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View Full Version : DMing a 5th level Gestalt Campaign [3.x]



AirGuitarGod32
2010-01-31, 02:13 PM
Hey Y'all. I'm DMing a Gestalt Campaing starting at 5th level. I have a few questions on this:

1. I want the party to have a challenge with encounters. The premise is based on a world in which magic is regulated to extreme levels (ie: Only specific orders are alowed to use magic, and even then, magic is under lots of laws and restrictions. That doesn't mean "rogue orders" don't exist). The idea is that corruption within these orders are the core of the campaign's troubles. What sorts of encounters should I focus on?

2. Thanks to Dragon Age: Origins, I want the party to have a dog NPC to help them. I thought of having an Elven Warhound with levels. What would the "stats" be for this creature and what martial classes should it be?

3. The party has my old DM, and I'm waiving 2LA for most races (ie: Drow). Is this a good idea?

4. I want the BBEG to be a powerful arcanist who, at early levels, is the PCs main ally. What should he be and what classes should he have?


Thanks so much for the help y'all

AirGuitarGod32
2010-01-31, 04:23 PM
Any1 plz? Campaign is friday

golem1972
2010-01-31, 08:28 PM
Best of luck, I'm gearing up for a gestalt RHoD campaign my self.

1. In general, treat the party as if they were 1 level higher than their ecl/apl. Not sure on setting specific challenges (a little vague there), but patrols of mage slayers, clerics (if divine magic is ok), or wizard "cops" focusing on anti - caster tactics. Golems and a few other monsters are resistant to magic. At least one monster (Neshrou? AFB) actually eat magic. Spellwarped creatures could be your SWAT.

2. Sounds like you're building a DMPC. Be very careful as this can inspire quite a bit of player hatred. Having said that, any hound creature could work (even a hound archon). I'd suggest a gestalt with a Martial Adept build focusing on defense or battlefield control (don't use him to kill monsters / overcome challenges, use him to help the players do the killing / overcoming).

3. If everyone has a free +2 LA, then it's fair between the players. If anyone doesn't get the whole free +2, then they'll be weaker than the other players. Your challenges will be a little weaker compared to them too. I'd suggest that you just have LA take up one side of the gestalt so that anyone that wants a LA pays for it, but doesn't pay to dearly for it.

4. Tough one. Most of your memorable NPC's (not just the BBEG) should be Gestalted or at least well built. I'd suggest for an ally wizard, something like an Artificer // Wizard / Incantatrix. That's about as powerful as you can get. He can do research / divination, and he's got a reason to send the party off looking for stuff. He can build stuff for the PC's as well (within WBL, or possibly for a discount as part of their pay).

Things to remember:
Gestalt characters will have roughly the same good save as non gestalt characters. They'll just usually have better bad saves. So, if you're regularly beating good saves, tone it down a little.

Gestalt characters are more powerful than non gestalt, but they have the same number of actions. And "Action Economy" is the true coin of the realm.

Gestalt characters have more endurance. It may be better to throw more encounters than more powerful encounters at them.

Have fun. Don't be afraid to send a few of them through the grinder and keep a dead character pile. :)

AirGuitarGod32
2010-01-31, 09:02 PM
Best of luck, I'm gearing up for a gestalt RHoD campaign my self.

1. In general, treat the party as if they were 1 level higher than their ecl/apl. Not sure on setting specific challenges (a little vague there), but patrols of mage slayers, clerics (if divine magic is ok), or wizard "cops" focusing on anti - caster tactics. Golems and a few other monsters are resistant to magic. At least one monster (Neshrou? AFB) actually eat magic. Spellwarped creatures could be your SWAT.

2. Sounds like you're building a DMPC. Be very careful as this can inspire quite a bit of player hatred. Having said that, any hound creature could work (even a hound archon). I'd suggest a gestalt with a Martial Adept build focusing on defense or battlefield control (don't use him to kill monsters / overcome challenges, use him to help the players do the killing / overcoming).

3. If everyone has a free +2 LA, then it's fair between the players. If anyone doesn't get the whole free +2, then they'll be weaker than the other players. Your challenges will be a little weaker compared to them too. I'd suggest that you just have LA take up one side of the gestalt so that anyone that wants a LA pays for it, but doesn't pay to dearly for it.

4. Tough one. Most of your memorable NPC's (not just the BBEG) should be Gestalted or at least well built. I'd suggest for an ally wizard, something like an Artificer // Wizard / Incantatrix. That's about as powerful as you can get. He can do research / divination, and he's got a reason to send the party off looking for stuff. He can build stuff for the PC's as well (within WBL, or possibly for a discount as part of their pay).

Things to remember:
Gestalt characters will have roughly the same good save as non gestalt characters. They'll just usually have better bad saves. So, if you're regularly beating good saves, tone it down a little.

Gestalt characters are more powerful than non gestalt, but they have the same number of actions. And "Action Economy" is the true coin of the realm.

Gestalt characters have more endurance. It may be better to throw more encounters than more powerful encounters at them.

