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DiscipleofBob
2010-01-26, 09:55 PM
Dark Knight

I hold no illusions about the sins of my actions here today. There is a special place in hell for the both of us. I'm just sending you and others like you there first.

Dark Knights are feared warriors who've chosen to give their lives for a cause or a deity. Unlike other divine classes, like the paladin, instead of becoming champions in their cause and inspiring faith in their allies, a Dark Knight inspires fear in his enemies. They can be black ops agents for kings, inquisitors for deities, or martyrs willing to complete missions their allies are either too scared or too pure to accomplish.

Unlike a Paladin who might look forward to some sort of divine reward in the end, a Dark Knight is a martyr in the truest sense of the word. They receive no praise, no glory, and usually end up receiving punishment in the afterlife, but it's all part of the job for a Dark Knight, and necessary for the cause. They fight for a world that they know will not accept them in the end.

No one embodies sacrifice and martyrdom more than the Dark Knight. They put so much faith into their cause that they can call upon sinister forces and sacrifice their life force to deal out extra punishment to their enemies.

Sacrifice: Dark Knight daily powers have the Sacrifice keyword. When you use a power with this keyword, you can choose to sacrifice a healing surge. If you do so, you get an effect in addition to the original power's effect as described under the Sacrifice section. You must choose whether or not to spend a healing surge before rolling the attack, and the healing surge is expended regardless of whether or not the attack hits.

Class Traits
Role: Defender, you make sacrifices for the sake of others, whether that means taking hits for your allies, fighting dirty to preserve your allies' honor, or literally sacrificing your vitality to inflict more damage on your enemies, giving you a secondary role of striker.
Power Source: Divine, you fight in the service of a cause, but not as its champion. You do what needs to be done to further your deity's cause, even if your actions are not condoned by said deity. This can mean making strange alliances, committing dishonorable acts, or breaking commandments for the greater cause.
Key Abilities: Strength, Constitution, Wisdom

Armor Proficiencies: Cloth, Leather, Hide, Chain, Scale, Plate, Light Shield, Heavy Shield
Weapon Proficiencies: Simple melee, Military melee, Simple ranged
Bonus to Defense: +1 Fortitude, +1 Will

Hit Points at First Level: 15 + Constitution score
Hit Points per Level Gained: 6
Healing Surges per Day: 10 + Constitution modifier

Trained Skills: Choose four trained skills at first level: Athletics (Strength), Bluff (Charisma), Endurance (Constitution), Heal (Wisdom), Insight (Wisdom), Intimidate (Charisma), Religion (Intelligence), Stealth (Dexterity)

Class Features: Blood Sacrifice, Mark of Darkness, Notoriety, Souleater

Blood Sacrifice: When you strike an opponent, you can use your own blood to augment the damage of the attack. When you successfully hit an opponent with a melee basic attack, you can sacrifice up to your CON modifier in hit points to deal extra damage equal to half the amount of hit points you sacrificed rounded down.

Mark of Darkness: You threaten your enemies not to ignore your power, less they suffer the consequences. At the end of your turn, you can mark the nearest enemy to you until the end of your next turn as a free action. If multiple enemies are equidistant to you, choose one of the enemies nearest to you. That target is marked until the end of your next turn.

If a target marked by you makes an attack that does not include you as a target, you can use one of the following powers as an immediate interrupt:

Retribution of Death
At-Will Divine, Necrotic
Immediate Reaction Ranged 5
Trigger: A target marked by you that does not include you as a target.
Effect: The target takes necrotic damage equal to 5 + your Wisdom or Constitution modifier (chosen at first level). The mark does 10 + your Wisdom or Constitution modifier at 11th level, and 15 + your Wisdom or Constitution modifier at 21st level.

Retribution of War
At-Will Divine, Weapon
Immediate Reaction Melee Weapon
Trigger: A target affected by your Mark of Darkness makes an attack that does not include you as a target.
Effect: You can make a melee basic attack against the target.

Notoriety: Your deeds in the name of your cause make you feared by your enemies. It may not have been your intention, but your enemies recognize you as a force to be reckoned with whether or not they know your name. You are judged by your actions, not your deeds. Select from one of the following class features below to symbolize your Notoriety.

Battlefield Terror: You've survived enough battles that your name is enough to strike fear into the hearts of those who would consider you their enemy. You have a reputation as an unkillable warrior who strikes down those who oppose you. Even when your enemies do wound you, the sight of your resolve is enough to shake them further. When you have used your Second Wind in an encounter and you are bloodied, you gain your Constitution modifier as a bonus on melee damage rolls. You can use your Constitution modifier in place of your Charisma modifier for Intimidate checks. You also get access to the Retribution of Famine ability.

Retribution of Famine
At-Will Divine, Necrotic
Immediate Interrupt Ranged 5
Trigger: A target marked by you makes an attack that does not include you as a target.
Effect: The target takes a penalty to the damage it deals equal to your Constitution modifier until the end of your next turn.
Special: You may sacrifice a healing surge to use this ability as a free action at the start of your turn without the usual trigger. You may only use one of your Retribution powers per turn this way.

Shadow Warrior: You've concocted many secret missions in the name of your cause, often leaving no witnesses or survivors as the situation warranted. These deeds have turned you into a ghost story told among your enemies, and though details about you aren't well-known, your reputation precedes you. When you have used your Second Wind this encounter and you are bloodied, you gain your Wisdom modifier as a bonus to opportunity attack rolls . In addition, you can use your Wisdom modifier in place of your Dexterity modifier on Stealth checks.

Retribution of Pestilence
At-Will Divine, Poison
Immediate Interrupt Ranged 5
Trigger: A target within range affected by your Mark of Darkness makes an attack that does not include you as a target.
Effect: The target takes poison damage equal to your Wisdom modifier each time it deals damage to a target until the end of your next turn.
Special: You may sacrifice a healing surge to use this ability as a free action at the start of your turn without the usual trigger. You may only use one of your Retribution powers per turn this way.


Soul Eater: You gain access to the Soul Eater power.

