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imp_fireball
2010-01-30, 10:52 AM
From Here (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0089907/).

http://artisticthings.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/return1-02.jpg
See? You made me hurt myself again! I broke my hand off completely at the wrist this time, Tina! But that's okay, Darlin', because I love you, and that's why you have to let me EAT YOUR BRAAAAAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIIIINS!

Freddy, the Formerly Alive Teenage Employee of a Corpse Transportation Business

Size/Type: Medium Humanoid (Human, Unliving)
Hit Dice: 1d12 +20 (26 hp)
Initiative: +0
Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares)
Armor Class: 10, touch 10, flat-footed 10
Base Attack/Grapple: +0/+5
Attack: Unarmed +1 (1d3 bludgeoning), Bite -1 (1d6 piercing; +1 if grappling)
Full Attack: Unarmed +1 or Bite -1 (+1 if against opponent creature is grappling)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Spread the Disease
Special Qualities: Scent, DR 12/Lethal Damage >= 26
Saves: Fort +0, Ref +2, Will +1
Abilities: Str 12, Dex 10, Con -, Int 10, Wis 1, Cha 12
Skills: Spot +7, Listen +7, Diplomacy +5
Feats: Improved Grapple, Alertness
Environment: Any
Organization: Alone, Mob (2 - 100), Horde (300 - 8000), Z-Insurgency (20,000 - 300,000) or Global Hell-in-Hand-Basket Pandemic (30,000,000 - ???)
Challenge Rating: 3
Treasure: Standard
Alignment: Always Chaotic Evil (huzzah!)
Advancement: By character class
Level Adjustment: +0

Unliving Template

Traits

A creature of the unliving template has all the following modified traits and additional features:

*All hit die become 12 sided. 12 sided HD replace class and monster HD from now on. It receives bonus hp equivalent to a construct of its size.
* If they could not see before, they can now see and have human-like vision.
* No Constitution score.
* Immunity to fear effects.
* Immunity to poison, paralysis, stunning, disease, and death effects.
* Not subject to critical hits, nonlethal damage, ability drain, or energy drain. Immune to damage to its physical ability scores (Constitution; Strength and Dexterity may still be affected), as well as to fatigue and exhaustion effects.
* Nothing heals these creatures short of fast healing or regeneration. Negative and positive energy do nothing instead of damage or heal. Creatures of this type do not heal naturally. Mundane methods applied to assist healing work, as do magical healing normally applied to constructs.
* Immunity to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects or is harmless).
* Uses its Charisma modifier for Concentration checks.
* Cannot Die

Cannot die: Every part of the unliving is a danger, allowing it to pose a threat far longer than the average opponent. As a result, unlike normal creatures, unliving creatures do not take incremental damage, but must be destroyed piece by piece. DR 12 applies to any attack that does not reduce the creature to 0 hp in one rolled attack resulting in damage.

NOTE: Some creatures have greater or lesser DR due to being naturally more difficult to hack apart or more fragile. This is at GM discretion.

If the attack bypasses the creature's DR, then they are badly dismembered.

Roll 1d8 from the following table (note that table always assumes creature is humanoid and bipedal; for other creatures, the GM is reccomended to create a table of their own):
{table]Roll of...| What Happens| Mechanics
1| Head Removed| LoS no longer applies to body, but instead the severed head (assuming the head contains what the creature requires to see). Head is usually two size categories smaller then body. Head cannot move on its own, but its bite natural weapon makes it an effective caltrop with 'spread the disease'.
2| Eviscerated| Creature's base speed is reduced to 1/6. Its legs fall prone and are blind and deaf, but they can stand as a full action and make unarmed strikes. Only leg oriented skills can be performed at full modifier such as tumble and jump. Climb and Swim modifiers are 1/2 for legs. All other skills are impossible. Creature is always treated as prone.
3| Cut off at the Knees| Creature's base speed is reduced to 1/3. Leg oriented skills such as tumble and jump are now performed at 1/4. Swim and Climb are performed at 1/2. Creature can stand on knees and move as if they had full legs with a DC 10 balance check made each round that they do so. Creature is always treated as prone.
4| Lose Lesser Arm| Creature no longer has an off-hand. They have one less arm for the purpose of tasks performed with multiple arms.
5| Lose Good Arm| Creature loses a main hand. They have one less arm for the purpose of tasks performed with multiple arms.
6| Lose Leg| Creature must succeed on a DC 15 balance check each round or fall prone unless they manage to find a stable surface to support them while they move. Moving in the latter pattern reduces base speed by 1/3. Moving in the former reduces base speed by 3/4.
7| Utterly Mauled| Creature has a -8 penalty to dexterity (minimum 1) unless they manage to hold their constituent body parts together as a move action. Base speed is now 1/2.
8| Split down the middle| Creature is now two creatures. Base speed is 1/8 for each new creature.
[/table]
Note: Dividing movement always rounds down to nearest 5ft. (ie. 14ft. = 10ft., 7 ft. = 5ft.). If movement is less then 5ft. before rounding down, then it becomes 5ft. on a full action required to move and 0ft. base speed. Dividing modifiers always round down to nearest whole number.

