PDA

View Full Version : [4e] Balancing encounters for three PCs



Aerodynamik
2010-02-07, 03:27 PM
I run a fourth edition campaign each week with a party of three characters.

I really have trouble challenging my players very much. It seems that if I use monsters to fit the recommended experience budget for four players, it's not enough, but it also seems like the experience budget for five players is too much. I usually try to balance the monster's roles, but it's pretty hard to do that when you're scaling the encounter for three players. Also, the party's Dwarven Fighter is nearly unstoppable.

Can anyone give me some tips for building encounters that will challenge the players? Is there some way to make the fighter less effective in combat? Could I somehow lure him away from the rest of the battle?

Swordgleam
2010-02-07, 03:35 PM
Bog the fighter down with melee minions, and have the real damage-dealers be ranged characters. If possible, put the ranged enemies in terrain areas that the fighter has trouble getting to, so either your ranged PCs need to take them out, or someone whose character is good at climbing/swimming/teleporting/etc needs to sneak up on them.

It really depends on your party and their tactics. Obviously just the xp guidelines aren't working for you, so focus more on what kinds of powers the PCs use, and how to make those less crippling to your baddies. What are the other characters in the party, besides th fighter?

Aerodynamik
2010-02-07, 03:41 PM
I have tiefling warlord, who's main tactic is to charge into battle using a vanguard longsword to boost damage, and a shifter ranger who uses bows. She uses powers that allow her to make multiple attacks, so it makes it hard to do effective minions.

TheOOB
2010-02-07, 03:43 PM
Is there some way to make the fighter less effective in combat? Could I somehow lure him away from the rest of the battle?

Just to start, you should really be careful with things like that. What can start as wanting to give the spotlight to other players can end in one player feeling screwed over if your not careful. Playing an effective character is not a crime, and the whole group suffers if you weaken or remove a character.

Anyways, I will agree that it is hard to make good encounters for so few PCs. The problem is that most encounters need a good backbone of soldiers and/or brutes in addition to the other, more interesting monsters to keep things going well. In small groups you are often forced to either A)Forgo to the soldiers and brutes which makes the enemies die to quickly, or B)Only use soldiers or brutes which makes the battle less interesting and removes their cool tricks. I find that one of the best options is to use traps and terrain features to make the battle more interesting/dangerous, without overwhelming the party. A two space wide bridge with two brutes and a powerful spellcaster is a balanced encounter for the party, but one that would be more difficult than the same monsters in an open field(as the brutes can easily blockade the bridge, preventing flanking maneuvers while the spellcaster attacks from safety. Using larger numbers of lower level mobs can also help sometimes, though you don't want to use that trick every battle.

Also to note, you can make wicked dangerous encounters for your party and expect them to succeed, just do them right after an extended rest and give them the expectation that they will get another before too long. When players can unleash the full force of their dailys, they are much more powerful.

Honestly though, I personally(and this is only personal opinion), wouldn't play D&D 4e with only 3 players. The game is designed for 5 players, and encounter diversity takes a nasty hit even at 4 players, it's really difficult at three or less players. Do note that this opinion is made in part do to the fact that I have a dozen or so gaming system books, and a group who is willing to try them, if D&D is all you either have/want to play, then you can make it work.

Anyways, good luck.

flyingchicken
2010-02-07, 03:45 PM
Look for awesome synergies and non-encounter-level-raising terrain problems. PCs against a bunch of goblins with slings? Psh, easy. PCs against a bunch of goblins with slings on top of a 20-foot mesa with solid, but possibly climbable walls? Yeeesss.

Altima
2010-02-07, 03:51 PM
You could always use movement-reducing monster attacks. Or lots of difficult terrain. Then, perhaps, populate an encounter with a heavy number of ranged characters (who go for the archer first). Throw in some ranged burst powers if your PCs decide to huddle together with the archer.

If the xp management for certain levels is too much, simply reduce it.

