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View Full Version : Master Generalist PrC: D&D 3.5 (PEACH)



Kobold-Bard
2010-01-25, 06:45 PM
Building a Wizard/Archmage who I'm writing as the master of all magic (colossal ego included).

I need something to fill the gap between those classes though, and most PrCs require some sort of specialization or lost caster levels. So I give to you the:

Master Generalist
http://www.jeux-strategie.com/upload/warcraft/BloodMage.jpg
"Magic is the most important resource in the Multiverse. Only a fool would intentionally limit themselves."
- Arden Spellsurge: Archmage and Headmaster of the Floating Arcana

Pre-requisites:
Skills: Knowledge (Arcana) 5 ranks, Spellcraft 5 ranks
Feats: Any Metamagic Feat
Spellcasting: Must be able to cast 2nd-level arcane spells
Special: Must be a generalist Wizard, and have at least two spells from each school recorded in their Spellbook (excluding Cantrips)

HD: d4
Class Skills (2+Int modifier per level): Concentration, Craft, Decipher Script, Knowledge (all skills, taken individually), Profession, Spellcraft.

Master Generalist {table=head]Level|Base Attack<br>Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|Spells

1st|
+0|
+0|
+0|
+2|Skill Focus (Spellcraft)|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

2nd|
+1|
+0|
+0|
+3|Expanded Spellbook|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

3rd|
+1|
+1|
+1|
+3||+1 level of existing spellcasting class

4th|
+2|
+1|
+1|
+4|Minor Esoterica|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

5th|
+2|
+1|
+1|
+4|Expanded Spellbook|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

6th|
+3|
+2|
+2|
+5|Caster Level Increase/school|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

7th|
+3|
+2|
+2|
+5|Moderate Esoterica|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

8th|
+4|
+2|
+2|
+6|Expanded Spellbook|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

9th|
+4|
+3|
+3|
+6|Permanent Caster Level Increase|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

10th|
+5|
+3|
+3|
+7|Major Esoterica|+1 level of existing spellcasting class [/table]

Class Features:

Spellcasting: At each level, you gain new spells per day and an increase in caster level as if you had also gained a level in the wizard class. You do not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained.

Skill Focus (Spellcraft): At 1st level, you gain Skill Focus (Spellcraft) as a bonus feat.

Expanded Spellbook: When you reach 2nd level, you can add one spell from any arcane spell list to your spellbook. The spell can be of any level that you can cast minus 1, and it is in addition to the normal spells gained when increasing your level.
You can add another spell of your chosen school to your spellbook at 5th and at 8th level.

Minor Esoterica (Ex): At 4th level, your willingness to maintain access to all schools of magic at the cost of additional spell slots opens your mind to new possibilities and grants you the first taste of the powerful skills of a Master Generalist. Each day as an immediate action (as such not needing a readied action) you may counterspell one spell of each school as if you had the Improved Counterspell Feat.

Caster Level Increase (Ex): Upon reaching 6th level, 1/day you can add 1 to your caster level when you cast an arcane spell of each school. At 9th level, you permanently as 1 to your caster level for any arcane spell you cast.

Moderate Esoterica (Ex): At 7th level, your long study of all aspects of arcane magic leads to a breakthrough. Each time you cast a spell that is of a different school to the previous spell you cast, the spell is treated as either having a +2 Caster Level Increase, or as being raised one slot higher for all purposes, as though using the Heighten Spell Feat (though the Feat is not required, and the Spell Slot's actual Level does not increase).

This effect is not cumulative, though it does continue to apply for each spell you cast that is of a different school to the previous one.

Major Esoterica (Ex): At 10th level, your knowledge of magic as a whole reaches its peak. You gain the ability to spontaneously apply a metamagic feat you possess to a spell you have prepared without increasing it's level. You may add a Metamagic feat to one spell of each school each day.

Special Restriction:
Universal is not a true school of magic. For the purposes of this class Universal spells are not required for entry pre-requisites, nor do they affect any Class Features.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thoughts? Ideas for better esoterica?

K-B

pyrefiend
2010-01-25, 06:50 PM
Looks pretty solid to me, though Moderate School Esoterica is a bit odd. Fast healing just doesn't seem to jive with the rest of the class abilities, though it could fit if you added in an extra sentence or so of explanation.

