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View Full Version : [3.5] Gathering Ideas on Factotum PrC



Human Paragon 3
2010-02-08, 01:16 PM
The idea is a prestige class that advances factotum inspiration, and spends that inspiration to create magic items on the fly. Sort of like a mad scientist/trouble shooter/artificer kind of thing. I want him to be more versatile than the artificer, and more spontaneous, but without the ability to create long-term gear for your entire party (which is what makes the artificer broken).

I am looking for ideas for class abilities and suggestions at what level those abilities should be granted to keep it balanced.

I am not very strong on the magic item creation rules or what balances them, so aid will be greatly appreciated.

I'd like the PrC to be enterable at level 6 with strait factotum, but I don't want Factotum to be necessary for the class.


Some ideas I already have:

Use Arcane Dilettante as spells known when creating items.

Bonus to Craft skill based on level

Temporarily adding enhancements to weapons by spending inspiration points, max enhancement based on Int.

Changing the spells stored in scrolls, wands, staves etc. by spending inspiration.

Minor Creation line of spells as Su: abilities

paddyfool
2010-02-08, 01:18 PM
This really belongs on the homebrew board...

Overshee
2010-02-08, 01:23 PM
The idea is a prestige class that advances factotum inspiration, and spends that inspiration to create magic items on the fly. Sort of like a mad scientist/trouble shooter/artificer kind of thing. I want him to be more versatile than the artificer, and more spontaneous, but without the ability to create long-term gear for your entire party (which is what makes the artificer broken).

I am looking for ideas for class abilities and suggestions at what level those abilities should be granted to keep it balanced.

I am not very strong on the magic item creation rules or what balances them, so aid will be greatly appreciated.

I'd like the PrC to be enterable at level 6 with strait factotum, but I don't want Factotum to be necessary for the class.


Some ideas I already have:

Use Arcane Dilettante as spells known when creating items.

Bonus to Craft skill based on level

Adding enhancements to weapons by spending inspiration points, max enhancement based on Int.

Changing the spells stored in scrolls, wands, staves etc. by spending inspiration.

Minor Creation line of spells as Su: abilities

I like this idea. Perhaps it could advance spells known too? Enhancements could be done via same mechanisms as artificer infusions, IDK how well short term magic items would work (seems a little OP considering you could whip yourself up an item PERFECTLY tailored to a particular fight (each fight every fight if it used inspiration) and never use that item again with no downsides...)

I'm imagining a mix between extreme versatility of chameleon and extreme improvisation of factotum and artificer.

Human Paragon 3
2010-02-08, 01:32 PM
Right, yeah. The balance is actions, and the fact that you can only make items that you qualify to make via your arcane dilettante class feature.

Lycanthromancer
2010-02-08, 01:36 PM
Have the PrC advance inspiration points (perhaps at a faster progression), and have it give the character a bunch of spells/spell-like abilities (much like arcane dilettante) that explicitly affect nonmagic items.

It shouldn't grant any standard factotum goodies (other than inspiration points), but give it vastly boosted casting (as was mentioned, do it much like infusions). It'd basically be the sublime chord, but for factotums. It stacks with a factotum's previous abilities (and might even progress arcane dilettante as well), but it has its own spell list to play with.

And make sure it has access to low-level castings of minor creation. Psionics gives it to shapers as early as level 1. Just make sure the objects created are solid and chemically inert. If you want poisons and acids (which I heartily suggest), make sure to make those into spells in their own right.

Overshee
2010-02-08, 02:11 PM
Have the PrC advance inspiration points (perhaps at a faster progression), and have it give the character a bunch of spells/spell-like abilities (much like arcane dilettante) that explicitly affect nonmagic items.

Only nonmagic items? Not terribly fond of this. If versatility and improv is what we're aiming at one should be able to affect whatever he has on hand. Maybe a surcharge for magic items? A cool effect would be to switch one enchant to another for a short period (so you could spend X inspiration and change a +1 enchant to a different +1 enchant). You could also add a new enchant (but it would cost more inspiration), or change damage "Oh no, he's immune to fire? I'll just change my fiery burst to icy burst!"


It shouldn't grant any standard factotum goodies (other than inspiration points), but give it vastly boosted casting (as was mentioned, do it much like infusions). It'd basically be the sublime chord, but for factotums. It stacks with a factotum's previous abilities (and might even progress arcane dilettante as well), but it has its own spell list to play with.