Soul Eater
Daily Divine, Necrotic
Standard Action Close burst 2
Target: Each enemy in burst.
Requirement: You must spend a healing surge to use this ability.
Attack: Strength vs. Will
Damage: 2d6 + Strength modifier necrotic damage.
Special: You can use this power a number of times per day equal to your 1 plus your Wisdom modifier but only once per encounter. At 11th level, this attack deals 4d6 + Strength modifier necrotic damage. At 21st level, this attack deals 6d6 + Strength necrotic modifier damage.

DiscipleofBob
2010-01-26, 09:56 PM
At-Will Powers
Crippling Strike
At-Will Divine, Weapon
Standard Action Melee weapon
Target: One creature
Attack: Strength vs. AC
Damage: 1[W] + Strength modifier damage, and the target takes a -2 penalty to attack rolls until the end of your next turn.

Gravity Blade
At-Will Divine, Weapon
Standard Action Melee 2
Target: One creature
Attack: Strength vs. AC
Damage: 1[W] + Strength modifier damage, and you pull the target 1 square.

Shadow Strike
At-Will Divine, Necrotic, Weapon
Standard Action Melee weapon
Target: One creature
Attack: Strength vs. AC
Damage: 1[W] + Strength modifier + Wisdom modifier necrotic damage.

Vampiric Strike
At-Will Divine, Weapon
Standard Action Melee weapon
Target: One creature
Attack: Strength vs.AC
Damage: 1[W] + Strength modifier damage, and you gain temporary hit points equal your Constitution modifier.

Encounter 1
Enclosing Strike
Your fierce swings at your enemy force them to move right where you want them.
Encounter Divine, Weapon
Standard Action Melee weapon
Attack: Strength vs. Reflex
Damage: 2[W] + Strength modifier damage, and you can slide the target a number of squares equal to your Wisdom modifier, as long as the target ends up in a space no more than 1 square beyond your reach.

Merciless Strike
You show no mercy by striking at your enemies wounds.
Encounter Divine, Weapon
Standard Action Melee weapon
Attack: Strength vs. AC
Damage: 2[W] + Strength modifier damage, or 3[W] + Strength modifier damage if your target is bloodied.

Shade Over Hope
A wave of shadow envelops your weapon as you slash across your enemy's eyes, the shadow lingering, temporarily blinding them.
Encounter Divine, Necrotic, Weapon
Standard Action Melee weapon
Target: One creature
Attack: Strength vs. AC
Damage: 2[W] + Strength modifier necrotic damage, and the target is blinded until the end of your next turn.
Shadow Warrior: You can instead choose to blind the target (save ends)

Terror Rush
You charge into the front line of your enemies.
Encounter Divine, Weapon
Standard Action Melee weapon
Target: One creature
Attack: Strength vs. AC
Damage: 2[W] + Strength modifier damage, and each enemy adjacent to the target takes damage equal to your Strength modifier.
Special: You can use this power on a charge in place of a basic melee attack.
Battlefield Terror: You instead deal 1[W] + your Strength modifier damage to each adjacent target.

Daily 1
Darkness Strike
You draw upon the darkness you've inflicted on other enemies to smite the one in front of you.
Daily Divine, Sacrifice, Necrotic, Weapon
Standard Action Melee weapon
Attack: Strength vs. AC
Damage: 2[W] + Strength modifier necrotic damage, or 3[W] + Strength modifier necrotic damage if you have a different enemy marked.
Miss: Half damage.
Sacrifice: You can make the same attack against one target within 2 squares of your original target.


Dishonorable Duel
By engaging your opponent in combat, you've created an opening for your allies to exploit.
Daily Standard, Sacrifice, Weapon
Standard Action Melee weapon
Attack: Strength vs. Reflex
Damage: 2[W] + Strength modifier damage, and an ally adjacent to the target can make a melee basic attack against the target.
Miss: Half damage, and one ally adjacent to the target can make a melee basic attack against the target.
Sacrifice: The target grants combat advantage until the end of your next turn and for the ally's attack granted by this power.

Inevitable Fate
Your powerful strike trades your blood for your enemy's.
Daily Standard, Sacrifice, Reliable, Weapon
Standard Action Melee weapon
Attack: Strength vs. AC
Damage: 2[W] + Strength modifier damage.
Sacrifice: You instead deal 4[W] + Strength modifier damage.

Whirling Strike
The blow from your weapon sends your target reeling and leaves them disoriented.
Daily Standard, Sacrifice, Weapon
Standard Action Melee Weapon
Attack: Strength vs. Fortitude
Damage: 2[W] + Strength modifier damage, and the target is dazed until the end of your next turn.
Miss: Half damage.
Sacrifice: The target is dazed (save ends)

Utility 2
Intimidating Presence
Those around you suddenly realize just how scary you are.
Encounter Divine
Minor Action Personal
You gain a +5 bonus to Intimidate checks made until the end of your next turn.

Divert Attack
You block the attack meant for your ally with your own body as a shield
Encounter Divine
Immediate Interrupt
Trigger: An ally of yours gets attacked by an enemy within melee reach of you.
Effect: The enemy's attack targets you instead.

Zone of Darkness
You create a web of shadows around you that conceals your allies in darkness and blinds your enemies.
Daily Divine, Zone
Standard Action Close Burst 2
Effect: You create a zone of shadows that provides concealment to any ally within the zone and gives any enemies within the zone a -2 to attack. Until the zone disappears, it moves with you as the origin square. The zone of darkness does not hamper your or your allies' ability to attack, nor does it give your opponents concealment. The zone lasts until the end of your next turn.
Minor: The zone persists.

Encounter 3
Despair Strike
Once you've struck your target, there's no escape for them.
Encounter Divine, Weapon
Standard Action Melee weapon
Attack: Strength vs. AC
Damage: 2[W] + Strength modifier damage, and the target is slowed until the end of your next turn
Battlefield Terror: The target is slowed and cannot shift until the end of your next turn.

Hamstring Assault
You strike your foe's limbs to hamper their movement.
Encounter Divine, Weapon
Standard Action Melee weapon
Attack: Strength vs. AC
Damage: 2[W] + Strength modifier damage, and the target is immobilized (save ends).
First Save: The target is slowed (save ends).

