, I just gritted my teeth and got on with the job of making introductions. It helped that during that time I was frequently thrust into situations where I had no choice- in fact it's largely because of that that I forced myself to do it in the first place.

In general, though, relationships just develop, without your necessarily having to put a huge amount of trust or commitment, or even effort, in at the start. If you find you get on well with someone the chances are you'll spend more and more time with them until you find you know them quite well. There's no real infodump expected at any stage (unless you're starting a romantic relationship with someone you don't know already, I suppose), so you don't need to force things too hard.

The key thing, though, is to put yourself in situations where you actually meet people. You won't make any friends sitting at home. The earlier question about your hobbies and interests is relevant; see if there are any related clubs, classes, societies, groups, whatever, nearby that you could attend. In fact it's in these situations where you're likely to find like-minded people with whom you're likely to get on well (and may even share your social inhibitions). It can be intimidating at first, but there's no shortcut there I'm afraid.

Like other people said, try to smile... if you're not smiling then you have to be witty to make up for it, and that can be difficult to judge. If you find that uncomfortable, then at least smile when you meet or are introduced to someone. Pay attention to them during this period as it will affect their initial opinion of you. Posture and body language are important, too- try to look "open" rather than "closed" (for instance, try to keep your arms unfolded and your hands out of your pockets.) Look people in the eye, at least for a while, rather than looking at the floor. Try to stand up straight, and to speak clearly rather than mumble. If you're in a situation where it's relevant/legal, try offering to buy drinks- not as an ice-breaker, but if used at an appropriate time it's a great way to turn a brief, awkward introduction into a longer conversation- it also means they'll take away a more positive impression of you. Pay attention to what your conversational partners say, don't interrupt or talk over them, and try not to correct them unless they're saying something that's manifestly false or outright offensive. Try not to butt in on any private conversations unless a cast-iron opportunity presents itself.

It may all sound pretty basic, but it does actually make a huge difference.

[Jacklu]

I am very very lonely. That is all.

[Coidzor]

Why do you find it insulting?

Partially there's always this part of me that thinks they're doing it just to make fun of me for being old. And that part of me wants to slap silly children for bothering me over matters so trifling. The other part of why it's insulting to me I haven't been able to determine. Which is kind of annoying and confuzzling.

Actually, I am of 21 years of age or so. Not usually so full of rage though. :/ I think that's just a flare up...

[Proven_Paradox]

Well, wrestling on this particular roller coaster alone has gotten me nowhere, and it's starting to eat at me, so I'mma enlist some help. In two words, "it's complicated." Long story spoilered for the sake of those seeking advise rather than distributing it.
So, here's the general situation. I've a good friend, call her Sue for the sake of discussion. We're online friends; never met face-to-face. We made plans to meet once or twice, but we live far enough away that such would require non-trivial travel expenses, and that's always fallen through. Unless she's poked around on my Facebook (which she probably has, which is okay) she's never even seen a picture of me. I've described myself to her but that only goes so far. All that said, we've been good friends for over five years, and I wouldn't hesitate to call her my best friend today. We have each others' phone numbers, but cost concerns, signal problems, and general self-consciousness regarding how much I hate my voice relegates our conversations mostly to IM.

With that bit of background said, the situation (which isn't quite what you're probably thinking it is, but at the same time kind of is, sort of). I've always been 'just a friend.' She had been long-distance dating another guy for something like two years. Unlike with us, she went out to meet this guy a few times during summer/Christmas breaks. From what she told me of the relationship, it was very close, very intimate. Seemed a decent guy from the few meetings we had over WoW. A couple of months ago, he suddenly broke it off. From what she told me, she would've sooner expected a proposal than a breakup at the time. I never got an explanation for why they broke it off, but it seems insensitive of me to press for such information. I have vague suspicions based on this and that, but they're irrelevant and expressing them will only make things worse.

She's taken it really, really hard. As in, "I was/still am seriously worried she might try to harm herself" hard. A few other issues going on in her life which she has not given me the full story on already had her stressed the hell out. From what she's told me, the 'support' she's getting from her family is "I told you so" and "Well, now you can date again," and other bull**** along the same lines. She's come to me for reassurance a few times, but the best I've been able to manage is “It sucks now, I know. Tell me if there's anything I can do for you. It will get better.” The truth of this statement or lack thereof does little to make this feel anything but utterly inadequate.

I have zero experience to draw from here. I've been in spirally depressions before, but they were due to personal failures where I had no one to blame but myself. (I got over them. She helped.) My experience with romantic endeavors is limited to a few brief, comical episodes that I would find hilarious if they weren't so damned personal, but that's not what I'm here about. I have no idea what she's feeling right now, and no idea what I can do to help. She's been single for a couple of months now, and if anything she's gotten worse. I hate seeing her do this to herself. So, my primary question to more socially-savvy members of the Playground is thus: What, if anything, can I do to help?