Unliving take half damage from bludgeoning and piercing weapons (or slashing and piercing if mostly skeletal), full damage from slashing weapons (if 'fleshy') or full damage from bludgeoning (if mostly skeletal), and double damage from fire, acid and any spells that destroy or annihilate matter (such as disintegrate).

If an unliving is reduced to hp equivalent to negative its total health in any attack that bypasses its DR (unless the unliving creature's description specifies otherwise), or reduced to 0 hp with attacks that do not bypass its DR, it is considered dismembered, and can no longer take any actions.

Though individual parts remain dangerous, they are unable to act effectively in combat and pose no threat to careful characters or NPCs. An unconscious or immobile character left in an area that contains the remains of an unliving must make a fortitude save every minute (DC 10 + 1/2 HD of the original unliving + unliving's own fortitude save modifier) or gain the unliving subtype. This threat can be removed only by spending time purifying the area with fire, acid or a similar effect (usually taking 1 minute per HD of the base creature.)

Dismembered body parts that contain natural weapons function exactly like caltrops, with the exception that they have a -1 attacks for each size category above diminutive and deal their natural weapon damage at a -4 modifier (minimum 0) whenever a character's foot would be wounded. Unlike caltrops, they can usually be spotted easily. If any additional affect applies to damage dealt by the natural weapon (ie. poison), it applies to the effective caltrop as well.

If the body part containing the natural weapon is size medium or larger, then it becomes a creature of its own! Reduce hp from complete creature in accordance to the body part's new size category and apply Natural Armor, Strength and Dexterity at GM discretion (usually similar to complete creature, but less). At GM discretion, it can also move - logic is advised however (a severed hand can stand and trot on its own, while a head, a finger, or a foot cannot).


* Not affected by raise dead and reincarnate spells or abilities. Resurrection and true resurrection can affect unliving creatures. These spells turn unliving creatures back into the living creatures they were before becoming unliving (remove unliving template) and heal them to full hp. Greater restoration removes the template, however damage dealt to creature remains.
* Proficient with anything it was proficient with in life. Because this is a template (even though it behaves like an over-type), the creature still has all the feats and class/racial features, languages, etc., it had in life.
* Unliving do not breathe or sleep (unless made to; in other words, not naturally), however they do feast upon brains in order to stave off the horrible pain that drives them to utter madness in their unlife
* Shift alignment to chaotic evil. Wisdom score becomes 1. Unliving behave irrationally (much like typical zombies, hoarding, slamming into walls, etc.) because they are completely insane with the desire for brains. Use charisma modifier for will saves. Use wisdom modifier as usual on all wisdom based skill checks with the exception of spot and listen, which use charisma instead.
* Gain bite as a natural weapon, dealing damage appropriate to their size. Bite is at a -2 penalty (stacks with usual incremental -5 penalty for natural attacks made after main attacks) unless the attack is made against a creature they are grappling with. If bite is already a natural weapon for the creature, use that instead (creature does not gain an additional bite attack).
* Acquire bonus hit points in accordance with their size as a creature of the construct over-type does.
* Acquire Scent.
* Acquire Spread the Disease (Ex)
* Must consume brains constantly or be afflicted with wracking pain.