Horror Strike
Your foes recoil in horror at your might.
Encounter Divine, Fear, Weapon
Standard Action Close Burst 1
Attack: Strength vs. Will
Damage: 1[W] + Strength modifier psychic damage, and each target takes a penalty to their attack equal to your Constitution modifier.

Serpentine Strike
You twist your power into a poison that seeps into your enemy's veins.
Encounter Divine, Poison, Weapon
Standard Action Melee weapon
Target: One creature
Attack: Strength vs. Fortitude
Damage: 1[W] + Strength modifier poison damage, and the target takes ongoing poison damage equal to your Wisdom modifier (save ends).
Shadow Warrior: If you are adjacent to the target when the target saves against this effect, you can make a secondary attack as an immediate interrupt.
Secondary Attack: Strength vs. Fortitude
Secondary Damage: The target instead fails its save against the ongoing damage.


Daily 5
Cursed Challenge
The darkness you call upon your enemy proves stronger and more persistent than before.
Daily Divine, Weapon
Standard Action Melee weapon
Target: One creature
Attack: Strength vs. AC
Damage: 2[W] + Strength modifier damage, and the target is marked until the end of your next turn.
Miss: Half damage, and the target is marked until the start of your next turn.
Sacrifice: Until the end of the encounter, when a mark you have on a target is ended by an ability, you can mark the enemy nearest to the target as a free action.


Ebony Slash
Your blade swells with necrotic energy, which seeps into your enemy's wound.
Daily Divine, Necrotic, Weapon
Standard Action Melee weapon
Target: One creature
Attack: Strength vs. Fortitude
Damage: 3[W] + Strength modifier necrotic damage.
Sacrifice: The target gains vulnerability 5 necrotic (save ends)

Dark Javelin Strike
You throw your weapon, but use your power to guide its trajectory to strike your opponent.
Daily Divine, Weapon
Standard Action Ranged 5
Target: One creature
Requirement: You must throw your weapon at the target.
Attack: Strength vs. AC
Damage: 3[W] + Strength modifier damage.
Sacrifice: You can make this same attack against one other target within 5 squares of the target.


Utility 6
Shadow Step
Shadows envelop your body and you vanish, only to reappear nearby.
Daily Divine
Move Action
Effect: You teleport up to 10 squares, and have concealment until the end of this turn.

Reckless Abandonment
You suppress your survival instinct and leave yourself open to attack... or do you?
Daily Divine, Stance
Minor Action Personal
Effect: Until the stance ends, you grant combat advantage to enemies, and whenever you are hit with a melee attack, you can make a melee basic attack as an opportunity action.

Dirty Fighting
Allies gain combat advantage against marked target.
Encounter Divine
Minor Action Ranged 5
Target: One target you have marked.
Effect: The target grants combat advantage to your allies until the end of your next turn.


Visage of Terror
Your attacks cause your enemies to recoil in horror.
Daily Divine, Fear
Standard Action Close Blast 5
Target: All enemies in blast.
Effect: Until the end of your next turn, every time you use one of your Dark Knight powers, each affected target is moves 2 squares away from you.

Encounter 7
Darkness Counter
A wave of darkness shields your ally from an enemy's attack and strikes back at them.
Encounter Divine, Necrotic, Weapon
Immediate Interrupt Ranged 5
Trigger: One of your allies is hit with an attack.
Target: One creature
Attack: Strength vs. Fortitude
Damage: 2[W] + Strength modifier necrotic damage, and you slide the target a number of squares equal to your Wisdom modifier. If the target is no longer in range of the attack it made on your ally, the attack instead misses.

Illusion Shade
The shadows confound your enemy, causing their attack to strike one of their own.
Encounter Divine, Weapon
Immediate Interrupt Melee weapon
Trigger: You are hit by a melee attack.
Target: One creature
Attack: Strength vs. Reflex
Damage: You take no damage from the attack. Instead, the damage is dealt to your attacker.

Seismic Strike
The sheer force of your strike sends nearby enemies reeling.
Encounter Divine, Thunder, Weapon
Standard Action Melee weapon
Target: One creature
Attack: Strength vs. AC
Damage: 2[W] + Strength modifier damage, and each enemy adjacent to the target takes thunder damage equal to your Constitution modifier and are pushed 1 square.
Battlefield Terror: Adjacent enemies to the target instead take 1[W] + Constution modifier thunder damage and are pushed 2 squares.

Weapon Shadow
Your weapon lunges with the shape of its shadow, extending its reach.
Encounter Divine, Weapon
Standard Action Melee 2
Target: One creature
Attack: Strength vs. AC
Damage: 2[W] + Strength modifier damage.

Daily 9
Black Hole Blade
Your blade becomes a vacuum of darkness, drawing in your enemies.
Daily Divine, Necrotic, Sacrifice, Weapon
Standard Action Close Burst 3
Target: All enemies in burst
Attack: Strength vs. Reflex
Damage: 3[W] + Strength modifier necrotic damage, and you can pull the target 2 squares.
Miss: Half damage, and each target is pulled 1 square
Sacrifice: Until the end of the encounter, any target that you dealt damage to with this power can be pulled 1 square at the start of your turn as a free action.

Bladed Net of Darkness
The shadows from your blade weave a trap to restrain your enemy.
Daily Divine, Necrotic, Sacrifice, Weapon
Standard Action Melee weapon
Target: One creature
Attack: Strength vs. AC
Damage: 2[W] + Strength modifier necrotic damage, and the target is immobilized (save ends).
Sacrifice: The target is instead stunned (save ends).

Dark Scorpion Strike
You infuse your blade with corrupt necrotic energy for a devastating attack.
Daily Divine, Necrotic, Sacrifice, Weapon
Standard Action Melee weapon
Target: One creature
Attack: Strength vs. Fortitude
Damage: 3[W] + Strength modifier necrotic damage, plus 5 ongoing necrotic damage (save ends)
Sacrifice: The target also takes 5 ongoing poison damage (save ends both)

Repulsion Strike
Unseen forces repel the enemy from your weapon.
Daily Divine, Sacrifice, Weapon
Standard Action Melee weapon
Target: One creature
Attack: Strength vs. AC
Damage: 3[W] + Strength modifier damage, and you can push the target a number of squares equal to your Constitution modifier.
Sacrifice: Until the end of the encounter, if you hit the target with a melee attack, you can push it 1 square.

