View Full Version : (3.5) Talansidhe (Fine Fey) - WIP, PEACH

Barbarian MD
2010-01-27, 06:29 PM
I realized there's a severe lack of fine-sized playable races, so here's my first attempt at creating a race. Let me know what you think; I'm eager to hear how to improve it and balance it.

Special Note: Before you rush in and say, "This thing is way too powerful! Dwarfs only get +2 to one ability, and you have bonuses in four stats!" please note that my homebrew has a level adjustment. I don't know why people keep missing it, but no, this is not the same thing as a dwarf. It's more on the level of a Pixie or the Half-Celestial template.

Fluffed Invisibility
Added weapons and completed bonus feats
Removed Invisibility (Is it now underpowered?)
Extraordinary Craftsmanship added
Changed natural armor to dodge bonus
Removed Weapon Finesse, to be replaced in the future.
Cleaned up the formatting of the abilities.
Reduced the LA to +4 from +5.
Beginning to work out the special benefits the mount receives.
Considering rearranging some of the stat bonuses. Con might become a penalty (+4 -> -2). Wis might become a bonus (-2 -> +4). Done.

Fine (Fey)
HD ½ d6-1 (1 hp)
Speed 5 ft (1 squares).
Init: +4
AC 24 (+8 size, +4 Dex, +2 dodge), touch 24, flat-footed 18
BAB +0; Grp -20
Attack Lance +4 melee (1d2-4/x3) or shortspear +12 ranged (1/x2)
Full-Attack Lance +4 melee (1d2-4/x3) or shortspear +12 ranged (1/x2)
Space 1/2 ft.; Reach 0 ft.
Special Attacks none
Special Qualities Damage reduction 10/cold iron, darkvision, spell resistance 17, Extraordinary Craftsmanship, Attuned Mount
Saves Fort -1, Ref +6, Will +6
Abilities Str 3, Dex 19, Con 9, Int 14, Wis 14, Cha 16
Skills Concentration +3, Craft (any one) +6, Handle Animal +7, Listen +6, Move Silently +8, Perform (woodwind) +7, Ride +8, Spot +6
Feats Mounted Combat, Acquire Familiar (B)
Environment Temperate Forests
Organization Squad (2-4), Hunt (6-11), or Tribe (20-80)
Challenge Rating 5/3
Treasure Standard
Alignment usually chaotic
Advancement by class; Favored Class Sorcerer or Warlock
Level Adjustment +4

Talansidhe are proficient with all simple weapons, lances, light armor, medium armor, and shields (but not tower shields)

A Talansidhe stands between 1 and 4 inches in height and weigh but a few ounces. They wear bright clothing, complete with capes and pointed caps, and tend to be a boisterous and loud people. They take themselves overly seriously, but perhaps lack some of the wisdom of the True Summer and Winter Courts.

These Sidhe are made up of matriarchal societies. Queens of the Sidhe rule vast areas of forest, and the various clans and tribes are spread some distance from each other. Most Talansidhe belong to a worker class. These are the builders, the farmers, and the craftsmen. Different tribes provide for themselves in different ways--some herd aphids in order to obtain the sugar that they produce, others will encourage and protect bee hives in exchange for honey. Talansidhe have little in the way of manufactured goods to export, not because they do not craft such items, but because they would be worthless to most buyers. A noble class serve as warriors, defending the tribes from invaders. A priestly class also exists, and it is not unknown for adventurers to discover a Talansidhe cleric on pilgrimage, but it is extremely rare.

Unlike their cousins, the Pixies, Talansidhe lack wings. When these fairie folk come of age, they are entitled by law to capture and train a mount, and after doing so they are considered full members of society. The choice of a mount is an important decision, and will affect a Talansidhe’s reputation for the rest of their lives. Some choose for themselves lizards or squirrels, and some of the smaller take dragonflies. The most adventurous—the ones that want to prove themselves and serve as knights—attempt to tame cats or birds of prey.