Spread the Disease (Ex)

Anyone whom is a victim of your bite attack, or who consumes your blood, or comes in contact with whatever made you acquire the unliving template, should they fail a fortitude save of DC 30, will suffer 1d4 constitution damage every 10 minutes. Once their constitution reaches 0, they 'die'. They are still conscious, and able to talk but are nauseated. 1d20 minutes later, they acquire the unliving template.

The disease can only be cured with 'cure disease', but the cured person will die immediately without follow-up casting of greater restoration (potentially only possible as a readied action).

NOTE: Freddy was originally a 1st level humanoid before he turned.
------

New Combat Action

New Combat Maneuver: Two or more opponents may announce that they are combining their attack efforts in a single round, allowing them to add their damage rolls together. Combined attacks are taken at a -3 penalty to attack, and take place during the turn of the player who is later in the initiative order. Players combining an attack must be aware of each other and able to communicate. If two or more players ready an action to combine attacks, they instead take no attack penalty on the trigger.

Debihuman
2010-01-30, 12:31 PM
How are some of the things you list "exceptions?"

*All hit die become 12 sided. -- Not an exception
* No Constitution score. -- Not an exception

More importantly this strikes me as awfully similar to the Deathless Type in the Book of Exalted Deeds.

Debby

arguskos
2010-01-30, 12:40 PM
The difference between Deathless and this subtype is that Deathless is a full-on creature type, like Undead or Ooze, and this is a subtype of Humanoid, meaning it interacts differently to certain spells, etc.

imp_fireball
2010-01-31, 07:34 PM
The difference between Deathless and this subtype is that Deathless is a full-on creature type, like Undead or Ooze, and this is a subtype of Humanoid, meaning it interacts differently to certain spells, etc.

That's exactly what I intended. :smallsmile:

Anyone who's seen 'return of the living dead' want to comment on this?

Scorpions__
2010-02-03, 09:55 PM
"BRAINS!" *As he bites into Suicide's head like a crunchy apple*

*Sees the children coming down the stairs*

"MORE BRAINS!"


I love that movie... just for that part...





DM[F]R

Debihuman
2010-02-04, 08:14 AM
You should note that the CR is +2 for this creature. I'm rather at a loss to understand why they gain bonus hit points like Constructs because they are still Humanoid. Do you recalculate stats when you gain this template? You should mention it.


Killing it beyond this stage means nothing short of total cremation, including cremation of the ashes.

Sounds a bit like Fire vulnerabilty to me....

Debby

imp_fireball
2010-02-04, 10:53 PM
You should note that the CR is +2 for this creature. I'm rather at a loss to understand why they gain bonus hit points like Constructs because they are still Humanoid. Do you recalculate stats when you gain this template? You should mention it.



Sounds a bit like Fire vulnerabilty to me....

Debby

You could also chop them into little bits, but that takes a lot longer than cremation.

Technically, everything is vulnerable to fire if its hot enough (cremation means lots of fire damage; also the creature is paralyzed at this point so it'd just burn in the space over time), except those immune to fire.

Debihuman
2010-02-05, 08:12 AM
The special ability, "Fire Vulnerability" means the creature takes an additional 50% more damage than not having fire vulnerability.

Debby

Saurus33
2010-02-06, 12:06 AM
But thing is, it isn't any more likely to be damaged by fire than anything else. It can only be killed through cremation, but that is because it completely destroys whatever happens to be cremated. In D&D, it would probably be possible to kill them with disintegration.

Debihuman
2010-02-06, 06:19 AM
Actually, once a creature is at -10 hp, it is dead but you are changing a major premise of the game. Furthermore, you didn't give it any special abilities to regenerate once it is dead.


Must reduce to negative hit points equal to total hp in order to incapacitate every body part - at this stage, it can't naturally heal, however it is still 'alive' and paralyzed as the condition (and so mundane assisted healing, or construct healing spells will remove the paralyzed condition). Killing it beyond this stage means nothing short of total cremation, including cremation of the ashes.

This is a bookkeeping nightmare for the DM as Freddy need to be taken to -26 hit points to be "incapacitated." Not only is this a ridiculous amount of damage for the CR you've set, but I doubt that the party would survive. I am not fond of TPK monsters. It also violates the standard rule of death at -10 hit points.

In addition, you've never stated how much fire damage is needed to equal cremation. These things don't have regeneration (or fast healing), or at least your sample doesn't, so your comments regarding those are moot. Even trolls die when burned to -10 hit points. If this isn't true for your creature, then you need to have rules that can fit what happens.