Utility 10
Dark Armor
The shadows are infused into your armor.
Daily Divine
Minor Action Personal
Requirement: You must spend a healing surge to use this ability, but gain no hit points.
Effect: You gain a +2 bonus to your AC until the end of the encounter.

Missile Parry
You effortlessly deflect the long-ranged attack.
Encounter Divine
Immediate Interrupt Personal
Trigger: An enemy tries to attack you with a ranged attack.
Effect: The enemy takes a -4 penalty to the attack.

Shield of Shadow
You conjure a layer of shadow to conceal yourself or an ally.
Encounter Divine
Minor Action Close Burst 5
Target: You or one ally in burst.
Effect: The target gains concealment until the end of your next turn.

Shroud of Sanctuary
Your hulking frame provides cover for your adjacent allies.
Daily Divine, Stance
Minor Action Personal
Effect: Until the end of the stance, any allies adjacent to you gain concealment.

Unholy Stride
You move with an unearthly grace, cursing the enemies that dare approach you.
Daily Divine
Move Action Personal
Effect: Move your speed. Any target which makes an opportunity attack on you, whether it hits or misses, is marked by you.

DiscipleofBob
2010-01-26, 10:00 PM
Feats

Heroic Tier

Action Sacrifice
Tier: Heroic
Prerequisites: Dark Knight
When you spend an action point to make an extra attack with a power with the Sacrifice keyword, you can sacrifice an additional healing surge in order to gain a bonus to the damage roll equal to your Strength modifier.

Blackest Night
Tier: Heroic
Prerequisites: Dark Knight, Mark of Darkness class feature
If you or an ally attacks a target afflicted with your Mark of Darkness with an attack with the radiant keyword, the attack gets a +2 bonus to the damage roll.

Blackbeard Tenacity
Tier: Heroic
Prerequisites: Dwarf, Dark Knight
If an effect from an adjacent foe would normally force you to move through a pull, push, or slide, and you do not move any squares from said effect, you can push the target 1 square and shift 1 square to a space adjacent to it.

Curse of Soul:
Tier: Heroic
Prerequisites: Dark Knight, Souleater class feature
Any target you hit with your Souleater ability takes a -1 penalty to its attack rolls and all of its defenses until the start of your next turn.

Dark Flux Capacitor
Tier: Heroic
Prerequisites: Warforged, Dark Knight, Warforged Resolve class feature
When you use your Warforged Resolve racial ability, you gain a +1 bonus to attack rolls until the end of your next turn.

Soul Reaper
Tier: Heroic
Prerequisites: Dark Knight
If you are using a two-handed weapon, when you use your Blood Sacrifice ability, gain +1 to damage.

Mando Knight
2010-01-26, 10:42 PM
The... soul of this class makes me say that it ought to go under the Shadow power source (and its powers would thus be called "Hexes") rather than the Divine one. I understand the fluff you put up to fit it under the Divine source, it just feels more natural to me to slip it in with Shadow.

DiscipleofBob
2010-01-26, 11:07 PM
I did think about the Shadow power source, and in the future I might alter the fluff and make it a Shadow power source, but all the information I have on Shadow is one class preview. Once more info is released and more Shadow classes are revealed, I'm definitely considering it.

Pramxnim
2010-01-27, 02:36 AM
Retribution of War seems too powerful a power on a Defender. Essentially this allows you two attacks at one creature after you have marked it and stayed adjacent to it. This is quite the power to use on Solos and Elites, and you can always mark the creature again on your turn. I understand the reasoning behind the power (that it provides incentive for the enemy to get away from you and violate your mark another way) but the free MBA may prove to be too much, especially with powers that can be used as MBAs (that a Half-Elf would get, or any Hybrid class).

DiscipleofBob
2010-01-27, 09:56 AM
Retribution of War seems too powerful a power on a Defender.

I'm not sure I see how, as 3 out of 4 of the current Defenders get either a free melee basic attack or a free At-Will that does more when their marks go off. Heck, the Swordmage allows you to teleport first and the Warden's makes the enemy grants combat advantage in addition to the damage.

Another thing to consider is that a Dark Knight can choose whether or not to discharge the mark to get the effect. If he does, he gets the effect off and the enemy is more discouraged from attacking an ally. If he doesn't, well it means that the enemy gets a -2 to attack but no other ill effect, but the Dark Knight can start getting multiple marks on the field. So if the Dark Knight wants to get multiple marks out, it can be a better idea to not use the At-Wills just yet.

Pramxnim
2010-01-27, 03:09 PM
The problem as I see it is, the Dark Knight has a lot more control on when he can punish his mark. The enemy doesn't have to make an attack that doesn't include him as a target to be punished. In a one-on-one duel, the Dark Knight essentially gets an additional attack every round, one that is boosted by his Con mod to boot (If the enemy stays next to him, and there are more than enough ways to ensure that via difficult terrain etc.). In essence, his DPR can be higher than a Ranger's, which is not quite intended for a Defender.

For other Defenders, when their mark is unable to attack, they cannot punish it with their mark ability, but the Dark Knight can still, and this means he can ramp up the damage on a single target provided a very easy to achieve condition (that the monster he marked is adjacent or within range of a Reach Weapon). This makes the Retribution of War ability very powerful. I would suggest changing it to allow him to make an attack against the enemy's Reflex or Will. On a hit, the target can't shift (or loses its move action). This makes the Dark Knight sticky, and the enemy will be forced to attack him or eat an OA as it moves away (or lose a standard action to shift, if you choose to let it lose its move action). That would bring it close in line with other Defenders.

