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Syka
2010-01-26, 03:05 PM
I want to fix the world. :smallbiggrin:

Well, maybe not the whole world...but I want to do something to make an impact. It likely will not be my 'career' or whatever, but I want to do something. I've already told Oz that, should we be successful, I want a good percentage of our income to go toward philanthropy.

I've thought many times of starting my own non-profit, or working with an established one (were I single, International Red Cross would be at the top of my list with Amnesty International). The only problem is I can't figure out what to work for.

I have time, and getting my MBA is certainly going to help a lot. But if I can't figure it out in the next year and a half or so, I figure I can always do my best to make obscene amounts of money and donate the hell out of it.

I just wanted to share. :smallsmile:

Grey Paladin
2010-01-26, 03:07 PM
Welcome to the club. Lets hope you don't grow out of it (Translation: become a bitter empty husk of a human being) like most people do.

SurlySeraph
2010-01-26, 03:08 PM
I feel much the same way, which is why I want to go into either medicine or health policy.

As a student of its founder, I have an obligation to recommend Partners in Health (http://www.standwithhaiti.org/haiti) to you.

Zeful
2010-01-26, 03:10 PM
Welcome to the club. Lets hope you don't grow out of it (Translation: become a bitter empty husk of a human being) like most people do.

I didn't grow out of it. I just realized, in order to fix the world, I must be in control of it. So once I reveal my master plan to crush the world beneath my heel, I can then make everything perfect.

Which, honestly, is probably worse than growing out of it.

Everything. Perfect.

Syka
2010-01-26, 03:14 PM
Grey, I've always been a bit of an idealist mixed with realistic, and oddly the idealist in me has overcome the realist in the last few years.

It's quite amusing.

Thanks for the link, Surly. :smallsmile: I first heard of them a couple weeks ago with this whole Haiti thing and they look like an awesome organization. Anyone else is welcome to make recommendations.

ETA: Actually, PIH would be perfect it seems, now that I'm looking around their jobs section.

I'm going to see if for the Fall term I can do a sort of 'guided study' thing for non-profits.

...and here my mom thought getting my MBA would help me get a good paying job. :smallwink: Given my current paths are either film producer or member of a NPO, I think that plan backfired...

Dr.Epic
2010-01-26, 03:22 PM
I want to fix the world. :smallbiggrin:

Well, maybe not the whole world...but I want to do something to make an impact. It likely will not be my 'career' or whatever, but I want to do something. I've already told Oz that, should we be successful, I want a good percentage of our income to go toward philanthropy.

You remind me of another eager person wanting to save the world and better mankind...

http://scrapetv.com/News/News%20Pages/Entertainment/images-2/adrian-veidt-ozymandias.jpg

Let me know if you need help making a squid monster.

Force
2010-01-26, 03:45 PM
I hear you, Syka. 'Tis one of my motivations behind becoming a nurse... I lived in a place where I saw suffering every day that I couldn't do anything about. It gets tiresome when you know what you should to do and yet don't have the skills or resources to do it.

Syka
2010-01-26, 03:52 PM
I hear you, Syka. 'Tis one of my motivations behind becoming a nurse... I lived in a place where I saw suffering every day that I couldn't do anything about. It gets tiresome when you know what you should to do and yet don't have the skills or resources to do it.

I tend to (briefly) consider nursing until I realize I'd be so crappy at it, haha. I'm quite squeamish. Oz's mom sliced her hand open on broken glass Christmas Eve, and while I held her hand, I couldn't even look at the cut (Oz was the lucky one who got to check for glass, lol).

Same with technical stuff (computers and all). I think if I'd figured it out soon enough, I may have tried going for Social Work or some such, but I'm in my second semester of an MBA that I'm going to be able to get debt free...I should be able to find something to do with this in the NPO sector or social work.

ETA: What I mean is kudos for going into nursing. It's a great profession, and people are finally realizing that you guys do just as much, if not more than, MD's. :)

Prime32
2010-01-26, 04:20 PM
You remind me of another eager person wanting to save the world and better mankind...

http://scrapetv.com/News/News%20Pages/Entertainment/images-2/adrian-veidt-ozymandias.jpg

Let me know if you need help making a squid monster.And let me know if you ever start bleeding swords.