Debby

imp_fireball
2010-02-06, 07:37 AM
But thing is, it isn't any more likely to be damaged by fire than anything else. It can only be killed through cremation, but that is because it completely destroys whatever happens to be cremated. In D&D, it would probably be possible to kill them with disintegration.

Good idea actually.

Yah, I'll change it to 'total destruction of the body until all signs of its existence are erased (from the material plane/whatever plane adventurers reside on at the time)' - which could preclude anything.

Destroying the body beyond -26 hp (in this case) is up to GM discretion (basically, it leaves the GM to say, "Okay, now you gotta dispose of the body. And watch out for the twitching fingers, etc. They'll wiggle themselves up from out of the ground if you aren't careful.").


Furthermore, you didn't give it any special abilities to regenerate once it is dead.

It doesn't need to regenerate though, since it can't die (it's already dead; undead on the other hand 'die' because the negative energy holding them together weakens or whatever; at least that's how I play it).

The 'paralysis' effect is there to reflect that the creature has been totally disemboweled and the job is pretty much done, although the remains might scare the locals since they can still flop around in a very inefficient manner (no combat effect, considered 'paralysis'). Once it is healed to (in the case of Freddy) something greater than -26 hp, it can move once more - perhaps because you happened to stitch some of its limbs back together.


Not only is this a ridiculous amount of damage for the CR you've set

On the other hand, Freddy's got no BAB, and very low attack even while grappling. If he lucks out though (which he might, considering the number of hits he can take), then the party will encounter trouble unless the cleric has cure disease handy. Really, it forces the players to play smart and try an alternative approach to the frontal assault.

What CR would you suggest btw?


then you need to have rules that can fit what happens.

I made some rules (but without anything like a table of adjustments), though I'm assuming you don't like them. What rules would you suggest?


I'm rather at a loss to understand why they gain bonus hit points like Constructs because they are still Humanoid.

The template pretty much makes them constructs in the sense that they are now 'masses of un-living matter' which is the description given to constructs in the SRD to justify bonus hit points according to their size.

Debihuman
2010-02-06, 08:19 AM
On the other hand, Freddy's got no BAB, and very low attack even while grappling. If he lucks out though (which he might, considering the number of hits he can take), then the party will encounter trouble unless the cleric has cure disease handy. Really, it forces the players to play smart and try an alternative approach to the frontal assault.

Freddy is also a 1 HD monster with effectively 52 hit points before he is "killed" though that is a relative phrase. So he's got a glass jaw in combat, but he still is hard to take down. This is a classic example of bad monster design. At higher levels, Freddy isn't much of a challenge; but at lower levels, he's too much of a challenge.

Also, your Bite is off. Bite is a secondary attack at -5 penalty since Freddy doesn't have the Multiattack feat. This would be in ADDITION to the -2 penalty in the template, unless you mean that it has a -2 penalty instead of the normal -5 penalty. You should state if this is the case. This effectively gives him the benefit of the Multiattack Feat without actually having it.

Debby

imp_fireball
2010-02-06, 04:52 PM
This is a classic example of bad monster design. At higher levels, Freddy isn't much of a challenge; but at lower levels, he's too much of a challenge.


Puh, hardly.

Your justification is 'lots of hp = hard to beat'. There's more to pen and paper than that you know.

Also, I think the creature should be tested before you go off on condemning it to 'poor design'.

Solaris
2010-02-07, 02:43 AM
Why not just give them regeneration?

Debihuman
2010-02-07, 09:07 AM
Puh, hardly.

Your justification is 'lots of hp = hard to beat'. There's more to pen and paper than that you know.

Also, I think the creature should be tested before you go off on condemning it to 'poor design'.


It's not the actual hit points that are the problem, it's the ones from -1 to -26 that are problematic.

You may be as sceptical as you like, but I know monster design quite well. For the record, I looked up the rules on fire damage. A creature takes 1d6 points of damage from being on fire each round.

Here's the tactics for beating Freddy: you cast hold person on Freddy, attack at range until he reaches -1 hit points, and then you light him on fire until he is cremated. If the party has decent ranged weapons or can fly, he's still an easy target even without any spellcasters.