If you do so, you may want to increase the damage on his Blood Mark ability. 5 + Con or Wis is weaker than a Paladin's Divine Challenge, and requires you to end the mark. I know you kept it weak to account for the other two abilities, but with the nerf on Retribution of War, it's safe to increase the damage by a little bit.

DiscipleofBob
2010-01-27, 03:52 PM
Hm... I could probably change it to just actual damage instead of a MBA. That should eliminate damage from getting too high. As far as one-on-one duels, considering the nature of 4e, I'm less worried about their performance in a one-on-one duel and more concerned about them being balanced in a party. After all, the Dark Knight is meant to be a secondary striker as well as a primary defender.

I had to read that last paragraph again. I must be missing something, because I had meant for the Blood Mark damage to be MORE than the Paladin's, but not obnoxiously so. Paladins get 3+Cha, while the Dark Knight gets 5+Con or Wis (so high stat no matter what build), scaling appropriately. Am I missing something?

As far as all the extra damage goes, keep in mind that each damage boost comes at the cost of hit points or a healing surge. Sure a Dark Knight can get pretty high damage, but he'll quickly run out of hit points and healing if he does so. And with most leaders having limited healing or healing that relies on their target's healing surges, this can leave the Dark Knight high and dry if they're reckless. At least that's what I intended for the class.

Is DPR really better than a Ranger? If so, that's definitely not what I intended.

P.S. BTW, thanks for the input.

Mando Knight
2010-01-27, 04:10 PM
Paladin's Divine Challenge/Sanction damage scales, since it's Cha (+Str/Wis with feats: Str for DC, Wis for DS) +3 per tier.

The problem here is that the guy can activate the mark powers when the target doesn't fight the others. None of the other Defenders can do that except through encounter and daily powers that generally shore up their own defenses. If the Dark Knight has a solid MBA, then the enemy will quickly figure out that he's better off not attacking the Defender because then the Defender will actually hurt him less each turn when he ignores the mark. Doing that is the exact opposite of the intent of the Defender role.

DiscipleofBob
2010-01-27, 04:27 PM
Paladin's Divine Challenge/Sanction damage scales, since it's Cha (+Str/Wis with feats: Str for DC, Wis for DS) +3 per tier.

The problem here is that the guy can activate the mark powers when the target doesn't fight the others. None of the other Defenders can do that except through encounter and daily powers that generally shore up their own defenses. If the Dark Knight has a solid MBA, then the enemy will quickly figure out that he's better off not attacking the Defender because then the Defender will actually hurt him less each turn when he ignores the mark. Doing that is the exact opposite of the intent of the Defender role.

[/smacks self]

Okay, completely my bad. I somehow remembered to scale Souleater but not the Mark of Darkness ability in the text. Should be fixed now. I also changed Retribution of War so it's an actual attack instead of an MBA, so that should prevent some of the potential exploitation.

The conceptual idea behind the Dark Knight's mark ability is that the Dark Knight will punish you if you attack his allies. But even if you don't, the Dark Knight fights dirty and has the option of punishing you anyway.

I don't mind changing the actual consequences of such (ie. the At-Wills) but I do want the same general idea and the ability to at least deal at least some damage with the mark for flavor reasons. Any suggestions?

Yakk
2010-01-27, 04:37 PM
1: I'd avoid world events in fluff. "Your actions have generated notoriety" ...

2: Your mark mechanics are doing greater-than-striker damage output on your marked target.


Blood Sacrifice: When you strike an opponent, you can use your own blood to augment the damage of the attack. When you successfully hit an opponent with a melee basic attack, you can sacrifice up to your CON modifier in hit points to deal extra damage equal to the amount of hit points you sacrificed.
This? Near striker-level damage output alone. Admittedly restricted to basic melee attacks, which makes it very strange -- are you sure you meant basic?

Mark of Darkness: You threaten your enemies not to ignore your power, less they suffer the consequences. Once per turn as a minor action, you may mark a target within 5 squares with your Mark of Darkness. A marked enemy takes a -2 penalty to attacks that do not include you as a target.
No duration on it. No statement that it fades if you use it somewhere else.

I don't know if these are intended.

When a target marked by your Mark of Darkness makes an attack that does not include you as a target, you may end the mark to inflict damage equal to 5 + your Wisdom or Constitution modifier (chosen at first level.) The mark does 10 + your Wisdom or Constitution modifier at 11th level, and 15 + your Wisdom or Constitution modifier at 21st level.
Much larger than Paladin mark. Because?

At the beginning of your turn as a free action, you can use one of the following powers on a target afflicted by your Mark of Darkness.

Retribution of Famine
At-Will Necrotic
Free Action Divine, lose Burst 5
Target: One creature in burst affected by your Mark of Darkness.
Effect: The target is weakened until the end of your next turn. The target is no longer marked.
Special: You may use this power only at the beginning of your turn and only on a target affected by your Mark of Darkness.
Holy! That is ridiculously strong.

What is worse is that it only goes off if the marked creature attacks you. Which makes it a very non-defender power.

Retribution of War
At-Will Divine, Necrotic
Free Action Melee Weapon
Target: One creature in melee range afflicted by your Mark of Darkness.
Attack: Strength vs. Will
Damage: 1[W] + Strength modifier damage.
Special: You may use this power only at the beginning of your turn and only on a target affected by your Mark of Darkness.
This, all by itself, is a striker-level damage power.

Basically as a minor action you deal (Tier*5)+Stat auto-damage, or get a Weapon vs Will 1[W]+Str damage attack on it. That makes striker damage bonuses look like junk. And that is ignoring the -2 to hit on targets not you.


Battlefield Terror: You've survived enough battles that your name is enough to strike fear into the hearts of those who would consider you their enemy. You have a reputation as an unkillable warrior who strikes down those who oppose you. Even when your enemies do wound you, the sight of your resolve is enough to shake them further. When you are bloodied, you add your Constitution modifier to your melee damage rolls. You can use your Constitution modifier in place of your Charisma modifier for Intimidate checks.
Oh wow! Another near striker-level feature. This matches the primary striker feature of the sorcerer class pre-paragon.

You do have to be bloodied, which is the only problem.