Corlindale
2010-01-26, 05:29 PM
You could be a teacher of some kind, that's probably a positive impact on the world, albeit less glamorous than medicine or other work that help others more directly. Then you could subtly indoctrinate (or inspire, that sounds more nice) all your students to be more caring and selfless as well:smallsmile: And then you could of course donate a lot to philanthrophy while you're at it. Even if a teacher's salary isn't all that impressive. That's probably my plan, anyway...

As you've already stated, you could alternatively try to get into a job that'll simply make you a lot of money, then you'd be able to provide more selective economic benefits to your aid-organizations of choice. It may be less satisfying for you if you do not feel you are helping people directly in what you do, though.
You could combine that with volunteer work of some kind. You don't necessarily have to travel thousands of miles to make a difference, there are people in need of help in most areas - although it is of course more extreme in the developing countries.

SDF
2010-01-26, 05:46 PM
The peacecorps and other groups recruit teachers to go into impoverished areas as well. And as long as you have a BA (don't need a specific teaching degree) you can teach for most organizations. Usually the emphasis is on teaching English.

The Extinguisher
2010-01-26, 05:56 PM
Is it wrong that I feel no desire to save even the smallest portion of the world? Maybe I'm too much a pragmatist and a pessimist, but I personally can't be bothered to devote my life to fixing something that's ultimately insignificant in the face of the universe. I've gotten to the point where I've mostly stopped doing things for other people simply for the sake of helping.

I'm not trying to discourage you or anything, and I think you're probably a better person then I am for actually wanting to do something like this. :smallsmile: I guess I'm just sharing a secret of my life.

Umael
2010-01-26, 06:02 PM
I want to fix the world.

But... but... I kinda liked the idea of the world getting knocked up and having little Earths orbiting around.

But... yeah... I can see your point. I mean, she's getting kinda old to be having worldlets, isn't she? Better safe than sor-

Oh.

That's what you meant!

...

Never mind then.

(:smalltongue:)

randman22222
2010-01-26, 08:16 PM
Ah. Yes.

I'm much the same way.

We'll be bricks on the road to hell together! :smallbiggrin:

(Okay, so if I don't know how to help, I choose inaction, so that really decreases my chances of ending up that way...)

Dr.Epic
2010-01-26, 09:54 PM
And let me know if you ever start bleeding swords.

Me not get reference.

Shadowbane
2010-01-26, 10:01 PM
You have a healthy outlook on this. Healthier than mine. I think I'm going to use you as a bit of an example of what I want my mindset to be like.

With me, it comes more as I have to help. I can't stop myself from listening to other people and sharing in their pain. It's interesting, it's deeply unhealthy, and some people have taken to calling me a guardian angel. Most angels are healthier, I think.

Good on you for being more realistic than me. And good on you for this attitude!

Krade
2010-01-26, 10:13 PM
I have to respect the desire to help. I wish I could help the disaster relief in Haiti. I wish I could've helped after Katrina. I wish a lot of things. "Fixing" the world, however, is past unrealistic and straight on into IMPOSSIBLE. Were I to ever find myself in a position where I could help in these situations, I would gladly and wholeheartedly jump aboard and do so. However, I would have to limit myself to disaster relief. Most other pursuits are, at best, futile. At worst? Make the problem worse.

For example: Hunger. I can't support feeding the starving masses because the best way to make more hungry people is by feeding hungry people. You can't end world hunger. It is flatout impossible. If everyone in the whole world never had to go hungry, it would only take a couple decades (at most) before you had a couple billion more starving people. And by that time, worldwide food production would already be at maximum capacity. What will we do then?

Flickerdart
2010-01-26, 10:48 PM
Fixing the world's not gonna work: you can't fix the people that inhabit it. Unless, of course, you're using a definition of "fix" that I'm not too entirely comfortable with.

Zeful
2010-01-26, 11:02 PM
Fixing the world's not gonna work: you can't fix the people that inhabit it. Unless, of course, you're using a definition of "fix" that I'm not too entirely comfortable with.


I didn't grow out of it. I just realized, in order to fix the world, I must be in control of it. So once I reveal my master plan to crush the world beneath my heel, I can then make everything perfect.