Kobold-Bard
2010-01-25, 06:54 PM
Looks pretty solid to me, though Moderate School Esoterica is a bit odd. Fast healing just doesn't seem to jive with the rest of the class abilities, though it could fit if you added in an extra sentence or so of explanation.

Agreed, but I really couldn't think of anything else. In the end the healing thing came from the Vest of the Archmagi in the MiC, which lets you trade spell slots for minor healing.

Temotei
2010-01-25, 06:55 PM
Unless you want them to take spells from other classes (which you may very well allow, seeing as this is a generalist), word expanded spellbook so that you only get arcane spells from casting classes you have levels in (most likely wizard).

I'm agreeing with the above poster on fast healing. It's just weird. I'd like to see something more...fun, too. I imagine the fast healing doesn't stack, but if you cast a 9th level spell, wait three rounds, and cast a 2nd level spell, does that add two more rounds to the fast healing duration, do nothing, or lower the duration to two rounds?

Mongoose87
2010-01-25, 06:59 PM
The fast healing bugs me too. It doesn't seem to fit the flavor, and, at that level, it wouldn't be all that useful.

Kobold-Bard
2010-01-25, 06:59 PM
Unless you want them to take spells from other classes (which you may very well allow, seeing as this is a generalist), word expanded spellbook so that you only get arcane spells from casting classes you have levels in (most likely wizard).

Added limitation of Sorcerer/Wizard spell list. Thanks.


I'm agreeing with the above poster on fast healing. It's just weird. I'd like to see something more...fun, too. I imagine the fast healing doesn't stack, but if you cast a 9th level spell, wait three rounds, and cast a 2nd level spell, does that add two more rounds to the fast healing duration, do nothing, or lower the duration to two rounds?

It doesn't stack, it overlaps. So the second level spell would be wasted, though if after 7 rounds have expired you cast a 4th level spell you'd get two additional rounds of healing after the 9th level spell's healing expired.

Kobold-Bard
2010-01-25, 07:00 PM
The fast healing bugs me too. It doesn't seem to fit the flavor, and, at that level, it wouldn't be all that useful.

Okay that's 3 for 3. Anyone have any suggestions for a replacement ability?

pyrefiend
2010-01-25, 07:00 PM
I agree, I think it should be replaced with something unique to a generalist wizard, something that rewards you for casting from different schools.

Maybe something that grants bonuses as long as you cast spells from different schools in consecutive rounds? Just a thought, but you get the idea.

Edit: Or how about a flat bonus for preparing spells from each school, or greater bonuses for distributing your prepared spells more equally among all the schools?

Temotei
2010-01-25, 07:02 PM
I agree, I think it should be replaced with something unique to a generalist wizard, something that rewards you for casting from different schools.

Maybe something that grants bonuses as long as you cast spells from different schools in consecutive rounds? Just a thought, but you get the idea.

That's a good idea. So far, the only ability that really adds the "generalist" feel to the class (other than spell selection, probably) is the expanded spellbook ability.

I can't think of anything right now, but I'll get back to you on more.

Kobold-Bard
2010-01-25, 07:06 PM
I agree, I think it should be replaced with something unique to a generalist wizard, something that rewards you for casting from different schools.

Maybe something that grants bonuses as long as you cast spells from different schools in consecutive rounds? Just a thought, but you get the idea.

Edit: Or how about a flat bonus for preparing spells from each school, or greater bonuses for distributing your prepared spells more equally among all the schools?

Hmm.... Perhaps a bonus spell slot at each spell level if all of your spells for that level are from a different school (or at least one from each if you manage to get more than 8 slots for a spell level)?

DracoDei
2010-01-25, 07:11 PM
This is very off-concept to me... you give no reason to generalize.
At the very least say that they have to know at least two spells (not counting 0th level spells) from each school...

Then give them some class abilities that reward them for maintaing diversity.

If you are familiar with Tome of Battle, you might look both at the Master of Nine, and my own True Master of Nine (link in my extended signature) to get some ideas.

