PDA

View Full Version : Halving stats to half Level Adjustment: Fair?



theonesin
2010-01-28, 11:47 AM
I might be joining a DnD 3.5 campaign soon, and I've been interested in playing a Pixie (specially a Pixie Warlock, as I've also been itching to play that class again). Of course, the +4/+6 LA is holding me back (we're starting at level 7 or 8).

However, the DM has proposed making me a "half-pixie", and in turn halving my base attributes. I've never heard of this though, so I'm a little unsure if halving their base attributes will balance it out to half the LA.

Thoughts?

Mark Hall
2010-01-28, 11:52 AM
Does he mean half the attribute adjustment, or half the attribute, period? The first is fairly doable (though I assume he means only the bonuses, not the penalties)... you still get a lot of nice things, as the attribute bonuses are great, but not the sole reason to play a pixie.

If he means the second... well... Warlocks don't need their attributes as much, but that looks to be pretty harsh.

Ceaon
2010-01-28, 11:58 AM
You'd get a -4 (-2?) Str, +4 Dex, +3(?) Int, +2 Wis, +3(?) Cha character, with small size,20 speed, 60 fly speed (good), low light vision, +2 spot, listen and search, +1 natural armor, Dodge as a bonus and a bunch of special attacks and qualities (like DR/cold iron) for +2 LA.

I'd say that's actually quite good. Maybe a bit too good, even...

Edit: For reference (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Pixie)...

sofawall
2010-01-28, 12:01 PM
You'd get a -4 (-2?) Str, +4 Dex, +3(?) Int, +2 Wis, +3(?) Cha character, with small size,20 speed, 60 fly speed (good), low light vision, +2 spot, listen and search, +1 natural armor, Dodge as a bonus and a bunch of special attacks and qualities (like DR/cold iron) for +2 LA.

I'd say that's actually quite good. Maybe a bit too good, even...

Edit: For reference (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Pixie)...

Flight, Imp. Invis. and stats that give penalties to dump stats and bonuses to needed stats?

I'd take it in a heartbeat.

EDIT: The stats are nice, but they aren't really what makes a Pixie Warlock so ridiculous.

theonesin
2010-01-28, 12:03 PM
Here's what is, at least right now, what the DM proposes for this Half-Pixie:

•-2 Strength, +4 Dexterity, +3 Intelligence, +2 Wisdom, +3 Charisma.
•Small size. +1 bonus to Armor Class, +1 bonus on attack rolls, +4 bonus on Hide checks, -4 penalty on grapple checks, lifting and carrying limits ¾ those of Medium characters.
•A half pixie’s base land speed is 25 feet. It also has a fly speed of 30 feet (good).
•Low-light vision.
•Skills: Pixies have a +1 racial bonus on Listen, Search, and Spot checks.
•Racial Feats: A pixie receives Dodge and Weapon Finesse as bonus feats.
•+1 natural armor bonus.
•Special Attacks (see above): Spell-like abilities.
•Special Qualities (see above): Damage reduction 10/cold iron, greater invisibility, spell resistance equal to 10 + class levels.
•Automatic Languages: Common, Sylvan. Bonus Languages: Elven, Gnome, Halfling.
•Favored Class: Sorcerer.
•Level adjustment +2 (+3 if the pixie can use irresistible dance).

AmberVael
2010-01-28, 12:08 PM
Totally worth it. Take it in a heartbeat.

Edit: Seriously, to make a comparison, for +2 la you can get the Winged template, which gives you a fly speed, and a couple of ability bonuses.

This +2 la gives you a fly speed, a number of ability bonuses, the invisibility, and some other nice little bonuses on top of that. Granted, you don't get to apply this to a second race (do you?), but it is still way better.

sofawall
2010-01-28, 12:11 PM
Totally worth it. Take it in a heartbeat.

Agree wholeheartedly. I would more likely take this than the normal Pixie, and for good reason.

Telonius
2010-01-28, 12:11 PM
I'm assuming the other half, whatever it is, would still leave the character as small.