Which, honestly, is probably worse than growing out of it.

Everything. Perfect.

How about mine?:smallbiggrin:

randman22222
2010-01-26, 11:08 PM
I have to respect the desire to help. I wish I could help the disaster relief in Haiti. I wish I could've helped after Katrina. I wish a lot of things. "Fixing" the world, however, is past unrealistic and straight on into IMPOSSIBLE. Were I to ever find myself in a position where I could help in these situations, I would gladly and wholeheartedly jump aboard and do so. However, I would have to limit myself to disaster relief. Most other pursuits are, at best, futile. At worst? Make the problem worse.

For example: Hunger. I can't support feeding the starving masses because the best way to make more hungry people is by feeding hungry people. You can't end world hunger. It is flatout impossible. If everyone in the whole world never had to go hungry, it would only take a couple decades (at most) before you had a couple billion more starving people. And by that time, worldwide food production would already be at maximum capacity. What will we do then?

I don't believe anyone claimed it was possible. Even changing one's perspective to geologic time, it's hard to see a time in which the world is fixed. People will likely just have different standards of what is ideal to good to bad to unacceptable.

That said, the problem of hunger is a lot more complex than just feeding people and the production of food. Remember that before the industrial revolution, hunger was the norm. Everywhere. I'd say we've made a helluvan improvement, wouldn't you? Technology and mindsets and zeitgeists all affect the hunger problem. If a population can be convinced that families should have two children each, then, not counting immigration and emigration, the population will be perfectly stable. Ideal, yes. Going to happen in our lifetime? Of course not. Will it ever happen? There is no way to know. Technology is unpredictable. Perhaps it will leap forward again, as it did in the Industrial Revolution, and provide new, efficient methods of producing food. Again, there is no way to tell if this is an impossibility or not.

A perfect world is not what we are after. We are after a world that moves forward.

And there is one thing - one response to naysayers - one can say with complete certainty.

Inaction will provide us nothing.

And @Flickerdart: You fail to see that we have made a few steps forward since the dawn of mankind. Is there a reason why mankind, just now, falls flat on its face, and continues no further?

Coidzor
2010-01-26, 11:16 PM
Well, we are always trying to tear down civilization and descend back into barbarous anarchy, so there's always the possibility they'll succeed in ending society.

randman22222
2010-01-26, 11:21 PM
Well, we are always trying to tear down civilization and descend back into barbarous anarchy, so there's always the possibility they'll succeed in ending society.

Perhaps.

I'm not sure about "always", though. Or even "frequently". Or even "occasionally".

At any rate, worth repeating is one of my central convictions:
Inaction provides nothing.
In this case, it makes your scenario more likely.

EDIT: Oh, but that reminds me of another problem:

We can't be certain that our 'help' isn't harm.
This is something that the overly zealous should remember. It bothers me at times, because I can occasionally stray into that state... :smallconfused:

Roland St. Jude
2010-01-26, 11:22 PM
An episode of one of my favorite TV shows of all time, Sports Night, dealt with exactly this issue. One of the main characters, eager to be charitable, was nevertheless paralyzed by the wide variety of options. After a querying all his friends and trying to find some rational basis for choosing some charity over another. (Do you give all to one charity or some to many? Do you give to "morally worthy causes" or is the homeless man worth giving to? Do you attack illnesses near to being cured or those that are underfunded?)

What it comes down to, and I think this is real wisdom, is "get in the game."

Which I guess translates to don't be paralyzed by the many options. Just give. Give all you can in any distribution you want to organizations that do what you find morally worthy and good stewards of the funds. There is information out there on choosing a good charity and even evaluating charities in terms of money spent on administration/overhead vs. actual aid.

I would only advise creating your own charity/non-profit if: 1) you can't find someone already doing the work you want to do (or can't find them doing it well), and 2) you think you can generate donations from others. If those aren't true, you're spending money on overhead that could be going to actual aid.

toasty
2010-01-26, 11:25 PM
Well, Fixing the world is something I think we should do. Now, the whys and hows are often off topic for this forum (trust me, I'll go off topic if we stray there:smalltongue:) but I do want to fix the world. I mean... I don't think anyone will disagree that we have some problems (pick any nation! Okay, maybe a few are pretty good, but most need help, at one level or another) and those problems need fixing.