I think it should advance arcane dilettante and inspiration, leaving other class features (cunning line and opportunistic piety behind).


And make sure it has access to low-level castings of minor creation. Psionics gives it to shapers as early as level 1. Just make sure the objects created are solid and chemically inert. If you want poisons and acids (which I heartily suggest), make sure to make those into spells in their own right.

I like this idea (especially if you can then enchant that item with your "infusions," maybe even at a reduced cost).

Lycanthromancer
2010-02-08, 03:00 PM
Only nonmagic items? Not terribly fond of this. If versatility and improv is what we're aiming at one should be able to affect whatever he has on hand. Maybe a surcharge for magic items? A cool effect would be to switch one enchant to another for a short period (so you could spend X inspiration and change a +1 enchant to a different +1 enchant). You could also add a new enchant (but it would cost more inspiration), or change damage "Oh no, he's immune to fire? I'll just change my fiery burst to icy burst!"Perhaps enhancing nonmagic items works normally, but there's a nominal (nom nom nominal) XP cost for playing around with already magical items? That way you don't end up with a +10 weapon at level 10 (at least not without paying out the nose for it).


I think it should advance arcane dilettante and inspiration, leaving other class features (cunning line and opportunistic piety behind).Yup. That sounds good. That way it's not like the planar shepherd, in which there's no reason whatsoever not to take it.


I like this idea (especially if you can then enchant that item with your "infusions," maybe even at a reduced cost).Quite right. Though I'd make the casting of inspiration creation a move action, but solid plant material only, and have it last, say, 1 minute?

mint
2010-02-08, 03:08 PM
To improvise an item in game, in combat, doing it on the fly is a cool idea.
In game, in combat in particular, additional book-keeping might be frustrating? Perhaps simply adapting part of the artificer class would be an elegant solution?
For example, putting infusions on the arcane dilettante spell list and having them cost no gold.

Overshee
2010-02-08, 03:10 PM
Perhaps enhancing nonmagic items works normally, but there's a nominal (nom nom nominal) XP cost for playing around with already magical items? That way you don't end up with a +10 weapon at level 10 (at least not without paying out the nose for it).

I don't like the idea of paying XP for temporary buffs. 1) bookkeeping would be annoying, 2) I've always thought XP should only be for concrete character advancement (not counting uber powerful stuff like wish and gate). Perhaps you could only double your current weapon's bonus, and the inspiration cost is exponential (perhaps even making a +9 or +10 practically impossible).


Yup. That sounds good. That way it's not like the planar shepherd, in which there's no reason whatsoever not to take it.

That's what I was going for


Quite right. Though I'd make the casting of inspiration creation a move action, but solid plant material only, and have it last, say, 1 minute?

Honestly I don't remember the rules for minor creation as to what you can/can't create. However, I'd have it be able to make metal weapons, tools, etc (maybe you can spend extra inspiration to make special materials? Plant material is +0, metal is +2, special material is +x/y, where X would be the gold cost for the material of the item in question). Also, I'd have them last until the end of the encounter.

Overshee
2010-02-08, 03:13 PM
To improvise an item in game, in combat, doing it on the fly is a cool idea.
In game, in combat in particular, additional book-keeping might be frustrating? Perhaps simply adapting part of the artificer class would be an elegant solution?
For example, putting infusions on the arcane dilettante spell list and having them cost no gold.

Infusions take 1 minute to cast. I want these to be instant (I also like the inspiration-based cost [it reminds me of powerpoints, which I like way more than spell slots, and fits in better with the versatility aspect]).

I would actually be OK with a reasonable gold cost, (or maybe you use loot you've gathered "sacrificing it" to power your infusions).

Lycanthromancer
2010-02-08, 03:29 PM
What if you gave a good boost to arcane dilettante, then sacrificed spell slots (and an inspiration point) to channel the energy into an object??

Say you had fireball memorized. You could sacrifice it to get the flaming property on a weapon, fire resistance on armor, or to set a fireball trap on an object you touch?

Overshee
2010-02-08, 03:38 PM
What if you gave a good boost to arcane dilettante, then sacrificed spell slots (and an inspiration point) to channel the energy into an object??