Shadow Warrior: You've concocted many secret missions in the name of your cause, often leaving no witnesses or survivors as the situation warranted. These deeds have turned you into a ghost story told among your enemies, and though details about you aren't well-known, your reputation precedes you. You gain your Wisdom modifier to damage on opportunity attacks. In addition, you can use your Wisdom modifier in place of your Dexterity modifier on Stealth checks.
Only on OAs. And also a damage bonus.

Soul Eater: You gain access to the Soul Eater power.

Soul Eater
Daily Divine, Necrotic
Standard Action Close burst 2
Target: Each enemy in burst.
Requirement: You must spend a healing surge to use this ability.
Attack: Strength vs. Will
Damage: 2d6 + Strength modifier necrotic damage.
Special: You can use this power a number of times per day equal to your 1 plus your Wisdom modifier but only once per encounter. At 11th level, this attack deals 4d6 + Strength modifier necrotic damage. At 21st level, this attack deals 6d6 + Strength necrotic modifier damage.[/quote]
So this is a kind of pseudo-paladin mirror thing?

...

The Defender's strength and weakness is tied to the mark rules. Marks punish you if you don't attack the Defender.

This justifies the Mark being much stronger than, say, striker damage features -- because the monster is instead attacking the marker.

This encourages you to build a defender that has great defence.

On the other hand, this character punishes regardless of the opponents action. This is a striker style feature -- unconditional punishment -- not a defender style feature.

If you re using striker style features, you are a striker. You don't get defender-level mark punishment. You get fewer HP per level. You get lower AC by design, by +2 to +3 compared to a Defender.

A secondary role of striker does not justify unconditional punishment features that outpace real strikers.

DiscipleofBob
2010-01-27, 05:09 PM
This? Near striker-level damage output alone. Admittedly restricted to basic melee attacks, which makes it very strange -- are you sure you meant basic?


Yes, but if this ability was used on every attack, the Dark Knight would run out of hit points very quickly. The more damage you deal, the more hit points you lose. In early levels, this can mean quickly dying. At higher levels, the damage should not scale with other strikers.

Once again, this is my intention with the ability. If the math does not support it, please let me know, and if you know a solution to fix it, I'm all ears.

As far as the basic attack, I originally meant any attack, but if the increase is as bad as you say, I will need to limit when this ability can be used.



No duration on it. No statement that it fades if you use it somewhere else.

I don't know if these are intended.


Yes. This is intended. My intention is that, as a Dark Knight, you do have the option of marking multiple targets, which would help with certain Dark Knight powers later. However, the Dark Knight's mark ability means removing a mark. So it's an element of strategy for the player.



Much larger than Paladin mark. Because?


I'll admit the Dark Knight is definitely a parallel to the Paladin. Whereas the Paladin is a secondary leader with lots of buffs and healing for allies, the Dark Knight is supposed to be the opposite: causing extra damage to the enemy. For that reason, the damage is larger. That, and the mark is discharged if the damage is removed.



Holy! That is ridiculously strong.

What is worse is that it only goes off if the marked creature attacks you. Which makes it a very non-defender power.

This, all by itself, is a striker-level damage power.

Basically as a minor action you deal (Tier*5)+Stat auto-damage, or get a Weapon vs Will 1[W]+Str damage attack on it. That makes striker damage bonuses look like junk. And that is ignoring the -2 to hit on targets not you.


Hm... Well, once again the idea is even if the enemy doesn't attack your allies, the Dark Knight plays dirty and deals a different sort of punishment. While I want to keep the same idea, I can redo these abilities.



Oh wow! Another near striker-level feature. This matches the primary striker feature of the sorcerer class pre-paragon.

You do have to be bloodied, which is the only problem.

Only on OAs. And also a damage bonus.


So these are okay? Sorry, sometimes it's hard to tell when you're just commenting and whether or not items need to be changed.



So this is a kind of pseudo-paladin mirror thing?


Basically. It's definitely supposed to be reminiscent of the Paladin without being just a copy and having a much different power set and focus.



The Defender's strength and weakness is tied to the mark rules. Marks punish you if you don't attack the Defender.

This justifies the Mark being much stronger than, say, striker damage features -- because the monster is instead attacking the marker.

This encourages you to build a defender that has great defence.

On the other hand, this character punishes regardless of the opponents action. This is a striker style feature -- unconditional punishment -- not a defender style feature.

If you re using striker style features, you are a striker. You don't get defender-level mark punishment. You get fewer HP per level. You get lower AC by design, by +2 to +3 compared to a Defender.

A secondary role of striker does not justify unconditional punishment features that outpace real strikers.

Well, the class is definitely supposed to be a defender, secondary striker. I'm aware that the mark concept for this class breaks tradition, and I'm comfortable with that and don't think it breaks the balance. However, if the actual 'punishment' is too much for the class, I'm more than open to scaling that back or coming up with the alternatives. I'm especially okay with redoing the 'Retribution' powers if they're too powerful, but once again, I do want to keep the general mark idea.

Yakk
2010-01-27, 05:51 PM
What about the class and the classes' features encourages opponents to attack the class, and not the classes allies?

The mark is intended to encourage opponents to attack the defender. Traditionally, through higher defences HP and surges, the defender also makes this a bad idea.

So those are the two features that pair up for a defender: higher defence, together with punishment if you don't attack the defender.

Your class has high defence, high offence, punishes people for attacking the defender, and punishes people for not attacking the defender.

That is fundamentally broken as a collection of features.

Strikers: medium defence, often punishes opponents for attacking them, high offence.

Controllers: low defence, creates lose-lose "choices" for opponents.

Leaders: medium defence, boosts allies.

Defender: high defence, punishes opponents who don't attack it.

Your class creates lose-lose choices with high defence and high damage. The only key feature out of any of the 4 roles you are missing is "boosts allies".

Characters can push themselves out of the above slots -- you can build a high-defence controller -- but those aren't the default settings for the class.

In short: Where is your classes fundamental weakness?


Yes. This is intended. My intention is that, as a Dark Knight, you do have the option of marking multiple targets, which would help with certain Dark Knight powers later. However, the Dark Knight's mark ability means removing a mark. So it's an element of strategy for the player.
Until end of the encounter might also be better. A range limit might be better.