That being said, being an Aid worker for Red Cross or Amnesty or something doesn't appeal to me. Having lived in the 3rd world for 18 years I think I might prefer sticking to the 1st world (which has its own set of problems).

randman22222
2010-01-26, 11:28 PM
Well, Fixing the world is something I think we should do. Now, the whys and hows are often off topic for this forum (trust me, I'll go off topic if we stray there:smalltongue:) but I do want to fix the world. I mean... I don't think anyone will disagree that we have some problems (pick any nation! Okay, maybe a few are pretty good, but most need help, at one level or another) and those problems need fixing.

That being said, being an Aid worker for Red Cross or Amnesty or something doesn't appeal to me. Having lived in the 3rd world for 18 years I think I might prefer sticking to the 1st world (which has its own set of problems).

Nooo... I couldn't live in the 3rd world for more than half a year, I think. I've been to the 3rd world a good few times on community service trips... Actually, I went to Dhaka with Habitat for Humanity after the cyclone a couple years ago... Funded and built houses in a village approx. two hours out of the city.

That was a great trip. :smallsmile:

Also, while I couldn't live in the 3rd world, I certainly can't stay in the 1st indefinitely, either...

Syka
2010-01-27, 12:03 AM
It's not so much I'm paralyzed by the choices as...I need to find a good fit.

I've already mentioned AI and IRC, but the American Humane Society and Teach For America (and related stuff to those; human rights, animal rescue, and teaching) are some particular passions. Human rights particularly gets me, but at this point due to family and romantic obligations it's not the right fit, unfortunately. PIH seems like a good match (headquarters in Boston, etc.) and Teach for America has positions in NYC.

I also like to research organizations. I don't donate money unless I've researched, simply because there is so much darn abuse of funds out there. It's depressing.

I know I can't fix the world. But my definition of making an impact is simply making someone's life better who may not have had a chance otherwise. People have helped me, my family, and several of those I know in our time of need. They have inspired us by their actions (like a number of my teachers, particularly in high school). I want to pass on that inspiration while making someone's life better in the process. It might not fix the objective world, but it could fix someone's world.



I'm glad to see there are others like me. :) Even those who aren't, your support means a lot.

Krade
2010-01-27, 01:40 AM
Also, while I couldn't live in the 3rd world, I certainly can't stay in the 1st indefinitely, either...

I've always been curious: Where the hell is the "2nd world?"

Zeb The Troll
2010-01-27, 01:44 AM
I've always been curious: Where the hell is the "2nd world?"This article should clear it up a bit...

http://www.nationsonline.org/oneworld/third_world_countries.htm

Short answer...
The Eastern bloc of the communist-socialist states, the "Second World".

Dallas-Dakota
2010-01-27, 01:47 AM
I didn't grow out of it. I just realized, in order to fix the world, I must be in control of it. So once I reveal my master plan to crush the world beneath my heel, I can then make everything perfect.

Which, honestly, is probably worse than growing out of it.

Everything. Perfect.
Yes.
Then again, I'm pressimistic and say you can't fix the world.
So my followers just started urging me to become president of some 3rd world country and take over(and ofcourse transform it into a 1st world country).

:smallamused:

Pyrian
2010-01-27, 01:47 AM
I've always been curious: Where the hell is the "2nd world?"Eastern block, historically (USSR and satellite states). The division is a bit obsolete, nowadays, and people usually say industrialized versus developing (the latter being sometimes a bit optimistic).

EDIT: Dang ninjas!

Pika...
2010-01-27, 02:56 AM
I want to fix the world. :smallbiggrin:

Well, maybe not the whole world...but I want to do something to make an impact. It likely will not be my 'career' or whatever, but I want to do something. I've already told Oz that, should we be successful, I want a good percentage of our income to go toward philanthropy.

I've thought many times of starting my own non-profit, or working with an established one (were I single, International Red Cross would be at the top of my list with Amnesty International). The only problem is I can't figure out what to work for.

I have time, and getting my MBA is certainly going to help a lot. But if I can't figure it out in the next year and a half or so, I figure I can always do my best to make obscene amounts of money and donate the hell out of it.