Part two!
This part is more... unclear. We're getting into what you probably thought I was going to talk about when I started here.

She and I are friend, and ONLY friends (as I've had to remind my somewhat-overbearingly-grandchild-desiring mother). Were things different in X, Y, and Z ways, would I want to be more than friends with her? I think so. Would she? I honestly have no idea. However, I value her friendship. If attempting to move to the next level with her risks that friendship while letting it go does not, I'm going to let it go. Up until this breakdown, I was perfectly happy with the status quo. We've never talked about it before, and instinct tells me that broaching the subject would be a point of no return I'm not willing to cross.

Even if a long-lasting and valuable friendship weren't an issue, I think trying a relationship would end poorly for both of us. For one, I lack the patience for a long-distance relationship, which is our only option at the moment. Beyond that, I think we have different endpoints in mind. She's mentioned in passing before that she might want to start a family at some point. I don't even like the idea of getting married. I absolutely don't want kids: I'd make a horrible father. If I thought we could handle the inevitable breakup, I might be willing to go for it and just enjoy the time we'd have, but I have no idea how I'd react to it, and I know that she would do poorly after seeing her now. I just can't see it ending well for either of us; it'd cause more hurt than happiness.

But after a conversation tonight, I'm confused. It may well be that she's just asking me to direct her to some flash games or something to take her mind off matters, but it looks more like she's trying to get me to ask her out. Alternatively, just stressed out and looking for a less specific way out. Stuff like “I have to be happy, find me something,” “I want to find something, to make me happy, right now.” I kind of froze up (“I wish I could,” “What can I do then?”). I don't know how to interpret that. I'm so far out of my element here that I don't even know where to start. Was she trying to tell me something there? Or am I just projecting? If she was, what the hell do I do about it? Am I just stressing over stressed out words that don't have nearly as much meaning as I think? I know I have a tendency to overthink things, but if I just go with my gut nothing's going to get done. /headdesk

A side note to people on this site who I game with (you know who you are)
You know exactly who and what I'm talking about. She does not browse these forums. I'm trusting you to not direct her attention to this post. Coming to others for advise like this is embarrassing enough for me; her knowing I did so would be a million times worse, and if I'm wrong about the vibes I've been getting from her it would potentially make an already awkward situation a lot worse. It took me a while to convince myself to post this openly--please don't make me regret that.

So, yeah, this post got eaten by database backup after I posted it, making me write most of it a second time. I'm tired and frustrated and having second thoughts about posting this at all. Time to just hit post reply and be done with it.

[Syka]

For the first issue, let her talk to you. Let her know she can talk to you. But don't make her talk about it to you. Have discussions that don't revolve around the demise of her relationship but rather what you guys would have talked about before. You've already expressed condolences and now it's up to her if she wants to talk about it. Heck, one thing my friends did that helped was watching movies with me and generally hanging out to keep my mind off of it. You guys can find a movie to stream or rent the same movie and watch it at the same time whilst IMing or something. Basically- do stuff that doesn't mention her relationship or ex.

As for the second issue, it sounds like she just wants distraction. It could be deeper, and I don't know her or your guys' relationship, but it sounds like is distraction seeking rather than relationship seeking. But that's me, personally. I know it's different for everyone, but the last thing on my mind was finding a new partner, but finding other things to focus on was at the top of my list of things to do. Even if she is looking for a romantic relationship with her, just say no. Nicely, but say no. You already know you guys aren't compatible in some pretty huge ways and unless one of you changes your mind BEFORE a relationship, it's likely to breed some resentment and end ugly. It could end OK, but likely not since the issues it would end over are pretty big.


Good luck. :)

[skywalker]

Some advice for the future. This:


A side note to people on this site who I game with (you know who you are)
You know exactly who and what I'm talking about. She does not browse these forums. I'm trusting you to not direct her attention to this post. Coming to others for advise like this is embarrassing enough for me; her knowing I did so would be a million times worse, and if I'm wrong about the vibes I've been getting from her it would potentially make an already awkward situation a lot worse. It took me a while to convince myself to post this openly--please don't make me regret that.

Should be at the top, in bold. Not tucked away in a spoiler below your explanation of woe/problem.


Well, wrestling on this particular roller coaster alone has gotten me nowhere,

Also, wrestling on a roller coaster sounds awesome.

[Forever Curious]

I'm no expert, but I have a comment...


She's come to me for reassurance a few times, but the best I've been able to manage is “It sucks now, I know. Tell me if there's anything I can do for you. It will get better.” The truth of this statement or lack thereof does little to make this feel anything but utterly inadequate.


