Bleach Chapter 391

[Shadowbane]

This was a very interesting chapter. (http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/391/01/)

For once, I enjoyed it. A good one after many bad ones. I particularly love

Shinji's smile when Aizen realizes what's going on.

[Dr.Epic]

You know, I don't like Bleach and I'm not about to start a flame war, but how in the name of original storylines does any piece of fiction have 391 CHAPTERS!!!

[Shadowbane]

Naruto has 481.

[SlyGuyMcFly]

You know, I don't like Bleach and I'm not about to start a flame war, but how in the name of original storylines does any piece of fiction have 391 CHAPTERS!!!

My understanding is that manga counts chapters differently. Think of 'em more like your average superhero comic's 'issues'

More on topic: Haven't read it yet, I've got some catching up to do. :smallsmile:

[Dr.Epic]

Naruto has 481.

I'm not going to start a flame war against the various animes I can't stand, but after a certain number of episodes, a series just has to end - unless you're the Simpsons in which case you're immortal. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VH_8CjIoVWE&feature=related)

[Shadowbane]

I'm not going to start a flame war against the various animes I can't stand, but after a certain number of episodes, a series just has to end - unless you're the Simpsons in which case you're immortal. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VH_8CjIoVWE&feature=related)

That's the second time you've said that. That means you're on the path to it. So stop.

[13_CBS]

Well, if long comic series aren't your thing then I hope you don't ever try reading...

Western Comics (Superman has been around before, what, WWII? Batman for almost as long.)

Hajime no Ippo (882 chapters long and still continuing)
Detective Conan (721 chapters, still ongoing)
One Piece (one of the current Big 3 (One Piece, Bleach, Naruto), at 573 chapters and is one of the most popular manga right now)
Initial D (577 chapters)
Dragon Ball (520 chapters, considered a manga classic. Ended)

Bleach is actually somewhat new and short compared to these monstrosities.

The longest shoujo (young female teen oriented) manga that I know of is Basara, at 153 chapters (ended).

By the way, these numbers are only based off of scanlated manga--unofficial fan translations. Some of the above series may actually be longer in Japan.

[Vulkan]

Better then Naruto's most recent chapter.. All that matters..
Well time to see the bull hax Aizen pulls next chapter.. I'm actually hoping in a way Gin is the true puppet master or was a spy.. I like Gin

[13_CBS]

Better then Naruto's most recent chapter.. All that matters..

Eh, it pains me to say this, but until Tite Kubo lets us read about something other than just one big long fight scene, I'll always consider Naruto to be superior to Bleach.

FYI, I consider Naruto to be very shaky in terms of quality.

[Demons_eye]

Reminds me of many warcraft maps when you get 4 heros to gank some poor guy.

[Zeful]

You know, I don't like Bleach and I'm not about to start a flame war, but how in the name of original storylines does any piece of fiction have 391 CHAPTERS!!!

Manga counts chapters differently. A chapter is about 13-20 pages, sometimes more for double issues. In novel terms Bleach is roughly Chapter 8 of book 4.

[Tavar]

And, as another poster said, it has nothing on western comics, like Batman, Superman, and the like.

[Dr.Epic]

Well, if long comic series aren't your thing then I hope you don't ever try reading...

Western Comics (Superman has been around before, what, WWII? Batman for almost as long.)

And that's why I can't read mainstream comics: nothing ever gets done and nothing ever completely gets resolved.


Manga counts chapters differently. A chapter is about 13-20 pages, sometimes more for double issues. In novel terms Bleach is roughly Chapter 8 of book 4.

Can you name any other series that's had a total of 391 chapters when you combine all the chapters in every book. And if what you saw is true, that means each book has over 100 chapters. For most novels, that would be like a chapter every 1-2 pages.

[13_CBS]

And that's why I can't read mainstream comics: nothing ever gets done and nothing ever completely gets resolved.


I'm guessing that story arcs don't work for you? They're supposed to at least create the illusion that characters and things change over the course of the comic.

[afroakuma]

Can you name any other series that's had a total of 391 chapters when you combine all the chapters in every book. And if what you saw is true, that means each book has over 100 chapters. For most novels, that would be like a chapter every 1-2 pages.

This is... not the topic. At all.

On topic: this was an awesome, awesome chapter. Someone is having his first ever Very Bad Day. Even though he's gonna Mary Sue his way out of it next issue.

[Dr.Epic]

I'm guessing that story arcs don't work for you? They're supposed to at least create the illusion that characters and things change over the course of the comic.

Part of me just doesn't like how the stories never ends. It never reaches a climax, sure there are climaxes in story arches, but the plot continues and everything after that seems kind of silly for the character to fight. I mean you just defeated this insanely powerful villain and everything after that should be cake but it's not. It's like in animes: there are story arches that require the main character to become like this god-like entity, then this other god-like entity comes along and they have to get more powerful and no matter how powerful said character gets, everybody in their current story arch is capable of fighting him for at least 2-3 episodes (sometimes even longer).

[afroakuma]

Part of me just doesn't like how the stories never ends.

Then don't partake. Simple solution.


It never reaches a climax, sure there are climaxes in story arches, but the plot continues and everything after that seems kind of silly for the character to fight.

Profit, my boy. See also: Dragonball Z.

Myself, I rather enjoyed the Arrancar saga. I know I'm not alone in thinking it managed to retain the quality of earlier arcs and still pull off its own awesome moments. Also, we're actually witnessing concluding events play out, if not for the entire series then certainly for the arc. Given the story Kubo's laid out, he's showing off a lot of the final outline of the plot in either case.

[Dr.Epic]

Profit, my boy. See also: Dragonball Z.

But that kills good story writing. And also I was kind of referencing Dragonball in my little rant.

[afroakuma]

But that kills good story writing.

If writers got paid by that standard, then it would matter to them.

However, if those who complain about extensions decry the poor storylines, then they'll remove themselves from the viewership and allow the cheap add-ons to continue making a profit. There's absolutely 0 consequence for the owner of a profitable property to not end it.

What's nice is that mangaka tend towards closing down their projects after a time, even if being paid ludicrous sums. Naruto is slowly spinning down, but I can't yet see the end in sight for it. Bleach is becoming far clearer, especially since Tosen just delineated what appears to be the answer to Ichigo's latest (and presumably ultimate) shonen upgrade.

[13_CBS]

On topic: this was an awesome, awesome chapter. Someone is having his first ever Very Bad Day. Even though he's gonna Mary Sue his way out of it next issue.

Eh, the awesomeness is dampened by 2 things:

1) It's Aizen. Either it all turned out to be an illusion (so it was almost all in vain aside from whittling Aizen down a little for Ichigo to finish off) so it didn't really count, or Aizen loses and we must wonder why Ichigo was even necessary if all it took was a bunch of captains ganging up on Aizen. (Since Bleach is painfully, painfully Shounen, it's going to be the former, so the whole "captains wailing on Aizen" is going to feel rather pointless.)

2) It's yet another fight scene. Arc/action fatigue, anyone?

[Dr.Epic]

Even though he's gonna Mary Sue his way out of it next issue.

I've heard this phrase before and yet still do not know what a "Mary Sue" is. Please explain someone.

