The First Law - Show him the intruments, Practical Frost

[Weimann]

So, I just read The First Law series by Joe Abercrombie, and uh... I can only say wow. Awesome is such an overused word, but by any definition of it, this guy must qualify. I feel I need to express my opinions on it, somehow, so here I go.

From here on is spoiler country.

Short intro.
The First Law consists of 3 books - The Blade Itself, Before They Are Hanged and Last Argument of Kings. They follow the trials and tribulations of Logen Ninefingers (a warweary northman), Jezal dan Luthar (an utterly spoiled brat of an officer) and Sand dan Glokta (mutilated and disillutioned war "hero" now working as Inquisitor). Throught the books we get to follow them and others as they face and deal with the strange twistes of fate... and the even stranger machinations of man.

Opinons on the books.
So, where to begin... why not from the start? The books have a style that make them, if not unique, at least very different to "normal" fantasy novels. I can sense a touch of George R.R. Martin's gritty and uncompromising realism in this series; this isn't a world ruled by notions of "good" or "evil". It is most definately ruled by men.

Therefore, it sucks. There is no Middle Earth here. There is no place where things are Good and True, which we must fight to preserve from the forces fo Evil. Everywhere, you see the workings of men, the ambitions, the greed, the lust for power, fortune and fame. Still, it's subtly and well handled, like most things in the series.

I personally felt that the rendition of the world was an honest one. Abercrombie didn't strive to put as much suffering and treachery as possible in it; I think he just made a system, figured out the consequences of it, and wrote what he thought would be realistic to expect. Unfortunately, he might come closer to the mark than many (myself included) like to believe.

Opinions on characters.
The characters are by no means heroes. They are hefted with flaws that only grow heavier and heaver as time passes. Let me state right here that the characters, for me, was one of the great joys of reading this book. Abercrombie handles his creations masterfully, and there's not one moment where I find a character's action hard to rationalize.

That is another strength of the books (and something I personally didn't like with, for example, Tolkien). Even in times of great battles and worldchanging moments, there's always the focus on the characters. You never leave them, you get to follow them through everything. I felt like the fate of the world, as such, was of secondary importance compared to the fate of the people in it, and mostly served as a tapestry on which to project the particular opinion, emotion or action of those we follow. Which is, good, because after all, it's the characters we care about.

The end, and my own ranting on stuff.
The ending. Oh my God, the ending. I actually didn't understand the series was a trilogy at first, and it was only after upon reading the very last pages that it struck me: "Wait... this is it. This is an epilogue." Shortly after: "Does it really END like this?!"

Let me list the state of the characters as we leave them. They can be summarized as: It Got Worse (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ItGotWorse).

Logen: Jumped out a window after being stabbed in the back by a longtime band member over a throne that both of them agrees should not exist, falling into a raging river, pulled down into the darkness.

Jezal: Made puppet-king under Bayaz rule, married to a queen that hates him, his real love Ardee married instead to a person he hates the guts of.

Terez: Married to a bastard king she despises, and forced by Glokta to produce him heirs despite her being lesbian.

Glokta: Possibly the only one I'd say got an upswing; married to Ardee, made Arch Lector by Bayaz and answers completely and utterly under him.

Ferro: Breaking the First Law (or at least being in close proximity to Bayaz as he did), she became more demonic and ran off to get her Revenge(tm), a concept that has through the book been proven a very futile and unsatisfying thing.

Collem West: Survived Ladisla's charge, the walk through the North, the following battles and the charge to save Adua, leading them all to victory, only to succumb to the background radiation of Bayaz's great spell.

The band of northmen: Dead, with the exception for the Dogman, who is stranded in Adua on the behalf of the Logen the King, who just jumped into a river.

Bayaz: Leaves Adua to persue his own power dreams, his Revenge(tm) against Kahlul or for saving the world. It really looks much the same, from slightly different veiwpoints. All the while, he leaves the Union under his absolute command, through threats, debts to Valint and Balk and the watchful eye of Arch Lector Glokta. And he cares not one whit for it.

And THAT IS THE END! The resolution! The fat lady has sung!

Honestly, it's refreshing to see an author that doesn't subscribe to the "everything must be sugarsweet at the end" style of writing (myself, I'd be WAY to chicken to put my characters through all that :S). It certainly makes the book memorable.

Still, I can't help but look at the lessons taught.

Logen asked himself, can a man change? It seems that men cannot change. It was futile to try.