I just wanted to share. :smallsmile:


I have always found people like you strange in a "could not be more opposite than myself" way.

Here someone like I feels humanity has no hope, and that we will without a doubt either overpopulate ourselves out of resources/a planet, vaporize ourselves (possibly due to the prior), or otherwise exterminate ourselves. Yet there are people like you out there who still feel there is hope? Good luck, and I hope you succeed, even though it is clear that will not be the case at this point.

Zeb The Troll
2010-01-27, 02:58 AM
I have always found people like you strange in a "could not be more opposite than myself" way.

Here someone like I feels humanity has no hope, and that we will without a doubt either overpopulate ourselves out of resources/a planet, vaporize ourselves (possibly due to the prior), or otherwise exterminate ourselves. Yet there are people like you out there who still feel there is hope? Good luck, and I hope you succeed, even though it is clear that will not be the case at this point.I find it very curious, in an interesting psychology related sorta way, that on one hand you believe that there is no hope for mankind, but on the other hand you feel a need to preserve your blood line. :smalltongue:

Krade
2010-01-27, 03:11 AM
I find it very curious, in an interesting psychology related sorta way, that on one hand you believe that there is no hope for mankind, but on the other hand you feel a need to preserve your blood line. :smalltongue:

This, ladies and gentlemen, is what we in the industry call an "Oh, SNAP!":smalltongue:

Pika...
2010-01-27, 07:37 AM
I find it very curious, in an interesting psychology related sorta way, that on one hand you believe that there is no hope for mankind, but on the other hand you feel a need to preserve your blood line. :smalltongue:

Well, from what I understand it is only going to be 80ish years until there will be literally no room left on this planet. If it will boil down to survival of the fittest I want as many chance as I can get for my genes (and me through them) to survive.

Simple numbers. :smallsmile:

snoopy13a
2010-01-27, 08:10 AM
Well, from what I understand it is only going to be 80ish years until there will be literally no room left on this planet. If it will boil down to survival of the fittest I want as many chance as I can get for my genes (and me through them) to survive.

Simple numbers. :smallsmile:

I'm sure there were people saying the same thing 80 years ago. Not that you may not be right but just that predicting the future isn't easy.

Pika...
2010-01-27, 08:44 AM
I'm sure there were people saying the same thing 80 years ago. Not that you may not be right but just that predicting the future isn't easy.

True, true. There could be a plague or truly major natural disaster to slow the population down. But as it stands we can kind of guess how much further we have left to expand and how many resources we will have left based on current data.

However, scientist might cure cancer (the #2 or #1 killer of people?) and then we truly are screwed. Ironic concept isn't it? So many people trying to save lives by curing this evil disease, but by doing so they will be throwing the birth vs. death rate of the Human race even more out of proportion. :smallfrown:

Either way I am banking on numbers in the hopes of surviving. :/

Kobold-Bard
2010-01-27, 08:50 AM
...I have time, and getting my MBA is certainly going to help a lot....

Getting a Master of Battle Administration is going to help you fix the world? Surely two weeks at Bard camp would be more useful for convincing people...
Sorry, saw it and couldn't resist. Good luck with saving the world

Force
2010-01-27, 09:45 AM
Getting a Master of Battle Administration is going to help you fix the world? Surely two weeks at Bard camp would be more useful for convincing people...
Sorry, saw it and couldn't resist. Good luck with saving the world

The pen is only mightier than the sword in a free society, sirrah! ;)

Pika...
2010-01-27, 09:56 AM
The pen is only mightier than the sword in a free society, sirrah! ;)

Well, if the pen also happens to be a few feet long, and can also function as a great club in addition to a writing utensil then you get the best of both worlds.

Syka
2010-01-27, 10:15 AM
Pika, I am fairly certain we will eventually destroy ourselves. I abhor war, but understand it is also a necessary evil of sorts (without it, society would likely stagnate, etc.). I'm not deluded about the probable fate of humanity. Hell, take it out long enough and the sun'll destroy us.

Doesn't mean I can't help out in the here and now. I'm not worried about us killing ourselves off in the potential future. I care about making people's lives better NOW. :)

Grey Paladin
2010-01-27, 10:49 AM
Everything dies in the end. That's not a reason not to get the best out of life.