Latronis
2010-01-25, 07:14 PM
Hmm.... Perhaps a bonus spell slot at each spell level if all of your spells for that level are from a different school (or at least one from each if you manage to get more than 8 slots for a spell level)?

At 4th level, your willingness to maintain access to all schools of magic at the cost of additional spell slots opens your mind to new possibilities and grants you the first taste of the powerful skills of a Master Generalist. At 7th You contradict yourself and get bonus slots anyway

Kobold-Bard
2010-01-25, 07:15 PM
At 4th level, your willingness to maintain access to all schools of magic at the cost of additional spell slots opens your mind to new possibilities and grants you the first taste of the powerful skills of a Master Generalist. At 7th You contradict yourself and get bonus slots anyway

Good point. This is why I don't homebrew, I suck at it :smalltongue: :smallannoyed:

deuxhero
2010-01-25, 07:19 PM
The abilities aren't anything special (it's a very easy to qualify full progression class, so that's a good thing).

"Expanded Spellbook" is really really poor (You are a wizard, that's what scrolls/other wizard's books are for). Perhaps reduce the cost for putting spells in your spellbook instead (Again, a minor, but noticeable, advantage). It gets worthless when you get a blessed book though (that gives me a second idea though. Lower the number of pages you take up in a spell book when writing down a spell as another latter class feature)

Temotei
2010-01-25, 07:22 PM
The abilities aren't anything special (it's a very easy to qualify full progression class, so that's a good thing).

"Expanded Spellbook" is really really poor (You are a wizard, that's what scrolls/other wizard's books are for). Perhaps reduce the cost for putting spells in your spellbook instead (Again, a minor, but noticeable, advantage)

Except you can cast spells on your prohibited schools lists (why you would prohibit schools for a generalist wizard, I don't know...).

Latronis
2010-01-25, 07:27 PM
Actually getting a 3rd spell per level free without the inherent luck-screw of copying is a nifty and fairly flavourful boon. It's not huge but as a class ability of a fullcasting progression prc it's just about right. Especially useful when you may lack access to other sources of magic for the copying.

deuxhero
2010-01-25, 07:38 PM
At every level prehaps, but 3 of the 10? Really odd.

Kobold-Bard
2010-01-25, 07:39 PM
Possible change to Caster Level Increase: At 6th level as long as you have prepared at least one spell from each school of magic (excluding Cantrips), and each spell of the highest level you can cast is of a different school your Caster Level is increased by +1. At 9th Level this increases to +2.

Still need help with Moderate Esoterica: At 7th level, your long study of all aspects of arcane magic leads to a breakthrough. Each time you cast a spell that is of a different school to the previous spell you cast, <you get something>.
The number of spells that this can affect cumulatively before it resets is equal to your class level.

All I can think of is an increased Caster Level, but that's already a Class Feature. Damn my empty brain :smallannoyed:

Kobold-Bard
2010-01-25, 07:40 PM
At every level prehaps, but 3 of the 10? Really odd.

That's a copyover from the Master Specialist (as is most of it admittedly). Make it every level?

DracoDei
2010-01-25, 07:41 PM
DC increases, 1 level of free metamagic, +3 to caster level for purposes of being counterspelled...

Also, class-level as a bonus to Spellcraft checks to identify spells (but not learn them or whatever), might be another flavorful ability.

Kobold-Bard
2010-01-25, 07:48 PM
Adjusted Moderate Esoterica.

Ok I need to get up early for work so I'm off to bed. Keep em coming, this is all good stuff.

Vaynor
2010-01-25, 07:57 PM
Adjusted Moderate Esoterica.

Ok I need to get up early for work so I'm off to bed. Keep em coming, this is all good stuff.

I like the change to this ability, much better than fast healing. However this should not stack, as it reads (as far as I understand) you can get up to 10 additional spell levels. That's a DC increase of up to 10, which is way too overpowered. It should give you maybe an additional 2-3 levels max.

Edit: I really like the class though, very simple and very useful.

pyrefiend
2010-01-25, 08:05 PM
Looks good, I'm happy to have helped!

Just three things though:
- I think it needs to reset if you spend a round without casting a spell.
- The bonus should probably reset as soon as you cast a spell of the same school twice. As is, you can just alternate between two schools.
- How does this interact with the Universal "school"?