Extraordinary Craftsmanship (Ex)

Those Sidhe that pursue a craft produce wondrously small works of art. The effect of this bonus depends on the craft skill in question, but here are some examples:

Whenever a Sidhe crafts armor (or a shield) that is fine in size, that armor provides the full AC bonus, rather than the standard 1/2, and weighs only 1/25 the weight of a medium-sized suit of equivalent armor [Note: this allows a particularly strong Sidhe to wear full-plate]

Whenever a Sidhe crafts weapons that are fine in size, that weapon weighs only 1/25 the weight of a medium-sized equivalent, and, if no damage die is provided for that weapon, deals 1 point of damage instead. [A dagger, for instance.]

Spell Resistance (Ex)
Talansidhe gain spell resistance equal to 17 + class levels.

Darkvision (Ex)
Talansidhe have darkvision to a distance of 60 feet.

Damage Reduction (Ex?)
Talansidhe have damage reduction equal to 10/Cold Iron.

Special Note: For player characters, the DR progresses. At 1 HD, PC Talansidhe receive DR 1/Cold Iron. At 5 HD, it advances to DR 5/Cold Iron. At 10 HD, the DR increases to a total of DR 10/Cold Iron.

Attuned Mount (Ex)
Talansidhe form extremely close bonds with the animals that serve both as their familiars and mounts. A psychic link begins to form, and a mount that serves in this way begins to gain even more strength from the magical auras of their masters. Eventually, the link between the two becomes so tight that, live or die, they do so together. The following effects are based on HD.

1st-2nd: While riding her mount-familiar, a Talansidhe is treated as having the benefit of Mounted Combat. In addition, so long as her mount is reasonably large enough to carry her, ignore weight limits on carrying capacity with respect to the mount. A Talansidhe's familiar-mount may carry its master and any equipment that a Talansidhe can carry as a medium load.

3rd-4th: A Talansidhe's mount gains a bonus of 10' to movement.

5th-6th: While riding her mount-familiar, a Talansidhe shares her mount's Improved Evasion. If the mount, or both the mount and character, are targeted by a spell or effect, roll a single reflex save, using the higher modifier of the two. If only the Talansidhe is targeted, you must use her modifier.

7th-8th: While mounted on her mount-familiar, a Talansidhe gains the benefit of Ride-By/Fly-By Attack.

9th-10th: The magical bond between a Talansidhe and her mount grows so strong as to become unbreakable. From now on, the two are counted as one entity. Use the AC, Hit Points, SR, DR, and Saves, and Anything-Else-that-I-Am-Forgetting of the Talansidhe. Spells that affect one now affect both. If one of the two should die, the other dies instantaneously, regardless of physical separation.


Talansidhe try to avoid combat, particularly with creatures much larger than themselves, and will flee at the first sign of serious danger from outsiders. There is an exception to this rule. While the rest of the tribe scatters underfoot, Sidhe Knights harry their attackers in frenetic combat, giving their lives to allow the tribe to survive.

Talansidhe as Characters

A Talansidhe character exchanges its 1 HD of fey for its first class level.

Talansidhe characters posses the following racial traits.

-8 Strength, +8 Dexterity, -2 Constitution, +4 Intelligence, +4 Wisdom, +6 Charisma
Fine size. +8 bonus to Armor Class, +8 bonus to attack rolls, +16 bonus on Hide checks, -16 penalty on grapple checks, lifting and carrying limits 1/8 that of Medium creatures.
A Talansidhe’s base land speed is 5 feet.
Dark-vision 60 feet.
Racial Feats: A Talansidhe receives Acquire Familiar as a bonus feat.
+2 dodge bonus to AC.
Special Qualities: Damage reduction 10/cold iron, spell resistance equal to 17 + class levels, Extraordinary Craftsmanship, Attuned Mount.
Automatic languages: Common, Sylvan. Bonus languages: Elven, Gnome, Halfling.

2010-01-27, 07:04 PM
Going to need to nerf the greater invisibility.
Or give it level adjustment up the butthole.