Swordgleam
2010-02-07, 03:56 PM
She uses powers that allow her to make multiple attacks, so it makes it hard to do effective minions.

What (relative) level minions are you using? Minions might go down after one hit, but that hit shouldn't be guaranteed. I've had a few fights where minions were serious threats, because the party couldn't manage to hit them. Try throwing in a few minions with higher defenses now and then.

Finding encounters where the fighter shines is easy enough - keep doing what you're doing. Making the ranger shine shouldn't be too hard - just have some high-HP or high-AC brutes on the ground to keep the melee types busy, and some ranged enemies on difficult terrain so the ranger can save the day. For the warlord, it's going to be tricky, since it sounds like he's trying to do the same thing as the fighter.

Aerodynamik
2010-02-07, 03:59 PM
Thanks a lot to everyone who posted with something that they thought would help.

I'm coming up with the climactic encounter of the adventure as we speak. My plan is that the PCs are ambushed from all sides by a few of minions, a brute and a controller. The minions have an attack that goes off when they die, ensuring that all players take a little bit of the damage. Between the controller and the brute, the fighter should be kept occupied. This would leave the other players to battle with the controller, but still give the fighter something to do when battling the brute. What do you guys think?

Swordgleam
2010-02-07, 04:17 PM
Sounds like fun. Throw in a couple terrain features or traps, and you're golden. And make sure you have some contingency plans in case the fight starts looking too easy. For example, a few more minions show up each round, etc.

flyingchicken
2010-02-07, 04:23 PM
Thanks a lot to everyone who posted with something that they thought would help.

I'm coming up with the climactic encounter of the adventure as we speak. My plan is that the PCs are ambushed from all sides by a few of minions, a brute and a controller. The minions have an attack that goes off when they die, ensuring that all players take a little bit of the damage. Between the controller and the brute, the fighter should be kept occupied. This would leave the other players to battle with the controller, but still give the fighter something to do when battling the brute. What do you guys think?I don't suggest you make it climactic just yet; use it as a gauge to see if your difficulty-upping is working. Also, I direct you to article (http://greywulf.net/2010/01/how-to-survive-as-a-1st-level-character/); the first link there is for the previous article, "How to Kill a 1st Level Character," but it's a pretty neat read at any level for widening your creative horizon.

On the scenario itself, it's too monster-centric without any mention of how the environs are. As for the minions, don't forget Aid Another gives a +2 bonus (which means stackable AFAIK) for allies 50% of the time; sometimes this is is better than trying to attack that's likely to miss, especially if the Brute is there to understand the cue.

But don't listen to me, my in-play DMing experience is limited to say the least. I'm just regurgitating what I've read over time.

Gralamin
2010-02-07, 04:54 PM
The easiest way for making a more difficult encounter is to make it an encounter of level +1 or level +2. This gives you more XP to play around with, without over doing it. An encounter of party level will usually not be a great challenge.

kieza
2010-02-07, 08:42 PM
I think the problem is that equal level encounters aren't supposed to be challenging. They shouldn't be cakewalks where nobody takes damage, but they also shouldn't put anyone in danger of dying. Instead of using the encounter budget for more PC's, try using the budget for 3 PCs of 2 levels higher. That'll give them more of a challenge without overwhelming them.

Another problem is that with only 3 players, where the game is designed for 5, the Warlord can give each player more healing (since he has the same number of healing powers). Try using high-damage monsters like Brutes, Lurkers and Artillery.

As for dealing with the Fighter, try attacks against Reflex or Will (which should be his lower defenses), immobilizing, or slowing him to keep him away from ranged attackers. Or, try a threatening melee monster that demands his attention, while a bunch of ranged minions attack from a safe location: you don't need to make them hard to get to, just make it take longer to get there (about 25-35 squares. A good way to do this is to put them on top of a wall at a gate, where the melee monster is, and then put a ladder, some loose stones that could be climbed, etc. about 18 squares away. It'll take around 3 turns of double-moves to engage them in melee.