DragoonWraith
2010-01-25, 08:07 PM
Added limitation of Sorcerer/Wizard spell list. Thanks.
The Master Specialist, notably, does not have that limitation. And as someone has already pointed out, it's pretty much meaningless unless you can take things from outside your list; it's gonna, what, save you 300 gp? Whoopty-doo.

Temotei
2010-01-25, 08:32 PM
Looks good, I'm happy to have helped!

Just three things though:
- I think it needs to reset if you spend a round without casting a spell.
- The bonus should probably reset as soon as you cast a spell of the same school twice. As is, you can just alternate between two schools.
- How does this interact with the Universal "school"?

Universal isn't a school.

pyrefiend
2010-01-25, 08:34 PM
Universal isn't a school.
Thus the quotes, though I guess that doesn't really clarify things. But anyway, my question was how does it interact with the ability?

Kobold-Bard
2010-01-26, 02:54 AM
I like the change to this ability, much better than fast healing. However this should not stack, as it reads (as far as I understand) you can get up to 10 additional spell levels. That's a DC increase of up to 10, which is way too overpowered. It should give you maybe an additional 2-3 levels max.

Edit: I really like the class though, very simple and very useful.


Looks good, I'm happy to have helped!

Just three things though:
- I think it needs to reset if you spend a round without casting a spell.
- The bonus should probably reset as soon as you cast a spell of the same school twice. As is, you can just alternate between two schools.
- How does this interact with the Universal "school"?

Added those adjustments, it now resets if you go a round without casting, cast from the same school within 5 rounds (makes you alternate between at least 5 different schools for consecutive rounds, which at least in my head sounds like a challenge in battle. If you disagree please let me know).

Added note saying that Universal is never considered a school for these abilities.


The Master Specialist, notably, does not have that limitation. And as someone has already pointed out, it's pretty much meaningless unless you can take things from outside your list; it's gonna, what, save you 300 gp? Whoopty-doo.

Specialists however have only 1 school to pick from.

Changed so you can add from any Arcane Spellcasting Class, however it is a spell that is = highest level-1, rather than the M-Specialists = highest level. This seems fair. Thoughts?


Universal isn't a school.


Thus the quotes, though I guess that doesn't really clarify things. But anyway, my question was how does it interact with the ability?

Noted thanks.

arguskos
2010-01-26, 02:56 AM
Specialists however have only 1 school to pick from.

Changed so you can add from any Arcane Spellcasting Class, however it is a spell that is = highest level-1, rather than the M-Specialists = highest level. This seems fair. Thoughts?
I foresee Wings of Flurry/Wings of Cover shenanananananagins. Alternatively, Arcane Fusion/Greater Arcane Fusion debauchery. Either way, that's a tricky thing to wrangle. >_>

Kobold-Bard
2010-01-26, 03:00 AM
I foresee Wings of Flurry/Wings of Cover shenanananananagins. Alternatively, Arcane Fusion/Greater Arcane Fusion debauchery. Either way, that's a tricky thing to wrangle. >_>

:smallconfused: What do you mean?

appending_doom
2010-01-26, 01:21 PM
It's an interesting class, but as written I wouldn't allow it in a campaign I ran. If you made the following changes, I'd probably allow it:


Moderate School Esoterica
If you cast a spell, and had within the last round cast spells, none of which were of the current spell's school, you may choose to Heighten the second spell by one level without increasing the spell slot or casting time, or increase its caster level by 2. Spells of the highest level you can cast may only receive the second benefit.

As long as the master generalist maintains these restrictions, he may continue to gain the benefit of increased caster level or spell level for each spell he casts. As such, a master specialist is far more dangerous in a protracted duel than in several short encounters.

(Heighten +5 for free? Not for the "restriction" of having to cast spells of a different school for 4 rounds. Besides, I hate abilities that require this level of paperwork. I think the constant +1 (or +2 CL) is good, as it requires you to choose between a barrage of spells or conserving your power.)


Major School Esoterica
You gain the ability to spontaneously apply a metamagic feat you possess with a level adjustment no more than half your class level to a spell you had prepared without increasing the spell slot used. You may use this ability twice per day.

(Even clerics need to spend something to get persistent spells without high-level spell slots.)