Glokta asked himself, why do I do this? He never came to an answer, but in the very last page, he formulates the words "for my own amusement" in relation to torturing Sult. I really think it's not that far from the truth.

Bayaz proves that power makes righteous and that money can buy everything.

Which I'm not saying is wrong, by all means, but it's still rather unconventional teachings.

Well, there we go. That felt good writing ^^ Have you read them too? What's your opinion?

[Satyr]

There are no many fantasy novels I can take entirely serious. I don't read that many fantasy - exactly for this reason - but I found that most of these novels were not written for a mature audience, cling to childish notions of a black and white world view (which I neither share nor find appaling at all) or are just written badly often bloated with unnesseacry frills and at the same time too simple in its overall structure. Yes, I know that some people consider it a bonus to have book that is simple and easy to read, but I found that a certain complexity of thought require an equal complexity of language, and most simple text are therefore just not deep enough (there are a few exceptions, certainly, but it needs much talent to make this).

There are few exceptions though. There is George Martin, certainly, but truly mature fantasy literature is unfortunately quite rare.
But Abercrombie can pull it off. I really liked the books, I liked the characters (I didn't found any one sympathetic, but they are believable and plausible and complex enough to keep my interest and that is more important for me). There are too few novels like this.

Anyway, the spinoff novel Best Served Cold is probably even better than the original trilogy. Other books I liked similarly well are the Locke Lamora books, and the Steel Remains by Richard Morgan.

[Lost Demiurge]

I read'em. Good books, and I agree with your assessment... The man has a gift for characters, some types more than others.

Lords, it's worth it just to read Glokta's chapters. THAT take on things was pretty much damn near unique in today's modern fantasy.

[Weimann]

Glokta was definately wonderfully written, I agree. My favourite characters were him and Logen, they were the ones who felt most like main characters for me.

I must say that I sympathised with Logen most of all, as well, at least in the beginning, when I didn't quite grasp just how savage he became in battle.

[mallorean_thug]

A response to the OP on the ending:
Sure the ending doesn't feel quite like a typical ending, but its because, as you said, Abercrombie likes to focus on the characters. And while the ending doesn't do too much as far as ending any kind of evil invasion or political strife, it does perfectly conclude all of the character arcs with an almost fearful symmetry.

Everybody gets exactly what they deserve, except for maybe Collem West(who got the short end of the karma stick since he was probably the most sympathetic character and somebody had to drive home how bad radiation tornadoes are). Logen ends up in exactly the same situation we met him in, something I was almost expecting as soon as I realized that he got the last chapter of the series as well as the first. Jezal and Logen both get what they deserve and want while also driving home their world's rather bleak reality of how people obtain power. And Ferro and Bayaz both emerge from the end game still much the same as they started except amplified by the power of the Seed.

And as far as a lesson, it isn't that men don't change, its that unless the situations that make people who they are change, character development won't last as the world pushes back to the status quo. Its not that Logen couldn't change, he could and did during the course of the second book, its just that society that made him who he was was still waiting when he returned and he couldn't change that. Glokta ends in a good position because he recognizes and uses this, knowing what is expected of a crippled torturer and fulfilling people's expectations. He tortures people because society expects him to torture people. And Bayaz ends up on top because he knows what society expects of magi, and how much money really matters.

Or at least thats how I saw the way it ended.

[Dienekes]

Ahh loved this series, especially the last two books.

Between watching Glokta work his sadism, Logen be the best badass I've read in awhile, and just getting the glimpses into the mind of Bayaz meant I couldn't put the series down once I started (and bought the third book the instant it came out, by the by the quality and speed Abercrombie wrote these at is amazing, hell I'm still waiting for book 5 of ASOIAF)

[Smiling Knight]

Best Served Cold kicks just as much, if not more, posterior. Pick it up asap.

[Weimann]

A response to the OP on the ending:
Sure the ending doesn't feel quite like a typical ending, but its because, as you said, Abercrombie likes to focus on the characters. And while the ending doesn't do too much as far as ending any kind of evil invasion or political strife, it does perfectly conclude all of the character arcs with an almost fearful symmetry.

Everybody gets exactly what they deserve, except for maybe Collem West(who got the short end of the karma stick since he was probably the most sympathetic character and somebody had to drive home how bad radiation tornadoes are). Logen ends up in exactly the same situation we met him in, something I was almost expecting as soon as I realized that he got the last chapter of the series as well as the first. Jezal and Logen both get what they deserve and want while also driving home their world's rather bleak reality of how people obtain power. And Ferro and Bayaz both emerge from the end game still much the same as they started except amplified by the power of the Seed.

