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Random_person
2010-01-26, 05:51 PM
Deep Meditation [General]
You have learned the art of losing yourself in meditation, and gain mental clarity from this.
Prerequisites: Wisdom 15+, must sleep.
Benefits: As long as you meditate for 1 hour each day, you only need 2 hours of sleep to gain a full night's rest. While meditating, you may not move, but may maintain concentration or cast Still Silent spells.

Temotei
2010-01-26, 06:37 PM
Deep Meditation [General]
You have learned the art of losing yourself in meditation, and gain mental clarity from this.
Prerequisites: Wisdom 15+, must sleep.
Benefits: As long as you meditate for 1 hour each day, you only need 2 hours of sleep to gain a full night's rest. While meditating, you may not move, but may maintain concentration or cast Still Silent spells.

I'd rather have a ring of sustenance, since it costs very little, and it provides the additional benefit of not having to eat or drink. Not only that, but you don't have to meditate, and there's no requirements for wearing it.

You need to up the power.

Random_person
2010-01-26, 07:05 PM
Hmmm. Up the power. Let me see...

Dammit, I can't think of anything. Suggestions? Unless... How about this?

Deep Meditation [General]
You have learned the art of losing yourself in meditation, and gain mental clarity from this.
Prerequisites: Wisdom 15+, must sleep.
Benefits: As long as you meditate for 1 hour each day, you only need 2 hours of sleep to gain a full night's rest. While meditating, you may not move, but may maintain concentration or cast Still Silent spells. While meditating, you gain Fast Healing 1. This does not stack.

Temotei
2010-01-26, 07:11 PM
Hmmm. Up the power. Let me see...

Dammit, I can't think of anything. Suggestions? Unless... How about this?

Deep Meditation [General]
You have learned the art of losing yourself in meditation, and gain mental clarity from this.
Prerequisites: Wisdom 15+, must sleep.
Benefits: As long as you meditate for 1 hour each day, you only need 2 hours of sleep to gain a full night's rest. While meditating, you may not move, but may maintain concentration or cast Still Silent spells. While meditating, you gain Fast Healing 1. This does not stack.

I'd say let it stack with other sources of fast healing. It's only fast healing 1, after all.

Milskidasith
2010-01-26, 07:11 PM
Hmmm. Up the power. Let me see...

Dammit, I can't think of anything. Suggestions? Unless... How about this?

Deep Meditation [General]
You have learned the art of losing yourself in meditation, and gain mental clarity from this.
Prerequisites: Wisdom 15+, must sleep.
Benefits: As long as you meditate for 1 hour each day, you only need 2 hours of sleep to gain a full night's rest. While meditating, you may not move, but may maintain concentration or cast Still Silent spells. While meditating, you gain Fast Healing 1. This does not stack.

Also useless; now it's a wand of lesser vigor and a ring of sustenance, for a feat and a high PB into wisdom.

Random_person
2010-01-26, 07:15 PM
Gah! My old 1e instincts are convincing me that it is too powerful!

Let me try this, then.

Deep Meditation [General]
You have learned the art of losing yourself in meditation, and gain mental clarity from this.
Prerequisites: Wisdom 15+, must sleep.
Benefits: As long as you meditate for 1 hour each day, you only need 2 hours of sleep to gain a full night's rest, and you gain your Wisdom modifier as an insight bonus on initiative checks. While meditating, you may not move or attack, but may maintain concentration or cast Still Silent spells. You also gain Fast Healing 1, which stacks with all other sources of Fast Healing.

Temotei
2010-01-26, 07:15 PM
Gah! My old 1e instincts are convincing me that it is too powerful!

Let me try this, then.

Deep Meditation [General]
You have learned the art of losing yourself in meditation, and gain mental clarity from this.
Prerequisites: Wisdom 15+, must sleep.
Benefits: As long as you meditate for 1 hour each day, you only need 2 hours of sleep to gain a full night's rest, and you gain your Wisdom modifier as an insight bonus on initiative checks. While meditating, you may not move or attack, but may maintain concentration or cast Still Silent spells. You also gain Fast Healing 1, which stacks with all other sources of Fast Healing.

What Milskidasith said. :smallredface: :smallsigh:

Random_person
2010-01-26, 07:17 PM
Wait, the fact that this is at least as effective as Improved Initiative for clerics/druids, combined with the other stuff, means nothing? Hmmm.

Milskidasith
2010-01-26, 07:22 PM
Wait, the fact that this is at least as effective as Improved Initiative for clerics/druids, combined with the other stuff, means nothing? Hmmm.

I was under the impression you only got your initiative bonus while meditating, and being able to go first at doing nothing/casting spells two levels higher than normal is not particularly worthwhile.

If you get the free initiative boost, then it's a decent filler for anybody who would ever have so many spare feats lying around they'd take improved initiative over, say, +0 metamagic or ways to enter PrCs, but the only class I can think of with that many feats would be a fighter, and they aren't known for their 20+ wisdom scores.

Temotei
2010-01-26, 07:27 PM
I was under the impression you only got your initiative bonus while meditating, and being able to go first at doing nothing/casting spells two levels higher than normal is not particularly worthwhile.

If you get the free initiative boost, then it's a decent filler for anybody who would ever have so many spare feats lying around they'd take improved initiative over, say, +0 metamagic or ways to enter PrCs, but the only class I can think of with that many feats would be a fighter, and they aren't known for their 20+ wisdom scores.

A druid/cleric/other Wisdom-based casting class might want this feat, but mostly just for the initiative bonus. The meditation is a slight boost.

At level 1, assuming Wisdom 15 (elite array), you get +2 on initiative, plus the other small benefits of the feat.
Level 4: +3 on initiative, plus small non-scaling benefits.
Level 12: +4 on initiative--it's now strictly better than Improved Initiative, unless you already have an insight bonus to initiative (unlikely).
Level 20: +5 on initiative and small non-scaling bonuses. Decent, but not awesome. A solid filler, as Milskidasith has pointed out. I like Improved Initiative, so if I rolled well on Wisdom (16+), I'd probably take this.

I also thought the initiative was only while meditating, which, in hindsight, is a dumb assumption. :smallredface:

Random_person
2010-01-26, 07:54 PM
Hmmm. This feat was specifically crafted for a PbP on these forums (run by Frosty), and I'm told that the Init bonus+infinite healing+less sleep is too powerful. That said, I do have a +8 Wis mod already, so he may be justified. How can I trim the Init bonus to reasonable levels?

Jota
2010-01-26, 08:18 PM
A druid/cleric/other Wisdom-based casting class might want this feat, but mostly just for the initiative bonus. The meditation is a slight boost.

At level 1, assuming Wisdom 15 (elite array), you get +2 on initiative, plus the other small benefits of the feat.
Level 4: +3 on initiative, plus small non-scaling benefits.
Level 12: +4 on initiative--it's now strictly better than Improved Initiative, unless you already have an insight bonus to initiative (unlikely).
Level 20: +5 on initiative and small non-scaling bonuses. Decent, but not awesome. A solid filler, as Milskidasith has pointed out. I like Improved Initiative, so if I rolled well on Wisdom (16+), I'd probably take this.

I also thought the initiative was only while meditating, which, in hindsight, is a dumb assumption. :smallredface:

This doesn't account for Wisdom-boosting items, which are a staple for divine casters. With said items, this is easily better than Improved Initiative, which isn't strictly a problem as Improved Initiative is useful, but not an extraordinary feat.

Other than the initiative bit, this is a bit weak, as others have noted. The benefit are undeniable, yet you'll still have to rest 8 hours to prepare spells, so it's primary use seems to be for role-playing aspects, to an extent (not that there's anything wrong with that, but a feats are an integral part of a character's power source, and not many characters can afford to trade them away for minor benefits).

Personally, I would make it a skill trick if it didn't do anything with initiative, but it does, so that's out of wack.

As far as initiative is concerned, if you're determined to keep that aspect, maybe +1 per 3 HD, up to a maximum of your Wisdom modifier. Thus it will eventually be better than Improved Initiative, but it won't be immediately and not everyone will have the Wisdom necessary to reap the full benefits, thus giving each a justifiable place in the game.

Milskidasith
2010-01-26, 09:09 PM
Hmmm. This feat was specifically crafted for a PbP on these forums (run by Frosty), and I'm told that the Init bonus+infinite healing+less sleep is too powerful. That said, I do have a +8 Wis mod already, so he may be justified. How can I trim the Init bonus to reasonable levels?

Frosty either really wants to have monsters who react faster than you, or he doesn't understand that infinite healing and less rest (which doesn't even matter because of how you prep spells, which requires eight hours), is not a huge benefit, and while a solid initiative boost is, well, solid, it's no "I have to pick this up" feat like Natural Spell or Invisible Spell (Invisible Spell is just so god damned useful! Invisible Prismatic Sphere! Invisible Entangle! Invisible Invisibility! Invisible True Seeing! Invisible Wish!*)

*Those are from least to most absurd in how they wind up working out.

Latronis
2010-01-26, 09:31 PM
I'd rather 2hrs of mediatation = no sleep!

DragoonWraith
2010-01-26, 09:47 PM
With Latronis. Just allow two hours of meditation, with the option of taking purely mental actions, replace sleep and spell preparation entirely. That is worth a feat.

Baron Corm
2010-01-26, 09:52 PM
How about:

As a full-round action, you may enter a state of meditation. While meditating, you cannot perform any actions other than purely mental ones. Every ten minutes you meditate counts as one hour of restful sleep. If you meditate for at least ten minutes, you receive an Initiative bonus equal to your Wisdom modifier for 24 hours.

Considering that your DM is probably balancing against current feats, and not the power level of what feats "should be", this should be sufficient. Any more and you're really stepping on the toes of Improved Initiative.