As written, you mark an opponent, and then 7 days later it attacks a peasant, and you deal damage to it.

...

Note that your class, as written, has 3 different ways to do near striker-level damage boost to opponents, all going off on the same target.

They can take con to deal con, they get con bonus when bloodied, and they deal 5+con (or a free vs-will basic attack) once per round as a minor action.

Your "secondary striker" out-damages strikers by a large margin.

That is what the "oh wows" where about.

DiscipleofBob
2010-01-27, 07:01 PM
What about the class and the classes' features encourages opponents to attack the class, and not the classes allies?

The mark is intended to encourage opponents to attack the defender. Traditionally, through higher defences HP and surges, the defender also makes this a bad idea.

So those are the two features that pair up for a defender: higher defence, together with punishment if you don't attack the defender.

Your class has high defence, high offence, punishes people for attacking the defender, and punishes people for not attacking the defender.

That is fundamentally broken as a collection of features.

Strikers: medium defence, often punishes opponents for attacking them, high offence.

Controllers: low defence, creates lose-lose "choices" for opponents.

Leaders: medium defence, boosts allies.

Defender: high defence, punishes opponents who don't attack it.

Your class creates lose-lose choices with high defence and high damage. The only key feature out of any of the 4 roles you are missing is "boosts allies".

Characters can push themselves out of the above slots -- you can build a high-defence controller -- but those aren't the default settings for the class.

In short: Where is your classes fundamental weakness?

The Dark Knight's fundamental weakness, besides the lack of any self-healing abilities other than a small temp. hp at-will, is the fact that most of its class features, as well as the full potential of its daily powers, require the Dark Knight to lose hit points and healing surges in order to work.



Until end of the encounter might also be better. A range limit might be better.

As written, you mark an opponent, and then 7 days later it attacks a peasant, and you deal damage to it.

Fair enough. Oversight on my part. Consider it done.




Note that your class, as written, has 3 different ways to do near striker-level damage boost to opponents, all going off on the same target.

They can take con to deal con, they get con bonus when bloodied, and they deal 5+con (or a free vs-will basic attack) once per round as a minor action.

Your "secondary striker" out-damages strikers by a large margin.

That is what the "oh wows" where about.

All right, let's take these one at a time...

The first I don't see a fundamental flaw with, though I've considered upping the HP cost to make it more of a trade-off. Say, 2 HP per extra damage instead.

The second admittedly was hastily thought out and I have a solution to tone it down, just need to implement it.

The latter I don't see as that broken, nor do I find it as high damage as any Striker I've seen. 5+Con/Wis damage is more than the Paladin's, but that's just fitting the class role, flavor, etc. and comes with the drawback of losing the mark. I've changed the latter power from free MBA to just regular damage, so no extra MBA exploits, and frankly I don't see one extra attack per round as anything spectacular. Good, but not spectacular.

Also, I have to slightly disagree with your definition of Defender. I'd say it's high hit points, high defenses, and prevents attacks and damage on your allies.

DiscipleofBob
2010-01-27, 07:13 PM
Okay, made some drastic changes which should hopefully fix some of the problems.

1. Blood Sacrifice only adds 1 extra damage per hit point spent. This should change this from a +4 bonus to damage every attack to a +2 bonus to damage while still losing a significant amount of hit points.

2. Both of the Retribution powers require a healing surge to use. This fits the flavor, since the Dark Knight should give up something in order to 'fight dirty' and limits them both quite a bit.

3. The Notoriety class features work a bit differently. Instead of adding CON and WIS to damage under their respective conditions, they gain a bonus equal to the number of marks they currently have. This places a larger focus on the advantage of having multiple marks out and discourages discharging the marks right away.

Yakk
2010-01-27, 08:06 PM
The Dark Knight's fundamental weakness, besides the lack of any self-healing abilities other than a small temp. hp at-will, is the fact that most of its class features, as well as the full potential of its daily powers, require the Dark Knight to lose hit points and healing surges in order to work.
/shrug, then your class is fundamentally broken.

That fundamental weakness isn't something that another member of the group "fills in". The fundamental weakness of 4e classes are supposed to be reasons to depend on other members of your party.

"I use my resources really quickly, resulting in me needing a rest, but until then am more awesome than everyone" is not a weakness. It is a spot-light stealing feature, it is a pacing problem with the class, it is many things. Sure, there is the alternative of "I am always more awesome than everyone", but being worse than that isn't a weakness. :-)

The role mechanics of 4e are intended so that each character fullfills a role in the party, and people who fullfill other roles are fundamentally better at their roles. This class is only a defender in that it has an ability that it incidentally has a mark and it has defender-level HP and healing surges, and defender-level AC.

The fact that most of your features are built around dealing damage to other people is a sign you want the class to be a full-on striker. Even the fighter, the most offensive of defenders, has only 1 feature that is about "I kill it dead" -- combat talent (and the replacements). Every other feature is about "if you attack my friends, you are in trouble".

Distill the class down to 1 feature that is striker-esque. Everything else should be defender-esque. Don't make the disadvantage "I burn resources faster", that is a problem, not a legitimate method of balancing a class.

Many of the other features would be fine as powers (be they utility or encounter or daily attack powers), rather than as features.

A daily attack stance where you take damage whenever you hit a target, and so do they -- good, and it takes from your 'bloodclaw' class feature and stuffs it into a striker-leaning daily power.

DiscipleofBob
2010-01-27, 08:30 PM
Well, I guess that's a point on which we'll have to disagree, and it may be due to a difference in general play-styles and outlook on the game.

Regardless, thank you for pointing out some glaring balance issues with the class. I think it's been largely improved as a whole class.

DiscipleofBob
2010-01-28, 02:38 AM
After a conversation with a friend, I think I have a better way to implement the whole mark. It'll mean overhauling the current mark ability, and I'll do that tomorrow, er... later today.

EDIT: I've completely redone the Mark of Darkness ability. It should be a lot more "defendery" now.