The Pixie's biggest strength is its Greater Invisibility. If it's still there, it's at least a +3 LA race even with the lower stat bonuses. (Seriously, consider what sort of damage a flying, always-invisible Rogue could do, let alone a Wizard that doesn't ever have to cast Fly or Invisibility). Lose that, bump SR down to 5 or 10, and halve the rest; and I'd say it's a decent +2LA race.


EDIT: Just saw the stats you posted. If I were a player, I'd definitely, DEFINITELY consider taking that.

ericgrau
2010-01-28, 12:24 PM
As said, it's the special abilities that really make the pixie. Half stats are crazy worth it if you keep all the specials. Even an LA 4 pixie with 3 or 4 class levels won't be so bad. He'll be fragile at first, but not for long, and vs. most any CR 7-10 encounter the invisibility should keep you safe for now. Especially if you become a flying ranged character, taking full advantage of your ability to [sneak] attack without breaking invisibility. A good con helps too. Pixie is already one of the better monstrous races out there.

theonesin
2010-01-28, 01:48 PM
Random changes: The DM has talked about changing the Half-Pixie's land speed to 20, fly speed to 40, and Spell Resistance bonus to 8 instead of 10. Are those unbalanced.

Edit: Oh, and for whatever reason he's making only the +3 LA version (that's with irresistible dance) the only Half-Pixie option. I'm a little worried if the dance would make this too powerful.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-01-28, 01:52 PM
Random changes: The DM has talked about changing the Half-Pixie's land speed to 20, fly speed to 40, and Spell Resistance bonus to 8 instead of 10. Are those unbalanced?

The whole race at +2 LA is unbalanced. Greater Invisibility, bonuses to 4 important ability scores, flight, damage reduction (cold iron nonetheless...one of the better ones, as few things are cold iron), and spell resistance make this an insane race.

Personally, I'd feel a little bad about playing this at anything less than LA +3...

Kurald Galain
2010-01-28, 01:53 PM
...don't worry about it!

As long as you're not actively trying to upstage everyone else, and everyone is having fun, it's really not important whether you get +2 to dex, +4 to dex, or +8 to dex.

(yes, this is stronger than the norm, but not excessively so; and a warlock isn't normally a very strong class, so it balances out reasonably well)

AmberVael
2010-01-28, 01:53 PM
Well, the spell resistance will likely go from somewhat useful to mostly just a nuisance. Meanwhile, the subtraction from landspeed to add to Fly speed will be a great improvement.

I'd almost consider just asking him to drop SR entirely rather than reduce it like that, because it won't hinder enemies much (due to it being low relative to CR), but it will hinder you in terms of lowering it for beneficial spells.

Sinfire Titan
2010-01-28, 01:55 PM
Random changes: The DM has talked about changing the Half-Pixie's land speed to 20, fly speed to 40, and Spell Resistance bonus to 8 instead of 10. Are those unbalanced.

Edit: Oh, and for whatever reason he's making only the +3 LA version (that's with irresistible dance) the only Half-Pixie option. I'm a little worried if the dance would make this too powerful.

Still OP'ed. The SR isn't the problem (it's actually going to hurt you). The problem is constant Improved Invisibility. Ever play Oblivion? It's akin to crafting that suit of Chameleon Armor (each piece gives 20% stackable concealment, and once you hit 100% nothing can see you).

Kurald Galain
2010-01-28, 01:58 PM
Still OP'ed. The SR isn't the problem (it's actually going to hurt you). The problem is constant Improved Invisibility.
Sure, but warlocks get at-will invisibility anyway at level 6.

Change imp invis to regular invis if you want, but overall invis isn't really that big a deal, especially if the rest of the party is not invis.

Sinfire Titan
2010-01-28, 02:02 PM
Sure, but warlocks get at-will invisibility anyway at level 6.

Change imp invis to regular invis if you want, but overall invis isn't really that big a deal, especially if the rest of the party is not invis.

The Imp.Invis is the problem. At the lower to mid levels, that ability alone is a pain in the neck to deal with unless the party fights nothing but casters. At the high levels, it isn't a big deal at all. But most importantly, constant Improved Invisibility should not be available from an LA 2 race.