At CR 3, he's not a difficult monster to overcome. He's actually quite easy. The problem is the negative hit points that need cremation. That's where it stops being interesting.

At -1 hp, a creature is immobile unless it has the Ferocity special ability. See MM for detail.

As long as you stay out of range, you beat on him until he is immobilized (27 hit points to reach -1, and then light him on fire). He fails his Reflex save (DC 15) because he's immobile and he catches on fire automatically [See rules for catching on fire]. He takes 1d6 points of fire damage each round until he reaches -26 hit points and is cremated. At an average of 3.5 points per round, it takes on average 7 rounds to cremate Freddy.

Don't forget, bigger bodies take longer to burn because of the bonus hit points based on size.

An Unliving Ogre (size Large) has 4d12+30 hit points (56 hit points), not quite double for an Ogre at 29 hit points. However, it takes until -56 to burn it. That's 16 rounds of waiting for it to go from -1 hit points to -56 hit points. [56 3.5 = 16].

As a DM, I don't want 16 rounds of burning time to eat up an encounter. That's too long.

Giving out Regeneration just adds more time to an already overlong combat session for a single creature. I'd rather the party face a troll with filth fever. At least then, the burning only takes about 3 rounds.

[Edit] At least with Fire vulnerability, the wait time between when you light it on fire until it is cremated would be shortened.

Debby

imp_fireball
2010-06-21, 04:37 PM
It's not the actual hit points that are the problem, it's the ones from -1 to -26 that are problematic.

You may be as sceptical as you like, but I know monster design quite well. For the record, I looked up the rules on fire damage. A creature takes 1d6 points of damage from being on fire each round.

Here's the tactics for beating Freddy: you cast hold person on Freddy, attack at range until he reaches -1 hit points, and then you light him on fire until he is cremated. If the party has decent ranged weapons or can fly, he's still an easy target even without any spellcasters.

At CR 3, he's not a difficult monster to overcome. He's actually quite easy. The problem is the negative hit points that need cremation. That's where it stops being interesting.

At -1 hp, a creature is immobile unless it has the Ferocity special ability. See MM for detail.

As long as you stay out of range, you beat on him until he is immobilized (27 hit points to reach -1, and then light him on fire). He fails his Reflex save (DC 15) because he's immobile and he catches on fire automatically [See rules for catching on fire]. He takes 1d6 points of fire damage each round until he reaches -26 hit points and is cremated. At an average of 3.5 points per round, it takes on average 7 rounds to cremate Freddy.

Don't forget, bigger bodies take longer to burn because of the bonus hit points based on size.

An Unliving Ogre (size Large) has 4d12+30 hit points (56 hit points), not quite double for an Ogre at 29 hit points. However, it takes until -56 to burn it. That's 16 rounds of waiting for it to go from -1 hit points to -56 hit points. [56 3.5 = 16].

As a DM, I don't want 16 rounds of burning time to eat up an encounter. That's too long.

Giving out Regeneration just adds more time to an already overlong combat session for a single creature. I'd rather the party face a troll with filth fever. At least then, the burning only takes about 3 rounds.

[Edit] At least with Fire vulnerability, the wait time between when you light it on fire until it is cremated would be shortened.

Debby


Once the creature's moving at lowered speed, then the encounter can actually go fairly quickly - players can move away from it and watch it burn. The extra 16 rounds will consist entirely of "I'll move another so-and-so-feet away northwards, minding my step and looking out for traps". A GM can skip ahead several rounds and then crunch the numbers if players tell him that they will just use the same tactic round after round (and if they happen to move into another surprise in the mean time, then he rolls initiative for the new creature and informs the players and then combat slows down again). It works well for long encounters, imo, which would occur realistically (in real life, combat encounters often last several minutes, not seconds; a shoot out that lasts hours would involve several combat encounters with the same creature though).

Poppatomus
2010-06-21, 05:21 PM
Liking the movie as I do, may i suggest a different mechanism for the hit point issue?

Rather than being reduced below -10, consider a more construct like approach:

Cannot die: Every part of the unliving is a danger, allowing it to pose a threat far longer than the average opponent. As a result, unlike normal creatures, unliving creatures do not take incremental damage, but must be destroyed piece by piece. When dealing damage to a unliving opponent, any attack that deals less than 12 damage (1 HD) is instead treated as doing no damage. Any attack that does more than 12, but less than 24 is treated as dealing 12, and so on.