Given the situation as I have read it, it seems that's really the only thing you can do. People come and people go, for better or worse. If she's letting herself be affected to the point of hurting herself, then the best thing you can do is just be there for her.

The only person that can REALLY help her is herself, sadly. And if she chooses not to...:smallfrown:

[zeratul]

I got hit on by a 17 year old girl today. :smallyuk: This is the 4th one in as many months. :smallfrown:

:smallannoyed: It's kind of making me want to activate my rage face. :smallfurious:

Is this normal? Not the being hit on by so many underaged kids, but the wanting to take an axe to them for insulting me by doing so?

Also, annoyingly enough, I found out that one of the people on the bus that I converse with when I'm heading home at the end of the day is a 10th grader. I'm sort of weirded out by that. Especially because I met her because she joined in on a conversation about whether one was a breast meat or thigh meat kind of person.

17 is AOC in most states isn't it? They might just genuinely be hitting on you, as generally people are looking forward to being 21 more than they are going "oh my god 21 is sooooo old" and as such it seems odd to think that they are mocking your age in some way.:smallconfused:

[Dr.Epic]

Hey. I posted a while back and doubt anyone remembers what I said (I'll quote it in a spoiler), but anyway same issue with the chick. I wondering if I should friend her on facebook. I don't see any problem with that in my mind but then again I am paranoid and am not entirely sure how that would come off (I tend to over think things).

So I'm not accustom to sharing my intimate love life to complete strangers on the internet but then again I'm not accustom to sharing my intimate love life with anyone so maybe the fact it's anonymous makes it easier. I've put my problem in spoilers for reasons of length:

So there's this girl I like and I want to ask her out but there's kind of this problem - well two problems if you count my wallet being empty - but the main issue here is our current relationship. I barely know this girl but I've hung out with her enough times to know she's funny, quirky, and just pleasant to be around. I met her freshmen year and we only really hung out at lunch with a group of people. I met her through friends and even back then I didn't really talk to her that much but I still had a crush on her.

So this year I got to know her a little bit better. I'm hanging out with her clique more and were becoming friends but then something weird happens. Sometime around, I don't even remember, let's say late October, she just kind of gives me the cold shoulder. Like she would wave to me if we should pass each other on campus. I'm not really sure why. Maybe she just didn't see me or I had done something to offend her. I don't know.

So it went on like that for the rest of the fall semester but a little while ago right after winter break I bumped into her at the school cafeteria and we had a brief conversation. Nothing real major just what classes we were taking and such. I even didn't sit with her or anything that day. I kind of confused by this. I did see her a few weeks back one Friday night when I was hanging out with people. Maybe that had something to do with it. She rarely goes to those things. I don't what to think of that.

Anyway, I'm just starting to ramble I guess. I just really want some evaluation of my situation and maybe some advice about how to strengthen the relationship. One of my friends is closer to her than I am and I thought about asking him for help. We're planning on being each others roommates next year so I'm sure he would help if I asked. Also her roommate is in one of my classes so if you think there's a potential way that could somehow lead me to her let me know.

Thanks to anyone who helps.

[V for Victory]

Sigh.

You (all) know (But not reallyy, which is why I'm explaining things. >.>),but I feel like I don't even know how to start a relationship, even as friends with people.

I project a dislikeable attitude, but that's because I'm worried about getting hurt.

So, realizing my problems, I turn to the playground for a few basic peices of advice in general. :smallsmile:

Find the social clique that most fits you. Look in the mirror, hard. Realize how you dress, act, think and what you think about. Then just be around those people, you don't have to say anything if your not ready to yet or if you think you'll say something to get you in trouble. Sooner or later you'll say a few things. They'll laugh or agree and then they'll talk to you. Then you'll have freinds.

I had to do this everytime I moved to a new school, I had to scan the lunch room looking for the middle class kids who have overprotective parents and like the anrgiest music you can find.


So there's this girl I like and I want to ask her out but there's kind of this problem - well two problems if you count my wallet being empty - but the main issue here is our current relationship. I barely know this girl but I've hung out with her enough times to know she's funny, quirky, and just pleasant to be around. I met her freshmen year and we only really hung out at lunch with a group of people. I met her through friends and even back then I didn't really talk to her that much but I still had a crush on her.

So this year I got to know her a little bit better. I'm hanging out with her clique more and were becoming friends but then something weird happens. Sometime around, I don't even remember, let's say late October, she just kind of gives me the cold shoulder. Like she would wave to me if we should pass each other on campus. I'm not really sure why. Maybe she just didn't see me or I had done something to offend her. I don't know.