[afroakuma]

Eh, the awesomeness is dampened by 2 things:

1) It's Aizen. Either it all turned out to be an illusion (so it was almost all in vain aside from whittling Aizen down a little for Ichigo to finish off) so it didn't really count, or Aizen loses and we must wonder why Ichigo was even necessary if all it took was a bunch of captains ganging up on Aizen. (Since Bleach is painfully, painfully Shounen, it's going to be the former, so the whole "captains wailing on Aizen" is going to feel rather pointless.)

Bankai. Hollow. Resurreccion.

What this proves, assuming he doesn't illusion out of it (note I mentioned him using the Mary Sue Saving Throw) is that yes, he can be hit and is not simply invincible. It's the first step in what will be a loooong takedown.

Or, Gin might turn out to be the powerhouse, with Aizen being the fall guy. Who knows? :smallsmile:


2) It's yet another fight scene. Arc/action fatigue, anyone?

Meh; that's the point of the series. It's straight-up shonen. Thankfully, it's getting to the good parts instead of wasting time on Fraccion v. Lieutenants.

[13_CBS]

I've heard this phrase before and yet still do not know what a "Mary Sue" is. Please explain someone.

A tricky term to explain, and a lot of times the definition of a Mary Sue varies from person to person.

For me, a Mary Sue is a character that is portrayed as being flawless to the point where she becomes uninteresting. She's good at everything, fears little (or has no real reason to fear anything because her being skilled at everything solves all problems without issue), and is pretty much perfect in every way. Is another character questioning her wisdom or her methods? That character will always be portrayed in a negative light, since the Mary Sue couldn't possibly be wrong. Is someone fighting against the Mary Sue? The Mary Sue is guaranteed to win, and to win easily, since she's just that good at everything.

Such qualities has 2 consequences:

1) Her unrealistic perfection makes it difficult for the audience to connect with her in any real way, and in contemporary literature (and with contemporary audiences), a main character that an audience cannot sympathize with makes for a pretty doomed story.

2) Her amazing skill at everything kills a lot of the tension. If there's ever a problem that the Mary Sue needs to solve, it will be fixed easily and painlessly, since the Mary Sue is just that good at everything.

In the case of fanfiction, Mary Sue characters often end up making other canon characters look bad (usually by having them arbitrarily be opposed to the Mary Sue in someway, and thus automatically portrayed negatively), so this further alienates readers who may like the antagonized character.

(Male Mary Sues are often called Gary Stus or Marty Stus, and both Mary and Marty Sues are typically used to describe original characters in a derivative work.)

In the case of Bleach, and according to this interpretation of what a Mary Sue is, Aizen isn't really a Mary Sue--he's portrayed as being evil, after all. To make a video game analogy:

If a Mary Sue is a Player Character that's so powerful that the game is too easy...

...then Aizen is a boss or enemy that's so powerful that the game is frustratingly and unpleasantly difficult.

Aizen's so powerful in Bleach that anyone who ever bothers fighting is pretty much predicted to lose spectacularly, without ever having achieved very much.

edit:


Meh; that's the point of the series. It's straight-up shonen.

Not necessarily, or at least not for me. The better shounen series don't actually have as much fighting as Bleach does, even Naruto--there's plenty of times when the characters all just sit around and talk, or do something mundane (the Kage meeting in Naruto, or the comedy scenes in One Piece, or the backstory expositions in Negima, etc.), and it's the variety of these scenes mixed in with the action that keeps the manga interesting.

Shounen series do tend to be heavy on the action, that's undeniable. However, that doesn't mean that almost every single scene has to be an action scene. It's even worse in Bleach because almost all of the characters revert to a pretty samey personality when they fight:

Stoic, serious mode, with the occasional bit of condescending snark when they pull off a big move--Hlibel, Hitsugaya, Byakuya, Yamamoto, most of the Shinigami lieutenants

Having fun--Ikkaku, Kenpachi, Nnoitora

Condescending mockery--Apollo Grantz (was that his name? The 8th mad scientist espada), Aaroniero, cocky fraccion whom I really don't care about cuz they're uninteresting, 1 dimensional characters

Clumsy and goofy--Madera (Soi Fong's lieutenant)

The Bleach characters don one of these personalities when they're fighting, and these personalities are 1 dimensional and get old really fast. Add this to the fact that they've been almost constantly fighting since Ichigo got to Hueco Mundo and fought some Espada rejects, and you have a manga series full of dull, flat characters.

Fight scenes are tricky to pull off well in a non-moving medium like a comic book--they have to be well drawn, they have to be paced well, and they have to do something other than just show off people's powers. Bleach does the first 2 things terribly, and the last thing in a mediocre way.




Thankfully, it's getting to the good parts instead of wasting time on Fraccion v. Lieutenants.

I actually enjoyed the Fraccion vs Lieutenants part the most, if only because at this point I only read Bleach to see who has what power. I've long stopped caring about the characters and their goals, so the fate of the entire gargantuan cast and Karakura town don't really interest me anymore.

[Shadowbane]

Part of me just doesn't like how the stories never ends. It never reaches a climax, sure there are climaxes in story arches, but the plot continues and everything after that seems kind of silly for the character to fight. I mean you just defeated this insanely powerful villain and everything after that should be cake but it's not. It's like in animes: there are story arches that require the main character to become like this god-like entity, then this other god-like entity comes along and they have to get more powerful and no matter how powerful said character gets, everybody in their current story arch is capable of fighting him for at least 2-3 episodes (sometimes even longer).

Please stop derailing my thread. Thank you.

This was a wonderful chapter. I sincerely hope Gin is the brains. I really really hope so.

[DraconicPaladin]

Hunter X Hunter is better *runs away* --whispers; Gon is awesome--

Anyway, I'm pretty sure what we see in the end is just an illusion of Aizen being stabbed. Mostly because it cant end in any other way then Ichigo ripping him a new one :smallwink:

[Mystic Muse]

This was a wonderful chapter. I sincerely hope Gin is the brains. I really really hope so.

I think this is going to turn out to be the case. What has Gin done in the series besides have a name that sounds vaguely like Orochimaru?

Also, maybe I'm taking this from the anime but Didn't hollow Ichigo or Ogochi or whatever you want to call him say that he and Ichigo would have to meet again if Ichigo really wanted to control his power?

[horngeek]

What I loved was finally seeing Aizen have an honest Oh Crap moment.

[Shadowbane]

Yeah. Particularly combined with Shinji's grin, but only half of it. Brilliant!

[Thrawn183]

Yeah when Aizen had the shield to protect the back of his neck, I was like *sigh* of course :(

This is a very nice change.

[Tavar]

Can you name any other series that's had a total of 391 chapters when you combine all the chapters in every book. And if what you saw is true, that means each book has over 100 chapters. For most novels, that would be like a chapter every 1-2 pages.
Did you read the part where he said that the term chapter means something different when referring to manga? It's like using the colloquial definition of theory while talking about scientific theories. Also, you have to take into account that the style tends to have much less information than on an equivalent page of text. Thus, those 3783 to 5820 pages in comic form would yield a much smaller book.

Also, you might want to watch your terminology. Anime refers to animation done in Japan, and from what I remember most of it tends to be equivalent to 1-3 seasons. What you're referring to is more appropriately called Shonen Anime. It's like watching CSI, and extrapolating the rules of Live Action TV from that. Even then it isn't always the case. Full Metal Alchemist certainly falls into that genre, and it has a clear beginning and end.

Really, unless it becomes absurdly long(Dragonball Z....), I fail to see what Length has to do with story quality.