Have fun. Don't be afraid to send a few of them through the grinder and keep a dead character pile. :)

1. Divine is restricted as well, though less so overall. Mostly, it'd be Mage-Hunter types with items that grant certain immunities without being too useful to the PCs.

2. It'd be mostly a support, not main combat. I mean, we DO have a warforged who's taking Fighter//Barbarian

3. Most are either taking a template or running a 2LA race, except for the Warforged, who is getting better gear

4. I thought it'd be an Archmage who, much later, turns out to be a Rakshasa Vampire (I'm the DM, dammit). I also have a plan of a "retooled" bloodmage who can control one target against their will. This'd be VERY restricted to one PC target. That doesn't mean she wouldn't get "cohorts" :)

Zincorium
2010-02-01, 03:07 AM
First post:
1. Try upping the CR by adding in extenuating circumstances (fighting in darkness, or in waist-deep water, or the enemy has the high ground and good missile weapons) instead of just lumping on more HD. Without spellcaster's to act as win buttons once in a while, it's easy to bash a party up so much they aren't able to survive another encounter.

2. Scout//barbarian, at least two levels below the party. Let a PC control it in combat after advising them you'll veto unrealistic actions. Playing it yourself just adds to your workload, and if you're not already busy directing the monsters, choose more interesting monsters.

3. Put the LA on one side of the gestalt progression. Both LA and non LA characters are valid options using this method, as I generally find that LA is worth a level of class features without being worth class levels. Free LA only works well if everyone takes the option.

4. Rhakshasa//vampire/blackguard//sorceror/blood mage. You're the DM, you can do triple gestalt, just up the treasure and XP to compensate.

second post
1. If the PCs can't use them, don't describe them as items. Since dispelling won't be an issue, having the effects be represented as spells/rituals prevents pissing off the players when they loot the shiny objects and you tell them it doesn't work.

2. Fighter//barbarian is totally missing both the point and the potential of gestalt. It has no options in combat or out that a multiclassed character wouldn't- I can't actually recommend increasing the CR at all if this is the general Op-Fu level of your players.

3. The gear had better be freaking awesome, see both 2 above and the fact that other characters are getting free stuff.

4. Is a player cool with these sorts of ideas? Because it's not going to work otherwise. No matter how awesome it seems in your head, there's no good way of doing it without having the *player* go over to your side.

AirGuitarGod32
2010-02-01, 07:27 AM
First post:
1. Try upping the CR by adding in extenuating circumstances (fighting in darkness, or in waist-deep water, or the enemy has the high ground and good missile weapons) instead of just lumping on more HD. Without spellcaster's to act as win buttons once in a while, it's easy to bash a party up so much they aren't able to survive another encounter.

2. Scout//barbarian, at least two levels below the party. Let a PC control it in combat after advising them you'll veto unrealistic actions. Playing it yourself just adds to your workload, and if you're not already busy directing the monsters, choose more interesting monsters.

3. Put the LA on one side of the gestalt progression. Both LA and non LA characters are valid options using this method, as I generally find that LA is worth a level of class features without being worth class levels. Free LA only works well if everyone takes the option.

4. Rhakshasa//vampire/blackguard//sorceror/blood mage. You're the DM, you can do triple gestalt, just up the treasure and XP to compensate.

second post
1. If the PCs can't use them, don't describe them as items. Since dispelling won't be an issue, having the effects be represented as spells/rituals prevents pissing off the players when they loot the shiny objects and you tell them it doesn't work.

2. Fighter//barbarian is totally missing both the point and the potential of gestalt. It has no options in combat or out that a multiclassed character wouldn't- I can't actually recommend increasing the CR at all if this is the general Op-Fu level of your players.

3. The gear had better be freaking awesome, see both 2 above and the fact that other characters are getting free stuff.

4. Is a player cool with these sorts of ideas? Because it's not going to work otherwise. No matter how awesome it seems in your head, there's no good way of doing it without having the *player* go over to your side.

1. Note: There'll still be mages, just that the early end is to "root out rogue orders." As for the policing, wizards and mage-hunters are the meat and potatoes of the encounters, with spell-resistant beasties pulling the heavier encounters. Also, "villains," namely Lolth, Strahd, Demogorgon, and Asmodeus, among others, will be major "allies" for the PCs, mostly as mission-givers.

2. That works smoother. And Scout//Barbarian is an excellent combo.

3. I'm literally giving him gear thats 4 levels higher at all times.

4. pt 1: Sort of the idea. he's a 20th + level solo encounter
pt 2: alrighty...Maybe just a physical paralysis, not actual involuntary movements? This villain would be a high-end opponent, so I thought that temporary control, ie: will save ends, would be an appropriate power for a "Witch of the Briar" who later tells the PCs of the Archmage's Treachery.

AirGuitarGod32
2010-02-01, 12:18 PM
Okay. Hate to admit it, but maybe the "Mage Apocolypse" is a little OTT right now. Retooling..........

How would an Undead Apocolypse fair vs the earlier-suggested, considering I'm retooling Strahd for 20th lv PCs, and making him immune to almost everything, save certain loopholes.