So it went on like that for the rest of the fall semester but a little while ago right after winter break I bumped into her at the school cafeteria and we had a brief conversation. Nothing real major just what classes we were taking and such. I even didn't sit with her or anything that day. I kind of confused by this. I did see her a few weeks back one Friday night when I was hanging out with people. Maybe that had something to do with it. She rarely goes to those things. I don't what to think of that.

Anyway, I'm just starting to ramble I guess. I just really want some evaluation of my situation and maybe some advice about how to strengthen the relationship. One of my friends is closer to her than I am and I thought about asking him for help. We're planning on being each others roommates next year so I'm sure he would help if I asked. Also her roommate is in one of my classes so if you think there's a potential way that could somehow lead me to her let me know.

Thanks to anyone who helps.

You seem to want to beat around the bush, why dont you just pull her aside one day and tell her, its obviously bugging you and people lie. Therefore the more people you have involved increase your chances of being lied too.

My advice: Don't ask your friend, don't ask her roommate. Ask her

[npc revolution]

@Jacklu:
Just letting you know that your post hasn't gone unread. I hope you become less lonely soon, my PM box is open if you wanna chat.

*hugs*

[Dr.Epic]

You seem to want to beat around the bush, why dont you just pull her aside one day and tell her, its obviously bugging you and people lie. Therefore the more people you have involved increase your chances of being lied too.

My advice: Don't ask your friend, don't ask her roommate. Ask her

The problem is I barely see her and thus couldn't. My recent post asked should I friend her on facebook so I could have some form of communication and I worried about how that might come off.

[Forever Curious]

The problem is I barely see her and thus couldn't. My recent post asked should I friend her on facebook so I could have some form of communication and I worried about how that might come off.

If I'm understanding correctly, you two were pretty decent friends...and then suddenly not. Seems logical to me that you should talk directly to her: miscommunication between third-parties if never fun. Adding her on Facebook strikes me as a pretty decent idea. It will allow you to talk to her privately and discuss the situation.

But that's just my 2 cp.

[The Duke]

Personally I would avoid online communication if you could. It tends to be impersonal and has a icky feeling about it, particularly when dealing with sensitive issues. However if you have no alternate method it's worth a shot.

[skywalker]

Hey guys.

Skywalker is newly single.

I think it's for the best, in the end, but still sad.

Can someone remind me that I'm happy to be single, please?

[Forever Curious]

Hey guys.

Skywalker is newly single.

I think it's for the best, in the end, but still sad.

Can someone remind me that I'm happy to be single, please?

Reason's why being single is fun:

-ability to talk to other girls (or guys, if so inclined) without any sense of guilt.

-more time to spend on personal pursuits.

-(see above for money).

-Less responsibility (in this case, your girlfriend's happiness).

-if you broke up, it was meant to be.

[Dr.Epic]

Personally I would avoid online communication if you could. It tends to be impersonal and has a icky feeling about it, particularly when dealing with sensitive issues. However if you have no alternate method it's worth a shot.

I doubt I would talk to her online but it would let me become closer to her.

[The Duke]

I doubt I would talk to her online but it would let me become closer to her.

Not sure I follow your train of thought here?

How would you without communicating* become closer to her just by adding her on facebook. I mean sure you can read her status but I don't think that will really bring you closer, might give you more knowledge about her though.

* or are you merely saying you wouldn't use the chat function, but might respond to stati and the like. As I could see how that might make you closer.

[Kjata]

Alright, so I have never had a girlfriend I actually liked.

The closest I ever came ended badly last Halloween, which I posted about in the last RW&A thread. Suffice to say, it involved driving under the influence and me just being a drunken dumbass, which is regrettable but whatever.

But this is literally the ONLY GIRL I pursued that I liked in THREE YEARS. Big deal, some of you might say. Life carries on. But I am only 17, so this is a damn good portion of my pubescent years.

This isn't too say I haven't pursued other girls, or been unsuccessful. I've had a couple girlfriends and a few flings, nothing to brag about, but its not like I can't get girls. It's just lust drives this and not any real feelings.

It's not even like i'm a lusty person. Far from it. I have never had sex, and have turned down a girl for it. I just don't see the point in senselessly ****ing somebody's brains out if I don't like them as a person. I'm a very mental and emotional person. All my hobbies are mental, I have never physically craved cigarettes or alcohol. To me, my body is just a vessel for my brain (and lungs and liver...:smalltongue:).

Which is why I have so little luck with girls. The first girl I ever really liked screwed up my psyche horribly.

I liked her for a while (this was middle school, and I was extremely lacking in social skills). I fantasized about dating her. All in all, I was extremely lost in how to deal with this. Eventually, I balls up and asked her out.

Yes, she says. Awesome. Wow, I had no idea that was going to happen. Nice.

Oh wait, she says, I thought you wanted to hang out. Never mind then.

Ooookaaay... this sucks. Whatever though, I'll be fine in a week or so.