On topic, I liked the installment. It shows that even Azien can be surprised, though I agree that he's not down yet.

[Prime32]

Eh, the awesomeness is dampened by 2 things:

1) It's Aizen. Either it all turned out to be an illusion (so it was almost all in vain aside from whittling Aizen down a little for Ichigo to finish off) so it didn't really count, or Aizen loses and we must wonder why Ichigo was even necessary if all it took was a bunch of captains ganging up on Aizen. (Since Bleach is painfully, painfully Shounen, it's going to be the former, so the whole "captains wailing on Aizen" is going to feel rather pointless.)

2) It's yet another fight scene. Arc/action fatigue, anyone?Ichigo was watching - wouldn't he point out if it was an illusion?

I'd say that Aizen pulls out his bankai, but that pretty much guarantees that this will be his last fight.

[Shadowbane]

Either bankai or some hollow form. Either way, I also want to know what happened to poor Ukitake. Hope!

[TheSummoner]

Eh... I just can't see it being over so soon (soon of course being relative)... there are too many unanswered questions.

Now... a very good point is brought up that if it were an illusion, Ichigo would be able to see through it and point it out to the rest... Not 100% ready to rule out an ass-pull some explanation that justifies them being under his illusion without Ichigo speaking up, but it does make it seem more likely that Aizen isn't doing as well as he had planned.

Now... IF Aizen has a hollow form like Tosen did, he could use that to heal himself back to full and continue fighting... seems a bit predictable though...

I mean, NO ONE expected what happened way back in the Soul Society arc before it actually happened...

Personally, I'm rooting for Gin becoming the new bigbad...

I think this is going to turn out to be the case. What has Gin done in the series besides have a name that sounds vaguely like Orochimaru?
EXACTLY! What DID Gin do yet? I mean... other than coming closer to permanantly killing a good character in a series where no one ever dies than anyone else so far, he hasn't done much. If the series ends next chapter, Aizen dead, the Arrancars defeated, everyone lives happily ever after, then he has done almost nothing...

I can understand there being a few good guys who don't do much other than stand in the background and make the world seem a little more alive, but antagonists? No way.

Its also worth noting that we haven't seen bankai from either Aizen or Gin yet.

Edit: On another note... Who else is fed up with all the damn anime filler? I'd almost rather have NO new episodes until the manga has a far enough lead than having to sit through another filler arc...

[Drolyt]

I've heard this phrase before and yet still do not know what a "Mary Sue" is. Please explain someone.

Mary Sue (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MarySue) is a fanfiction term referring to characters that are simply perfect in every way. If they have problems it will be teenage angsty problems. The fact that it is a female name is a consequence of the fact that most fanfiction writers are girls (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MostFanficWritersAreGirls). At any rate it should not be applied to canon characters.

As for the OPs question, I always felt that Bleach was at its best during the Soul Society Arc, and afterwords suffered severe arc fatigue, but this latest chapter was indeed awesome, if only so we could see Aizen actually have an Oh **** moment. Next chapter will be interesting just to see how he gets out of it, I don't think it was all an illusion, it wouldn't make any sense for us to see Aizen's perspective if it wasn't actually happening. Oh and Hunter x Hunter is better!

[Yarram]

Seriously? I bet you $1,000,000 that Aizen wasn't even scratched. Ichigo hasn't been given an opportunity to show off yet.

[Shadowbane]

Eh. I hope he was but he finds some way out of it. Plus, I don't like Ichigo. Kyoraku, Shinji (who somehow keeps his personality when all the other characters kinda...become the same) and Hisagi.

Particularly Shinji though. I love that he introduced himself by writing his name backwards. Best part of the story, now that it makes sense.

[Drolyt]

Seriously? I bet you $1,000,000 that Aizen wasn't even scratched. Ichigo hasn't been given an opportunity to show off yet.

I don't doubt he'll get out of it just fine, but I do think something must have went wrong for him; at the very least the captains showed more resistance than he expected. The events were shown from Aizen's perspective, and that means our view of the situation cannot possibly be incorrect. It is however very much possible that the stab wound was only a minor inconvenience; we know that Tousen had a Ressurecion, and that Ichigo in his uber hollow form had instantaneous regeneration, so it is highly likely Aizen can regenerate as well.

[Prime32]

Particularly Shinji though. I love that he introduced himself by writing his name backwards. Best part of the story, now that it makes sense.And on his first appearance he was standing upside-down.

[Oslecamo]

It is however very much possible that the stab wound was only a minor inconvenience; we know that Tousen had a Ressurecion, and that Ichigo in his uber hollow form had instantaneous regeneration, so it is highly likely Aizen can regenerate as well.

This. THIS! IS! BLEACH! Geting your internal organs pierced is annoying at worst.

[Drolyt]

This. THIS! IS! BLEACH! Geting your internal organs pierced is annoying at worst.

Well, that's about 90% of Shonen. In Dragon Ball dying was only a minor inconvenience. Actually, that started happening in Naruto too, but the only two characters shown capable of resurrection had to sacrifice their lives to do it. Since Bleach is pretty high powered even among shonen (if nothing compared to Dragon Ball) it stands to reason that getting stabbed through the heart is anything but deadly. Now if Aizen were chopped in half, that would be shonen for "he's dead".

[Oslecamo]

Well, that's about 90% of Shonen. In Dragon Ball dying was only a minor inconvenience. Actually, that started happening in Naruto too, but the only two characters shown capable of resurrection had to sacrifice their lives to do it. Since Bleach is pretty high powered even among shonen (if nothing compared to Dragon Ball) it stands to reason that getting stabbed through the heart is anything but deadly. Now if Aizen were chopped in half, that would be shonen for "he's dead".

You do realize that in Naruto geting impaled by something kills you, right?

Dragonball can't be used as a scale. It's the extreme of the scale for non-robot shonen (and actualy stronger than most shonen robots, wich is saying a lot).

Even in extra gory stuff like Claymore and Bersek geting something trough your body will leave you in a pretty bad state unless you're a full fledged demon.

So, it would be much more acurate to say that in 10% of shonen geting your organs pierced is a minor incovenience. Bleach, being indeed one of the more high powered shonens out there, falls on that category, but when treating other series, the characters aren't half as resilient.

Heck, last time I checked, Bleach is used as the extreme of the scale for "How much blood a shonen being has"!

[tyckspoon]

You do realize that in Naruto geting impaled by something kills you, right?


Except when it doesn't, which has happened.. what, I think five or so times now? At least two of which were actual impalements and not "Hah, you stabbed my image/I have five hearts/I don't actually need my heart!" situations.

[TheSummoner]

Arrancar #9, Aaroniero - Killed by a sword through the brain.
Arrancar #5, Nnoitora - Despite boasting the strongest skin among the Espada, was careful to avoid taking a hit to the head.
Arrancar #4, Ulquiorra - Unable to regenerate internal organs. Killed when his lower body was destroyed. Although he regenerated his limbs quickly afterwards, the organ loss proved fatal.

Organ loss is more than a "minor" inconvience. Brain and heart loss are instantly fatal and loss of other organs can be fatal if untreated...

These things do not apply to the main character, as he has sustained injuries that would've destroyed his heart more times than I can recall.

[Oslecamo]

Except when it doesn't, which has happened.. what, I think five or so times now? At least two of which were actual impalements and not "Hah, you stabbed my image/I have five hearts/I don't actually need my heart!" situations.

Mind pointing them out? Because I'm not really remembering any, besides the Super Regeneration dudes. The 4th Hokage and Danzo were both super heavy weights and both bited the bullet after being impaled. Naruto has a suprisingly high number of characters who stay dead after being impaled. Only ninjas who specialize in healing jutsus can afford it.


TheSummoner:Nnoitora didn't actualy take a hit to the head so we'll never know. Aaroniero was a wuss.

Ulquiorra got stomped several times in a row before he finally run out of "regeneration juice" or whatever they use to come back from the dead. With all the damage he had taken, he had to drop sooner or later. Even Bersek and Claymore super demons (and Count "You cannot stop me!" Alucard) not to mention the FMA homunculus can just regenerate so much damage before needing some kind of recharge. It's a common trope. They can't regenerate ad infinitum. Beat anybody around enough times, and they stop moving.

[Drolyt]

Arrancar #9, Aaroniero - Killed by a sword through the brain.
Arrancar #5, Nnoitora - Despite boasting the strongest skin among the Espada, was careful to avoid taking a hit to the head.
Arrancar #4, Ulquiorra - Unable to regenerate internal organs. Killed when his lower body was destroyed. Although he regenerated his limbs quickly afterwards, the organ loss proved fatal.

Organ loss is more than a "minor" inconvience. Brain and heart loss are instantly fatal and loss of other organs can be fatal if untreated...

These things do not apply to the main character, as he has sustained injuries that would've destroyed his heart more times than I can recall.

The organ thing was specifically a weakness possessed by Ulquiorra, there is no reason to suppose all Hollows have that weakness. Ulquiorra specifically said that Arrancar give up most of their regeneration abilities for greater defense. That obviously didn't apply to Ichigo's Uber Hollow Form tm, since he regenerated his heart. Also Aizen is far more powerful than any of them, as explained in Gin's speech. At any rate this wouldn't be the first time in Bleach (or Naruto for that matter) that someone survived impalement.

[Dante & Vergil]

Well, it just goes to show that if any one is left unchecked, that you can be screwed. Now it's Gin's turn...
:smallamused:

[TheSummoner]

Mind pointing them out? Because I'm not really remembering any, besides the Super Regeneration dudes. The 4th Hokage and Danzo were both super heavy weights and both bited the bullet after being impaled. Naruto has a suprisingly high number of characters who stay dead after being impaled. Only ninjas who specialize in healing jutsus can afford it.


TheSummoner:Nnoitora didn't actualy take a hit to the head so we'll never know. Aaroniero was a wuss.

Ulquiorra got stomped several times in a row before he finally run out of "regeneration juice" or whatever they use to come back from the dead. With all the damage he had taken, he had to drop sooner or later. Even Bersek and Claymore super demons (and Count "You cannot stop me!" Alucard) not to mention the FMA homunculus can just regenerate so much damage before needing some kind of recharge. It's a common trope. They can't regenerate ad infinitum. Beat anybody around enough times, and they stop moving.

And yet Ulquiorra DIDN'T run out of regeneration ability. His limbs were regenerating right before his death. He had already regrown his right leg by the time Ichigo regained consiousness. He was unable to regenerate organs. Losing his lower body meant losing his stomach, kidneys, all of the organs below a certain point. His heart and brain remained intact so it wasn't an instant death, but it still killed him.

Nnoitora never took a headshot, but he didn't even TRY to dodge Kenpachi's attacks until one was coming. He saw the headshot as the first real threat in the battle... the first thing that COULD do damage to him. Although his death was unrelated to organ loss, its heavily implied that if Kenpachi could've say... cut his head off, it would've killed him.

... and yes, Aaroniero was a wuss compared to the rest, but he still had Rukia outmatched and he still died when a sword went through his brain.

I'm not saying Aizen is a dead man, merely that organ loss is a serious threat and his "oh ****" face means hes been underestimated his opponent and to continue fighting, hes going to have to get serious.

[Oslecamo]

And yet Ulquiorra DIDN'T run out of regeneration ability. His limbs were regenerating right before his death. He had already regrown his right leg by the time Ichigo regained consiousness. He was unable to regenerate organs. Losing his lower body meant losing his stomach, kidneys, all of the organs below a certain point. His heart and brain remained intact so it wasn't an instant death, but it still killed him.

1-He didn't fully regenerate his legs and arms.
2-All organs of the lower body are nonvital in the short term. If his lungs, heart and brain were still fully operational, and assuming he can provide himself an infinite supply of blood, then there's no reason whatsoever why he suddenly drops dead. He should've lasted some hours at least, not some seconds.

The only logical conclusion is that he tried to regenerate his legs and arms first so he could keep fighting. Then he notices he has no more juice to regenerate his guts. His body colapses due to the fact he burned himself out trying to fully regenerate.



Nnoitora never took a headshot, but he didn't even TRY to dodge Kenpachi's attacks until one was coming. He saw the headshot as the first real threat in the battle... the first thing that COULD do damage to him. Although his death was unrelated to organ loss, its heavily implied that if Kenpachi could've say... cut his head off, it would've killed him.

Or perhaps it's the simple fact that while you're headless, you can't see or hear or think properly, making you an easy target for stomping. And meh, heads are always the weak point of super monsters.



... and yes, Aaroniero was a wuss compared to the rest, but he still had Rukia outmatched and he still died when a sword went through his brain.

I'm not saying Aizen is a dead man, merely that organ loss is a serious threat and his "oh ****" face means hes been underestimated his opponent and to continue fighting, hes going to have to get serious.
Not while his head is safe! Even if we assume that choping heads kills the enemy, Aizen's brain still wasn't hit.

[Drolyt]

Okay, what I'm not getting is why does anybody even suppose Aizen lost any organs? All that really happened was that he got stabbed by Kyouraku.

[Oslecamo]

Well, Aizen got stabbed in the torso, and the torso is filled with important arteries and lots of squishy organs.

[afroakuma]

Well, Aizen got stabbed in the torso, and the torso is filled with important arteries and lots of squishy organs.

Not in Bleach; in Bleach it's filled with important GUSHING BLOOD and lots of GUSHING BLOOD. Along with a couple of buttons that trigger SPEWING BLOOD FROM THE MOUTH.

[Drolyt]

Well, Aizen got stabbed in the torso, and the torso is filled with important arteries and lots of squishy organs.

Yeah, but it's entirely possible for a blade to go right through without hitting any organs. I've actually heard of real life cases where a dagger or a bullet managed to go between the bones in the ribcage and miss all of the organs, leaving no permanent injuries (I've also heard of cases where that happened but they died anyways because of blood loss, but that's unlikely to happen in Bleach). Of course that's just luck, there's no reason to suppose Aizen is that lucky. There is however reason to suppose that Bleach simply isn't that realistic and won't even mention the possibility of organ damage.
Edit:

Not in Bleach; in Bleach it's filled with important GUSHING BLOOD and lots of GUSHING BLOOD. Along with a couple of buttons that trigger SPEWING BLOOD FROM THE MOUTH.
Precisely. The only time I remember organs even being mentioned was in the battle with Ulqi, and iirc his entire torso got blown away.