Besides, the greater invisibility isn't even justified in fluff, not a single mention.

Barbarian MD
2010-01-27, 07:16 PM
Appreciate you pointing out that it wasn't mentioned in fluff. That's corrected now.

I ended up removing it outright.

Should I add some sort of Su ability, like a pixie's sleep arrows, to increase it's power, change the LA to a lower one, or is it balanced as is?

Pixie: LA 4. Greater invisibility all day, 10 SLA's, sleep/memory loss arrows, flight.

Rule of thumb: 1 LA per size increment less than small= 3 LA

Fine pixie: LA 7

Invisibility, flight, special arrows, 10 SLAs = 2 LA?

Sidhe: 5 LA?

Barbarian MD
2010-01-28, 01:50 PM
I've wrapped up my edits to it. Now I want to hear what people think, and whether you guys think it's balanced or not.

If you have a suggestion about some sort of ability that would set it apart still further from the other sprites, I'd be eager to hear it!

2010-01-28, 02:04 PM
herding aphids...

why the hell would they herd aphids? what benefit do they get from that? also, aphids are among the "most destructive" of plant-eating bugs according to wikipedia; i'd think that the sidhe would sooner herd ladybugs and have them eat all of the parasitic aphids.

but that's just me...

-8 Strength, +8 Dexterity, +4 Constitution, +4 Intelligence, -2 Wisdom, +6 Charisma
Tiny size. +8 bonus to Armor Class, +8 bonus to attack rolls, +16 bonus on Hide checks, -16 penalty on grapple checks, lifting and carrying limits 1/8 that of Medium creatures.
A Talansidhe’s base land speed is 5 feet.
Dark-vision 60 feet.
Racial Feats: A Talansidhe receives Weapon Finesse and Acquire Familiar as bonus feats.

this is not a balance issue, but a flavor issue: i'd drop weapon finesse and give it another ability that is magic-related. i can't think of any suitable off the top of my head, but it doesn't even need to be a bonus feat; make it an (Ex) ability that augments its familiar abilities, or that gives it some kind of bonuses when using spells or invocations or something.

+2 dodge bonus to AC.
Special Qualities: Damage reduction 10/cold iron, greater invisibility, spell resistance equal to 17 + class levels, Extraordinary Craftsmanship.
Automatic languages: Common, Sylvan. Bonus languages: Elven, Gnome, Halfling.

up in the stat block and combat descriptions, list the greater invisibility, spell resistance, etc, and mark them as (Ex), (Su), etc.

in the end, i think that the lack of flight and multitudes of (Sp) abilities balances the fine size; i'd say LA +4.

Barbarian MD
2010-01-28, 02:08 PM
Crud, I didn't realize I had left a reference to the invisibility in there. I'll remove that.

Aphids are those bugs that collect sugary dew, right? Isn't there a species of ants that herd aphids?

2010-01-28, 02:50 PM
Crud, I didn't realize I had left a reference to the invisibility in there. I'll remove that.

Aphids are those bugs that collect sugary dew, right? Isn't there a species of ants that herd aphids?

correct on both accounts as far as i know. aphids do so by destroying the plant; bees make honey, and in the process, help plants. just flavor disparities in my mind, and certainly not a balance issue.

2010-01-28, 05:44 PM
Hit points are 3 not 4. 3.5/2= 1.75 +2= 3.75 and you always round down in 3.5.


Barbarian MD
2010-01-28, 06:10 PM
Ah, much obliged.

Question: to make a familiar a mount, what would be involved? Anything special (trying to come up with something, as per Stycotl's suggestion)? Nevermind, they've got sufficient intelligence to be trained for combat riding.

Here's an idea: could a Sidhe, while mounted, enjoy the benefits of her familiar's Improved Evasion? If not, would that be appropriate as an ability?

2010-01-29, 03:00 PM
you could certainly make that an ability.

something i just thought of: you could give them a tiered ability (like raptoran flight) that improves their extra familiar talents with level advancement.