Then it got bad. I was made fun of SO GOD DAMN much for this. More than when I was the geeky warhammer player (about a year prior to this, on the outside anyway). It was miserable. Those bastards destroyed my self esteem to the point where 3 years later and when I am fairly popular (moreso than most of them ever were) I still haven't recovered.

Here's the kicker. 6 months later, the bitch (yes she was a bitch, and other words I can't mention here) gets me arrested. Yes, I was doing something illegal. But, it was the epitome of non-violent crime (marijuana). About a year later, she starts drinking. Where are your morals now? Alcohol is worse for you in EVERY SINGLE WAY except for the legality part (don't try to argue this with me, researching drugs is a bit of a hobby of mine).

So Playgrounders, there is my story. Mind, she did inadvertantly improve my life. The personality I adopted to be in somewhat the same social circle as her eventually became my real personality, which led to a rise in popularity. Mind, it did lead to alcohol, but at the moment that's a big plus.

Any thoughts or advice on what I should do about this issue?

[rayne_dragon]

Any thoughts or advice on what I should do about this issue?

Do nothing and let time heal your wounds a little, possibly see a professional if you think they can help your self-esteem any (I'm usually against this myself, but even I have to admit they can sometimes help). As everyone always tells me, someone else will come along eventually.

[Syka]

Kjata, stop dating.

Seriously, now. Stop looking at that girl over there, and get on with your life.

I mean, really, if you don't even like the people you are dating, what's the point? To have a date? Tooootally not worth it. If you think sleeping with the person isn't worth it if you don't like them, than being in any sort of relationship isn't worth it.

Not too mention, you may be killing your reputation with the girls you would like to date. Like Oz had gained a reputation amongst our friends for getting bored easily when he was dating girls. I didn't find out about this until later on, but a mutual friend of ours was concerned that he might hurt me because of it. You could be shooting yourself in the foot.



Anyway, my main reason for saying to step out of the dating scene is you haven't really given yourself a chance to get over what the first chick did to you. Until you can accept that, yes, it did happen and yes, it did suck, but no, not all chicks are like that, you'll probably keep to dating girls you simply lust after rather than actually like.

This is not healthy.

So take a break and if you find a girl you actually enjoy as a person, go for it. But think with the head up top, since it seems that that's the sort of relationship you are going for. The other one ain't going to help you with that.

[Forever Curious]

Kjata, stop dating.

Seriously, now. Stop looking at that girl over there, and get on with your life.

I mean, really, if you don't even like the people you are dating, what's the point? To have a date? Tooootally not worth it. If you think sleeping with the person isn't worth it if you don't like them, than being in any sort of relationship isn't worth it.

Not too mention, you may be killing your reputation with the girls you would like to date. Like Oz had gained a reputation amongst our friends for getting bored easily when he was dating girls. I didn't find out about this until later on, but a mutual friend of ours was concerned that he might hurt me because of it. You could be shooting yourself in the foot.



Anyway, my main reason for saying to step out of the dating scene is you haven't really given yourself a chance to get over what the first chick did to you. Until you can accept that, yes, it did happen and yes, it did suck, but no, not all chicks are like that, you'll probably keep to dating girls you simply lust after rather than actually like.

This is not healthy.

So take a break and if you find a girl you actually enjoy as a person, go for it. But think with the head up top, since it seems that that's the sort of relationship you are going for. The other one ain't going to help you with that.

...I was going to say something similar, but this pretty much sums it up nicely.

[Coidzor]

Alright, so I have never had a girlfriend I actually liked.

Any thoughts or advice on what I should do about this issue?

Hmm. You might want to think about taking a break for a few months and then becoming a disciple of Loopy.

[Starbuck_II]

Which is why I have so little luck with girls. The first girl I ever really liked screwed up my psyche horribly.

I liked her for a while (this was middle school, and I was extremely lacking in social skills). I fantasized about dating her. All in all, I was extremely lost in how to deal with this. Eventually, I balls up and asked her out.

Yes, she says. Awesome. Wow, I had no idea that was going to happen. Nice.

Oh wait, she says, I thought you wanted to hang out. Never mind then.

Ooookaaay... this sucks. Whatever though, I'll be fine in a week or so.

At least you told her you liked her.
I never got that courage for my first crush. Even when she kept throwing out hints that she liked me.
Met her a few years later in middle school and she had a bf.
In fact, all through out teen hood girls kept throwing out hints (too bad no time machine).



Here's the kicker. 6 months later, the bitch (yes she was a bitch, and other words I can't mention here) gets me arrested. Yes, I was doing something illegal. But, it was the epitome of non-violent crime (marijuana). About a year later, she starts drinking. Where are your morals now? Alcohol is worse for you in EVERY SINGLE WAY except for the legality part (don't try to argue this with me, researching drugs is a bit of a hobby of mine).