Corlindale
2010-01-27, 10:56 AM
Doesn't mean I can't help out in the here and now. I'm not worried about us killing ourselves off in the potential future. I care about making people's lives better NOW. :)

Exactly :smallsmile:
Whether humanity dies out in 50 years or 50.000 years, any actions we can take that help alleviate the suffering of others are meaningful right now, right here in the present. I don't see how speculations about the uncertainty of the future of mankind would stop us from trying to help people now.

Player_Zero
2010-01-27, 11:05 AM
If it ain't broken don't fix it.

Grey Paladin
2010-01-27, 11:10 AM
Too bad it is.

Player_Zero
2010-01-27, 11:13 AM
Too bad it is.

Nuh uh.

If you take that attitude I might as well say want the world to be a fantasy realm of aliens, espers, time travelers and sliders.

Grey Paladin
2010-01-27, 11:23 AM
The concept of 'what should be' is clearly subjective due to morals being so, but claiming the world doesn't needs to be fixed is the exact equivalent of what I just demonstrated and you kindly dubbed as the 'Nuh uh principle'.

Secondly, sadly science can't create a fantasy realm of aliens, espers, time travelers and sliders. :smalltongue:

Player_Zero
2010-01-27, 11:33 AM
The concept of 'what should be' is clearly subjective due to morals being so, but claiming the world doesn't needs to be fixed is the exact equivalent of what I just demonstrated and you kindly dubbed as the 'Nuh uh principle'.

Secondly, sadly science can't create a fantasy realm of aliens, espers, time travelers and sliders. :smalltongue:

Then I shall name is Zero's principle and people will know my assumed name for centuries! Whenever someone says 'nuh uh' or 'no it isn't' they will think of me.

And science is nothing compared to the power of imagination. You have to imagine it in order to make it, so creativity is the real science. So as long as I dream that they exist then it's just as good.

Grey Paladin
2010-01-27, 11:56 AM
We'll see about that when I get my science-augumented imagination.

Devils_Advocate
2010-01-27, 11:58 PM
Here someone like I feels humanity has no hope, and that we will without a doubt either overpopulate ourselves out of resources/a planet, vaporize ourselves (possibly due to the prior), or otherwise exterminate ourselves.
And that thought doesn't motivate you to actively try to delay that for as long as possible?

Anyway, you're behind the times, man. Haven't you heard of the technological singularity? Civilization as we know it shall be wiped out by continually-accelerating progress, not decline, and I for one look forward to our future hyperintelligent overlords. :smallsmile:

Pika...
2010-01-28, 12:22 AM
And that thought doesn't motivate you to actively try to delay that for as long as possible?

Well, the thing is to do that you need to do the exact opposite of what people consider to be "right". You need to rebalance the birth vs. death rate.

This means not helping in humanitarian causes like the OP desires. It means leaving those who are exposed to natural disasters like the recent one to...well there is no unharsh way of saying it. Leaving them to die. This, and things like not stopping potential plagues like the bird flew fear, and not doing things such as curing cancer would allow the population to lower to a sustainable level. Perhaps indefinitely even. Sadly saying such logic based things makes you out to look like a monster and evil person, though. :/

Rockphed
2010-01-28, 12:33 AM
Well, from what I understand it is only going to be 80ish years until there will be literally no room left on this planet. If it will boil down to survival of the fittest I want as many chance as I can get for my genes (and me through them) to survive.

Simple numbers. :smallsmile:

No, population will likely peak in 20 - 40 years, though I have never looked very hard at the numbers, then it will start to decline. Furthermore, if you are scared of over population, encourage industrialization of developing nations. More importantly, encourage their women to join the industrialized workforce. Women joining the workforce is more closely tied to a decline in fertility rates than just about anything else.

On the other hand, if you look at most western nations, they aren't even having kids at the replacement rate, which, for most of them, is about 2.1 kids per woman lifetime. The US is, to my knowledge, currently sitting at 2.2 kids per woman lifetime, though I have every intention of having a dozen just to spite all the "Over Population is killing the earth"-ists.

Furthermore, there is still plenty of space on the planet. Just look at Canada. Lots of space in the great white north to build. Plus they have plenty of fresh water and are within driving distance of some of the most fertile ground on the planet. If only cities weren't just desert wastelands...