[Prime32]

If a Bleach character got stabbed in the foot they'd cough blood from their mouth. :smalltongue:

[Oslecamo]

Pfftt, that's nothing compared with Klaus, the head buttler of the Sanzenin family!

http://media.onemanga.com/mangas/00000057/00000055/05.jpg
http://media.onemanga.com/mangas/00000057/00000055/06.jpg

[golentan]

Pfftt, that's nothing compared with Klaus, the head buttler of the Sanzenin family!

http://media.onemanga.com/mangas/00000057/00000055/05.jpg
http://media.onemanga.com/mangas/00000057/00000055/06.jpg


Wait, wait, wait.

He made someone hemorrhage massively. By offering them a bribe? Holy...

We had best hope he never teems up with Bill Gates.

[TheSummoner]

Precisely. The only time I remember organs even being mentioned was in the battle with Ulqi, and iirc his entire torso got blown away.

Lower body. Definatly would've left the heart and lungs intact, but still would've taken out his stomach, intestines, kidneys, etc

[13_CBS]

Bleach Chapter 392:




1) It's Aizen. Either it all turned out to be an illusion (so it was almost all in vain aside from whittling Aizen down a little for Ichigo to finish off) so it didn't really count,

[obnoxious sing song voice]I TOLD YOU[/obnoxious sing song voice]

:smalltongue:

[Prime32]

The important part of 392:
http://media.onemanga.com/mangas/00000003/000282872/11.jpg
http://media.onemanga.com/mangas/00000003/000282872/12.jpg

[Drolyt]

Well... seems I was wrong. About at least part of it anyways. I expected what happened in this chapter to happen, although I thought it would happen as soon as Ichigo got there (like the Espada would turn out to not be dead or something). But yeah, that was... yeah. 392 was pretty awesome.

[golentan]

I still say I'm not convinced Aizen is really that awesome. As this proves, there's no actual need for him to be as broken as he is, since he can illusion any foe into believing it. One fingered bankai blocks, taking on a dozen captain class opponents at once at no injury, and more, are all easily explicable with illusion. Heck, there's even no reason we need assume Ichigo is illusion free: He fought Captain Broken before, who he didn't see before the smoke cleared on the attack. I'd give Ichigo a separate illusion to boost my enemy's hope if I were as pointlessly vindictive as he seems to be.

Of course, the one character who could confirm or deny this is conveniently deadish. So...

That was just cruel, though.

[Shadowbane]

Wow, this chapter pissed me off. Like, seriously pissed me off.

[Drolyt]

Wow, this chapter pissed me off. Like, seriously pissed me off.

Care to explain?

[Thrawn183]

Does this count as a kick the dog moment? Man, he really has it in for that girl.

[Drolyt]

Does this count as a kick the dog moment? Man, he really has it in for that girl.

I think he more or less raped, tortured, kicked, punched, defenestrated, and disemboweled the dog, in that order, and then repeated the whole thing. Seriously, what does he have against her? She was ridiculously loyal to him. Of course, Sasuke just did the same thing...

[Obrysii]

Of course, Sasuke just did the same thing...

Both are "developing" their villains by making us hate them all the more. Which just makes us head-smack if Sakura is doing anything but trying to backstab him.

I think the author of Bleach is writing himself in a corner. How can anyone stop such a haxx technique? I mean, without pulling something out of nowhere (which, obviously, will happen).

[Innis Cabal]

He has the end of it written, according to himself. So, we'll see. I don't understand where the RAGE is comming from here. I find it hard to believe so few expected it.

[Fiery Diamond]

Both are "developing" their villains by making us hate them all the more. Which just makes us head-smack if Sakura is doing anything but trying to backstab him.

I think the author of Bleach is writing himself in a corner. How can anyone stop such a haxx technique? I mean, without pulling something out of nowhere (which, obviously, will happen).

She (expletive) well better be trying to backstab him.

Also, that Bleach chapter also made me angry. How on earth are we supposed to explain away "Aizen's thoughts" from Chapter 391? He can't illusion that - it wasn't out loud.

[Drolyt]

She (expletive) well better be trying to backstab him.

Also, that Bleach chapter also made me angry. How on earth are we supposed to explain away "Aizen's thoughts" from Chapter 391? He can't illusion that - it wasn't out loud.

That's what confused me. I kinda sorta saw that this would happen, but I thought that at least the staby part was true because we were seeing it from Aizen's perspective. Apparently Kubo has decided Aizen can use his zanpakuto on the audience. Shadi needs to get to work on that fourth wall.

[Haruspex_Pariah]

I'm beginning to think that the writer gave Aizen a cool power by accident, not realizing that it makes him practically invincible. Hell, maybe the 392 chapters of Bleach are also illusions, played on us!

[Drolyt]

I'm beginning to think that the writer gave Aizen a cool power by accident, not realizing that it makes him practically invincible. Hell, maybe the 392 chapters of Bleach are also illusions, played on us!

I've heard a theory like that, but it was about Naruto and it was Sasuke casting a genjutsu on the audience, thus explaining why he gets so much screen time. But yeah, I don't think Kubo thought through what that kind of power could do. Hell, if I had that power, I'd be ruler of the world by now. Wait, I already am... bwahaha.

Anyways, at least the guy who writes Naruto seems to have a better grasp of how freaking powerful illusions are, but he also allows will saves, and Aizen doesn't. Seriously, there is a reason D&D doesn't let illusions work automatically: they are too powerful. Illusionists are considered some of the best characters in the game with will saves, and that's without even using any cheese. That shadow whatever PRC can make illusions more real than reality. Aizen just ignores reality.

[Haruspex_Pariah]

I've heard a theory like that, but it was about Naruto and it was Sasuke casting a genjutsu on the audience, thus explaining why he gets so much screen time. But yeah, I don't think Kubo thought through what that kind of power could do. Hell, if I had that power, I'd be ruler of the world by now. Wait, I already am... bwahaha.

Anyways, at least the guy who writes Naruto seems to have a better grasp of how freaking powerful illusions are, but he also allows will saves, and Aizen doesn't. Seriously, there is a reason D&D doesn't let illusions work automatically: they are too powerful. Illusionists are considered some of the best characters in the game with will saves, and that's without even using any cheese. That shadow whatever PRC can make illusions more real than reality. Aizen just ignores reality.

With all seriousness, that kind of thing is annoying enough in a game. But in a story, where we depend on what we read/see to enjoy it, illusions are just...highly irritating. Are we wasting our time if a character can simply negate seventeen pages of story development at will?

[Shadowbane]

Care to explain?

I expected this chapter, but that didn't stop it annoying me. It ruined a moment of real awesome

*sniff*

"There was a shadow on the ice!"

It will always remain in my heart.

[Drolyt]

I expected this chapter, but that didn't stop it annoying me. It ruined a moment of real awesome

*sniff*

"There was a shadow on the ice!"

It will always remain in my heart.

Yeah, that was a pretty awesome moment. It kinda sucks that we don't get to see any of the actually cool captains do anything. We still haven't seen the bankais of either Captain Tuberculosis or Captain Grab Ass, or Captain Mom for that matter. How will all that fit into the story when they appear to be at the final confrontation already? I can only guess that since there seems to be quite a bit more that needs to fit into the story (the aforementioned bankais, Ichigo and Uryuu's dad's, etc.) Aizen will win this bout, become the King and all that, and Ichigo and Co. will form a resistance. I know the manga has gone on long enough, but if it turns out this really is the final fight I will be pissed. I mean really ****ing pissed.