So Playgrounders, there is my story. Mind, she did inadvertantly improve my life. The personality I adopted to be in somewhat the same social circle as her eventually became my real personality, which led to a rise in popularity. Mind, it did lead to alcohol, but at the moment that's a big plus.

Any thoughts or advice on what I should do about this issue?

I'm not a fan of law breakers (I never inhaled meself), but if popularity is what you like um good for you.
You should probably not drink too much around a girl you like if it keeps leading to bad actions.

[skywalker]

I'm not a fan of law breakers (I never inhaled meself), but if popularity is what you like um good for you.

Because everyone smokes pot or breaks the law in other ways so that they'll be more popular. :smallsigh:

[Puppychowguy]

It's always funny to me how people say it's okay to smoke marijuana based of the assumption that alcohol is legal and acknowledge that it's worse for you. Yet, would you smoke a cigarette because it is legal even though it is also really bad for you.

People use alcohol as a reason it's okay to smoke pot AND continue to drink alcohol, using legality as a platform. If alcohol was illegal would you stop drinking it even though it is worse...no.

I just know people that go around preaching cigarettes are bad and should be illegal yet they go around smoking marijuana and drink alcohol and the reason it's okay to smoke marijuana apparently is that alcohol is legal and worse yet cigarettes they think should be illegal. Why not say they should make alcohol illegal and marijuana legal? They just use whatever advantage they can to justify things they do.


Sorry about the off subject rant.

[Godskook]

Oh God The Pain!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Syka]

Oh God The Pain!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Do explain (or not, if it would 'cause more pain).


Also, can we move away from the discussion of illicit substances as it relates to legality (ie, politics)? Don't want the thread to get locked or anything. :smalltongue:



I may be away for a bit as I try and ressurect my laptop. He's finally kicking it, and I'm transferring my important stuff off as I type this. That should be done by morning and if the SysRestore goes as planned, by tomorrow night I should have a fresh computer. Should. Stuff NEVER goes as it should with me and electronics.

[Godskook]

Do explain (or not, if it would 'cause more pain).

Let's see. I'm getting divorced. Well no...er kinda, sorta. We've been *really* separated for 2 years now, and the only reason neither of us have started seeing other people is that we both believe strongly enough in marriage that being technically married is reason enough to act married. That said, our differences *seem* irreconcilable, leaving divorce as our only practical option.

She just called a few hours ago, and we talked. We talked quite well, actually, getting into some of the stuff we needed to deal with in order to save the marriage even. She even said she loved me(Now, context does count for something there, but she still said it, something I haven't heard leave her lips in 2 years). A part of me wants to cling to that solitary fact and ignore the entire rest of the phone-call.

She also asked why it was I hadn't divorced her yet. I told her, primarily, the delay was monetary, yet I emphasized that this wasn't what I wanted. She said that if it was just money keeping the divorce from going through, she'd be willing to put some in.

The worst of it? She's as bad off as I am right now, mentally. She described herself as being a largely depressed person these days, and that's horrible. So much of me wishes that I never knew her so that her life would be more the way it was when we met.

The best of it? She's starting to pull through. As estranged from her as I am, I can tell, she's finally coming out of the mental ****storm our separation put her through.

And when our 50 minute(yes, I always note and cherish how long our phone calls are) phone call was up, I had to tell my Dad that it was none of his business. That hurt, too, but it was what needed to be said. In trying to become a part of my life, he meddled too much in my separation already, sharing things with her that were said to him in confidence, believing he was 'helping'. He means well, but doesn't understand the dynamics that are at work.

[Totally Guy]

I worked hard on Saturday filling out all the complicated dating site questions.

Tonight I'm going to pay my money and join in.

[Kjata]

Let's see. I'm getting divorced. Well no...er kinda, sorta. We've been *really* separated for 2 years now, and the only reason neither of us have started seeing other people is that we both believe strongly enough in marriage that being technically married is reason enough to act married. That said, our differences *seem* irreconcilable, leaving divorce as our only practical option.

She just called a few hours ago, and we talked. We talked quite well, actually, getting into some of the stuff we needed to deal with in order to save the marriage even. She even said she loved me(Now, context does count for something there, but she still said it, something I haven't heard leave her lips in 2 years). A part of me wants to cling to that solitary fact and ignore the entire rest of the phone-call.

She also asked why it was I hadn't divorced her yet. I told her, primarily, the delay was monetary, yet I emphasized that this wasn't what I wanted. She said that if it was just money keeping the divorce from going through, she'd be willing to put some in.

The worst of it? She's as bad off as I am right now, mentally. She described herself as being a largely depressed person these days, and that's horrible. So much of me wishes that I never knew her so that her life would be more the way it was when we met.