In order to meet this threshold, two or more opponents may announce that they are combining their attack efforts in a single round, allowing them to add their damage rolls together. Combined attacks are taken at a -2 penalty to attack, and take place during the turn of the player who is later in the initiative order. Players combining an attack must be aware of each other and able to communicate.

Unliving take half damage from bludgeoning and piercing weapons, full damage from slashing weapons, and double damage from fire, acid and any spells that destroy or annihilate matter (such as disintegrate). If an unliving creature loses more than three quarters of its HP it's speed drops by 1/2 and it takes a -2 on attack rolls against non-flatfooted opponents.

If an unliving is reduced to -10 HP it is considered dismembered, and can no longer take any actions. Though individual parts remain dangerous, they are unable to act effectively in combat and pose no threat to careful characters or NPCs, though an unconscious or immobile character left in an area that contains the remains of an unliving must make a fortitude save every minute (DC 10+HD of the original unliving) or gain the unliving subtype. This threat can be removed by only by spending time purifying the area with fire, acid or a similar effect (usually taking 1 minute per HD of the base creature.)


Convoluted, i know, but might be worth building on.

imp_fireball
2010-06-22, 05:24 PM
Liking the movie as I do, may i suggest a different mechanism for the hit point issue?

Rather than being reduced below -10, consider a more construct like approach:

Cannot die: Every part of the unliving is a danger, allowing it to pose a threat far longer than the average opponent. As a result, unlike normal creatures, unliving creatures do not take incremental damage, but must be destroyed piece by piece. When dealing damage to a unliving opponent, any attack that deals less than 12 damage (1 HD) is instead treated as doing no damage. Any attack that does more than 12, but less than 24 is treated as dealing 12, and so on.

In order to meet this threshold, two or more opponents may announce that they are combining their attack efforts in a single round, allowing them to add their damage rolls together. Combined attacks are taken at a -2 penalty to attack, and take place during the turn of the player who is later in the initiative order. Players combining an attack must be aware of each other and able to communicate.

Unliving take half damage from bludgeoning and piercing weapons, full damage from slashing weapons, and double damage from fire, acid and any spells that destroy or annihilate matter (such as disintegrate). If an unliving creature loses more than three quarters of its HP it's speed drops by 1/2 and it takes a -2 on attack rolls against non-flatfooted opponents.

If an unliving is reduced to -10 HP it is considered dismembered, and can no longer take any actions. Though individual parts remain dangerous, they are unable to act effectively in combat and pose no threat to careful characters or NPCs, though an unconscious or immobile character left in an area that contains the remains of an unliving must make a fortitude save every minute (DC 10+HD of the original unliving) or gain the unliving subtype. This threat can be removed by only by spending time purifying the area with fire, acid or a similar effect (usually taking 1 minute per HD of the base creature.)


Convoluted, i know, but might be worth building on.

Excellent idea. I think that dismembered natural weapons though should function like caltrops - except instead of slowing a character's speed, they just deal damage against the character.


Any attack that does more than 12, but less than 24 is treated as dealing 12, and so on.

Hm... maybe, DR 12/total creature's hp in lethal damage? Meaning DR 12 applies to any attack that does not reduce the creature to 0hp in one shot?

Maybe the creature should be partially dismembered at 0hp (roll table - lose an off-hand, lose a main hand, lose head (line of sight is no longer allocated to body), lose legs (speed is 1/6, round to nearest space (5ft.; thus 6ft. = 5ft.)), and then at negative (some number = -10 - creature HD - 4 per size above medium and + 4 per size below medium; minimum -10).


Cannot die: Every part of the unliving is a danger, allowing it to pose a threat far longer than the average opponent. As a result, unlike normal creatures, unliving creatures do not take incremental damage, but must be destroyed piece by piece. DR 12 applies to any attack that does not reduce the creature to 0 hp in one rolled attack resulting in damage.

NOTE: Some creatures have greater DR due to being naturally more difficult to hack apart. This is at GM discretion.