And as far as a lesson, it isn't that men don't change, its that unless the situations that make people who they are change, character development won't last as the world pushes back to the status quo. Its not that Logen couldn't change, he could and did during the course of the second book, its just that society that made him who he was was still waiting when he returned and he couldn't change that. Glokta ends in a good position because he recognizes and uses this, knowing what is expected of a crippled torturer and fulfilling people's expectations. He tortures people because society expects him to torture people. And Bayaz ends up on top because he knows what society expects of magi, and how much money really matters.

Or at least thats how I saw the way it ended.Hm, you are probably right about the world forcing people to behave in a certain way, and that people have a hard time forging their own fate without also changing their external conditions.

I don't quite agree that everyone "got what they deserved" however. I do think Jezal got what came to him; a hard smack in the face with what royalty really is like. Terez, however, was an innocent victim. It felt like she was added for the evulz alone.

Glokta, I feel, didn't deserve Ardee, but I'm still happy for him (and to some extent for her; I doubt you can gind a more devoted husband, seeing as literally no one else will look at him).

Logen, though. He really tried to change his direction. He had enough of killing, had enough of war. He wanted to be a better man. I don't feel he "deserved" to drown in a coup (particularly not one by Black Dow, someone arguably equal to Logen in kill stats and not even pretending to repent).


Best Served Cold kicks just as much, if not more, posterior. Pick it up asap.

I will, as soon as it gets released in pocket ^^ Or I'll just borrow it at the library :P

[Satyr]

Hm, you are probably right about the world forcing people to behave in a certain way, and that people have a hard time forging their own fate without also changing their external conditions.

I don't quite agree that everyone "got what they deserved" however. I do think Jezal got what came to him; a hard smack in the face with what royalty really is like. Terez, however, was an innocent victim. It felt like she was added for the evulz alone.

Glokta, I feel, didn't deserve Ardee, but I'm still happy for him (and to some extent for her; I doubt you can gind a more devoted husband, seeing as literally no one else will look at him).

Logen, though. He really tried to change his direction. He had enough of killing, had enough of war. He wanted to be a better man. I don't feel he "deserved" to drown in a coup (particularly not one by Black Dow, someone arguably equal to Logen in kill stats and not even pretending to repent).

Interesting interpretation, but I would not necessarily share it.


Jezal and Terez certainly deserve each other.

Glotka and Ardee is a pefect match for both of them, because they complement each other so well. After the marriage, Glotka has someone he can rlate to and trust, which might somewhat take the edge from his bitterness. Ardee gains a bit of independency, because she is suddenly not the plaything of the men in her life, and she is economically secured. It is not like Glotka expects anything degrading from her. The story of the two is probably not exactly a romance of great inspiration, but it has its heartwarming little moments.

And Logen is not worse than Dow, but a lot less honest about it. They are both merciless slayers, but Black Dow is honest bout it. He never claims to be anything but a cruel little bastard. Logen is a hyppocrite with a shizophrenic split personality who invented his alter ego of the Bloody Nine to not cope with the fact that he is as much a monster as Dow, and that he has done much worse. The Bloody Nine is Logen's versin of "The Devil Made Me Do It".

[Dienekes]

Interesting interpretation, but I would not necessarily share it.


Jezal and Terez certainly deserve each other.

Glotka and Ardee is a pefect match for both of them, because they complement each other so well. After the marriage, Glotka has someone he can rlate to and trust, which might somewhat take the edge from his bitterness. Ardee gains a bit of independency, because she is suddenly not the plaything of the men in her life, and she is economically secured. It is not like Glotka expects anything degrading from her. The story of the two is probably not exactly a romance of great inspiration, but it has its heartwarming little moments.

And Logen is not worse than Dow, but a lot less honest about it. They are both merciless slayers, but Black Dow is honest bout it. He never claims to be anything but a cruel little bastard. Logen is a hyppocrite with a shizophrenic split personality who invented his alter ego of the Bloody Nine to not cope with the fact that he is as much a monster as Dow, and that he has done much worse. The Bloody Nine is Logen's versin of "The Devil Made Me Do It".


I'd agree on just about every aspect except Logan. Simply because I saw the lack of control Logan had shown over the Bloody Nine to indicate some sort of disorder. The way the book made it seem was that originally Logen basked in his split personality to the point that even when he wasn't going berserk he was pushing Bethod to keep going. This doesn't seem to show that he somehow invented the Bloody Nine to not cope since he didn't really care. By the time we see him he has moved on from his younger more violent main personality and at least shows remorse for his earlier actions. I don't remember him ever really hiding what he was, merely being ashamed of it. He did however delude himself by villainizing Bethod for all his wrongs. However since most people I know do this in some form I try not to judge him by that but by how he acts after. Generally he seems to show remorse and try to atone for his previous actions and put a stop to the evil he admits he helped create.

However, no matter how you slice it. I cannot see Bayaz deserving his ending. It was awesome, but he didn't deserve it.

[Weimann]

Interesting interpretation, but I would not necessarily share it.


Jezal and Terez certainly deserve each other.

Glotka and Ardee is a pefect match for both of them, because they complement each other so well. After the marriage, Glotka has someone he can rlate to and trust, which might somewhat take the edge from his bitterness. Ardee gains a bit of independency, because she is suddenly not the plaything of the men in her life, and she is economically secured. It is not like Glotka expects anything degrading from her. The story of the two is probably not exactly a romance of great inspiration, but it has its heartwarming little moments.

And Logen is not worse than Dow, but a lot less honest about it. They are both merciless slayers, but Black Dow is honest bout it. He never claims to be anything but a cruel little bastard. Logen is a hyppocrite with a shizophrenic split personality who invented his alter ego of the Bloody Nine to not cope with the fact that he is as much a monster as Dow, and that he has done much worse. The Bloody Nine is Logen's versin of "The Devil Made Me Do It".
Jezal and Terez might have deserved each other, in a fashion, but I feel Terez fate could have been slightly better motivated. It felt pity for her, while Jezal only evoked a sense of "well, it's a shame, but that's how it goes."

I quite agree that Ardee and Glokta makes a good couple, but I can't say he deserves her, at least not compared to the other people and their love interests. Jezal really loved Ardee, and he did little worse than being an uppity brat, which he got better from. Glokta has ruined the lives of several thousand people, many of which he surely knew for a fact were innocent, and HE gets the girl, the promotion and the political power? I don't see how he deserves that.

And Logen. You seem to say that both Logen and Black Dow are equally guilty massmurderes, but that Black Dow has the moral high ground because he embraces it. I don't agree to that. Both Logen and Black Dow has killed uncountable numbers, that's true. Both of them has also recognizes this; they freely admit that they are bad men. But Logen is interested in changing that. He doesn't want more of it. Dow, on the other hand... is not. I fail to see how that makes him less of a bastard than Logen.

I'd agree on just about every aspect except Logan. Simply because I saw the lack of control Logan had shown over the Bloody Nine to indicate some sort of disorder. The way the book made it seem was that originally Logen basked in his split personality to the point that even when he wasn't going berserk he was pushing Bethod to keep going. This doesn't seem to show that he somehow invented the Bloody Nine to not cope since he didn't really care. By the time we see him he has moved on from his younger more violent main personality and at least shows remorse for his earlier actions. I don't remember him ever really hiding what he was, merely being ashamed of it. He did however delude himself by villainizing Bethod for all his wrongs. However since most people I know do this in some form I try not to judge him by that but by how he acts after. Generally he seems to show remorse and try to atone for his previous actions and put a stop to the evil he admits he helped create.

However, no matter how you slice it. I cannot see Bayaz deserving his ending. It was awesome, but he didn't deserve it.
Bayaz is an excellent villain in that you really can't properly hate him. He does what he does for the good of the world, very clearly; it's just that "the world" very seldom seem to equal "the people in it" and more often "the stuff I'm interested in that happens to also be bloody important".

But no, Bayaz didn't deserve his ending. I'm fully with you there.

[Smiling Knight]

Whether or not Bayaz is doing what he is doing for the "good of the world" remains to be seen. I would not be surprised if he actually did kill Juvens...

[Armoury99]

I bought Best Served Cold recently, on the grounds that it was a stand-alone novel rather than a trilogy (just in case I didn't like it). It is indeed fantastic - mature, realistic, brutal (but never gratuitous), funny... look its just great, go buy it if you haven't, and if you have - go read it again! :smallsmile:

Needless to say the First Law trilogy is on my shopping list