The best of it? She's starting to pull through. As estranged from her as I am, I can tell, she's finally coming out of the mental ****storm our separation put her through.

And when our 50 minute(yes, I always note and cherish how long our phone calls are) phone call was up, I had to tell my Dad that it was none of his business. That hurt, too, but it was what needed to be said. In trying to become a part of my life, he meddled too much in my separation already, sharing things with her that were said to him in confidence, believing he was 'helping'. He means well, but doesn't understand the dynamics that are at work.

Wow dude that's an unfortunate situation you have going there, one in which I can in no way help you.

I feel for you though.

[snoopy13a]

It's always funny to me how people say it's okay to smoke marijuana based of the assumption that alcohol is legal and acknowledge that it's worse for you. Yet, would you smoke a cigarette because it is legal even though it is also really bad for you.



Alcohol in moderation is not bad for you. Drinking one or two glasses of alcohol a day is correlated with better health*.

Getting drunk is worse for one's health than smoking marijuana but many people use alcohol responsibly and do not harm their health.

* A few scientists have argued that the correlation is spurious. Their contention is that the demographics of people who drink one or two glasses of alcohol a day is healthier than those who do not drink. In other words, it isn't the alcohol but rather that they tend to weigh less, exercise more, etc.

[CollinPhillips]

I worked hard on Saturday filling out all the complicated dating site questions.

Tonight I'm going to pay my money and join in.

Matchmaker matchmaker, make me a match! Find me a find, catch me a catch...

But no, seriously, good luck with that.

[Syka]

Godskook, I'm sorry you are dealing with that. :smallfrown: It's never easy and moreso when both parties are miserable.






In other news, Stan has been successfully restored and after about 2.5 hours I have him connected to the wireless. It took a while to figure it out, but he's there. He's also got AVG and Malwarebytes, and I gave him the pretty new Google Chrome. :) So far he's doing OK, lets just hope daily virus scans and the like can help.

[Umael]

Godskook:

Interesting. Not a situation I would wish to have.

Then again, I handle things differently.

Cut or mend. Don't linger.

But that's me.

Good luck.

[Asta Kask]

Let's see. I'm getting divorced. Well no...er kinda, sorta. We've been *really* separated for 2 years now, and the only reason neither of us have started seeing other people is that we both believe strongly enough in marriage that being technically married is reason enough to act married. That said, our differences *seem* irreconcilable, leaving divorce as our only practical option.

She just called a few hours ago, and we talked. We talked quite well, actually, getting into some of the stuff we needed to deal with in order to save the marriage even. She even said she loved me(Now, context does count for something there, but she still said it, something I haven't heard leave her lips in 2 years). A part of me wants to cling to that solitary fact and ignore the entire rest of the phone-call.

She also asked why it was I hadn't divorced her yet. I told her, primarily, the delay was monetary, yet I emphasized that this wasn't what I wanted. She said that if it was just money keeping the divorce from going through, she'd be willing to put some in.

The worst of it? She's as bad off as I am right now, mentally. She described herself as being a largely depressed person these days, and that's horrible. So much of me wishes that I never knew her so that her life would be more the way it was when we met.

The best of it? She's starting to pull through. As estranged from her as I am, I can tell, she's finally coming out of the mental ****storm our separation put her through.

And when our 50 minute(yes, I always note and cherish how long our phone calls are) phone call was up, I had to tell my Dad that it was none of his business. That hurt, too, but it was what needed to be said. In trying to become a part of my life, he meddled too much in my separation already, sharing things with her that were said to him in confidence, believing he was 'helping'. He means well, but doesn't understand the dynamics that are at work.

I don't know if it helps, but there's plenty of research showing that divorce works. People do feel better after it's all done.

[skywalker]

Let's see. I'm getting divorced. Well no...er kinda, sorta. We've been *really* separated for 2 years now, and the only reason neither of us have started seeing other people is that we both believe strongly enough in marriage that being technically married is reason enough to act married. That said, our differences *seem* irreconcilable, leaving divorce as our only practical option.

Well are they, or aren't they? If you can figure that out, you might save a lot of money and even more heartbreak.


She just called a few hours ago, and we talked. We talked quite well, actually, getting into some of the stuff we needed to deal with in order to save the marriage even. She even said she loved me(Now, context does count for something there, but she still said it, something I haven't heard leave her lips in 2 years). A part of me wants to cling to that solitary fact and ignore the entire rest of the phone-call.

You are correct to realize that even if you love someone dearly, differences are differences.


She also asked why it was I hadn't divorced her yet. I told her, primarily, the delay was monetary, yet I emphasized that this wasn't what I wanted. She said that if it was just money keeping the divorce from going through, she'd be willing to put some in.