Say you had fireball memorized. You could sacrifice it to get the flaming property on a weapon, fire resistance on armor, or to set a fireball trap on an object you touch?

I really like the idea, but I don't quite know if I like the limitations (I kinda wanted this to be based on per-encounter [how inspiration points are refreshed] vs. per-day [how arcane dilettante is refreshed]).

Also, while I like the flavor of fireball -> flaming property, I think I'd rather do 1st level spell slot -> +1 enchant, 2nd -> +2, etc.

Overshee
2010-02-08, 06:52 PM
(iPhone so super hard to edit...)

As for name, I was thinking somehow MacGyver related? Agent? Rigger?

Lycanthromancer
2010-02-08, 07:27 PM
Well, it's the OP's class, so maybe we should let him make some judgment calls on how we're doing so far, including the name.

As far as my suggestion? The Jury-Rigger.

Overshee
2010-02-08, 08:21 PM
Dear OP: Would you mind if I/we posted this in the homebrew thread?

Draz74
2010-02-08, 09:22 PM
Dear OP: Would you mind if I/we posted this in the homebrew thread?

It's already there. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=141294)

Human Paragon 3
2010-02-09, 12:03 AM
OP here.


Thanks for all the imput and interest so far guys! I had a feeling the idea would have legs. To address what's been said above, I don't want any XP or gold costs involved in the quick crafting. You are spending inspiration points for a temporary bonus, not unlike the cunning line from the factotum class.

I want a new progression for Arcane Dillatante, kind of like Ur Priest. Which is to say, you'll start back over at level 1 spells when you switch over to the PrC, but then rapidly gain more arcane power. Of course, you'll still be behind a Wizard in spell power, it's not like you get early access to level 9s. But I am working on a new progression for the arcane dillitante spells, making this class more magically inclined than Factotum.

What level spells do you think would be necessary to make the class useful? and at what levels? How high level should you have to be in order to make a +5 equivilant weapon? or a +10?

What would the effect be of allowing the PrC to make any wonderous item he meets the prereqs for at will?

EDIT: I decided that we should continue posting on the Homebrew board. All future posts will appear there.

Overshee
2010-02-09, 12:20 AM
I'm literally about to go to bed so I'm gonna make this brief but I thought I'd mention a few things.


OP here.

Thanks for all the imput and interest so far guys! I had a feeling the idea would have legs. To address what's been said above, I don't want any XP or gold costs involved in the quick crafting. You are spending inspiration points for a temporary bonus, not unlike the cunning line from the factotum class.

I stole another persons idea to make this a hybrid class with artificer. The idea is that artificer has a craft reserve and retain essence to get lots of XP that can be used only for crafting (also see obligatory xp is a river post (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19872242/Experience_is_a_River)). This would allow the character to disenchant magic items and use them to fuel his own custom items. I thought it works well with flavor and eliminates how a potentially unbalanced 'freeness'.


I want a new progression for Arcane Dillatante, kind of like Ur Priest. Which is to say, you'll start back over at level 1 spells when you switch over to the PrC, but then rapidly gain more arcane power. Of course, you'll still be behind a Wizard in spell power, it's not like you get early access to level 9s. But I am working on a new progression for the arcane dillitante spells, making this class more magically inclined than Factotum.

Why? Arcane Dilettante is fairly balanced, IMO, and it's a great class feature. Maybe we could speed it up, but I don't think it should start over on a new scale (or if it does you combine factotum levels with the PrC for max known or whatever).


What level spells do you think would be necessary to make the class useful? and at what levels? How high level should you have to be in order to make a +5 equivilant weapon? or a +10?

What would the effect be of allowing the PrC to make any wonderous item he meets the prereqs for at will?

I'm probably not the right person to ask on this, but I don't think the class should get 9th level spells. It should not be a full casting class. I'd also put temporary item crafting bonus capped at +5. I believe after that items are classified as epic or some nomenclature like that and they shouldn't be emulated on the fly (another reason for including artificer in hybrid, PrC levels would go towards max crafting and stuff).

As for wondrous items, if he has the spell prereq prepared for that day, he probably would be better off using the spell instead of making the item. A UMD check or some other feature would probably work better.


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P.S. people were right in saying this should be in the homebrew thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=141294). We should move discussion there.