[Kasanip]

Hinamori was in the first comic that I read, so I always like her character. She is a very tragic one. :smallfrown: I hope that she gets a happy ending.

Sosuke and Aizen's different points are that Aizen makes one feel helpless, which may be some of the frustration people have with him. Yet, this is a good emotion for the villain to have. Aizen's power is very different than most villains, who rely on strength alone. But it has limits, thanks to Ichigo's presence.


(A different topic, from earlier)
For those of you who responded about Valkyria Chronicles before, I am enjoying the new game, though playing slowly. It has a lot of nice features, and the character stories are fun! It feels a little more like you are making a team, though the school aspect is a little reducing of immersion. The battles are fun to play, and there are plenty of characters from the first game. Maybe they overshadow some of the new ones, I think.

[Drolyt]

Hinamori was in the first comic that I read, so I always like her character. She is a very tragic one. :smallfrown: I hope that she gets a happy ending.

Sosuke and Aizen's different points are that Aizen makes one feel helpless, which may be some of the frustration people have with him. Yet, this is a good emotion for the villain to have. Aizen's power is very different than most villains, who rely on strength alone. But it has limits, thanks to Ichigo's presence.


(A different topic, from earlier)
For those of you who responded about Valkyria Chronicles before, I am enjoying the new game, though playing slowly. It has a lot of nice features, and the character stories are fun! It feels a little more like you are making a team, though the school aspect is a little reducing of immersion. The battles are fun to play, and there are plenty of characters from the first game. Maybe they overshadow some of the new ones, I think.

I just have to point out one thing. Your location says Japan. If this is true, you should know that over in the states Hinamori is something of a scrappy, while to my knowledge this is not true in Japan. To me and many Americans she comes off as sort of... well, overly obedient to the point of idiocy. As for Aizen, he is a very effective villain, but he has traits of the Boring Invincible Villain (tm), and some people don't like that. I for one think it's fine as long as the method that is eventually used to defeat him is realistic and well thought out, rather than a total asspull like many expect it will be.

[Mando Knight]

We still haven't seen the bankais of either Captain Tuberculosis or Captain Grab Ass, or Captain Mom for that matter.

Or Head Captain Gramps.

My question is: did Ichigo see through the illusion, or did he just now realize that he's affected by Kyoka Suigetsu as well?

[Drolyt]

Or Head Captain Gramps.

My question is: did Ichigo see through the illusion, or did he just now realize that he's affected by Kyoka Suigetsu as well?

The way it happened implicitly leads to the former, but we know now that Kubo likes to screw with us, so we can't say for sure. Still, that would just be a huge asspull. I mean the plot point of the past 50 or so chapters is that Ichigo is not under Kyoka Suigetsu, why change that just to piss off the fans? At any rate we have to wait two weeks to find out.

[Mystic Muse]

Well, if Kyoka suigetsu affects all 5 senses then isn't it possible he isn't able to tell them?

If he's affected by it isn't Ichigo screwed? Along with ALL the good guys?

Unless Orihime finds a way to actually turn back time and make it so Aizen never existed or something like that.

[Drolyt]

Well, if Kyoka suigetsu affects all 5 senses then isn't it possible he isn't able to tell them?

If he's affected by it isn't Ichigo screwed? Along with ALL the good guys?

Unless Orihime finds a way to actually turn back time and make it so Aizen never existed or something like that.

Not quite. There is still the Royal Guard, Isshin, whatever Uryuu's dad was called, Kon, that ghost cat from filler, and the rest of Ichigo's group, all presumably unaffected by Kyoka Suigetsu. Also Kyoka doesn't seem to be in constant use (or at least he chooses not use it to its full potential), so it suggests that maybe there are some limitations on what it can do, we just don't know them yet.

Edit: I forgot, Don Kanonji or whatever it was also hasn't seen Aizen's Shikai. And what about Rukia, or Hanataro? Can we really assume that everyone is soul society is under his spell?
Edit #2: Those two kids that live with what's his name used to be captain of the 12th division guy also haven't seen it. Most likely neither have Ichigo's sisters, or Ichigo's other friends at school. Or that Bount dude from filler.
Edit #3: Or that thing from hell that impaled that one hollow. That thing ought to be pretty bad ass.

[Zeful]

Well, if Kyoka suigetsu affects all 5 senses then isn't it possible he isn't able to tell them?

If he's affected by it isn't Ichigo screwed? Along with ALL the good guys?

Unless Orihime finds a way to actually turn back time and make it so Aizen never existed or something like that.

Yeah with complete control over all five senses, he can do whatever he wants. Short of Orihime "rejecting" all of Aizen's powers or Ichigo getting a "hax" power of his own. Aizen's going to win.

[Mystic Muse]

Not quite. There is still the Royal Guard, Isshin, whatever Uryuu's dad was called, Kon, that ghost cat from filler, and the rest of Ichigo's group, all presumably unaffected by Kyoka Suigetsu. Also Kyoka doesn't seem to be in constant use (or at least he chooses not use it to its full potential), so it suggests that maybe there are some limitations on what it can do, we just don't know them yet.

Edit: I forgot, Don Kanonji or whatever it was also hasn't seen Aizen's Shikai. And what about Rukia, or Hanataro? Can we really assume that everyone is soul society is under his spell?
Edit #2: Those two kids that live with what's his name used to be captain of the 12th division guy also haven't seen it. Most likely neither have Ichigo's sisters, or Ichigo's other friends at school. Or that Bount dude from filler.
Edit #3: Or that thing from hell that impaled that one hollow. That thing ought to be pretty bad ass.

Don Kanoji isn't good for anything.
Kon can't deal with a captain.
the kids probably aren't in Aizen's league. hard to tell since he's never fought an even fight)
Filler doesn't count. If it's not in the manga it can't deal with a thing that is.

[Drolyt]

Don Kanoji isn't good for anything.
Kon can't deal with a captain.
the kids probably aren't in Aizen's league. hard to tell since he's never fought an even fight)
Filler doesn't count. If it's not in the manga it can't deal with a thing that is.

I think the cat ghost might of been in one of the omake chapters, but I can't remember. But yeah the bount can't really help.

[Mystic Muse]

I don't remember a cat ghost. However, that doesn't really mean much in my case.

[TheSummoner]

Eh... I was fully expecting Aizen to be up and standing, but... well, the how took me by surprise...

Why would he use Hinamori? Other than making even more of a kick-the-dog moment, its good phychological warfare... particularly against Captain Grumpypants. The angrier Aizen is able to make his opponents, the less effective they'll be against him. Then again, he might not even need that to win...

I suppose its a good thing Soifon didn't take the opportunity to double-stab "Aizen" while "he" was frozen.

[Anteros]

You have to wonder why Ichigo didn't bother to say anything until after Aizen pulled off his plan. Power of the plot I suppose...

[Mystic Muse]

You have to wonder why Ichigo didn't bother to say anything until after Aizen pulled off his plan. Power of the plot I suppose...

If he can control all five senses he could prevent them from hearing Ichigo.

His ability really is a hack.

[Kasanip]

I just have to point out one thing. Your location says Japan. If this is true, you should know that over in the states Hinamori is something of a scrappy, while to my knowledge this is not true in Japan. To me and many Americans she comes off as sort of... well, overly obedient to the point of idiocy. As for Aizen, he is a very effective villain, but he has traits of the Boring Invincible Villain (tm), and some people don't like that. I for one think it's fine as long as the method that is eventually used to defeat him is realistic and well thought out, rather than a total asspull like many expect it will be.