It now reads as follows:
Mark of Darkness:
You threaten your enemies not to ignore your power, less they suffer the consequences. Once per round, as a free action, when an enemy within 5 squares makes an attack that does not include you as a target, you may mark the attacker as a free action with your Mark of Darkness. As a marked target, the attacker now takes a -2 penalty on the attack roll. As an free action the marked target may choose to, instead of continuing its attack on the current target, move up to 4 squares and make the same attack against you. This movement does not provoke opportunity attacks.

If a target affected by your Mark of Darkness makes an attack that does not include you as a target, you can use one of the following powers as an immediate interrupt:

Retribution of Death
At-Will Divine, Necrotic
Immediate Reaction Ranged 5
Trigger: A target within range affected by your Mark of Darkness makes an attack that does not include you as a target.
Effect: The target takes damage equal to 5 + your Wisdom or Constitution modifier (chosen at first level), and the target is no longer marked. The mark does 10 + your Wisdom or Constitution modifier at 11th level, and 15 + your Wisdom or Constitution modifier at 21st level.
Special: You may sacrifice a healing surge to use this ability as a free action at the start of your turn without the usual trigger. You may only use one of your Retribution powers per turn at the start of your turn this way.

Retribution of War
At-Will Divine, Weapon
Immediate Reaction Melee Weapon
Trigger: A target affected by your Mark of Darkness makes an attack that does not include you as a target.
Target: One creature in melee range afflicted by your Mark of Darkness.
Attack: Strength vs. AC
Damage: 1[W] + Strength modifier damage, and the target is no longer marked. At 21st level, this attack does 2[W] + Strength modifier damage.
Special: You may sacrifice a healing surge to use this ability as a free action at the start of your turn without the usual trigger. You may only use one of your Retribution powers per turn at the start of your turn this way.

Mando Knight
2010-01-28, 01:21 PM
The target-change needs to be a free action, since you can't take immediate actions on your own turn. The counterattacks should also be immediate reactions, since an immediate interrupt would negate the -2 penalty for the mark.

DiscipleofBob
2010-01-28, 01:27 PM
The target-change needs to be a free action, since you can't take immediate actions on your own turn. The counterattacks should also be immediate reactions, since an immediate interrupt would negate the -2 penalty for the mark.

Thank you. Changing it now.

EDIT: Fixed.

DiscipleofBob
2010-01-31, 09:18 PM
All right, got some feats for the class now. This should make the class ready for Heroic Tier and make it done until I'm ready for Paragon homebrewing.


Blackest Night
Tier: Heroic
Prerequisites: Dark Knight, Mark of Darkness class feature
If you or an ally attacks a target afflicted with your Mark of Darkness with an attack with the radiant keyword, the attack gets a +2 bonus to the damage roll.

Blackbeard Tenacity
Tier: Heroic
Prerequisites: Dwarf, Dark Knight
If an effect from an adjacent foe would normally force you to move through a pull, push, or slide, and you do not move any squares from said effect, you can push the target 2 squares and shift 2 squares to a space adjacent to it.

Dark Claw
Tier: Heroic
Prerequisites: Longtooth Shifter, Dark Knight
When you use your Longtooth Shifting racial power, instead of regeneration 2, your melee attacks deal an extra 2 ongoing damage.

Increased Famine
Tier: Heroic
Prerequisites: Dark Knight, Battlefield Terror class feature
Your Retribution of Famine ability's duration becomes (save ends) instead of until the end of your next turn.

Increased Pestilence
Tier: Heroic
Prerequisites: Dark Knight, Shadow Warrior class feature
Your Retribution of Pestilence ability, instead of dealing poison damage at the end of your opponent's next turn, deals ongoing poison damage of the same amount (save ends).

Dark Flux Capacitor
Tier: Heroic
Prerequisites: Warforged, Dark Knight, Warforged Resolve class feature
When you use your Warforged Resolve racial ability, you gain a +1 bonus to attack rolls until the end of your next turn.

Action Sacrifice
Tier: Heroic
Prerequisites: Human, Dark Knight, Action Surge class feature
When you spend an action point to make an extra attack with a power with the Sacrifice keyword, you can sacrifice an additional healing surge in order to gain a bonus to the damage roll equal to your Strength modifier.

Soul Reaper
Tier: Heroic
Prerequisites: Dark Knight
If you are using a two-handed weapon, when you use your Blood Sacrifice ability, gain +1 to damage.

Curse of Soul
Tier: Heroic
Prerequisites: Dark Knight, Souleater class feature
Any target you hit with your Souleater ability takes a -1 penalty to attack and defense until the start of your next turn.

DiscipleofBob
2010-06-16, 12:57 PM
Did a bit of playtesting, the Mark didn't work as well as I'd hoped.

Changed a lot of stuff about the class:


The Mark of Darkness is completely changed.
Retribution of War and Death can no longer be activated at the beginning of the Dark Knight's turn at the cost of a healing surge, that honor belongs solely to the Pestilence and Famine powers.
Notoriety works differently and is harder to pull off.
Changed several of the powers, mostly downgrades.
Reorganized the feats.


Going to do some more intensive playtesting, including playing the class myself and asking one of my friends to try and make as broken a character as possible with the class. Once I'm satisfied with the heroic tier stuff I'll start to work on the Paragon material. I already have a few ideas for Paragon Paths.

demidracolich
2010-06-16, 08:41 PM
I'm late getting here but I do have to say this class is awesome! Unfortunately 4e homebrew is used far less than 3.5 ones and in my group we have never used 4e homebrew.

Chainsaw Hobbit
2010-06-17, 12:24 PM
This class looks fun but is a little bland. :smallconfused:

Jallorn
2010-06-17, 03:22 PM
I have to say that I'm a tad bit disappointed. I thought this was going to be a Batman class.:smallwink:

DiscipleofBob
2010-06-17, 03:29 PM
I have to say that I'm a tad bit disappointed. I thought this was going to be a Batman class.:smallwink:

Funny thing, WotC was going to release a Batman class in Dragon magazine, but they realized he was a little broken when he one-shotted Orcus as an Immediate Interrupt.