As to the "Fix the world" business, you can totally do it. You just need to start small. Start with yourself. Then try to fix one person at a time. Remember, it is Stalin from red alert who tells us to reduce people to statistics. Don't be evil; don't use statistics!

Corlindale
2010-01-28, 05:34 AM
Furthermore, there is still plenty of space on the planet. Just look at Canada. Lots of space in the great white north to build.

Not only is there still plenty of space, there's also plenty of food and resources (One of the main problems right now is that we use such a disproportionate amount of our crops feeding livestock, which is technically a waste of energy and resources. If we seem to be incapable of feeding the increasing population we might eventually switch away from meat production/consumption, and thereby be able to feed about 9-10 times as many people as we do now with just our current agricultural production.).

And as Rockphed states, it seems that improved living conditions are one of the best ways of reducing birth rates. If you live in a country where infant mortality is extremely high, and there's no social support so you absolutely must have children to help work/look after you when you're old, you can't really afford to take your chances and only get 1 or 2. So the best long-term counter to over-population might well be to improve living conditions for people in the developing countries.
Most of the industrialized countries are just about breaking even in birth-rates, sometimes even less than that, so it's not as if overpopulation is necessarily inevitable. Here in Denmark, for example, underpopulation and too low birthrates is actually a political issue.

Extra_Crispy
2010-01-28, 07:25 AM
I hear you, Syka. 'Tis one of my motivations behind becoming a nurse... I lived in a place where I saw suffering every day that I couldn't do anything about. It gets tiresome when you know what you should to do and yet don't have the skills or resources to do it.

Ahh another nurse in the playground. Nice to know. Ya it was a major reason for me to go into nursing also. Espically after my car accident when I was 18. The nurses helped me greatly and I wanted to return that help to others.

Rockphed
2010-01-29, 04:43 PM
Not only is there still plenty of space, there's also plenty of food and resources (One of the main problems right now is that we use such a disproportionate amount of our crops feeding livestock, which is technically a waste of energy and resources. If we seem to be incapable of feeding the increasing population we might eventually switch away from meat production/consumption, and thereby be able to feed about 9-10 times as many people as we do now with just our current agricultural production.).

Well, there are lots of areas that can support light grazing by animals that cannot support food crops, and there are some nutrients that are most easily acquired from meat, but we aren't anywhere near needing more food that badly. Simply put, there is lots of arable land that we aren't using. There is also lots of almost arable land that it isn't currently worth the effort to make arable. In theory, it might some day become useful to run desalination plants along the Mediterranean coast so that crops in the northern Sahara can be irrigated, but I doubt that will happen in our lifetimes. At any rate, we aren't about to run out of food, no matter what Malthus predicted. Food production rates have been keeping approximately steady per capita for the last 50 years. The real problem will probably be water, and even there the problem is more often sanitation than how much water is currently available. When there really isn't enough water, it normally boils down to people diverting water away from its normal course.

Devils_Advocate
2010-01-30, 02:13 AM
Well, the thing is to do that you need to do the exact opposite of what people consider to be "right".
No, you don't.


You need to rebalance the birth vs. death rate.

This means not helping in humanitarian causes like the OP desires.
No. As others here have pointed out, it means promoting birth control, in part by providing other means of support to people who would normally rely on lots of children taking care of them in their old age.


It means leaving those who are exposed to natural disasters like the recent one to...well there is no unharsh way of saying it. Leaving them to die. This, and things like not stopping potential plagues like the bird flew fear, and not doing things such as curing cancer would allow the population to lower to a sustainable level. Perhaps indefinitely even. Sadly saying such logic based things makes you out to look like a monster and evil person, though. :/
Well, when you excuse your lack of involvement rather than try to figure out how best to help mitigate the world's problems, it does make you look like you don't care. It may be reasonable to think that popular forms of aid actually hurt more than they help, but the leap to the conclusion that it's best to do nothing at all doesn't seem to be based on logic. It seems more like a transparent rationalization to allow you to maintain the belief that you care about the future without having to actually do anything.

I'm generally too lazy to be charitable myself, but I acknowledge that as a significant moral flaw. (I hear that depressed people tend to have more accurate self-images. Cause, effect, or both?)