I live in Japan :smallredface:
I do not know what a scrappy is :smallfrown:

She is obedient to her captain because he was a good captain to her. I think Hinamori also liked Captain Aizen. He let her talk freely, and took care of her when she was troubled, and she was dutiful in serving. This is a good relationship, like between a lord and follower, or even a little of a parent and child. How many years was this the life she had? She was happy for that time.
But she was betrayed, and that whole existence shattered. And that illusionist world showed her one of pain and horror. But Hinamori is trying to deal with this, and still held her sword.

Now it is hard to tell, since Aizen uses his shikai, how much is her own Will, or is his hypnosis in this week.
We know Aizen talked to Ichigo, so Aizen could not have always switched with Hinamori.

I like her and hope that she is able to defeat the problems before her. :smallredface:

[Mystic Muse]

Tvtropes to the rescue! http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheScrappy

[KnightDisciple]

I live in Japan :smallredface:
I do not know what a scrappy is :smallfrown:

She is obedient to her captain because he was a good captain to her. I think Hinamori also liked Captain Aizen. He let her talk freely, and took care of her when she was troubled, and she was dutiful in serving. This is a good relationship, like between a lord and follower, or even a little of a parent and child. How many years was this the life she had? She was happy for that time.
But she was betrayed, and that whole existence shattered. And that illusionist world showed her one of pain and horror. But Hinamori is trying to deal with this, and still held her sword.

Now it is hard to tell, since Aizen uses his shikai, how much is her own Will, or is his hypnosis in this week.
We know Aizen talked to Ichigo, so Aizen could not have always switched with Hinamori.

I like her and hope that she is able to defeat the problems before her. :smallredface:

I think we're seeing cultural perspectives take hold here.

In the West, or at least the US, the idea of "lord and follower" has no cultural roots, and isn't really appealing. And that of parent and child doesn't work too well, since she's certainly not a child in age.

We look at her and see someone who seems codependent, almost incapable of thinking or standing for themselves. I mean, her world shatters when she thinks Aizen died. It's hard to tell if there's a bit of romantic undertone there, or if it's purely that "master servant" relationship, but it doesn't really resonate with us (or at least not with me).

It doesn't help that most of the other captains don't have anything close to that kind of subordination displayed by their Vice-Captains. I mean, the VCs are supposed to lead if things go south and a Captain bites it. But she doesn't really act like any sort of leader; just a follower. That might be part of the problem.

Overall, though, to me, she comes across as someone who's been thoroughly manipulated into being completely dependent, emotionally, on this man. This...facade, as it turns out.

A facade hiding a complete monster.

Also, I think it's reasonable to speculate that Hinamori wasn't there the whole time. He may have just made a haxx switch at the last second, right after Soi Fon stabbed him (since we don't see a butterfly on Hinamori).

Or maybe Ichigo was trying to warn them. But the hypnosis means they didn't hear him.

Which just further shows how stupid broken this sword's power likely is.

[TheSummoner]

Unlikely since Ichigo called out to them for stabbing her, but we need to consider the possibility that what we're seeing now is an illusion...

Before 392 came out, a good number of us assumed it was real since it seemed to be from Aizen's perspective. Now, it seems many are repeating that mistake.

[chiasaur11]

Wait. 5 senses?

A simple solution: Sharks. Predators. And Xenomorphs.

All at once. They all have non standard senses. They all kill things good.

[KnightDisciple]

Unlikely since Ichigo called out to them for stabbing her, but we need to consider the possibility that what we're seeing now is an illusion...

Before 392 came out, a good number of us assumed it was real since it seemed to be from Aizen's perspective. Now, it seems many are repeating that mistake.

He called out after she got stabbed.

The substitution could have happened right after Soi Fon stabbed Aizen. Or maybe even before, but that seems less likely.

[Kasanip]

I think we're seeing cultural perspectives take hold here.

In the West, or at least the US, the idea of "lord and follower" has no cultural roots, and isn't really appealing. And that of parent and child doesn't work too well, since she's certainly not a child in age.

We look at her and see someone who seems codependent, almost incapable of thinking or standing for themselves. I mean, her world shatters when she thinks Aizen died. It's hard to tell if there's a bit of romantic undertone there, or if it's purely that "master servant" relationship, but it doesn't really resonate with us (or at least not with me).

It doesn't help that most of the other captains don't have anything close to that kind of subordination displayed by their Vice-Captains. I mean, the VCs are supposed to lead if things go south and a Captain bites it. But she doesn't really act like any sort of leader; just a follower. That might be part of the problem.

Overall, though, to me, she comes across as someone who's been thoroughly manipulated into being completely dependent, emotionally, on this man. This...facade, as it turns out.

A facade hiding a complete monster.

Also, I think it's reasonable to speculate that Hinamori wasn't there the whole time. He may have just made a haxx switch at the last second, right after Soi Fon stabbed him (since we don't see a butterfly on Hinamori).

Or maybe Ichigo was trying to warn them. But the hypnosis means they didn't hear him.

Which just further shows how stupid broken this sword's power likely is.

The idea of a "Lord and Follower" relationship is a little romantic now... A lot of dramas and samurai movies show this importance, and some explore this in romance too.
I think in the west the idea of loyalty is held in importance too. The kind of character who sacrifices for his friends is one I think everyone holds dearly. It is not a good example maybe, but between a boyfriend and girlfriend...If one is honest and loyal, but betrayed, it is hurtful.
Though it is not like that, I think Hinamori did have warm feelings for Captain Aizen... and how long had she served with him? Many years.
Maybe she is seen as a weak character, but it is not as if she was just serving for 1 year or 2. She was recovering from his death when he appeared again with a bigger betrayal.

It is true Hinamori is a little naive, but she is portrayed as being younger and more idealistic. She is one of the shinigami who represents goodness. And it is part of her character's innocence...which makes it sad and hurtful she is betrayed. Aizen manipulated everyone and betrayed them all - his friends. But the character we see this betrayal's effects on is Hinamori the most.

You are right I think. She has been completely dependent with emotions on Aizen...that is why Aizen is such a villain.
But it is why when Hinamori showed up to help Matsumoto, I was happy to see her recovering and healing. I hope she will be okay. :smallfrown:

[Tavar]

Wait, isn't it clearly stated by Azien in one of the chapters that he Mindraped her and blond dude, which is why they were acting strangely. Specifically, he mindraped her to be dependent on him. Or at least, that's what I took from the discussions.

[golentan]

I like Hinamori. I myself have Yamato Nadeshiko traits, so I tend to sympathize with Hinamori's emotional rollercoaster and associated actions.

The big problem with Hinamori as I see it, is that she was more loyal to Aizen then the organization. That normally wouldn't be a problem, but it meant that she snapped very, very hard when he went, and so cut off the entire head of the command, attempting to do the same to another unit.

She's got fire and dedication, but she's not sure who to trust anymore. And Aizen continues to see her (rightfully so) as an extremely useful psychological warfare tool. Killing her (or making the attempt) simultaneously ruins the morale of a large number of his enemies while establishing his ruthlessness to future subjects, negating the need to keep pounding the dog when the war is over.