But it's not just money, then, right?


The worst of it? She's as bad off as I am right now, mentally. She described herself as being a largely depressed person these days, and that's horrible. So much of me wishes that I never knew her so that her life would be more the way it was when we met.

This is the worst kind of self-loathing and does nothing positive for you. Stop. Clearly you made her happy once or she wouldn't have married you. It is not you, it is the situation.


The best of it? She's starting to pull through. As estranged from her as I am, I can tell, she's finally coming out of the mental ****storm our separation put her through.

Well that's good. It doesn't surprise me that you had a better conversation if at least one of you is feeling better about theirself.


* A few scientists have argued that the correlation is spurious. Their contention is that the demographics of people who drink one or two glasses of alcohol a day is healthier than those who do not drink. In other words, it isn't the alcohol but rather that they tend to weigh less, exercise more, etc.

That doesn't make the correlation spurious. That just firmly categorizes it as a correlation, and not a causation.

I don't see how trying to cultivate that kind of lifestyle (and really, where better to start than the drinking? :smallwink:) is a bad thing. I think one reason people who drink a little are healthier is because drinking loosens you up, and loose people are healthier people.


It's always funny to me how people say it's okay to smoke marijuana based of the assumption that alcohol is legal and acknowledge that it's worse for you. Yet, would you smoke a cigarette because it is legal even though it is also really bad for you.

People use alcohol as a reason it's okay to smoke pot AND continue to drink alcohol, using legality as a platform. If alcohol was illegal would you stop drinking it even though it is worse...no.

I just know people that go around preaching cigarettes are bad and should be illegal yet they go around smoking marijuana and drink alcohol and the reason it's okay to smoke marijuana apparently is that alcohol is legal and worse yet cigarettes they think should be illegal. Why not say they should make alcohol illegal and marijuana legal? They just use whatever advantage they can to justify things they do.


Sorry about the off subject rant.

Cigarettes have additives actively added to them to make them more addictive and cheaper to make. Typically, those additives also make them much, much more poisonous to your body. Nicotine is the third most addictive mainstream drug.

The problem most people have with our current laws is that is psychoactivity, not the health risk, that seems to be the standard for legality/illegality.

[Serpentine]

Cigarettes have additives actively added to them to make them more addictive and cheaper to make. Typically, those additives also make them much, much more poisonous to your body. Nicotine is the third most addictive mainstream drug.My friend's dad has come into contact with drug addicts and recovered drug addicts through his work. Several have told him that it was easier for them to quit heroin than tobacco.

No relationships advice to offer, sorries :smallfrown:

[Puppychowguy]

Alcohol in moderation is not bad for you. Drinking one or two glasses of alcohol a day is correlated with better health*.

Getting drunk is worse for one's health than smoking marijuana but many people use alcohol responsibly and do not harm their health.

* A few scientists have argued that the correlation is spurious. Their contention is that the demographics of people who drink one or two glasses of alcohol a day is healthier than those who do not drink. In other words, it isn't the alcohol but rather that they tend to weigh less, exercise more, etc.

Cool, I should drink two glasses of alcohol and then drive somewhere!!!

I actually feel alcohol is more harmful to Other people than the person that uses it.



My friend's dad has come into contact with drug addicts and recovered drug addicts through his work. Several have told him that it was easier for them to quit heroin than tobacco.

My stepdad has a degree in chemical dependency and has come across people that stopped smoking cigarettes but couldn't stop smoking weed because they enjoyed that feeling more.

I could say a bunch of different things like it's easier for me to stop smoking cigarettes than eating ice cream. Food can be addictive. Games can be addictive. Anything can be addictive. I know that nicotine is inherently addictive and I'm sure it is easier for some people to do some things while others have problems with it.

[Serpentine]

Cool, I should drink two glasses of alcohol and then drive somewhere!!!If you drank them over, say, 2 hours, sure, go ahead.

My stepdad has a degree in chemical dependency and has come across people that stopped smoking cigarettes but couldn't stop smoking weed because they enjoyed that feeling more.That sounds more like "won't give it up" than "can't give it up". I know your stepfather obviously knows more about it than me, but I'm quite certain that there's a big difference between chemical dependency and emotional dependency. The heroin/tobacco anecdote, above, was referring (I believe) to chemical dependency.

So... Uh... My relationship's doing fine.

[Force]

A curious question: how do all you other college types maintain a romantic relationship amid all of the school busy-ness that you've got going on? It personally boggles my mind that anyone can give enough attention to both school & a relationship in college, though that may be because nursing's difficult where I go to school.

Mostly curious. ^^ I have a list of reasons I don't want to pursue a romantic relationship right now. Time is one of them but certainly not the only one.