The creature is partially dismembered at 0 hp (roll table - lose an off-hand, lose a main hand, lose head (line of sight is no longer allocated to body; head is usually two size categories smaller then full creature and cannot move on its own), lose legs (speed is 1/6, round to nearest space (5ft.; thus 6ft. = 5ft.)), and then at negative some number (-10 - creature HD - 4 per size above medium and + 4 per size below medium; minimum -10), the creature is dismembered enough to be unable to move.

Unliving take half damage from bludgeoning and piercing weapons, full damage from slashing weapons, and double damage from fire, acid and any spells that destroy or annihilate matter (such as disintegrate). If an unliving creature loses more than three quarters of its HP it's speed drops by 1/2 and it takes a -2 on attack rolls against non-flatfooted opponents.

If an unliving is reduced to -10 HP it is considered dismembered, and can no longer take any actions. Though individual parts remain dangerous, they are unable to act effectively in combat and pose no threat to careful characters or NPCs, though an unconscious or immobile character left in an area that contains the remains of an unliving must make a fortitude save every minute (DC 10+HD of the original unliving) or gain the unliving subtype. This threat can be removed by only by spending time purifying the area with fire, acid or a similar effect (usually taking 1 minute per HD of the base creature.)

Dismembered natural weapons function exactly like caltrops, with the exception that they have a +1 bonus to attacks for each size category above diminutive. Unlike caltrops, they can usually be spotted easily.

Alternative Ruling: Attacks that reduce the unliving to 0 hp result in partial dismemberment as normal, however in order to fully dismember the creature, an opponent must partially dismember the creature enough times (at GM discretion) to render it immobile. Knocking a creature into negative hp equivalent to its total hp results in double dismemberment, as does knocking it into double negative its total hp would result in triple dismemberment, etc.

Energy attacks that destroy matter such as fire, acid and spells such as disintegrate do not deal double damage - instead, they utterly destroy the unliving when damaging it to the point where it would be normally rendered immobile.

New Combat Action

New Combat Maneuver: Two or more opponents may announce that they are combining their attack efforts in a single round, allowing them to add their damage rolls together. Combined attacks are taken at a -3 penalty to attack, and take place during the turn of the player who is later in the initiative order. Players combining an attack must be aware of each other and able to communicate. If two or more players ready an action to combine attacks, they instead take no attack penalty on the trigger.


Sound good at all?

Lord Vukodlak
2010-06-22, 05:50 PM
Return of the Living Dead Zombies still meet all the qualifications for being
undead. Don't split hairs their undead. The only reason to have them not be undead is to screw PC's over so their spells and items that specially effect undead don't work.

Your trying to recreate undead but without negative energy why? could a disease not cause a subject to die and rise as an undead? Ever hear of Ghoul Fever?
You also try and duplicate things already done in weird ad-hoc ways.
The reason that say the zombie template doubles the creatures hit dice is because they are that much harder to kill. With an ogre you only need to deal sufficient damage that it dies. An ogre zombie needs sufficient damage that the body collapses.

Your unliving ogre has 24hp and isn't destroyed until -24. A Ogre Zombie has 55hp and isn't destroyed until 0. Notice its more or less exactly the same.

So simply take the regular skeleton and zombie templates and modify them,
add in they aren't effected by positive or negative energy if you want, but really whose to say the Return of the Living dead zombies aren't animated by negative energy there's no magic in that film.

Put in the additional bite attack and the disease, I'd lower it DC though to 10+1/2 with maybe some +x so it adjusts with CR a bit better.

imp_fireball
2010-06-22, 07:59 PM
I changed it up a bit.


Your unliving ogre has 24hp and isn't destroyed until -24. A Ogre Zombie has 55hp and isn't destroyed until 0. Notice its more or less exactly the same.

Only problem is that return of the living dead zombies never die. Ever.

D&D zombies die when they've been chopped up enough. Maybe the head got hacked off. Maybe the torso was eviscerated and then skull was curb stopped. For whatever reason the negative energy keeping the thing animated suddenly ceased to exist.

Lord Vukodlak
2010-06-22, 08:07 PM
when you pulverize them to the point they can do nothing you can call them dead

imp_fireball
2010-06-22, 11:06 PM
when you pulverize them to the point they can do nothing you can call them dead

The rules already account for that. :P

imp_fireball
2010-06-24, 06:28 PM
I cleaned up the OP and edited it again.

PEACH?