Kobold-Bard
2010-01-26, 02:10 PM
I can live with those changes. So I can use it?

Il_Vec
2010-10-18, 03:51 PM
Have you considered that the Moderate Esoterica encourages a lot of "Quickened True Strike + something that's not a Divination"?

I'm not saying it's a bad thing, and I love the class, I like the idea of a PrC tailored for generalist wizards.

Kobold-Bard
2010-10-19, 05:47 AM
Have you considered that the Moderate Esoterica encourages a lot of "Quickened True Strike + something that's not a Divination"?

I'm not saying it's a bad thing, and I love the class, I like the idea of a PrC tailored for generalist wizards.

It may do, however that also requires you to spend all your 5th level slots on Quickened True Strike; useful, but far from optimal.

((I have mod permission to reply despite necromancy))

Kobold-Bard
2010-10-21, 11:59 AM
On advice from a couple of people by PM I've changed some abilities to make them more in-line with the Moderate Esoterica (ie. making you want to use all different schools):

Minor Esoterica: As an immediate action (as such not needing a readied action) you may counterspell one spell/4 class levels of each school as if you had the Improved Counterspell Feat.

Major Esoterica: You gain the ability to spontaneously apply a metamagic feat you possess to a spell you have prepared without increasing it's level. You may add a Metamagic feat to one spell of each school each day.

Thoughts on these?

Who
2010-10-21, 12:02 PM
I'm not really sure on countering spells so I can't really comment on that. The Major Esoterica doesn't seem too bad though.

Kobold-Bard
2010-10-21, 12:05 PM
I'm not really sure on countering spells so I can't really comment on that. The Major Esoterica doesn't seem too bad though.

Cool.

The reason your knowledge of Counterspelling is lacking is likely because it sucks because you have to ready an action without being an Archmage and taking one of it's more mediocre High Arcana.

Cute and Evil
2010-10-23, 07:33 AM
There is such a thing as Reactive Counterspell, which lets you counterspell as an immediate action unlimited times/day, except you give up your whole next turn to do so. (from 'Player's Guide to Faerun')

Also, I don't think I quite understand how the minor esoterica works, the way I understand it is: you're a lvl 8 Master Generalist, so you can counterspell as an immediate action 2 spells from each school per day? Is that correct? If not, please explain.

And some minor nitpicks: spelling and the fact that it says Minor School Esoterica (same for moderate and major) in the listed abilities below the table. :smallwink:

I would like to use this myself in a campaign I'm in. Though there's options for generalists, namely: Mage of the Arcane Order with their spellpools.

Kobold-Bard
2010-10-23, 07:46 AM
There is such a thing as Reactive Counterspell, which lets you counterspell as an immediate action unlimited times/day, except you give up your whole next turn to do so. (from 'Player's Guide to Faerun')

Also, I don't think I quite understand how the minor esoterica works, the way I understand it is: you're a lvl 8 Master Generalist, so you can counterspell as an immediate action 2 spells from each school per day? Is that correct? If not, please explain.
I was not aware of that. And you are correct except that it's 1 spell of each school/day.


And some minor nitpicks: spelling and the fact that it says Minor School Esoterica (same for moderate and major) in the listed abilities below the table. :smallwink:
Damn. Fixed.


I would like to use this myself in a campaign I'm in. Though there's options for generalists, namely: Mage of the Arcane Order with their spellpools.
That is true, but I felt it was unfair that specialists got a class just for themselves when Generalists didn't.

Cute and Evil
2010-10-23, 07:56 AM
Ah, above it said for minor esoterica 1 spell/4 class levels, but 1 spell total works, as it wasn't going to become more than 2/day anyway (except for epic levels). I'm looking forward to seeing this in use.

And I always wondered why specialists got so much attention anyway, this is a perfect idea, and very well done.

Kobold-Bard
2010-10-23, 07:59 AM
Ah, above it said for minor esoterica 1 spell/4 class levels, but 1 spell total works, as it wasn't going to become more than 2/day anyway (except for epic levels). I'm looking forward to seeing this in use.

And I always wondered why specialists got so much attention anyway, this is a perfect idea, and very well done.

Thanks much :smallbiggrin: