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Dusk Eclipse
2010-01-27, 11:51 AM
I got this idea of a trhi keen giving a ton of negative levels using the Soul eater prestige class (BOVD)
right now I am working just from memory so if there is any mistake please tell me. oh this is a gestalt build

Race non-psionic thri-keen:
Build stub

Warblade//RHD
Warblade//RHD
Warblade//Totemist
Warblade//Totemist
Warblade//Totemist
Monk//Warblade
Soul Eater//Warblade
Soul Eater//Warblade
Soul Eater//Warblade
Soul Eater//Warblade
Soul Eater//Warblade
Soul Eater//Warblade
Soul Eater//Warblade
Soul Eater//Warblade
Soul Eater//Warblade
Soul Eater//Warblade
x//Warblade
x//Warblade
x//Warblade

The warblade levels are to get full bab, some utility manoubers (Iron heart surge, sudden leap) some combat manoubers (Raging Moongoose, Girallon windimil reap)

Totemist is for binding girallonr amrs to get more attacks
Monk to flurry and then make a natural attack routine
soul eater is to get negative levels in everything y hit

the important feats are multiweapon fighting line (3 feats), weapon focus (claw prerequisite for Soul eater IIRC) (1 feat) Multiattack (1 feat)


So does this build looks promising or is it bad?

Please note that I am working from memory so if I did something wrong please tell me.

Thanks in advance

SurlySeraph
2010-01-27, 12:10 PM
Looks pretty killy to me. I'd go into Soul Eater as your 6th level, though, assuming you're not starting play later; the sooner you enter the sooner you can energy-drain faces off. I'd take one level of SE, then the Monk level, then back to SE.

Do try to make sure that you do enough damage on your natural attacks to rip things up even if they're undead, constructs, or have Death Ward. Improved Natural Attack might be worthwhile.

EDIT: Oh, and Rapidstrike. Take Rapidstrike if it's allowed.

Xenogears
2010-01-27, 12:15 PM
You need alertness to qualify for soul eater too.

Dusk Eclipse
2010-01-27, 01:01 PM
@Surly: About things with dead ward, construct and undead, well I have the manoubers from warblade levels, I do not know much about Iron heart and white raven offensie-wise, but both Diamond Mind and Tiger Claw have some pretty good manoubers to choose from.

@Xenogears: thanks for the heads up.

Oh and this is not a build for a game (Soul eater requires evil and sadly I can't playe evil characters with my group T-T) but maybe I'll use it on the arena game we are planning.

So does anybody got any good suggestions for the last three levels? I thought on maybe lion spirit totem barbaria with the whirling frenzy variant....

SurlySeraph
2010-01-27, 01:08 PM
You can get Pouncing Charge and Sudden Leap from your warblade levels, so barbarian levels wouldn't be necessary. They certainly wouldn't hurt, though. You should consider levels in Swordsage, as you'll have a pretty high initiator level and thus be able to pick up some quite useful maneuvers and stances. I'd go for Mirrored Pursuit as your stance and Shadow Blink as a maneuver to make it easier to get your full attacks in.

Dusk Eclipse
2010-01-27, 01:11 PM
I'll consider swordsage but didn't the IL for multiclass martial adepts was handled separated?
And I thought on the whirling frenzy as a mean to get another attack (+2 negative levels).. so would it be reasonable to try to house rule that natural attacks function as unarmed strikes for shadow blade?

Nich_Critic
2010-01-27, 01:18 PM
Half of your other class levels stack to determine your individual initiator level.

So a warblade 4/swordsage 4 would have an IL of 6 for both. The cool thing is that this lets you bypass lower level maneuvers in your second class, since you are treated as a level 3 swordsage when you start taking those levels.

Dusk Eclipse
2010-01-27, 01:21 PM
Half of your other class levels stack to determine your individual initiator level.

So a warblade 4/swordsage 4 would have an IL of 6 for both. The cool thing is that this lets you bypass lower level maneuvers in your second class, since you are treated as a level 3 swordsage when you start taking those levels.

So in this particular case it would be Warblade IL 20 and SW IL 13? (or 12 I am considering the barbarian for the whirling frenzy).

Edit: Any suggestions for gear? right now thinking on boots of speed, enchanted crossbow (or bow) to deal with ranged enemies, cloak of displacement and scout's headband.

Drogorn
2010-01-27, 01:30 PM
I'd say ask your dm if you can ignore the alignment requirement or if you can play a soul eater who acts like a nice guy. Y'know, except for the whole soul eating part.

The build itself looks like it'd be fun to throw at my players. :smallamused:

Dusk Eclipse
2010-01-27, 02:00 PM
I'd say ask your dm if you can ignore the alignment requirement or if you can play a soul eater who acts like a nice guy. Y'know, except for the whole soul eating part.

The build itself looks like it'd be fun to throw at my players. :smallamused:

No luck here, tryed to get the evil aligment requirement from assassin, and said yes but if you deal non-letal damage only

SurlySeraph
2010-01-27, 03:07 PM
Why just one crossbow? You have four arms. If you can afford multiple bows (especially with the Rapid Reloading enhancement so you can full attack with them), get them.

Also, get an Amulet of Mighty Fists. No, seriously; it enhances all your natural attacks, so it'll be worthwhile. And ask if you can have weapon enhancements put on it; if so, Souldrinking (BoVD) for even more negative levels might be fun. Undead Bane and/or Construct Bane for more power against things that negative levels don't kill might be a good idea.

Dusk Eclipse
2010-01-27, 03:17 PM
I think I'll no longer need a crossbow because it was a measure against flying enemies but a friend suggested the winged template (Savage Species) and since I have 3 levels left, I might as well take it (perfect maneuverability is quite easy)
and the idea of a giant praying mantis with scarab-like wings is a pretty sweet image (at least IMO)

I think Ill check the amulet of mighty fist, question is does it applies to my bite attack?

lyko555
2010-01-27, 03:34 PM
you relize the number of levels you can drain is limited to /per round not /per attack right?

lord_khaine
2010-01-27, 03:37 PM
you relize the number of levels you can drain is limited to /per round not /per attack right?
Today 03:17 PM


I have personaly looked quite a bit for a ruling like that, where have you found it?

faceroll
2010-01-27, 03:38 PM
If you could squeeze third level spells and the insectile template in there, that's 4 more arms.


you relize the number of levels you can drain is limited to /per round not /per attack right?

There's no such limitation on Soul Eater. That's what makes it so awesome.

SurlySeraph
2010-01-27, 03:40 PM
Yep, the amulet applies to your bite attack. And unarmed strikes. That's why it's only worth buying if you have multiple natural attacks.

Instead of the Winged template, take the Feathered Wings graft from the Fiend Folio. 10,000 gp for permanent nonmagical flight, slotless. It has negative side effects if you're non-evil, but you're a Soul Eater.

lyko555
2010-01-27, 03:44 PM
alright on pg,66 of the book of vd its ays its a supernatural ie (su).
now go to page 142 of the players hand book where it says using a supernatural ability is usually a standard action unless otherwise specified.

lord_khaine
2010-01-27, 03:59 PM
hmm, yeah that seems pretty certain, i wonder why i have then seen so many Soul eater builds with a gazilion natural attacks.

lyko555
2010-01-27, 04:04 PM
cause lots of ppl over look the lowly player's handbook :P

since you have to be monsterous and, most likley unarmed why not go for a 4 armed brute or such.

Dusk Eclipse
2010-01-27, 04:05 PM
There goes my idea......

lyko555
2010-01-27, 04:08 PM
sorry to be a buzzkill.

playswithfire
2010-01-27, 04:08 PM
alright on pg,66 of the book of vd its ays its a supernatural ie (su).
now go to page 142 of the players hand book where it says using a supernatural ability is usually a standard action unless otherwise specified.

Necrotic focus weapon enhancement from Libris Mortis lets you drain levels with a weapon. This is a Non-psionic Thri-Kreen Soul Eater build I put together a while ago (it's non-gestalt, though, so feel free to add whatever):

Admittedly, Lightning Maces with Aptitude is cheese and the weapons will be pricy.



LA
HD feat[Alertness]
HD
Barbarian* pounce, feat[Multiweapon Fighting]
Fighter fighter[Combat Reflexes]
Swordsage weapon focus(tiger claw weapons**)
Swordsage feat[weapon focus(light mace)]
Soul Eater
Soul Eater
Soul Eater feat[Improved Critical(kukri)]
Soul Eater
Soul Eater
Soul Eater feat[Improved Multi-Weapon Fighting]
Soul Eater energy drain 2 levels
Soul Eater
Soul Eater feat[Lightning Maces]
Soul Eater
Fighter fighter[Greater Multi-Weapon Fighting]
feat[Improved Energy Drain***]
Bloodclaw Master claws of the beast
Bloodclaw Master superior multiweapon fighting


Base saves: 15/16/13

weapons: 4 +1 aptitude necrotic focus kukris
important stances and maneuvers: blood in the water stance, dancing mongoose boost

attune your kukris to the lightning maces feat with their aptitude enhancement and assume the blood in the water stance

base attacks are at 19/19/19/19/14/14/14/14/12^/9/9/9/9/4 + STR including focus and enhancement; add on two more at 19 if you use dancing mongoose and increase attack bonus by two if you charge and pounce

Every time you hit: you drain two levels and gain stacking +2s to attack rolls**** for 1 hour from Improved Energy drain
If the hit threatens a critical (14+): you get to make another attack at the same attack bonus from Lighting maces
If you confirm the critical: you drain two more levels, gaining another +2 to attack rolls**** for an hour and an additional stacking +1s to attack and damage rolls for as long as you hit with a crit at least once every 10 rounds from blood in the water

It's not an infinite loop, but it'll be a very painful experience for anyone who gets in your way once you start getting hits.

*lion spirit totem from Complete Champion
**notably claw and kukri
***from Libris Mortis; bit of a problem as it requires CHA 15, but a great feat
**** also skill checks, saving throws and ability checks
^ the bite attack

lord_khaine
2010-01-27, 04:11 PM
Necrotic focus weapon enhancement from Libris Mortis lets you drain levels with a weapon. This is a Non-psionic Thri-Kreen Soul Eater build I put together a while ago (it's non-gestalt, though, so feel free to add whatever):

Admittedly, Lightning Maces with Aptitude is cheese and the weapons will be pricy.


But it wont change anything if it doesnt change the activation of energy drain from a standard action.

Dusk Eclipse
2010-01-27, 04:12 PM
Necrotic focus weapon enhancement from Libris Mortis lets you drain levels with a weapon. This is a Non-psionic Thri-Kreen Soul Eater build I put together a while ago (it's non-gestalt, though, so feel free to add whatever):

Admittedly, Lightning Maces with Aptitude is cheese and the weapons will be pricy.



LA
HD feat[Alertness]
HD
Barbarian* pounce, feat[Multiweapon Fighting]
Fighter fighter[Combat Reflexes]
Swordsage weapon focus(tiger claw weapons**)
Swordsage feat[weapon focus(light mace)]
Soul Eater
Soul Eater
Soul Eater feat[Improved Critical(kukri)]
Soul Eater
Soul Eater
Soul Eater feat[Improved Multi-Weapon Fighting]
Soul Eater energy drain 2 levels
Soul Eater
Soul Eater feat[Lightning Maces]
Soul Eater
Fighter fighter[Greater Multi-Weapon Fighting]
feat[Improved Energy Drain***]
Bloodclaw Master claws of the beast
Bloodclaw Master superior multiweapon fighting


Base saves: 15/16/13

weapons: 4 +1 aptitude necrotic focus kukris
important stances and maneuvers: blood in the water stance, dancing mongoose boost

attune your kukris to the lightning maces feat with their aptitude enhancement and assume the blood in the water stance

base attacks are at 19/19/19/19/14/14/14/14/12^/9/9/9/9/4 + STR including focus and enhancement; add on two more at 19 if you use dancing mongoose and increase attack bonus by two if you charge and pounce

Every time you hit: you drain two levels and gain stacking +2s to attack rolls**** for 1 hour from Improved Energy drain
If the hit threatens a critical (14+): you get to make another attack at the same attack bonus from Lighting maces
If you confirm the critical: you drain two more levels, gaining another +2 to attack rolls**** for an hour and an additional stacking +1s to attack and damage rolls for as long as you hit with a crit at least once every 10 rounds from blood in the water

It's not an infinite loop, but it'll be a very painful experience for anyone who gets in your way once you start getting hits.

*lion spirit totem from Complete Champion
**notably claw and kukri
***from Libris Mortis; bit of a problem as it requires CHA 15, but a great feat
**** also skill checks, saving throws and ability checks
^ the bite attack



Thanks for the build, and as for cheese it IS a gestalt arena, cheese is expected. maybe I can put some utility on the other side of the gestalt.... and more BAB

Dusk Eclipse
2010-01-27, 04:36 PM
Is there any way to make an energy drain as part of an attack? I thought on taking the wight monster class, but it is the same as the soul eater (except it grants a save)

Person_Man
2010-01-27, 05:02 PM
You only need 2 levels of Totemist to bind a soulmeld to your Totem chakra. Also, if you take the Double Bind feat and bind Girillion Arms AND Lamia Belt to your Totem chakra, you get 6 claws. But note that 2 of those claws are on your primary arms, 2 are from soulmeld arms, and 2 are from soulmeld legs (think centaur). So as a Thri-Kreen, you'd have a total of 8 claws. If you keep up with Totemist, you can add a rend, gore, bite, tentacle, tail, and wing buffet attacks (though some of them are oddly worded or come from Dragon Mag) plus easy access to Pounce, Dimension Door, breath weapons, and various buffs. If you take Improved Unarmed Strike (or buy a Fanged Ring to get it for free) you can also make your full normal attack routine without giving up any natural attacks.

Dusk Eclipse
2010-01-27, 05:05 PM
hmmmm the problem still lies on finding a way to deal negative levels with every attack, because of RAW at most I could only deal two per standard action

lyko555
2010-01-27, 05:21 PM
also the problem being the drain itself being your action.so it doesn't do you any good to be able to throw 30 punches for 2d100 when your using your standard attack for a 2 level drain.

Dusk Eclipse
2010-01-27, 05:24 PM
Well my understanding at first was that you dealt the negative levels with each attack hence my intention to make a bazillion attack per round, I thougt that attack=negative levels.

Person_Man
2010-01-27, 05:29 PM
hmmmm the problem still lies on finding a way to deal negative levels with every attack, because of RAW at most I could only deal two per standard action

Would the classic Life-Drinker (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Life-Drinker) work for this? (It's easy enough to add Necropolitan to your build). I haven't read Souleater in years - does it have to be from a natural ability?

lyko555
2010-01-27, 05:29 PM
yeah its kinda suprising the number of ppl ive seen with that type of build. Leads to an overly large number of gms closing the book and saying nope. but its faily reasonable class.


wow thats a mean weapon. That would be an awsome base is you wanted to do the necropolitan flurry fighter.

faceroll
2010-01-27, 05:30 PM
Soul Eater says, basically, that your touch drains levels. So I would assume that when you touch something, it loses a level. If you touch something multiple times, it loses multiple levels.

Dusk Eclipse
2010-01-27, 05:31 PM
Would the classic Life-Drinker (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Life-Drinker) work for this? (It's easy enough to add Necropolitan to your build). I haven't read Souleater in years - does it have to be from a natural ability?
Actually soul eater gives you the ability to drain energy

lyko555
2010-01-27, 05:34 PM
Soul Eater says, basically, that your touch drains levels. So I would assume that when you touch something, it loses a level. If you touch something multiple times, it loses multiple levels.

The key part is that its a super natural ie (su) ability. So 1 (su)= a standard action unless the ability says otherwise.

faceroll
2010-01-27, 05:39 PM
The key part is that its a super natural ie (su) ability. So 1 (su)= a standard action unless the ability says otherwise.

The ability says otherwise- when it touches you, you lose a level. I can touch you multiple times in a round. Therefore...?

Person_Man
2010-01-27, 05:43 PM
wow thats a mean weapon. That would be an awsome base is you wanted to do the necropolitan flurry fighter.

I wonder if you need Immunity to Fortitude Save effects (undead and constructs only) to use the Life-Drinker without taking negative levels, or just Immunity to Energy Drain (the effect that bestows negative levels) which is easier to get. Anyone want to riddle out the RAW vs RAI on that one?

lyko555
2010-01-27, 05:55 PM
The ability says otherwise- when it touches you, you lose a level. I can touch you multiple times in a round. Therefore...?

so your saying whenever this character is say walking through a market place any peasany who brushes up against her is gonna fall over dead via a negative level?

to person-man
You dont get a save vrs losing the levels. the dc 16 is to keep the loss form becoming permanent 24 hours later. So yeah undead is the way to go that or have a deathward up.

faceroll
2010-01-27, 06:15 PM
so your saying whenever this character is say walking through a market place any peasany who brushes up against her is gonna fall over dead via a negative level?

With great power comes... a lot of dead peasants.

lvl 1 sharnian
2010-01-27, 06:35 PM
Don't most abilities that require a standard action to activate say so in the description of the ability?

Paladins don't need to use a standard action to use Divine Grace, do they? Yet it is a supernatural ability.

Besides, Soul Eaters are evil, it doesn't matter if he accidently kills a few peasants.

SurlySeraph
2010-01-27, 06:51 PM
so your saying whenever this character is say walking through a market place any peasany who brushes up against her is gonna fall over dead via a negative level?

When it touches them (i.e. makes a touch attack), not when they touch it.

lyko555
2010-01-27, 07:58 PM
Don't most abilities that require a standard action to activate say so in the description of the ability?

Paladins don't need to use a standard action to use Divine Grace, do they? Yet it is a supernatural ability.

Besides, Soul Eaters are evil, it doesn't matter if he accidently kills a few peasants.


yes but divine grace only effects the pally eating a soul effect said peasants.