I still think his treatment of followers is one of the most dastardly things I've ever encountered (and I saw Genghis' push through persia). And I think Hinamori needs to stop being so conflicted and smash some faces in.

[TheSummoner]

I hope she will be okay. :smallfrown:

Take a deep breath and repeat after me.

"Nobody ever dies in Bleach." :smallwink:

[Mystic Muse]

Take a deep breath and repeat after me.

"Nobody who's a goodguy ever dies in Bleach." :smallwink:

fixed it for you. Some badguys have died.

one got dragged to hell.

[Attilargh]

I don't understand where the RAGE is comming from here. I find it hard to believe so few expected it.
Personally, it wasn't that I didn't expect this, I was just for once hoping for something more than yet another episode of Sousuke Aizen Is a Bad Guy with Hax Powers: The Abridged Series.

[Drolyt]

Personally, it wasn't that I didn't expect this, I was just for once hoping for something more than yet another episode of Sousuke Aizen Is a Bad Guy with Hax Powers: The Abridged Series.

I'm afraid I wouldn't call Bleach abridged...

[Mystic Muse]

I'm afraid I wouldn't call Bleach abridged...

the comment is in reference to shows like this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ox1JUyYYs5c

the abridged series are joke versions of the show.

[Drolyt]

the comment is in reference to shows like this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ox1JUyYYs5c

the abridged series are joke versions of the show.

I understood the reference. Originally LittleKuriboh came up with the name Yu-Gi-Oh: The Abridged Series because he shortened each episode to less than a third of the actual time, that being more or less the meaning of abridged. Bleach however is a huge freaking long runner, so calling it abridged is kind of ironic (although Yu-Gi-Oh was also a freaking long runner...)

[El_Frenchie]

So all that was just Kubo trolling us.

Shinji asks: "When did you start using K. Suigetsu?" Aizen replies: "When did you think I -wasn't-?" Meaning whenever it was in use, Ichigo couldn't figure out there was something out of place? Whenever Aizen made the switch, Ichigo had a terrible reaction time. As illustrated here:

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc195/Excorsism/1265855291321.jpg?t=1265857788

[Innis Cabal]

I understood the reference. Originally LittleKuriboh came up with the name Yu-Gi-Oh: The Abridged Series because he shortened each episode to less than a third of the actual time, that being more or less the meaning of abridged. Bleach however is a huge freaking long runner, so calling it abridged is kind of ironic (although Yu-Gi-Oh was also a freaking long runner...)

You just explined what the post in reference meant. This chapter was just all of "OMG AIZAN IS TEH HAX" in 18 pages.

[Prime32]

So all that was just Kubo trolling us.

Shinji asks: "When did you start using K. Suigetsu?" Aizen replies: "When did you think I -wasn't-?" Meaning whenever it was in use, Ichigo couldn't figure out there was something out of place? Whenever Aizen made the switch, Ichigo had a terrible reaction time. As illustrated here:

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc195/Excorsism/1265855291321.jpg?t=1265857788
Or, as pointed out, Aizen could just manipulate their senses so they couldn't hear Ichigo until it was too late.

[Drolyt]

Or, as pointed out, Aizen could just manipulate their senses so they can't hear Ichigo.

I'm fine with either "Ichigo is stupid" or else Aizen arranged it so up until the point the white haired pretty boy stabbed the scrappy what they were doing made sense to Ichigo for some strange reason. Another thing is that the last few comics presumably only took up a few seconds. Ichigo might have been so confused trying to figure out what the hell the captains were doing that he just couldn't spit it out in time.

[KnightDisciple]

I'm fine with either "Ichigo is stupid" or else Aizen arranged it so up until the point the white haired pretty boy stabbed the scrappy what they were doing made sense to Ichigo for some strange reason. Another thing is that the last few comics presumably only took up a few seconds. Ichigo might have been so confused trying to figure out what the hell the captains were doing that he just couldn't spit it out in time.

I don't see what's wrong with assuming several layers to the deception here. It fits with Aizen.

Layer 1: He was actually there until almost the end; perhaps until the ice hit, or shortly before.

Layer 2: Any warning from Ichigo is blocked out until he's got everything set up perfectly.

Layer 3: It all happened very quickly, making it hard for Ichigo to warn them anyways. Considering how few panels we go from "Aizen watching Soi Fon approach" to "Aizen having been supposedly stabbed several times", it's not a stretch.

I don't see where "Ichigo is stupid" has to fit in any of this. Besides, he's 16, going up against a due probably 10 times that old. It's pretty much a given he'll be outwitted at least a little.

[Drolyt]

I don't see what's wrong with assuming several layers to the deception here. It fits with Aizen.

Layer 1: He was actually there until almost the end; perhaps until the ice hit, or shortly before.

Layer 2: Any warning from Ichigo is blocked out until he's got everything set up perfectly.

Layer 3: It all happened very quickly, making it hard for Ichigo to warn them anyways. Considering how few panels we go from "Aizen watching Soi Fon approach" to "Aizen having been supposedly stabbed several times", it's not a stretch.

I don't see where "Ichigo is stupid" has to fit in any of this. Besides, he's 16, going up against a due probably 10 times that old. It's pretty much a given he'll be outwitted at least a little.

Ichigo is stupid doesn't have to fit into any of it as you have pointed out. Nevertheless it is an accepted fact of the Bleachverse and is a good place to start your analysis. I think Aizen probably did the switch rather late in the combat, otherwise Ichigo should have warned them. I also think it all happened rather fast so that Ichigo couldn't do anything about it.

[SurlySeraph]

Wait. 5 senses?

A simple solution: Sharks. Predators. And Xenomorphs.

All at once. They all have non standard senses. They all kill things good.

If Bleach ends with Aizen being tricked into falling into a shark pool, I will be very happy.

[Oslecamo]

If Bleach ends with Aizen being tricked into falling into a shark pool, I will be very happy.

Best. Ending. For a silly shonen manga. EVAR!

Ok, I lie.

The best ending would be the other captain who still hasn't unlocked his bankai to apear and start flinging sharks at Aizen untill he drops dead.

[Drolyt]

Best. Ending. For a silly shonen manga. EVAR!

Ok, I lie.

The best ending would be the other captain who still hasn't unlocked his bankai to apear and start flinging sharks at Aizen untill he drops dead.

You mean Kenpachi? That would be an awesome bankai. "Sorry Aizen, you just got eaten by an army of sharks."

[Tavar]

You mean Kenpachi? That would be an awesome bankai. "Sorry Aizen, you just got eaten by an army of sharks."

Nonono. Kenpachi is obviously Yachiru Kusajishi bankai.

[Oslecamo]

Nonono. Kenpachi is obviously Yachiru Kusajishi bankai.

And how exactly that prevents Kenpachi from having his own bankai?:smallamused:

[Drolyt]

And how exactly that prevents Kenpachi from having his own bankai?:smallamused:

Wait, if Kenpachi is Yachiru's bankai, then perhaps Kenpachi's bankai is also a person? And maybe that person has a bankai that is a person that has a bankai that is a person that has a bankai that is a person that has a bankai that is a person that has a bankai that is a person that has a bankai that is a person that has a bankai that is a person that has a bankai that is a person that has a bankai that is a person that has a bankai that is a person that has a bankai that is a person that has a bankai that is a person that has a bankai that is a person that has a bankai that is a person that has a bankai that is a person that has a bankai that shoots sharks.