Barbarian MD
2010-01-29, 03:43 PM
What's Raptoran Flight? Are you referring to the Raptorans in Races of the Wild?

2010-01-30, 02:21 PM
yes, that raptoran. as they gain hit dice, their flight abilities improve. your sidhe could have a symbiotic relationship of sorts with their familiar, that gets more powerful as they advance in hit dice. right off of the bat, it seems a bit redundant, since a spellcaster's familiar already gets more powerful with class level increases, but if you give it unique abilities that are dependent upon total hit dice, it will cease being redundant, and it will kick ass!

Barbarian MD
2010-01-30, 04:24 PM
Good idea, man.

I've started to list a few benefits above, spaced out over HD. I'm not sure how quickly to advance the benefits, and how many to give, while still keeping this thing balanced. Playgrounders, do you have any suggestions as to benefits the character-mount relationship should have?

2010-01-30, 05:17 PM
Looks good, LA seems reasonable (can't say more without seeing a few builds). Their defenses might be able to get out of hand fairly quickly, though. I also have to wonder why they have a higher Con than pixies? That said it really is paying 4 levels for a +4 to hit (compared to a high BAB class), +10 AC, +8 Dex, and +4 Con and DR 10/cold iron.
Just a note/nitpick: Pixie PCs don't get the special arrows (I found this out because of my pixie familiar that for some reason does :smallbiggrin:) so that's not part of their +4 LA.

2010-01-31, 01:49 AM
DR 10/Cold Iron is impressive for a 1/2 HD critter. Perhaps you should tone this down some.


Barbarian MD
2010-01-31, 08:22 AM
Good call. I've made it into a progression, rather than a flat DR 10.

1HD: DR 1/Cold Iron
5HD: DR 5/Cold Iron
10HD: DR 10/Cold Iron

I made it specifically apply to PCs. Should it also apply to them as creatures?

2010-01-31, 09:31 AM
Assuming I was set on playing a full arcane caster class, why would I ever consider anything other than this?

This issue is generally the problem with just about any very large or very small race intended to be playable -- they tend to make very good specialists in a specific class to the point of rendering other races useless in that class by comparison.

Also, having a racial ability that scales with level is pretty much unheard-of in WotC materials.

2010-01-31, 10:12 AM
What framiliars do fine creatures get? Most of the framiliars for medium creatures would just be used as mounts.

Also, this class is perfect for arcane casters. They get a hefty bonus to mental stats, huge AC, high con. The most dangerous level for casters (first) is moot as nothing is going to be able to touch them. PLEASE re-work their ability mods, or give them a level adjustment.

And why do these guys get better con than dwarves?:smallconfused:

Barbarian MD
2010-01-31, 11:08 AM
In answer to both of you: +4 LA (which I brought down from +5 at the suggestion of people on the board.)

+4 LA will reduce a caster's number of spells and spell levels. It was my understanding that, with the exception of gestalt games, you should never give a full-caster LA.

The half-celestial template (4 LA) has features that scale with level. If you'd prefer it didn't scale, my homebrew would start out at DR/10, like Pixies do.

If you're referring to the mounts scaling abilities, I'm basing it off the scaling progression of familiars.

Does that answer people's concerns, or do you still think it needs to be bumped back up to +5 LA, as I originally wrote it.

2010-01-31, 11:08 AM
Fine (Fey)

Talansidhe as Characters
Tiny size.

Um. Is it Tiny-sized or Fine-sized?

Barbarian MD
2010-01-31, 12:20 PM
Fixed. They're fine in size (hence the -8 str and +8 dex).

2010-02-01, 09:08 AM
Also, having a racial ability that scales with level is pretty much unheard-of in WotC materials.
No it isn't. Raptoran, Dragonborn, Half-Celestial, Half-Fiend, Saint, and Feral all do, there are a number of races with SR that scales with level, and I'm sure there are more that I don't know off the top of my head.